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Monday, March 5th, 2012 at 8:35 am  |  124 responses

Post Up: Point Guard Hard

DWill gets 57, Rondo messes around for a triple-double and DRose leads the Bulls to a W.

by Abe Schwadron | @abe_squad

Some days are just basketball days. I woke up to Knicks-Celtics, took a halftime break to get up some shots of my own, then settled in for an afternoon-into-evening of hoops. And man, did the NBA deliver some greatness. Is there any denying this is a point guard League, people? Last night alone we had Rondo, Deron, CP3, DRose, Nash, Lawson…

Celtics 115, Knicks 111 (OT)

With all the debate lately over who holds the title of League’s best pure point guard, Rajon Rondo—for at least one day—is forcing his way into the conversation. He notched his second triple-double in three games, this time with 20 assists, 18 points and 17 rebounds (a career-high), while his counterpart at PG, Jeremy Lin, scored 14 points but shot 6-16 and had just 5 assists to 6 turnovers. Boston let came back from a double-digit first-half deficit, and Paul Pierce drilled a 3-pointer with 4.9 seconds left in regulation to send the game to overtime. In the extra period, it was all Rondo, as he put Boston in the driver’s seat down the stretch with consecutive assists to Ray Allen, helping the Celtics improve to 19-17 on the year. Pierce (34 points) and Carmelo Anthony (team-high 25 points, 8-20 shooting) traded clutch buckets at the end of the fourth quarter—first Melo to the cup, then Pierce over Lin, then Melo over Pierce—before the lifetime Celtic dialed up from deep to sink the hearts of Knicks fans everywhere with a trey from the top of the key. Melo had one last chance to get the W in regulation, but missed a fading jumper form the corner. New York (18-19) got 14 apiece off the bench from Steve Novak and Iman Shumpert, 7 assists from Baron Davis, and Amar’e Stoudemire finished with 16 points and 13 boards, but had 22 team turnovers (6 from Davis).

Lakers 93, Heat 83

Kobe Bryant scored 33 points, leading the Lakers to their 8th win in 10 games, exacting revenge on Dwyane Wade a week after the now-infamous hard foul in the All-Star game. The Mask shot 14-23 from the field and hit three big shots in a row in the fourth quarter—Kobe has scored 30+ in every one of his three games with the extra facial hardware. Miami, meanwhile, was without Chris Bosh again, and Dwyane Wade fouled out with more than 5 minutes left in the fourth (finishing with 16 points, 5 assists, 5 turnovers). Post-game, Wade complained about the Staples Center lights bothering him after being knocked around in the third quarter. In-game, Wade complained about four tough foul calls in a five-minute stretch of the fourth. Starting in place of Bosh for the first time since the 2009 Playoffs, Udonis Haslem had a forgettable game, going 0-5 from the floor with zero points and 2 rebounds in 19 minutes. LeBron James racked up 25 points, 13 rebounds and 7 dimes, but it wasn’t enough, as the Heat couldn’t get within striking distance in crunch time. The Lakers locked down on D, holding the Heat to 37.5 percent shooting, blocking 10 shots and feeding off defensive intensity from Metta World Peace, who had 4 steals, plus 17 points. The big fellas both had double-doubles—Pau Gasol with 11 and 10, and Andrew Bynum with 16 and 13.

Raptors 83, Warriors 75

Both teams shot under 38 percent from the field, but the Raptors had DeMar Derozan, who dropped 25 points to push Toronto past Golden State in a sloppy affair. The third quarter doomed the Warriors, whose 47-38 halftime lead evaporated in a heartbeat, as GSW scored only 11 points in the frame. Golden State was within 4 with just over two minutes to play, but the Raps closed things out simply by out-hustling the Ws, despite 22 points and 12 rebounds from David Lee and 20 points from Monta Ellis. Lee found Ellis for the game’s hottest highlight—a ridiculous spinning finish in traffic in the fourth quarter—but the Warriors were once again without the services of Stephen Curry, who dressed but did not play, nursing that sore right foot. It was a tough night for Nate Robinson (who shot 2-12 from the field and finished with 7 points) and Dorell Wright (1-9, 3 points).

Nets 104, Bobcats 101

Deron Williams wants his name in the No. 1 point guard talk, too. All he did last night was drop a cool 57 on the Bobcats, all of them much-needed, as the Nets escaped Charlotte with a 3-point win, moving to 12-26 on the year. Charlotte blew a 16-point lead, and now owns a 4-31 record. Williams brought New Jersey back from an 8-point halftime deficit thanks to 40 second-half points, including 22 in the third quarter. He scored more points from the free throw line alone (21) than the rest of the Nets starters scored total (20). Bottom line, dude was ridiculous. DWill added 7 assists and 6 boards, and the only other Net in double figures was Kris Humphries, who put up 11 points and grabbed 13 rebounds. The Bobcats shot sub-39 percent from the field, made 2 of 14 three-pointers, and were led in scoring by Corey Magette’s 24, despite his 4-12 shooting. Somehow, Charlotte was close enough to see a potential game-tying DJ Augustin heave at the buzzer fall short. Unfortunately for New Jersey, the awesomeness of Williams’ huge performance was countered by a not-so-awesome injury for Brook Lopez, who hobbled off the court after 15 minutes with a rolled ankle and left the arena on crutches.

