Friday, July 13th, 2012 at 5:30 pm  |  96 responses

Knicks Reportedly Unhappy With Rockets’ $25 Million Offer to Jeremy Lin

New York has sworn up and down that they will match whatever offer restricted free agent Jeremy Lin got on the market. The Houston Rockets upped their original offer to Lin today — which, naturally, he signed — and the Knicks are reportedly unhappy with the higher cost to retain the popular guard. Per the NY Post: “Jeremy Lin has signed a revamped Rockets offer sheet for three years and $25 million, according to a league source. All $25 million is guaranteed. With the previous offer sheet Lin was to be guaranteed $18.5M of a four-year, $28.8M offer sheet. There is no fourth year on this deal. The Knicks expect to receive the offer sheet soon and have 72 hours to match. A league source said the Knicks were ‘unhappy’ at the change in the terms, but Houston was in its right because Lin wasn’t able to sign the documents until July 11. A source said the Rockets were desperate because they’ve lost all their point guards and wanted to make it harder on the the Knicks. The Knicks were originally expected to get the offer sheet two days ago but the Rockets dragged their feet amid reports the Knicks were planning to match it. In this new deal, Lin will make $5M the first year, $5.2M in year two and the maximum $15M in year three. In previous offer sheet Lin was to make $9.3 million in the third year. Sources said Lin was unhappy the third year was so low and his camp tried to get Houston to increase it.”

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  • NetsRTakingOver


  • JML-G

    Knicks should say f it and just get Felton

  • Alex

    That’s Lin for you, his value went up after winning the ESPY, and will keep going up everyday!

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    So, the third year of Jeremy Lin’s contract is the expiring year of Amar’e/Melo/Chandler at a combined $61,537,876.00 – HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Darryl Morey is the king asshole

  • http://www.slamonline.com 19821982

    Wow – Houston, good move. Very, very good move.

  • RunNGun

    Wow… that’s a hefty third year. LOL Make it happen, Dolan!

  • http://9gag.com/gag/4568611 Max

    I like this one lol

  • http://Slamonline.com Jzakoni

    Can’t a young chinese ni99a get money anymore?!

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Well he’s actually an American. His family is Chinese. So, um, we’ll see?

  • RunNGun

    Correction: Taiwanese, not Chinese.

  • http://redoftoothandclaw.ca/ niQ

    Morey drops the bomb! lol

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    right. my bad.

  • Jlin

    Since when Taiwanese is not Chinese? I thought Taiwan is just park of China.

  • Stevea

    His third year could potentially cost the Knicks $45 million alone if they’re over the cap, which they most likely will be with their current roster. That’s a heavy pill to swallow, but still less than the $1 billion Dolan threw out there, so I guess it’s a bargin.

  • Steve the cannon

    Thr knicks need to let him walk and sign felton. Lin is wayyyy over rated.

  • jinolin

    I don’t like this, but if he develops into a semi all-star it will be worth the upfront cost (the contract itself) in the long run.

  • Yep

    as if gms in this league have this little respect for each other. it’s a wonder trades ever get done. i would find it hilarious if the knicks somehow put a hitch in houston’s efforts to get dwight because of this

  • http://Slamonline.com Chubachuchi

    @ Jlin They’re both ethnically Chinese but they have been rivals since the government in Taiwan is anti-Communist. They’re separate countries of Chinese people I think ready to blow each others head off. Correct me if I’m wrong though not lol

  • http://www.nba.com Dacre

    And in other news feathers weigh next to nothing.

  • http://www.slamonline.com 19821982

    I went through this last time it was brought up and hit some nerves… They’re separate countries, and China claims Taiwan as their own and Taiwan claims independence. They went through civil war and now the US is Taiwan’s largest ally and the only reason China hasn’t physically invaded. As far as Taiwanese being Chinese, that’s more nomenclature than nationality. In the same way someone annoying could argue Canadians are technically “Americans” since they’re both in North America. People from China are Chinese and People in Taiwan are Taiwanese – I can see why anybody else might as well just say Chinese unless you’re interested in a geography lesson.

  • Valkyrie

    China still tries to claim Taiwan. The international community recognizes it as independent of China. Same ethnicity, different nationalities officially.

  • JJ

    Moley is a genius. Hoping that Lin goes to Houston!

  • Valkyrie

    The official language is Mandarin. Frequently spoken is Hakka, which originated in the Fujian region of China.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    lol…awesome “f-you” move by Houston.

  • http://www.pisforprops.com jadams12

    Houston just salty

  • Gus

    somebody forgot to double check that knee…

  • Dingo Rob

    Good on you Lin take what you can get because this will be your last contract, I don’t rate this guy as a player as someone still a starter in 3 years

  • JB

    Fire Knicks front office!

