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Tuesday, March 20th, 2012 at 8:35 am  |  182 responses

Post Up: Booz Cruise

Chicago steamrolls Orlando sans the MVP, the Champs blow out Denver and more.

by Abe Schwadron | @abe_squad

A six-pack to attack, let’s get it.

Sixers 105, Bobcats 80

I feel like I’ve written this before, but here goes: What’s the best cure to a 3-game losing streak? Playing the Bobcats, of course. Charlotte was outrebounded 51-31 and shot worse than 39 percent, while allowing Philadelphia to shoot better than 53 percent from the field, and the ‘Cats starters combined for only 42 points. The Sixers got 20 points apiece from Jrue Holiday and Thaddeus Young, while Spencer Hawes continues to get his strength back, last night finishing with 13 points, 11 rebounds and 3 blocks in 24 minutes as a starter. Evan Turner shot 3-11 and scored just 6 points, but his Philly teammates were scorching hot, and the Bobcats were not. The Sixers still hold a 1.5-game lead over Boston in the Atlantic Division.

Cavaliers 105, Nets 100

Cleveland might not have it so bad after all—if last night’s performance was any indication of the pair of rookies they selected in this past year’s Draft, things are certainly looking up. As for the Nets, well, Brooklyn! Tristan Thompson scored a career-high 27 points and pulled down 12 boards, and Kyrie Irving poured in 26 points plus 7 assists and 5 rebounds as the Cavs snapped a 3-game losing skid. Thompson gave the Cavaliers the game’s final lead on a tip-in with 1:11 to play (off a Kyrie driving miss) for 2 of Cleveland’s 66 points in the paint on the night. Deron Williams (28 points, 8 dimes) and Gerald Wallace (27 points, 12 boards) tried to will New Jersey back into the game, but it was too little, too late for the Nets, who have lost 3 straight. DWill committed a costly turnover with less than 20 seconds to play and New Jersey down by 3, sealing the Nets’ fate.

Celtics 79, Hawks 76

Calling this game a low-scoring affair would be putting it nicely, as each team shot 39 percent from the field and had 17 turnovers. But in the end, Boston rattled off a 13-0 fourth-quarter run on the strength of Ray Allen’s outside shooting and squeaked out the win. The Celtics had to hold off a super surge from the Hawks in the closing moments, as Joe Johnson (game-high 25 points) drilled three 3-pointers, including one that pulled ATL within 1 with 11.6 seconds left to play. Even on a forgettable shooting night for Josh Smith (5-20), he still put together a 10-11-8 line. But Boston improved to 24-21 behind 19 points from Allen, 16 from Garnett and 10 points, 13 dimes and 6 swipes from Rajon Rondo.

Bulls 85, Magic 59

Chicago continues to roll without Derrick Rose, and last night the Bulls did it in damn impressive fashion, holding the Magic to 59 points—the fewest Chicago has ever allowed in franchise history. Carlos Boozer killed Orlando all night, finishing with 24 points and 13 rebounds, and backup point guard John Lucas dropped 20 off the bench (on a night when fill-in starter CJ Watson shot 0-8 from the field and scored just 1 point) as Tom Thibodeau became the quickest coach in NBA history to get to 100 wins. The Bulls are 3-1 with Rose resting his sore groin and an NBA-best 38-10 overall. The Magic, meanwhile, couldn’t hit water from a boat—they shot 35 percent from the field, got double-digit scoring nights from only two players (Dwight Howard scored 18 and Ryan Anderson had 10) and ended the night with only 9 assists compared to 18 turnovers. That’s losses on consecutive nights to Miami and Chicago for Howard and company. Not much else to report from this game, other than that I’m about ready to nominate Chris Duhon as the L’s worst rotation player. He’d fit right in at the bi-weekly (and potentially now-extinct) SLAM pick-up runs.

Mavericks 112, Nuggets 95

In a game that was really never that close, there was plenty to look at. For starters, Dirk Nowitzki had a sick game—33 points on 12-19 shooting, 11 rebounds and 6 assists—in leading the defending Champs to 27-20 on the year, which puts Dallas just a half-game back of the Clippers’ for the No. 4 spot in the West. Then, there was the much-anticipated duo of “debuts” for Denver. Alliterations aside, Wilson Chandler scored 13 points in 28 minutes, while Javale McGee sat nailed to the bench even in a blowout. And a blowout it was, as the Mavs shot 54 percent from the field, outscored the Nuggets in every quarter, totaled 33 assists as a team and led by as many as 22. Dallas had 6 players in double figures scoring-wise, while Arron Afflalo led the Nuggs with 24. But hey, let’s give the Nuggets (25-21) and their fans a break—they were clearly distracted.

Timberwolves 97, Warriors 93

Richard Jefferson hit a corner 3-pointer with just over six minutes to go in the fourth quarter, giving Golden State an 86-85 lead, but Minnesota then ripped off the next 8 points without a single tally from the Dubs, and the Timberwolves improved to 23-24 behind a monster game from Kevin Love. The bearded big man turned in a 36-point, 17-rebound performance while logging a game-high 44 minutes. The Wolves took a 14-point lead into halftime before seeing it evaporate thanks to a big third quarter from the Warriors, who were led in scoring by David Lee’s 25 points. For as uptempo as Golden State likes to play, they protected the ball well, turning it over just 8 times (17 for Minny), but the Wolves dominated on the boards (48 rebounds to 33 for GSW) and Stephen Curry remains on the mend.

Lines of the Night: KLove’s 36 points and 17 rebounds or Dirk’s efficient 33-11-6.

Dunks of the Night: Jeff Teague and Deron Williams do the honors.

Tonight: Of the seven games set for Tuesday, only one pits two sub-.500 teams against each other, which means we’ve got six good matchups to talk about tomorrow, including Clippers at Pacers, Lakers at Rockets and Thunder at Jazz.

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  • http://slamonline.com Nella

    I keep finding my self impressed by how stealthily athletic Jeff Teague is, but I shouldn’t be surprised anymore. That drive and dunk was nasty.

  • IAMORANGE4EVER

    14 games without Rose this season, and Bulls are a big 10-4 without him. Beating the Magic by 26 and in Orlando. Wow!

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    Derrick Rose has no supporting cast…

  • cecil

    are you implying that Chris Duhon, as bad as he is, would not just torch a bunch of Slam scribes? He is still in the NBA…

  • IAMORANGE4EVER

    @Wayno Adidas should have gave the supporting cast that shoe deal…

  • http://www.reverbnation.com/tray24 T-Ray

    Looks like Jeff Teague should have stfu after that dunk. Ray Allen quietly gave him a big middle finger with his dagger threes.

  • Paul H

    Said It before, say It again, the Bulls are a playoff team without Rose and a contender with him. That Is as well schooled, disciplined and unselfish a squad as there Is In the League. But they would not sniff the Finals, or even the Conference finals without Rose. On another note Kevin Love has been drifting into Shaq circa 2000 numbers recently: 30 and 13 on the regular over his last 10-15 games. I’d be happy to see RJ do well at Golden state, dude has always played hard…

  • IAMORANGE4EVER

    Bottom line, Thibs is the most important piece to the Bulls.

  • Heals

    I hope DH12 knows there’s no trade deadline this Th…

  • Heals

    Atl v Bos was an ugly, good game. Refs were subpar at best (both ways), the crowd was raucus (way to show out C’s fans) and JSmoove calling RayRay a “kitty ninja” twice, then RayRay dropping daggers was classic…

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-talk/2011 Diesel

    Thibs for coach of the year again? They’ve basically had one or two starters out of the lineup all season and he still coached them to the best record in the league.

  • Paul H

    It would be hard to argue against Thibs the way he has the Bull’s playing.