Clippers 105, Rockets 103 (OT)

Another crazy one from yesterday, featuring a ridiculous 20 ties and 24 lead changes. Chris Paul scored 28 points, dropped 10 dimes, only had 2 turnovers and overcame a couple non-CP3-ish plays down the stretch to lead the Clippers to an overtime win over Houston. With the game tied up, Courtney Lee bottled up Paul on the last play of regulation—Paul didn’t even get a shot off in time, though the one he fired up after the buzzer went in. In overtime, Blake Griffin stole a Houston inbounds pass with 50 seconds left and the Clippers up by one, then Samuel Dalembert returned the favor, scooping up a CP3 turnover, but the Rockets couldn’t get anything to go in crunch time. Kevin Martin (team-high 25 points) missed a 3-pointer at the horn that would have won the game for Houston. KMart clanked 3 jumpers in the last 1:06. Dalembert (17, 12, 3 blocks) and Luis Scola (16 and 12) each delivered with double-doubles—Griffin did too, with 14 and 11, but shot 5-14 and had 4 turnovers.

Bulls 96, Sixers 91

With the Bulls clinging to a 2-point lead and the clock ticking under 30 seconds, Derrick Rose stared down a Philadelphia double-team and said one big “eff you,” declining his option to swing the ball away from multiple defenders and instead driving right past them, swooping to his left, careening back to his right as he fell out of bounds and sinking a runner off the wrong foot to give Chicago a 93-89 lead with 20 seconds remaining. The Sixers cut the lead to just 3 with 8 seconds left, but the best Philly could get was an Andre Iguodala three that didn’t even draw iron. Rose battled two and three defenders down the stretch but still managed to rack up 35 points (20 in the second half) on 23 shots, plus 8 assists, plus long jumpers to beat the buzzer for both the second and third quarters. The Bulls shot 48 percent, to just 39 percent from the Sixers, and Chicago has the NBA’s best record at 31-8. Philadelphia did all it could to take down Chi-town, trying to push the pace and get out in transition (18 fast break points), but in the end the Bulls—well, Rose—made the winning plays down the stretch. Thaddeus Young led the Sixers with 17 points off the bench, and Elton Brand added a stellar 14-13-5 line in defeat.

Suns 96, Kings 88

The Suns won their third straight game, and in each of those wins, they’ve come back from down double-digit deficits. This time, Phoenix did it behind 19 points and 7 assists from Steve Nash and double-doubles courtesy of Marcin Gortat (14 points, 17 rebounds) and Channing Frye (11 and 10). Plus, the Suns got big boosts from Jared Dudley and Shannon Brown in the fourth quarter. Dudley scored 8 of his 14 in the fourth quarter, and 6 of Brown’s 13 points came on back-to-back three-balls down the stretch as PHX used a 15-3 run to open the final period and pulled away. DeMarcus Cousins had 16 points and 14 boards, but only two-thirds of the Kings’ three-guard lineup played well—Marcus Thornton scored 23 and Tyreke Evans had 17, plus 6 dimes, but Isaiah Thomas managed only 8 points on 3-13 shooting in 32 minutes.

Nuggets 99, Spurs 94

Tim Duncan threw down a dunk with 30 seconds to play to get the Spurs within 1, but Ty Lawson stroked a clutch jumper with 11.1 seconds remaining to seal the game for the Nuggets, who improved to 21-17, and handed San Antonio just its 3rd home loss of the season. Lawson narrowly missed a triple-double, finishing with 22 points, 11 assists and 9 rebounds—he was the difference maker in this one, and it was his second straight game with 20+ points and 10+ dimes. Tony Parker led the Spurs with 25 points, but San Antonio never led and had no answer for Lawson and company in the open court, as Denver scored 24 fast break points on the night. The Nuggs spoiled Manu Ginobili’s return to the court—he scored just 8 points in 24 minutes off the bench after missing two weeks with a strained abdominal muscle. Tim Duncan had 14 points and 9 boards, and gave Birdman the biz at least once, but it was the Denver bigs that had all the spark in the second half. Al Harrington scored 16 points and Kenneth Faried was a wave of energy in the fourth quarter. Even so, the Spurs had a chance to tie the game late, but Gary Neal’s three rattled out in the closing seconds.

Line of the Night: Take your pick of point gods: Deron Williams’ 57 or Rajon Rondo’s 18 points, 20 assists and 17 rebounds. It was Rondo’s 5th straight game with 10+ assists, and he joins Magic Johnson and Jason Kidd as the only other players to drop a 15-15-15 triple-double in the past 25 seasons. Williams set the NBA season-high, his own career-high and Nets franchise record (unless you count Dr. J’s ABA days).

Moment of the Night: Paul Pierce takes the Knicks to overtime with a vintage clutch three, and Derrick Rose does something I’m not sure anyone else can do.

Dunk of the Night: Your Sunday nominees include Iman Shumpert, LeBron James and Gerald Green.

Tonight: 9 games, highlighted by Mavs-Thunder (my WCF pick) on NBATV at 8, plus Pacers-Bulls and Clippers-Timberwolves.

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  • AD

    how about those nets lol

  • Logan

    DWade is a great player but he has to stop complaining. Those were all fouls, no doubt. Which one was a tough call? BS.
    Kobe was ON and a good win for the Lakers. Lots of more work to do but this one will linger around Lakerland for a bit

  • Logan

    oh and Ron….Metta World Peace shows up like this every game? Lakers are going to be tough to beat

  • http://bassbesteck.wordpress.com Bassbesteck

    got a €5 betting voucher for online-bets…

    placed bets on the bulls, the knicks and the bobcats…

    i know why I’m a bulls fan…

  • tom

    yeah logan, but metta only shows up like this every 10th game or so…

  • http://dsjfkl.com Jukai

    Bosh > Wade for the Heat. Not even talking about talent, but the bigs are just terrible without Bosh.
    Boy, that Joel Pryzbilla signing woulda been something huh!

