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Wednesday, May 16th, 2012 at 9:32 am  |  135 responses

Post Up: Pacer Power

Indiana steals Game 2 in Miami, while the Spurs coast to a Game 1 win over Lob City.

Pacers 78, Heat 75 (Series tied 1-1)

An exciting playoff game going down to the final buzzer will be overshadowed on this Wednesday morning. A phenomenal performance by Pacer big man David West, who outmuscled the Heat bigs all night long and hit clutch baskets down the stretch, will be elapsed. West has legitimately become the Pacer’s go-to player they have been looking for, but his presence will not be the spotlight of the game. The fact that Mario Chalmers, not the current MVP LeBron James or Dwayne Wade, took the final shot of the game with four seconds left to tie will not be remembered. Indiana’s tremendous defense, limiting a team averaging 98.5 ppg to 75 points, will get outshined. It’s a shame, really. The two teams went a combined 2-8 on free throws in the final minute will also be forgotten. Dwayne Wade’s post-game comments will overshadow the whole game.

Everyone, please watch this video a time or two. Give it a quick glance. Let it soak in for a minute, and explain how Dwayne Wade can criticize someone for “celebrating” a playoff win.

The Heat threw a party for the arrival of LeBron James and Chris Bosh. The Pacers showed a few visible signs of emotion from a win after an extremely chippy game. Both teams played full speed all game, and tempers flared multiple times. The Pacers did no major celebration dances, no posing for the cameras, no victory laps or anything of the sort. Instead of focusing on the reasons why the Heat dropped a winnable game at home, Wade made these remarks about what happened after the final buzzer sounded:

“I don’t know if they didn’t expect to win. Every night we go out on the court, we expect to win.”

“I heard they wanted to be like the Dallas Mavericks. I saw their little celebration at the end of the game.”

If Wade wants to play the villain, so be it. Every League needs a bad guy. But comments like the ones he made take away from a fantastic game and shine the spotlight on a negative side of sports: bad player quotes.

The fact of the matter is the Pacers head home 1-1 with full momentum and two home games in a row. David West proved he could be the “go-to guy” the media claims is necessary for a Pacers title run. Paul George and Danny Granger came up big at different moments. The defense played its best game of the year and the Pacers proved they can hang with the top dogs in the East. Game 2 was not a game in which the Heat blatantly beat themselves—the Pacers deserved the victory and outplayed the Heat. If the Heat don’t get their act together quickly, they could be staring a series deficit straight in the eye after Thursday night in Indianapolis. —Dave Spahn (@DaveSpahn)

Spurs 108, Clippers 92 (SAS leads 1-0)

Signs pointed to the younger Los Angeles Clippers being able to play with the older San Antonio Spurs on Tuesday. For about a quarter, that is. Tied up at 29-29 to start the second quarter, Tim Duncan & Co. imposed their will the rest of the way en route to a rather impressive 108-92 victory in Game 1 of the Western Conference semifinals. Furthermore, the Spurs silenced some of their critics who thought they were on the downside of their careers and the shortened season might catch up with them at some point.

And with the particularly lopsided result, perhaps they sent a message to the rest of the League that they still have something left in the tank and are on the verge of big things. This much is clear: The Clippers do not appear to be up to the task of making things interesting.

For all the talk about Blake Griffin being the future, Duncan upstaged him to prove that he’s still one of the premiere players at his position and the face of Lob City has a long way to go. There’s no substitute for experience, I suppose.

Duncan scored 26 points on 12-of-20 shooting from the field. Can’t forget to mention his 10 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 blocks and 2 steals. In comparison, Griffin finished with 15 points on 7-17 shooting. He added 9 rebounds too. Anyone who watched the game somewhat close could clearly see how over-matched Griffin was.

Duncan might have lost a step. Collectively, the Spurs might have lost step. Nevertheless, the Clippers are in trouble, based on the what we witnessed Tuesday. Granted, this series is not only about Duncan vs. Griffin. There are interesting match-ups all over the court. That said, can’t imagine things being much different in Game 2. —Sean Ceglinsky (@seanceglinsky)

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  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    Tim Duncan is incredible…that dude never ceases to impress me.

