Thursday, November 10th, 2011 at 9:00 am  |  147 responses

NBA Labor Talks to Resume on Thursday


by Marcel Mutoni @marcel_mutoni

The latest round of NBA labor talks lasted over 12 hours, as David Stern’s doomsday deadline was brushed aside, and some progress was said to have been made.

Now, what “progress” truly means when it comes to this lockout, is anyone’s guess.

Though both sides remained stoic and largely non-committal about the talks (despite some funny technical issues), according to the reporters staked out at the hotel where these talks took place, the fact that the players’ union and owners will meet again today is an encouraging sign.

From the NY Times:

The talks ended around 1 a.m. Thursday and will resume at noon. “The fact that we don’t have a deal obviously let’s you know that there’s still a lot of work to be done on the system,” said Derek Fisher, the players union president. “We’re going to meet again tomorrow to give it our best effort, but we’re not sure if that will be enough.”In theory, the players were working against an ultimatum: to accept the N.B.A.’s most recent proposal by 5 p.m. Wednesday, or have it replaced by a significantly worse offer. But once talks resumed, the parties effectively “stopped the clock,” Commissioner David Stern said.

Failure to reach a deal in the next day or so could still trigger the N.B.A.’s “reset” proposal, which would threaten the rest of the season. But as long as talks continue, there is hope on both sides that a deal can be struck, and the four-month lockout resolved. “I would not read into this optimism or pessimism,” Stern said. “We just continue to negotiate as we continue to negotiate.” He added, “We’re not failing, and we’re not succeeding.”

Though the level of optimism about the lockout (now 133 days old) ending soon has been slightly raised, there remains quite a bit to work on the system issues to iron out between players and owners.

We’ll know more about what progress — if any — was made following today’s round of talks.

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  • http://slamonline Brion

    So the other day me and my friend were watching “hardwood classics” 1993 Sonics vs. Jazz and a debate ensued over who was a better pt. guard, Payton or Stockton ? Any opinions/ reasons ?

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    ^Payton overall. Defense comibined with ball IQ and tenacity. ^^What up nerve, the guys have missed you dude. We barely get along with out you on here.

  • http://slamonline.com the nerve

    waddup lakeshow man! i c yall muthagrabbers up here talkin that shtt. ayo where that lyin ass nicka jukai.? ayo jukai u still aint admit that u wuz lyin to my nucka CRAAAAWWWWFID bout me. phaggit

  • http://nbasobrietystrike.blogspot.com/ CoolWhip

    Stockton. Longevity counts in this discussion. Also, Stock had ice water in his veins and was never afraid to take and make huge shots. Once Payton’s athleticism left him he was a shade of his former self. Go compare their stats, you’ll be shocked at Stock’s shooting % and APG

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Stockton by a sizable margin.

  • http://www.slamonline.com the nerve

    You’re quite stupid

  • http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7207951/ncb-derrick-rose-kyrie-irving-37-other-players-nba-one-year-rule-espn-magazine Allenp

    That is a good discussion.
    My personal choice would be Stockton, but I wouldn’t be mad at people who picked Payton.
    I take Stockton because while he never scored at the same level as Payton, I believe that if he wanted to, he could have. Conversely, Payton was never the passer that Stockton was, and I’m not sure he could have been. Payton gets the nod on defense, but Stockton was no slouch. I just pick Stockton because his style of play appealed to me, and I believe he was an easier blend with any type of talent.
    I’m also not convinced that if I put Payton and Stockton on a team full of scrubs, Payton would have the better team in the end. I think Stockton would have elevated talent easier, while Payton would have been more comfortable taking the scoring load.

  • bull22

    i do remember eddie saying the lakers would be upset by the mavs. but after the heat beat the bulls, he did make SHODDY prediction that the mavs would not win the finals like all of us did… i will give him his props when he deserves it but the IlluminatI blew that prediction.

  • http://wikipedia.org Eddie1

    @bull22 Thank you bull. Again the timeline of each future is constantly shifting due to the unfavorable interactions between D-fish and the owners. My ability to clearly transmit future info is therefore hindered. By the way, Bulls are killing the Pacers. Forever yours, Eddie of 1996.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    A lot of people hold it against Stock for never winning a ring but they forget that GP never won a ring with one of the most talented team in the 90s. Matter of fact, a 63win and 57win SEA team lost in the first round back to back with GP at the helm. So let’s not act like GP has an advantage over Stock when it comes to winning based on his ring with the Heat.

  • http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7207951/ncb-derrick-rose-kyrie-irving-37-other-players-nba-one-year-rule-espn-magazine Allenp

    I don’t think anybody made the winning argument. Just the longevity argument, which i took to be about his individual play over an extended period of time.

