Thursday, February 9th, 2012 at 10:30 am  |  147 responses

Derrick Rose Asked Isiah Thomas How to Win NBA Titles


by Marcel Mutoni / @marcel_mutoni

Derrick Rose, admittedly, was down in the dumps after the Miami Heat eliminated the Chicago Bulls from the Playoffs last year.

The reigning MVP blamed himself for his team’s flameout in the Eastern Conference Finals, and was in a desperate search for answers: how could he ever get the Bulls over the championship hump, especially given just how rarely point guards of his size carry their squads to the NBA’s promised land.

Rose turned to Isiah Thomas, someone who might be able to provide him with some answers. Derrick asked his fellow Chicago native – a man who went through his share of postseason heartbreak – how he managed to win titles.

From ESPN:

Isiah Thomas said he met Rose last year after a game in Detroit and that Rose contacted him after the Bulls’ season had ended. “He was pretty down,” Thomas said. “He asked me ‘How did you do it? How did you win back-to-back championships at this size?’ And my response to him was that once you understand your opponent and know your opponent better than you know yourself, you’ll win.” […] Rose understands Thomas’ historical standing in both Chicago basketball and the NBA. “… He’s somebody where in Chicago, you definitely got to look up to, especially being a guard, winning championships in this league,” Rose said. “[I] try to take things out of his game and put them into mine. But [he's] a cool dude. I played against his son in AAU. And he’s from Chicago so I got to look up to him.” “It’s hard to pattern your game after somebody that’s great like that,” Rose said. “If anything, he was a winner. His will to win, no matter how big he was on the floor, he was a small guy, but his passion for the game and how dedicated he was to playing the game.”

“He’s very courageous,” Thomas said of his fellow Chicago native. “You’ve got to be courageous and you’ve got to make sacrifices in terms of your body to have success as a small man in the NBA and to win championships. And I emphasize win championships, because you can pile up statistics and great numbers playing a non-aggressive style and have a great career. But if you want to win championships, you have to pay the price and Derrick is definitely paying the price.” […] Thomas said any talk of resting Rose in an effort to protect him from injury is foolish. “I have a West Side mentality, and that is you’re either fighting to get it or fighting to keep it,” he said. “But make no mistake about it, you are always in the fight. … You want to sit me down and coddle me?”

Media and fans today treat Isiah Thomas as a punchline, endlessly pointing out his shortcomings as an NBA executive and coach. But for players in the League, he represents a living legend, someone whose guidance is to be valued. And, of course, they’re right.

Derrick Rose should take Isiah Thomas’ advice, but one thing remains inescapable: Zeke had a considerably more complete Detroit Pistons team than Rose does now in Chicago when he won back-to-back championships in 1989 and 1990.

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  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Walt Frazier was still a scoring PG. No matter how many assists he had in any game.

  • Red

    You guys act like history blatantly predicts the future, stop it history gets erased everyday. Expect Rose to do great things come playoff time.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    Zeke is the greatest point guard ever, I would take him over Magic Johnson anyday. I am tired of Zeke not getting top 10 all time status, because what he did in the NBA at his size is greatness. He won rings while MJ, Magic, Bird all played in the NBA. BOOK IT!!!

  • http://nba.com GP23

    No way is Zeke the best Point Guard of all time. You know his attitude was bad, what with refusing to pass the ball to Michael Jordan in the All Star game, because he was purely jealous of him.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    I love Isiah, but Magic was a freak of nature and had ungodly talent. Magic is the best PG ever, maybe even the best player ever. Isiah is the 2nd best PG IMO.

  • http://Www.slamonline.com TADOne

    Allen I’m not looking at stats when I consider someone a scoring PG. By my definition, it is a person who is a natural playmaker and someone who knows how to get his team into sets and get people involved, but can also take over a game scoring wise on a consistent basis. Isiah could do that. Frazier could do that. Rose has the scoring touch of a 2 guard but is getting better every game with distributing the ball.

  • l2ising Phoenix

    LA Huey , lovin the breaking bad reference. Lol

  • http://bulls.com airs

    I officially hate the term “scoring point guard”.
    Its like we have to pigeonhole players and they can’t evolve or something.

  • ClydeSays

    On the court, Zeke was a winner who knew exactly when to pass & when to takeover. Rose will get there. He’s too talented & smart to just remain scorer his entire career.

    Off the court, well let’s just say Zeke never figured out what to do off the court…

  • shutup

    Lets be honest although many of them go in, the shots rose takes arent good shots, the one handed push shots from all around the lane, the way he scores leaves the team messed up to play solid transition d. The 1-4 set has all his teammates low in the set and his drives are the primary way he scores so hes not their to stop the break. I have a lot of respect for Isiah but Magic is number one, I think number two should be split between Thomas and Stockton, depending on what you value more stats or chips. and the comparison to Frazier is a bit deceiving, willis reed was the teams leading scorer the season they won the championship and he avg 2 shots more per game than frazier, the knicks also had 6 players avg double figure scoring.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Have we decided not to count Oscar Robertson as a point guard? Is he a two guard now?