  • Scott

    Lebron missing those free-throws cost them the game in the end. Wade’s atrocious shooting got them to the point of almost losing, but Bron sealed it. I see the Pacers stealing one more game before heading back to Nowhereville, USA for the summer.

  • Heals

    Indy v Philly ECF just like everybody predicted…

  • Heals

    Play of the Night: TD’s soccer style two-handed, outlet lead-pass to Leonard…

  • whooo!

    Let’s be real, it’s not that Duncan didn’t outplay Griffin because of “experience” — he’s had a dominant and complete game since his rookie year, and his offensive game is just better. hell, for the most part it was just the basic act of nailing down a mid-range jumper (and playing tremendous help defense). Griffin is still very raw, and he could learn a lot by seeing how a guy like Duncan succeeds without athleticism, and consider what he could do if he could combine that type of skillset with his freakish physical gifts.

  • whooo!

    And I still think it’s mildly embarassing that Tim Duncan and KG as old as they are can outplay all these young kids. It’s like Shaq — dude was on his LAST legs and he could still play Dwight Howard and Bynum to an even outcome. And then you think how they would have absolutely murdered these cats if their primes had been better aligned and they weren’t beating each other up. The early 2000′s was insane for the PF position with TD/KG/Sheed/Webber/Gasol/Dirk/Jermaine/Brand.

  • Mike Mihalow

    Floppers are gonna get swept.

  • Mike From Spain

    WCF Spurs-OKC. ECF Pacers – 76ers? Finals Spurs – Pacers? :)

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Come on man. Who really believes the Clippers can compete with the Spurs? The Spurs are the most disciplined team in the League. The Clippers are the opposite. The Spurs are one of the best coached teams in the League, the Clippers are the opposite. The only advantage the Clipppers have is raw athletic talent, but the skill advantage is clearly in San Antonio. I’m not interested in that series at all. I wanted to see a Memphis San Antonio rematch, but unfortunately the Grizzlies shat the bed. Spurs versus Grizzlies would have been fun. This is just going to be ugly.
    And LeBron was playing hot potato with the ball down the stretch. He didn’t choke, but he should have tried to force the action since they were in the bonus. And those missed free throws were horrible. Then again, Wade wasn’t too hot either. Lots of long jumpers and missed shots. The Heat are in trouble without Bosh. His absence changes all of the spacing on the floor, and unless LeBron goes back to getting deep post position, it’s going to be an issue.

  • LA Huey

    Actually, LBJ’s missed FTs were pretty big but Wade missed a very makeable (for him) layup at the end that sealed their fate.

  • http://redoftoothandclaw.ca/ niQ

    I still can’t believe everyone slept on Kawhi Leonard during last year’s draft…

  • Sparker

    didn’t see the 2nd half, but miami’s offence was sleepy dull even when they were up and the pacers were sucking. just too many isos and lazy, off-balance jumpers. they looked like the damn hawks. and turiaf can’t even hit a layup. i was thinking it might not matter because the pacers just could not get their act together. but it seems they did in the end. even so, all i could think was: boy do these teams look crappy compared to what we saw from okc against the lakers.

  • Agent 87

    everyone but the spurs, as usual …

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Sparker
    Well, Indy and Miami both play exceptionally better defense than the Lakers, so that’s part of it. You’re not getting wide open jumpers all game against either of those teams.

  • LA Huey

    Oh, and Popovich is the master. I thought with Chris Paul and the athletes they have in their lineup, the Spurs would make this game a grind. Instead, played a high pace game. I love watching Spurs games.

  • http://slamonline Brion

    My friend who is a Lebron “hater” always says that Lebron doesnt want to take it to the rim in late game situations because hes afraid to miss freethrows. Im starting to buy that theory. How can any league MVP be so quiet in the fourth quarter?

  • http://www.yahoo.com The Fury

    @Brion…he’s not really that quiet during the fourth, it’s just he doesn’t deliver when given the oppurtunity to win the game.

  • Fat Lever

    Hahahaha, Heals that gave me a good chuckle(even as a die hard Sixer fan). With Bosh out, I think it’s more likely Indiana can knock off Miami than Philly ending the Big 3 in Boston. D-West should get the rock in the post 3 out of every 4 trips in the halfcourt set with Bosh out. And let the offense flow through him. Eastern Conference semi’s both have tons of emotion. I’m digging it.

