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Wednesday, April 25th, 2012 at 8:30 am  |  117 responses

Post Up: Ain’t No Sunshine

Utah bumps Phoenix for a Playoff spot and idle Chicago clinches the East with a Heat loss.

by Abe Schwadron | @abe_squad

It’s that weird time of year when a handful of the NBA’s teams have turned up the intensity to 11 and the rest are ready to empty the bench 11-deep. Last night was the perfect example—let’s get it.

Hawks 109, Clippers 102

Blake Griffin scored a season-high 36 points, but with about 40 seconds to play and the Clippers having cut a double-digit lead to just 4 points, Joe Johnson pulled this out of his behind to deliver the dagger for Atlanta:

It was only 3 of Johnson’s 28 points on the night, but the shot effectively ended the game, keeping Atlanta’s home-court advantage hopes alive. Chris Paul had 34 points, but the Hawks used a 15-2 run in the third quarter to take control, sparked by their own point guard (Jeff Teague, 21 points) and Josh Smith (18 points, 10 rebounds, 5 assists).

Playoff Implications: Lakers clinch Pacific Division and West No. 3 seed with the Clips loss.

Celtics 78, Heat 66

As ugly as the starting lineups were in this game, it still seemed hard to believe that this game could be so, well…whack. With each team’s Playoff seeding all but written in ink, Miami’s Big Three sat out, as did Ray Allen, Rajon Rondo and Kevin Garnett. The result was the Heat’s lowest point total of the season—even after scoring the first 11 points of the game—and their high-turnover number of the year, at 25. Paul Pierce started the game but scored just 8 points and sat out the fourth quarter. The teams’ leading scorers were the unstoppable Sasha Pavlovic (12 of his 16 points in the fourth quarter) and the immovable Dexter Pittman (12 points). No, seriously. Boston finished the year with a 3-1 year against the Heat.

Playoff Implications: Bulls clinch East No. 1 seed with the Heat loss.

Thunder 118, Kings 110

It’s hard to take much from this game for Oklahoma City, considering its crunch time lineup was Derek Fisher, Cole Aldrich, Nick Collison, Royal Ivey and Daequan Cook, but the Thunder are happy to take the win and prevent any more injuries to their stars. Kevin Durant scored 32 points over the first three quarters before taking a comfy seat on the bench. With OKC up 1 and 1:35 to play, Fisher drew a silly foul from Tyreke Evans on a 3-point attempt, earning 3 free throws, enough of an edge to finish off the Kings, despite another monster game from DeMarcus Cousins (32 points, 7 rebounds). Cook scored all 19 of his points in the fourth quarter.

Playoff Implications: None.

Jazz 100, Suns 88

And with that, your Playoff teams are set. Utah clinched the last remaining post-season berth behind—who else?—their big men. Paul Millsap scored a game-high 26 points on 10-18 shooting, grabbed 16 rebounds, plus had 4 assists and 3 steals, Al Jefferson added an 18-16-4 line and the Jazz finished with a +14 rebounding advantage and a +10 margin on points in the paint to get past the Suns, who failed to keep their Playoff hopes within reach. Down 7 at halftime, Phoenix stormed back to take an early fourth-quarter lead, but Utah went on a 26-12 run to end the game. Steve Nash delivered with 14 points and 11 dimes, and Michael Redd and Jared Dudley each added 15 points, but Marcin Gortat shot 1-8 with 2 points (12 rebounds) and the Suns made just 5 of 23 three-pointers. Could this really be the end of the Nash era in Phoenix?

Playoff Implications: Utah is in, Phoenix is out. And the Jazz could conceivably get to No. 7 out West, too.

Hornets 83, Warriors 81

Before you take a mental dump on this game, I can tell you from first-hand experience that the last 15 seconds were extremely entertaining. Were they the only 15 seconds of the game I watched? Why, yes. I picked it up tied at 81, as Warriors point guard Charles Jenkins (10 points, 10 assists) drove the lane for a game-winning bucket, only to have his stuff swatted by Gustavo Ayon. Rather than calling timeout, Monty Williams let the Hornets run in transition, leading to a pretty no-look pass from Greivis Vasquez to Marco Belinelli for a wide-open game-clinching layup—2 of Belinelli’s season-high 23 points.

Playoff Implications: None. Lottery? Huge! NOLA’s win means my Wizards win clinch the “No. 2″ spot.

Line of the Night: Al Jefferson and Paul Millsap—the Jazz big men combined for 44 points, 31 rebounds and 8 assists

Stat of the Night: The ’11-12 scoring title will come down to one more game each for Kevin Durant and Kobe Bryant. After Durant’s 32 vs. Sacramento, he’s averaging 27.97 points per game to 27.86 for Kobe.

Dunk of the Night: Mo Williams to DeAndre Jordan for a casual Lob City classic.

Tonight: A seven-game slate that includes the always-heated Pacers-Bulls rivalry, CP3 and the Blakers in New York to take on the Knicks and Spurs-Suns late night on ESPN.

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  • http://www.slamonline.com Jahmai

    Would be pretty cool if KD got another scoring title, would make it 3 in a row. That’s impressive for a 23 year old playing in a league with Kobe, LeBron, Melo, Dwight(who should be dominating)and others.

  • Myung

    Joe, showing his usual display of emotion after that dagger 3.

  • http://espn.go.com/nba/ Paul H

    Unlucky Nashty and the Sun’s. That was some post-allstar run, I’ll admit I had them dead and buried. What ever team Stevie goes to It will make things interesting.

  • jimmer

    Thanks for the memories Nash. Lets hope SA don’t rest up tonight and you can battle them one last time.

  • http://nba.com GP23

    Will this next game be Nash’s last in a Suns jersey??

  • Heals

    Bos v Mia was the bizarro version of Phx v Uth…

  • RIGGS

    man miami’s bench is pretty bad.

  • RIGGS

    also, avery bradley has really come onto his own. Hopefully his shot gets a lot better so he can takeover the two spot more frequently, thus making a legit defensive 1-2 with rondo.

  • http://abcnews.go.com/US/seattle-arrest-questions-cops-dash-cams/story?id=15595576 Allenp

    How is 14 and 11 delivering in a must win game? Come on now.

  • LA Huey

    I wouldn’t pay any attention to the results of the a game where neither team cares about the outcome.