  • Toner

    Wow, 25 mil guaranteed for 3 years? Morey is going balls-deep on Dolan LOL

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    This is what happens when you make the stupid business decision of saying, “We’ll match any offer.” Sometimes bad business makes bad results.

  • http://www.twitter.com/hurstysyd Hursty

    Houston – troll hard.
    LOL @NBK’s 1st comment.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Redd

    Rockets did the same thing with my Bulls, I know how u feel Knick fans. But yeah Lin isn’t worth resigning dude ain’t that good at all.

  • Valkyrie

    I do think they’ll overpay for Lin, especially since he signed the offer sheet from the Rockets.

  • Bt

    This is actually better. Now he cones off the books at the same time as melo/amare/Chandler

  • Allenp

    He would be making Lebron money in Year three. Crazy.

  • James Dolan’s$

    For how much money Lin brought in last season, the Knicks should shut their f***ing mouths and sign him for whatever he wants. Dudes a ticket seller regardless of his on-court play.

  • http://whut Ugh

    $15M in year three for a guy who won’t be starting is stupid. Knicks ought to let him go just to spite the Rockets.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    @ 1982: I wasn’t going to say anything, but your admiration (or what seems like it) of the US and their imperialist involvement in Asia really bothers me.
    So let’s talk about Taiwan. First, what you say is just not true. Taiwan is not a sovereign state. The US doesn’t even recognize Taiwan as being independent, and they’re Taiwan’s most vocal supporter. As of now, there are only 22 countries who have formal diplomatic relations with Taiwan and hence recognize it as being independent; most of them are countries that have been ravaged by US imperialism (i.e. Guatemala)… So US “support” is not a thing to be bragging about.
    Also the issue of Taiwan was traditionally not whether there should be two separate states, i.e. the PRC and ROC co-existing on equal terms. The Taiwanese question has (revolved around WHICH government is the sole legitimate representative of the CHINESE nation to the international community. That’s the dispute. Now, you might WANT both nations to exist as legitimate, equal and independent members of the UN, but that’s NOT what the dispute has been about historically.
    As I’m sure you know, prior to 1971 the Republic of China (which is today Taiwan and which was, prior to 1949, ALL of China), had the Chinese seat on the United Nations Security Council. And then, even AFTER the People’s Republic of China replaced Taiwan at the security council, the ROC continued to voice itself as the sole legitimate government of ALL of China. Since it clearly is not that today, only then do we arrive at the question of establishing the “Republic of Taiwan”. But in order to do so, Taiwan would have to draft a new constitution and relinquishing its title as the “Republic of China.”

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    And do people in Taiwan really want to establish an independent Republic of Taiwan? TVBS did a survey in 2010 and these were the results: 64% favor the status quo, 19% favor independence, and 5% favor complete re-unification with the People’s Republic of China. An overwhelming majority of people favor the status quo, which basically makes Taiwan equivalent to that of Hong Kong–a member of China with its own unique system of governance. Not completely united with the Communist government, but NOT separate or independent from China, the NATION. So, unless we start calling people from Hong Kong “Hong Konginese,” then I see no reason why we should be conscious of calling someone like Jeremy Lin “Taiwanese.” This is not to insult my brothers and sisters in Taiwan… I have nothing but love for everyone there… But Taiwan is not independent. That is fact.
    In my opinion the only people who have a legitimate case about being independent in Taiwan, and who can really call themselves “Taiwanese” (though they wouldn’t because they have their own languages), are the original indigenous islanders. But we sure as hell don’t need the white man in Washington to tell us how to solve our internal problems or how to build unity between our races.

  • O

    WHY are f*ckers talking about where he from and not what he REALLY worth? Rockets are just trying to get ANYBODY to market the team now that they gutting it to get Dwight. They get Dwight and Lin and they jersey sales sky rocket. I’m hella disappointed in Lin cause he should know or at least speculate that this a jux move. At Least LeBron, Wade and Bosh were willing to take pay cuts. ALLLL Knicke players are trying to get MAX contracts. Lin, you KNOW you ain’t worth that much, kid! You trying to get money or you trying to compete for a title? You say you about winning yet, you still signed off on a team that’s going nowhere if they don’t get Dwight. I thought this kid was allll heart, but son is all brain. Get Kim Kardashian to half-ass polish that for ya, Harvard grad. NYC is hella disappointed in ya…

  • WhatHappenedToBasketballChat?

    First off, the first two years of his contract make a lot of sense for the knickerbockers. Granted he only had the opportunity to showcase his talents in about 30 games, those 30 games he played solid to great. Like every good point guard, you go through the turnover thang and have to get used to the speed of the game. He’s definitely gotten used to it and is a good, yes good NBA point guard. As for that whole 3rd year/15million dollar thing, they have a few options. Trade, amnesty, or maybe he may actually be worth every penny of his deal(Oh he is, Rashard Lewis made 22 million last year, LOLz..)

