Post Up: Five Straight

CP3 in the 4th quarter (way more willing to shoot than in the first 3 QTR’s) = Kyrie Irving. How about that? btw, I get what you’re saying about the athleticism (which is God given and can’t be taught or learned), but some of the best PG’s of my lifetime haven’t been physical specimens: Magic, Stockton, Mark Price, Mark Jackson, Chris Paul, Steve Nash, Isiah. Some were taller (Magic), craftier, or quicker (Zeke), but again, they weren’t physically blessed like Rose, Westbrook, or Wall. But that doesn’t mean Wall’s ceiling is higher strictly based on that. You have to take into account bball IQ, leadership, respect of teammates, and other skills (such as the ability to hit a J consistently). I don’t think DeAndre Jordan’s ceiling is higher than, say, Roy Hibbert’s, simply because he can jump out of the gym. I just feel like Kyrie Irving’s ceiling is just as high, if not higher, than Wall’s and that’s based (I admit) on a very small sample size of both players. BTW, I completely agree that Wall has been playing with knuckleheads with low bball IQ’s the past 1.5 years, but it’s not like Irving was given much of a supporting cast either. When Alonzo Gee and Omri Casspi and Anthony Parker and Boobie Gibson are your partners in crime, you’re not exactly playing with the 1996 Bulls out there. I think BOTH guys have done exceptionally well with some mediocre teammates. And while Washington might beat CLE in the knucklehead factor, Wall had the better set of teammates (speaking on talent alone). Remember this too: Wall was given free reign from day one and was basically given autonomy. Irving was coming off the bench early this year while he learned the ropes. I’m interested to see if Wall and Nene can develop some good chemistry. Lastly,I’ll put it one more way: if you believe Wall has the higher ceiling, who do you think has the lower floor? I’d say that’s Wall too, unless he develops a more consistent J.

Well said Myung.

Anyone see Lamar Odom’s flop yesterday against the Lakers. Bynum, double-teamed, holding his left forearm up to keep LO away and LO falls like a pack of cards. The same kinda stuff Blake gets away with. If the significant amount of contact with Perk midair was not enough to keep you from “dunking” it on that play, then how do you fall over when little guards and small forwards bump into you. smh.

Lakers took a note from the Mavs from last years playoffs series. They were sinking everything. Kobe played exactly how he always plays last night. The only difference is they didn’t need any late game heroics and him to try to finish out the game for them. And Sessions is starting to assert himself more. Which you could tell Kobe was completely fine with. He cleared outta his way for a pick and roll iso and this is only his 4th game. So Kobe respects his game allot already. That much is obvious. Kobe shot the same shots he shoots every night. That’s what I love about him. He doesn’t think about his last shot let alone his last game.

Forgive me JTaylor, may be not a numbers thing for me; I just can’t see any other athletic pg not do the same given the situation and opportunity.

Perhaps nbk; but I watched the one last night against the Nets though; still don’t see it. I wish him the best though, I hope he becomes the dude you guy’s are talking about. And when he does, I’ll eat my words with fine diamond encrusted silverware… no problem.

I also wanted to say that it’s a shame what the Knicks are doing.
They played dead, Melo in particular, and then when the coach gets fired they decide to play ball for real? I don’t even like DAntoni, but man, this is a clear example of why the NBA is a players’ League in certain ways. I don’t know why he couldn’t motivate his team anymore, but clearly that was the main problem.
I think it was Melo to be honest. Every thought Amare was done, nope he can still play. They thought Lin was done, nope he can play. But suddenly, the team is working hard and playing together? Weird man, really weird.

I understand what Spaceship is saying.
In some ways, Wall has regressed. I’m seeing a tad more selfishness from him, and he still isn’t thinking through the game like he should be at this point.
But, and this is a BIG BUT, this is only his second year, and he was hurt for huge chunks of his first year, didn’t have a training camp, had a crap coach and crazy teammates.
His situation is so VASTLY different from Kyrie’s. Kyrie joined a team in freefall, but that had very solid role players and got a serious, tough minded coach with full organizational backing. That makes a huge difference, I think.

Klay Thompson > Monta Ellis…
-You heard it here.

I don’t have league pass, but I have a buddy who lets me use his broadband league pass when he is busy. I watch plenty Lakers games to know when Kobe makes better choices on the court.
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According to Lakeshow Kobe never does anything wrong, so even when he does play better and makes better choices, it’s just “normal kobe, the difference is he didn’t have to play like an idiot at the end of the game because they were winning by double digits” which is false. They were winning by double digits because he let Ramon Sessions dictate much of the offense and it went through Pau Gasol as much as anyone else, exactly what their offense should do.

I see your points. I’m glad you agree they are the same shots, but yes they were taking more within the flow of the game. The flow isn’t always like that though. That’s sometimes Kobe’s fault, sometimes someone elses or the coach. You saw how the Mavs played Bynum right? That happens to either Pau or Bynum every other night. A team sends a fast double team and Bynum is terrible at passing out of double teams. Kobe usually then takes it upon himself to get those shots that Bynum or Pau are having taken away from them. We all know Kobe can get off a shot better than anyone in the L. That’s usually what happens.
-Now things are changing. Sessions is changing the team allot already. It’s for the better for sure also. Kobe has no problem settling into the role of 20 shot per game SG, instead of play maker, scorer, and distributer, just so long as others are taking good shots.
-Kobe never does anything wrong.(had to fill my nbk, stan quota that he requires of me.)