  • http://www.reverbnation.com/tray24 T-Ray

    I think COY has gotta be Doug Collins. Although the Bulls have had some stars out they are a good team without Rose and anyone else. That’s a owe to just great team play. The Sixers are 4th in the East and they were 7th last year.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    You really couldn’t go wrong with either Thibs of Collins for COY. They’ve both done an exceptional job. Also, I’m calling my shot for next year COY: Lawrence Frank….Detroit will be in the playoff next year…book it.

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    Dirk was RiDirkulous last nght.
    Had 6 assists mid 2nd quarter already, made FOUR(!) Running hook shots, one with the left hand and ne ending in an And1. I really like that shot for him, highly effective.
    He splashed his first 5 shots over everyone the Nuggets threw at him. Even had a classic heatcheck loooong 3 in the 3rd quarter that barely moved the net.
    Dallas with big wins these last 2 games and passing the ball so well. Kidd and Beaubois were great, but Terry seems to be playing with his own agenda. Chucking shots all game long, not even in the flow of the game. Too bad really. Wright and Mahinmi are so much better than Haywood, it’s laughable. Even Vince was effective, Lamar though….*sigh*
    Bring on the Lakers.

  • Paul H

    @Darksaber, thats the best I have seen him play since this season. Unreal. Even tho the Mavs have been up and down recently I still don’t think we are going to really see how good they are till It matters. Nobody wants to see the Mavs in the first round.

  • Paul H

    *play this season

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    Paul, i’m cautious. They’ve had 4 big winning streaks so far this season (5, 5, 7 & 4) only to follow that up with big losing streaks.
    I am optimistic though, they really handled the Spurs and last night was impressive.
    D was on point and the offense had a nice flow to it. Open shots galore.
    If (and it’s a big if) they can beat the Lakers tomorrow, well my optimism changes to low level euphoria.

  • IAMORANGE4EVER

    Collins not a good choice for COY this year, because Sixers will fall back and the Knicks will win the Atlantic. I guarantee it.

  • http://www.reverbnation.com/tray24 T-Ray

    Dark
    They’re not beating the Lakers and yes thats my LA pride talking.
    But in all seriousness I think with Haywood out and the speed of Sessions this game will be an easy win.

  • IAMORANGE4EVER

    If there were an Interim Coach of the Year Award, I think Mike Woodson (3-0) would have a good shot at winning it this year.

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-talk/2011 Diesel

    What about Stan Van Gundy? Keeping a team in third place during all the Dwight drama is not easy.

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    T-Ray: it’s not Sessions that worries the Mavs coaching staff. Last game in Dallas, Kobe chucked for 3 quarters, then the snake adjusted to Marions excellent D and started passing to the bigs in the last few mins that resulted in easy baskets.
    If Marion is still injured, Kobe’s going for blood, i predict 25 chucks.
    Come to think of it, not so bad since Pau/Bynum are the key to beating Dallas.
    Who knows really. We shall see.

  • http://www.yahoo.com The Fury

    see..there’s no reason for Rose to jack up 20+ shots a game..

  • http://www.reverbnation.com/tray24 T-Ray

    Yea I here on that cuz that last game was ugly for the most part. Then Kobe started playing within the “offense”. Oh and if Marion is out then yea Kobe is going to have a field day. I’m excited for the game should be interesting.

  • http://www.yahoo.com The Fury

    Fearless Prediction: Dallas back-to-back..how’s that sound Dark??

  • IAMORANGE4EVER

    @TheFury I agree, but I also understand Rose like to get his. lol

  • http://www.reverbnation.com/tray24 T-Ray

    Fury I think we all knew for the most part that he doesn’t need to jack up that many shots. It’s just some random commenters on here who are Rose supporters tend to make the argument that he doesn’t have help. Those are the same people who said LeBron had tons of help in Cleveland.

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    @ The Fury (nice handle btw): u mean back2back TITLES?
    Oh man, even i wouldn’t go that far yet.
    Trend is looking up though, Dirk’s knee is sleeve-free and his shots are dropping, Roddy has taken over the Terry role, the bigs are pretty athletic and combine to make up for Chandler’s loss, especially Wright (great addition).
    Now if the pouting diva and JET-with-cracks-in-his-wings would join in on the act, this could get interesting.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Every time I see Odom, I’m reminded of a great line from Frasier where his brother is trying to get him to accept the fact that he lost his job. “Frasier. You’re not famous anymore.”

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    People are retarded about Chicago. The PG’s for the team combined to shoot 21 shots last night. Talk about being dumb, how can you complain about Derrick Rose shooting 20 shots when the PG’s just did that last night? And do you really think these guys would be able to score at this efficient of a clip in the playoffs? (when the value of having a guy like Rose is really on display) – Orange might be right that Thibs is the most important member of the Bulls, but don’t be stupid in thinking they are just as good or in the same ball park as a team without Rose as they are with him. (And I got in the opposite discussion in here not even 2 weeks ago for saying the Bulls are a playoff team without Derrick Rose) smh.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Jahmai

    Thibodeau is the COY, Bulls are playing terrific without Drose (Portland game notwithstanding), maybe they would be able to get past the 1st round, depending on which opponent they draw, but they’re absolutely NOT a contender (if we’re talking about championships)without Rose, anyone who doubts this fact is delusional.

  • http://www.yahoo.com The Fury

    @Dark…lol i forgot to type “Titles”…but I hope the Spurs get it this year before Timmy retires.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Why are we talking about Lakers vs Mavs. We got another Texas team to face first. Dirk was sick last night. Crazy thing is K-Love still played as well or better than him. Love haters are going to be eating words real soon here. Love would be putting up 20+ and 13+ on a championship contender. He is the real deal and people are going to have to start giving up their favorite PF as being the best soon because this dude is a baller. The only thing that worries me about him is will he be able to score efficiently in the playoffs. That’s the only thing I wonder. He will rebound like crazy and he will score, but will it be efficient is the question. No PF has played anywhere near his level this year. Not one.
    -Oh, side note, Alonzo Gee played Point Center for the Warriors for stretches of the game…. It was kinda funny. It worked a little bit too.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    He won’t be in the playoffs.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Slick Ric

    The bulls are winning with the sixers formula earlier in the year, just a more veteran team, and dare I say, better coach.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Slick Ric

    Look at iamorange4ever, I wonder will he still be commenting, if the knicks start losing again, hmmm?

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Agreed. This year.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Thibs has to be the best coach the NBA has since PJax and Greg Pop. The guy doesn’t take nonsense from anyone, there was a point in yesterday’s game when Howard scored on two straight possessions against Noah and Thibs called a TO to bench Noah and insterted Asik in the lineup. Name another coach in the NBA (apart from Pop) that would have the balls to treat one of his best players like that? The guy holds everyone accountable and treats his best player the same way he treats the 12-13th guy on the bench. Gotta respect a coach like that in this day and age of coaches kissing player’s a**es.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    well Lakeshow, this year is what people are tlaking about. Nobody says Kevin Love isn’t the best PF in the NBA next year lol

  • IAMORANGE4EVER

    Look at slick ric, I wonder where he was at while I was posting here during the Knicks most recent 6 game losing streak before “coach” D’Antoni finally “resigned” and Coach Woodson stepped in to lead the Knicks on their current 3 game winning streak? Hmmmmmmmmmmm!

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Lake, so you don’t care that the supposed best PF is shooting 44% from the field? I’m not hating, just pointing out how far the game has come that it is okay for the best PF to display such inefficency from the field and scored a majority of his points from the perimeter compared to the 80s and 90s when PFs dominanted on the block and shot in the mid to low 50s.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    I like that nbk. You’d be a good politician. lol… Honestly see them being a top 5 team in the West next year though. I also see K-Love becoming the unanimous “Best PF in the game.” Time will tell of course.

    -JTaylor, Agreed my dude. He is a phenomenal coach. Absolutely phenomenal.