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    @ Omar: What do you expect Lin to do? Of course he’s trying to get money as a professional basketball player! And yes he really is worth that much considering how much money he makes/will make for the Knicks organization and especially Jim Dolan. Plus, Dolan can afford him. Who really cares if Jimmy’s pockets get a little lighter (which they actually won’t considering how much money he’s about to make from Lin). Chill, holmes. You got ants in your pants? haha.

  • IndyB

    Teddy, you are the motherf#cking man.

  • http://slamonline.com tealish

    Teddy knows his ish. I’ve come to learn this fact.

  • Drig

    Teddy went Grizzly there for a sec…..And Morey, very very good. NYK just dug itself another grave lol.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    In other news, Kings are unhappy that Popovich is not their coach, Magic are unhappy that other teams don’t want to trade their full rosters for Dwight, Lakers are unhappy they have to share their profits, Wizards are unhappy Andre Blatche still exists, and the Bobcats are just unhappy.

  • Ryan

    Teddy is distorting facts I’ve lived in Taiwan for eight years and to say that the overwhelming majority of people prefer the status quo is very misleading. People here would like 1) independence and 2) peace they only value the status quo because of China’s violent policies toward the island which make independence and peace nearly impossible.

    Most of the Taiwanese people I know would take offense to being called Chinese and will happily correct anyone who makes the mistake. They have a wide variety of reasons for identifying as Taiwanese including 1) love of their beautiful homeland 2) valuing their human rights and freedoms 3) valuing their Taiwanese culture which is similar to but distinct from Chinese culture… I could go on and on but very few people here (especially people under 45) would ever identify themselves as Taiwanese.

    We should respect the way people choose to identify themselves and try to refer to them by their names they choose. Jeremy Lin would probably just say he’s American but if not I bet he’d prefer Taiwanese-American. Just figured I’d offer a little counter to Teddy’s lopsided and somewhat uniformed view.

    As for Jeremy Lin’s contract good for him and good move by Houston. I’m not sure he’s worth all that money but I am sure he’ll try to be. Houston is doing a lot of interesting stuff this off season and I’m curious to see how it’ll shake out.

  • http://Slamonline.com 1982

    Slams not posting my overly long reply to you Teddy, so I’ll just say this – the last time we talked about this you made it clear that you’ve never been to Taiwan and quite frankly don’t know anything Wikipedia didn’t make clear to you. You didn’t even know there was a Taiwanese language or a Taiwanese national basketball team in existence. I’ve lived there half my life, and I wouldn’t trust TVBS more than you would trust Fox news, much less with a report from over 2 years ago. I know more about this than you do – period. If we had a conversation about this where you couldn’t google anything, I’m sure that would be very clear. I never said the US supported Taiwan independence, I said The US, as an ally, is the main reason China has not outright tried to reclaim Taiwan.

  • http://Slamonline.com 1982

    Furthermore, when I meet people who speak Mandarin in business, and they get excited that I do too – that excitement quickly fades when they find out that My family is from Taiwan, not Mainland China. In Mandarin, the distinction isn’t as blurred as it is in English – we’re not all Chinese. It’s defined as Mainland and Taiwan to the Taiwanese. We went over this the last time – just because the name China exists in both official titles does not mean the two peoples see each other as the same. The title comes from the civil war split. My grandfather is of one of Chiang Kai Shek’s generals who escaped to Taiwan after the defeat. I’m American as far as I care to say, but you’re assumptions about a place you’ve never been to, and quite frankly only read about online, are troubling to say the least.

  • http://Slamonline.com 1982

    Next time you meet a Taiwanese person under 50, ask them if they’re from China and see if they really do just shrug it off. If you meet a Taiwanese person Over 50, try telling him that his country isn’t real and see if he stops himself from attacking you. You keep bringing up the original aborigine people of Formosa who were there before the Chinese nationalists moved into town and slaughtered them to take their land as if you are some type of activist for them. Have you ever met one of them? I have, and so have my extended family who have lived in Taiwan longer than I have been alive. Your claim that they are the only people who deserve to be called Taiwanese is the equivalent to saying American Indians are the only real Americans. Your claim that Taiwan isn’t a sovereign state is the most telling of all – I’m not here to argue that, but your viewpoint is clearly that of the Mainland Chinese. If I had to identify ethnically, it would be Taiwanese. If you did, I’d have to assume you’re Mainland. Considering how different our opinions are on the subject, I think it’s pretty safe to say there’s still a large distance between China and Taiwan. That’s the point – China claims that Taiwan isn’t a sovereign state, and Taiwan claims that it is. Who’s right? That’s something generations of people have been fighting about. You’re claim that we’re not shows where you stand, which is fine. But you’re assumption that you’re right is clearly misguided, as there’s an Island full of people who I know would argue otherwise.

