Should LeBron James Play Point Guard for the Miami Heat?

Heals, it’s funny, man. Because the LeBron had to check him in isolation, so it’s not like a team effort from the Heat is what shut down Rose. It was a pretty amazing thing to see.

Mike Bibby & Mario Chalmers guarded him, that’s how he got his season average. Whether you are right or wrong about LeBron ever guarding an opposing PG for more than a few minutes a game isn’t what I’m talking about because I agree with you that it wont happen. But it should.

So you don’t understand the concept of being locked up for the last 10 minutes of a game? Are you really trying to say him gettin his average but doing nothing at the end of the game is ok because hey “it’s what he averaged” – if your boss asks you to work overtime or get one more order done or teach an extra class or whatever you would just go stand wherever your supposed to be and not actually do anything because “I did the work I do on average so I didn’t actually have to be productive?”. Gtfoh.

It’s the law of averages? This isn’t a constant. When you play more minutes and get more touches you average will also likely change. Are you kidding me with this logic?

every significant Bulls stat was down in the playoffs except steals and blocks they stayed the same. Regular season/Playoffs fg% .462/.391 -ft% .743/ .736- points 98.6/ 87.2- rebounds 44.2/42.8- assists 22.3/18.2 and lastly 3point % .361/.313. The Bulls scored 11 fewer points but rose exceeded his avg, do you see what I’m getting at?

yes the stats you hold so dear to your heart are averages and thus are subject to adhere to the law of averages. the factors per game will differ (shot attempts/min/ ft%) but they all become quantifiable when averaged. That being said Rose exceeded his avg despite being “locked” down, where is the flaw in my logic? You can’t take what happens in a span of 4-5 minutes and say that it would be effective over the course of a full game, if anything the shock value was the catalyst; with the shift in the lineup it would force a more agile (i neither consider Haslem or Anthony to be agile but Haslem and Bosh have more agility than Anthony) big into the pick and roll thus quickening the rotation of the off ball defender, combine that with the lack of offensive output from the rest of the team and then the concept of Lebron actually being able to guard Rose is birthed like the illegitimate child it is.

Lol you are clueless. And you also don’t understand the law of averages. Which I hope you are actually talking about the Law of Large Numbers…… Because the “Law of Averages” is just an expression, it’s not a real law. Sorry it’s the belief that in the long run a probability will determine an average outcome or something along those lines. Which is a principle not a law, and it doesn’t pertain to a 7 game series against the heat in the year 2011 while wearing a certain shoe after eating certain meals And so on and so forth. There is no long term test with the various variables that will inevitably tell you of a certain players probability to perform a set number of statistics under those conditions. I’m sorry but no, what your saying is wrong. Relying on someones average to argue information like that is wrong. LeBron locked Rose up as well as any individual has in Derrick Rose’s professional career. Whether you “watched” it and chalk it up to his team is irrelevant. Whether he scored his average 23 points before that happened is also irrelevant. What happened, happened. We don’t know if or how sustainable said defense would be over an extended period because we simply cant replicate it.

The law of gravity is a principle. Don’t get caught up on the word Law, please, no trying to argue semantics. I never said it was a real Law. But yes the fact that Rose exceeded his avg every game, does play as a factor in determining if any defense will work long term. You readily argue about statistics with everyone on here but now you want to use the anomaly to justify long term replication. It’s foolish, and thats exactly the reason that people end up with tumors or anal leakage after minimal test trials of drugs and products. So if we can’t replicate it, then lets base this discussion on if it would be productive for Lebron to play defense on any pg for long stretches in a game. Logic dictates; no, because at sf his versatility is what helps him the most, either he is to big for small sf or to small and quick for big sf, and he has never shown the handles to warrant him penetrating against the halfcourt set regularly, in fact when defenses hone in on him he continually gets denied to access to the rim. Thats why his performance against Detroit was so special. One more point about him guarding Rose, if his team is being ineffective then it gives him all the more help, and gives him the chance to gamble on his defense on Rose. This is the same NBK that argues that Rose’s fg% has been negatively affected by lack of other offensive options on his team right? because he has to force up bad shots at the end of the shot clock. Same principle.

