Thursday, February 9th, 2012 at 10:30 am  |  147 responses

Derrick Rose Asked Isiah Thomas How to Win NBA Titles


by Marcel Mutoni / @marcel_mutoni

Derrick Rose, admittedly, was down in the dumps after the Miami Heat eliminated the Chicago Bulls from the Playoffs last year.

The reigning MVP blamed himself for his team’s flameout in the Eastern Conference Finals, and was in a desperate search for answers: how could he ever get the Bulls over the championship hump, especially given just how rarely point guards of his size carry their squads to the NBA’s promised land.

Rose turned to Isiah Thomas, someone who might be able to provide him with some answers. Derrick asked his fellow Chicago native – a man who went through his share of postseason heartbreak – how he managed to win titles.

From ESPN:

Isiah Thomas said he met Rose last year after a game in Detroit and that Rose contacted him after the Bulls’ season had ended. “He was pretty down,” Thomas said. “He asked me ‘How did you do it? How did you win back-to-back championships at this size?’ And my response to him was that once you understand your opponent and know your opponent better than you know yourself, you’ll win.” […] Rose understands Thomas’ historical standing in both Chicago basketball and the NBA. “… He’s somebody where in Chicago, you definitely got to look up to, especially being a guard, winning championships in this league,” Rose said. “[I] try to take things out of his game and put them into mine. But [he's] a cool dude. I played against his son in AAU. And he’s from Chicago so I got to look up to him.” “It’s hard to pattern your game after somebody that’s great like that,” Rose said. “If anything, he was a winner. His will to win, no matter how big he was on the floor, he was a small guy, but his passion for the game and how dedicated he was to playing the game.”

“He’s very courageous,” Thomas said of his fellow Chicago native. “You’ve got to be courageous and you’ve got to make sacrifices in terms of your body to have success as a small man in the NBA and to win championships. And I emphasize win championships, because you can pile up statistics and great numbers playing a non-aggressive style and have a great career. But if you want to win championships, you have to pay the price and Derrick is definitely paying the price.” […] Thomas said any talk of resting Rose in an effort to protect him from injury is foolish. “I have a West Side mentality, and that is you’re either fighting to get it or fighting to keep it,” he said. “But make no mistake about it, you are always in the fight. … You want to sit me down and coddle me?”

Media and fans today treat Isiah Thomas as a punchline, endlessly pointing out his shortcomings as an NBA executive and coach. But for players in the League, he represents a living legend, someone whose guidance is to be valued. And, of course, they’re right.

Derrick Rose should take Isiah Thomas’ advice, but one thing remains inescapable: Zeke had a considerably more complete Detroit Pistons team than Rose does now in Chicago when he won back-to-back championships in 1989 and 1990.

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  • shutup

    If you wanna argue the Kobe mentality fine his teammates arent good enough so any shot he decides to shoot would be better than any shot his team would shoot, or he tries to pass to them and they miss shots so he has to force it, whatever you want to say. hes avg 17 shots per game and 6 ft so lets say 20 shots per game is it that hard to say that 4 or 5 of those 20 are bad shots? or is rose that perfect in your mind?

  • http://bulls.com airs

    last comment, this is ridiculous.
    first off, he’s now my hero, so kill that noise.
    and your argument has regressed from “the shots he takes aren’t good shots” to “25% of his shots are bad” to “only some of his shots are ill-advised”.
    what is it.
    don’t try to turn this on me saying that i said he takes the correct shot all the time, cuz i never did.

  • http://bulls.com airs

    not*, that changes things

  • bull22

    @red i would love to know how these cats went from talking about rose and isiah thomas to talking about old cats who have nothing to do with this subject… thats why i can’t stand half these jokers who bring up their numbers and nonsense as if any player is standing in front of the terminal
    eagerly looking for our expertise, hahahahahahhaha.

  • shutup

    This is what i said “Lets be honest although many of them go in, the shots rose takes arent good shots, the one handed push shots from all around the lane,…” I was criticizing his shot selection but mainly the one handed push shots from around the lane, as well as ill-advised jumpshots, im saying at least 25% of his shots arent good shots, because if you agree at LEAST 1/4 of them are bad at least (hero stuff was directed at Slic ric, btw)

  • shutup

    at least you can see that he does take bad shots

  • patrick

    “Know your opponent better than you know yourself”? Lol, what kind of advice mumbo jumbo is that lol?