  • http://whut Ugh

    I love it when Slam comments section gets serious. For real, this is great.

  • http://Slamonline.com 1982

    Taiwan has its own National Anthem, its own GDP, its own money, its own army, and its own bloody history. I’ve had very uncomfortable discussions with old Taiwanese men, and the grandchildren of these men (who are my generation) who will swear to their dying day that Taiwan is independent. One of these grandchildren started crying because his story was about how Mainland Chinese soldiers blinded his Grandfather as a Taiwanese prisoner. So no, it doesn’t just seem harmless when you assume the Taiwanese and The Mainlanders are just part of a Gilligans Island mix-up. There’s a lot of bad blood, and a lot of consistent threats that my mother still complains to me about because it affects the stock market when Taiwan is threatened. That’s the extent of her own feelings towards the mainland – let her make her money, let her keep her job, and let her live her life. Internationally recognized status be damned. All of her friends that I have met have voiced similar opinions. Your TVBS can kiss my arse.

  • Ryan

    Yeah it’s not a bad thing at all. On the ground here in Taichung, Taiwan the kids LOVE basketball playing out in the blazing sun and ridiculous humidity. If Jet Chang makes the Timberwolves squad it’s going to get crazy over hear.

  • Ryan

    Here not hear. Damnit.

  • jub_al

    @RunNGun – good job igniting this never-ending and pointless debate (pointless only because the two sides will always agree to disagree)

    Either way… like a few comments above mentioned… this contract is as much an endorsement contract as it is a basketball contract…
    Jeremy Lin, regardless of how each of you view his ability as a basketball player, created his own brand and market over a span of 3 weeks last year. He was the right guy doing the right thing at the right time in the right arena, and now he is simply cashing in on his brand / product…

    All basketball players are an investment and the yield on most of these investments are based on their abilities to perform on the court. Fortunately for Jeremy Lin, the potential ROI on him grew exponentially because his ethnic background and story resonates with over 1.3 BILLION (population of China…the “over” consists of fans from Taiwan and HK) potential-ticket / jersey –buyers… if EVEN JUST 1% of these newfound fans decide to buy a #17 jersey, and assuming a jersey is $80 (conservative guess to be on the safe side), that is $1,040,000,000 of gross sales… Put this into perspective and suddenly, a 3 year / $25 mil (only 6 zeros..) contract almost seems unfair…

  • Jono

    In other news, water taste good when you’re thirsty.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    I like I said before, Houston is laughing at the Knicks, what a waste of money.

  • http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2011/10/nfl-players-advice-to-lebron-james-stick-to-basketball/ shutup

    LOL just don’t ask Teddy what he thinks of America.

  • http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2011/10/nfl-players-advice-to-lebron-james-stick-to-basketball/ shutup

    Of course Houston is willing to pay for Lin, they know first hand what he’s worth, from their Yao experience, take that and consider the fact he is closer to the avg Chinese/Taiwanese (I’ll leave that debate to the more informed) and he is a guard, which usually are more marketable to begin with and a scorer which compounds his mass appeal, his value will well exceed whatever contract he eventually signs.

  • http://slamonline.com Mars

    Saying someone is Taiwanese is like saying someone is a Texan. They’re still native to the country. Who cares. He’s American born. Everybody tryna claim everybody. We all are human beings from Earth. Good Luck Lin.

  • J. Lee

    The NY Knicks need to be smart in their decision making. This should be a basketball decision and nothing else. Is Lin worth the money on the court or are the Knicks looking and Lin as a cash cow. THe only object should be is to get the best players on your team.

  • O

    You right, Teddy. Lin is worth that much as far as marketing and such, but his actual basketball skills aint. And yeah, i had a bad day yesterday and went off on Lin when I read about this. LOL. My bad, dunn.

  • http://slamonline.com Chinese Oppenheimer

    Boom goes the dynamite

  • pposse

    Is linn seriously going to b the starting pg on the east all star team?? Smh that will be a damn shame, for this reason and this reason alone I hope mainland china hates linn

  • http://www.nba.com Shadojoker

    Classy move

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    haha no worries O, I was just playing about that last part, I was actually imitating Chili from “Fresh”, lol. Hope you’re feeling better man.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    @ Ryan: First of all your living in Taiwan for 8 years has nothing to do with Taiwan’s status as a nation–which it is NOT. How about we stick to facts? My view is not uninformed, it’s based on actual fact, which is that no country outside of those aforementioned 22 recognize Taiwan as being an independent nation.
    Second, please spare me that crap about how “they like their human rights and freedoms so they can’t join China.” That’s nothing but white-washed Western nonsense.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    @ 1982: Ummm okay, last time I was being way too nice. That does not mean I know nothing about China’s history, which INCLUDES Taiwan. Are you actually going to argue that people in Taiwan and people in China do not share a common history? At least prior to 1949? Good luck with that.
    I obviously know about the history of our people. I just didn’t know whether your claims about people in Taiwan seeing themselves as independent had any weight, so I used the Internet to search for opinion polls; there’s nothing wrong with doing your research.
    And yes, I do see the indigenous Native Americans as being the only true Americans and Canadians. Nothing can erase the fact that these Anglo-European nations were built on the genocide of Native Americans. But you know the irony of bringing up this comparison is that Taiwan’s been a part of China for hundreds of years longer than the United States has belonged to Europeans.