  • LA Huey

    Allenp, you know by now that Nash has a different bar applied to his work.

  • jimmer

    He’s old Allen. The numbers are OK. This game wasn’t lost at the point anyway. The ‘Polish Hammer’ dropped the soap and suffered a different type of hammering, 1-8 for 2 points and 12 boards in the biggest game of his career, against a team where competing in the post was going to be key. If Gortat played to his averages,(as Nash did) and the Suns could’ve plugged in a fully fit Grant Hill to body up Millsap, the result may have been different.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Nash played pretty f’n bad last night. That might have been his worst game this season. Good Timing Steve.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    This is the first time the Suns have missed the playoffs in consecutive years since 1988….which was a year after I was born.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Slick Ric

    KD winning three consecutive scoring titles is very impressive although I don’t think his last two(if Kobe doesn’t go crazy in his last game) have been as impressive with him winning them averaging 27 and 28ppg IMO.

  • http://slamonline.com/ Abe Schwadron

    I’ll admit, perhaps bad word choice. But at a glance, it was Gortat’s #s that really stood out as killing the Suns. Agree with the sentiment that Nash (and the Suns in general) didn’t look to have any kind of sense of urgency. But he wasn’t a complete no show. Congrats to the Jazz, very happy for Big Al Jeff!

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Looks like Nash continues to get a free pass from the media and fans.

  • logues

    JTaylor: maybe cuz he doesnt walk around like his $hit dont stink, pound his chest or stare at the crowd like every other big name player out there

  • http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200904270NOH.html IAMORANGE4EVER

    JTaylor21 free pass? You mean like the free pass CP3 gets for only being out of the first round one time. I bet you Nash has never been beat by 65 points in his career in the playoffs with a line likes this: 36 min 2-7 shooting 6 dimes and 4 points. Click my name to refresh you memory.

  • http://abcnews.go.com/US/seattle-arrest-questions-cops-dash-cams/story?id=15595576 Allenp

    I understand Abe. It’s the assist total. And it’s right around his average.
    But, if Chris Paul put up 14 and 11 in a must win game for the Clips, it would be a bad game. Everyone would agree and wonder why Paul doesn’t score more.
    If you can get buckets, you owe it to your team to get buckets when they need them. I don’t care if it pushes you outside of your comfort zone. Get buckets because you’re the best player on your team and you’re supposed to the team leader.
    Nash only took 11 shots, only made 4 and was -13 when he was on the floor. As NBK said, that’s a pretty horrible game in maybe the biggest game of the year.
    I’m pointing this out because of the slick MVP talk that started bubbling around Nash a few weeks back because of the Suns being in the playoff chase.

  • http://Slamonline.com Datkid

    I still say Westbrook over wade in all-nba teams.

  • http://abcnews.go.com/US/seattle-arrest-questions-cops-dash-cams/story?id=15595576 Allenp

    You do remember who was on the team with Chris Paul right?
    Just checking.
    Which other team was he supposed to get out of the first round. Point them out.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    My issue with Nash last night was, he was the best player on the court. He should have at least attempted to take over the game by being aggressive. I mean, I understand that he is an assist guy and kind of relies on teammates to hit shots, but he can still create for himself, even when he’s being guarded by a better than average defensive PG (Devin Harris). He should have been more assertive.
    .
    He is not the only reason the Suns lost at all, Gortat was putrid, and Gentry sticking with Sebastian Telfair for so long in the 4th was like a shot in the foot. So it’s not all on Nash, but as the best player on the team, I (and most everyone I talk to about basketball in Phoenix) expected more out of Nash.

  • IAMORANGE4EVER

    Imagine if Nash only took 7 shots.

  • http://abcnews.go.com/US/seattle-arrest-questions-cops-dash-cams/story?id=15595576 Allenp

    I don’t understand why Nash gets to play passive and it’s like “Well that’s just how he is” but LeBron plays passive and he’s the biggest punk this side of Angola State Prison.
    Nash regularly decides not to score. And it’s a clear decision. Even at his age he can get buckets on most players in the League any time he wants. I was mad at Chris Paul when he did it last year and everybody was questioning him, and we should be questioning Nash too. (Not you NBK, your comments are fair and on point. I mean his BFFs over at ESPN and elsewhere.)

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    why are you trying to make this about Chris Paul? This is not related to that. Unless you want me to make this about how Carmelo and Amar’e have never even one a playoff game together……could you imagine if Steve had never even won a playoff game in Phoenix?

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    that was to Orange

  • IAMORANGE4EVER

    Bottom line, the media isn’t giving Nash a free pass.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Haha, Allen just hates Nash.
    Kobe gunna get that scoring title! Someone run the numbers and figure what he needs to score to bump over KD for me would ya? I’m curious how much Kobe will play in the final game. Since all the seeds are clinched I wouldn’t mind him putting up 40 on the Kings.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    BTW, Allen, you accidently just compared Nash (38 years old) to prime LeBron. Just a heads up on that mistake.

  • http://abcnews.go.com/US/seattle-arrest-questions-cops-dash-cams/story?id=15595576 Allenp

    Um, based on what? Who has criticized Nash ever? Hell, the fact that he doesn’t even try on defense has either been discounted with bogus charge stats, or laughed off as a joke. That’s stupid.
    Nobody has provided a clear explanation for why some best players on the team must dominate as scorers, but others get to be “playmakers” and their teammates get all the blame. That’s ridiculous.
    You’re the best player and best scorer. Play like it.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Orange? What do you consider a pass then? I mean, who is criticizing Nash right now in the media? I think he deserves to at least be discussed, which I haven’t even seen.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    A newly minted Melo fan criticizing someone for failing to get out of the 1st Round? I done seen and heard it all now.

  • IAMORANGE4EVER

    Edit: 58 points

  • http://abcnews.go.com/US/seattle-arrest-questions-cops-dash-cams/story?id=15595576 Allenp

    I didn’t compare Nash to LeBron. I compared the complaints about Nash’s passivity to the complaints about LeBron’s passivity.
    And would you rather I compared LeBron to 28-year old Nash? I didn’t do that because that seemed pointless and asinine since he didn’t put up his best numbers until well past that age.
    I don’t hate Nash, I despise ridiculous double standards.
    you can’t on hand say “Oh Nash is old, what can you expect?”
    And then on the other hand say “MY GOD LOOK HOW AWESOME NASH IS DESPITE THE FACT THAT HE’S OLD.”
    That’s ridiculous.