  • T-Money

    only 2 heat players scored more than 5 points last night and miami is 1 for 21 on 3s so far, that’s much more important than being clutch. the first 46 minutes are as important as the last two. miami, like most good nba teams, win and lose close games. in fact, there’s not much difference in the ability to win close games between good nba teams (yes, the lakers are just average in that department despite having the ultimate “closer”). the great teams avoid games that are still up in the air with a minute to go.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Y’all see why I had Spurs in 4?

  • http://www.yahoo.com The Fury

    ..and why is it Timmy was the only guy on the Spurs team that got mentioned in TPU?? Most of the guys played great as expected (Ginobili, Leonard, Green). Pretty impressive even their MVP (TP) was having a bad shooting night.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    LeBron is fine in the fourth quarter until about two minutes left in he game. Then he starts thinking. He overthinks things that he’s been doing all game.
    And I’m tired of his work in the mid-post. Get lower on the block.

  • http://www.yahoo.com The Fury

    @Nbk…do you think they (spurs) can win the West?

  • http://slamonline Brion

    Fury..i dont disagree with you, but when was the last time they drew up a play for him to “deliver when given the opportunity”?

  • shutup

    Can we get a recount on who the best pf in the game is right now?

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    T-Money, I hear you but LeBron can not miss 4 FTs in the 4th qtr of a game where points were at a premium then proceed to give up the ball twice in the waining second because according to him; there wasn’t an angle to attack (total BS). The man froze up again because he was afraid of getting fouled and having to go to the FT line. You can not be walking around here being compared to Moses Malone, Bird, Magic and MJ if you are afraid of going to the FT-line down the stretch of a big game.

  • T-Money

    i’d also like spo to give more minutes to cole, harris, anthony and turiaf and less to miller, battier and haslem. i don’t care if they’re young and inexperienced, wade and lebron need people to run with them. especially battier, i don’t know what happened but he’s getting beat by david west on dribble drives!

  • shutup

    @NBK i said 5 just because I thought Chris Paul being Chris Paul could squeeze a win for LA. The Spurs bench are so deep. If people don’t know why the Spurs are so great all they need to do is watch the high pick and roll between Parker and Diaw, Parkers lead pass should be used to teach young pg’s across the world. This team is so well coached but having players that buy into and can execute a coach’s plan is so special. On another note that Heat game was an ugly affair start to finish, I don’t think the Heat are built for the contact. @Allen can we add Joel Anthony to the moving screener list ASAP

  • goattree

    He might be getting old, but how can we count (arguably) the best Power Forward EVER out of the conversation of the best power forward in the game right now? Mid-season all we heard was K LOve, Blake and Aldridge…but it looks like it’ll be Timmy D getting the last laugh.

  • http://slamonline Brion

    Allen, totally agree, when he gets deep in the block he scores, that possesion he had after getting blocked was a perfect example, he muscled for posistion and scored easily.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Nick Tha Quick

    Who wins a Shirt Off between Kevin Durant and Corey Brewer?

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Fury, definitely

  • Fat Lever

    Timmy was just pacing himself, like all wily, “old” vets do. He let those guys goattree mentioned have the regular season crown.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    How there ever been this many bad coaches this deep in the playoffs before? I mean..we have Vinny in LA, MBrown in LA, Spo in MIA and SBrooks in OCK, that’s 4 terrible coaches that will at some point cost their team a chance at winning the chip. It’s isn’t a coincidence that those 4 teams run probably the worst half-court set in the L.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Jahmai

    I’m not usually in the business of hating on LeBron but I saw this on ESPN: ‘Guys it’s LeBron James Day, everybody gets to leave work 12 minutes early!’ It made me laugh.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Shutup, CP’s groin injury is why I didn’t give them the Chris Paul 1 game benefit lol

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Random question.
    If the NBA was “call your own fouls” which players do you think would call the most fouls? Remember this is not who whines to the refs to the most, but who would call their own fouls the most. Who is THAT guy?