  • MUBWAR

    heat lost once in 9 games without the services of Wade, undefeated without James but already lost 2of3 without Bosh? we need you CB. Can the raptors please stop winning? what happen to that first overall pick of next season?

  • bull22

    lots of great games yesterday, while the knicks show improvement over being a dreaded basketball team at beginning of season they need to change their championship aspirations to at least avoiding chicago or miami in the first round to have chance at second round.

  • http://www.yahoo.com The Fury

    Bosh is so underrated right now.

  • dsleepy

    i know this site take a much more informal approach to sports reporting than ESPN, SI or most other outlets, and i appreciate all the commenters who provide insight and humor. you guys make my day. but the quality of writing in the articles has really dropped off in the last couple of years (and yeah i’ve been a SLAM fan for a little while now, so it’s dissapointing to see). i’m not saying that all the articles have to be oxford-perfect, but c’mon…i don’t feel like it should be too much to ask that you run through spell/grammar check before you post things. i’m not singling out just this post-up either, which actually isn’t so bad grammar-wise, compared to other recent posts. but some of the stuff i’ve seen lately (like that “LO apologizes to team” post) has been just plain atocious. SLAM writers, i know you guys are capable of putting together some real ish. please stop being lazy and proofread your before throwing posts on the site. after a little while, it just gets irritating to read sentences that make no sense.

  • dsleepy

    and before anyone goes there, i see the irony in forgetting a word in my own comment. but there’s a difference between an article-writer and a commenter.

  • Lan

    “Double Team Coming? Pass it? Nah! I’m not Bron.

  • T-Money

    bron is better than bosh. wade is better than bosh. bron can be wade and wade can be bron. neither can be bosh. miami has 4 wings that are legit nba starters. but they had to throw juwan howard in a game that was still up in the air in the 4th. bosh is vital. a radio station in miami reported that riles worked out sheed last week.. i wouldn’t be mad, even if he’s as out of shape as i think he is. it’s just so frustrating to watch joel fumble the ball and then take 3 seconds to gather himself before flinging some sort of left-handed jump hook thingy. it’s very unique for a player of wade’s talent to be so terrible in his bad games – it’s almost a net negative. kobe sonned him, there’s no other way to put it. bold prediction: miami plays only one pg in the playoffs and goes down to an 8-man rotation. norris cole will not be ready.

  • Heals

    What a day of hoops, where to start, hmmmm. Most impressive about Rajon’s crazy #’s is that he left 6-8 easy points out there and his teammates cost him a couple more assists. Sloppy game from Lin all-around and on his 5 points down the stretch, both plays should’ve been TO’s (slow down holding your hand up after a 3 when you played that bad all game). RR doesn’t get a bucket vs Kyrie last week, now his stat sheet has him compared to HOF’s!?!? Can’t wait to get off work and watch DWill drop buckets tonight. Great to see JGreen with the crew yesterday. Man DRose put em’ on his back again and in an incredible stretch just took Philly’s heart. Clip-show grinding out a game they just didn’t have it, but they are certainly working out some kinks right now. Lastly eff that broad in the front row given LBJ the stink face after he almost busted his ankle on her foot/chair…

  • jake

    The four best point guards in the world showed out last night. Just sit back and appreciate the greatness on display. Lin probably thinks he’s faced his toughest comp in deron and rondo, but Cp3 and rose are licking their chops waiting on their turn….

  • LA Huey

    Watching Wade and James have to depend on dropping the ball off to Joel, Juwan, and Pittman was a sad sight. Haslem supposed bread-and-butter J is broke this season. Watching LeBron deny Gasol in the post was very fun. Wade stunk it up.

  • Paul H

    I am going out on a limb and saying Rondo’s Trade value jumped a little bit last night….

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I also wonder why it takes Joel Anthony so long to gather him self. He takes almost as long as Magloire and Juwan, and they are old men… I know Joel has the hairline of an old man, but I thought he was a young dude.
    I watched very little of the ABC games yesterday. Between church, Sunday dinner with the fam, and the required after dinner nap, I had other priorities. But I do agree on the Bosh sentiment, and the idea that the Knicks have a lot of talent, if it plays well together.
    Rose is an incredible shot maker at the rim, Philly needs a scorer bad, the Clippers run a putrid offense, Cousins struggles against bigs who can defend, and I enjoyed watching Deron go off, but I was wondering what happened to Lopez.

  • Paul H

    Maybe all the talk of L.A being a clippers town now was a little bit premature…..I had the day off work and was watching an old DVD of the 2004 Detroit Pistons championship. I was wondering, In the short term anyway, It nearly seems like It was a godsend that the Pistons drafted Darko, Instead of Carmelo or Bosh. I think if they had of drafted either of those guys they probably would not have went after ‘Sheed. I’m pretty much certain they would not have one the chip that year with either ‘Melo or Chris In the place of Rasheed….Bad decision with surprisingly positive repercussions…

  • T-Money

    paul h… who cares about rasheed when you have melo or cb?!

  • IAMORANGE4EVER

    What a tough way for the Knicks to start their road trip. Should have won that one for sure. Pierce and Ray Allen are the last Celtics I’m letting take a pressure shot down by 3. Let anyone else shoot that pressure shot but those two. Come to think of it, all 3 games the Knicks and Celtics have played each other this season have been great games that could have gone either way. Can’t wait to settle things on April 17th at MSG.

