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Sunday, August 26th, 2012 at 11:18 am  |  298 responses

Kevin Durant: ‘I Think I’m Established Now. My Time is Now’


Kevin Durant had quite the year—he led the NBA in scoring, made an NBA Finals appearance, won Olympic gold, etc. All of which, you’d think, would have some people saying it’s finally KD’s time to step up and win a couple chips, but from the sounds of it, people are still hitting the forward with the “You’re the future” speech…and Durant isn’t having it. Per the Washington Post: “Back home in Washington for a brief reprieve to promote and premiere for family and friends his feature film debut, ‘Thunderstruck,’ Durant also wanted to let it be known that while he won’t turn 24 until late September, the Oklahoma City all-star forward considers himself too much of an essential element of the NBA’s present to be clumped into discussions about its future. ’I’ve heard a few times, in three or four years, this league is going to be yours. . . . I don’t like that. Because I think I’m established now. My time is now,’ Durant said. ‘I feel as though I’ve proved myself these last five years that I can be one of the top players in the league. I’ve got a long way to go to being the ultimate best, but I think my time is now. And I’m starting to enter my prime.’ Durant explained that he felt he belonged in the discussion of the league’s best since playing in the 2011 All-Star Game in Los Angeles but has mostly kept that sentiment bottled up, because, ‘I don’t like to talk about myself, but I had to get that out there.’ He probably felt a bit more comfortable after a dominant run this summer for the U.S. Men’s National Team, capped off by his 30-point outburst in the closely contested gold medal victory against Spain. Durant led the team — which featured nine all-stars, including two Finals MVPs and regular season MVPs in Kobe Bryantand LeBron James — in scoring at 19.5 points and set a new American men’s record for most points scored in an Olympic tournament with 156.”

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  • onlytheflyest

    not yet KD

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    I think most knowledgeable basketball fans and analysts have KD as the 2nd best player in the NBA.

  • http://www.xvideos.com nbk troll

    Lakers win next two, then lebron and kd go magic and bird on the L.

  • http://Slamonline.com Kap

    When healthy, D12 deserves consideration for #2 spot and occasionally throughout last season Kobe looked like #1 or #2. KD is still a little of just a scorer but more all around than Melo. Chris Paul deserves recognition as well.

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    1. Lebron
    2. Dwight
    3. Durant
    4. Kobe
    5. Wade
    6. CP3
    7. Melo
    8. Griffin
    9. Westbrook
    10. Rondo

  • http://Slamonline.com Kap

    Hard to disagree with Black Mamba on that list

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    Out of curiosity where was the problem?

  • http://Slamonline.com Kap

    D12 is still the most dominant player in the game. Affects the game on both ends like no one else. Plus his defensive ability is ridiculous. He gave Miami fits all by himself the last two seasons.

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    Oh you said hard to disagree. LOL I misread

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    Test

  • http://Slamonline.com Kap

    OKC is a jump shooting team with some interior issues on offense so I don’t understand the notion they are still best in the west. I also don’t understand the chemistry concerns. When has Kobe’s game not meshed with anyone? When has Steve Nash had issues with teammates? People are reaching.

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    Kap is making sense #Onehome

  • http://www.xvideos.com nbk troll

    Kobe is prob one the smartest basketball players in the league, and I’m sure he understands his role on this team is gonna change with d12 and nash on board. This season kobe is gonna be the most dangerous ROLE PLAYER ever. He still gonna get numbers but he is no longer gonna be offensive focus, teams that focus on him will get d12 dunking on your dome.

  • Young Dave

    wow its hard to believe that you dont even have derrick rose in that list griffin hasnt really established himself as a great pf for the league besides his highlights. when he develops he post game then you can put him up there but i would put 6.CP3 7.Derrick Rose 8. Melo

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    His impact will change but he won’t be a role player. He will still be a big part of the team

  • Drig

    ^^
    Fail. Kobe’s still gonna command double teams but it’s gonna be Celtics’ style hopefully. Any two of Kobe,Dwight and Pau are gonna go off per game.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Getting to the Finals is enough for me to say that his time is now. It just may be that LeBron is in his way for a while. He doesn’t have to win championships in order for it to be his time. He can improve and will improve. Whenever LeBron falls off (4 or 5 years or so), KD will be the best player in the league. Plenty of players were at their best while Jordan was winning. I’d say Kobe’s game hasn’t meshed really well with Gasol. People act like Kobe has been willing to let Gasol/Bynum shine. If Kobe was interested in meshing his game, he would have let the offense run through Gasol two seasons ago. They got what they got despite Kobe doing what he does. OKC is the best team in the West until they lose in the Playoffs. It wouldn’t make sense to take that title away from them while they still are Western Conference Champions.

  • Drig

    @Mamba……..CP3 above Wade and Kobe for me. 4-6 are interchangeable but on most nights, CP3 and Kobe are above Wade.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Sorry but Kobe never looked like the a Top-2 player at any point last season.

