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Wednesday, May 2nd, 2012 at 10:00 am  |  181 responses

Post Up: Coast To Coast

The Celtics and Sixers steal games on the road while the Lakers take a 2-0 lead on Denver.

Celtics 87, Hawks 80 (Series tied 1-1)

I want to slap Hinrich’s glasses off his face SO BAD. –Chris Mintz-Plasse on Twitter

For those in the dark, Mintz-Plasse is the dorky cool actor who played McLovin’ in Superbad. He’s a big-time Celtics fan too. You could kinda see where the young man’s hostility was stemming from. His beloved team had lost Game 1. His squad was without the suspended Rajon Rondo for Game 2. And the aforementioned Hinrich was, in fact, hitting just about every shot he put up.

As a team, the Hawks kept McLovin and the Cs faithful relatively quiet for the first two quarters. Yeah, Paul Pierce did his thing (16 points in the first half), but overall, Atlanta had just enough to hold Boston back. Aside from Hinrich’s steady work, Jeff Teague was amazing, Joe Johnson was adequate and Josh Smith was all over the stat sheet as usual. 44-41 Hawks at the break.

Hard to believe how the Hawks have collapsed in the halfcourt. –David Aldridge on Twitter

The TNT reporter’s tweet came somewhere in the third quarter. But to be completely honest, both sides were pretty shabby in the frame. Boston shot a putrid 26% while Atlanta’s 33% wasn’t much better. However, when the fourth came, the home team’s futility hit new lows. Unlike in Game 1, the Hawks looked like a frazzled flock here. Poor play executions. Awful clock management. Terrible shot selections. And worst of all, zero answers for Pierce (36 points, 14 rebounds). By the time the Celts had a 79-72 lead, Paul was strutting around with vintage swag. Final score: 87-80, Boston.

44 mins tonite to old for this I need a bed right now!!! –Paul Pierce on Twitter

Now the series moves to New England for Game 3 on Friday. The Hawks blew their chance to take a 2-0 lead on the short-handed Celts. The team knows it’ll now have to steal one at fired-up TD Garden. What it doesn’t know just yet is how bad Josh Smith’s ankle is after tweaking it on Tuesday. JSmoove didn’t talk to reporters after the game, but the buzz was that he was able to walk around under his own power—albeit gingerly.  —DeMarco Williams (@demarcowill)

Sixers 109, Bulls 92 (Series tied 1-1)

It was a game, and then it wasn’t. That’s about the best way to sum up Game 2 of the Chicago Bulls-Philadelphia Sixers first round Playoff series Tuesday night at the United Center.

After losing Derrick Rose to a torn ACL in the final minute and change of Game 1 last Saturday, the biggest question for Chicago was how would the team’s mindset be without their leader to guide them. Of course, the team said all the right things in terms of how they’d respond without DRose, but talk is cheap and Philly put them to the test, as you’d expect them to.

The first 24 minutes of action was a tight affair that saw 8 ties and 12 lead changes between the two clubs. Philly led by no more than 3 points and the Bulls were up by as many as 10.

But then the 3rd quarter happened.

The Sixers shot lights out, outscoring the Bulls 36-14. Philly shot 15-22 from the field in the quarter compared to Chicago’s paltry 5-20. It’s not very often the outcome of an NBA game is decided in a single quarter, but that’s what happened to the Bulls. After playing on emotion and adrenaline in the first two quarters, when it was time to actually play basketball, Chicago just wasn’t ready.

The postgame locker room felt just like it did on Saturday afternoon when DRose got hurt. Like someone had just died.

Most people gave Chicago a shot to win this series even without Rose, but Philly did what they were supposed to do in the Playoffs and got a split on the road. More importantly, they have momentum going back home for Game 3. The Bulls could’ve psychologically taken Philly completely out of the series by winning Game 2.

But after Tuesday night’s bad loss, the worry now is if Chicago’s been taken out psychologically instead.

The Bulls won’t have a whole lot of time to get themselves together mentally or emotionally, either. The team will only get one practice in on Thursday before they have to leave for Philly to face the Sixers at home on Friday. —Bryan Crawford (@_BryanCrawford)

Lakers 104, Nuggets 100 (LAL leads 2-0)

Tim Grover leaned back against the wall and watched him go to work. Kobe Bryant—fitted in a perfect gray italian suit, was still full of energy. He left the media room following his press conference and took a few photos with fans lucky enough to have access to the back hallways of Staples Center, giving out a few hugs along the way as well. Grover, the renowned trainer who built his name in the business through his work with Michael Jordan and countless other NBA players, trailed behind Kobe. Dressed in a designer sweater and carrying a briefcase, Grover was very pleased. “As long as Kobe’s healthy, I’m happy,” he explained.

Bryant was sensational on Tuesday night against the Nuggets in Game 2, playing with remarkable speed and intensity—running breaks and pump-faking defenders into and-ones. It was a lovely sight, 38 points on 15-29 shooting, leading the Lakers to a 104-100 victory and 2-0 series lead. The point total was Bryant’s highest in the Playoffs since game five of the 2010 NBA Finals—the rest he received over the past few weeks has come into play. “It’s helped tremendously,” he said. Bryant posted up on each elbow of the key throughout the game, taking full advantage of smaller defenders like Corey Brewer. During one sequence, Bryant bounced Brewer off him before knocking down another bucket over him. “Look man, I’m just stronger than him,” Bryant joked. “I’m bigger.”

The Nuggets have not held a lead at any point during the first two games, struggling again during the first quarter on Tuesday, and falling behind 12-3 in the early minutes. Ty Lawson helped Denver stay in the game with much better play in Game 2, finishing with 25 points and 7 assists. Denver cut the Laker lead to 95-91 with a little over 2 minutes left in the fourth quarter. After Kenneth Faried lost the ball on the offensive end, Kobe led a break down court and with defenders draped over him near the bucket, he dished it to Andrew Bynum for a three-point play that killed Denver’s momentum. Bynum finished with a career Playoff-high of 27 points and added 9 rebounds and two blocks. He was consistently double-teamed in the post, opening up space for Bryant and Pau Gasol.

Despite the Lakers coasting at times, Denver fought back with their rapid pace, converting quick baskets and making it a competitive contest. If they’re going to have any shot at turning the series around, Lawson believes it’s going to happen on the defensive end.

“We have to get stops,” Lawson said. “You can’t run after they get a dunk or hit a three. It’s easy to run when you get rebounds.” Game 3 is Friday night in Denver. —Nima Zarrabi (@NZbeFree)

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  • Heals

    It ain’t easy being green, but damn it feels good this morning…

  • vtrobot

    You know that Rajon is gonna be ready to mess around again in Game 3.

  • Myung

    Heals, you cheer for the franchise with the most NBA titles under its belt. It ain’t easy being a Hawks fan, a Warriors fan, a Bobcats fan, a Kings fan (I can go on and on)… but no one’s going to feel sorry for Bostons fans. C’mon, son! :)

  • ClydeSays

    Nice win for the C’s. McLovin, I know exactly what you mean…

  • Bola

    @ Heals, green allday, errday. Told hawk fans pierce was gonna go beast mode on them.

  • http://juan.garcia@computershare.com Miami Joe

    Smells like a Lakers vs Celtics III Finals is in the air.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Hawks looked terrible in the halfcourt. It was shocking how bad they looked. Hero ball everywhere, a lack of focus or planning. I don’t if Larry Drew was messing up or if the players weren’t executing his game plan that was ridiculous for a veteran team. They seemed to have no clue how to get into their sets. No on stepped up and get things running, and it devolved into a one-on-one fest.
    And the whole “team” approach is getting exposed somewhat in Denver. That’s cool when your team is good enough and clutch enough to perform in big moments. Or when they can feed off the crowd. But most of the time going with a win by committee approach depends too much on some random cat not built for the pressure to excel in a pressure moment. That can work for a game or maybe two, but over a seven game series it’s hard.
    No one on Denver’s team is the kind of guy who knows how to get buckets regardless of what the defense is doing, and can manufacture points. No one.