    -Orange, your incorrigible. I like that about you. lol

  • Paul H

    He has been shooting around 48 % during this 10 or 15 game tear he has been on. I’d be more than happy with that. He’s even starting to develop that elite scorer swagger were he just KNOWS he Is going to score.

  • Paul H

    Love that Is.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    i don’t doubt he takes over as undisputed “best PF in the game” BUT you will not see me give him that title until he does something in the playoffs. If say Minnesota draws LAL next season (i see them as like a 6 seed, LA as a 3) and Love gets destroyed by Pau and Drew are you really going to care about his 25 and 15 during the RS?

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    I do care Taylor. That combined with defense make him a flawed player. He doesn’t need to be a high percentage shooter, because he shoots so many 3′s and jump shots it’s expected that he is going to be lower than say Zach Randolf. His TSP(true shooting) is the highest of all Allstar and a top PF’s. He is also scoring 5 PPG more than the next PF. Scoring more usually equates to lower percentage. So basically I can distort it to look like it’s not that bad, but it is. One thing though; what PF in the 80′ and 90′s shot as many 3′s and made as many threes and Love?

    My point Taylor is that even with the flaws he has he is still the best night in and night out. Not saying he is the unquestioned best PF, but he is for sure top 3 and I wouldn’t blame anyone for taking him higher.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    I don’t have him as top 3. I’ll take Dirk, Bosh, Pau and Aldridge over him.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Your hatching eggs too soon nbk. He hasn’t seen the playoffs so i’m not going to defend how he may or may not play in the playoffs. He is the regular season best PF is what i’m claiming right now. I think he will be fine in the playoffs, but I have seen stranger things than a first time Playoff PF not playing to well. I wish we weren’t a year away from seeing what he will do in the playoffs though. That’s a long time. He seems to be a hard worker and adds things to his game in the off season so I expect the best K-Love we have seen next year also. Similar numbers, except better FG% and some new moves along with improved defensive ability. That’s my guess anyway.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Well Carlos Boozer is a top 5 PF in the regular season, stat wise. Does that help illustrate my reasoning?

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Lake, I think he’s in the Top 5.
    I would also take a healthy ZBO in the blink of an eye over KLove.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Pau has not had a single game that is in K-Loves top 10 games this season. He plays better defense and is more skilled offensively as far as smooth moves go, but Love has proved that he is better than Pau now. Aldridge can barely grab 8 rebounds on a team that needs him to rebound. He is better defensively, but Love is better offensively by a decent margin. BTW, I don’t know how much ya’ll have been watching Love, but I have caught about 20 T-Wolves games this year. He has some nice moves offensively. His hook shot is as good as LA’s. Their mid range game is equal. Love has got his card with the 3′s. He has developed a nice back to the basket game I didn’t see from him last year. Dude is improved form last year by a decent amount. Bosh is not better. He can’t even grab the measly amount of boards LA does. Dirk when playing at his best is by far the best PF. He has not been his best this year though.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Carlos Boozer isn’t top at anything… except the number of times the phrase “git dat Jo!” has been yelled.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    I honestly don’t give a flying sh*t about their rebounding average. Aldridge and Bosh have and take on way more defensive responsibility then Love. Bosh did average 23 and 12 in Toronto. And Aldridge has also proven a whole entire offense can be run through him, on a 48 win team. Love has been better this season then Aldridge for sure, but I still don’t think he’s a better player. Pau has already proven he’s the x-factor on a title team, (well one of 3 “x-factors” – Love has never even led a team to a record above .500 – stats = little without winning in my world)

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    the difference between Love and the guys I value more then him, all those guys have been the best player on a playoff team. Love hasn’t even been the best player on a team that wins more then it loses.

  • http://nyill.wordpress.com Enigmatic

    Hi?

  • Myung

    Not that either of them should or will win COY, but please don’t say Doug Collins deserves it if you don’t mention Larry Drew. Larry Drew lost one All Star for pretty much the entire year (Al Horford) and was without his other one (Joe Johnson) for big chunks of the season. He had to incorporate several new pieces (T-Mac, Willie Green, Pargo, Vlad Radmanovic), lost his best bench player (Jamal Crawford), is using a new starting PG in Teague (last year’s starters were Mike Bibby and then Kirk Hinrich), coached through the Josh Smith trade rumors, and still has the Hawks playing good ball. Again, I’m NOT saying he should win COY (Thibs should win it, hands down)… I don’t even like Larry Drew that much…AND I really think Doug Collins is a heck of a coach, to boot. I’m just saying, you guys who are getting all worked up about Doug Collins should keep in mind that he’s had a pretty healthy squad (unless you count Spencer Hawes to be a major loss) all year with crazy depth on the bench (Thad, Lou, and for most of the season, Evan Turner), compared to Larry Drew and the key injuries he’s had to deal with. As of today, both the Hawks and Sixers are 26-20 so if you’re mentioning Doug, you probably need to put Larry Drew ahead of him… and put them both well behind coach Thibs who is doing the best coaching job of any guy in the L by far.

  • Fat Lever

    Leave it to delusional Knicks fans to be this excited about a 3 game winning streak. Sixers will close out the Atlantic, with NY having to play Miami or Chicago. Game over.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    The 76ers are 1st in their division, after finishing 3rd last season, and their leading scorer is putting up 15.8PPG and he doesn’t start. Doug Collins to me, is the clear cut COY. Especially considering it’s basically been the same roster for 3 years, and their record has gone from 27-55, to 41-41, to 26-20. Without adding any significant pieces, Evan Turner is putting up a whopping 9points and 6 rebounds, he has had 5 good games, not a good season by any stretch.

  • Fat Lever

    NBK, 5 games is a good season if your name is Jeremy Lin. ESPN and the like had him pegged as the savior of NY.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Your right nbk, The Timber Wolves have always had soooo much talent, I don’t know how they don’t make the playoffs. The Blazers comparable talent, The Raptors back them the same. Love has had 4 years in the L now and he can’t take this phenomenal team to the playoffs. It’s shocking.

    Anyway back to reality. The T-Wolves SUCK. They always have sucked.(almost always) They have had terrible talent. On par with The Wizards this year was where the Wolves were last year and the year before. I wouldn’t expect LeBron James to take that team to a playoff 8th seed. This year they would have made the Playoffs with Rubio, but we all know what happened there. You better start giving a sh*t about rebounding. It’s only what PF’s get paid to do.

    - K-Love vs Lakers: 27-15
    - VS Your favorite PF in Portland he put up 29-16 on 54% FG
    - VS Your favorite PF 2 games later puts up 42-10 on 56% FG
    - VS Dirk in Dallas he put up 32-12 on 50%
    - VS Lakers again 33-13 on 60% FG
    - VS Dallas again 31-11 on 56% FG
    - VS the big bad BASH in Mia, he put up 25-12 on 53% FG

    …. He destroyed all these “great” defenders….

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Enig sighting.

  • IAMORANGE4EVER

    “I would also take a healthy ZBO in the blink of an eye over KLove,” said JTaylor21 Mar.20 at 2:18 pm. LMAO! That is absolutely priceless.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Bosh* not Bash lol..

  • riggs

    where at the delusional knicks fans? cause i think i see more people complaining about them than ACTUAL delusional knicks fans.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Atlanta has been at-least, a minimum of 6 games over .500 since 2008-09. I understand they lost Horford, but they have had Joe Johnson & Josh Smith (2 all star caliber players to Philadelphia’s 1) for every game but 6 TOTAL (46 of 46 games played for Smith, 40 of 46 for Joe Johnson). And adding Jeff Teague to the starting lineup, albeit him being “new” to the role, is an upgrade over Hinrich, it’s not like you replaced your PG’s from a year ago with a worse player, you actually got better. Losing Horford hurts, but not enough to make Larry Drew COY because of it.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    You don’t have to agree with me Lakeshow, you can say whatever you want about how Love has played against those guys. It’s not going to change my opinion. Love can put up 30 and 30 every night, if the Wolves don’t win more then they lose I DO NOT CARE about his stats. The best players make their teams win. Especially the best player at a position in the whole league. Bosh’s playoff team in Toronto is comparable to this Minnesota team. Gasols playoff team in Memphis, comparable. Aldrdidge’s team was more talented, but they were also injury riddled and their whole system changed mid-season, and they still won 48 games. You can argue whatever you want about this season, but I don’t really care, infact, I already admitted Love has been better during this regular season then Aldridge, did you notice that?