  • AD

    yo did anybody see the clippers game at the end of the 4rth… i caught cp3 trash talking after scroing on kyle lowry (qoute)”f***** floppin n sh** man” i find it hilarious becuase cp had the meanest face too…. but im with VG that players who flop shout get suspended and fined……. its ridicoulous

  • Paul H

    @Tmoney, I simply mean ‘Sheed was a better fit at the time. ‘Sheed was a ridiculously talented post presence, a fantastic defender (who completely bought Into the Pistons team defense) and was, by all accounts, a galvanizing locker room presence. I really do not thing that either ‘Melo or Bosh could have had the same effect. And by effect I mean Rings.

  • Kadavour

    57 points on 29 shots…WOW. 17reb and 20 asts WOW! I don’t think DRose is as good a scorer as DWill, but his heart is UNMATCHED by the younger dudes in the game. i’m starting to really like this kid. Is it me, or does CP3 STILL look a bit out of shape? What’s up with him? And Blake Griffin, sophomore slump? Dude looks terrible when he’s not in the open court. shouts to MPW for locking up Bron in the 4th quarter. I believe King only made one shot in the 4th. Kyle Lowry has been impressive all season, hope he gets serious MIP consideration.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Deron Williams is one of the best rhythm players in the world. That was crazy.
    .
    Rajon Rondo is unexplainable.

  • MUBWAR

    Rondo and Kidd are the only players in the league with a 15 15 15 game. that’s ridiculous

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    The only 2 players in NBA history to do what Rondo did last night (15 20 15) are these 2 guys, Oscar Robertson & Wilt Chamberlain. Who are they?

  • add

    ridiculousness, cant believe i was caught up in college ball

  • LA Huey

    MPW did not individually lock LBJ up. Lakers were doubling and hedging on Bron and Miami bigs couldn’t handle passes or finish around the basket. Whenever Metta was on an island with LeBron, he either fouled or got burned.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    MWP was definitely the most effective against Bron. But dude still went for 25 13 & 7 – if that’s getting locked up, then sign me up for to get locked up during my next league game.

  • LA Huey

    Derrick Rose makes the kind of shots that make you reset your console because you’re certain the AI has it in for you.
    And that tech against Shumpert for that KG dunk was weak.

  • el_larsen@hotmail.fr

    what a response from rondo,and once again CLUTCH paul pierce
    cp3,Dwill are better than d rose
    the bulls defense is good cos they get away wiTH illegal defense all the times.what are the refs doing ?

  • http://www.reverbnation.com/tray24 T-Ray

    Good games last night. As big of a Laker fan that I am I didn’t really care about beating Miami because Bosh wasn’t there. I’m sure if he was there the whole game changes. Rondo was amazing last night! The Knicks are gonna be ok cone playoff time they’ll work out the kinks. DWill is that dude!

  • LA Huey

    Duncan’s proving he’s still got tricks up his sleeve with that 2-in-1-facial against Birdman.

  • http://slamonline.com/ Abe Schwadron

    I just want to say again that…of all the crazy stuff we saw last night, the one moment that made me go “What the!!!!!” And jump up outta my seat was Rose’s late bucket. For the previous 3 minutes or so the Sixers were doubling him at halfcourt, forcing the ball out of his hands, and the Bulls actually looked a little scattered. Then, DRose does that. I’m not even sure which part of that basket was better — the fact he literally just sprinted past a double team (of two good, long defenders) or the shot itself, off the wrong foot, fading, floating, I mean WOW.

  • Kadavour

    Bron was 1 for 9 from 15′-23′ was that the bigs forcing him to shoot? MWP locked him up. He did burn Peace twice in the 1st half, but after that he was handled nicely by Peace.

  • http://www.reverbnation.com/tray24 T-Ray

    Abe
    That’s his shot though that little shot put floater off either foot. And with his speed idk who’s guarding him he’s blowing by everyone’s a$$ he’s that good. And I’m far from a Rose slurped but damn this guy is the real deal. He’s the only superstar in the league that I think can win a title without having a second star.

  • LA Huey

    A lot of those jumpers were good looks. LeBron just didn’t knock them down.

  • ClydeSays

    I had called the C’s/Knicks game over until Pierce hit that off-balance 3 with a defender in his face. Crazy. Those are the kind of shots you expect Kobe to take & make, but almost no one else. Insane. Glad the C’s closed them out in OT. Nice win,

    The most impressive Rondo stat to me is always the defensive boards. He’s usually the smallest guy on the court, but he grabbed 17 boards with the likes of KG, Amare, Chandler, Anthony, Bass, etc roaming the floor around him. How does that even happen? Incredible.

    Not sure if the C’s will back off the trade talks though. Rondo is still the same ‘unique’ personality & his offense is always shaky. He missed about 7 shots at the rim, some of them uncontested. Missing a handful is understandable, you can see why defenses sag off of him almost always. Until he starts shooting 60% for FG, he can expect to have lots of room…

  • http://www.slamonline.com Slick Ric

    Wilt chamberlain had a triple double similar to rondo’s except he had 20-20-20. what has that guy not done? It would of been awesome to watch that dude.

