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Thursday, February 9th, 2012 at 10:30 am  |  147 responses

Derrick Rose Asked Isiah Thomas How to Win NBA Titles


by Marcel Mutoni @marcel_mutoni

Derrick Rose, admittedly, was down in the dumps after the Miami Heat eliminated the Chicago Bulls from the Playoffs last year.

The reigning MVP blamed himself for his team’s flameout in the Eastern Conference Finals, and was in a desperate search for answers: how could he ever get the Bulls over the championship hump, especially given just how rarely point guards of his size carry their squads to the NBA’s promised land.

Rose turned to Isiah Thomas, someone who might be able to provide him with some answers. Derrick asked his fellow Chicago native – a man who went through his share of postseason heartbreak – how he managed to win titles.

From ESPN:

Isiah Thomas said he met Rose last year after a game in Detroit and that Rose contacted him after the Bulls’ season had ended. “He was pretty down,” Thomas said. “He asked me ‘How did you do it? How did you win back-to-back championships at this size?’ And my response to him was that once you understand your opponent and know your opponent better than you know yourself, you’ll win.” […] Rose understands Thomas’ historical standing in both Chicago basketball and the NBA. “… He’s somebody where in Chicago, you definitely got to look up to, especially being a guard, winning championships in this league,” Rose said. “[I] try to take things out of his game and put them into mine. But [he's] a cool dude. I played against his son in AAU. And he’s from Chicago so I got to look up to him.” “It’s hard to pattern your game after somebody that’s great like that,” Rose said. “If anything, he was a winner. His will to win, no matter how big he was on the floor, he was a small guy, but his passion for the game and how dedicated he was to playing the game.”

“He’s very courageous,” Thomas said of his fellow Chicago native. “You’ve got to be courageous and you’ve got to make sacrifices in terms of your body to have success as a small man in the NBA and to win championships. And I emphasize win championships, because you can pile up statistics and great numbers playing a non-aggressive style and have a great career. But if you want to win championships, you have to pay the price and Derrick is definitely paying the price.” […] Thomas said any talk of resting Rose in an effort to protect him from injury is foolish. “I have a West Side mentality, and that is you’re either fighting to get it or fighting to keep it,” he said. “But make no mistake about it, you are always in the fight. … You want to sit me down and coddle me?”

Media and fans today treat Isiah Thomas as a punchline, endlessly pointing out his shortcomings as an NBA executive and coach. But for players in the League, he represents a living legend, someone whose guidance is to be valued. And, of course, they’re right.

Derrick Rose should take Isiah Thomas’ advice, but one thing remains inescapable: Zeke had a considerably more complete Detroit Pistons team than Rose does now in Chicago when he won back-to-back championships in 1989 and 1990.

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  • Jono

    Have Joe Dumars, not Rip Hamilton, as your backcourt team-mate.

  • floe

    In response, Isiah taught him how to harass female employees at MSG.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Who else knows how to win championships as a little man/PG better than Zeke? There’s a reason why Isiah is bar none the best little man to ever play the game

  • Bt

    The last part of this article is a joke. Rose has one of the best supporting cats in the league surrounding him. The difference is zeke made the players around him better and only took over the scoring when he needed to. Rose has to learn that score first shot dominant point guards have not, and will not win championships. The problem isnt derricks supporting cast, it’s derricks style of play

  • Will Lee

    have dennis rodman, john salley, james edward, bill laimbeer and Rick Mahorn at your front court instead of Carlos Boozer

  • bike

    Isiah should have told him ‘Son, you have to become a cold-blooded a*shole. All the great ones like me, are a*sholes. The bigger the a*shole you are, the better you will be. I am a real big a*shole. I like being an a*shole. You gotta stop this nice humble ‘ish. Strive to be an arrogant, nasty, Texas-sized a*shole.”

  • Jer Dawg

    Haha! How to ruin a franchise is more like it.

  • T-Money

    …by not going 1-4 low for the last 5 minutes of every playoffs games? yanno, doint pg-like stuff.

  • Justin G.

    @Bt…No, the difference is Thomas’ teammates were better players than Rose’s teammates. End of story

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    Cosign JTaylor…best little man ever.

  • Pingback: Derrick Rose Asked Isiah Thomas How to Win NBA Championships – SLAM Online | Sports Headline News

  • J.C.