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Orange, what is so funny about that comment?

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    “You can state facts all you want i’m just going to ignore the hell outta all of them.” That’s what I just heard… That’s cool though, but when your talking about how dudes are so good defensively, but they are not able to even slow Love down at all… It looks kinda suspect. I’m down for a agree to disagree though. I’m all for waiting for Playoff success to crown players anything, but i’m saying it now. They are going to be in the playoffs and Love is going to be a beast and then everyone is going to have to turn on their old thoughts of who is the best PF. If your saying that his stats don’t translate into W’s that’s fine, but I strongly disagree. Where would the T-Wolves be without Love right now…. Think about that. They would be beyond bottom feeders not even fighting for a playoff spot. Once again I don’t think Love has the undisputed top spot right now. I think he is unarguably a top 3 PF though.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Love isn’t scoring in isolation. His stats against these guys aren’t about him destroying them. You just focusing on stats does not make what your saying factual information. You don’t even know if those guys were even guarding Love do you?

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Lake, I can’t believe that you used stats from head-to-head matchups to make your case as to why KLove’s the best PF. Come on son, you’re better than that. Head-to-head stats are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things because anyone could get up against great teams/players but it is what they do on those nights when no one is watching and there’s little to no motivation to perform at a high level that really tells the whole story.

  • Paul H

    I thought with the momentum the Wolves to finish a few games above 500 before Rubio went down. That Is a comparable record to the 05-06 Lakers, give or take a game or two. Would anyone argue against Kobe being the best Shooting guard In the League that season? Kobe was putting up monster stats on a team playing a few games above 500. and people still argue that he was robbed of an Mvp that season. Love’s support cast his first three years was TRAGIC. Hopefully If Rubio comes back unscathed and the Wolves can reel off 50 wins with Love still killing It he can get the credit he deserves.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    You have not watched Love. I repeat. You have not watched Love. 25+ of his 37 last night was scored in isolation. He loves isolation. He has become a very good iso scorer. You cannot have watched Love THIS year and not realize that he is a good iso scorer. He’s twice as good at iso scoring this year over last year. He improved that tremendously. Mostly by just improving his jump shot and getting a couple low block moves. He is an equal if not better iso scorer than LaMarcus A. is.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Where would the Timberwolves be without Nikola Pekovic? (11-10 with him as a Starter)
    .
    Where would the Timberwolves be without Ricky Rubio? (18-13 with him as a starter)
    .
    With Kevin Love is 43 games the Wolves are 22 and 21.
    .
    So is Kevin Love as the clear cut best player on his team, even the most important to them winning?

  • Myung

    nbk, i clearly said drew shouldn’t be COY. I know you love to argue with everyone on this board but if you’re going to argue with me, don’t put words in my mouth.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    And where were you when Kevin Love went 7-20 against the Kings and the Wolves lost 99 to 115? Or the 9-23 in the loss to Utah? These are teams they should beat, especially if Love is so great as an individual. It’s not like Minnesota is less talented then those teams. Especially Utah, who is built around low-post play, and has nobody in Kevin Love’s ball park down there.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    You said he deserved “Not that either of them should or will win COY, but please don’t say Doug Collins deserves it if you don’t mention Larry Drew” – I obviously believe Collins is the clear cut COY, which means you believe Larry Drew should be right in their with him which I disagree with. That’s what I was arguing, my bad for not wording that better.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Lakeshow, idk what your definition of a good isolation scorer is, but Kevin Love doesn’t shoot north of 41% from anywhere on the court outside 3 feet. That’s pretty inefficient in general. Not too mention, 58.3% of his points come off of assists. And I watch plenty Timberwolves games. Plenty.

  • Myung

    You said: “The 76ers are 1st in their division, after finishing 3rd last season” (I’m sure this has NOTHING to do with the fact that Boston isn’t as dominant as they’ve been in the past). You wrote: “and their leading scorer is putting up 15.8PPG and he doesn’t start.” (What does that have to do with anything in terms of Doug’s effectiveness as a coach? They also have 6 players in double figures and Meeks and Turner are just below 10 a game. Lou is their leading scorer because the team is extremely balanced. There isn’t anything to read into that about coaching.) You wrote: “Doug Collins to me, is the clear cut COY.” (More clear cut than Thibs? Right.) You wrote: “Especially considering it’s basically been the same roster for 3 years, and their record has gone from 27-55, to 41-41, to 26-20.” (That’s exactly what the Hawks did from 2005 to 2010, which is incrementally get better once young pieces start to gel. It isn’t rocket science. Once a young core plays with each other over a number of years, the team’s record generally improves, whether it’s coached by a great coach like Collins or a dud like Mike Woodson… and as I mentioned above, I think Coach Collins is a really good coach and I respect the heck out of him AND I DON’T even like Larry Drew… I’m merely saying, if someone is going to mention Doug Collins, I feel like you also need to mention LD because his team has the exact same record as the Sixers, plays in a tougher division, and has had to deal with injuries to his two best players).

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    KLove’s last 4 gms before last night’s gem vs GSW.
    vs PHX- 30pts and 7rbs on 11-23 shooting (5-9 3pts) What a PF is doing taking 9 3pts is beyond me.
    vs UTA- 25pts and 16rbs on 9-23 shooting (2-8 3pts)
    vs LAL- 27pts and 15rbs on 11-24 shooting (2-6 3pts)
    vs SAC- 21pts and 11rbs on 7-20 shooting (1-5 3pts)
    Apart from rebounding and scoring, the man has been average to below average in every other aspect of the game (efficency, defense, passing and leading team to wins).

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    To chime in on the whole Love thing, I was at the Wolves-Kings game the other day and Love had a very good stat line (21-11, I think?) but he did NOT help the Wolves one bit. I was watching the game thinking, “Wow, where are these stats coming from? He sure isn’t earning them.” He is a stat monster, but he doesn’t contribute much to a team winning (similar to Michael Redd, 05 LeBron, Al Jefferson, Kevin Martin, etc). I still think he’s a top 3 PF, but I mostly agree with nbk: win some games fool.

  • Myung

    Just because YOU believe Doug Collins should be COY doesn’t mean I believe Larry Drew should be in the running for the award. That’s your distorted logic talking. I DID put LD ahead of Doug Collins in my own personal rankings, yes, but I also think they’re probably 6th and 7th in terms of coaches who should even be in the discussion (which means, really, they shouldn’t even be in the discussion). LD and Collins both had their teams playing really great ball (remember: the Hawks were leading the East early on and Philly was #1 for a short period as well… the Hawks were ahead of Miami and Orlando in early FEBRUARY… look it up), but that was because both teams had cake schedules early on. The schedules caught up to both teams. A lot of people also nabbed Nate McMillan as the early favorite for COY, and now he’s jobless. This isn’t about what you did in January; it’s about the entire season. Tom Thibodeau should be COY, hands down. He’s won with and without Derrick Rose. He’s got the Bulls at 38-10, which is 3 games better than Miami and 2.5 games higher than the West leading Thunder. Unless the Bulls just collapse, I don’t see how he doesn’t win it again this season. And again, I think Collins is a better coach, over all, than LD. I respect his mind for the game, and his track record is pretty stellar. But this isn’t a lifetime achievement award. It’s about the 2011-12 season.