  • Kadavour

    eh, i can accept that to a point, but i do think he was taken out of his comfort zone by his defender, ESPECIALLY when Peace D’d him up.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    A step in the right direction for the Lakers. Did anyone catch Pau just getting beasted by a small forward in the post. How can Kobe post up Bron, but Pau Gasol can’t. WTF. I would have never taken a bet on Kobe having by far a much more efficient night shooting than Bron would. 60% shooting for KB. 44% for Bron. MWP just played hard and smart is all he did. He’s not even close to the player he was, but when he has games like this it never surprise me.

  • Kadavour

    I don’t put a lot of stock into Wilt and Oscar’s early 60s stats. if you prorate their stats by possession, Magic would average a Trip-Dub. Also, Wilt had no contemporaries who could match him physically. To this day he would be an olympic class athlete. the game (and America) was still largely segregated and Wilt was a time machine that gave them a look into the future. If you take a blackberry into 1985 it’ll look like the coolest gadget in town, fast forward to 2012 and it ain’t sh*t (except BBM).

  • http://www.slamonline.com Jahmai

    The shots Drose makes, alot of people would say they’re crazy and they are but if you’re someone who watches the Bulls on a regular basis, you know he makes those shots all the time, and that’s not exaggerated.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Lakeshow, I don’t think LeBron has guarded Kobe in the post since last Christmas. And Kobe has that fadeaway. LeBron is heavier then Pau, and Pau doesn’t have anything going away from the basket. He couldn’t get position against LeBron, and he can’t score in the post 12+feet from the basket because he doesn’t really have a fadeaway (the only “hole” i see in Pau’s post game).

  • AD

    skip bayeless just said dwill cant do what chris paul does in L.A . dO yall agree?

  • http://www.slamonline.com Slick Ric

    ^hell naw, skips an idiot. He also says Deron isn’t a pg, but he’s one of the best passers in the league.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    AD, imo, Deron Williams wouldn’t make the Clippers any worse. (But Chris Paul might make the Nets better)

  • AD

    @nbk how?

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    How would Chris Paul make the Nets better?

  • LA Huey

    Lakeshow, in Pau’s defense, the shorter guy always gets preferential treament when there’s a battle in the post. No way refs would let Bron bump and push Kobe around the way he did Pau. At the same time, there’s no way Kobe lets his teammates get away with not giving him the rock if he’s going to fight that hard for position.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Chris Paul just seems to get more out of lesser teammates. I don’t know why. It just seems to be true.
    .
    I’m basing that off of what Paul did with those Hornets teams, those were terrible, horrid, ugly, poorly constructed teams, and somehow Chris Paul led them to the playoffs every year he was healthy.

  • Kadavour

    @NBK Pray-f*cking-tell how? Is Chris Paul making Blake Griffin better now? I still see Griff going one-on-one and shooting ugly fade-aways.

  • LA Huey

    I don’t see the current CP3 improving the same Nets Deron has to deal with. CP3 is still great but picks and can only be elite a quarter or two out of a game. He wouldn’t have that luxury with the Nets

  • Kadavour

    “seems” to be true is weak. I can see a drastic difference in how Boozer and Brewer get their buckets now than how they did in Utah. But this isn’t a Rose/DWill debate. Hump is having record years with DWill, and he gets production out of Lopez too (haven’t seen as much as i’d like to see from the both of them together though).

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Kadavour, you see the word lesser teammates? You see where I said Deron Williams wouldn’t make the Clippers any worse? Pray-f*cking-tell if you actually paid attention to what i said.

  • http://www.twitter.com/gerardhimself Gerard Himself

    man there were more people in the stands watching Wilt scoring 100, than last night in Charlotte to see Deron’s 57.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    And Kris Humphries was doing this the whole second half of last season. It started before Deron Williams became his teammate. Lopez was also productive before they got Williams.

  • AD

    @nbk idk it’s too hard too tell.. i do think cp3 is an better pick and roll player just becuase he is so patient… some ppl have gone and said he has been the best floor general since issiah thomas and stockton. im only 20 so i didnt see them play like that but that says a lot about cp3. i just cant wait until dwill gets dwight so the world can see how good he is, but cp3 and dwill are to great pg’s.

  • http://slamonline.com/ Abe Schwadron

    There were more people to watch me drop 7 at the SLAM pick up run on Tuesday than there were in Charlotte to see Deron’s 57.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    it’s almost like Chris Paul is the PG that makes everyone better. But Deron Williams is the better individual player. I think that’s partially why there are such strong feelings about each player. People say Chris Paul is overrated because he doesn’t have great individual numbers, while others say Deron Williams is overrated because he puts up great numbers on teams that don’t have (as) much success.

  • AD

    yea and if you guys dnt know i am a nets fan and kris hump has been doing this since last year.. and brook was good when we had vince and devin harris. there was a time when brook would just dunk the ball eveytime he had a chance.. Now its soft layups which dont go in sometimes. dwill does make anthony morrow look good and he would make sheldon will too but he has greasy hands everygame.

  • http://dsjfkl.com Jukai

    Uh, Chris Paul’s best individual seasons are better than Deron William’s best individual seasons.
    Paul dropped 22.8/5.5/11/2.8 on 50% shooting with 3 TOs
    Deron’s best year was what, 19.4/2.9/10.7/1.1 on 47% with 3.4 TOs?
    So not sure where this “Williams has better numbers but doesn’t have much success” argument.

  • AD

    ^^lol you obviously did not read

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Jukai, I’m talking about now. Not before Chris Paul’s knee injury. Pre-Knee Injury Chris Paul was by far the best PG on earth imo.

  • http://www.Dimemag.com showtime

    Im late but when did G-money get back in the league??I know he was beasting for the D-league Allstar game.