    I love how candid and honest Rose is about himself and his desire to get better. You can tell this guy’s whole life is just consumed by the game. He’s really got that fire that MJ and Kobe are renowned for having.

  • Paul H

    @Floe I’m raging you got to that joke before I could! Zekes teammates were also professional thugs at a time when It was practically encouraged. Yes that was aimed at you, Bill. B*stard!

  • el_larsen

    I m not a drose fan(more a hater haha) but for ever love to zeke!
    nothing against lawrence franck ,but thomas should be our pistons coach(with laimbeer?)

  • http://Www.slamonline.com TADOne

    I love how really ignorant fans are about Isiah Thomas these days. Like the comment earlier, Zeke was the best little man to play the game. Yes, even better than AI. All everyone wants to talk about is his time as a coach (which truly isn’t even bad) and as a front office exec. Let the jokes die people.

  • LA Huey

    I hate the Bulls but Chicago has enough from Rose to win chips. The problem is, the front office hasn’t put enough complementary pieces around him. Do I think the Bulls would be better if Rose was more like Chris Paul? Yes. But you’re asking Rose carry way more of a burden than he’ll be able to sustain over the long haul.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Well Derrick, I had a HOF shooting guard playing next to me, a HOF power forward coming off the bench. Other then that, well, Mark Aguirre, Bill Laimbeer, Vinnie Johnson, and during his second title, the one in which the Pistons only lost 2 games in the playoffs total, they added Adrian Dantley. That Detroit team was uber stacked, This chicago team, not so much.

  • LA Huey

    TADOne, I think he was actually a good coach. His problem as an exec was that he had a blank check so he overpaid everyone and his eye for chemistry makes Walter White furious.

  • robb

    Isaiah was the man. I agree, best little man ever, he was incredibly competitive, good move by Rose, unfortunately popcorn muscles is not what you’d call a physical presence which is something Zeke could count on.

  • http://Www.slamonline.com TADOne

    Paul H: Dude learn your history. Just because they were called the ‘Bad Boys’ does not mean they were thugs. Joe Dumars, John Salley, Rick Mahorn, James Edwards, Vinnie Johnson, Mark Aguirre and yes even Rodman, Laimbeer and Isiah were some of the nicest dudes you could meet in person. Hard fouls were part of the NBA then and everyone did them.

  • http://averysmith.org Avery Smith

    man, the Bulls team is sick. From their starting line-up to their 2nd string. (And 3rd string pg aka John Lucas III) All they need is to man-up. Break a finger-nail in the playoffs. That’s it. They’ll beat Miami if they just get gully. Boozer 1/2 man 1/2 ghost, has got to start showing up offensively. Stop it with the jump shots! If Boozer continues this trend, he should be benched for Gibson. I think coming off the bench will motivate him to be more present on the floor. To work harder. Anyway, Rose’s game is incredible. No argument there. True that Miami has Norris Cole so that is an upgrade but I don’t know, they don’t have the complete cast as the Bulls.

  • http://Www.slamonline.com TADOne

    Actually NBK, Aguirre was the player added when they traded Dantley for him. Which still has Adrian upset to this day.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    My bad TAD, I had my years turned around. lol woops

  • http://espn.go.com/nba/recap/_/id/310203019/miami-heat-vs-orlando-magic Jukai

    TAD: In fairness, that’s because Isiah went up to the front office and told them “either Dantley goes or I go, f*ck him.”
    Seems like a nice dude to me.

  • http://nyill.wordpress.com Enigmatic

    Bulls are stacked no doubt.
    Probably one of the 5 deepest teams in the NBA today.
    Compared to those Pistons teams tho?
    Yeah, it’s not even close. Pistons were deep.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Man I just noticed I said they added Dantley and not Aguirre. And TAD’s correction went over my head. My double bad.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Don’t know what y’all are talking about, Thibs is a great coach.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Jahmai

    Saw this yesterday, great move by Drose to seek advice from Isiah. This is the year the Bulls are gonna win a championship (with Rose sort of healthy), I know it! Atleast I hope so…

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    Zeke actually did a great job coaching Indy. Knicks not so much…

  • Name

    Like it or not, the fact remains that Rose is a scoring point guard. History has proved that that isn’t conducive to winning championships.