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    Interesting. You can easily make a case for CP3. But if Kobe and Wade had a bad night then I wouldn’t change the list because of that.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    100% healthy list:
    LeBron
    Durant
    Dwight
    CP3
    Wade
    Kobe
    Rose
    D-Will
    Rondo
    Westbrook

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    I left out rose because we don’t know what he’s like after injury. I cannot agree that Wade is better than Kobe. There is no argument for that. No way is d will better than Rondo or Westbrook.

  • White Mamba

    Black Mamba’s list makes no sense…Wade has become an above average role player, Kobe is good but not top 5, and Howard is pretty overrated, 2nd is absurd.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    There’s a pretty good argument that Wade is better than Kobe. Who’s a more efficient scorer? Wade. I’d say Wade has been the best shooting guard in basketball for the past 3 seasons. Who’s the better defender at this point? Wade. Who is better at involving teammates? Wade. Since 08-09, Wade’s averages: 30, 8 and 5 on 49% shooting; 27, 7 and 5 on 48% shooting; 26, 5 and 6 on 50% shooting; 22, 5 and 5 on 50% shooting. Kobe: 27, 5 and 5 on 47% shooting; 27, 5 and 5 on 46% shooting; 25, 5 and 5 on 45% shooting and 28, 5 and 5 on 43% shooting. As for Deron Williams compared to Rondo and Westbrook…only one of those guys would fit in on any team regardless of their style of play, that’s Deron. He can do it all. He can either be a pass first PG or a score first PG. Westbrook is still learning the position and Rondo still can’t shoot.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Points, assists, rebounds. 3 out of the last 4 seasons, without question, Wade has had a better season than Kobe.

  • http://www.xvideos.com nbk troll

    Lebron
    Dwight
    Rose
    Durant
    Kobe
    Melo!
    Dirk!
    Cp3
    Wade

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    I stand corrected

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    @nbk troll dirk is not in the top ten no way.

  • Drig

    @ByAnyMeans……..Kobe played more games than Wade has the last 2 seasons I think. That has to count for something right??? IMO, CP3-Wade-Kobe is interchangeable only because CP3 doesn’t play at full speed unless it’s the last 3-5 min. of a very close imp. game to conserve his knee. Wade didn’t play enough games last season for me to put him above Kobe. In ’11, agreed.

  • respect

    1.Lebron
    2.Durant
    3.Dwight
    4.Kobe
    5.Rose
    6.CP3
    7.Melo
    8.Rondo
    9.D-Will
    10.Wade

  • Drig

    No way in hell is Melo better than CP3. No way in hell does Dirk even warrant a place in the list. No way in hell is Rose top 5 yet. He won’t be able to play like he used to with his ACL. So even thinking of ranking Rose by assuming he’ll play the same way as he used to after recovering is foolish. Rose won’t be top 10 or top 15 for next season IMO.

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    I still have Kobe ahead of Wade because Kobe is second greatest SG of all time. Wade needed LBJ to get his second chip all kobe really needed was Gasol and Lamar

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    No way in hell is d will or rondo better than Wade

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    We’re not talking all-time here. Today, Wade is better than Kobe. For the last 3 seasons, I’d say Wade has been better than Kobe. Wade won a championship with Shaq on his way over the hill. He was 24. How many times did Gasol and Artest bail out Kobe with the 2 championships he’s won since Shaq left LA? Who rememebers Kobe air balling a 3 point shot against the Suns in the WCF in LA before Artest rebounded it and put it back? Who remembers Kobe shooting horribly in Game 7 in LA against the Celtics the last Finals run and Gasol bailing him out that night? I’d also say that Wade didn’t really need LeBron in the same way that Kobe needed Gasol/Bynum/Odom and the way he now needs Nash and Howard. Wade isn’t playing entirely the way he could play, not because he can’t, but because the best player in the world is on his team and he has taken a step back. The season before LeBron arrived, Wade was arguably the 2nd best player behind LeBron. Kobe isn’t sacrificing his game and we see he’s not as efficient as Wade was by himself before LeBron and Bosh arrived. I think it’s pretty clear who the better player is today. With two All-Star big men in Gasol and Bynum, Kobe wasn’t as good as Wade was playing with Jermaine O’Neal and Michael Beasley.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    We saw how Kobe reacted playing on a team with no other star to speak of. We saw Wade with no other star. Who begged for a trade? Kobe. Who put his head down and fought with the guys he had even avoiding a sweep at the hands of the Celtics with a 40 point game before becoming a free agent? Wade.

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    Nobody can win without good teammates. Ask Lebron. Wade and Shaq weren’t the only good players.
    Remember when Kobe released a buzzer beater with 0.1 seconds left against the kings?
    Remember the shot against the Bucks?
    Remember the buzzer beater against the Heat right in Wade’s face?
    Kobe still won finals MVP those two years

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Kobe winning those 2 championships doesn’t make him better than Wade. Wade still had a better all around season both years and if he had two big men like Gasol and Bynum, he also would have been in contention to win a championship instead of being eliminated in the first or second round of those two playoffs. I hope your argument isn’t that since Kobe won, he was and is a better player. Let’s remember that Kobe didn’t win an MVP award in either of those seasons so there were players better than him individually in the league. I’d say those two players were LeBron and D-Wade.