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Tim Duncan = the best player of his generation. No argument.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    @ Allen: you mean as a defender, calling it when you foul someone?

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Duncan is the best of all time. But, who else rounds out the top five. When I sat down and really thought about it, I was hardpressed to find players I thought were definitely better than KG.

  • http://www.soundcloud.com/tray-5 T-Ray

    Allen I’m thinking it’s a 3 way tie between Kobe, Wade, and Dwight.
    As far as last night did anyone see TD accidentally bump into Blake while running back on defense? Blake was acting like he hit him in the face but only chest checked him smh to be so damn big but so soft.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    KG, Malone, Barkley, Pettit, McHale

  • logues

    kobe

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Kobe or Wade. Those cats look to the officials for fouls on every play.
    Top 5 PFs- 1. TD 2. Malone 3. Barkley 4. Pettit 5. KG

  • LA Huey

    Allenp. Kevin Martin. Mbah Moute mentioned he’s the biggest flopper in the league. I think Wade and Kobe wouldn’t call as many fouls becaus they’d come right back at you. Kevin Martin doesn’t have that kind of mentality in him.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    HOnestly, I think I’d take KG over Barkley for sure and possibly Malone…he’s that good. He just had the bad luck of wasting the majority of his prime on the T Wolves. Other than Rings the championships, how much better is TD than KG anyways? I’d say it’s a pretty slim margin.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    other than the championships*

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Those were my All-Time PF’s in order. Dirk would come in after McHale. Which I am not too confident about as wrong as that sounds.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Obviously assuming Duncan is #1

  • russian guy

    Malone is vastly overrated.It’s in my opinion Tim Duncan,KG,Dirk,Barkley,Pettit/Malone,McHale. Dirk gets the nod over Barkley because of his outstanding 2011 playoffs and the ring,although I still think Barkley is the better Power Forward and should be ranked above him.

  • http://www.google.be/imgres?q=NO!+meme&um=1&hl=nl&sa=N&rlz=1C1AFAB_enBE454BE454&biw=1600&bih=763&tbm=isch&tbnid=L3l0ZW3D5dDSDM:&imgrefurl=http://forthesakeofscience Max

    And your ECF:
    Pacers – Sixers
    WHOOHOOOO!!

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    After Duncan and KG I don’t there is another power forward better than Malone.
    He scored better than everybody. Defended as well as everybody not named Duncan or Garnett. Same with rebounding. And he was consistent.
    Do y’all realize that McHale never averaged 10 rebounds in a season? Unacceptable.
    Why do so many people think Barkley is better than Malone? Based on what exactly?

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    There is nothing overrated about Malone, absoultely nothing. The man is probably the most consistent superstar (outside of KAJ) to play in the NBA. He is the only cat in League history to avg. 25+ppg/10+rpg for 10 straight seasons, if that isn’t being consistently dominant I don’t know what is.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Allen, McHale did average 9.9 one season. And he was consistently above 8, on a team with 2 other guys 6’9 and 7’1 who averaged right around the same number. He had a lot of competition for rebounds on those Celtics teams.

  • T-Money

    i’ve noticed something else yesterday in the 4th. bron got CLOBBERED on two makes in the paint where he didn’t fall and didn’t get the calls. can that be part of the reason why stars are flailing, knocking their heads back and screaming when they get touched? it’s like in soccer, nobody wants diving but i’ve never seen a ref give a penalty to someone that didn’t fall down.

  • T-Money

    here’s another suggestion for spo, play wade at the 2, bron at the 3 and bosh at the 4. the role players are not good enough to play your stars out of position. if you had a james harden on the bench, i’d get why you would want to alter line ups but why does wade have to play poitn and bron the 4 to find minutes for miller and battier?

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Because Miller and Battier can’t play out of position. And Bosh is done man. He is not coming back until next season. Not effectively at least.

  • Da-Meat-Hook

    Allenp, I think the only thing Barkley really had on Malone was the ability to create his own shot off of the dribble. Where Malone was quite reliant on the P & R, Barkley had the ability to take bigger defenders out to the perimeter and create his own shot. I also think Malone had the benefit of playing with John Stockton for 15+ seasons and also had the tutelage of Sloan. And that’s no not on the Mailman, I just think he was surrounded by more talent for a longer period of time. They’re both in my top 4 PFs of all time!