  • http://Www.slamonline.com TADOne

    NBK: no problem. You know I’m the resident Pistons historian. And the truth to that story is Aguirre was his boy growing up in Chicago and he Zeke wanted to play with him. And yeah, he didn’t like Dantley too much. But you will never get him to admit it.

  • http://Www.slamonline.com TADOne

    But back on subject….Rose was smart for doing this. I think Zeke gave him some great advice. I love how humble Rose is.

  • Key_34

    Ha. Isiah’s response “Have a crew/team that will beat the other team’s superstar players into a pulp”

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Man I never knew that TAD.

  • ab40

    Tell one of your best friends and competitors he’s g@y through the media and piss everybody of while being an a**hole with a friendly smile who has even worse people as teammates. And after that whine about not being on the dream team for being an a$$. That’s how you win championships according to Isiah Thomas. Oh and work hard trust your teammates blah blah blah.

  • robb

    Chicago looks deep because of their bench, but the thing is their bench’s level and their starters level is practically the same except for Rose and Deng. That’s not enough to win a championship.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Jahmai

    I’m pretty confident it can be done with Rose, whoever they face in the Finals look beatable, it’s just the godd*mn HEAT!!

  • http://Www.slamonline.com TADOne

    Yeah ab40, cause Jordan was a model teammate and citizen who never undercut anyone right? And who exactly were his teammates that were in your opinion terrible people?? Please enlighten me.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Jahmai

    More specifically, it’s LeBron. I’m not even that worried about Wade or Bosh, it’s all LeBron. Let’s hope he has one of those LeBron Meltdown moments in the ECF, if Chicago is fortunate enough to make it 2 years in a row.

  • Paul H

    @tadone, hence the reason why I said “professional” thugs. I never mentioned anyones personal attributes off the court. The “badboys” were assholes on the court.

  • Bt

    Rose’s supporting cast isn’t the problem – Deng, boozer, Noah, Hamilton are all quality players. Only the celtics, lakers, thunder and heat are stronger at players 2-5. This lack of support excuse has gone on long enough. The blame has to start falling on rose eventually

  • jayrose

    Bulls has the pieces. One more piece can certainly put them over the top but they just have to stay healthy and start the game strong and finish even stronger. They have the talent, they just have to go all out.

  • http://nyill.wordpress.com Enigmatic

    It’s not just a Pistons thing, everyone from Chicago remembers the Thomas/Aguirre story.
    They’d wanted to play with each other since they were in high school.
    Would’ve played at DePaul together but you know, it’s pretty hard to turn down Bob Knight.
    @Name – and before MJ won 6 titles history had also proved that you couldn’t win titles with a high scoring 2 guard and no high quality big man, and before that last Pistons squad that won a title history also proved that you couldnt win withoit at least two stars, so what’s your poInt?

  • http://Www.slamonline.com TADOne

    And actually Name, Isiah was also a scoring PG. It worked out pretty well for him.

  • LA Huey

    “Only the celtics, lakers, thunder and heat are stronger at players 2-5″ So Rose should be able to pull it off simply because the Bulls are better from players 6-8? Deng is very good but he should be no higher than your 3rd best guy. Noah is a great 4th guy. Boozer SHOULD be #2 but we all know he’s not going to all of a sudden be the player the Bulls need him to be.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Walt Frazier would also like to beg the differ about scoring PG’s.

  • http://slamonline.com. datkid

    lmaooo @ bike and flo. and for the record, rose will get his ring… but only after Lebron and the heat get theirs, and/or become too old to play.

  • Bt

    @nbk – fraziers 19 assists in game 7 also show that like zeke, he knew when to score and when to pass and get his teammates involved. Rose is far from mastering that

    @La Huey – no thats not what im saying. my point is prople complain about the supporting cast like he has absolutely no help when he actually has some of the best help in the league

  • http://nba.com GP23

    I’m sorry, but I know one team who won it all with only one star. The ’94 Houston Rockets only had Hakeem Olajuwon as the star.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    How many points do you have to score to be a scoring point guard? Or does it have something to do with the ratio of points to assists?
    And Jerry West was the primary ballhandler for the Lakers.
    Just saying.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Walt Frazier was still a scoring PG. No matter how many assists he had in any game.

  • Red

    You guys act like history blatantly predicts the future, stop it history gets erased everyday. Expect Rose to do great things come playoff time.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    Zeke is the greatest point guard ever, I would take him over Magic Johnson anyday. I am tired of Zeke not getting top 10 all time status, because what he did in the NBA at his size is greatness. He won rings while MJ, Magic, Bird all played in the NBA. BOOK IT!!!

