Friday, November 11th, 2011 at 4:45 pm  |  58 responses

New Hall of Fame Nominees: Tim Hardaway, Mitch Richmond, Vlade Divac, Dick Bavetta

The Basketball Hall of Fame has nominated five more names for induction into so-called immortality, and as always, some of the names on the list will raise a few eyebrows. From the Palm Beach Post: “[Tim Hardaway] is one of five new nominees with NBA ties, along with former Warriors teammate Mitch Richmond, former Bulls executive Jerry Krause and former international and NBA center Vlade Divac. The class also includes many carryovers from previous years, including former Pacers guard Reggie Miller, who didn’t earn induction in his first year of eligibility, and former Sixers point guard Maurice Cheeks, who was a Finalist in 2011; plus prominent collegiate and NBA coaches such as Rick Pitino, Bill Fitch and Rudy Tomjanovich. Also on the list: official Dick Bavetta … The winners will be announced at the Final Four in New Orleans.”

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  • EtheKnickFan

    why would Reggie Miller make hall of fame?

  • http://nba.com GP23

    ^probably because you could argue he was the 3rd best shooting guard of all time…

  • coggie13

    Any time you hold a record when a league has been around for over 50 years you are definately HOF (This is why Ray Allen will make it, since surpassing him.)This does not include records like worst free throw percentage etc. I know what you punks are like! Reggie was a freak.

  • manu

    AI’s the 3rd best sg ever not reggie lmao.. reggie didn’t even get 20 a game career AI’s 27 n 6 assists man

  • MikeC.

    Reggie is the 3rd best SG of all time? Really? I can name several off guards that are better than Reggie and are still playing, never mind of all time. If you do the all-time list, it wouldn’t be hard to argue that Reggie isn’t even top-10 all time.

  • http://slamonline.com Ugh

    Let’s make a list! C;mon!

  • S_kemp

    Rudy T better get in.Class act. Vlade? really? great player in his prime but not a HOFer.

  • Justin

    Reggie Miller third best SG of all time? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! And Vlade was never great. You call him great and you lower the bar about 15 notches

  • http://thahiphopcorner.com/forums Kevin

    Maurice Cheeks, Rudy T, Mitch Richmond, Reggie Miller, and Dick Bavetta should be this year’s inductees. BTW just my opinion but Mitch Richmond was better than Reggie Miller….*runs*

  • http://nba.com GP23

    To all you morons above… I never said HE WAS the 3rd best shooting guard of all time, I just said you could ARGUE it!! Obviously the top 2 are Mike and Kobe, but after them, there are a whole lot of SG’s to pick from as 3rd best. Next time, read what peeople write OK !! Damn !!

  • http://sportsnickel.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/silvastpierre.jpg Jukai

    Reggie Miller deserves to be in the HOF on his success in the playoffs, his longevity, and all the iconic moments he brought to the NBA.
    But in terms of pure skill, Reggie Miller was relatively lacking to be considered a legend.
    I don’t know how you can argue Reggie Miller was better than Jerry West, Dwyane Wade, Allen Iverson, Clyde Drexler and George Gervin. I really don’t see any argument. All of those guys were better scorers, all of them but Gervin were better passers, all of them but Iverson were better rebounders…. and Miller was only a decent defender, that sure as hell doesn’t make up for it… Hell, outside of Gervin, he hasn’t even made it farther in the playoffs.
    There is an argument that Reggie Miller is better than Ray Allen. And it’s not a very good argument at that.

  • http://slamonline.com Ben Osborne

    What about MarkJax?

  • http://myspace.com/gametimeweezy Gametimeweezy

    Mitch Richmond was my favorite player growing up straight up Rock Richmond was the man. He was a better player than Reggie just played on garbo teams.

  • MikeC.

    Okay GP23, argue your point. I’m all ears/eyes.

  • Justin

    Yeah, I can’t wait to hear this too. Yes GP, you said “it could be argued”. The fact is, no it can’t

  • http://www.slamonline.com house

    Latrell Sprewell anyone?