  • Heals

    Bos didn’t even play good and still won short-handed (understatement!), I’d say that’s making things anything but easy. Who said I want sorrow for my squad, plus I used up all my “feeling bad for” energy on Sump and Rose. Hey Ivan how’d yo like that “dirty” block by Ticket at the end? Props to Quis and Dooling making some plays too…

  • HAMMER

    Naw. It smells like sh!t in the air. And unfortunately, its coming from Chicago.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Ok, since I got accused of NEVER giving my own opinion yesterday, I feel I should redress that issue.
    -How on earth is a supposed All-Star in Roy Hibbert not beasting on Glen Davis and Earl Clark? Dude should be dropping 20 a game easily, not 6. I’ve said this for a while, he’s a wildly overrated player.
    -The Knicks are getting swept. Sorry Orange.
    -LeBron James provides much more pesky defense than Shane Battier. If the Heat meet the Thunder in the Finals, Durant will have trouble getting 20 a game if LeBron is exclusively on him.
    -I still say Spurs make the Finals. That team is way too well organized, disciplined, and coached for them to flame out. Tony Parker absolutely All-NBA First Team.
    -The Hawks and the Thunder tend to run the same halfcourt offense: nada. They give the ball to a player, pass it around the perimeter and about 50% of the time, find a semi-open but very long jumper.
    -The 76ers could win this series. I’m not kidding. The Bulls looked like a broken team last night, very much unlike their regular season games without Rose.
    -The Lakers look better than I thought they would. The chemistry is stronger than I think most of us expected, so I’ll say I was wrong about that.
    -The Magic can still win their round. So many people say the Pacers are the most underrated team. Two things: 1. No, that’s still the Spurs. 2. They’re one of the most overrated teams. Watch them play, it’s not pretty.
    Is that enough for you guys? Can you stop whining that I cosign people now?

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Durant usually gets his against LeBron, for what ever reason. I don’t think OKC will worry that Durant won’t get his average against the Heat.
    Paul Pierce is the truth. I like the Celtics to have a competitive series with Miami if both teams make it that far. Josh Smith is much improved and the Hawks missed him in the 4th quarter, but I think this series is over in 6 games at most.

  • 602Shorty

    I still think the Sixers/Bulls series is going to seven games but the Sixers will prevail in the end. Offensively the Bulls just looked like lost children with the exception of Noah. You can’t win if he’s your best offensive option. Celts are going to take the series easier than I thought. Same with Lakers.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Shorty: Yeah, of all the people I would have guessed to carry Chicago’s offensive focus, Noah would be….somewhere below Brewer but above Asik. Philly gotta stay hungry; hopefully Collins has something to say.

  • Drig

    I still hope OKC gets bounced by Dallas. I want Kobe and the Lakers go through Dirk and the Mavs, Duncan and the Spurs (nostalgia ) and finally KG/LBJ for the ‘chip. Because this is the last season all of them are going to be more or less at their optimal production level.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Going off Drig, does it feel like this could be the “last run” for a good number of teams this year? Lakers, Celtics, Spurs (maybe), Mavericks, Magic.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Is Rose going down the same path as Chris Paul. Phenomenal third years, then major injury for both. CP in middle of 5th year, Rose at end of 4th.

  • Fat Lever

    As a Sixer fan, it brought me great joy to see Noah being the primary offensive option last night. I don’t care if he goes 25/25, I’ll let that happen. Sixers showed a lot of heart last night. This is how Jrue needs to play every game, aggressively! And The Villain(ET) was showing his all-around game, loved it. This is why Sixer fans don’t understand Doug’s reluctance to play him minutes.

  • add

    i know this sounds arrogant but i think the sixers could beat the bulls with rose, he had at least 5 different injuries this year

  • http://www.soundcloud.com/tray-5 T-Ray

    AllBall I think it might be worse for Rose unfortunately. He uses way more torque when he drives and when he jump stops and explodes it’s incredible.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    If Rose comes back how CP has (less athleticism, explosiveness) it will be a lot more noticeable, as Rose game is largely based on those factors. Obviously he has improved as a point guard but it was his strength and speed combined with his finishing ability which made him so tough.

  • http://www.soundcloud.com/tray-5 T-Ray

    Agreed it will be very noticeable for those reasons alone. The Bulls just looked lost in the second half. They can’t let Phily run on them or they will lose. Another note as much as I hate the Cs Pierce is that dude one of the most underrated stars of my generation. I wouldn’t be surprised if that series was over in 5 now depending how long Smith is out.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Where’s nbk? I wouldn’t mind a disagreement. Fatherhood has mellowed you out ha just playing.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    So Philadelphia has a legit shot at winning this series, neither team is good offensively at all. Surprised more people aren’t picking the 76ers anyway, since that conversation I had with many of you who said Chicago isn’t even a playoff team without Rose.
    .
    And I wanna get some people’s opinion,
    . What is more important to the Lakers, rest before round 2, or Metta World Peace?
    .
    Should the team lose a game or two to ensure they get Metta back sooner?

  • http://www.slamonline.com megatron

    Caboose, I’m not entirely sure because I haven’t seen very much of the orlando/indiana series but from what I’ve seen, Big baby gets up underneath hibbert, pushes him farther out, crowds him, and makes him very uncomfortable. And Hibbert isn’t really taking advantage of that cause baby has quick enough feet to keep hibbert in front of him.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    I read that about losing to get Artest back for round 2. He gives them another body to put on Durant or even Nowitzki, but I think they will lose a game or two in this series because they can’t keep up with the Nuggets in Denver any way.

  • http://www.slamonline.com megatron

    lol nbk, I was actually thinking the same thing last night about MWP. If they go up 3-0 I think it would actually help to drop a game, but they won’t do it cause its the playoffs and you don’t take those chances.

  • http://slamonline.com Nella

    John Lucas III – keep pounding the ball, dribbling out of double teams instead of passing, and never get an entry pass into the post. My TV won’t be upright much longer if he keeps that crap up. My fears are true – he’s not a NBA caliber player in the playoffs, when the court gets smaller and defenses actually care.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Hibbert cannot guard the Magic in pick and roll either. Those two factors are why his minutes have been limited @Megatron.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Slick Ric

    The two old dudes Kobe and Pierce got busy yesterday. I used to think Paul was overrated and didn’t deserve the HOF but the guy steps up every time when needed.

  • Fat Lever

    I never understood 2 things:

    1) Why the media never even gave the Sixers a shot at making this series competitive when the regular season record indicated that Philly was a solid matchup with Chicago, even with Rose in the lineup. Then most of them still said the Sixers don’t stand a chance against Chicago w/o Rose.

    2) Why so many people in Chicago were upset with what ET said. The tougher team to beat for Philly is Miami. We are 1-10 against them in the last 2 seasons. We don’t match up with them. It’s clear. Now people want to say he provided bulletin board material for Chicago. Bull$h!t(pun intended)! If you need bulletin board material in the playoffs, you need to check yourself as a player.

    This will be a tough series regardless of whether Rose is playing or not, but to totally discredit the Sixers in this matchup is asinine. And, I’ve advocated blowing this team up, and I still believe that is best for the long term, but I’ve found that I can never root against this team, even if the short term gains outweigh the long term ones.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    And Paul Pierce is somehow underrated. He’s still a top 10ish player but I don’t feel like he gets that respect.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Because he is only a top 10ish player when completely healthy and motivated. Which during the regular season will happen very rarely (100% and motivated at same time), and often when Rondo doesn’t play and he knows he has to do more.

  • eyal

    So far, the lakers have confirmed everything I feared, they are really really dangerous. 3 incredibly solid offensive and defensive options and they are confident as hell. I picked them to come out of the west and beat miami in the finals (the heat have no answer for bynum+gasol and kobe can light up Dwade). Sixers-Bulls series is up in the air, but then, that was the case even with rose in the lineup…

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Don’t you think we should stop doing that though? He shows every single year that he is still elite when it matters. And when his team loses something he picks up the slack, no matter what it is they are missing. In the 13 games Rondo missed Pierce averaged what, 9APG with his 18PPG? The guy does everything the Celtics need him too.