  • http://Slamonline.com 1982

    Let’s stay on topic – and I’m obviously referring to just the two of us because we hijacked this one. I’m not saying I disagree about Native Americans, but what you believe about their birthright and their true national status is opinion. If it were true – they should be able to just sign a few petitions and have the rest of us removed. If you’re unwilling to leave the US as a sign of goodwill to the true Americans, then your opinions about them are moot as far as here. The native aborigines in Taiwan have a history, a sacred tradition, and participate yearly in national Taiwanese festivals while representing themselves. But I’m sure you already knew that. If you’re so gungho about a shared history, then the entire worlds people share a history, Teddy. You don’t respect Taiwan’s claims of independence, and Id be the first to tell you that you’re not alone. But you keep repeating IT’s FACT! IT’s FACT! As if the current status of relations isn’t literally a blind eye peripheral view from all parties involved, includIng the international community. If you asked the president of Taiwan if Taiwan was independent, he’d currently say yes – but a very carefully worded yes because a “IT’S FACT!” would cause China’s threats to start again and then the US would be the ones going, now now, largest manufacturers of international products, let’s keep calm here. And then both armies go back to standing by. I’m not stupid – I’m aware Taiwan is 3 quarters the size of California, and would get obliterated if China actually invaded. But the mere fact that China has to invade to take control proves that China isn’t currently in charge. Your claims about shared history have nothing to do with the current conversation. Yes, Chinese nationals ALL went over to Taiwan after being soundly defeated. But it’s not like when they arrived it was an island of aborigines. My grandmother was already there, and so was her family of Taiwanese people before that. Before the Nationalists, Taiwan was a playground for rich Japanese and Chinese who had no care for war or national pride. I’m positive you didn’t know that, and have always assumed the Aborigines were jus being peaceful natives until 1949. If you really want to argue that the aborigines were unfairly slaughtered and their land taken from them, then I suggest you start your angry letter by directing it at the Japanese because they did it first. Well, actually, the Dutch did. I wasn’t saying I know And Taiwanese history didn’t start when Chiang Kai Shek came over, that’s when the contentious relationship between China and Taiwan did.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    I repeat: Taiwan does NOT consider itself independent or separate from China. It’s a fact whether you like it or not. The 22 aforementioned countries only recognize Taiwan as the legitimate CHINESE nation, and hence do not recognize the People’s Republic of China. The debate about whether there should be a separate Republic of Taiwan is completely unrelated to Taiwan’s official policy.
    If you want some more opinion polls, there was one after 2004 after president Chen Shui-bian made a speech outlining a proposed plan for independence in 2008. 60% favored keeping the status quo, while 65% were AGAINST complete independence. The United Daily News, in 2004, did another one with these results: 36% favor the status quo, 21% favor immediate independence, and 6% favor complete re-unification with the PRC. Again, the status quo does not make Taiwan independent.
    Most people in Taiwan do not support complete independence. That is fact. I admit that even less people want complete re-unification under the Communist government; but again, that makes Taiwan similar to Hong Kong and Macau but NOT independent.
    TVBS did a similar poll back in 2008 with a question of self-identity… When asked what they’d choose if they could only be Taiwanese OR Chinese, 68% of the respondents identified themselves as “Taiwanese” while 18% said “Chinese”. BUT, when the respondents are told that dual identity is an option, 45% of the respondents identify themselves as “Taiwanese only”, 4% of the respondents call themselves “Chinese only,” and 45% of the respondents call themselves “both Taiwanese and Chinese”. I admit that most people in Taiwan don’t want to completely unite with the Communist government, BUT that does not mean most people do not consider themselves Chinese.
    If most people want to maintain the status quo–NOT independent–and a good majority, at least as many as those who want to be completely different, identify themselves as both Taiwanese AND Chinese, then how the hell do you reach the conclusion that Taiwan considers itself a completely sovereign nation?
    Also, a majority of people in the US don’t agree with US military aid to Taiwan, nor do they believe the US should intervene directly were China to attack Taiwan.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    No I don’t want war between Taiwan and China, but I do support our right (yours and mine) to get the imperialist United States the F*CK off our soil.
    As for personal experience, that’s great that your grandfather was a KMT general. You do realize that not everyone living in China was a member of the Communist Party during the civil war, right? Having roots to the Kuomintang Nationalists is something else that the people in Taiwan have in common with China–so no, that unique. My grandpa was a doctor for the KMT army, while his two younger brothers fought for the Communists and were killed during the war. He also has a sister who migrated to Taiwan, who he hasn’t seen since 1949.
    And I do know of the colonial history of Taiwan, which is what I wanted to bring up earlier: You MUST understand the imperialist role of the United States in China (which includes Taiwan throughout history, whether or not you think its independent post-1949). We have to get rid of these artificial boundaries imposed on our people by the European and Japanese imperialists. There IS an identity crisis for Han Chinese in Taiwan because the Japanese colonized them for almost 100 years before WWII and erased much of their national identity. But the KMT has always been a Nationalist CHINESE party, and even when they do not recognize the PRC as China’s legitimate government, they still recognize themselves as CHINESE.
    Here’s a tidbit, which you might know already: Dr. Sun Yat-Sen (Sun Zhong Shan) is the father of modern China, right? He’s revered in both the PRC and Taiwan as a forefather–another shared history between Taiwan and the rest of China. Well his wife, Soong Ching Ling, supported the COMMUNISTS during the civil war and later became co-Chairman of the PRC. She was the first non-royal female head of state, and actually served as president twice; she served as Honorary President of the PRC shortly before she died. Soong Ching Ling’s sister was Chiang Kai Shek’s wife.
    Forget your political ideology for a moment. The PRC and ROC share the same history, the same culture, the same language, the same everything. The bad blood is a result of foreign intervention and colonialism. If you’re worried about the bad blood then you need to understand the root of it.