  • http://www.facebook.com/#!/joe.l.brewer3 BlackPhantom

    Reggie should be in the Hall of Fame, but I don’t think he should considered a Top 3 SG of all time, Top 10?, probably. I think I’d put Clyde orAllen Iverson as the number SG of all-time

  • http://www.slamonline.com Slick Ric

    Co-sign Jukai, Reggie made his mark on the league with legendary moments and performances. He Was a one dimensional player for the most part, but that does not mean he was not great.

  • Zabbah

    Allan Houston in his prime was better Reggie Miller in his prime.

  • Justin

    I don’t know about that. And Slick Ric, Reggie was not great. He had great games, he had great moments, but to call him a great player is an insult to those that actually are/were great.

  • Ryan

    Reggie Miller is a two dimensional player (nice shot and a big mouth) who earned a big rep mostly by yapping and playing at a time when there weren’t a lot of charismatic guys out there. There are dozens of shooting guards who’re much better than he was Mitch Richmond is an obvious example and a telling one. Mitch Richmond didn’t run his mouth and didn’t play for the best teams but he could play the whole game. Ray Allen is another comparison that Reggie loses very badly, Allen is a nice guy but if I were in his shoes I would have killed the comparisons long ago they’re just not realistic. Reggie reminds me of Mark Jackson in a lot of ways because neither one of them had a complete skill set or real leadership ability now if you put those two together into one person you’d have someone as good as Allan Houston and if that player had a long career you’d have to consider them for the hall of fame.

  • Ryan

    Vlade Divac deserves to get in based on his international resume and his solid NBA work. I’ve got a lot of love for Tim Hardaway and Maurice Cheeks too but I don’t know if they should make it or not.

  • http://nba.com GP23

    Reggie Miller is a first ballot Finalist, he was his best not just against the Knicks, Bulls, Lakers and plenty of good teams. I remember his Pacer team being the best team to almost spoil the Bulls run one year. Reggie was the star of the Pacers for a long time, the greatest Pacer ever. He took a very troubled franchise and ended up in the Eastern Conference finals six times, that’s pretty impressive for a guy who weighs about 185 pounds, and in the years that he did it, he was a marked guy and he relished it. If there was no Shaq in 2000, the pacers could have won that championship. I f there was no Jordan in 98, the pacers could have beaten the Jazz (unlikely I know) and won it all then aswell. Reggie was very close to having 2 rings.
    I believe there are several other things to consider about Reggie’s career numbers:

    1. Free Throws – #9 all-time in % and #12 in FT made (no one in the top 30 of FT made has a better percentage). Iced game regardless of the situation.
    2. Clutch Ability – There’s 1 second left. It’s your ball out of bounds, and you’re down by 3. There is no player in the history of the game you’d rather have on your team at that scenario.
    3. The defense claim: He is 39 steals from the top 30 all-time. Half a season at his pace. He was never a defensive liability.
    4. #14 in total points. Compare that to Home Runs. Without steroid-era players, it’s the equivalent of Ted Williams or Ernie Banks.
    5. His assist numbers are lower because of the offense he played in. His job was to run his defender into the ground, through double screens, catch, and shoot. The only reason for an assist pass was if the low post defender cheated, in which case the point guard usually makes an entry pass to the post. It’s an assist caused by Reggie. Check out Mark Jackson’s numbers.
    6. A career dealing with Smits’ bad feet, O’Neal’s fragility, management’s poor decision making with their enforcer big men (Brad Miller and Antonio Davis) and Ron Artest’s difficult battle with mental illness.

    My final point: Go back and watch games from his final season. The brawl season. A season that should have been lost. He’s 39 with gimpy O’Neal/Tinsley. And he still beats the Celts, and only loses to the Pistons cause Prince has a 7’3″ wingspan.

    So he hangs it up in the city that loves him, and doesn’t go ring-chasing and number-piling when he clearly still could (and had offers to do so). That’s a Hall of Famer.
    All that could establish him as “the 3rd best shooting guard of all time”
    Argument over.

  • EtheKnickFan

    Wheewwww didnt think my question would start this type of feed. How bout this I believe Cheryl was the waaaaay better Miller player in that household.