  • http://itsahardwoodlife.blogspot.com omphalos

    Bass is going to cost the Celtics a series sooner or later… he’s absolutely awful defensively, the way he contests shots is just begging for a foul to be called. Imagine how well the Celtics could have been with a healthy Jeff Green?

  • http://www.yahoo.com The Fury

    The Sixers success in the playoffs depends on Evan Turner’s contribution. Indiana should keep on using George Hill, because he’s got that Spur blood in him and sadly Rose will never be the same player again (sigh).

  • http://www.twitter.com/hurstysyd Hursty

    Pierce deservedly has a reputation for coming up ‘clutch’ in big games. More so than other players.
    For what it’s worth, I think Philly can take this series from Chicago now. They’ve stolen home-court.
    I also think Memphis can come back and win game 2 today, and still take the series.

  • http://www.yahoo.com The Fury

    …and Paul Pierce is not called the Truth for nothing.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    I agree megatron, Baby is playing solid D, but shouldn’t an All-Star center with 6 inches on a guy with short arms be able to score pretty effortlessly? I guess I was just complaining about Hibbert’s status as an All-Star XD

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Pierce has unwavering confidence, too. Some guys just claim to have it. In his head I think he believes he is on that LeBron/Durant/Kobe/Wade level of elite wing players.
    What do you think Boston’s chances are against Miami if they meet?

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    depends on Rondo. If Rondo is playing confidently and is being a threat to score than Boston has probably a 25% chance, if he doesn’t, they will probably get crushed.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    It depends on Pierce too. Rondo will need to average at least 15/12 and Pierce about 25/5/5 for the Celts to have a chance.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    If that’s the case then Boston doesn’t stand a chance. Pierce hasn’t put up 25 5 5 against LeBron since 2009. He’s still top 10ish, when he’s guarded by everyone else.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    My long way of saying, the Heat will beat the Celtics haha

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Evan Turner needs to be the Sixers main ball handler and play maker in the half court IMO. When the ball is in his hand he plays to his best and the Sixers need the best E. Turner they can get. That’s probably my biggest gripe against Collins right now. WTH just play this kid 35+ mins a night every game. He can play the 1,2,3 so it’s not difficult to find him play time.
    Celtics looked good last night. Hawks need to figure out how to score in tight defenses in some fashion. I hope J-Smooth is okay.
    I’m afraid the Bulls are not going to do what they did in the regular season in the playoffs without Rose. They need him for success in the playoffs badly. Boozer was no where to be found against the intimidating Sixers front line.
    Lakers looked exactly how I expected them to at home. That game was not close like it appears it was. The Lakers were just turning it on when they needed to offensively and defensively. They will lose one game in Denver. Not sure about both. But it doesn’t matter. Either you get more rest as a team or you get Metta back for (hopefully) OKC.
    Kobe missed his last 4 shots otherwise he would have had a much more impressive 15-25 shooting night.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    And rather funny, nbk, you gave Heat 80% and Lakers 15% on making the Finals in TPU yesterday, that equates to the same likelihood I had of Miami and LA in the Finals: 12%

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    I think Pierce will fare better against LeBron this time around. Not the way they used to go back and forth, but not the 0-13 type beginnings to games he has had against him. Have no logic to back that thought up how ever. Pierce just seems rejuvenated.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Caboose yeah, i didn’t actually do the math to figure out what it came out too, that sh*ts funny

  • MUBWAR

    guys the Celtics are the worst rebounding team in the league. Not just def rebounds but off as well. teams like that don’t go far

  • 602Shorty

    ^^Unless Lebron is pissed about his DPOY snub and goes crazy defensively on Pierce just to make a point.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Lakeshow, what would you rather have, rest or MWP back?

  • http://www.slamonline.com Slick Ric

    LOL @ eyal & fat lever; With Rose, this series would go no further than five. The Bulls were feeling confident in themselves with the team back at full strength and with their original starting line-up the balance was too much for Philly which was displayed in the first game. NO Bulls player ever said they were going to use ET statement as motivation nor bulletin board material.

  • 602Shorty

    My bad that was for Allball

  • http://www.dimemag.com biggaveli

    am im the only one thinks(god help me for sayin this) but Mcgee needs more time in the game. I dont know what george karl was thinkin with the line up of koufos,Mozgov,& al cost the game..that how the lakers get ahead. The line up of ty, brewer, Gallinari,Manimial, Mcgee is quick and althetic.gave the Lakes serious problems…

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Yeah, good stuff nbk. Probably shouldn’t mention that though since apparently I’m pretty hated around here for agreeing with stuff you say. (Read the Scottie Pippen thread, that stuff got pretty funny).

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Nah, I’m with you biggaveli, Nuggs gotta counter with their own strengths: athleticism and peskiness. Koufos…yeah Koufos is not athletic.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Pierce has looked better against Bron, but not at his old level. Celts can win though because they play their game.
    Heat vs Lakers would be the most interesting Finals to me.
    Every matchup would have interesting potential.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    I saw that thread, people don’t like being disagreed with.. Once you see people claiming “I already demolished both of you.” that’s when you know the argument is fruitless and the people arguing are uhm a little dense.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    I also want to see Lakers v Heat. Lakers size would be hell for Miami. Miami’s speed would be hell for LA. I have goosebumps.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Haha I’ve noticed most of the new guys here tend to devolve into stuff like that. Vets know at the end of the day, nobody’s gonna cede; just say your point and accept the disagreement. And Lakers Heat would be an awesome matchup. But I still say Spurs come out of the West.

  • 602Shorty

    @Caboose I just thought Charlie’s comment was funny. It wasn’t anything personal against you. The other dude genuinely got upset, which I also thought was funny.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Haha no worries shorty, I’m not mad at you, or charlie for that matter. Laugh at the comment sure, but don’t come after me because I give credit where it’s due. That’s what bothered me. Plus charlie is just dense. But you’re good shorty, you know what you’re doing.

  • http://slamonline.com datkid

    The only time Lebron’s lost to kobe w/in the last 3 years has been when he doesn’t have the full team around him. (his loss recently w/o bosh). and while nobody on the heat can stop andrew bynum nobody on the lakers can stop Lebron OR Wade while both can do an excellent job on kobe. and neither andrew bynum nor gasol is really quick enough to stop bosh so if he stays aggressive he should get buckets as well. Plus the lakers are a terrible TERRIBLE 3 point shooting team. which is exactly the kind of team the heat need to meet in the finals.

  • http://www.soundcloud.com/tray-5 T-Ray

    Some people on here just get too butt hurt. Me and nbk were debating about the Mavs upsetting OKC. Granted it wasn’t heated but we were able to agree to disagree.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    That’s what experienced commenters do T-Ray, it’s impressive when you see a debate settle peacefully. JT has come a long way in that regard; he’s fun to watch debate now. No offense if you’re reading JT, all good from me.