  • http://dsjfkl.com Jukai

    NBK: Well, fair enough, but even now, I don’t get the argument…
    Williams: 22.6/3.5/8.2/1.1 4TOs 41%
    Chris Pa: 19.7/3.5/8.4/2.2 2TOs 49%
    How is Williams putting up the better numbers? He’s just hitting his stride, and yeah, the 57 points is bananas but judging the season and not one game, they look pretty even to me.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Jukai, do you need me to really show you that Deron Williams is doing that with a D-League team and Chris is doing what he’s doing with one of the most talented teams in the league?

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    I have seen KB post on Bron enough over the years to know that he can post him up. Saw it in the All Star game like 5 times too.(I know it’s the AllStar game, but whatever it’s not like Bron likes getting posted up in all star game by his biggest rival) Why wasn’t LeBron guarding Kobe anyway? He guards D-Rose, but not Kobe. That’s interesting to me. Pau should never let Bron do that to him do that. Ever. He got two offensive fouls trying to post up Bron. That’s just gross. He is a 7′ excellently skilled POWER Forward. Pau does have a fade away shot. He uses decently often. Never should that embarrassing sh*t happen to him though. What was Bron doing when he was beasting Pau in the post anyway? He was like foaming at the mouth and growling and stuff… That was kinda funny.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    (for the record, i still think Chris Paul is the best PG on earth, but Deron Williams is right there, i just like Chris Paul’s effect on his teammates more then Deron Williams ability to dominate a game for 40 minutes)

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Lakeshow, really, why wasn’t LeBron guarding Kobe? Because Chris Bosh was in a suit. Did you not pay attention to the game?

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    NBK
    Utah had as much, or more, success than New Orleans or the Clippers.
    People say Deron is better because of what he can do in an individual scoring situation. Deron is able to get his shot off against basically anyone in the League, mainly because of the effectiveness he has in using that crossover to set up his jumper.
    However, before Paul’s injury, Paul had the advantage from a physical standpoint as far as quickness. Since he messed up his new, that advantage is much smaller.
    Paul does seem to get more out of his teammates and he does make them better. Just because Blake is shooting stupid shots in the post doesn’t mean it’s Paul’s fault, it means those are the plays Del Negro called. David West used to get similar plays, but thanks to how wet his jumper used to be, he was knocking them down with ease. Blake gets TONS of wide open jumpshots every game. He just can’t shoot well enough to punish teams yet.
    I think with Rose, Deron and Paul, you can’t go wrong choosing either player as your “best” in the League at point guard. It’s similar to when LeBron, Wade and Kobe were all vying for best overall player in the League a few years back. On any given night, one of them would look like the best. Same thing with the point guards.
    The really crazy thing is that of the 30 teams in the League, I would say 28 have a very good quality point guard. Basically, they only time you can get a night off in the League if you play point guard is when you go to Los Angles and maybe Dallas. That’s it.

  • LA Huey

    LakeShow, Bron’s antics fronting Pau was pretty entertaining. It was like he got possessed by KG for a minute. LBJ had to guard Kobe because Spo decided to go small when he had LeBron in there. The Lakers bigs had Howard, Pittman, and Joel crapping their pants they were getting abused so badly.

  • twinparadox

    Gerald Green sighting!!! I’m satisfied

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Was that an answer…

  • http://dsjfkl.com Jukai

    NBK: A lot of players (Jordan, Kobe, Chamberlain, Robertson, Robinson, Stockton, Kareem, Malone, Garnett) had some of their best years on some of their most awful rosters.
    When a player has to do it all, it often shows on the stat sheet.
    All irrelevant, of course, since you talked about DWill having better “numbers” period.
    It’s a silly argument anyway, bottom line my opinion is that DWill isn’t blowing Chris Paul away in numbers for me to say DWill is better. In all actuality, Deron Williams has had a disappointing season to say the least. One immense explosion certainly helps, but not the way some people are acting.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Right, but Utah was much more talented then New Orleans. Deron Williams gets what he should out of his teammates while thriving individually. Chris Paul gets the most out of his teammates, while thriving in big moments. Other then 3 games last year in the playoffs, when have you watched Chris Paul since his knee injury and said, “he just dominated that whole game?”
    .
    That’s the reason I can’t see the Clippers being worse with Williams, Chris Paul is getting everything he can out of those guys in the situations he is given but his coach is not putting him in any situation to maximize anyone’s production. Deron Williams would be able to play in VDN’s “system” (if that’s what you would call it) while going off individually. While Paul has to pick his spots.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Jukai, I said Chris Paul is better. Just not from an individual perspective. He’s a PG, imo, his effect on his team is more important then his production so he’s a better player.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    No I mean it makes sense because Bron took Pau out of the game completely, but Kobe was hammin on Battier and D-Wade. Seems like a Bron on KB duel was appropriate. Shoulda put Bron on Bynum that woulda been fun to watch lol.

  • AD

    and for the record.. i hope devin harris can pick up his play … he was so fun to watch all star year…. was kind of like rose just not as athletic .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOsRE9Xewk4

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Kobe Bryant scored a whopping 15 points after the 1st quarter. He made big shots in the 4th, but it’s not like he was burning Battier. He was making extremely difficult shots. All fadeaways except that three he got off the scramble. What was LeBron going to change? And was it really worth getting destroyed down low?