  • http://nba.com GP23

    No way is Zeke the best Point Guard of all time. You know his attitude was bad, what with refusing to pass the ball to Michael Jordan in the All Star game, because he was purely jealous of him.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    I love Isiah, but Magic was a freak of nature and had ungodly talent. Magic is the best PG ever, maybe even the best player ever. Isiah is the 2nd best PG IMO.

  • http://Www.slamonline.com TADOne

    Allen I’m not looking at stats when I consider someone a scoring PG. By my definition, it is a person who is a natural playmaker and someone who knows how to get his team into sets and get people involved, but can also take over a game scoring wise on a consistent basis. Isiah could do that. Frazier could do that. Rose has the scoring touch of a 2 guard but is getting better every game with distributing the ball.

  • l2ising Phoenix

    LA Huey , lovin the breaking bad reference. Lol

  • http://bulls.com airs

    I officially hate the term “scoring point guard”.
    Its like we have to pigeonhole players and they can’t evolve or something.

  • ClydeSays

    On the court, Zeke was a winner who knew exactly when to pass & when to takeover. Rose will get there. He’s too talented & smart to just remain scorer his entire career.

    Off the court, well let’s just say Zeke never figured out what to do off the court…

  • shutup

    Lets be honest although many of them go in, the shots rose takes arent good shots, the one handed push shots from all around the lane, the way he scores leaves the team messed up to play solid transition d. The 1-4 set has all his teammates low in the set and his drives are the primary way he scores so hes not their to stop the break. I have a lot of respect for Isiah but Magic is number one, I think number two should be split between Thomas and Stockton, depending on what you value more stats or chips. and the comparison to Frazier is a bit deceiving, willis reed was the teams leading scorer the season they won the championship and he avg 2 shots more per game than frazier, the knicks also had 6 players avg double figure scoring.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Have we decided not to count Oscar Robertson as a point guard? Is he a two guard now?

  • http://nyill.wordpress.com Enigmatic

    I hate the term “pure point guard” because there’s no such thing.
    A point guard is supposed to orchestrate a team’s offense.
    Derrick Rose does that. He just also happens to be their primary scoring option.

  • http://bulls.com airs

    @shutup, those one handed push shots in the lane may not be good shots for you, or almost anyone else in the L, but those are routine for drose.
    Let’s not act like rose is launching jason williams pull up threes, if you watch the games you would know he picks and chooses his spots.
    Against the heat, that was out of neccessity, but he’s matured quickly as a “point guard” in the way he sets his team up.

  • http://Www.slamonline.com TADOne

    I love Zeke, but the all time Top 5 PG list should go:
    1) Magic 2) Oscar 3) Zeke 4) Stockton 5) Havlicek
    I’m sure I’m forgetting someone…

  • hugo

    zeke is underrated. period.

  • http://Www.slamonline.com TADOne

    And sorry I meant to say #5 was Cousy, not Havlicek. But I completely forgot about Kidd. Nash is probably # 6.

  • shutup

    I never said they dont go in, quite the contrary, but they are not “good” shots, they arent clean looks they arent in the natural flow of the offense and if it wasnt for the refs giving him calls it wouldnt be as prdouctive as it is. that being said when he finishes strong at the rim, or doesnt force his jumpshot those are what I consider to be “good” shots

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    I think Oscar was the utimate combo guard. He did a lot of scoring and passing in his prime without KAJ but later on become a true PG when KAJ came to the Bucks.

  • shutup

    I always thought of Robertson as a 2, but he would be #2 on my list if you count him as a 1

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Cousy should never that high on anybody’s list TAD. You’re better than that.
    Frazier, Kidd, Payton, Tiny, Nash, Cousy is better

  • http://nyill.wordpress.com Enigmatic

    Robertson was so damn special, man.
    He could play the 1, 2 or 3 effectively.
    I wish someone like him would come around again, a 6’5″ triple double machine who coul play multiple postitions effectively.

  • http://bulls.com airs

    I also never said you said they didn’t go in.
    I’m saying what you consider a bad shot doesn’t ring the same for a player like drose.
    Just like a fadeaway for kobe is routine, as where if jason richardson did the same it would be a bad shot.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I think you can have Oscar as a one or two. In today’s game, I’m not sure how we would discuss he and West since both dominated the ball, but both were also the primary scoring option at certain points.