  • http://www.soundcloud.com/tray-5 T-Ray

    Yea guys like you, nbk, JT, Enig, diesel, Lakshow etc know how to have a conversation without digging into personal insults.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    datkid, Kobe and Bron have never met in the playoffs. We have no idea who would do what to who, how. We have NO idea.
    nbk, mmmh. Whatever. Haha. Artest is my guy. I want him when we’re going to battle, but at the same time he isn’t the missing link to making this team unstoppable or somehting. He is just a nice bonus. I wouldn’t mind losing 1 or 2 to the Nuggets. Not on purpose per say. You never want to lose in the playoffs on purpose. That’s just plain stupid, but lets just say no one in Lakerdom would be pissed with a loss or two in the first round. They shouldn’t worry too much about playing at full effort in Denver IMO.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    That’s kind T-Ray, I wouldn’t put myself in that group yet.
    And Lake, looks like my prediction to ride with the underdog isn’t exactly paying off…

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Lake, not saying MWP is their missing link, but he guards Durant as good as anyone.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Caboose: Yo, shove it bro. Word to your momma and kill baby animals and stuff! Grrrr. Lmao, just playing. Like you admitted, you were riding with the under-dog. They are “under” dogs for a reason. They ain’t as good.
    Ronnie does as good a job as anyone on Durant. Period. I obviously want him there for the full series, but I think we’ll lose one or two in OKC anyway so I’m not too worried about having him back for the first or 2nd game. It would be nice, but not critical IMO.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    I’m in love with that Jru Holiday cat. I have yet to find a (major) weakness in his game. He shoots the long ball with ease, has a respectable mid-range game, slick handles, long wingspan and has the potential to be a lockdown defender one day. He may not be the prototypical PG in the CP/DWill mode but I rather have him running the point than guys like Calderon, Conley and Lawson. Also, he’s shown the ability to guard the 2 spot, a huge plus.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    My only complain about Holiday is he becomes very passive. He should never relinquish his role as the main playmaker/aggressor on that Philadelphia team. They can live with his mistakes while he learns how to really run an offense, it’s not like they are very good anyway. I expect he makes another jump next season.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Haha you sounded like a lot of the new guys there Lake…but yeah, Lawson and Gallo aren’t having nearly the impact I thought they would.
    JT: his weakness is consistency. And you’d really take him over Lawson? That’s the only one I’d disagree with.

  • http://www.soundcloud.com/tray-5 T-Ray

    Lol @ Lakeshow
    Denver is going to give us fits if they run consistently. They don’t wanna get in a half court battle obviously. I see them taking game 4

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    I’d take Holiday over Lawson every single minute of every single day of every single week in every single year.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Why did it take Collins so long to insert ET in the starting lineup over that Jodie Meeks character? It’s obvious that Phili’s offense is a 1,000 times better with him in the lineup because he gives them another scoring/ballhandling/playmaking threat that they sorely need alongside Holiday. CHI has no answer for him defensively at the 2 spot expect for when Thibs goes with Brewer but that hampers them offensively.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Lawson played well last night and I expect him to for the series, but for some reason he had that huge dud in the first game. Gallo is a strange player. He has a ton of skill. But it’s almost as if the skill only comes in a whiff and then leaves. He is ballin out his mind one second, handles crazy, quick, athletic, great shooter, then BOOM. He is non-existent and can’t dribble a ball to save his live and looks very slow and un-athletic. Can’t shoot. He needs to just spend the summer with some veteran NBA player(s) learning how to consistently do what he is capable of doing.
    I would take Jrue over Ty, but that’s not by a wide margin, both have allot of improvement to do.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Caboose, hell yeah. inconsistency is Lawson’s middle name. At least when Holiday is struggling offensively, you can count on him to bring it on the defensive end. I can’t say the same for Lawson. Just imagine the kind of numbers Holiday puts up running Denver’s offense.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Fair enough, I guess I was suffering from KLove syndrome: just looking at the offensive numbers.

  • http://www.soundcloud.com/tray-5 T-Ray

    I would take Jrue because of his size and ability guard big point guards.

  • http://www.soundcloud.com/tray-5 T-Ray

    JT I think Collins did that to have bench production. I thought it was counterproductive myself due to ETs playmaking ability.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    It really could depend on the system though. Example, I think Lawson would do better in the Suns’ system than Holiday would. However, I guess if you think about it, Holiday’s style adapts to a far greater number of teams. I have been convinced.

  • Fat Lever

    As someone who has watched almost all Sixer games this year and has put up with this roller coaster ride of a season, let me explain:

    1) About Jrue, he has all the talent in the world to be a star in the NBA, and on top of that, has the work ethic as well. The issue is his aggression. Too many times he backs off when he should be attacking his defender. This is what is so frustrating to a Sixer fan, because nights like last night(not his FG%, but the points, assists, D) should be more common. But there have been nights where his D has been subpar too, and that goes to his inconsistency.

    2) About ET. Doug has some sort of issue with Evan. Don’t know what it is, but he essentially did the same thing to Rip about 12 years ago. In no league should a guy with the skill set of ET start of a one dimensional player like M33ks. That’s what frustrates us fans about Doug, why can’t he see what we see as fans in ET? Jrue doesn’t have to be a PG, he can be a combo, ET is a skilled enough passer. They can run together, let them go. To me, their development this season should have been the priorty, not the Sixers W-L record. Doug didn’t see it that way.

  • T-Money

    at this point, melo is seeing battier as fresh meat. battier likes to get physical with wings to offset his decrease in lateral quickness but that ish just don’t work with melo. dude is a goon. the problem is, i don’t think bron can defend melo for 40 minutes and still have enough energy to do what miami needs him to do at the offensive end. bron also plays a lot of 4 and a lot of 1.

  • http://www.yahoo.com The Fury

    Doug Collins is a younger version of Larry Brown..they have this insecurities of playing talented young guys.

  • http://www.soundcloud.com/tray-5 T-Ray

    T they really only need Bron to start off guarding him in the first and third quarter. He gets him out of rhythm for the first 5 minutes or so long enough for Miami to make a run and spread the lead.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    idk if he really does get Melo out of rhythm. As soon as Melo sees Battier matching up with him his eyes light up. His shot slows down. He just looks ultra comfortable against everyone not named LeBron.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Yeah I don’t think Melo scores as a “rhythm” guy the way Terry and Westbrook score. He just does better against certain players. Bron is one of the few players who can match both of Melo’s styles: body up or first step jumper.

  • http://www.soundcloud.com/tray-5 T-Ray

    Nbk I was meaning LeBron gets him out of rhythm. He pushes him away from his sweet spots and makes him start his point of attack much further.

  • 602Shorty

    Totally and completely unrelated to anything here, but did anyone else here that Junior Seau just killed himself? They’re saying he shot himself at home.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Yeah in the chest.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Slick Ric

    Wow, if he’s shot in the chest, I dont know if its a suicide. who the hell tries to kill themselves by shooting themselves in the chest?

  • 602Shorty

    He wouldn’t be the first NFL player to kill himself by shooting himself in the chest. I don’t know whats going on with these guys but major depression is becoming more common for retired NFL guys. Seau apparently drove his truck off a cliff recently too, though he denied it was a suicide attempt. Wild.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Ric: I know some other NFL player shot himself in the chest so his brain could be examined for disease brought on by the hard hits of playing football. Maybe dude had something up with his head and he wanted people to see it.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Nick Tha Quick

    I haven’t watched the Wizards play in so long besides game highlights or Shaq’s weekly McGee bashing. I thought Javale was average at best in the paint but he is atrocious. If he isn’t dunking the ball, chances of him scoring are about 2%. He seems to have big hands so the Kwame Brown effect is not the reason. He just cannot finish basic shots within 3 feet of the basket.
    Also, Sessions gets his shot blocked ALOT. And I’m glad Molasses Murphy isn’t playing much these days. When Ebanks developed his 3 point shot and figures out how to defend, he will be the full reincarnation of Trevor Ariza.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    He shot himself in the chest it is confirmed. And more than likely it was because he was lucid enough in his depression to know his brain would be beneficial for science considering the various concussions he experienced throughout his football career.