  • http://Slamonline.com 1982

    None of what you’re saying is actual fact. And yet you keep saying fact. Read through your entire last post and tell me which ones were fact. Polls? Online, Media, and foreign news polls are what you’re using to determine whether an island you’ve never been to wants to be independent? How about I call everyone I know in Taiwan and poll them as to whether or not anyone of them have ever been in any of these polls? Can my poll prove your polls wrong? Or are they all subjective since no one obviously polled every voter in Taiwan? And yes Taiwan does consider itself independent. Where are you getting your information from? Countries that consider us dependants? Have you ever sat through Taiwanese political rallies during the elections? Has the president of Taiwan ever gone to your high school to make speeches about independence? Because so far I’m calling your bluff on everything. The only thing that’s fact is Taiwan claims independence, and China denies it. Taiwanese need visas to enter China, and vice versa. Everything else you’re making up. Show me something that actually say “Taiwan does not consider itself independent” and not just something youre inferring.

  • http://Slamonline.com 1982

    That was obviously in regards to your post about polls, not this last one about history.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    So you won’t believe several different opinion polls conducted by professional journalists that survey thousands of respondents and all come to the same conclusions, over your own experience of dealing with how many people?
    Taiwan is not independent according to every single country but those aforementioned 22, nor has Taiwan declared formal independence! What more do you need to know? The current president, Ma Ying-Jeou, is also more moderate in regards to China. Actually, the Kuomintang Party’s official stance is STILL one of eventual reunification with the mainland, whenever the right conditions and circumstances are available however far away that may be. The KMT is dedicated to reunifying China–they would just probably prefer to do it under their party, which isn’t going to happen. No, Taiwan is not the same as the provinces of mainland China, but that does not make it a separate, wholly independent entity.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Look, we’re talking about Taiwan’s current political status–what it actually is. I’m not saying your personal reasons for wanting Taiwan to be independent are not legitimate, and I’m not denying you the unique circumstances of Taiwan compared to China’s provinces and even the former colonies of Hong Kong and Macau. BUT, I am sick and tired of American/Western propaganda that continues to drive a wedge between China and Taiwan, and I’m sick of g0ddamn ex-colonizers telling us what is and what isn’t Chinese, even whilst they continue to manipulate Taiwan and China against each other.
    Chinese people understand that concessions and compromises will have to be made to unite our peoples, and to smooth over this bad blood. So when you talk about the Chinese (and this is how Western media portrays us as well) as some bloodthirsty animals wanting to invade and destroy Taiwan, and basically commit genocide to secure more territory for ourselves, I have a problem with that. Nobody wants bloodshed. This is not about China vs. Taiwan but about the Chinese peoples (yes pural), which comprise 50 different ethnic groups as well as the entire Chinese diaspora that makes up over 20% of the world’s population ALONE. Like I said before, I have nothing but love for the people of Taiwan.