  • bull22

    rose is too hard on himself and lots of ignorant comments today on this subject considering he has to get past a bunch of miami clowns who just loved blaming their past teammates for the team’s failures. if boozer,noah, and korver step-up. they will be in nba finals. they have been banged up all season and they are still winning… any true chicago fan that has been watching the bulls all season knows this is a very talented squad, and if you dont then its time to get the freak off the chicago bulls fanbase and find yourself another team!

  • http://Www.slamonline.com TADOne

    Allen, I was struggling with who to put at #5. Honestly, it should be Kidd. But I was looking at the impact Cousy had on the game back when he played.

  • http://bulls.com airs

    Cousy was great…for his era.
    The other pgs listed could probably still hoop in todays game and be just as effective

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    I think it’s the same way people look at Wade. A 2 that can play and excel at the 1 if needed. Obviously, West/Oscar are superior passers to Wade but the comparison is there.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    When West and Oscar played they were just guards. Only teams with a clearly superior ball handler had what we think of as a “Point Guard” today.

  • shutup

    a bad shot is a bad shot I dont think it matters who shoots it, if it breaks the flow of the offense and puts the team in a bad spot to defend its a bad shot. if hes wide open and wants to shoot it like that I dont consider it a bad shot but when he lets it fly when hes doubled or tripled in some cases or just forces it instead of taking what the defense is giving him

  • http://Www.slamonline.com TADOne

    What Chicago is missing is a good scoring 2 guard to take the pressure off Rose when the offense stalls. Corey Brewer is not the answer. Rip is past his prime. No one else on the squad is a good #2 scorer behind Rose. Deng and Boozer are both better as 3rd or 4th options. Someone like a Jason Richardson or Stephen Jackson would be perfect on this team.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    What do people mean when they say someone was great for his era? So you’re telling me that if Cousy had the benefit of today’s technological advancements (weight training, footware), improvements in medicine and food he wouldn’t be succesful in today’s game? No one knows for certain just how good past players would perform in this era, that’s why it’s easier to judge a player on how dominant he was during his era. Cousy was the premier PG during his time.

  • http://www.blogspot.com LLC#12

    I’ve always been confused about how Wade is a better 1 then all of miami’s other PG’s but he plays at 2..I feel like the heat would be better off with Wade at the 1 and then anybody who can catch and shoot at the 2, rather than trying to get any real productivity out of Chalmers.

  • Red

    Is it crazy to suggest plugging Korver into the 2 spot? He’s been efficient as can be.

  • Red

    If we’re going by era then Russell is the greatest, a bit random but whatever.

  • shutup

    if you put wade at the 1 when wade would drive to the basket no one would be there to stop the other team pressing the ball up the court, thats what Chicago suffers from, they are excellent once the D is established but in the transition they suffer greatly, the reason the Pistons were so effective was because Dumars was a defensive stopper so if thomas did drive and leave the backcourt open Dumars would be there to cover.

  • shutup

    and Im sorry no matter the training ,weight lifting or footware nothing would make Mikan to be able to compete against centers from any other era, that deosnt make him any less of a legend or Hall of Famer, just realistically the game has changed and players have evolved, what was fast back then isnt what is fast now look at most of the Olympic records.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Slick Ric

    Shutup needs to shut up because he does not know what the hell he is talking about. If you don’t like him cool but don’t say stupid sh*t, he should of shot more of those floaters in the playoffs against the heat because the were and will continue to clog the lane on him. What Rose needs to do is get his mid-range shot back in form because a couple years ago only cp3 and steve nash shot better from the mid-range than him at the PG position.

  • http://bulls.com airs

    I see where you’re coming from JT.
    But still, wilt and russell would also be able to hoop today.
    @shutup, those instances where rose may go up against “triple teams” are rare and nearly negligible if you’re using that for your debate.
    Those times are out of neccessity, he almost allways makes the right play.
    Remember when ppl grilled him about passing to scal for that last second 3?

  • http://www.slamonline.com Slick Ric

    Another thing, Rose can try to set up his teammates all he wants, teams are still going to be more concerned with him finishing at the rim so they are going to clog the paint and his teammates are going to get limited shots at the basket. Therefore he needs to work on that mid-range jumper and continue to use that floater he has in his repertoire.