  • http://nyill.wordpress.com Enigmatic

    I hate the term “pure point guard” because there’s no such thing.
    A point guard is supposed to orchestrate a team’s offense.
    Derrick Rose does that. He just also happens to be their primary scoring option.

  • http://bulls.com airs

    @shutup, those one handed push shots in the lane may not be good shots for you, or almost anyone else in the L, but those are routine for drose.
    Let’s not act like rose is launching jason williams pull up threes, if you watch the games you would know he picks and chooses his spots.
    Against the heat, that was out of neccessity, but he’s matured quickly as a “point guard” in the way he sets his team up.

  • http://Www.slamonline.com TADOne

    I love Zeke, but the all time Top 5 PG list should go:
    1) Magic 2) Oscar 3) Zeke 4) Stockton 5) Havlicek
    I’m sure I’m forgetting someone…

  • hugo

    zeke is underrated. period.

  • http://Www.slamonline.com TADOne

    And sorry I meant to say #5 was Cousy, not Havlicek. But I completely forgot about Kidd. Nash is probably # 6.

  • shutup

    I never said they dont go in, quite the contrary, but they are not “good” shots, they arent clean looks they arent in the natural flow of the offense and if it wasnt for the refs giving him calls it wouldnt be as prdouctive as it is. that being said when he finishes strong at the rim, or doesnt force his jumpshot those are what I consider to be “good” shots

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    I think Oscar was the utimate combo guard. He did a lot of scoring and passing in his prime without KAJ but later on become a true PG when KAJ came to the Bucks.

  • shutup

    I always thought of Robertson as a 2, but he would be #2 on my list if you count him as a 1

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Cousy should never that high on anybody’s list TAD. You’re better than that.
    Frazier, Kidd, Payton, Tiny, Nash, Cousy is better

  • http://nyill.wordpress.com Enigmatic

    Robertson was so damn special, man.
    He could play the 1, 2 or 3 effectively.
    I wish someone like him would come around again, a 6’5″ triple double machine who coul play multiple postitions effectively.

  • http://bulls.com airs

    I also never said you said they didn’t go in.
    I’m saying what you consider a bad shot doesn’t ring the same for a player like drose.
    Just like a fadeaway for kobe is routine, as where if jason richardson did the same it would be a bad shot.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I think you can have Oscar as a one or two. In today’s game, I’m not sure how we would discuss he and West since both dominated the ball, but both were also the primary scoring option at certain points.

  • bull22

    rose is too hard on himself and lots of ignorant comments today on this subject considering he has to get past a bunch of miami clowns who just loved blaming their past teammates for the team’s failures. if boozer,noah, and korver step-up. they will be in nba finals. they have been banged up all season and they are still winning… any true chicago fan that has been watching the bulls all season knows this is a very talented squad, and if you dont then its time to get the freak off the chicago bulls fanbase and find yourself another team!

  • http://Www.slamonline.com TADOne

    Allen, I was struggling with who to put at #5. Honestly, it should be Kidd. But I was looking at the impact Cousy had on the game back when he played.

  • http://bulls.com airs

    Cousy was great…for his era.
    The other pgs listed could probably still hoop in todays game and be just as effective

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    I think it’s the same way people look at Wade. A 2 that can play and excel at the 1 if needed. Obviously, West/Oscar are superior passers to Wade but the comparison is there.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    When West and Oscar played they were just guards. Only teams with a clearly superior ball handler had what we think of as a “Point Guard” today.

  • shutup

    a bad shot is a bad shot I dont think it matters who shoots it, if it breaks the flow of the offense and puts the team in a bad spot to defend its a bad shot. if hes wide open and wants to shoot it like that I dont consider it a bad shot but when he lets it fly when hes doubled or tripled in some cases or just forces it instead of taking what the defense is giving him

  • http://Www.slamonline.com TADOne

    What Chicago is missing is a good scoring 2 guard to take the pressure off Rose when the offense stalls. Corey Brewer is not the answer. Rip is past his prime. No one else on the squad is a good #2 scorer behind Rose. Deng and Boozer are both better as 3rd or 4th options. Someone like a Jason Richardson or Stephen Jackson would be perfect on this team.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    What do people mean when they say someone was great for his era? So you’re telling me that if Cousy had the benefit of today’s technological advancements (weight training, footware), improvements in medicine and food he wouldn’t be succesful in today’s game? No one knows for certain just how good past players would perform in this era, that’s why it’s easier to judge a player on how dominant he was during his era. Cousy was the premier PG during his time.

  • http://www.blogspot.com LLC#12

    I’ve always been confused about how Wade is a better 1 then all of miami’s other PG’s but he plays at 2..I feel like the heat would be better off with Wade at the 1 and then anybody who can catch and shoot at the 2, rather than trying to get any real productivity out of Chalmers.

  • Red

    Is it crazy to suggest plugging Korver into the 2 spot? He’s been efficient as can be.