  • blakos

    Really appreciate this debate Gentleman. Kudos.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    hey Ryan sorry if I was a bit rude to you… safe. Thanks blakos and everyone else. Also thank you 1982 most of all for this discussion; I don’t mean to offend you bro, but my position hasn’t changed, nor do I think it’s as uncommon a position in Taiwan as you claim. I hope to go to Taiwan someday, that’s for sure… I also hope I can trace/find my relatives there. I will always support reconciliation and unity between our peoples, which the US and the West do NOT want for geo-political reasons that have nothing to do with sympathy for the Taiwanese.
    Anyways, respect and good looking on the debate.

  • http://Slamonline.com 1982

    I have no problem with the debate, or you at all. I’m glad we’ve talked about it before, and still do. Slam probably isn’t the best place to do it, and t’s not a black an white issue on either side obviously. I’m playing rec ball though, lol, so I’m answering in between games.

  • furiousfunkfanatic

    What was the lockout for again? This is crazy! Lin is not worth that amount of money. Houston could get a guy like Scott Machado and this wouldn’t be as risky as giving Lin the starting PG-spot.

  • http://www.dimemag.com showtime

    lol… Morey went HAM!!!! He might up F up rhe rockets ( i very un move that D12 is coming) but say i will screw with other org as well.LOL… Well Knick he did just give u 38 Camby lol .. A roster of 15, 14, 20,20. 4 four players on a 7th seed lol…HAMMM

  • O

    Just real that the Knicks are getting Felton in a sign-and-trade and are letting Lin go to the Rockets. We’ll miss you, J.

  • Allenp

    According to the information presented most Taiwanese either consider themselves solely Taiwanese or a mixture of Taiwanese and Chinese.
    And 22 recognize Taiwan as an independent nation but only if it calls itself China.
    Finally while the US has a rich and bountiful history of injustice it is not the cause of the dispute discussed here.

  • http://www.dimemag.com showtime

    Yep all that dunking & hiding $rm that Offer sheet..I guess LInsanity is leaving NYC after all…Morey still went HAmon!!! on that deal. but surely make it up with sale of the already strong ties in Asian community in houston.

  • IndyB

    The U.S is one of the secret instigators of not only the Mainland China/Taiwan conflict, but many more around the globe. Believe that.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Yup, Jeremy is going to the Rockets now, my other favorite team. At least they have a point guard now. Morey is still a dumb@ss though. Glad to see Ray Ray back in New York.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Co-sign IndyB. I would say *most* conflicts, sadly.
    @ Allenp: The US is central to the China/Taiwan conflict. The US were the biggest supporters of Chiang Kai Shek’s Kuomintang Nationalist army and supported them in the war against the Communists. And after China became the People’s Republic of China, the US prevented the UN from recognizing the PRC for 22 years. During this time, they invaded Korea and caused the deaths of millions of Koreans, along with 900,000 Chinese casualties.
    Sorry bro… Lesson #1 is that the US is never blameless. ;)
    “In order to provide covert funds for the Kuomintang (KMT) forces loyal to General Chiang Kai-shek, who were fighting the Chinese communists under Mao Zedong, the CIA helped the KMT smuggle opium from China and Burma to Bangkok, Thailand, by providing airplanes owned by one of their front businesses, Air America.”

  • http://slamonline.com 19821982

    Anyone think Kidd will have a problem backing up Raymond Felton? That’s a completely different scenario..

  • IndyB

    His old azz better not.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Is it me or does it seem like an unusual # of players are going back to their former teams this year? It’s weird.

  • http://www.twitter.com/kevinchung Kevin

    Ridiculous contract but I like the competitiveness shown by the Rockets, even if I don’t necessarily think Jeremy Lin is worth $25 over 3 years..

    PS. I was born in Taiwan, came to Canada at a young age but still have ties to extended family there in Taiwan.. Officially, Teddy is right with most of his assertions but the vast majority of Taiwanese people (ie people living in Taiwan, who were born in Taiwan, or just who identify as being Taiwanese) do NOT think of ourselves as Chinese, regardless of the political details.. My reason is simple – I wasn’t raised in a household that had communist values or that didn’t value human rights, I was raised by Taiwanese parents that take pride in Taiwan’s history/culture/values. So as such, I’m technically Chinese but I’ll still call myself Taiwanese anytime I’m asked & I’ll be happy to point out the differences between the two countries (legally recognized or not) anytime.. I think most Taiwanese people would take offense to being associated with China, even though we are definitely technically Chinese & have the same origins ultimately.. China’s government & history of basically human abuse is NOTHING like Taiwan’s..

  • IndyB

    Kevin, how many Mainlanders have you met? Do you believe that most Chinese citizens are true communists? Do you believe that most Chinese citizens don’t value human rights? Your whole comment was pretty offensive. You are suggesting that mainland Chinese people don’t respect human life the way the Taiwanese do and that’s nothing but Western nonsense. Your “simple reason” is prejudiced, ignorant, and frankly against reality. It really just shows you don’t know much about what Mainland Chinese households value.