  • http://shinefluid@aol.com truth serum

    LOL this “scoring PG” debates sounds like what they said about MJ!!! “a guy cant win the title and lead the league in scoring” “he shoots too much”. isiah and d.rose share that inner city chicago bond. like it or not d.rose has the eye of the tiger

  • shutup

    who said I dont like Rose? Im sorry if i offended your man-crush sentimentality, but if you drive and get the attention of 3/5 defenders that means someone is open; even by definition when you get double teamed someone is open. @airs I used that as an example if you dont think that 25% of Rose’s shots are forced then were not watching the same games, I’m also including in those bad shots the ones were he gets bailed out by the refs by whipping his head back, just because the ref gives him the call doesnt make it a good shot.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Lol have fun fellas.

  • http://shinefluid@aol.com truth serum

    i really dont think ppl realize or just dont wanna see it, but d.rose is a DOG man!! kobe didnt take notice of him for no reason. he is a relentless dog out there, and he’s gonna keep coming. he is now learning how to THINK the game! he wanna be the best man, and his hunger and will is strong

  • shutup

    @slic Ric maybe you should read my name and do it, DO IT!!!! lol if the lane is clogged and focused on Rose his teammates would have MORE open shots; how can you argue both sides? maybe if he didnt force those floaters the lane wouldnt clog, say like a drive and dish perhaps??????

  • http://bulls.com airs

    We’re definitely seeing something different out there.
    Because he DOES pass to the open man when he’s doubled or “tripled”.
    He’s even admittedly taking it more slowly to get the rest of his team involved this season.
    And, how can you possibly call shot attempts that get him to the line CONSISTENTLY a bad shot? Blame refs all you want but his aggressiveness should not be penalized.

  • http://www.reverbnation.com/tray24 T-Ray

    Jesus Christ these whole debates about Rose shoots too much and his supporters run to his aid is f*ckin ridiculous. Dude is going to win championships with this cast and we he does I hope these debates go away.

  • LA Huey

    “Is it crazy to suggest plugging Korver into the 2 spot?” Not crazy. Just silly. Korver is great spot-up shooter but a liability defensively (see his minutes in the ’11 ECF) and can’t create his own shot even against mediocre or smaller defenders. He’s good for certain situations.

  • shutup

    I do blame the refs, I admire his aggressiveness, but when the ref doesnt call it, do you consider it a bad shot then? and I never said he doesnt pass, but he doesnt pass every time, from what your saying you think everyone of his shots are the clear right choice, I’m debating the fact that some of his shots are ill-advised, its ok to admit your hero has flaws, MJ took a lot of bad shots in his career it doesnt make him any less great.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Slick Ric

    lol@shutup, now I know I’m not dealing with a smart person so I wont be responding to you anymore, Carlos boozer consistently gets open mid-range jumpers that he seems to miss against competition like miami, as well as other players but they don’t seem to knock them down. WTH game are you watching because miami purposely leaves many of these guys open to stop Rose from getting to the lane even though some of these guys aren’t necessarily bad shooters.

  • shutup

    read what you said “Another thing, Rose can try to set up his teammates all he wants, teams are still going to be more concerned with him finishing at the rim so they are going to clog the paint and his teammates are going to get limited shots at the basket.” and the reread your last post, your contradicting yourself.

  • shutup

    If you wanna argue the Kobe mentality fine his teammates arent good enough so any shot he decides to shoot would be better than any shot his team would shoot, or he tries to pass to them and they miss shots so he has to force it, whatever you want to say. hes avg 17 shots per game and 6 ft so lets say 20 shots per game is it that hard to say that 4 or 5 of those 20 are bad shots? or is rose that perfect in your mind?

  • http://bulls.com airs

    last comment, this is ridiculous.
    first off, he’s now my hero, so kill that noise.
    and your argument has regressed from “the shots he takes aren’t good shots” to “25% of his shots are bad” to “only some of his shots are ill-advised”.
    what is it.
    don’t try to turn this on me saying that i said he takes the correct shot all the time, cuz i never did.

  • http://bulls.com airs

    not*, that changes things

  • bull22

    @red i would love to know how these cats went from talking about rose and isiah thomas to talking about old cats who have nothing to do with this subject… thats why i can’t stand half these jokers who bring up their numbers and nonsense as if any player is standing in front of the terminal
    eagerly looking for our expertise, hahahahahahhaha.