  • Paul H

    I think that the T-Wolves are a much better team with Rubio In the Line Up because he facilitates the whole offense so well. But If you are going to argue that If the roles were reversed and the T-wolves lost LOVE for the rest of the season they would tank. No question. I don’t think they will be that bad with rubio out. With him I had them pegged as a dangerous 8th or 7 seed. When Love Is the undisputed center piece on a 55-60 win team (which i expect If they keep their core intact In the next two seasons) It won’t be an argument anymore. I’m with Lakeshow here I have watched a lot of T-wolves games this season and the improvement In his game has been lights out. His post moves have a quickness and fluidity now, he hustles every damn ball and he scores from wherever he pleases. He may not be garnering many more assists but his passing Is much improved also. All he needed was the supporting cast.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    And JT, I have no problem with the 3-point shootout champion taking 3′s. Do you mind when Rashard Lewis, Ryan Anderson, Matt Bonner, and Dirk Nowtizki shoot 3′s?

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    -I agree with you. Pekovic is the best front court player on the Wolves. Ricky Rubio is by far their best player and Love is just a stat filler. I’m in complete agreement… Wow, you dumbed this one down big time homie. Can’t believe you think Pekovic id better than Love and same with Rubio… Wow….

    -Did you not notice that those games I brought up weren’t his ‘best’ games, but rather the ones where he played against the PF’s that you think are better than him (especially defensively). He ate Aldridge alive every time they matched up.

    -I’m going to say it one more time just so everyone knows. nbk, has not watched K-Love this year. He has no idea what kind of player he is. That much is obvious.

    -Where was I when K-Love had bad games? Umm, in my office here at work typing on Slam about how he needs to up his FG% to be considered the best… I been here. I’ll be here. I’ll be the one that was right at the end also. The Lakers lost to the Pistons and the Wizards back to back games. Don’t talk to me about “beating bad teams.” 90% of basketball players play up to their competition. Did you not know this? There’s reasons why crappy teams beat good teams and you can’t just blame it on Love. Or Kobe. Or Bron when it happens.

    -Anywho, I’m done with this one. Haha. Good convo fellas.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    What does Philadelphia winning despite having their best scorer playing only 26 minutes a night off-the-bench have to do with Doug Collins? Really? You realize Philadelphia has the #1 defense in the league right? Better then Chicago? Their starting Center is Spencer Hawes, not Joakim Noah. And Spencer has played a whopping 17 games this season, Joakim (a much much better player) has played 46 of 48. Please tell me you see the significance of having the best defense in the league without a dominant defensive center? Hell without a starting caliber center for more then half their games? Sh*t Philadelphia doesn’t even have a player who averages more then 8 rebounds a game, and they are the BEST defense in the league!
    .
    Conversely, Atlanta has 2 players who would be the best player on the 76ers, and they are coming off of 47, 53, and 44 win seasons with the same core of players. The difference between what Philadelphia is doing under Dough Collins compared to what Atlanta is doing under Larry Drew is pretty damn significant imo.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Lakeshow, if you want to not read what I say, then I am not going to respond to you.
    .
    So is Kevin Love as the clear cut best player on his team, even the most important to them winning?
    .
    Read the words in that sentence, then go back to your last comment, and read your sh*tty attempt at sarcasm again.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    As usual, I agree with nbk about the Doug Collins vs Larry Drew debate. For COY, I’ll still take Pop though. If anyone wants my rationale, I’ll give it, but I’m sure most of you can piece it together.

  • http://nyill.wordpress.com Enigmatic

    Philly has best defense in NBA?
    Huh?
    Maybe in one category, but overall I’d say Bulls.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Cosign Enig. Bulls defense is the reason they win without Rose.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    What Doug Collins is doing is making a team of role players (even their best player, Andre Iguodala is a sooper ROLE player) into a division champ, and the best defense in the NBA. What Tom Thibodeau is doing, is repeating his success from last season, when he won COY. So ask yourself, is a team improving immensely, especially in a coached area of the game (defense) more significant then a team doing exactly what they did last season, despite being HEALTHIER? Doug Collins is even more clearly the COY to me then he was before this conversation started.

  • Myung

    This is Larry drews second season as head coach. In addition, much of the core of mike woodsons hawks (bibby, jamal crawford, mo evans, flip Murray) is no longer here. This award isn’t about the past. It’s about today. As of today, ld has done a better job, imo, this season, than Collins. But for the third time, it’s a moot point because neither guy should be in the coy discussion.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Philadelphia has the highest Defensive Rating in the league (points per 100 possessions),
    .
    They allow the least amount of points in the league
    .
    They force their opponent to shoot the lowest FG% in the league
    .
    They also have the highest defensive efficiency rating 94.6 to Chicago at 95.9
    .
    They also have a higher defensive rebounding rate then Chicago.
    .
    And it’s not like you can chalk it up too pace, both teams play at the same pace (92.3 for Phi, 92.0 for Chi). Basically Philadelphia measures out to be the best defense in the NBA no matter how you look at it.

  • Paul H

    One of Love’s most overlooked attributes, one I have not seen mentioned on any debate about him, he gets to the free throw line 8 and a half times a game (good for second In the L) and converts 82% of them. You cannot put a price on that kind of dependability In the playoffs from your starting power forward and best player. I really see no reason why he WOULDN’T perform In the playoffs.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Chicago is winning because of their defense, and because of what they do on the offensive glass. Their bigs do work on both ends. This is under appreciated.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Did not know that nbk. My opinion has changed.

  • http://nyill.wordpress.com Enigmatic

    You don’t think it’s even more impressive that Thibs is doing what he did last year this time without his starting backcourt for a significant amount of time?
    And if Thibs is simply duplicating his success from last year, when he won the COY, why couldn’t he repeat as COY?
    COY award is always about the most compelling story or the coach who improved his teams’ wins even though their roster clearly improved as well.
    What’s so wrong about awarding a damn good coach two years in a row?
    Jerry Sloan deserved at least one, AT LEAST.
    But the league was more concerned with awarding it to the coach with the “cool story, bro”…

  • Myung

    Well Im sure three or four people who actually have votes agree with you, Nbk. And congrats to Doug Collins for winning the prestigious Nbk coy award for 2012.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    haha am i wrong in any way?

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Myung, who is your COY? Out of curiosity.

  • Myung

    you’re never wrong, nbk.

  • Myung

    Caboose, I wrote like 3 or 4 times today that Tom Thibodeau should win COY. haha.

  • Paul H

    I think the Bulls sans Rose are pretty close to the Sixers. I wouldn’t have a problem with either Thibs or Collins.

  • http://nyill.wordpress.com Enigmatic

    COME AT ME, BRO!!!!!!!!!!

  • http://nyill.wordpress.com Enigmatic

    Of course, THAT ONE posts….sigh…

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    LOL at Myung, haha, The Hawks honestly surprised me this year. They have been exactly who they should be imo.
    -Paul H, The FT’s are huge. I agree completely that K-Love will perform well in the playoffs. I am concerned about his FG% if he gets too jump shot happy more than anything though.
    -Caboose you could save some time by not commenting here and we’ll just assume you agree with nbk. I’m just playing man! You bring good stuff to the table.
    -I’m on the Doug Collins for COY bandwagon. Thibs deserves the hell out of the award, but many people do. Doug has done more with less than anyone else. That means allot to me.
    - Last thing, Bulls D >> Sixers D. I’ll pull an nbk and just say f*ck the facts. Bulls D is incredible.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Enig, YOU MAD BRO?! haha, poor kid stuck out in Alaska. You ought just send us letter via the post office about your opinions on matters.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Caboose, yes I do. Especially with a guy like Dirk, who’s such a beast from mid-range and at times from the high-mid post area.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Taylor, he’s a beast from deep too. I love 3 pointers from anyone who can hit them above 35%.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Derrick Rose has played in 34 of 48 games.
    Joakim Noah has played in 46 of 48.
    Carlos Boozer has played in 48 of 48.
    Luol Deng has played in 39 of 48 (often hurt though)
    .
    No look at last season, the Bulls are healthier this year, and winning at roughly the same clip.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Enigmatic, you’re better off sending an enigma code. Get it?