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Your right he was going to make those daggers no matter who was guarding him. It’s a personal thing not a basketball thing. I just want to see Bron go up against Kobe directly. I like watching the greats go one on one against each other. It’s thrilling to me.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    I’m with you. I wish we could have the All Stars play against each other in a 7 game series for a billion dollars. Just do the teams by matchups, Rose, Wade, James, Bosh, & Bynum v Paul, Bryant, Durant, Dirk, Howard. – I like Bynum with a less selfish team, and Dwight with a more selfish team, so I switched their conferences.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    DRose is the best PG in the NBA…yeah I said it.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Also, didn’t I say that Bron is the best all-around defender in the NBA?

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    You might be right on both counts JTaylor, but it’s debateable on both. Bron is how his is because of his siz eand strength. Battier, Toney Allen, Sefalosha,(don’t feel like looking up his name for spelling purposes) and a few other guys are “better” defenders, but lack the athletic ability and overall size to do what Bron does to defenders. D-Rose is great, but for my money I take Chris Paul in the better PG debate. D-Rose might be the better player though. Arguable for sure. nbk, those games would be sick. All them playing tough D unlike the AllStar games..

  • http://dsjfkl.com Jukai

    NBK: I’m not getting what you mean by an individual standpoint. Their numbers are identical. Do you mean Deron Williams can carry a talentless team better than Paul can, but Chris Paul can maximize talent better than Deron can?

  • Heals

    The thing about Rose’s lay-ups (need to find a new word for what he does cause lay-up isn’t apt) that gets me outta seat is they are so clean. Through the net without touching anything, no rattle, no couple bounces or a lucky roll, just always clean off glass, never a blemish…

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    I mean Deron Williams numbers reflect his teammates. The better his teammates are, the better his individual numbers are. The better Chris Paul’s teammates are doesn’t really reflect on him individually, he produces what he produces. He just makes bad teammates better to get there. (does that make sense?) Chris Paul can make the playoffs with a bad team, Deron Williams prolly can’t. But Chris and Deron can both push an elite team over the top, just for different reasons. (does that make sense?) this is f*cking incredibly hard to explain. Will someone with the ability to write explain what I’m trying to say?

  • http://dsjfkl.com Jukai

    NBK: Uh, yes, I guess I agree, I just never bothered to think about such a conceptual player comparison, haha. I guess it is something to think about when placing guys in different scenarios.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Is there any other logical way to compare Paul and Williams? They are such f*ckin close. It’s like trying to compare green grapes to purple grapes nutritionally.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Lake, I used to make that “Paul is a better PG while Rose is a better player” argument months ago and I’ve now come to the realization that was a foolish statement. How can you be a better player than the supposed best PG and not be the best PG in the NBA? If that makes any sense to you.
    There are a couple of cats that are better on-the-ball defenders than Bron, there are also a couple of cats that are better help-defenders but there’s no one better at all phases of defense (help, one-on-one). The man guards all 4 positions on a consistent basis and does a great job neutralizing each one. No one in the NBA comes close to doing that.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Jukai, how else would you compare them though? It’s like trying to distinguish the nutritional value between Green & Purple grapes…

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Hmmmm. If I want a PG to run my team, I want Chris Paul. If I want a player to win me games from the PG position. I take Derrick Rose. That’s the only way I rationalize it. I want Chris Paul on the Lakers over Rose. Paul would orchestrate from the PG position better than Rose would. I understand your position, but for now i’m sticking with mine. We agree on Bron. He is the most versatile(best all around) defender, but imo he is not the best at the art of defending. Get me? Weird I know lol.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    I’ve tried to post this a lot, if it comes out multiple times i apologize, but, Jukai, how else you going to compare them though? It’s like trying to figure which has more nutritional value, Green Grapes or Purple Grapes….

  • AD

    the whole debate was about dwill and cp3 not drose lol…….

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    My comments won’t post. This is annoying as can be. Jukai, that’s the only way I can see to compare them. My analogy about figuring the nutritional difference between green grapes and purple grapes feels right, but Slam doesn’t like it. Jerks. Jerks. Jerks. Jerks.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    My comments won’t post. This is annoying as can be. Jukai, that’s the only way I can see to compare them. My analogy about figuring the nutritional difference between green (fruit) and purple (fruit) feels right, but Slam doesn’t like it. Jerks.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    ofcourse, the word g.r.a.p.e.s. is the problem. ofcourse.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    The way you posted it made sense NBK.
    Deron Williams does not elevate horrible talent. He puts up numbers, but he doesn’t make players max out their ability with his play. Yet, if you have good players and they can do their thing, he won’t hurt them. And, he can go get you points from the point guard position whenever you need them.
    Paul makes other players better. He somehow puts them in positions to score. He has done the same for the Clippers and would do it more if Blake had a freaking jumper and VDN stopped effing around with the offense. But, Paul isn’t going to score in isolation a lot. He can’t just flip that switch at will and get a bucket. He can look for his shot more, but he can’t promise you a clean look, particularly not since the knee injury.
    You can’t go wrong with either one if your team is already good.

  • Kadavour

    kinda agree with both NBK and Jukai. this PG debate really is about preference. you really can’t quantify success because if you look at the teams, NOH isn’t making the playoffs without CP3, and the same follows for the Jazz.

  • http://dsjfkl.com Jukai

    NBK: Slam still trollin’ you, it seems.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Slam loves me. Like that one family loves Harry Potter.

  • AD

    you guys dnt watch the nets games tho…. dwill gets sheldon williams , johan petro, and everyone else open but they are far frmo consistent.. Morrow is a great shooter but when he misses a few shots he’s out of the game completely, petro and williams belong in the d league.. Humpries is the most consistent and lopez hasn’t played much.. But i agree, its all based on preference.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    SLAM=Dursleys.