All the hate that Lebron gets about 4th quarter production, but Rose has a few late 4th quarter collapses himself and not just against Lebron.

You dont understand the key to the principle? Over a long period. Plus the countless variables that differ from one game to the next. You don’t know how to use statistics or understand statistics in context. Yes I use stats, when they are appropriate. Full game averages when talking about a small sample against a single defender are irrelevant unless you are using a comparison. Not using one “average” to decide the outcome of a completely unrelated test. If the defense were always LeBron then his average would be different. There is no constant for your law of averages to be a relevant theory. He always plays against different players. You would have to figure out the average defender, in the average defense under the average condition to make your argument about the law of averages. Not a series against the Heat.

The comparison comes from the size and vision. The style is what seperates the two. Magic was just that…Magic. LBJ is definitely not a PG, he is best suited as a SF…but because of his “talents”…he could very easily be the Magic of the Heat. This just means that he could get everyone else going. Imagine the problems it could create for defenses. Dwade would be the smallest player on the court at 6’4 230??? It would create matchup nightmares. Not to mention their defense would be crazy as well (not taking away from Chalmers or Cole), But the speed and strength of LBJ and Dwade at the 1&2 is scary. It puts Dwade in more of a scoring postition (which he needs to be at) and LBJ can get his own buckets when Dwade goes out in the 2nd.
I do agree that coach Spo needs to give the Heat a offense. Especially in the half court. W/O that, we will just see a repeat of the past 2 years. Playoffs with no rings.

lol to lebron shutting Rose down last season, more like Rose shooting the worst he’s ever shot during the entire playoff run because of multiple sprained ankle injuries limiting his game, therefore making it easy on lebron. Lebron is not shutting down any pg and he’s a overrated defender, that’s why kd torched his a22 last time they played and melo gets the best of him when they play some times.

“It’s extremely hard,” Rose acknowledged, “when a 6-8 guy can easily defend you.”

haha you guys must really hate LeBron.

Based on what Durant has done for OKC and the criteria for the MVP, yes he may have a chance. If this is an argument about who is having a better year and you dont think its LBJ, then im sorry but you really dont know basketball.

Revisionist history going on about the 2011 ECF here.

I like this idea. It would be fitting for him seeing his willingness to share the ball and great court vision. It will also free Wade up more often to score from the wing. I think the point made in the 2003 McDonald’s All-American game is something people should realize. LeBron has always been happy to share and is more comparable to Magic than any other player.

I think it’s funny that people are arguing the FACT that Lebron shut down Rose in that series. And yes, he only guarded him in the fourth quarters. I don’t know what Rose was averaging in the first 3 quarters (I didn’t read all the comments and I assume the Stats Sensei nbk will find it) but in the fourth he couldn’t score at the same clip. Maybe it was fatigue from having to do all the scoring throughout the game, maybe it was lingering injuries and maybe it was Lebron’s height and athleticism as Rose himself alluded to. We’ll never know but the FACT remains that it happened. Do I think Lebron could do it for an entire game while keeping up his own contributions on offense? No, but he may not have to either. Maybe it will be good enough to limit Rose while Wade and Bosh do the bulk of the scoring.