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    “OK here it goes “You don’t think it’s even more impressive that Thibs is doing what he did last year this time without his starting backcourt for a significant amount of time? And if Thibs is simply duplicating his success from last year when he won the COY, why couldn’t he repeat as COY? COY award is always about the most compelling story or the coach who improved his teams’ wins even though their roster clearly improved as well. What’s so wrong about awarding a damn good coach two years in a row? Jerry Sloan deserved at least one, AT LEAST. But the league was more concerned with awarding it to the coach with the “cool story, bro”…*takes a gentlemanly bow*”

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Lake, I’ve never been a fan of the 3 pointer. I feel like it dilutes the game and has played a role in the disapperance of true big men. When an atheltic freak like Tracy McGrady attempts damn near 8 3s a game as a 24yr old and the only team in the NBA with a great center takes the most 3s in the NBA, you know there’s a problem.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    That was Enigmatic’s argument to me, if nobody figured that out.

  • dazzy

    Co-sign riggs on the ‘delusional’ Knick fans comment.

  • Paul H

    I think It really depends on the % a player Is shooting at and the volume. Vince Crater used to infuriate me by his 3rd or 4th year, he spent so much time trying to prove people who pigeon-holed him as JUST a dunker that he fell In love with outside shooting. He could drive and rack on ANYBODY. It is a talent when your big man can score inside and out. For all of the talk of Dirk being the best shooting big man ever he only really became totally unstoppable when he stopped living at the 3 point line….wait what way am I arguing here?! i think I have confused myself….lol

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Good conversation folks

  • Myung

    The nba season has about 20 games left. So clearly a lot can happen between now and game 66. That being said, since we’re arguing about a hypothetical COY award that is given out on March 20, 2012, let’s go with what we know as of TODAY: Doug Collins has his team at a respectable 26-20. Thibs has his Bulls at 38-10 (11 games ahead of Philly). Coach Spo is 33-11. Scott Brooks has his team at 34-11, and coach Pop has his team at 29-14. Doug Collins is a great coach. I’d put up in the top 12 among coaches I’ve seen in the past 25 years I’ve been following the League. He could probably coach laps around Larry Drew or Scott Brooks and Mike Brown. But this isn’t T-Ball, where every kid gets a trophy. Why reward mediocrity? Why give a trophy to the good story? That’s what magazine articles are about. That’s what blogs are for. COY awards need go to go either the coach whose team has the best record, or at the very least, his team should be among the top 5 teams in the NBA, right? Again, I like Doug Collins. I have no particular affinity towards Thibodeau. I’m just being objective… and coach Thibs has done a remarkable coaching job this season and if the season ended today, I don’t see how anyone else deserves this award.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Taylor, I just don’t see it as a problem. If you hit 3 of those 8 that’s good ball in my mind. Sol good though, difference of opinion on what you like in your ball players. You think Orlando can be better than they are? They have been a real good team without having a stellar supporting cast. I think they do an excellent job of utilizing their talents to score points. Jameer is a real good 3 point shooter. J-Rich, also real good. Ryan Anderson? F*cking incredible. Rashard Lewis, one of the greatest 3 point shooters ever. (wow weird to say that) JJ Reddick? “The greatest shooter of all time” lol or whatever that Better Basketball video says. Hedo also. You utilize those guys. IMO utilizing them means they are going to shoot some friggin 3′s. Now if big baby steps out….. Orlando, we got problems.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Philadelphia is on the bottom half of the league in terms of skill. Yet, they are winning their division and leading the league in every defensive stat. Their really isn’t much else to highlight how effective a coach is then that. No big time offensive talent, they are winning with team work and by playing hard. Both again, highlight the coach.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    So you see nothing wrong with the fact that DHoward attempts 13.7 shots a game while the team attempts 26.5 3s a game? So it’s a good thing that the Magic take twice as many 3s as the shots Howard takes aka the most efficeent shot in basketball?

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    My bad Myung, chalk it up to laziness. If you really want a COY discussion, you can throw SVG in there, for sure. The recent losses notwithstanding, he’s kept Orlando pretty disciplined in spite of the Dwight stuff.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    My knock against Collins, nbk, is that at the pace Philly is at, they’d win about 46 games in an 82 game season. I’m sure plenty here agree that 46-36 isn’t a record that screams COY.

  • Myung

    i agree, caboose. SVG’s in the discussion. they’re the only team (apologies to philly, Indiana, Boston, and my squad, Atlanta) who has a shot at crashing the party that is the ECF. btw, if the award were handed out 1.5 months ago, collins, nate mcmillan, and larry drew would be in the top 5 for candidates this year. oh, what a difference 45 days makes in a shortened season.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    And my argument is that your completely ignoring their roster. You put a go-to scorer on the 76ers they win 55ish games in a normal season. Sh*t, want to see how important (1) great offensive player is too a team? Look at the Hornets. And then look at their defense the last 2 years. The fact that Doug Collins can win this much (and improve the defense this much) in just 2 years (some people argued he should have got COY last year, after he improved Phili 14 games in the same situation) is alarming. It’s more alarming that nobody seems to notice how significant it is.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    I agree Myung. Though even I can’t bet on my Magic making the ECF.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    I agree that Collins has done an exceptional job with what he has, but, I feel just like the MVP award, team record plays a big part in who wins COY. For that reason I just can’t see Collins getting it.

  • Myung

    Mike Woodson’s wins as a coach in Atlanta: 13, 26, 30, 37, 47, and 53. Pretty impressive, right? Hmm. Or maybe it was the fact that the same young core was able to learn from its mistakes and gel as a unit over time? A lot of teams have progressed and increased their win total in successive years, due to better chemistry and continuity. Mike Woodson was universally hated in Atlanta because he was a clueless offensive coach, and he was eventually fired. I’m not saying Doug Collins is Mike Woodson. Doug Collins is a heck of a coach. But don’t give all the credit to him, man. Those PLAYERS have gotten better over the years… that’s what young teams do.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    The voters are going to give it to Pop i believe. Mainly because he’s done this 2 years in a row, and had a legit argument for it last year.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Thibs has to be the COY for me. He has the bulls at 38-10 and that is with Rose missing 14gms (deciding factor).

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Doug Collins has coached the team for 1-1/2 seasons Myung not 6. And the season before they won 27, they won 41. It’s not like they had what, 4 tries under .500 before they started improving. They went to 27 wins, hired Doug Collins, added nobody, and improved 14 games. They went from 24th in defense, to 7th, to 1st. In 3 years. Not too mention their offense has also improved every year under Collins, just not as significantly.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    A case could be made that Adelman deserves just as much recognition as Collins then…(I think I’m just starting stuff now).

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Under Mike Woodson, the Hawks improvement was minimal. ANd it happened to coincide with the development of a very good offensive player (something Philadephia completely lacks), Al Horford. Plus they had Joe Johnson and Josh Smith. that’s 3 players who would all be the best player in Philadelphia. yet, they never had a defense remotely close to what Philadelphia has.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    The wolves are under .500 and have done nothing significant as a team. Isn’t being the COY about getting your team to perform at the highest of their abilities? Do any of you really think this Philadelphia 76ers team can be better then they are now without adding anyone?

  • http://www.optimabbc.be Max

    Would coach X get COY if he would have gotten the Wizards to the playoffs this year with a record of 30-36?

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Like I said before, John Lucas III > Derrick Rose.