  • Da-Meat-Hook

    *no knock on the Mailman

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    TD, KG, Malone, Barkley.

  • Da-Meat-Hook

    nbk, what’s the latest you’ve heard on Bosh’s status? I’ve been out of the loop. Last I heard, the strain was moderate and he would only have to miss this series (which may mean the end of this season).

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    There’s no explanation for why some people have KG and Barkley above Malone. If it weren’t for a lack of rings, Malone would be by far the greatest PF.

  • Da-Meat-Hook

    Who had the highest ceiling between Kemp, Webber, and Sheed?

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    Your could use that argument for KG too though JT…if he and TD swapped teams for thier careers, there’s a pretty good chance KG would have all those rings instead.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    I have KG above Malone. And I don’t think it’s the big of a debate. Malone was a better scorer. But he wasn’t clearly better at anything else. So I guess it depends if you value scoring more than, defense. The other categories, (passing, rebounding, leading a team) are all negotiable. I’ll take Garnett

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    DMH – Typically an abdominal strain takes 4-6 weeks to recover from. I mean Bosh can take some pain medication or take a pain shot and numb the area, but then he’s risking a major injury. I don’t see him being anything resembling his regular self again this post-season.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    If they all had the same amount of championships. then sure, Malone is #1…but this is reality, not hypothetical land.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    @ meat hook – I’d say Sheed had the most potential. I firmly believe he was every bit as talented as KG and TD, he was just never as mature, mentally tough, or willing to lead.

  • Da-Meat-Hook

    Thanks nbk. That really sucks!

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Why is this so shocking to you Taylor? Barkley could do more on a basketball floor than Malone could. I think Malone was slightly better, but it is because of consistency not because of skill/talent. Barkley is arguably better than Malone. I comes down to preferences and team needs when deciding who you want more.

  • Kadavour

    I take KG over Duncan. His intensity and versatility on defense give him the edge. I also think he spreads the floor better than Duncan. I could only imagine the damage he would have done if he had a guy like Rondo to create pick and rolls for him when he was in Minny.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Wayno, I’m not so sure about that. Maybe KG wins 1-2 rings with the spurs but not the 4 TD has so far. KG and TD are totally different players with different styles. I think having a big man that dominates on the low block (TD) vs a big that shoots jumpers (KG) gives you a higher chance at winning championships.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    yep Miami is in trouble. This is LeBron’s big chance to shut everyone up. If he can somehow win a title without Bosh then i don’t think there will be much to any logical criticism of him. Unless of course he continues to struggle in the last 2 minutes while winning games. He’ll be labeled as one of the best 46 minute players of all-time. ANd probably until he wins some games in the finals that are close in the closing minutes.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    KG is higher for defense and passing. Barkley is behind Malone on my list. Mainly because Maloney was far more consistent and durable than Charles. And Barkley played with the Sixers vets, Kevin Johnson (check his numbers) and Hakeem. He played with MORE talent than Malone.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Duncan is far better than Garnett as a low block scorer. Really as a scorer in general. Everything else is fairly even although Garnett is more versatile on defense.

  • BlackStar

    @Meat Hook – Definitely Sheed. If he had a better work ethic, he would be a top 5 PF without question … And to think, he still won a ring playing half hearted basketball. SMH …

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    All I care about when ranking/judging players historically is how well the performed/dominated on the basketball court. Now if we were talking “better player”, that would be different because I think Prime KG and Prime Barkley were better than Prime Malone but Malone’s extended dominance gives him the edge historically.

  • Da-Meat-Hook

    Allenp, Malone is ahead of Barkley on my list as well, but Barkley got to play with a healthy KJ for what, 3 seasons, tops? And Barkley was a shell of the player he was by the time he got to Houston to join Dream. Again, I’m in no way saying Barkley was the superior player, I’m just suggesting that playing with the greatest P&R pg off all time coupled with playing under a top 10 coach of all time is a pretty good situation to be in. Barkley had Doc and Moses at the tail end of their careers, KJ for a few seasons, and Dream when he was out to pasture.