  • bull22

    no matter how much negative crap is spewed out on rose, one things certain.
    as one analyst put it he is the nba’s most accountable player…. what i respect about rose is even when its not his fault, he accepts the responsibility for when the team loses while the majority of his counterparts whine about the players they don’t have.

  • Big AL

    Every player takes bad shots from time to time (Wade, Kobe) but the problem is that boozer isnt pulling his weight and takes too many jumpshots. Rose blames himself for fizzling out in the playoffs but you gitta give him credit for giving it all he had. He started to show fatigue in the last months because he and Deng had to pick up the slack of Boozer not being aggressive scoring. I fully blame the bulls lost to MIA on Boozer and a little on Noah. They didnt take advantage of their matchups and Boozer plays such awful defense that Noah picks up fouls when he tries to help out when Boozers man gets good post position. Rose will win at least 1 championship butIm not sure if Boozer will still be on the team when it happens. Also Rose is racking up assist like crazy to be a “scoring PG” smh at you guys nit-picking

  • shutup

    where are you from bull22? first guess would be the Islands, then maybe England. the only time I ever heard anyone call a computer the terminal is in L4yer cake.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Derrick Rose shoots bad shots because he is the person the Bulls rely on to get a shot off at the end of the clock. Dude shoots 62% at the rim, & 45% from 3-9 feet. His Mid-Range game still needs work, but for the most part his floaters and shots inside the key are good shots. Even if you don’t like them.

  • ab40

    Rick Mahorn pushes women and Bill Laimbeer hurt players on the court on purpose. That’s bad people in my book.

  • bull22

    @shutup actually bruh was born in chicago and grew up in edgwater and logan square communities, i was around alot of cultures and thats why i can stomach alot of these dudes. no beef with you though, i just can’t stand some of these fake behind chicago fans who blast rose when he loses and kiss his arse when he wins or these same weird fans don’t know who to cheer for from one day to the next.

  • TRIMEGADON

    is isiah better than AI?

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Did Isiah win 2 titles in the “golden era” – that is all you really have to ask.

  • TRIMEGADON

    yes but still,is isiah a better basketball player than AI?

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Yes.

  • TRIMEGADON

    because of the 2 rings?

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    The 2 rings are basically what decides it yes. the 19, 9, 4 on 45% (and better man to man defense) compared to 26, 7, 4 on 42% (and crazy gambling selfish defense) are about even, you could argue for either. So you have to look at who was a better leader, and who had a bigger impact on winning.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    obviously this is my opinion (and many many others. AllenP probably has the best explanation of what made Isiah the best little man ever, if you get a chance, ask him about it) – I have no problem with you disagreeing. I don’t want to come off as my opinion is more important then yours or anyone else’s.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    No Isiah is better because he played better.
    He dominated as the main scoring option, then changed his game up to get other people involved, and balanced scoring with assisting better than Iverson ever did. But it’s damn close.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Not to mention he went head to head with some of the greatest players of his generation or any generation and played them tough and triumphed over them despite arguably having a less talented team. He was a great leader by example and by keeping others in line. Iverson for all his many gifts, was not the leader Isiah was, was not the winner Isiah was, and honestly did not have the overall “game” that Isiah had. To me.

  • TRIMEGADON

    so if it just comes down to the rings you know that basketball is a team game. and as far as leadership and impact on winning i think that we can both agree that lamb rod and jd sounds better than mat snow and mckie…

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    The best player on a basketball team has more of an impact on winning then the best player on any team in any other professional sport. Winning is paramount for great players in basketball. It’s why the best of the best always have rings. Nobody in the top 10 all-time is ringless. Iverson was great, absolutely great. But Isiah won in the toughest era in NBA history, against 3 of the top 7 players of all-time, during their prime. He was the unquestioned leader and best player on those teams. Iverson was selfish, the reason he got as far as he did with a team with Eric Snow, Aaron McKie, Dikembe Mutombo and all those other defensive stalwarts is because he was a great scoring talent. The rest of his game was subpar when you compare him to Thomas.