  • Red

    If we’re going by era then Russell is the greatest, a bit random but whatever.

  • shutup

    if you put wade at the 1 when wade would drive to the basket no one would be there to stop the other team pressing the ball up the court, thats what Chicago suffers from, they are excellent once the D is established but in the transition they suffer greatly, the reason the Pistons were so effective was because Dumars was a defensive stopper so if thomas did drive and leave the backcourt open Dumars would be there to cover.

  • shutup

    and Im sorry no matter the training ,weight lifting or footware nothing would make Mikan to be able to compete against centers from any other era, that deosnt make him any less of a legend or Hall of Famer, just realistically the game has changed and players have evolved, what was fast back then isnt what is fast now look at most of the Olympic records.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Slick Ric

    Shutup needs to shut up because he does not know what the hell he is talking about. If you don’t like him cool but don’t say stupid sh*t, he should of shot more of those floaters in the playoffs against the heat because the were and will continue to clog the lane on him. What Rose needs to do is get his mid-range shot back in form because a couple years ago only cp3 and steve nash shot better from the mid-range than him at the PG position.

  • http://bulls.com airs

    I see where you’re coming from JT.
    But still, wilt and russell would also be able to hoop today.
    @shutup, those instances where rose may go up against “triple teams” are rare and nearly negligible if you’re using that for your debate.
    Those times are out of neccessity, he almost allways makes the right play.
    Remember when ppl grilled him about passing to scal for that last second 3?

  • http://www.slamonline.com Slick Ric

    Another thing, Rose can try to set up his teammates all he wants, teams are still going to be more concerned with him finishing at the rim so they are going to clog the paint and his teammates are going to get limited shots at the basket. Therefore he needs to work on that mid-range jumper and continue to use that floater he has in his repertoire.

  • http://shinefluid@aol.com truth serum

    LOL this “scoring PG” debates sounds like what they said about MJ!!! “a guy cant win the title and lead the league in scoring” “he shoots too much”. isiah and d.rose share that inner city chicago bond. like it or not d.rose has the eye of the tiger

  • shutup

    who said I dont like Rose? Im sorry if i offended your man-crush sentimentality, but if you drive and get the attention of 3/5 defenders that means someone is open; even by definition when you get double teamed someone is open. @airs I used that as an example if you dont think that 25% of Rose’s shots are forced then were not watching the same games, I’m also including in those bad shots the ones were he gets bailed out by the refs by whipping his head back, just because the ref gives him the call doesnt make it a good shot.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Lol have fun fellas.

  • http://shinefluid@aol.com truth serum

    i really dont think ppl realize or just dont wanna see it, but d.rose is a DOG man!! kobe didnt take notice of him for no reason. he is a relentless dog out there, and he’s gonna keep coming. he is now learning how to THINK the game! he wanna be the best man, and his hunger and will is strong

  • shutup

    @slic Ric maybe you should read my name and do it, DO IT!!!! lol if the lane is clogged and focused on Rose his teammates would have MORE open shots; how can you argue both sides? maybe if he didnt force those floaters the lane wouldnt clog, say like a drive and dish perhaps??????

  • http://bulls.com airs

    We’re definitely seeing something different out there.
    Because he DOES pass to the open man when he’s doubled or “tripled”.
    He’s even admittedly taking it more slowly to get the rest of his team involved this season.
    And, how can you possibly call shot attempts that get him to the line CONSISTENTLY a bad shot? Blame refs all you want but his aggressiveness should not be penalized.

  • http://www.reverbnation.com/tray24 T-Ray

    Jesus Christ these whole debates about Rose shoots too much and his supporters run to his aid is f*ckin ridiculous. Dude is going to win championships with this cast and we he does I hope these debates go away.

  • LA Huey

    “Is it crazy to suggest plugging Korver into the 2 spot?” Not crazy. Just silly. Korver is great spot-up shooter but a liability defensively (see his minutes in the ’11 ECF) and can’t create his own shot even against mediocre or smaller defenders. He’s good for certain situations.

  • shutup

    I do blame the refs, I admire his aggressiveness, but when the ref doesnt call it, do you consider it a bad shot then? and I never said he doesnt pass, but he doesnt pass every time, from what your saying you think everyone of his shots are the clear right choice, I’m debating the fact that some of his shots are ill-advised, its ok to admit your hero has flaws, MJ took a lot of bad shots in his career it doesnt make him any less great.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Slick Ric

    lol@shutup, now I know I’m not dealing with a smart person so I wont be responding to you anymore, Carlos boozer consistently gets open mid-range jumpers that he seems to miss against competition like miami, as well as other players but they don’t seem to knock them down. WTH game are you watching because miami purposely leaves many of these guys open to stop Rose from getting to the lane even though some of these guys aren’t necessarily bad shooters.

  • shutup

    read what you said “Another thing, Rose can try to set up his teammates all he wants, teams are still going to be more concerned with him finishing at the rim so they are going to clog the paint and his teammates are going to get limited shots at the basket.” and the reread your last post, your contradicting yourself.

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