  • http://nba.com GP23

    Ok cool, now how about top 5 SG’s
    I have
    1. Jordan
    2. Kobe
    3. West
    4. Iverson
    5. Drexler

  • Da-Meat-Hook

    Co-sign Wayno and BlackStar, Webber and Kemp were absolute beasts, but Sheeds toolbox was INSANE. His length, fundamentals, touch, and little white patch of hair were things of beauty!

  • Da-Meat-Hook

    GP23 NO WADE IN YOUR TOP 5???

  • http://nba.com GP23

    Meat Hook.. it was tough, I had him at 6, but I totally understand if he is in your top 5.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Allen can you really give the edge to Garnett in defense? I think that’s closer than you think. Duncan’s passing is also much better, though KG has better ball handling. Kinda washes out. That said, Duncan is far and away the best PF of all time. To me, it’s Timmy, then everybody else.

  • ti-sizzle

    I have Wade on my top5 WNBA shooting guard list.

  • Bola

    I know this aint in the convo but i take my boy Hakeem Olajuwon. Maybe because he comes from my father’s land. but boy Hakeem was a center playing like a small/power forward. He had one of the best moves in the NBA. he crossed defenders without moving his foot.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Man when Barkley joined the Sixers they had just gone to the Eastern Conference Finals and were two years removed from winning the Championship in one of the most dominant runs in NBA history. There weren’t that far into their decline. Nah, Chuck just wasn’t serious. He’s admitted this.
    Although I will admit that Barkley was an elite rebounder his entire career and Garnett has not been one.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Caboose I didn’t give Garnett the edge on defense. I just said he was more versatile. That doesn’t mean he’s better.
    And KJ was hurt during a part of his tenure with Chuck, but he was still quite good.
    Malone had Stockton, and then who else?

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Garnett is the best passing PF ever.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Didn’t you just read that Horny article AP!? That’s who else.
    Haha, nah, Barkley was technically around more talent, but Malone was around more consistent better coached talent.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Fair enough Allen, he definitely is more versatile. Lake I should have specified, Timmy passes out of the post better, Garnett can run a team like a SF with his ball handling and passing.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    That I can accept!

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    Ok, so throw career accomplishments out the window…based on talent alone, which PF do you pick to start a team.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    It’s between McHale and TD.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Wayno: Duncan.

  • Da-Meat-Hook

    “Malone and Stockton, and who else” is like saying for his first 3 rings Jordan and Pip and who else? We’re talking 2 players who are arguably top 2 or 3 ALL TIME at their respective positions. And then throwing in a Top 10 coach of all time! Also, Mark Eaton, Thurl Bailey, Jeff Malone and then later Horny and Antoine Carr were all great role players in their day.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    Yeah, I don’t think you can really make an argument that Malone didn’t ever have a supporting cast…he just fell victim to playing during MJ’s prime.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Jeff Hornacek did play in an All-Star game. He was far from a no-name teammate. Not saying he swung the pendulum, Barkley still had superior teammates. KJ (who was healthy in terms of going into the playoffs every year so his injuries are pretty irrelevant to the discussion) Majerle, Chambers Ceballos, Dumas, Ainge is a much better supporting cast than anything Stockton and Malone ever had. Just saying, Malone and Stockton weren’t surrounded by chopped liver, they probably would have won a title if it weren’t for his airness.

  • Kadavour

    depends on what you want from you PF spot. If i want defensive versatility and rebounds, i’m going with Rodman. If i want a post up 4, i’m going McHale. If I want someone to spread the floor, Garnett.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I went back and thought about it. And while I think Barkley had better talent, you all are correct that Malone had more than just Stockton. I knew about Hornacek, but he also had some other talent.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Kadavour, Wait hold on, I realize McHale has a ton of moves in the post. But are you honestly trying to argue you would rather have him on the block than Tim Duncan? Really? Anyone else feel this way? And why? That seems outlandish too me.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    Whoa…I like Rodman, but more than TD, Garnett, Barkley, Malone? No way. He went beyond being a bad scorer, he was actually an offensive liability. All of the other PFs in the discussion were two way players at an elite level.