  • Myung

    you missed my point. I don’t care if Collins has been there 1.5 years or 6 years or 10. My point is, teams (particularly young ones) tend to improve NATURALLY over time, if given the time to learn from its mistakes and gel. We give so much credit to coaches, and while coaches ARE important, they’re not nearly as important as the players. The young sixers have naturally improved because of the continuity they were afforded. Yes, collins should get credit for expediting their improvement. He is a GREAT coach. I like Doug Collins. But you’re giving dude way too much credit and not giving his players nearly enough. again, theyre 26-20, dude.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Rose has missed 14gms, Deng 9gms, Watson 17gms, and Rip 32gms yet the Bulls have the best record in the L by a good margin. That is more impressive to me than what Collins, Pop or any other coach (apart from Lionel Hollis) has done so far this season.

  • Paul H

    Anyone see the All-Flop team piece on Espn? The Ginobli-Raja Bell video Is hilarious!

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Then why haven’t the Pistons improved? Or the Kings? Or Milwuakee who has become worse? How about Golden State? Houston? These teams have all had the same core (up until this trade deadline) for a few seasons, yet they didn’t improve even a little. The teams that have improved immensely, the Clippers – Chicago – OKC – even Cleveland have all added great offensive talents. There is almost never a time a team improves by playing better as a team without adding a go-to offensive player (or really any significant players). When it does happen, it’s a product of the coach. It’s beyond difficult to motivate a team of guys who are bad offensively to still play hard and win as a team through defense and ball movement especially if they team was already a big time loser. Doug Collins is the only coach in the league outside of George Karl (who has a much more offensively talented roster) to improve a team of role players to the point of being in the running for the playoffs with homecourt advantage. Except Doug Collins had no Melo Drama to motivate his team, he has nothing but his system and ability to get the most out of his guys.
    .
    They are 26-20, without a guy averaging 16PPG. They have no crunch time scorer, so they literally have to win through execution and effort. The only 2 things a coach has control of. lol there is no overselling how important Doug Collins is to the 76ers. Without him, they would be a doormat.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Taylor, Tyson Chandler is the most efficient shooter in basketball. Your asking me why I care to bring this up right? Well here’s why. I’m not saying Dwight is Chandler. Cause he’s not. He’s much better, but the reason the Magic shoot twice as many threes per game as Dwight shoots FG’s is because of a couple reasons:
    - 1. Dwight scores at a high percentage FG wise, but those aren’t jump shots and iso dribble drives. Those are allot of lobs and easy dunks that create that high percentage. Therefore his real FG% with one on one moves and iso scores is not represented by his actual FG%. We all know and admit that Dwight is not a ‘crunch time’ guy. He can’t get his shots off in the waning moments of the 4th as easily and at high a clip as he does throughout the flow of the game.
    - 2. Is the reason I already posted. The Magic are one of, if not the best, 3 point shooting team ever. So you play a style that caters to those 2 strengths. Dwight scoring efficiently throughout the flow of the game and 3 pointers shot by great three point shooters.
    I know you and I feel differently, but that’s my reasoning for why it’s okay for them to shoot so many threes. I would like to see Dwights attempts closer to 16, but IMO that is more on him than Van Gundy. If he was Shaq on the block they wouldn’t be shooting that many threes… Know what I mean?

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Rip Jtaylor, you are really going to argue that Richard Hamilton is a big part of the Bulls success? Last season they did the same damn thing they are doing this year, despite Joakim Noah missing 36 games, & Carlos Boozer missing 23. Nobody should be surprised they are still winning without Rose at the rate they are, (almost half of their losses on the whole season are without him for goodness sakes). The Bulls are a playoff team, with or without Rose. If anything, Rose’s value to the team is being overblown. It makes no sense to say what Doug Collins is doing with that Philadelphia team is not COY worthy, but what Thibs is doing for the second year in a row with the reigning league MVP, top 10 center, top 10 PF, & top 10 SF is.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Also through in this into the equation. Where would the Bulls be with Doug Collins coaching? Where would the Sixers be with Thibs? I honestly think Collins would have the Bulls right where they are at, where as I don’t think Thibs would have gotten as much out of the Sixers as Collins has. I guess there is no one of judging this so maybe it’s useless fodder, but Collins has really got that team to play his way and to love it. Not that the Bulls don’t love their coach and style of play, but they have considerable amounts more talent that they are working with. Collins has done more with less = COY… IMO

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    nbk, once again Boozer ain’t “Top” of anything that isn’t, hair oil related, or having kids that root for the Heat.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    i mean i get the joke, but it really doesn’t tickle me. I’d still rather have Boozer then most of the other 4′s in the league. Just not for 13 million dollars a year.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    So you would take Boozer over all these 4′s:
    -Josh Smith
    -David Lee
    -Luis Scola
    -Amare Stoudemire
    -Kevin Garnett
    ??

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    nbk, I understand where you’re coming from and I agree to a certain extent but no other coach in the NBA (apart from Pop) gets more out of his players and holds them to a higher standard than Thibs. The bulls play every game like it’s their last and Thibs is the reason for that. There are coaches out there with as much talent as the Bulls (D’Antoni with NY and Spo with MIA) yet those teams lose games they shouldn’t from time to time. The bulls don’t do that. The heat with two of the best players in the world and a Top-15 player should have a better record than Thibs’ Bulls but for the second year in the row, they don’t. You can’t tell me that Thib’s consistency and the fact that he holds every player accountable isn’t the biggest factor.
    Also, I never said that Collins isn’t COY worthy. He’s in my Top-5 along with Hollins, Pop, Vogel and Thibs.

  • Paul H

    Carlos Boozer actually played pretty well his four postseasons with the Jazz, upping his points and rebounds every one….It’s not like he Is incapable of having a good postseason run…

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    JT: Vogel over SVG? Just out of curiosity.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    -Dirk
    -Z-Bo
    -Love
    -LA
    -Pau Gasol
    -Chris Bosh
    -Blake Griffin
    -Amare
    -Josh Smith
    -Serge Ibaka
    -David Lee
    -Paul Milsap
    -Tim Duncan
    -Kevin Garnett
    I would probably take all these Power Forwards over Boozer. Not even from a contractual stand point either. Purely performance based.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Scola and Lee yes.
    -
    Amar’e, most the time, depending on the roster but not always.
    .
    The other guys? No

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Taylor, not true. Collins gets as much or more out of his players as I have seen from any coach before. Pop and Thibs have talent. Loads of it. Collins does not have that talent yet has a very competitive, scary squad. That Philly team was garbage a couple years ago. Collins has turned them into a real team.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Lake, come on now. Everyone knows I’m not the biggest DHow fan but even I know he doesn’t just score off of “lobs and easy dunks”. His post game has improve to the point that you could go to him on a consistent basis. The man has come a long way from the days of being strictly a PnR player and the Magic haven’t rewarded him with the touches. Every respected talking head on TV points out the same things (ORL shoots too-many 3s and doesn’t give Howard enough low-post touches).
    I’m not saying he should be getting the same amount of touches Prime Shaq used to get but he should be around 17-18 attempts a game like every other go-to player in the NBA.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Collins doesn’t have as much talent as Thibs and Pop but he does have talent on that Philly team. Everyone is acting like he’s coaching the Bobcats. Iggy/LWill/JHoliday/TYoung/ETurner/EBrand/SHawes sounds like a talented team to me. What he lacks is a great player but the talent is there.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    I pretty much agree with errrything you just said Taylor. We just differ on our thoughts on 3 point shooting. To me it sounds like you don’t like 3 point shots period. Where as I am saying that they have an appropriate time and place, but the game should dictate that. If Howard is on fire and dominating he should get 20+ shot attempts. If he’s not you gotta go with your other strengths. For the Magic it’s 3 point shooting.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    JTaylor I don’t disagree about Thibs and what he does. I just don’t think he’s been the best coach this season, that to me is clearly (again, to me) is Doug Collins. Then Poppovich. I also just don’t really value Rose as highly as everyone else seems to in terms of the Bulls success. As long as they have their bigs and Thibs or Rose ad Thibs they are going to be a top team, that affects my view on the COY race. Thibodeau might be the best coach in the league. But that’s a different convo. Yada.mean?