  • http://www.google.com/search?q=It%E2%80%99s+extremely+hard+when+a+6-8+guy+can+easily+defend+you&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a Allenp

    1. I told y’all about Jrue. Let me make sure I don’t hurt my shoulder patting myself on the bat.
    2. Fat Lever is exactly right and Jrue has been a little disappointing this year because I was expecting a much bigger leap.
    3. Doug Collins has always and will ALWAYS play favorites. That’s the sort of person he is regardless of all the glowing accolades.
    4. Miami vs Lakers would have mistmatches and great matchups everywhere. Speed versus size in general, poor bench versus poor bench, Bron vs Artest, Wade versus Kobe, Bosh versus Gasol, Bynum verus Turiaf and Anthony. Every player would have to be focused every game and a slippage would cause chaos. Plus, if Popovich gets to go against Spoelstra it just wouldn’t be fair. Brown versus Spoelstra is much more even.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Lol at the plus at the end of that.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Slick Ric

    Ok, well Charles said it last night, you have to have a different mind state to perform in certain sports such football and boxing professionally.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Slick Ric

    If Brown can beat Pops, I don’t think it should be too hard for him to out strategize spoelstra.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    That’s sad about Seau. Life seems tough sometimes, but killing your self just seems so ludicrous. It’s so strange that someone with fame, money, and an accomplished career would find so little meaning on finishing out the run. Sad stuff.
    Obviously I have been wanting a Bron’s team vs Kobe’s team in the Finals forever now. It wasn’t happened, but interestingly enough this year would maybe be the best. Bron at the top of his prime. Kobe still a top 3 NBA player. Artest guarding Bron for a series would be so insanely fun to watch. Bron would obviously get his, but he will probably nearly go mad from Artest bodying him up anytime he moves.
    Nick: while McGee is no Hakeem, he is just looking even worse because of the Lakers front line. He has a couple moves. But I need to stop defending him because he has so much improvement needed. I just think he needs to calm down then he’s good to start and play 30 mins for a team.
    Got that McGee? Calm the f*ck down dude.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    If the Lakers beat the Spurs you can bet all the money in your bank account that it has nothing do with Mike Brown out strategizing Gregg Popovich.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Slick Ric

    Why do you think so NBK? Its not like the lakers are the better team, All the lakers have over the spurs is size and kobe. Lets not get it misconstrued, it wont be the deciding factor but it will definitely play a part. The Spurs are the more talented, deeper and well balanced team.

  • http://stapledesign.com Spaceship Jay

    Word to nbk.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    LA’s frontline has nothing to do with McGee’s garbageness. All that otherworldy hops becomes useless when you lack touch around the basket.
    Lake, not trying to start sh*t (on second thought, I am) but you still think Kobe is a top-3 player?

  • http://www.google.com/search?q=It%E2%80%99s+extremely+hard+when+a+6-8+guy+can+easily+defend+you&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a Allenp

    I think that the size advantage is a big one. The Kobe advantage, the one where Pop will have to decide whether to let Manu or Stack Jack guard Kobe, is a big advantage either.
    The Lakers aren’t some dumb young team. They know how to win in the playoffs.
    But, Slick Ric you make a good point. If Brown can manage to outwit Pop, Spoelstra shouldn’t be that difficult. And to be clear, Spoelstra is not an idiot, he is just rigid.

  • http://wagesofwins.com/2012/04/20/nba-award-races/ nbk

    Slick, if LA beats San Antonio it will be because they out-rebound them and protect the rim better. Mike Brown is not going to implement any game changing strategy. And I think the difference between Pop and Brown was proven in 07 when Mike Brown looked completely clueless in the finals. Let’s also remember that Brown is one of Pop’s disciples, so he taught him just about everything he knows about being a head coach.

  • http://www.google.com/search?q=It%E2%80%99s+extremely+hard+when+a+6-8+guy+can+easily+defend+you&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a Allenp

    Random question, but how many people believe Brandon Jennings may have reached his level as a player. Just curious.

  • http://wagesofwins.com/2012/04/20/nba-award-races/ nbk

    I

  • http://stapledesign.com Spaceship Jay

    This may sound odd, but I feel like the only thing that can take Jennings game to another level is an injury. God-forbid, but there is a forced-upon wisdom when you lose athletic ability when it comes to basketball imo. He suffers from 1-speed-syndrome, which makes him unpredictable to his team and predictable to his opponents.

  • http://stapledesign.com Spaceship Jay

    Uhhh.. I’d let Kobe shoot in the first half, then re-assess at half-time. Kobe is past the point where he carries LA with guns blazing. If the Bynum and Gasol aren’t involved it’ll be a tough road… And I’m sure Pop is fully aware of this.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    JT, it’s arguable. I think that players that can make a claim at his spot are Dwight and CP3. Wade and Rose are below him for sure in my opinion. Wade is awesome, but I feel he is a player that can’t be counted on like Kobe can be. He is injured so often and I feel like every play he makes during a basketball game is a gamble. He definitely has the skills and body to be as good or better than Kobe (right now), but he just has not proved to me (lately) that he is “the guy” like Kobe is.
    Well said Spaceship.
    Personally, No. I don’t think he has. I don’t think he’ll ever be a Top 3 PG like many of us thought, but he will improve greatly. He is going to be a very desirable PG at some point in his career. I see him putting up 20,8+,4 on 45% easily in a couple more years in his career.

  • T-Money

    i am blown away by how bad mcgee is. i had never really watched him saved from a few highlights but his touch around the basket is on kwame-like. dude throws up wild flip shots, all glass no rim, from 2-3 ft out. and he has no clue how to defend, always picking up blocking fouls. i also hate how he almost crouches when he is off the ball, stand tall dude! i’d love to see what a real coach could do with him (and yes, i have zero respect for karl and flip saunders)

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    2

  • http://www.slamonline.com Slick Ric

    In 07′ when Mike had Lebron and arguably the worst finals team ever assembled? The fact that Mike is a disciple might work in his favor this time now that he has better talent, albeit not quite equivalent to the spurs this season.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    crouching tiger, hidden dummy.

  • http://wagesofwins.com/2012/04/20/nba-award-races/ nbk

    Slick, I wasn’t trying to say Brown should have had that Cleveland team competing at all, just that he looked completely clueless.
    .
    Him being Pop’s disciple implies (to me) that Pop knows what Mike Brown wants to do, and understands Brown’s strategy as well as or even better than Brown does himself. It’s not like Pop is playing the same offensive and defensive system he was with Brown as an assistant, so Brown won’t really be able to capitalize on his insider knowledge. While Pop seems to understand almost every team and coach completely.
    .
    Obviously I could be totally wrong, I just don’t personally see Brown doing any sort of outcoaching of Pop. If they win, it will be because of an inherent advantage in the matchup, imo. You could be completely right though.

  • http://www.google.com/search?q=It%E2%80%99s+extremely+hard+when+a+6-8+guy+can+easily+defend+you&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a Allenp

    Also, I’m not really sure how Wade is below Kobe for sure.
    Seeing how Wade has almost always been the more efficient scorer and better passer, yeah I don’t see it at all. AT ALL

  • http://www.google.com/search?q=It%E2%80%99s+extremely+hard+when+a+6-8+guy+can+easily+defend+you&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a Allenp

    I thought everyone understood that Wade and Kobe were on the same level in 2006, and Wade snatched the torch in 2008. I see that I was wrong. I suggest you people go to the tape and numbers and remove your nostalgia glasses.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Don’t forget, Brown STILL calls Pop for coaching advice. No way Brown does anything to outclass Gregg.

  • http://www.google.com/search?q=It%E2%80%99s+extremely+hard+when+a+6-8+guy+can+easily+defend+you&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a Allenp

    I believe McGee just needs coaching. The raw talent is there. He’s still young. He came out of school really early. He give effort, he wants to be better.
    He’s also missing a lot more shots now than he did in Washington from what I remember.
    I still have faith.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Am I missing something? Did someone other than Lakeshow make the claim that Kobe was clearly better than Wade? (I’m sorry I’m not just going back to find out what was said, I am lazy today).

  • http://www.google.com/search?q=It%E2%80%99s+extremely+hard+when+a+6-8+guy+can+easily+defend+you&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a Allenp

    Well since no one else corrected him, I assumed you all agreed. Silence gives consent.