  • http://abcnews.go.com/US/seattle-arrest-questions-cops-dash-cams/story?id=15595576 Allenp

    Nash is an awesome offensive point guard. And he’s a Hall of Famer. At times he’s stepped up and scored big buckets for his team and been clutch and great.
    At other times he’s been strangely passive and refused to take over despite the team’s clear need for him to be that scorer.
    Those are facts. If you can’t admit them and don’t want to examine what they mean, then you need to ask yourself why.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    No it’s not ridiculous. Does Jason Kidd get ridiculed? No because he does the most he can with what he has these days. Does Kurt Thomas get lambasted for not being the defensive stalwart he once was? Marcus Camby? Do you have a problem with J-Kidd getting a free pass? What about Grant Hill? Shaq got free passes. Why? Because they are old.
    LeBron is a physical specimen the L has only seen maybe 10 players come close to in athleticism, strength, speed. He should be expected to score and be dominant. Nash has always been a pass first guy. Always. LeBron isn’t. LeBron is a scorer that is also a phenomenal passer. It’s absolutely stupid to compare LeBron and Nash in any way. Makes zero sense.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Well considering Nash takes over games as a playmaker, then as a scorer, is the best player on his team, and people are talking about him as a top 10 MVP candidate….I think it’s pretty reasonable to compare why one gets criticized and the other doesn’t…

  • http://abcnews.go.com/US/seattle-arrest-questions-cops-dash-cams/story?id=15595576 Allenp

    Jason Kidd has been criticized his entire career for being a horrid shooter. He’s never been “passive” during his prime.
    He’s an old man who is like the fourth best player on his team, maybe third. Of course no one expects him to take over games. Same is true for Grant Hill and Kurt Thomas.
    I’m gong to put this in capitals.
    STEVE NASH IS CONSIDERED THE BEST PLAYER ON HIS TEAM AND WAS IN THE DISCUSSION FOR MVP. HE SHOULD BE DISCUSSED LIKE THE BEST PLAYER ON HIS TEAM AND A POTENTIAL MVP NOT AN OLD MAN.
    People want to pick and choose how they discuss him.
    LeBron has always been pass first. He scores because he can ad because he has to, not because that’s his best talent or because that’s his nature. That’s why he has been compared to Magic far more than Jordan.
    Just because your athletic doesn’t mean you should be expected to score. If you’re the team leader and best player you should be expected to do what it takes to win. Last year during the playoffs everyone wondered why some games Chris Paul would be dominant as a scorer and then other games he would be passive. It was a problem.
    Same standard applies to everyone.
    You’re actually presenting things that aren’t true as if they are facts. That’s wild.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Nash is treated totally different from those old guys you mentioned because of how well he’s performing at this stage of his career. Those guys were never in the running for best player at their position or being considered for the MVP award past the age of 35.

  • http://abcnews.go.com/US/seattle-arrest-questions-cops-dash-cams/story?id=15595576 Allenp

    No one has ever said “Oh Allen Iverson is score first, he shouldn’t be expected to pass.”
    Hell, only idiots and Lakers fans have said that about Kobe. I’ve criticized Kobe and Durant, both the epitome of scorers, for not passing more when their teams needed it. Russell Westbrook has gotten the same criticism and he’s clearly shoot first.
    If you’re a “great” player and you need to do something to help your team win, people should expect you to do it. Score, defend, pass, whatever. You need to do it or you should get some blame.
    It’s funny that this concept is so foreign when we apply it to every other player in the NBA.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Well lets get to the point. You think because Nash is white he isn’t being called out for his lousy play.
    I think that he isn’t being called out for his lousy play because it’s not lousy compared to others his age. As a matter a fact he is the most productive player at his age in the NBA.
    I have not seen Nash on any top 5 MVP list all year. I don’t look at top 10 because after about the top 3 it turns into a I “like” this guy more than this guy list.
    Nash has had one of the most efficient season ever played by anyone in NBA history. He is doing it on a lousy team that had it’s playoff chances ride on the final game of the season. He has had a pretty impressive year by average PG standards.
    Taylor, you mention how Nash is playing better than all these other old players by a wide margin and are also wonder why he isn’t criticized more. Why would you criticize a guy who is outplaying everyone else in his age group by a wide margin? You can. No one should escape all criticism, but it would be silly for everyone to be upset that Nash couldn’t carry that PHX team into the playoffs. They aren’t that good and he isn’t as good as he was years ago.
    Nash’s defense is terrible and EVERBODY knows it and talks about it. How is that hidden?
    Allen Iverson shouldn’t have been expected to pass more. That would be stupid. He passed very well considering his scoring prowess.
    AllenP, when was the last great player over 36 “expected” to carry his team offensively and defensively?

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    So why can’t we look at Nash under JUST the context that
    . A)He’s the best player on his team
    . B)Last night was the most important game of the season
    - Why do you have to give him a pass for his age?
    - Why does what other player’s his age (who he has proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt he is heads and tails better than) do even matter in this situation?

  • http://nba.com GP23

    I think the thing with Nash is, is that he is known as the ‘good guy’ in the league, that ‘humble’ dude who is honoring his contract with that depleted Suns squad. That might have slightly helped him to avoid criticism from the media. But remember, nobody even expected the Suns to even be close to the 8th spot before the All-Star break. It was a good run by the Suns while it lasted. Utah Jazz just had the better team.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    I’m not giving him a pass. He should have played better. He also didn’t play like sh*t and he can’t be expected to be “the man” forever. We all know he shouldn’t be the best player on your team if your competing to win something big.
    It’s not like he quit on the team last night. Or this year. He has given them a great season. He couldn’t deliver with that piss poor squad. Get over it. Why would we need to revel in it? It’s not like it’s Bron not getting a championship in his 9th season. It’s not like Kobe getting swept by the Mavs. It’s not bad like that. That team had no business getting a playoff spot IMO.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    We are just talking about one game. What are you talking about?

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    What?