Nah…I skipped out on it this year. I wasn’t in the mood to shell out 150 when there are games on national TV damn near every night.
SpaceshipJay, it goes beyond numbers for me with Wall. I actually think dude has improved (no matter how miniscule) his jumpshot compared to where it was last year. He still has a long ways to go in terms of being a respectable jumpshooter but I don’t it’s as big a hindrance to his game as everyone thinks. Many greats were average shooters at certain points in their career yet they found a way to dominate. The only thing that is holding him back is his teammates/organization. People don’t understand the kind of effect a dysfunctional organization has on a young player’s mind/game.

Lakeshow did you not read my first comment on this thread?
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“nbk Posted: Mar.22 at 12:23 pm
That was exactly how I think Kobe should play on a nightly basis. 10 of his 11 shots made were jumpers, which is fine by me, just as long as he isn’t shooting those contested 20 footers that stall the offense and take the defense out of position. Kobe was great last night. Ramon Sessions allows him to relax into his role a lot better when he’s on the court.”

No I didn’t. Reading the comments now. That doesn’t explain why you expected Kobe to not be doing what Mike Brown wanted him to and run the offense. Who’s better at running an offense, Fisher, or Bryant? Kinda tough, but i’m going to say Bryant at this point. Your acting like he should have been “allowing” the PG to run things this year. There was no PG this year till 4 games ago. You cannot expect the last couple of games that Kobe should have just put the ball in the new PG’s hands, that admits he is not ready to fully take over the offense, right? He is now starting to take over the PG spot, as he should, and Kobe will have ZERO problem with taking his foot off the peddle. Do you not know who the Lakers had in the back court till Sessions came to the team? They had by far the worse back court of any team in the L minus Kobe. He forced allot of shots. We just differ on our realization of whether or not he needed to take those shots or not.

Lake, no NBA player should be taking the amount of shots (23.7 per game) that Kobe has this season. That is an insane amount of shots for anyone let alone a guy that plays with the best frontcourt in basketball. He’s taken the most shots since 05-06 (when he played with the likes of smush parker and brian cook), so your telling me this current Laker squad is just as bad as that one?
Now…if he was doing it at an efficent level, I wouldn’t have much to complain about but when he’s shooting the 3rd worst FG% his career while taking away quality looks from his 2 Bigs and laker/kobe fans see nothing wrong with it, that I have a big problem with.

Yeah I agree with that.
Something people don’t realize and they will give another player props for it(D-Rose), but chastise Kobe for the same, is that his shots that he puts up on the rim are rebounded by the best rebounding front line in the L. It’s normally on his running shots and lay up attempts over long range bombs, but those shots allow Bynum and Gasol to clean up the board and get an easy tip in slam or just rebound and have deep position. I’m not saying that it’s “good” play making, but if your getting players easy shots(even if it’s by missing shots) then that’s a positive thing. I know no one will agree, except maybe Chicago Bulls fans, but it’s the truth and whether you like that or not it’s not only a bad thing that Kobe shoots the ball allot.

@lakeshow, where your argument is a little invalid is that Gasol & bynum can get their own shot without the help of kobe. now with the bulls, boozer can get his own shots sometimes, but we all know how inconsistent he can be and noah is not a scoring threat, so rose doing is actually giving those guys to get easy baskets sometimes.

I mean seriously Lakeshow, your argument would be valid if it were anywhere close to factual, but you’re just throwing out assumptions. The Lakers are better with Kobe playin the role of scorer not playmaker. Simple as that.

Wall needs some old-man moves to compliment his great athleticism, whereas Kyrie excels at those little things which makes it easier for him to excel vs better athletes. This is where being injured may have helped him a lot. When you suffer a long injury you have to slow things down during rehab and practice before getting healthy again. Seems to me like Wall is stuck in 5th gear most of the time…

Slic, No Bynum and Gasol can’t get there own shot. Not any time they want. Kobe can literally get a shot any time anywhere. Not a good one, but a shot. Gasol is one of the weakest post players in the game. He can dominate sometimes, but he is not like Kobe. Bynum is terrible when he gets double teamed. I said TERRIBLE. He is awful when doubled. It’s funny how you guys act like the L is made for post players. It’s not. This is a guards game.
-Taylor, when will you get this through your brainless head….

KOBE SHOOTS TOO MUCH!
No one on the planet besides Kobe disagrees with you. Do you wake up every morning and just tell yourself “Kobe shoots too much.” We get it. Yes he does. Agreed. You are correct sir. Yes. Right.

Lakeshow you are gettin defensive despite people complimenting Kobe on last night. I mean, seriously, you are way to sensitive to talk about Kobe rationally. You brought the conversation about Kobe shooting too much on yourself with your 2:25 comment. Nobody was talking about him shooting too much before that gem.

Lake, HA! Such a well thought out and provoking response.
Bynum is probably the best in the L at getting great position down low and is damn near unstoppable when he gets the ball 5-8 foot from the basket and while you’re right about PGasol’s lack of lower body strength affects where he gets the ball, he’s still one of the most skilled post players in the game (probably the best) and is damn near automatic from 15-17 feet. So you’re telling me that Kobe taking contested 23 footers after contested 23 footers are a better option than Gasol/Bynum down low? Oh lawd…..kobe fans let their obession for the guy cloud whatever miniscule knowledge they have about how the game of basketball should be played.

I was wondering if it was just me that noticed that Kyrie likes to score more than he likes to pass. out of curiosity just how good does this trade make the lakers? are they better than the thunder now? better than the spurs? better than the grizzlies? where do ya’ll see them in the western conference overall?

It’s hard to quantify how bad Saunders and Wittman were at handling that team. That’s all I can really say. They were like Westphal.