  • Bola

    at nbk, you can’t compare Kobe to Wade. Wade is a beast but Kobe on a good day is way better than Wade. First of all who has range? all round game Kobe is a general on the floor. Kobe’s basketball IQ is of the chart. Wade style of play is different. but Kobe is the man who idolises Jordan and plays like him. Kobe anyday, allday. And i aint a Kobe fan.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Yeah, I think we all agree with that Allen. Kobe is a better scorer (come at me everybody) but Wade does everything else better. Hence, Wade better.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Oh my bad Allen, i saw that Lakeshow said that, i just didn’t even really understand what it meant, i didn’t assume he meant Kobe was better (even though I know he feels that way) i thought he was insinuating by “the guy” that he meant as a go-to player, which to me is irrelevant, because Wade isn’t the Heats go-to player anyway.

  • Bola

    Wade does what better? What can Wade do that Kobe can’t do? Where was Wade when the black mamba with his mask destroyed the heat.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Nope, just me. And I fully 100% stand by that. You could show me a stat that shows that Wade is better than MJ. Does not matter. I watched MJ play, I know who was better.
    Wade is not on Kobe’s level. Kobe can score so much better as ‘the guy’ than D-Wade, and has a wider arsenal which is saying something because Wade has quite the arsenal. He is just as good of a passer, he is just not asked to play PG like D-Wade has over his career. They are both comparable defenders. Kobe is better at 1 on 1 defense. Wade is better at the passing lanes and weak side help. Rebounding is a wash.
    .
    I mean it’s pretty simple. Put Kobe on the Heat last year… No way in hell they don’t win a chip. Like, Hell would freeze over, and Pigs would fly, and McGee would be Hakeem if they didn’t win a chip with Bron and Kobe on the same team. Somehow though ya’ll think D-Wade is better because he puts the ball into a the hoop at a higher percentage… Mmmh, No thanks.

  • http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=wadedw01&y1=2012&p2=bryanko01&y2=2012 nbk

    Click My Name, Bola.

  • http://bulls.com airs

    Word to fat lever. Good call yesterday bro.
    F*ckin boozer.

  • http://www.google.com/search?q=It%E2%80%99s+extremely+hard+when+a+6-8+guy+can+easily+defend+you&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a Allenp

    Again, it seems that many of you have never taken a gander at Wade’s career numbers.
    I would suggest you do this, then return and we’ll have this conversation.
    Toodles.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Nah nah guys, this isn’t a solvable argument. Too much depends on intangibles, subjective observation, and semantics.

  • http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=wadedw01&y1=2012&p2=bryanko01&y2=2012 nbk

    If you want to just look at this season, click my name on this post.

  • http://www.google.com/search?q=It%E2%80%99s+extremely+hard+when+a+6-8+guy+can+easily+defend+you&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a Allenp

    Again
    There is no way you can say Kobe can score better. Nothing back this up. Kobe has scored MORE but he’s never cracked 47 percent from the field in his entire career. NEVER
    That’s amazing when you consider the collection of talent he’s played with. It’s even more amazing when you consider that Wade has only had one season BELOW 47 percent and that was his rookie year. Where he took the same team that Kobe slummed with to the second round of the playoffs. Yes, the same team. (I know Kobe as injured that year.)
    Wade, but the numbers, has been a better passer throughout his career. Amazingly better in fact.
    And you Laker fans can’t pull the “Kobe was a facilliator” card on one hand and then say “Well his assist numbers were down because he wasn’t playing point guard.”
    Yeah, because Derek Fisher was robbing Kobe of SO MANY assist.
    The only reason I don’t have Wade as having a better career is because of Kobe longevity. That’s it.

  • http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=wadedw01&y1=2012&p2=bryanko01&y2=2012 nbk

    there is literally not one single advanced stat in existence that says Bryant was better than Wade at anything this season. lol – (not saying that “proves” anything, that’s just funny too me.)

  • http://www.google.com/search?q=It%E2%80%99s+extremely+hard+when+a+6-8+guy+can+easily+defend+you&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a Allenp

    Kobe lost a championship playing with SHAQ, Karl Malone and Gary Payton.
    He lost two playing with Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum.
    In fact, HE GOT SWEPT BY THE EXACT SAME TEAM THAT BEAT THE FREAKING HEAT!.
    I swear, it’s like y’all don’t even think about reality when coming up with these shoddy arguments. It’s almost too easy.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    There was no correction on my end becuase we have already argued this ad nauseum before. I was the first one to say that Wade has been better than Kobe since the 08-09 season.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Allen, don’t make it personal. You’ve already convinced all of us, except LakeShow. You ever see Thank You For Smoking? There’s one scene where Aaron Eckhart is teaching his son about argument and rhetoric. They argue (as an example) about whether chocolate is better than vanilla. Eckhart makes a very clever statement that seems to prove his point. His son then says, “but you haven’t convinced me.” His dad smiles and says, “I’m not trying to convince you. I’m trying to convince all of them,” as he gestures to an invisible audience.

  • http://www.google.com/search?q=It%E2%80%99s+extremely+hard+when+a+6-8+guy+can+easily+defend+you&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a Allenp

    My motto when I decide to debate:

    “Leave no doubt…”

    Remember the Titans suckers.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    lol

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    AP, like I said… You can show me a stat that show’s Wade is better than Jordan. I don’t care. Stats and numbers are subjective. Kobe is easily the better player IMO. He is the more prolific scorer and holds his own just as well on the defensive end.
    Does health not play into a player being better than another player what-so-ever? If it does, holy sh*t, Kobe by a landslide.
    Dwyane Wade has the ability/skill to be better than Kobe, but as far as who is actually better, and who I want on my team for a season including playoffs. KB every damn time. They only thing Wade does “better” than Kobe is put the ball in the hoop more per his attempts. The only thing.
    Allen do you have any clue what your talking about? Kobe couldn’t win with Karl Malone and Gary Payton and Shaq. What a stupid statement to make and act like that it is a fact that should be shown without any context what-so-ever. Hmm, ohh, I don’t know, maybe the fact that Malone was 40 and playing his final games of his career on an injured leg that didn’t let him play the last two games of the series. Gary Payton was essentially what Ramon Sessions is today at that point in his career. Payton averaged 4,4 in the finals on like 30% shooting. That’s KB’s fault though.
    Wade lost last year with the best LeBron (isn’t LeBron an all time top 10 legend when it’s all said and done? Like, Shaq…) we had ever seen, till this year. Should that be a knock on him? No, no… let’s not do that.
    Shaq lost on a team with Kobe, Malone, and Payton. Can you guys possibly believe that the most dominant player ever lost with all those Hall of Famers??
    Kobe is not a facilitator. Rarely has he ever been. You don’t ask one of the greatest scorers ever to be a facilitator. He absolutely has the ability, but it is just an abuse of his natural ability.
    “The only reason I don’t have Wade as having a better career is because of Kobe longevity. That’s it.”
    What an embarrassing statement… Why don’t just ignore all the 100′s of records and accomplishments that Kobe has over Wade on your way to crowning Wade the 2nd best SG ever. Oh you already did. Perfect. LMMFAO.
    Don’t worry about the 81(no not points in a game) 30+ point games he has had in the playoffs alone. Also don’t worry about the 9 times Kobe has scored more than D-Wades highest total in a game. Nor about scoring streaks that Bryant has that Wade cannot even come close to touching. Lets forget about an MVP trophy and Back to back Finals MVP’s. Lets just forget all that. Sound good?
    I’ll take Kobe.
    Off to my typical 3 O’Clock lunch.
    Be back gents :)

  • eyal

    I have respect for kobe’s game the more i see him play. I sort of understand that the weaknesses (jacker, hog, hero baller) are necessary for him personally to succeed and be the player he wants to be and have the legacy he must dream about in his MJ bedsheets every night. BUT, kobe has 9 first team defense nods and RECENT all nba first team selections over wade. how that doesn’t make people froth at the mouth in rage is beyond me.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Lake, I think the issue is whether Kobe is better RIGHT NOW. Kobe has obviously had a better career and in 20 years will more than likely be viewed as the greater player. But at this very moment, achievements from the past mean nothing. It’s just who is the better player stepping onto the court RIGHT NOW?