Yes it is a FACT that Lebron played Rose on D in the fourth quarter. It is a fact that in none of the games Rose scored below his avg. You guys do understand in order to score 20-21 ppg you need to score 5 points a quarter . Rose for his career avg 17 shots per game while making only 8, thats 2 shots made per quarter averaged out. That is over a sample size of 274 regular season games. In order to appease everyone that claims Lebron shut him down I have gone over the play by play of every 4th quarter of that series that the Heat won even the overtime, Lebron in total stole one pass that Rose made, and he wasnt the on ball defender. Wade blocked more shots of Rose’s in the 4th quarters and Haslem drew the bulk of the offensive fouls. I’m not saying that Lebron didn’t guard him well, ONCE AGAIN- Lebron played good D on Rose in the 4th, but that doesnt mean that he should draw the assignment of guarding the other teams pg consistently. The same goes for the couple of plays he had to guard Gasol, it doesnt make him the ideal candidate to guard opposing centers. Spot duty at best. One last question if he is the defensive stopper that everyone claims him to be, then how come he didnt draw the Dirk assignment? and to NBK you better off staying away from the offensive end with Lebron, after watching Kidd shut him down against the Mavs, it wouldnt be pretty. I just wish you would stay consistent, you quote stats to put Lebron as the front runner in the MVP race (which I agree to a point), but then try to discredit them when they don’t fit your agenda. Lebron playing point is a novelty, to try to recreate that on a larger scale will only expose more holes in the Heat’s offensive set. If Rose gets healthy before they meet in the playoffs I expect him to score around 21-22 ppg, I also expect the rest of the Bulls to under-perform.

hmmm nbk, I think shutup is not completely wrong about the meaning of averages and how they affect the analysis of these few games and 4th quarters. They are not a perfect tool for analysis, but there is something to be said of regression to the mean. There is a legitimate interpretation of the data that would state that there was just a regression to the mean, and that it was not related to Lebron’s defense. Either Rose just regressed to the mean, either it was a team effort, or Lebron shut Rose down but cannot do this kind of assignment all game long (stamina limits, whatever), or his team is just better off with Lebron guarding other positions, or Spoelstra is dumber than a box of hammers. It all boils down to: Can Lebron guard elite PGs for a whole game? (we might never know if Spoelstra does not take the gamble). If yes, is his team better off when he guards opposing PGs, or when he guards opposing wing players? I honestly haven’t watched the Heat enough. I do know that Lebron has a disadvantage when posting up smaller players, and that his new face up shot should make things more interesting this year.

Shut up won (2).

Dang Shutup and NBK if they related basketball in math class I probably would have done a whole lot better. LOL! I personally do not think Lebron should play PG, I remember a few times this season Paul, Rondo, and Ty Lawson had him spinning and sliding all over the place….it was hilarious. I think Wade actually does a better job guarding PG’s; he’s closer to their height and stronger. And guarding Rose last year was very much a team effort headed by Lebron. He slowed Rose down, but he would still get past him and that is when the rest of the team would trap or close off the lane resulting in bad shot attempts and turnovers. I think if they meet up this year it will be different, now that Rose has developed a three, they can utilize the pick and roll and set screens to free up Rose or if the run the two guard back court Rose can play off the ball.

Shutup and other Lebron haters still haven’t addressed Rose’s comment on James’ defense. As much as I hate to admit it, NBK is right. Rose played worse with James on him. Rose admitted that it was likely Lebron that contributed to his poor 4th quarter play. How much of a stan can you be if you won’t admit what the player already has?

So it’s not logical to assume that Rose’s entire game average would decline if James guarded him the entire game? That doesn’t even make sense. If Lebron was effective in the short time he spent guarding Rose, you’d have to go out of your way to assume he wouldn’t for an entire game. And you cannot possibly know what was going on in Rose’s head so to use your assumptions as a counter argument to a direct quote from Rose himself is just silly. All you and I know is what he said, you don’t know him or haven’t spoken to him to know what he meant. Apparently some of us watched the games and saw different things. The one thing we can’t dispute is Rose’s view of Lebron’s defense.

You are dense. It’s not bout how many points he scores or how many assists he gets. (more shots + more touches = production its that simple) If his efficiency completely falls off a cliff he is hurting his team. LeBron LOCKED Rose up in the finals. He forced him to shoot 6%. The team helped, but it was still the same team that helped in the same games that rose shot 35% or above. LeBron’s defense was irrefutably superior to everyone else, whether he was on pace to get his scoring average or not. You are an idiot if you don’t understand at this point. A complete idiot.

.Rose’s FG attempts vs the Heat in the playoffs – 22 – 23 – 19 – 27 – 29.
.Rose’s scoring #’s vs the Heat in the playoffs – 28 – 21 – 20 – 23 – 25.
.Can I be anymore clear?