  • http://www.soundcloud.com/tray-5 T-Ray

    I think Nash gets a pass from the media and a lot of bball fans is because of his “loyalty” to his team. Some of the guys named earlier like Bron and Kobe at one point in time were seen as being disloyal. Rather it be Kobe asking to be traded in 06 or Bron leaving last summer. I agree with Lakeshow but I feel the spotlight should be shown on Gortat for playing so poorly AND give credit to the massive front line of the Jazz.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    We are only talking about how Nash performed last night. Not how he did this season. It is simply not even remotely related to any of the other things that you said. “It’s not like it’s Bron not getting a championship in his 9th season. It’s not like Kobe getting swept by the Mavs. It’s not bad like that”
    Nobody ever said it was.
    .
    Unless you are saying we shouln’t discuss things that happened yesterday in The Post Up!?!?

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    No idea what your talking about. I’m not the one trying to tell another commentor what they may and may not talk about. Am I not allowed to talk about general basketball in the Post Up? Am I only allowed to stay within your predetermined choices for what we may speak about? Anyway…
    Gortat is nothing without Nash. He is a back up Center. A good back up Center. Nash made him into a very good starting center. I don’t expect Nash to make sure everyone is playing awesome every night. He can do that sometimes, but I find that to be a ridiculous idea.
    It’s not like Nash is the toast of the League this year. Trade rumors are the most I have heard about Nash despite his very nice season. He earned a pass. Just like MJ did in Washington. Just like Bron in Cleveland. Just like Kobe with his garbage squad’s. You gotta give passes when they are earned and deserved.
    Whether we want to get into sexual promiscuity or other stories is up to us, but Nash has portrayed himself very well. He does allot of work in the community. He is involved in allot of different charities and is considered to be a nice guy and not a ego starved maniac like some of these other guys. I doubt that Nash is any less of an ego-maniac than anyone else, but he portrays a good image and people will go for that.
    Grant Hill portrays a great image. The League loves him and gives him plenty of cover per his production.
    I don’t see the lack of criticism as surprising what-so-ever.
    1. The media likes Nash. Just like they love Derek Fisher. Grant Hill. Jared Dudley.
    2. He is old.
    3. His team is garbage.
    That all adds up to a solid reason for giving Nash a pass for not being absolutely amazing in his final game of the year. IMO.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    You are the one telling us to “get over it” like somehow we are stuck on an issue from LAST NIGHT for talking about it. smh

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Cavs Lebron and Kobe sans Shaq/Gasol never got the kind of passes and excuses Nash has in PHX, never. Those guys still get criticized to this day for Bron never getting Cleveland to the “promise land” and Kobe for failing to make the playoffs/get past the 1st round without an all-star big man.
    You would think that a 2-time MVP will be held to a higher standard but I guess there are different standards and expectations for certain cats.

  • http://abcnews.go.com/US/seattle-arrest-questions-cops-dash-cams/story?id=15595576 Allenp

    Gortat would have been a starter no matter what. He signed a massive free agent deal to be a starter before he met Steve Nash, and then the Magic matched it to keep him as their back up.
    I hate when people make stuff up.
    The first point of contention was whether he was being given a “pass”. Orange didn’t agree with this, and you, Lakeshow, vacillated between saying that he deserved a pass because he’s old and his team sucks, and he wasn’t really being given a pass anyway.
    After we determine whether he got a pass, we can decide whether he in fact deserved and what makes you “deserve” a pass.
    Comparing him to inferior players who are nowhere near the MVP discussion this year is ridiculous.
    And Mark Stein had Nash as his top five in MVP voting just last week.
    Again, you’re having an argument based on made up facts.

  • http://abcnews.go.com/US/seattle-arrest-questions-cops-dash-cams/story?id=15595576 Allenp

    And as for the race thing, if I want to have a discussion involving race, I’ll have a discussion involving race.
    I see no need to even introduce that element since the issue can be argued without it.
    Your explanation is that because Nash is old, he gets a pass. This makes sense to you even as people praise Nash for being old.
    That’s like saying that it makes sense that Kevin Durant can’t post up when it counts because he is slender, right after you praise him for posting up all during the year.
    That’s asinine.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    If the suns made the playoffs Nash would have been #5 on Bill Simmons ballot. Which also counts. So that’ two real voters who had Nash in or around the top 5.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    HAHAH. Make stuff up. So Gortat is really a 15-10-1.5 guy? Right, that’s what your saying? He would do that on any team he was starting for right? Nope, Nash makes that dude a double double. He would be a 12-7-1 guy without Nash as a starter at best.
    Yes Allen comparing him to players no where near his talent is ridiculous. Just like acting like expectations should be the same for him as they are for James, Bryant, Paul and so on.
    So because Marc Stein thinks something we should act like it has credence?
    Nash is no where near a top 5 MVP choice. Obviously.
    So what are the arguments being made? My argument is obvious. Nash deserves a pass.
    What’s you fellas arguments? Nash should be severely criticized for this years PHX team?
    Taylor. Nash’s team is literally half as talented now and Nash is not as good as he was back during his 2 MVP stretch. (Two MVP’s which we all find to be ridiculous.)

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    No it doesn’t “count.” They didn’t make the playoffs.
    I don’t even know how upset we should be if he did get the Suns in the playoffs and was the 5th placed MVP. That would have been quite an accomplishment and 5th place MVP isn’t really an award. That team is pure sh*t. A terrible team. Sans Nash they are one of the worse teams in the L, so that argument can be made that 5th place MVP with a 8th seed birth would be warranted.
    We do know why Nash does so well on MVP awards right? He makes his team mates way better. Without him they are nothing. He makes that ship keep moving. He is a great organizer and floor coach from the PG position. It’s no surprise that Nash makes MVP lists in some fashion.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    NO actually Lakeshow, Gortat’s rebounding has gone DOWN since he got to Phoenix. And given the attempts, he’s always been this type of scorer. Clearly your argument is coming from a place of ignorance.
    .
    And we are clearly arguing Nash should not get a pass for how he played LAST NIGHT. I mean it only takes the ability to read to see that. Showing where Nash is on some people who actually matter’s MVP ballot validates the comparison between how Nash plays(ed) at the end of games. In this case, the end of the game yesterday, the most important game of the season. He doesn’t deserve a pass for his age. Just like a 60 year old who kills someone in a driving accident doesn’t deserve a pass because of their age. If you are tasked with a responsibility and benefit if said responsibility turns into a success, then you damn sure deserve the criticism that comes with the failure. It’s F*CKING SIMPLE.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Haha, calm down there big fella. Getting a little hyped up.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    That was the only way I felt I could to get my point across – i’m actually calm……. almost too calm. Maybe i’m about to turn into a storm? lol – idk, my bad.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    While I agree Nash could have done more and should be criticized for his play last night, he did put up stats above his season average. Would we jump on KD for putting up 28, 8, 4 in a losing effort in a crucial game? How about Bron putting up 27-8-8 in a crucial losing effort? Just some devil’s advocate thinking.