  • EtheKnickFan

    Uhhhhhh GP23 as for #2. Clutch Ability – There’s 1 second left. It’s your ball out of bounds, and you’re down by 3. There is no player in the history of the game you’d rather have on your team at that scenario.—- Really? You’d take Reggie over Larry Bird, MJ, Jerry West(some call him logo I called him mr clutch)? Maaaaan I’da took maybe even chris mullin. Besides Reggies BBall IQ was subprime at best. Ray Allen is a waaaaaaay better SG. Reggie scored all those threes cause his lite ass wouldnt dare come into the lane. Cheryl Miller Cheryl Miller Cheryl Miller Cheryl Miller Cheryl Miller Cheryl Miller Cheryl Miller

  • EtheKnickFan

    Vlade —- HOF flopper. Noone did it better.

  • EtheKnickFan

    Heck Cheryl was the better college player too WHAT!

  • EtheKnickFan

    Im diehard blue/orange but I don’t quite think Allan H was better than Reggie. That might be goin alittle too far. Or maybe AH was just NEVER worth that damned contract. I know, I know venting right? I digress, lets get back to the future.

  • Justin

    Saying if there was no Shaq in 2000 or no Jordan in ’98 is just stupid. If there was no Jordan then maybe Magic gets one more right, as well as Clyde, Barkely, Ewing, Stockton and Malone get their rings too. You don’t deal in what ifs. You deal in what happened. Your little scenario in number 2 is not what voters consider, and I might make an argument for Jordan or Allen in that scenario anyway. Miller’s total points and total assists could be attributed to longevity more than anything else. What it would boil down to is what did he AVERAGE over his career? I don’t have those numbers right now but I’m guessing they aren’t exactly staggering. A career dealing with Smits’ bad feet? Really? They don’t look at rosters and see what happened to their teammates. Bottom line, more often than not you’re looked at for what you did as an individual and what he’s done is not Hall of Fame material.

  • EtheKnickFan

    What Justin said! That and it took that fool too long to fix his damn teeth.H He even sucked as a commentator. Now what they should do is put Tim in alongside “Knick” Bavetta and make them do speech together. That would be HOF material. Hilarious. Remember when Heat lost to Knicks? Tim was hoooottt.

  • EtheKnickFan

    Also the term “greatest ever” should be reserved for when the league folds. Right now there could be some fetus developing that will do better than MJ,Kobe,etc. Who knows what happens 10 years from now? Term should be “greatest so far” or top 50 players so far.

  • Justin

    Greatest ever is the same as greatest so far. Short for “greatest who has EVER played the game”. Ever by definition deals with history not future. ;-) And why did you have to remind me about Reggie as a commentator? Best thing about this lockout is not having to hear him announce yet

  • MikeC.

    I can get with Reggie in the HOF. He had some big moments. The flip side of that is: would his moments be so big if they had come against Milwaukee instead of at MSG? Reggie’s rep is slightly overblown. He scared me in the clutch, but he didn’t create for himself. If he couldn’t get that 3 off, he was out of the play. The Pacers never won it all because their O was too predictable. Also Jordan.

  • http://slamonline BossTerry

    In the 1990s, Of course Jordan was the best sg. But after him, we got Drexler,Richmond,Miller (not necessary in that order) Unless I’m completely over-looking someone? Sure, Dumars, Starks, Marjle,etc. were great, but not better than Miller..

  • http://tempdog1 Tempest

    I’m better than Reggie Miller

  • http://slamonline.com YKnoT

    Tim Hardaway thinks this argument over Reggie HOF status is gay!

  • MikeC.

    ^Tim is very uncomfortable having this conversation in his locker room. He’s okay with it in general, but just doesn’t want it in his locker room.

  • L

    Vlade is in the hall of flops fo sure!L

  • MikeC.

    Vlade is a hall of famer. International play counts too. I can see Reg getting in based on his Olympic and World Championship gold medals.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    co-sign gp23 two times (tho not on his being the third best shooting guard). Pretty much summed everything up.
    Is Reggie’s HOF status really this controversial? it’s a no-brainer to me.