  • http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wizards/a-quick-guide-to-the-issues-of-the-nba-lockout/2011/10/11/gIQAon1ZbL_story.html unf*ckwitable

    JTaylor stop talking about MMA, its blatantly obvious you know sfa about it. You dont have to like it but dont get into arguments about it cause u might know bout boxing but u got no idea about mma and you just look like an idiot sayin that sh*t. Fake ass sport, GTFOH.

  • http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wizards/a-quick-guide-to-the-issues-of-the-nba-lockout/2011/10/11/gIQAon1ZbL_story.html unf*ckwitable

    I should of just said cosign Lakeshow at 2.43pm.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Just in case.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    John Stockton was better over an extended period of time than Payton. They both came in at 22, Payton retired at 38, Stockton at 40. Both weren’t great from the jump, Stockton’s decline in terms of productivity only declined with playing time. Per Minute he was basically the same guy his whole career, while Payton became noticeably less effective.

  • http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7207951/ncb-derrick-rose-kyrie-irving-37-other-players-nba-one-year-rule-espn-magazine Allenp

    ^But he was more effective in his prime, arguably.
    And, Stockton’s minutes declined because he was old. Lol.

  • http://wikipedia.org Eddie1

    Gary Payton was beasting. I used to watch them joints with my family. The good old days. Forever yours, Eddie, seattle supersonics fan for life. SONICS NBA 2030 Champs. You heard it from Eddie first.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    If there are people out there willing to shell out 60+ dollars for what is basically a glorified street-fight, who am I to argue.

  • http://slamonline Brion

    My arguement was that without Malone, Stockon wouldnt of had so many assists ( all time leader ?) not sure Payton was denied rings by #23. Now i cant remember if Jazz ever saw Jordon in finals? I should Google

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    They declined to 29 minutes. He was still scoring 10+ with 7+ assists. Payton basically became a sporadic option, Stockton was always the playmaker when he was on the court. But yeah in their prime I’d prolly take Payton. Just not for their career.

  • Marco

    are you serious brion?

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    It isn’t a streetlight JTaylor, do you een know the rules of MMA? Do you realize that Log Term boxing is considerably more unhealthy for a fighter then MMA? The idea that there is more strategy in boxing then MMA is absurd. The sport has been around longer, there should be more too the fundamentals. Your only performing related skills, so the minute details make a big difference. When in MMA you HAVE to be well rounded at every kind of defense or anyone can beat you. A lucky knee or elbow is just as likely as a lucky punch. There is a reason some guys barely ever lose in either sport, it takes an incredibly high amount of skill, athleticism, and intelligence (in the ring/octagon) to win. The ones who are glorified street fighters are the guys at your local rage in the cage, you can say all of what you were saying about some of those guys. Guys in the UFC though, they deserve just as much credit as any comparable (career experience wise) Boxer.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    I would take Stock in his prime over GP. Stock was the better passer by a mile, superior shooter from 3, mid-range and, better thief and FT line and more durable. GP’s better rebounder, better defender (Stock was a good defender). I’m leaning towards Stock because the gap between GP’s defensive ability and Stock’s is nullified by the huge gap between Stock’s ability to run the point and Payton’s.

  • http://slamonline Brion

    I couldnt remember if Jazz played Bulls in finals, now its all coming back, Bulls blew them out so bad there wasnt anything rememorable. (If thats what your asking if im serious about Marco?)

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    nbk, I know it takes hard-work and dedication to become an MMA/UFC fighter, I was just trying to rile up MMA fans. I’m also angry that Boxing is on a steep decline while MMA is on the rise.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    The Bulls Jazz (2 finals) have their memorable moments just like all the others. And Stockton’s all-time assists and steals records are about as untouchable as Joe DiMaggio’s 56 straight hits, Brett Favres straight starts record, Wilt’s 100 point game that you not knowing either of the two Brion tells everything about your knowledge on the subject your discussing.

  • Maniac

    I couldn’t help but to LMAO @ Brion

  • http://slamonline Brion

    I feel you on that^, while i have nothing against UFC, im still a bigger fan of boxing, I grew up on Tyson in his prime. Those were fun to watch.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    I feel you JT, I personally would rather watch UFC but only because I don’t understand the nuances, or have the attention Span to watch and learn boxing not because I think one is more legitimate then the other.

  • http://slamonline Brion

    Wasnt saying i was an expert buddy, im admitting i cant remember thats all. But I realize there are some purists on this site that take this stuff pretty seriously. Glad I could make you laugh maniac.

  • http://slamonline Brion

    Also, dont get me wrong Im a huge fan of Stockton, Its just my opinion that he may of not had that many assists without Malone, who had to be about at least half of his assists.

  • Maniac

    Interesting debate. I’ll chime in. Everyone has pretty much summed it up. Overall, Stockton is probably the better player.
    @JTaylor I wouldn’t say Stockton was the “better” theif. That depends. One-on-one defending, Payton gets the nod, Stock played the passing lanes more (I guess that means he was a better theif).
    It comes down to this: I’ve seen arguments for Stockton being the greatest PG (yes, very flawed argument), but never seen the same for Payton. How many top 5 pg lists are you going to see that does NOT include Stock? Very very little. Ask the same about Glove. Totally different answer. Payton wins on defense (not by a whole bunch) and scoring (again not by a whole bunch), but Stock contributed and achieved more. Hard to say who was really better player in their prime.