  • TRIMEGADON

    i cant disagree with what you say and all the points you make are correct but answer me this ; take isiah out and put ai on that team . would they still win those 2 not say even more than 2?

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    No I don’t think they win any – Iverson wouldn’t have meshed with those guys

  • Dan

    quite simple: win 4 games in each playoff round

  • TRIMEGADON

    i personally think that teams make those players who they are besides their pure talents. sixers exploited allens feeling for the basket because they simply didnt have anyone else.in my opinion if ai was to play in that era he would at least be a player at the same caliber as isiah thus rings wouldnt be a matter of judgement on who is a better player . i take allen p word though that this is indeed pretty damn close.

  • TRIMEGADON

    nice talking to you both though…good game bros!

  • TRIMEGADON

    speaking of game what you see tonight on that celtic laker?

  • TRIMEGADON

    speaking of game what you see on tonighs celtic laker thing?

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    You two man, thank you for not taking anything personally. That is a huge problem with these discussions normally

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    What you talkin bout regarding the game?

  • TRIMEGADON

    who wins it?

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Oh well Boston has won 5 straight, and LA is 3-9 on the road so….

  • TRIMEGADON

    stats dont always speak the truth my brother nbk!

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Lol ahh they don’t, but they do have a higher % of success then “gut feelings”. I think by about 40% (if you wanted the statistic on that. Haha Which may be wrong, I don’t exactly remember)

  • webstarr

    Stockton doesn’t get enough love around here.

  • TRIMEGADON

    dont matter..GO GUT FELLINGS!! eerr i mean GO PHILLY!!! peace.

  • shutup

    @bull i was getting more towards cultural background, I went to school with a bunch of people from Jamaica/ Antigua most of the time I would be playing FIFA or dominoes and when I read that comment it reminded me of it. As for the rest I believe Rose is guilty of shooting a little too much whether its due to an expiring shot clock or lack of team scoring ability a bad shot is a bad shot (taking a bad shot is different that having a penance for shooting bad shots btw) , I wish his team would be better for him, I wish the Bulls success but not before the Heat, (just sick of the Lebron hate) and both of those teams take a back seat to the Spurs in my heart and the only team I root against are the Lakers because I hate how Shaq was run out of town

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    ^^^^^Who Cares

  • shutup

    ^^^ you forgot your catch phrase. Your name is fitting though, Your comments always remind me of the stain left behind on a hookers inner thigh

  • Black

    D Rose is a beast, yes when he came in he was a score first pg. Now he is a pg that can score. Bulls are deep and his scoring numbers have dropped while his assist number have gone up quite a bit this season. If the bulls are completely healthy in the ECF, I have great confidence that they can beat the heat. Now meeting up with Durant in the finals will be a threat.

  • SouTh SiDer

    @shutup have you watched all the bulls games this year? Or are you basing everything off 1 or 2 games you caught?

  • http://www.leaguelineup.com/welcome.asp?url=pawtucketymca Gametimeweezy

    If winning rings is the biggest measure of greatness, then why is Stockton so high on the list then and Iverson not?? Oh right, it has more to do than just rings guys… that being said Isaiah was a winner. DRose is a smart man.

  • http://slamonline.com The Philosopher

    Okay, my brethren. Here it is;
    Kyrie Irving is Sam Cassell Jr.
    Derek Harper? How about Terry Porter?
    Maybe even Walt Frazier.

  • Justin G.

    Exactly what makes a person more of a “winner” than the next? Winning championships is not really a way to compare two people when talking about their basketball skills. Thomas’ Detroit teams were obviously far and away better than any team Iverson played on. Would Thomas have been able to get Iverson’s Sixers team to the Finals? Debatable. So many people taking shots at Rose for what he has or hasn’t been able to accomplish is ridiculous. He’s what…? 24 years old? In his fourth year? Magic is one of the few superstars that came into the league and started winning championships right away. Give him time people. He’s not even in his prime yet. @AllenP…Payton is not better than Nash. You’re better than that. :-)

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