  • http://bedotwater.bandcamp.com The Black Skip Bayless

    Reggie Miller is the best player to ever lace them up. lol

  • MikeC.

    @Teddy- in my opinion Reg’s NBA career is debatable for HOF, but he should get in based on his international work.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    No intelligent person believes Reggie was better than Iverson or Drexler. Reggie doesn’t even believe that. Just back down the homie.


    I never saw Timmy as HOF material. Is that just me?
    Anyway, if Timmy is, then mos def Reggie should be in, who I think should have gone in last year.

  • Ryan

    Joe Dumars was definitely better than Reggie Miller, MUCH better. And third best shooting guard of all time??? GTFOH!!! Jerry West, Oscar Robertson, Mitch Richmond, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Clyde Drexler, Joe Dumars, Latrell Sprewell, James Harden, Ray Allen, Hershey Hawkins, Jeff Hornacek, George Gervin, Dwyane Wade, Allen Iverson… Reggie isn’t better than any of those cats. He’s as good as some of them but he’s not better than any of them so how is anyone going to say he’s number three all time. You don’t get to be an all time great by being unable to defend, rebound, pass or handle the ball otherwise my ass would be one of the best point guards of all time based on my height and my inability to do any of those things at a high level. Reggie Miller will probably eventually make the hall of fame and when he does it’ll cheapen the term hall of famer.

  • Ryan

    “It’s like chicken-fighting with a woman. His game is all this flopping-type thing. He weighs only 185 pounds, so you have to be careful, don’t touch him, or it’s a foul. On offense I use all my 215 pounds and just move him out. But he has his hands on you all the time, like a woman holding your waist. I just want to beat his hands off because it’s illegal. It irritates me.” -Michael Jordan

    That quote right there out to give you an idea what a sorry ass defender Reggie Miller was. He couldn’t move his feet, wasn’t strong and resorted to weak ass fouls.

  • http://bedotwater.bandcamp.com The Black Skip Bayless

    Ryan, how did James Harden get in your list already? He isnt better than Reggie yet. Neither is Kobe, Jordan, Bron, Wade… you get the idea.

  • http://myspace.com/gametimeweezy Gametimeweezy

    Mitch Richmond took it to the rack and had a better post-up game better scorer not just a SHOOTER

  • EtheKnickFan

    Spike Lee got Reggie in.

  • EtheKnickFan

    Tim? Maybe but he should only be allowed in if he lets John Ameche hold his hand during his speech.

  • EtheKnickFan

    Mitch? He’s in. No question. Dude balled, teams suuuuuuucccckkkkkkked.

  • MikeC.

    @E- yup!

  • Justin

    I think on this list Dick Bavetta might be the best candidate. And there we go arbitrarily throwing around the word “great” again. Dan Marjele, Joe Dumars, and ESPECIALLY John Starks were not great. Joe Dumars was far and away the best of those three and he was very very good. And as much as I don’t think Reggie deserves to get in he was better than Hersey Hawkins and Jeff Hornacek

  • Ryan

    James Harden’s beard qualifies him more than Reggie’s game. Ha, ha.

  • Robert

    Jerry West is one of the top three SGs of all-time. I don’t need to see why. I assume you know who he is, a player greater than AI and Reggie. Reggie should have been inducted the first time he was nominated.

  • Nick

    i do agree that reggie could make a case for HOF, but he is definitely not the 3rd best SG of all time =____= especially when you think of the top, you think of players like MJ, and clyde drexler etc. i would pick Kobe, wade and ray ray over reggie ANYDAY. and blade divac was just extremely average. yao ming should be a HOF-er before anyone even thinks of Vlade Divac

  • http://slamonline rt

    Reggie was a terrific ballplayer, but do we vote him in just because he was
    a good shooter? Ray Allen is head and shoulders above Reggie, no doubt about that!!

  • SactownKing

    Michael Jordan said himself in a sports center interview that Mitch Richmond is hands down the 2nd best SG. End of discussion.