  • Da-Meat-Hook

    Chambers retired in ’93, he wasn’t the Chambers that we know.Dumas had a very solid rookie season and got the boot for substance abuse soon after. Ainge was a solid spot up shooter and a horrible defensive liability at that point in his career. I won’t lie though, that Suns squad was awesome with Oliver Miller, Thunder Dan, KJ, Ceballos and co!

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Kadavour
    Except Garnett can provide you with rebounds, defense, decent post up and spreading the floor.
    And Duncan can provide with all of that in one package as well.
    That’s why I have those two above everybody else. We have not seen many players like Garnett and Duncan in the history of the NBA as this current crop of power forwards proves.
    I mean, they were so great they completly overshadowed the careers of cats like Chris Webber and Rasheed and LJ and others. And Duncan didn’t get into the League until 1997.

  • http://nba.com GP23

    So nobody cares about the top 5 SG’s debate then??

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    DMH – I was only talking about the 93 season. And Chambers was still a good player, he averaged like 12 and 4 (as the 7th option). He was still good. Dumas was really good that year. And Ceballos was pretty good as well. I think Ceballos and Chambers both averaged like 12 and 4 or 5 off the bench.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    GP, almost everyone’s looks like this,
    .
    Jordan,
    Kobe,
    West,
    Iverson,
    Wade.
    -
    Some people classify Oscar Robertson as a 2.
    Some people classify Iverson as a 1.
    That is almost all of the parity, I doubt many other people have Drexler or Reggie in there over any of those guys. I think it wouldn’t be much of a debate. But I could be wrong..

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    nbk: Reggie better not be anywhere close to that list. I’m sorry, but I think Reggie is the most overrated player in NBA history.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    lol hater. Reggie shouldn’t be on anyone’s top 5, but he isn’t too overrated if he’s not. He was a good player.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    From 1989/90-2000/01 – Reggie Miller.
    .
    FG: 6.7 FGA: 14.0 FG% .476 3P: 2.0 3PA: 5.0 3P%: .402 FT: 5.2 FTA: 5.9 FT%: .889 TRB: 3.2 AST: 3.2 STL: 1.2 TOV: 2.0 PTS: 20.6
    .
    Those are solid solid numbers. For a decade.

  • http://nba.com GP23

    Top 5 centers
    1. Wilt
    2. Russell
    3. Kareem
    4. Shaq
    5. Hakeem

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    I would take Prime Clyde over Prime AI.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Michael Redd has similar numbers. Also for a decade.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    20.0PPG, 4.0RPG, 2.3APG, 45%, 38%, 1.0stl, 1.7TO – So yes, similar. But worse. And we all know how bad Michael Redd was defensively right?

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Michael Redd is only in his 11th season btw. So it’s not like splitting his numbers into a decade really paints you a picture of how good he was over a sustained period of time. He had two seasons where he averaged over 25PPG. Which totally flub his decade average. Before and after those seasons his combined averages are/were 16 and 17 points per game. Not really an extended career of dominant play. He was a really really good offensive player for 6 years. Other than that, his knee injury really screwed up what could have been a great career. — And for the record, I have Reggie after Ray Allen on my SG list. I just wanted to point out he’s not really overrated as long as people aren’t putting him on a pedestal.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVM11tMaMWg LakeShow

    Don’t hate on Regg Caboose. He might get tossed around with the greats a little too much, but everyone knows he’s on the outside looking in of all-timers. He is probably top 8 SG’s for sure.
    Your right nbk, pretty much the only discrepancy in the SG list is going to be whether you find AI to be a PG or SG, and ditto with Big O.
    I’m just going to say it. I have a huge problem with Wilt and Russell being placed as the 2 best centers ever. Maybe from a career accomplishments stand point, but the L was completely different when they played and i’m 100% positive that Shaq, Hakeem and Kareem were better players than both of them. Not at certain things(eg. Wilt’s athleticism, Russells defense) but they were better players.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    1) Jordan, 2a) Robertson, 2b) Bryant, 4) West, 5) Iverson, 6) Wade, 7) Maravich, 8) Drexler, 9) Ray Allen, 10) Reggie Miller.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    By far the two hardest positions to come up with top 10′s for are PG and SF. SF being absurd after the top 5 which still has plenty of parody.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVM11tMaMWg LakeShow