  • http://abcnews.go.com/US/seattle-arrest-questions-cops-dash-cams/story?id=15595576 Allenp

    NBK at 3:50
    Yes, that’s what I’ve realized. A place of ignorance.
    I’ve been taking dude seriously, and at times he makes decent points, but way too often he says stuff that’s not backed up by reality.
    Like saying Sidney EFFING Moncrief was never the defender that Kobe was, and was never on Kobe’s career path.
    That was so freaking ludicrous I began questioning every single comment ever made.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Dammit. Just typed for the last 10 mins of my life just to have some Google Chrome malfunction…
    Shortened edition: I don’t agree. I think Nash does deserve a pass for last nights game.
    Also, completely disagree on Gortat. If you are going off per mins played I can understand how you can say he was always been this kind of rebounder and scorer, but that’s not how it works. That’s like saying K-Love was a better rebounder his 2nd year in the L than the last couple years he played. Just not true.

  • http://abcnews.go.com/US/seattle-arrest-questions-cops-dash-cams/story?id=15595576 Allenp

    Oh, and kudos NBK for perfectly expressing the argument.
    If you get the benefits, pay the costs.
    Otherwise there is an imbalance. What I’m hearing is that the imbalance doesn’t exist, or that even if it did, it wouldn’t be a big deal.
    Preposterous.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Yeah that was a huge red flag. I noticed this habit about a year ago during a lengthy Kobe/MJ debate….

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Lakeshow, you either didn’t watch last night or you are just arguing for the sake of disagreeing. And you obviously don’t know what your talking about with Gortat. Like even a little bit.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Psst, Allen, I think nbk, is stinky and needs to shower more often! hehehehhehe
    hehehehe
    heheh
    ehehe
    You guys sound like 11 year old girls in a bathroom acting like this isn’t a page for the world to see… lmao
    Allen, I admitted I was wrong on that. I was just brushing it aside without thinking when I was asked about someone I knew nothing about. I, unlike most, can admit my wrong. I am a man who doesn’t feel like a child that’s just been beat after either. I am wrong and speak out of place sometimes.
    That is not going to stop me from speaking my mind. Hopefully it does challenge me to check up on history more than my short life experience as my fact book.
    JTaylor is a smart guy , he says bone headed things like that that Charles Oakley couldn’t shoot jumpers. That doesn’t make him an idiot. Makes him human. He spoke out of place as I did.
    I will always sleep well at night in knowing that I will always give a person the benefit of the doubt before coming down on them.
    Also you completely mis-read what I said if you think I said that “Sidney EFFING Moncrief was never the defender that Kobe was.” I said I thought Kobe was better in his prime than Sidney, which was clearly wrong, and I have come to that realization. I wasn’t born in the 60′s or 70′s like you so I don’t have the benefit of having seen players live from that time.
    No I didn’t watch the game last night, but it still stands that I wouldn’t expect a 36 year old PG to be a stud and drag his team to a win.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    No I just don’t give a sh*t if you see that I think you comment out of ignorance. It’s obvious to me, so I don’t see why saying is a big deal.
    .
    If you didn’t watch the game last night then your opinion on it is ignorant. You realize that right?
    .
    Status Quo.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Oh yeah. Why would you.
    Doesn’t change that I have a differing opinion than you guys and have no problem voicing that.
    Nash could have put any sort of game together last night and my mind would not have changed. I have seen 100′s of PHX games over the last few years and so I know exactly how Stevie plays. He never should be expected to drag your team to a win with his incredible offensive arsenal. That’s not him. He is a flow player and a guy who needs his players to play well (cough cough GORTAT!) in order for him to realize his potential.
    Also, I think you know nothing about Gortat. Like even a little bit if you think he does not benefit greatly from being on a team with Steve Nash.

  • http://abcnews.go.com/US/seattle-arrest-questions-cops-dash-cams/story?id=15595576 Allenp

    There is a difference between being wrong and being intellectually dishonest.
    Everybody is wrong.
    Some people are intellectually dishonest.
    The difference matters to me.
    It’s fine if it doesn’t matter to you.
    And honestly, NBK and I have a history. He and I used to have all out commenting wars back in the day. Name calling and everything. And we disagreed about everything.
    Then for some reason, we stopped.
    If I agree with dude, we agree. If we disagree, we disagree. I don’t need other people to agree with me. I just like it when I can trust them to be intellectually honest in a discussion which means admitting they don’t know something BEFORE I CATCH THEM IN THEIR LIES.
    Huge difference.

  • http://abcnews.go.com/US/seattle-arrest-questions-cops-dash-cams/story?id=15595576 Allenp

    I was born in 1980.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    First of all, Steve Nash has no affect on rebounding numbers. So ignorance doesn’t even begin to explain how stupid it is to make the argument that playing with Steve Nash affects that.
    .
    Second, Nash has taken over games, including this season.
    – Example 1) 3rd game of the year against Golden State, Nash had 21Pts and 9 Assits. Posting a +10 in the second half and hitting 5 of 6 shots in the 4th quarter. (Gortat had 5 points and 3 rebounds)
    – Example 2) Jan 18th against the Knicks, Nash had 25 and 11 – in the 4th he hit 6 free throws and jumper to ice the game. (Gortat had 11 points and 12 rebounds)
    – Example 3) Feb 6th against the Hawks, Nash had 24 and 11, leading the suns to a +13 in just the 3rd quarter that led to a comfortable 9 point win. (Gortat had 8 points and 9 rebounds)
    – Example 4) March 10th against Memphis, Nash had 11 and 15, leading the Suns to a +13 (+16 after the 1st quarter) 7 point win and hit the last basket of the game.(Gortat had 15 points and 9 rebounds)
    .
    Once again, you clearly are commenting from a place of ignorance. Nash has proven the ability to put the Suns on his back this season, in which he has been simply great. He just didn’t do it last night, in the biggest game of the season. So he doesn’t and shouldn’t get a pass.
    .
    And the Gortat issue will be proven next season, there is no reason for me to argue with someone who doesn’t know what they are talking about. It’s like arguing with an old lady about which video game is the most fun. You simply don’t know what your talking about old lady, leave it at that.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    And I’m fairly certain I’m younger than you. Regardless any excuse about when you were born being the reason you deserve a pass on your ignorant comments is irrelevant.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Hey LakeShow, just cause I know you hate me doing it, cosign nbk.