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Collins lacks anyone close to an All Star. Iggy is technically close, but we all know he isn’t anything but a great role player. Everyone else on the team would be lucky to be in the rotation on a contending team. He has a bunch of mediocre talent playing like they are good. Don’t get it the other way around. I think you are overrating the talent of the Sixers if you think that they “should” be a good team.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Caboose, because of DHoward. As long as DHoward is on the floor, the magic on a given night can beat any team. Also, SVG is overrated to me. This is the guy that sits there and allows his team to chuck up 30+ 3s while the best big man in basketball looks on.
    nbk, makes perfect sense. Kind of like the MVP race, at times it doesn’t go to the best player but goes to the player doing the most with least.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Exactly JT, exactly.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Lake, maybe I’m overrating the talent on that sixer team but I don’t think they would be a “bad” team without Collins. Collins is a great coach but they are only 6gms over .500. That’s good but not as impressive as y’all make it out to be.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    I think without Collins they would be the pistons comparatively speaking

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Remember the squad hasn’t change since 2009.
    -2009 record: 27-55
    -2010 record: (Doug Collins takes over) 41-41
    -2011 record: So far 27-20
    -He’s definitely worthy of the award. As is, Pop, Thibs, but he is doing something with that team we haven’t seen before. It’s a “stand out year” for the Sixers. The Bulls are playing better than they should, but none of this is surprising from them. Same with the Spurs. The Sixers are a little surprising to me.

  • Myung

    So the nba coy is for the coach who does more with less. Ah ok. I get it now. Silly me.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Just read this on NBA.com; The Bulls are 8-1 in games in which their opponent has at least one day of rest and they do not. That includes road wins over the Clippers, Knicks and Spurs, and home wins over the Suns and Pacers. That’s a crazy stat and points to Thibs ability to get his players to dig even deeper.
    nbk, damn. I wouldn’t go that far but I think they would hover around .500 without Collins.

  • Myung

    If your argument is that Collins is 1. A good coach and 2. He’s getting the most out of his players and 3. No one has won 26 games with less, you’re preaching to the choir. Again, i respect Doug Collins. I always respected great coaches (RIP chuck daly, Rick carlisle, rudy t, mike fratello, hubie, etc). Doug Collins is a great teacher of the game, and i like him a lot. But unless Nbk was awarded sole control of awarding the coy to the guy who “did the most with the least,” i am trying to figure out what this discussion is about. Coy 2012 is between pop and thibs and brooks and long shots svg and spo. Collins is the best among the next tier (hollins, adelman, drew)… But again… Congrats to Collins for winning the Nbk award. Im sure he’s flattered.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Myung, it should go to the coach who does the best job in that one season. Not the coach who continues to do what they were already doing. It’s why you never see repeat coach of the years. It’s why Jerry Sloan has zero COY awards. Phil Jackson only has 2. Yada yada yada. Are you playin dumb or is this passive aggressive attitude your new thing?

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Myung, your being snootie. Lol, I just wanted to use that word.
    There is no Blue Print to what equals a COY. Or a MVP. Or a MIP. Or a DMC. K I just threw that last one out there, lol, but what nbk, and I are saying in regards to COY is that it is more impressive what Collins is doing with less talent than what Thibs is doing with more talent.
    Both are extraordinary coaches, but Collins is making a crappy team good as opposed to Thibs making a great team greater.

  • http://www.nesn.com/2012/02/kobe-bryant-says-hes-better-than-michael-jordan-second-to-wilt-chamberlain-as-best-nba-player-ever-v.html shutup

    Pop should win it (completely bias opinion there), I see the argument for Collins, but the way the Spurs develop or scout new talent, or get the most out of players is a testament to Pop’s coaching ability. I wish Noah would stop that finger guns ish after his jumpshots, I still dont know how he shoots with sideways rotation, I cant do it if I’m trying to.

  • Myung

    Tomorrows topic: why Steve nash is 2012 mvp (hint: no one did more with less).

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Scott Brooks? Do you not watch the games? If Scott Brooks wins COY then my “nbk award” is a better achievement. What a crock of sh*t, to say Scott brooks. Wow – so coach of the year should go to the guys with the best records in the league, regardless of the fact that those guys are also lucky enough to coach the literal best players on planet earth. What a logic less argument.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Doug Collins is getting the very most out of the 76ers. It’s not just because he has less. Way to ignore the other comments in this discussion. What a sh*tty contribution you have made today, it would be nice if you didn’t respond like a frustrated little kid.

  • Myung

    It’s my New thing. Trying to be Nbk for a day. It’s not very fun. Don’t know how you do it.

  • Myung

    After 10 years of contributing to slamonline, Im entitled to one of these days. Good night, guys.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    That’s your attempt at commenting like me? Bad imitation. But I’m flattered.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    LOL, at all that transpired here today.
    Another solid day put in at Slam Online. Well done gentlemen. Take the rest of the day off. Be back tomorrow though. Always remember, comment hard or go home.

  • Myung

    Like I said, NBK, I don’t know how you do it. It’s not me. I suck at it. I’ll go back to being Mr. Nice Guy next time. In fairness, I felt like I gave some arguments that YOU blatantly ignored as well. You believe Collins should be COY. I believe it should be Thibs (and I made a case for him). We’re both entitled to our opinions. I respect your hoops knowledge, even if we disagree sometimes. I hope your baby’s healthy. When’s he/she due again? I’ll be praying for you guys. Alright, I’m going to go spend time with the wife. We just put our kids to bed.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Well i didn’t purposefully ignore any of your points and was not being condescending or passive aggressive. I was giving my option on a situation and my POV on your comment. Like I originally said, I worded my first response to you wrong, then you proceeded to say my logic is broke and started with your little comments. It was a misunderstanding, no need to get all frustrated.
    .
    Baby was born on the 8th, all healthy and fat. I appreciate the prayers and well wishes, and didn’t mean to offend you or anything like that, I respect our conversations and you. I just did not at all like the way you handled this today, but I have no hard feelings. Have a good night, I will work on being more thorough and careful with my responses in the future.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    *Round of applause, followed with a “Yaaaaay”!*

  • http://www.nesn.com/2012/02/kobe-bryant-says-hes-better-than-michael-jordan-second-to-wilt-chamberlain-as-best-nba-player-ever-v.html shutup

    Sincerely congrats on the baby. Bottled baby water (walmart has nestle or the one with the pink label) is the best keep it a room temp, so if you heat it up its ready faster, thats if your using formula, dont shake the bottle with the nipple on and add a lil water before the powder it wont stick to the bottom. Just running hot water from tap once its mixed will warm the bottle fast. Fatherhood is a blessing, patience is the key. Once again congrats and good luck on your journey.

  • http://www.nesn.com/2012/02/kobe-bryant-says-hes-better-than-michael-jordan-second-to-wilt-chamberlain-as-best-nba-player-ever-v.html shutup

    Oh, and take lots of pictures, its cliche but time flies they get big fast. Invest in a baby sign language video, it helps bridge the communication before they can verbalize, and has been show to increase a child’s ability to learn, long term. If you use piratebay they have signing times season 1&2 with an add-on baby signs pack and android has several sign language apps, I would guess Iphone does too, so during that time in between comments on slam you can learn some signs and teach them to the baby. Obv start with milk, more, eat, mommy, daddy, poop etc….

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Haha I’m prepared don’t stress I appreciate it though.

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    Nearly 200 comments on a TPU and the Lakers or Heat didn’t play?
    Lengthy, reasonable discussion on multiple bball related subjects without a single personal attack?
    Myung letting his frustration at nbk show, resulting in some snark?
    Shutup giving nbk baby tips and well wishes (!!)
    Well this was a nice throwback comments section.
    In related news: THE MAYANS WERE RIGHT.

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