  • Kadavour

    agreed AD. i watch Nets games and the only player DWill doesn’t have to create for is Baby Mamba. everyone else is spoon fed. and Hump is the biggest recipient of his production.

  • Kadavour

    wait, Farmar gets his too. but that kid is heartless. he’ll shoot it from anywhere anytime.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Couple of things, I’m with Jtaylor, Rose is the best PG in the league, he can just do more than Paul because of his physical abilities.
    Second, Paul picks his spots because he literally can pick and choose. There is a reason he has probably been the best fourth quarter player in the league this year. I think he is 2nd overall in 4th Q points, and he shoots 60% plus percent in the fourth. If I had to choose one PG for a game 7, it would be Paul.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    So is anyone a Chris Paul over D-Rose guy any more? I’m riding with CP till Rose yanks it from him. IMO that hasn’t happened yet.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I watched it AD.
    I agree with your assessment, but I feel like Deron’s body language is still bad, at least to me, and he doesn’t seem to create scoring opportunities for bums.
    Chris Paul made Aaron Gary and Jason Smith look good. Enough said.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    AD, by making their teammates better i meant in general. not just gets them open looks. Chris Paul made the playoffs with Jason Smith & Aaron Gray as heavy minute players….Deron Williams has similar talent, but they can’t win a damn thing.

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-talk/2011 Diesel

    That Rose shot is the EXACT SAME position Lebron was in when he passed to Haslem. Same double team coming from the right side at the elbow of the key with a big man rolling off the double team. If anything, Rose’s shot was even harder because he had two wing defenders that could match his speed and a defender waiting at the rim for him. Looking at the set up for Lebron’s last play he had a slow power forward on the double team and would have been uncontested at the rim. Lebron definitely has the speed and finishing ability to do exactly what D Rose did to that right side double team. The “right basketball play” would have been to pass to Noah for an open jumper but Rose understood that he probably had the better chance of making the game winner.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Deron Williams didn’t have a great team in Utah. He (like Rose now) had Carlos Boozer as his second best player, and he got a lot more out of Carlos Boozer than Derrick Rose has. Deron had a team of good scrappy role players who were better than Paul’s teammates, but still not “great.” Deron Williams made those Jazz teams what they were, and he definitely made guys like Ronnie Brewer and Mehmet Okur better.

  • T-Money

    Diesel – forget about the result. What play is the most likely to go in? The ttwisted d-rose lay up or the open haslem jumper?

  • http://dsjfkl.com Jukai

    Diesel – You’re comparing Noah’s jumper to Haslem’s?

  • http://chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls Diesel

    Noah has an underrated jumper. Haslem shoots like what 42% to Noah’s 36%? I’m too lazy to look it up. @t-money, Rose’s shot was twisted because there was a defender waiting at the hoop. On lebron’s play no one was there. And given that Lebron is 5 inches taller and can jump through the roof, he wouldn’t have to twist and contort…he could just power a dunk home.

  • http://chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls Diesel

    If I looked it up right, Noah has a better percentage than Haslem from 10-15 feet this year.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Lebron could have tried to finish over Millsap. He passed. It is over.
    Last year in the playoffs Lebron torched the Bulls and locked up Rose. He failed in the Finals and everybody forgot.
    It kind.of sucks.

  • http://www.slamonline.com TADOne

    Paul is a leader. Deron is not. That is your difference. If you want proof, Paul will punch you in the nuts.

  • http://slamonline.com datkid

    I’m with lakeshow. I’m not ready to say D.rose is better than cp. not at all. yes he can do more physically. no that doesn’t make him better. and for the record chris paul before the injury is still better than rose to me. plus before rose can take the title of best pg he has to go through D.will.

  • http://slamonline.com datkid

    I’m with lakeshow. I’m not ready to say D.rose is better than cp. not at all. yes he can do more physically. no that doesn’t make him better. and for the record chris paul before the injury is still better than rose to me. plus before rose can take the title of best pg he has to go through D.will.

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-talk/2011 Diesel

    What the hell does Lebron beating the Bulls last year have to do with the fact that he is afraid to take a game winning shot this year? If you don’t want to talk about it then don’t respond.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    So you think that he’s “afraid”?
    I don’t get it. If dude never took the shots, then I would say he was scared. If he torches two teams (Boston and Chicago) by dominating in the fourth and taking last shots, then I’m not going to say he’s scared.
    I think he thought that was the smart play. Which I disagree with, not from a basketball sense, but from a world reality sense.
    But to say he’s scared would require him to shy away from all stress situations and never have a track record of taking big shots in big moments.
    The truth is, much like Dirk in years past, LeBron has a very mixed track record in the clutch. Sometimes he’s money, sometimes he’s not. He doesn’t appear scared, he just doesn’t always appear confident that him shooting the ball is the best option for the team. To me there is a difference. To most other people, there is not.

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-talk/2011 Diesel

    Afraid was maybe too strong of a word. I would say the AllStar game and a few other games this year are in his head and its rattled his confidence when it comes to taking the game wining shot. And just to clarify I’m only talking about that last shot that can win or lose you the game. I don’t see it as clutch when a player shoots and makes shots in the 4th quarter of a game his team is down big in. Those shots have no pressure behind them. They’re all win win. If you make them you’re a hero. If you miss them, hey our team was going to lose anyway.

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