  • http://slamonline.com Datkid

    whoa…. I dip out for a second and this place is a war zone lol

  • http://slamonline.com Datkid

    lmao at caboose… I’ma gonna second that nbk cosign just to piss you off more.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Well your younger than I figured Allen, but you still got 9 years on me old guy so give me a break on my intellectual dishonesty. I wasn’t trying to lie. I was merely shrugging off the point you made on someone who would come close to Kobe as a two way player beside Jordan and to that, that is my fault. I never lie intentionally. You didn’t catch me in a lie. Quit acting like your my pops and I’m grounded for a month now. I spoke ill-informed. A lie would be something along the lines of “most people agree that Kobe was a better defender than Moncrief.” That’s false, and a lie. I spoke on something I didn’t know about and I shouldn’t have.
    nbk: I didn’t say it was impossible for Nash to carry a team. He can. He use to be able to more. Now it’s only a couple times a year that he does that. He “should” have done more last night, but i’m not going to ridicule him like you all are thinking should happen. For the reasons I listed several times I don’t think that should be expected of him.
    Your wrong on Nash having no impact on his rebounding numbers. Gortat would not rebound as much without Nash. You know why? Because Nash is why he is on the floor so much. He is a pick and roll center. Nothing more. He works well with Nash in the pick and roll and PHX milked that this season. He wouldn’t be playing 30+ mins a night and would therefor not be rebounding as well.
    This old lady goes hard!!! This old lady is also younger than you, not that that matters.
    Co-Sign the co-signers.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    My thoughts:
    -Nash should be criticized for not carrying the scoring load more. Aka: should not get a pass.
    -Nash however, should not be blamed entirely for the loss. If KD put up 27/7/3 (season averages) in a losing effort but Harden put up a 1-8 night, who would you blame more?
    -LakeShow has good points, I won’t fault him there. He just begs the question often. Especially on this thread.
    -nbk is a calm and reasonable commenter 95% of the time. He has a tendency to lash out at people when they do the same.
    -I know I don’t add too many points to any discussion, so I’m not asking that I be taken as seriously as nbk, Allen, Enig, or any of the vets here. Just view me as the Magic fan whose opinions skew more towards the nbk side and away from the JT side.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    What I was proving by posting just those 4 games is that Nash is not reliant on other plays (names Marcin Gortat) to take over a game. Sometimes he does it with passing – as example 4 shows, but he can also do it with scoring, even at the tender (or not so tender considering he’s more productive and healthier then when he was 25) age of 38.
    .
    Oh and the other evidence I have that my opinion comes from a place of something other than ignorance – I have watched 50+ Suns games every year since 1990. Which I would assume, counts for something.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Lake: You’ve got 3-4 years on me then (I was born in 92). Age is no reason to judge someone on their ability to comment intellectually. You will be judged for what you expressly say on this site, not for the context in which it was presented. Sorry if you disagree with that, but welcome to the Internet.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Gortat is actually the best defensive Center on the Suns Lakeshow. Which is why he would get more minutes than say, Robin Lopez regardless of Steve Nash. Gortat has actually measured out as one of the better defensive centers in the league ever since his second year. I mean you can make the excuse that his minutes in Orlando don’t really show you true value, but then I would just show you that he has been just as productive in Phoenix with more minutes. And offensively, the only real difference has been his shot attempts. Not his %. Which you would think, regardless of minutes, should change because he plays with Steve Nash after all, right?

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Thanks for the insult, Caboose. Excuse me while I cry in the car *smokey’s voice*

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Haha like I said, don’t take me as seriously as you :p
    Honestly, it’s just preference. I find myself disagreeing with you more often than say, nbk. Rarely in vitriolic ways, it really is just taste. That’s not to say I don’t agree with you at times (yes, Wilt is the most athletic player to ever play), just saying we view the game differently.
    Much respect though buddy.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    sh*t i used to think JT was a crazy person when he first came in here. Generally now though he’s less (or maybe I am?) confrontational and his opinion seems to differ from mine pretty minimally on most issues. Or we disagree from a conceptual stand point.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    That’s fair nbk. I don’t think I am any less knowledgeable about the “Nashean Suns” than you though. I loved watching them over the years and watched easily 50+ games a year of theirs since Nash came back. I think he deserved 1 of his 2 MVP’s. I think Kobe and Bron both deserved it as much as he did the two years he won, but I wasn’t upset with it. He did a special thing with his team that hadn’t been seen since Magic was creating quite the show at the Forum/Staples.
    Gortat is a good center, but imo Nash is what makes him from being “serviceable” to “good.” Of course he is a good rebounder and yes his defense is quite nice, but I feel like he would be lousy for say, someone like the Trail Blazers, or the Lakers for that matter. I’m not surprised that he is shooting the same % roughly as his career’s. He is a high percentage scorer straight up. I think Nash gives him more of his already usually high quality looks.
    I don’t feel I have an un-realistic appreciation or that I over value Nash. I know exactly what type of player he is and what he is capable of.
    Caboose, you come across very professional and mature. Good on ya.
    I still ain’t mad at myself for not knowing how good a defender Moncrief was. At best I would be going off youtube videos and I don’t know what’s worse; basing your opinions off some high lights on youtube or acting like you know what your talking about.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Nbk: That last point. It’s about how you guys frame issues. I can’t concretely describe it, but yeah, it’s all about conceptual framework.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Tension diffused. Shake hands gentlemen, we are friends again.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Caboose did I hear you are in NorCal?

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Off to lunch brb. Yes I take lunch at 3pm often..

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Yup, born and raised in El Dorado Hills (east of Sacto), going to school in Berkeley now.