  • Allenp

    So Westerns perverted the minds of the people who left China because they disliked communism? Come on now.
    That is like saying Westerners made Miami Cubans hate Castro.
    Nope. Both groups made up their minds mainly on their own. I don’t think communism is some crazy evil but I think like every political system it has been used for horrible injustice. The Taiwanese are.familiar with Chinese abuses because of their shared history not because “The West” corrupted their minds.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Co-sign IndyB again. But I’d say most people in China support the Communist government.
    @ Allenp: It depends on how you define “make.” There would be no Miami Cubans without the United States. And yes they did pervert the minds of Chinese people and Cubans alike, not because of Communism per say, but because of the material interests at stake DUE to Communism.
    You have to understand imperialist economic involvement of the United States in both China and Cuba, and also their class structures prior to Communism, to truly understand why the West is culpable and why these countries turned to Communism in the first place.
    The entire Western capitalist system is predicated upon the development of the few at the expense of the many. Western corporations enter these (usually) non-white countries to strip their resources and control their markets. Every country that exercises resource nationalism (i.e. actual sovereignty and self-development) is a threat to this system and will at some point be subverted by the United States.
    Before we ask ourselves why Miami Cubans hate Castro, we need to ask ourselves why so many people support Castro. The reason is because Cubans prior to the revolution were completely miserable, living under an American puppet-dictatorship. Batista killed and tortured thousands of people with secret police who were trained by the United States. The people who supported the revolution–the overwhelming majority of Cubans–were mostly poor peasants who had their land stolen by US companies, or worked under a rich Cuban minority who profited from the dictatorship. Then of course, Cuba was a haven for the American Mafia… There are some pretty sick stories of Batista’s men kidnapping 11-year-old girls to be r@ped by Mafiamen. Most people were illiterate and had no access to healthcare.
    After the Cuban revolution, most people who fled to Miami were of the upper-classes–landlords and wealthy businessmen who did well under Batista’s fascism. The overwhelming majority, however, took part in the revolution and consisted of the oppressed classes.
    The CIA then helped these Cuban exiles form their own militia, trained them, armed them, and sent them to reconquer Cuba (Bay of Pigs Invasion). Are the Miami Cubans really “victims” of Castro, or is it the other way around?
    We’ve also been fed a lot of BS about Cubans swimming over to Florida, or taking boats to escape that “tyrant” Castro. In reality, most Miami Cubans were flown there by American planes. Cubans in the United States are given benefits and guarantees unavailable to any other immigrant group.
    But Cuba under Castro really is a miracle, and a great example of what Communism can achieve, especially given the US economic blockade… They have a higher literacy rate than the US, a higher number of doctors per 100,000 people, a similar life expectancy, universal healthcare, lower infant mortality rates, lower unemployment rate (only about 1%)–it’s a world leader in all of this–AND they have pretty much zero homelessness. AND the World Wildlife Foundation listed Cuba as the only country in the world with sustainable development! Give me Fidel Castro over George W. Obombney 888888888 times out of 10 each day of the week.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    What Kevin is saying about Taiwan’s so-called “Human Rights” is completely false. It’s hilarious the amount of sheer propaganda that’s been made against China, Cuba, and Communism as a whole. Anyone who opposes Communism is a hero and loves human rights, but if you’re a Communist, you are worse than Hitler. Lol…
    First of all, Taiwan’s current government, the KMT, was the previous government of China. And while they were the government of China, they massacred hundreds of thousands of people for having Communist sympathies. Look up the “Shanghai massacre of 1927.” In the span of 20 days alone, the KMT (Taiwan’s government today) arrested and killed 10,000 Chinese people for being Communists! The following year over 300,000 people died as a result of these Communist purges.
    I mean, it’s incredible what kind of bullsh!t people they pump into our heads. The KMT also controlled the Golden Triangle, which used to be the world’s biggest supplier of opium and heroin. Ever wonder why heroin used to be called “China white”? The Taiwanese government has also massacred indigenous islanders and have used their lands/homes as dumping grounds for toxic waste. Seriously… This is not a “Human Rights abuse Olympics” and I don’t want to demonize the people of Taiwan, who ARE MY PEOPLE too, but get real!!
    Still, everything that’s been said pales in comparison to the number of deaths caused by US/Euro imperialism. This is what propaganda does–it diverts the attention away from those with the most power/influence and onto the natives. This let’s white people in the West go “Oh, look at those crazy natives killing each other again, why are they so savage?” and avoid owning up to their own crimes.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    *bullsh!t they pump, not “bullsh!t people they pump.” Sorry for the long spiel!

  • http://Slamonline.com 1982

    I’m staying out of this one. My only gripe is why does Teddy’s essay post and more than half the time my one sentence quips disappear? LOL SLAM favors China!