  • shutup

    This is what i said “Lets be honest although many of them go in, the shots rose takes arent good shots, the one handed push shots from all around the lane,…” I was criticizing his shot selection but mainly the one handed push shots from around the lane, as well as ill-advised jumpshots, im saying at least 25% of his shots arent good shots, because if you agree at LEAST 1/4 of them are bad at least (hero stuff was directed at Slic ric, btw)

  • shutup

    at least you can see that he does take bad shots

  • patrick

    “Know your opponent better than you know yourself”? Lol, what kind of advice mumbo jumbo is that lol?

  • bull22

    no matter how much negative crap is spewed out on rose, one things certain.
    as one analyst put it he is the nba’s most accountable player…. what i respect about rose is even when its not his fault, he accepts the responsibility for when the team loses while the majority of his counterparts whine about the players they don’t have.

  • Big AL

    Every player takes bad shots from time to time (Wade, Kobe) but the problem is that boozer isnt pulling his weight and takes too many jumpshots. Rose blames himself for fizzling out in the playoffs but you gitta give him credit for giving it all he had. He started to show fatigue in the last months because he and Deng had to pick up the slack of Boozer not being aggressive scoring. I fully blame the bulls lost to MIA on Boozer and a little on Noah. They didnt take advantage of their matchups and Boozer plays such awful defense that Noah picks up fouls when he tries to help out when Boozers man gets good post position. Rose will win at least 1 championship butIm not sure if Boozer will still be on the team when it happens. Also Rose is racking up assist like crazy to be a “scoring PG” smh at you guys nit-picking

  • shutup

    where are you from bull22? first guess would be the Islands, then maybe England. the only time I ever heard anyone call a computer the terminal is in L4yer cake.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Derrick Rose shoots bad shots because he is the person the Bulls rely on to get a shot off at the end of the clock. Dude shoots 62% at the rim, & 45% from 3-9 feet. His Mid-Range game still needs work, but for the most part his floaters and shots inside the key are good shots. Even if you don’t like them.

  • ab40

    Rick Mahorn pushes women and Bill Laimbeer hurt players on the court on purpose. That’s bad people in my book.

  • bull22

    @shutup actually bruh was born in chicago and grew up in edgwater and logan square communities, i was around alot of cultures and thats why i can stomach alot of these dudes. no beef with you though, i just can’t stand some of these fake behind chicago fans who blast rose when he loses and kiss his arse when he wins or these same weird fans don’t know who to cheer for from one day to the next.

  • TRIMEGADON

    is isiah better than AI?

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Did Isiah win 2 titles in the “golden era” – that is all you really have to ask.

  • TRIMEGADON

    yes but still,is isiah a better basketball player than AI?

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Yes.

  • TRIMEGADON

    because of the 2 rings?

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    The 2 rings are basically what decides it yes. the 19, 9, 4 on 45% (and better man to man defense) compared to 26, 7, 4 on 42% (and crazy gambling selfish defense) are about even, you could argue for either. So you have to look at who was a better leader, and who had a bigger impact on winning.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    obviously this is my opinion (and many many others. AllenP probably has the best explanation of what made Isiah the best little man ever, if you get a chance, ask him about it) – I have no problem with you disagreeing. I don’t want to come off as my opinion is more important then yours or anyone else’s.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    No Isiah is better because he played better.
    He dominated as the main scoring option, then changed his game up to get other people involved, and balanced scoring with assisting better than Iverson ever did. But it’s damn close.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Not to mention he went head to head with some of the greatest players of his generation or any generation and played them tough and triumphed over them despite arguably having a less talented team. He was a great leader by example and by keeping others in line. Iverson for all his many gifts, was not the leader Isiah was, was not the winner Isiah was, and honestly did not have the overall “game” that Isiah had. To me.

  • TRIMEGADON

    so if it just comes down to the rings you know that basketball is a team game. and as far as leadership and impact on winning i think that we can both agree that lamb rod and jd sounds better than mat snow and mckie…

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    The best player on a basketball team has more of an impact on winning then the best player on any team in any other professional sport. Winning is paramount for great players in basketball. It’s why the best of the best always have rings. Nobody in the top 10 all-time is ringless. Iverson was great, absolutely great. But Isiah won in the toughest era in NBA history, against 3 of the top 7 players of all-time, during their prime. He was the unquestioned leader and best player on those teams. Iverson was selfish, the reason he got as far as he did with a team with Eric Snow, Aaron McKie, Dikembe Mutombo and all those other defensive stalwarts is because he was a great scoring talent. The rest of his game was subpar when you compare him to Thomas.