  • http://www.soundcloud.com/tray-5 T-Ray

    Cosign myself

  • Rainman

    Lets give Nash his love for orchestrating the over achieving Suns this year, and ALMOST getting them to the playoffs. A healthy Grant Hill’s defence, and Channing Frye’s Spacing of the floor(for the second straight year) cuz have really made the difference.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Lakeshow, I understand where you are coming from, I don’t agree, and probably never will that you know as much about any Suns team or its players as I do (which is probably just my uber competitive nature idk). And our point that Nash still deserves blame stands because he does. Other than that, I apologize for getting offensive if I did.
    .
    Caboose, yeah it took me a while to understand where Taylor was coming from with some of his comments, I wasted a hefty amount of time arguing with him about a topic that we were just looking at from a completely different angle. On more than one occasion we ended up just agreeing about each’s point and accomplished nothing but an understanding.

  • Rainman

    what You ppl (AllenP and nbk) seem to forget or not know Is that Nash has got an ailment called spondylolisthesis. Causes Back pain and muscle tightness. He’s 39 years old, sometimes he feels like he can take over a game shooting, and sometimes he just cant (us Suns fan just call it if Nash is “feeling it” or not “feeling it”, u can clearly tell) And Nash, when he came into the game in the fourth, already had played 30 + minutes in the game, and his season average is 31-32 minutes. He still came in and got his team the lead, im pretty sure in the fourth, and one of his running jumpers in the lane got them within one. He cant take over games completely when u consider its the second last game of a GRUELLING condensed schedule -which saw another player of similar age (Grant Hill) who has taken pride in his health since coming to phoenix, never really get into it all season, and sat a lot of games to end the year- and Nash was still standing, playing, but he isnt 33 anymore(funny, most ppl wud say 25 for the average player, but 33 is appropriate for Nash) He needs talent around him to take shots late. Nash can do that sometimes, but not every single game, anymore. He played WELL above his season average in minutes last night, and there was only so much he can do. Btw, he didnt play great, its true, but played with tons of heart and gave his team a chance to win. Gortat doesnt play like a wuss? (which probably wudnt have happened had Frye been there to stretch the floor) Suns may be going into the Spurs game with their own destiny still in their hands. Just sayin.

  • Rainman

    Btw, Nash still tries on defence, he always has. He’s just not very good at it, never has been, lol.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    I am well aware of Nash’s back. Which ACCORDING TO HIM has not bothered him much this season at all. He says himself this is one of the healthiest seasons he’s had in his career. I am not letting anything go as an excuse for Nash’s game last night, he just had a bad game, he wasn’t very aggressive. Plain and Simple. As I said above “He is not the only reason the Suns lost at all, Gortat was putrid, and Gentry sticking with Sebastian Telfair for so long in the 4th was like a shot in the foot. So it’s not all on Nash, but as the best player on the team, I (and most everyone I talk to about basketball in Phoenix) expected more out of Nash.”

  • Rainman

    i agree, but lets call a spade a spade here. Did Nash have a good game? no. But regardless of what Steve says about his back (when he’s a future free agent mind u, how smart wud it be to say “my bak is murked” ? are we gonna have debate about him being a liar now?) his back is still an issue. It may be a healthy season overall, but to say its not an issue at all is ludicrous. He was playing the second last game of a GRUELLING condensed season, like i said. If u’ve watched the Suns all year, u can tell when Nash’s back is feeling well and when it isnt. Did u see all those good looks clank of the front rim? he clearly didnt have his core working in his favor. In contrast, he hit a big game winner in a huge game a week or two ago, against i think it was the Jazz actually. He hit big shots that game. Anyways, u guys were wondering why he didnt shoot more, given the fact that he is the teams best player, its was due to his spondylolisthesis. Any further questions?

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    You are speculating. I mean, I can tell you i’m not in the NBA because of my tendinitis or because I played other sports but that doesn’t make it true. All we know is that Nash didn’t play well last night, and wasn’t very aggressive. Reason’s be damned, that was the most important game of the season. If his back prevented him from playing to the best of his abilities it doesn’t change the fact that he didn’t play as good as he’s shown he’s able to. I don’t understand why we have to make excuses for the guy? can’t he just have a bad game and get some blame for once? Why do people constantly feel the need to defend him? Did you defend LeBron when he shot poorly and had a “sore elbow?” Are you defending Al Jefferson tearing his ACL and losing all of his lateral quickness for why he doesn’t protect the rim as a marquee big man should? There are hundreds of excuses, we could probably think of one for every player, none of them change reality. If you are going to reap the benefits of performing you damn sure are going to get criticized if you don’t. It’s only fair.

  • Rainman

    im not exactly speculating… anyone that knows anything about Nash and the Suns, have all agreed that his bak didnt look great. Did he have a bad game? I repeat. Yes. Yes. Yes. He wasnt agressive without reason tho, have u ever tried running around with a sore bak? let alone something to teh extent of a reoccuring issue year after year after year. The point is and i’ll quote u : ” Nash has proven the ability to put the Suns on his back this season, in which he has been simply great. He just didn’t do it last night, in the biggest game of the season”- And i’ve said, at times his back feels pretty good, and he’s ABLE to do that. at other times he relies on his teammattes to get the job done, and at times they have done that. Sometimes they dont (gortat?) But its not like anyone who covers the Suns gives him a pass…we all know he didnt do as great a job as he cud have getting Gortat better looks, other than have him shooting while running into the bigs that were swatting his shots left and right. He didnt have a great game…but im simply stating that as u are curious as to why he didnt play better, the answer is simple.