    Taylor, something is wrong with you.
    Although, The Glide did have an 8 assist season in his 3rd year. That kind of shocked me. Dude could pass the ball!
    What is “prime” Clyde anyway? He was a good defender some years. Better scorer other years. Better passer certain years. Not a prolific rebounder from the 2 spot per his size ever(till his last couple years).
    AI is better by quite a bit imo. But I only caught the end of Drexler’s career as opposed to all of AI’s.
    Damn, forgot about The Pistol. Alright Regg doesn’t make my top 8 either lol.

  • http://nba.com GP23

    What about George Gervin and Manu Ginobili in the SG list?

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    I classify Gervin as a SF. And Manu has just not been productive enough to be on that list. His career averages are like 15Pts 4Rbs 4Ast – He has been fortunate to play for San Antonio, but that isn’t enough of a reason to give him the nod over any of those guys.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Lake, prime Clyde is the cat that put up 27/6/6 with 2.5spg on 50% shooting and 27/8/6 with 2.7spg on 50% shooting in back-to-back seasons. AI never came close to putting up similar all-around numbers nor did he ever come close to matching Clyde’s efficiency.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Drexler and Iverson are just too different. I wouldn’t be able to pick one over the other without knowing who I’m picking them to play with.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I have no problem with people having Drexler higher than Iverson.
    Awesome scorer, efficient player, very good consistency and team success.
    I mean, I’m partial to Iverson because that’s my guy, but it is perfectly reasonable to have Drexler and West higher than him. You can even make the argument for Wade, although that’s a more difficult argument in my opinion.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    AllenP, so you have AI ahead of West?

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Man, if you look at Wade v Drexler at the same point in each career, Wade is clearly the better player. And in actual age they are only separated by a year. That and Wade has won a championship and won a finals MVP. So he’s accomplished just as much in his career in less time.

  • http://www.facebook.com/joe.l.brewer3 BlackPhantom

    Top SGs:

    1)Jordan
    2a)Kobe
    2b)Jerry West
    4)Clyde the Glide
    5)Allen Iverson
    6)D-Wade
    7)Pistol Pete
    8)Ray Allen
    9)Joe Dumars
    10)Reggie Miller

  • Anthony

    Who would you rather have on your team, both on their prime, Manu or Ray Allen ?

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    I wish I got to watch more Maravich. I would probably rank him higher if I actually got to see all the things he could do.

  • Matt Park

    I would rather have Manu in his prime…

  • shutup

    I posted this on another thread but the question begs to be asked. How sick would it be if KG and TD faced off in the finals? Rondo vs Parker. Manu vs Allen. Pierce vs Diaw or Jackson. LBJ and KD have got years ahead of them to compete for supremacy this matchup is long overdo much like Henderson vs Shogun. For those that don’t watch UFC; youtube that fight- epic battle.

  • Scott

    If Caboose’s mom wasn’t a sleazy cumdumpster, would we have to suffer his comments? If nbk wasn’t a virgin, would he be here talkin bout dead ball players? If Allenp wasn’t into men, would he analyze the league so hard? If shutup would follow his name, would we all still be reading his stupidity? If Lakeshow wasn’t a sissified panzy, would it be as fun to son him? If JTaylor wasn’t a geek, would anyone respect him? If Da Meat Hook didn’t like his meat hooked, would he and Wayno give each other braino?

  • http://www.google.be/imgres?q=NO!+meme&um=1&hl=nl&sa=N&rlz=1C1AFAB_enBE454BE454&biw=1600&bih=763&tbm=isch&tbnid=L3l0ZW3D5dDSDM:&imgrefurl=http://forthesakeofscience Max

    ^LOL

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Shutup
    I would love to see that, but the problem is that I would have to listen to another summer and season of LeBron analysis.

  • everything

    still rooting for the heat to tie up the series. if wade can score at least 20 and the third leading scorer can reach double figures, heat can still steal a game in indiana and head back home with homecourt adv intact.

  • hillbilly

    @Scott: That, good sir, was a thing of beauty. I hereby award you the entire internets.

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