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    MJ’s one of the 3 greatest scores of all-time yet he still found a way to avg. 8apg one season while still scoring at a high rate. So kobe fans need to stop with all the “he’s a scorer” excuse for why he refuses to get his teammates involved.
    Also, no one is arguing that Wade is better career-wise than Kobe. You reach, I teach.

  • http://www.alllooksame.com Tarzan Cooper

    Jarrett jack is better than kobe

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Taylor, Jordan did play PG for the whole second half of that season. lol

  • http://www.slamonline.com Nick Tha Quick

    @ T-Money The very same thing I said at 3.57pm. Even Stone Hands Kwame, scored ocassionally around the basket and had some semblance of a hook shot. Javale just throws the ball at the backboard hoping it goes in. It reminds me of young girls just learning to hoop and missing everything but the backboard .OR Iamorange’s “game”.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    nbk, I know. He also avg. around 6apg 3 other times in his career. I’m just point that out because Kobe fans like to use the “he’s a SG, so he’s supposed to shoot” excuse for why Kobe refuses to trust his teammates.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Uhh, Taylor, Caboose, AllenP said, the only thing that makes Kobe better is longevity… Meaning, that once Wade plays as many seasons as Kobe has he will be just as accomplished, and be considered to be just as good as Kobe. That is speaking on career, not right now. Right now I still would take Kobe over Wade, but I understand an argument for Wade being better today. (kind of, Injuries must be taken into consideration!!!) This is so far from the truth and so absurd I had to respond mainly to that one thing AP said.
    JTaylor, Kobe averaged over 5 assists per game(two making it to the 6 AST marks) 9 times in his career. Dead the Kobe doesn’t pass BS. He has had selfish moments in the regular season,(more than most) who cares. Jordan had selfish moments. Bron needs more selfish moments. He is one of the greatest players EVER. Selfish isn’t always a bad thing. I love it when he is selfish and wins games. I can’t complain every time he is selfish and they lose. Personally that’s how I see it.
    Question: Was Wilt’s lust for leading the L in assists selfish?

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Just giving you sh*t Taylor.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Lake, if that’s what you interpret that to mean, then I think we’d all disagree with Allen on that one. As long as Bron takes all the accolades in Miami, Wade isn’t going to be surpassing Kobe any time soon. An interesting debate 10 years from now will be Pippen vs Wade.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    I never said “Kobe doesn’t pass”, I said he has problems trusting his teammates. He fought with Shaq over touches and he’s now doing the same with Gasol/Bynum. You watch Kobe as much as anyone on here and even you can’t deny that’s true. It’s not necessarily a bad thing but to say that he’s just as good a passer as Wade is false. Before the arrival of Bron/Bosh, Wade consistenly put up 7+apg seasons.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Gasol and Bynum have never once said anything to that nature. Maybe a hint that he should have trusted them more, but you act like they are talking to the media daily about how selfish Kobe is and blah blah blah. Nope. That doesn’t happen. Do you know why? Because they trust Kobe. That’s what is important here. I’m not saying we should ignore that Kobe has had selfish moments and that he was as good a team mate as anyone. No, he wasn’t/isn’t. But if his style of play was so awful he would not have 5 chips looking for 6. He would not have great players wanting to play by his side. Has he been selfish in the first two games of the playoffs? He took over 24 shots both times. That’s above hhis season average which you all thought was staggering. Was he selfish in those two easy wins? Was it because Gasol and Bynum dominated so it over shadowed his selfish, terrible play? No, it wasn’t Kobe plays how Kobe plays. Often times it results in a win or a playoff birth. Sometimes it results in a big fat nasty 3-25 shooting L.
    Wade played PG or a play making shooting guard. He is also a slasher first, not an iso scorer. Slashers have a much easier time racking up assists. We act like if someone passes the ball once more a game and the person scores that all the sudden this person is a phenomenal passer. Kobe has out assisted Wade the last two seasons. It’s not a substantial fact that if you average more assists you are a better passer.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    I think Kobe has the passing ability of Wade, easily, just nothing close to the mentality. If MJ came to Kobe and DEMANDED he pass next season, Kobe could get 7+ assists a game, no problem. It would require a lot of mental work on Kobe’s part, but the physical tools are there.

  • http://slamonline.com datkid

    I’m bout to do a caboose like post. 1. Kobe is not better than wade. and hasn’t been since about 06-07. I give him 07 bc he had those 50+ games and the 81. and even then he was only arguably better offensively. I wouldn’t give him the nod in any other area. But I will say that I feel like Kobe’s peak > Wade’s peak. 2. Kobe probably has a better offensive arsenal than wade, and that hasn’t changed but wade is still WAY more effective right now/for a while. 3. Kobe is lucky wade get’s injured so much.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    How wade goes about getting his assists doesn’t change the fact that he’s still a better passer than Kobe.

  • http://slamonline.com datkid

    I will say though that I’m not sure Wade will be as effective as Kobe is when he’s Kobe’s age. Wade has an Ok post-game right now, but it’s nothing compared to Kobe’s. plus kobe’s is more effective bc he’s taller.

    I like Jrue holiday… but Jru> Ty lawson??? I don’t know. ya’ll know I love Ty tho so somebody explain that to me.

    Brandon Jennings has not reached his ceiling yet IMO. I think he’ll get a lot better soon.

    and lakeshow we don’t know exactly what would happen in the playoffs, but we have watched them play before yes? I think in general I’m right here.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Define “better passer.” Do you mean more willing passer? Or do you mean he was able to pass the ball better? Kobe is one of the best passers I have seen from the SG position. He finds guys when I don’t see them, he squeezes passes into places I can’t imagine. He can toss perfectly executed behind the back passes. He is has great ability to pass the ball. The question for me was always is he going to. Not is he able to.
    IYO nbk: Was Jason Williams a better passer than Wade? I’m just trying to get a feel what you think a “good” passer is.
    Kid, IMO, 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt Kobe will have the better career. It’s absolutely no question in my mind. I can’t think of a possible scenario where that would change.
    I don’t understand how Wade has been better than Kobe for years. Like it makes no sense to me. He has been as good at moments, but not obviously better at any point(except last year, maybe). Last year Kobe lost a step, but he is better this year than last year. I can only logically take last year for Wade being better than KB. This year it has very obviously been Kobe to me. Mostly because he has been there. I can’t stand how fragile Wade is in conjunction with his relentless style of play. It seems so stupid to me. He needs to be smart with his career and start copying Kobe with his style of play(yes his FG% will lower. That’s not the worse thing in the world) because his body WILL NOT take the abuse he gives it for much longer.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Uhm yes Jason Williams was a better passer than Wade. I also don’t understand how that gives you a better feel? When he was at his best he averaged over 8 a game. The turnovers weren’t over a lack of passing ability as much as a lack of discipline. So what does that prove, is Williams Wade or Kobe in this comparison?

  • http://slamonline.com datkid

    Kobe probably understands the game as well as wade but wade is a better passer. not even just a more willing passer but overall a better one.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    co-sign Tarzan Cooper 6:31 pm.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Umm…Wade’s post game is one of the best if not the best at the 2 spot. It may not be as flashy as Kobe’s but he’s more efficent on the low bock.
    Lake, just curious. Who are those great players that clamored to play alongside Kobe in his career?

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Lake, how do you figure that Kobe had a better season this year than last when he shot better from the field, from 3, less TOs, and a higher PER? The only thing he did significantly better this season was score (direct result of taking 3 more shots).

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    What dumb comment section. To insist that Wade is better than Kobe ever is fundamentally dumb. Wade is acting like, Bron is his master and lost all of his killer mentality. I take Kobe all day. Wade skill is not even close to Kobe. Wade is an one dimensional player. Watch him play, Player play Wade straight up now. Wade is not known for his defense or his passing. Wade has no post players on his team, thats why he has a higher fg%. Kobe with Gasol last year had over 50%. Kobe is killing at 33 and is still consider top 5 player, some SPORTS writers have him as the MVP. If you based it off his bench, new coach, being only All Star on his team and his injuries. Can’t believe people have faith in Wade when he doesn’t feel he is the best player on his own team anymore. BOOK IT!!