  • Rainman

    sorry, i shuda said u were wondering why he didnt play more Agressive (not better) and that answer is simple. We cant chalk up him not playing better completely on his back issues,not making great decisiosn with the ball is a mental , not physical thing, so he didnt play great… but playing such a physically demanding game with back issues will take away from a players aggressiveness, it just does.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Rainman: check the arrogance at the door. But you guys are debating separate things. Nbk doesn’t care about WHY Nash played poorly, he just claims he didn’t play to the level he needed to. Yeah, Nash’s back may have inhibited him (yes, that is the definition of speculating, by the way), but we don’t care. It’s performance that matters at this point in time, and given the strong games Nash played this year, he was clearly capable of playing better.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Caboose, that’s cool man. I’m just outside LA. Debating on transferring my career to NoCal or back to Seattle. Seattle is kind of my preferred choice right now. Want to convince me otherwise?
    nbk, I’m sure you know more about the Suns overall than I do. I’m not trying to get into a Suns fan argument. All i’m saying is I am not a novice on Nash or the Suns. Seen over 300 games of just theirs over the last 6 seasons easy.
    Rainman, I agree with allot of your points. I didn’t see that game so I can’t get into the specifics, but that is precisely what I was trying to say. Sometimes Nash has got it, sometimes he doesn’t. He’s not like Kobe where he is going to force it. He will sit back a little bit if his shot isn’t falling to see if someone else’s is. That’s not a bad thing imo.
    Finally, I don’t think that Nash should evade any criticism. I am upset with no person that feels Nash should have done more in the loss. They are right. That is the expectation we have for great players and that is what Nash is, but he isn’t ‘that guy’ anymore. His production is not the same as it was the past several years. He is getting old, slower than most, but as Chuck says, “(in Chuck voice)Fatha tiiime is undefeated”. He has a deserved pass in my book. If that makes me racist in your book, that’s fine. I don’t care what you think if your that stupid with your judgments.
    Did Nash have a bad game? Yes.
    Was it so awful it should be a widely remembered part of his legacy. No imo.
    Do players deserve breaks? I’m undecided. They aren’t entitled to us ‘giving’ them anything, but when a player is over 36 and is still a very productive player that is reason enough for me to give them one. It doesn’t have to be that way for you all.

  • Rainman

    After reading up on all the comments, i kinda feel like i’ve opened up a closed issue with my late comments lol, my bad y’all. But i just felt like there were reasons behind Nash not playing as well as we may have typically expected from him is all. Also comparing him to other greats in the game that are expected to dominate in different ways kinda irked (yes, i did say irk ) me. But @ CAboose: “It’s performance that matters at this point in time, and given the strong games Nash played this year, he was clearly capable of playing better.” Nash has tailed off slightly the last week or so, its late in the season, its not jsut any game he’s expected to be playing strong in, its the second to last game, im not all that surprised he didnt play magnificently actually. I was more surprised at Gortats inability to even slightly adjust his game to the length and strength of the Jazz bigs, really.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Haha if you are interested in NorCal, the only place I can actually argue for is San Fran. Sacramento is boring and about to be without an NBA team (I still think they’ll be up in Seattle soon).
    SF is pretty kickass though. I mean, everything is within walking distance, BART transportation is one of the best in the nation, diverse culture, beautiful city, lots of interesting surrounding areas (San Jose, Berkeley, Half Moon Bay, Six Flags), and a lot of pride in this city. Plus it’s Cali man, that’s still a pretty awesome argument.
    But I could argue just as strongly for Seattle, haha. Awesome city.

  • Rainman

    @ Lakeshow: cosign, i mean my argument wasnt that he shudnt get criticized, he does get criticized in fact, by all the people that cover the phoeniz suns specifically. Who actually takes ESPN seriously anyways? Just cuz Tony Parker may not get the credit he deserves on ESPN, doesnt mean he doesnt get the credit he deserves anywhere, right? But guys here were a little overly critical in my opinion.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    I’m not curious as to why he didn’t play better. And yes, I have tried to run with a hurt back, and also with a persistent injury/condition, I understand completely how hard it is to be athletic with that type of injury. But that just isn’t enough of an excuse for me to accept. He didn’t play how he should have. The reasons are just unfortunate if they are even legitimate.

  • Rainman

    my Tony parker reference was jsut an example in context, wasnt meant to come off as totally random, LOL

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Rainman still is arguing irrelevants things. Dude, we’re talking about effects, not causes.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Caboose, man you just made it harder! lol. My buddy is at USF Law right now and he is telling me about all the awesome stuff to do up there. Although… He does highly miss Seattle and cannot wait to move back. So… Man, no ones helping me decide lol!
    Rainman, it’s always hard playing catch up on Slam. The worse is when you get 10 people arguing you and your like “F this”, but you also want to get your 2 cents in. I completely agree on your astute observation of BSPN. We all know they suck why do we continue to act like they are legitimate.

  • Rainman

    Yeah… the fact is he didnt play all that great, the effect was his team lost. We agree there. But there are causes for everything. At the same time, i wasnt here trying to be a Nash apologist, but ppl were being overly tough on Nash

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    That’s fair Rainman, I think the dispute was that Nash was getting way more of a pass than other players. And yes ESPN is the Glenn Beck of the basketball world now.
    Lake, the beauty is you can’t go wrong : D

  • Rainman

    That was kinda my argument too, i wasnt really gonna give my 2 cents at all, untill comparisons to LeBron, and Kobe, and other superstars in that mold came about. Situations are completely different and completely differnet players, and completely different expectations, to me, at least. Anyways, im on my way out as it is so cudnt continue this even if i wanted to lol, take care y’all.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    SLAM should just run one thread where the whole purpose is for commenters to thank/appreciate/ridicule/remember/shoutout to other commenters from the past year without any actual debate. Maybe we could all do that on the last Post Up of the year?

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Lates Rain.
    Caboose, true that. Home is calling though. I think it’s back, back, to Seattle, Seattle. Too much Cali sun for me ;) haha.
    I’m out for the day too. Good Night Gentlemen!

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    It is funny how pointing out that Nash didn’t play well sparked so much debate and discussion. I don’t k ow about dude’s back he said it was fine. If it wasn’t that would change this gs but there is no proof of that in this game. Besides Nash has had a bad back foever.
    Like I said, you get the credit you should get the blame. But it doesn’t work like that for everyone. That is it.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    We all agree with that Allen.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    Perhaps Nash came up short in the most important game of the Suns season on a personal level. I certainly think Gortat did…(1 from 6 from the field and ALL 5 misses were blocked by Favors? Thats called ownership…). Grant Hill is now officially old. Frye didn’t want it with the Utah front court at all and didn’t even suit up. Markief was too young to do much in that situation.
    Kudos to the Suns organisation to getting it to the 2nd last game of the season before the curtain officially closed but Nash….you personally disappointed me as a fan in that Utah game.

    I think the Axe will fall on the Nash era in PHX shortly.

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