Post Up: Still Fly

Didn’t realize Wade was played in 16 games. Fair argument. Wade is better unless he’s injured, and sounds like your all saying he hasn’t been that injured so I concede. Ellis is number 3 though. Manu when he’s right is as good as Wade even. Manu is a freak.

Manu is a Hall of Famer

no, nbk, wrong. Hockey refs have it harder- it’s a faster game by a country mile. Also, isn’t every ball/strike call a judgement call? because then there would be a TON more judgement calls in baseball, and that’s only factoring in calling the pitches.

In terms of balls and strikes? yes those are all “judgement” calls. (Except Baseball Umps actually get fined for missing calls). Plus they aren’t interpreting contact of two people, they are calling a ball or strike based on where the ball passes over the plate. It’s a right or wrong, nothing really to speculate. It doesn’t have nearly as much to do with interpretation as basketball foul calls do, for example.

Hockey Refs? How often do they blow their whistle? And what interpretation calls are they making? (I do not know a lot about Hockey)

I should have just said American professional sports. I didn’t know Rugby refs had anything to interpet. Don’t they only blow the whistle if someone is dead? (that is a joke people)

I was watching some Rugby games at the gym… I was kinda disappointed… Europeans make it seem like it’s football without any armor, but it’s not. It looks more like wrestling. It’s tough and all, but no one is being tackled at a million miles an hour, they’re being wrestled to the ground.
I also didn’t understand any of it, but hey, looked fun.

I don’t see how Manu can be above Ellis now. I know how great he is in limited minutes, but he plays those limited minutes because of how hurt he always is. Saying “a healthy Manu” is like saying “a healthy Yao Ming” when comparing best centers. Yeah, if Manu is healthy and playing 35 minutes a game, he’s better than Ellis… but he will never be playing 35 minutes a game again. Ever. Even in his late 20s, when he was throwing down those flying dunks, you’d look at those knees and cringe… Last year he played about 30 minutes a game and was limping around the entire time. Now, I doubt he’ll play more than 25. He really is an all-time great, but his body just isn’t up for it anymore.

to oversimplify, hockey refs have to observe a game involving constant contact, and then determine when that contact is not allowed, and how, and why not. I’m kind of at a loss to start explaining how hard it is to be a hockey ref, and how often they have to interpret player’s actions as being legal or otherwise. Constantly? would be my best guess. And that’s before even considering puck infractions, goalmouth infractions, etc. Also, I think the speed of the game only makes their job even harder. And they’re on skates. And sometimes being beaned with pucks. And having to deal with the wrath of pinko-hater extraordinaire Don Cherry.

Jukai, I don’t have to explain to you why he doesn’t play heavy minutes do I? You realize San Antonio is coached by Gregg Poppovich, and all they do is win right? Manu does have a propensity to get injured at inopportune times, BUT he played 80 games last season, 75 the year before that, 44, 74, 75, 65, 74, 77, 79, 69. Pretty durable for a guy who is like “Yao Ming”

Sorry, that was me who posted as NBK at 2:31.
Monta’s body control is crazy. And, he is great at using the P&R and coming off down screens already in attack position. Lots of players today waste the benefit of a down screen by not being able to attack or shoot as soon as they catch the ball. Monta doesn’t do that, then you add to that his off the bounce game is very nice. His main problem is that his jumper, while nice, isn’t automatic, and he tends to settle for his jumper too often. The Warriors could be so much better if Biedrins had lost his will to play.

burnt I don’t think you quite understand what I mean. I understand that Hockey can be harder to interpret, but how often do they really stop play and blow their whistle? Cuz it’s constant in basketball. A Basketball referee has more of an effect on the outcome of a game, due to their interpretations then in any other sport. Hockey is more physically demanding then anything to officiate, the hardest sport from an individual standpoint to referee because of the torrent pace and tiny puck (and the threat of being murdered by an errant shot) but they aren’t actually interfering with the game like a basketball referee does.

click my name for an article about the difficulties and differences in refereeing the various major american professional sports.

in hockey, the whistle usually results in a player being sent to the penalty box for 2 minutes. Thus, your team plays shorthanded until the penalty has been served, or until the shorthanded team has been scored on. Given how hard it is to score in hockey even handed versus how much easier it is to score when your team has an extra player, ONE BAD call can drastically rewrite the course of action. If hockey refs blew their whistles all the time, not only would there be no flow, but the game would be unplayable. Thus, refs are always assessing whether or not to blow the play dead based on a serious-enough infraction to warrant it–and when they don’t it’s often because the ref has made the judgement that the infraction was not illegal enough to stop play. thanks for the link- the article is appreciated.

I think Manu is one of the smartest players, that’s the reason that he is so good. I would still take a healthy Ginobili over Ellis any day. It’s not just the scoring, it’s the way that he influences the whole game. Stats don’t always give the whole story. I think he is more likely to make a good choice with the game on the line. He is a very good closer. Also, as far as the rugby point, there are a ton of rules in rugby regarding how a tackle is made, who by, what point the player is released etc. It really is a tough game to officiate, there was massive controversy just this past weekend in the Ireland vs. Wales match, the referee made two questionable calls. In the aftermath however all of the players and coaches just moved on, there is a tremendous amount of respect for the refs in the sport. I think one of the things that helps is that the refs are mic’d up, so basically, everyone viewers, fans, players know exactly what their thinking is. I think that is a good thing.

I would take a healthy Manu over Monta too.
But, I want to point out that in 2006 people thought Manu was as good or better than wade, which was just ludicrous. That’s how he’s overrated. Poeple always say “He could easily average 25!” Yeah, he could. But would the team win. If he was the centerpiece of a team like Wade or Bron or other superstars, what would that team look like record wise and could he produce for 70+ games? I don’t think so to be honest.

that’s a very good point, allen. i always believed that players had a “range” that was sometimes more important in assessing their level than the actual output. for example, al thornton played 37 mins and scored 17 pts in his second year in the league. but those numbers are outside of his range, meaning that a team can’t be successful with al dropping 17 and playing 37 minutes. his range is more like 8-10 points in 15-20 mins max. it’s the same thing with manu, if he is your featured guy taking 20 shots and trying to score 25 every night, you will be a 6th seed max.

T-Money
Yeah, me and my homeboy assign players rankings 1-5 and basically talk about how your team’s success depends on what time of mixture of players you have. And, how if a player is miscast a role they don’t have the game for it will affect your team in the long run.
It’s why a player like Bosh was miscast as a 1, but is amazing as 2, and inconsistent as a 3. Each role takes a certain mindset.

in that case allen, monta is a 1 for the warriors, would be better off as a 2, and would be the deadliest player in the league as a 3

well, he was a 3 behind baron and stephen jackson. his numbers were insane that year (shooting 53% as a shooting guard).

I don’t think he viewed himself as an “alpha male” type player in 09. His mindset has changed, I doubt he could revert back to a role, pick your spots type scorer.

Damn, missed NBK’s comment. He said what I was going to say.

wasn’t he an off-the bench spark plug for the we-believe warriors? he was pretty efficient then. isn’t that kind of the same thing as being a 3?

@Jukai, watch some Rugby LEAGUE, its a lot more like nfl without pads then Rugby union.

Y’all see that BYU video of the comedian in black face. Yeah, ok.