  • Bola

    @ datkid, so what of Kobe and his injuries? Kobe is a better player. You can’t argue about that. This same cat(wade) got lock-down by Kobe. IF you forgotten check on YouTube. Dude doesn’t play defence but when he does you aint going nowhere. Plus the post move kobe does, i bet you wade will probably kill to have that type of arsenal at his fingertip. And passing? wade might have more assist, but Kobe can also pass as well.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    ASSSSSKKKK MJ about KOBE. THIS SHOULD STOP THIS CRAP ABOUT WADE, IF LEBRON WAS HONEST, HE WOULD PLAY WITH KOBE OVER WADE. WATCH THE INTERVIEW ABOUT PLAYING WITH KOBE. BIRD EVEN SAID THIS AND OTHERS. LEGENDS HAVE KOBE TOP 7 EVER AND SOME DUMB WANNABE BALL PLAYERS STATING WADE HAS BETTER SKILL IS LIKE SAYING SHAQ HAS BASKETBALL INSIGHT!!

  • blakos

    Kobe is not on par with Wade passing wise. Lakeshow you make some valid points especially about playoff consistency.

    1. Wade has greater passing skill. Meaning he can pass the ball to the correct location more often.

    2. He has greater court vision. Meaning he has greater spatial awareness and can throw better lead passes etc.

    3. He is a more willing passer. To quote, “Kobe is not a facilitator. Rarely has he ever been. You don’t ask one of the greatest scorers ever to be a facilitator. He absolutely has the ability, but it is just an abuse of his natural ability”.

    Great players adapt. If you have shaq/bynum/Gasol in the middle you should be facilitating to compliment your amazing scoring ability. There have been countless times in his career when he won games with scoring. But lets not kid ourselves it is clear to see many a time that bigs on his teams get frustrated with his shot jacking. His stubborness often means that his passing game is not where it should be.

    Regarding passing its a no brainer. Sorry.

  • http://slamonline.com datkid

    I already said that kobe’s post game >> wade’s bola. Taylor probably has some sort of stat to back his statement up. but I’d be surprised if that were true. and wade has also locked kobe down. wade right now is better at basically all areas of the game, even offensively. and we’ve already talked about the passing thing a million times. cosign blakos..

  • Niyasofresh

    When Kobe is playing well and is still a threat it always brings out the most hateful individuals, rehashing the same tired arguments. If Kobe were any player not named Kobe they’d already be talking Hall of Fame with him before he turned 25. When he’s playing like crap and isn’t a factor the same hateful people are nowhere insight because they’re satisfied. People love to see him fail and hate to see him succeed, I can’t lie I enjoy seeing people like this cringe I’m sure Kobe does too. 16 seasons and the man still can’t get respect as a player.

  • Justin G.

    Before I get into it, let me just say I’m a huge fan of both Kobe and Wade. I love both of their games. Now, for those that are saying Wade was better this year are you really saying that, if given the choice, you would take Wade on the Heat over Kobe? Really? I think LakeShow maks some good points, especially about asking would the Heat have lost last year with Kobe on the team instead of Wade. I’ll say no chance as well. Also Lake, thank you for abusing that ridiculous comment from AllenP about losing with 40 year old Malone and 35 year old Payton. I guess only Kobe takes the heat for that one and not Shaq. lol Hilarious! Why wouldn’t Wade get the same kind of flack for losing with Lebron and a top 5 PF in Bosh? People, you can’t have it both ways.

  • everything

    Kobe is a better free throw shooter. you gotta give him that.

  • everything

    Justin, would the lakers get swept by the mavs if they had wade instead of Kobe? i say no. but no point in arguing about hypotheticals

  • eyal

    just FYI, wade and kobe have shared a lot of teammates. wade won with an even older payton and just out of his prime Shaq.

  • Chris S.

    I can’t believe some of the stuff I’m reading. Wade has never been on the same level as Kobe, and even if it might be debatable these days, it is only because Kobe is on the decline and is in his 16th year. Don’t even start with comparing their prime, it’s laughable.

    It’s incredible how some people will forever hold up Jordan as the golden standard, yet totally goes into denial when it comes to the fact that Jordan considers Kobe the only wing player to ever come close to his level. Go figure.

  • http://www.google.com/search?q=It%E2%80%99s+extremely+hard+when+a+6-8+guy+can+easily+defend+you&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a Allenp

    I don’t care how injured Gary Payton and Karl Malone were. They were still better than Antoine Walker and the Gary Payton that played for Miami.
    And let’s not even compare the two versions of Shaq, ok?
    I’m not writing a lengthy response. Kobe fans make lots of excuses for why he doesn’t do things he should be doing.
    Oh well.

  • http://www.google.com/search?q=It%E2%80%99s+extremely+hard+when+a+6-8+guy+can+easily+defend+you&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a Allenp

    And didn’t I say Kobe had the better career? I have argued against a cat who has Wade OVER KOBE for his career because I believe that Kobe doing what Kobe has done for so long is more impressive than Wade’s career.
    But Wade is the better player now and has been since 2008.
    Again, what has Kobe done so different from Wade?
    Without talent, he loses games and puts up less efficient numbers.
    With talent he wins.
    That’s exactly what Wade has done his entire career.
    Not sure if you all have been paying attention.

  • http://www.google.com/search?q=It%E2%80%99s+extremely+hard+when+a+6-8+guy+can+easily+defend+you&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a Allenp

    If the argument was “Kobe would have won with Lebron.”
    How can you make that argument when
    1. Kobe has already lost with Shaq multiple times.
    2. Kobe lost to the same Dallas team and got swept.
    3. Kobe has lost with great talent on other occasions.
    If you can’t follow this logic, you suck at thinking. I am completely serious. You’re saying that LeBron right now is better than a prime Shaq.
    THAT IS EFFING RIDICULOUS. EFFING RIDICULOUS. YOU SHOULD SHUT THE EFF UP FOREVER IF YOU BELIEVE THAT.

  • everynowhere

    kobe would have lost with lebron as well. kobe was playing sub-par last year from the bad knee and i don’t see how switching wade out for him would help. Plus lebron was playing like a little b**ch. Too tall a task for either kobe or wade

  • Justin G.

    Allen, that is YOUR OPINION! Your opinion is not the be all end all of this damn forum. You’re so quick to say “Kobe got swept by the same team that Miami won two games against”. It’s a TEAM GAME! Kobe was not the main reason the Lakers lost that series. Pau didn’t show up either and Bynum was not the same player he is this year. Let’s not pretend this was a 100% healthy Kobe either. Kobe, as we have found out over the past year, was in great amounts of pain with his knee being the way it was (everynowhere, I meant a healthy Kobe on the Heat vs. Wade). Can’t you make the same argument that Shaq lost with Kobe as well? Shaq is supposed to be the most dominant player ever but he supposedly couldn’t get it done with Kobe on his team? If you can’t follow this logic, you suck at thinking. I am completely serious

  • Justin G.

    Also, you can’t say you don’t care about how injured Malone was since I don’t think he even played the last two games. Antoine Walker>Karl Malone in a suit.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Nah, you’re a joke.
    It’s not my opinion.
    I’ve made the same argument that Shaq lost with Kobe and other top tier shooting guards so that impacts his position in all time rankings. In fact, I made that argument about Slam’s listing of the greatest players of all time when they had Shaq at number 4.
    If you make the purely speculative argument that Kobe is better than Wade because if you put him on Miami’s team last year they win the championship, there are several logical problems.
    First, it’s pure speculation. No one can prove or disprove it because it is an argument that is not based on facts.
    Second, even as a speculative argument it ignores certain salient facts like the fact that Kobe lost to the exact same team as Miami, only his team got swept. And, that he lost in the Finals with an even more dominant player than LeBron, so why would having LeBron and Kobe together be an unstoppable duo.
    That’s the logic people can’t seem to follow.

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