  • TRIMEGADON

    i cant disagree with what you say and all the points you make are correct but answer me this ; take isiah out and put ai on that team . would they still win those 2 not say even more than 2?

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    No I don’t think they win any – Iverson wouldn’t have meshed with those guys

  • Dan

    quite simple: win 4 games in each playoff round

  • TRIMEGADON

    i personally think that teams make those players who they are besides their pure talents. sixers exploited allens feeling for the basket because they simply didnt have anyone else.in my opinion if ai was to play in that era he would at least be a player at the same caliber as isiah thus rings wouldnt be a matter of judgement on who is a better player . i take allen p word though that this is indeed pretty damn close.

  • TRIMEGADON

    nice talking to you both though…good game bros!

  • TRIMEGADON

    speaking of game what you see tonight on that celtic laker?

  • TRIMEGADON

    speaking of game what you see on tonighs celtic laker thing?

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    You two man, thank you for not taking anything personally. That is a huge problem with these discussions normally

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    What you talkin bout regarding the game?

  • TRIMEGADON

    who wins it?

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Oh well Boston has won 5 straight, and LA is 3-9 on the road so….

  • TRIMEGADON

    stats dont always speak the truth my brother nbk!

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Lol ahh they don’t, but they do have a higher % of success then “gut feelings”. I think by about 40% (if you wanted the statistic on that. Haha Which may be wrong, I don’t exactly remember)

  • webstarr

    Stockton doesn’t get enough love around here.

  • TRIMEGADON

    dont matter..GO GUT FELLINGS!! eerr i mean GO PHILLY!!! peace.

  • shutup

    @bull i was getting more towards cultural background, I went to school with a bunch of people from Jamaica/ Antigua most of the time I would be playing FIFA or dominoes and when I read that comment it reminded me of it. As for the rest I believe Rose is guilty of shooting a little too much whether its due to an expiring shot clock or lack of team scoring ability a bad shot is a bad shot (taking a bad shot is different that having a penance for shooting bad shots btw) , I wish his team would be better for him, I wish the Bulls success but not before the Heat, (just sick of the Lebron hate) and both of those teams take a back seat to the Spurs in my heart and the only team I root against are the Lakers because I hate how Shaq was run out of town

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    ^^^^^Who Cares

  • shutup

    ^^^ you forgot your catch phrase. Your name is fitting though, Your comments always remind me of the stain left behind on a hookers inner thigh

  • Black

    D Rose is a beast, yes when he came in he was a score first pg. Now he is a pg that can score. Bulls are deep and his scoring numbers have dropped while his assist number have gone up quite a bit this season. If the bulls are completely healthy in the ECF, I have great confidence that they can beat the heat. Now meeting up with Durant in the finals will be a threat.

  • SouTh SiDer

    @shutup have you watched all the bulls games this year? Or are you basing everything off 1 or 2 games you caught?

  • http://www.leaguelineup.com/welcome.asp?url=pawtucketymca Gametimeweezy

    If winning rings is the biggest measure of greatness, then why is Stockton so high on the list then and Iverson not?? Oh right, it has more to do than just rings guys… that being said Isaiah was a winner. DRose is a smart man.

  • http://slamonline.com The Philosopher

    Okay, my brethren. Here it is;
    Kyrie Irving is Sam Cassell Jr.
    Derek Harper? How about Terry Porter?
    Maybe even Walt Frazier.

  • Justin G.

    Exactly what makes a person more of a “winner” than the next? Winning championships is not really a way to compare two people when talking about their basketball skills. Thomas’ Detroit teams were obviously far and away better than any team Iverson played on. Would Thomas have been able to get Iverson’s Sixers team to the Finals? Debatable. So many people taking shots at Rose for what he has or hasn’t been able to accomplish is ridiculous. He’s what…? 24 years old? In his fourth year? Magic is one of the few superstars that came into the league and started winning championships right away. Give him time people. He’s not even in his prime yet. @AllenP…Payton is not better than Nash. You’re better than that. :-)

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