  • Marco

    yes brion, but I didn’t mean it in an accusatory tone, it’s just seemed a bit odd

  • Maniac

    Brion: when it comes to memorization, certain things in life (and basketball or whatever…) are like riding a bike. That’s all I’m going to say lol. I do agree on the assist total though. Stock and Malone both helped each other on their respective scoring and assists records. Their longevity is a major fact too; that can’t be forgotten.

  • http://slamonline Brion

    Now you guys are making me feel bad for not remembering those exciting Bulls/Jazz finals. I smoked away alot of my longterm.

  • Heals

    Nick – I hear ya. I think it has to do with familiarity and those who comment the most. They set the tone and newcomers are smart enough to pick it up and fall in-line. Biases aren’t/can’t be hidden behind here cause folks know eachothers’ angles. One day 2 commentors are at odds, the next they have something to agree (unless it’s Kob v. LBJ) about. And most importantly there’s always someone to put you in check when you just typing out nonsense. Lastly we’re talking hoops, music, kicks and life; we can’t screw that up no matter how hard we try..

  • http://slamonline Brion

    The push off on Byron Russell! Duh now its coming back

  • http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wizards/a-quick-guide-to-the-issues-of-the-nba-lockout/2011/10/11/gIQAon1ZbL_story.html unf*ckwitable

    I watched Holyfield v Bowe 1 and 2 the other night on ESPN classics. Two of the best fights(mma included) ive seen for a while. Also JT, i think boxing shot itself in the foot. The market was wide open for something like the UFC to come in and take over. Still boxing will always remain as a sport.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    97 had “The Flu Game”

  • http://www.slamonline.com J

    @ Lake.. nbk.. Juks..
    man finally i can talk to some guys about MMA here! Leben didnt quit. Munoz is just better. But not enough for a shot on Andy. I’m with Cain on saturday. Who you got on shogun/hendo?
    @ Jtaylor..
    I’ll advice you to give UFC/MMA a deeper look dude. you’ll love it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/#!/joe.l.brewer3 BlackPhantom

    @Jtaylor usually when people call MMA “Streetfighting” it means they don’t know much about it.
    @J I got Cain as well, and I think I might go with Shogun over Hendo

  • http://www.slamonline.com J

    @Lake..
    JDS cardio is not much of a suspect to me, but that area should hugely in favor of Cain. That is where he has a great advantage come championship rounds. JDS would definitely look for an early finish (both of them actually) but Cain would be more willing to grind, be patient and pick his spots. Also if Cain could neutralize JDS’s BJJ, Dos Santos is in trouble. I won’t be surprised on a JDS win though, I won’t consider it an upset if he does.

  • http://www.slamonline.com J

    @BlackPhantom.
    Hendo is great on feet and the ground. He has that world famous chin and right hand. But a key for a Shogun victory would be closing the distance and using his muay thai clinch to somehow weather Hendo’s striking. Hendo can be submitted but it’ll be hard. He’s such a very well rounded fighter. Another key for Shogun is that leg kick. (see Machida 1 fight) That could make Hendo think twice of landing a counter.

  • http://ggfhh.com Jukai

    Real question:, who would win in an mma fight, stockton or payton?

  • http://www.facebook.com/#!/joe.l.brewer3 BlackPhantom

    @J I agree 100% with that, be quite honest with you I could see it go either way when it comes to Shogun/Hendo, They’re oth equally dangerous which makes me even more excited about that fight. you watch boxing as well?

  • http://www.facebook.com/#!/joe.l.brewer3 BlackPhantom

    @Jukai LMAO uhh….I think Payton

  • http://ggfhh.com Jukai

    Hendo vs Shogun is ending in a ko. I don’t know who, but it will be a ko.
    JTaylor, did you cry when Couture manhandled James Toney?

  • http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wizards/a-quick-guide-to-the-issues-of-the-nba-lockout/2011/10/11/gIQAon1ZbL_story.html unf*ckwitable

    Im taking Shogun and Cain as well, will be good fights both.

  • http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wizards/a-quick-guide-to-the-issues-of-the-nba-lockout/2011/10/11/gIQAon1ZbL_story.html unf*ckwitable

    Payton FTW. First round KO by trashtalk.

  • http://www.slamonline.com J

    @ BlackPhantom
    after Pac/Money? not much.. I’m in love with MMA. C’mon man. Andy, GSP, Bones.. What’s not to like. If Manny/Floyd met in the ring who is to watch after that? I don’t hate boxing. That’s a GREAT sport but boxing needs another savior(s). BTW rip smokin joe.

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