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    Everybody thought that Kobe was robbed of MVP those two years. Well, I don’t know about everybody but I did at least. Kobe is a far better jumpshooter, scorer and attacker of the basket.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    I also hope that your argument isn’t that Kobe is better because he hit a game winning shot against the Milwaukee Bucks and one in D-Wade’s face in LA (a bank shot that not even he knew would go in evidenced by his comments after the game to Wade himself saying that he just threw it up). We don’t need to go into the statistics on that because we all know that his percentage isn’t as good as some think it is in game winning situations.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Zucotti Manicotti

    Chuck thought 93 was his time. Jazz thought they had their time…
    Durant will have his time when lebron is done with his. Just a law of nature.

  • http://Slamonline.com Kap

    Lol…Kobe and Gasol went to three straight finals. They meshed pretty well IMO lol. Gasol has struggled in postseason the past two seasons. Kobe is still definitely top 5. The guy avg 27, 5, 5. Also early in thr season Kobe looked like one of two best players in season. Remember the 4 straight games of 40 pts and the decent FG %? He’s declined but he’s definitely top 7 at least.

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    That was my response to your argument that Kobe missed some game winners in the playoffs.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Kobe robbed over LeBron those two years? Nah. Look at the roster LeBron played with and the roster Kobe played with. The Cavs had the best record in the league those two years. Kobe wasn’t robbed of anything. At this point, he isn’t half the slasher he used to be. He’s become a better jump shooter mostly because he can’t get to the basket like he used to. Improving his jumpshot and his postgame to the point they are now was a necessity as his knees began to fail him. D-Wade still gets to the basket regularly.

  • http://Slamonline.com Kap

    I think the ranks are negated anyways just bc how stacked the Lakers and Heat are now. Lbj is best player in league but the real question is which will be the better team bc both teams features 3 top 20 players and maybe four in case of the Lakers.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    43% from the field is far from “decent”. Melo shoots that from the field and he is labeled an ineffficient ballhog, kobe does that and it is lauded as decent. When will Kobe fans come to the realization that the guy is no longer a Top-5 player?

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Kobe hitting game winners in the regular season two seasons ago doesn’t mean anything today.
    Also, a big difference to make here: Kobe looked like one of the two best scorers early in the season, not one of the best two players. Major difference. 40 point games don’t make you one of the best two players. We all knew fairly early on that it was LeBron and Durant. Do folks actually watch the Lakers play regularly? Anyone see Kobe still taking shots with two or three guys on him? That’s meshing to you? Has anyone paid attention to Gasol who has made comments the past two seasons about he and Bynum not really touching the ball as much as they should? Again, Gasol does what he does in spite of Kobe’s play, not helped by Kobe’s play. The biggest and best asset the Lakers had during the last 2 championship runs was probably Lamar Odom. He was the glue guy. To those who really believe they mesh well, what has Kobe changed about his game since the season before Gasol got there to accommodate him? Anything? Assist numbers up? Shot attempts down? Anything?

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    I think this upcoming season will definitely determine this argument. Both have three other all stars on their team and they both guard each other. I still think Kobe is better due to what I saw last year.

  • RKJ92

    1.LeBron
    2.Durant
    3.Howard
    4.Chris Paul
    5.Wade
    6.Kobe
    7.Rondo (if you want to argue that I suggest you watch his playoff preformances.)
    8.Rose
    9.Melo
    10.Westbrook

    the list was seriously a no-brainer..

  • http://Slamonline.com Kap

    Kobe is far more an all around player than Melo and he carries his team farther as well. Kobes shot selection and FG% shouldn’t allow you to believe he isn’t top 5.

  • RKJ92

    @JTaylor, Agreed. I have kobe at #6 due to skill set and leadership alone, he’s been on a heavy decline especially in fg% and NOT a team player if he continues to think its all about him.. as it stands right now my top 5 on my list is pretty much a lock in theyre respected placements that no one can argue.

  • RKJ92

    @kap, Kobe is not the player he used to be.. you need to get your head around the fact that he’s fallen off.. hes deff not a top 5 player anymore.

  • http://Slamonline.com Kap

    Lol ok he’s top 6 and not top 5. You guys win lol.

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    He is totally a top five! Are you kidding me!? That’s silly. How the hell is Rondo eighth? Ahead of Melo? And how could you put Rose there after his injury? WTF!?

  • http://Slamonline.com Kap

    I didn’t say he was top 3 and I know he’s declined in athleticism but that’s all. He doesn’t miss many games unlike Wade. And he’s much more of an all around player than Melo or any other SG besides Ginobili and Wade.

  • http://Slamonline.com Kap

    @black mamba. They are just other people’s opinions. Relax buddy. There’s not much drop off or major dispute outside of the #1 spot.

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    I know I know. But how the hell is Chris Paul fourth?

  • RKJ92

    @black mamba, Simply because 1. kobe is not a top 5 period and i will challenge you on ANY arguement you can actually come up with that isnt Stupid (e.g. kobe has rings, kobe scored 81 points) because my top 5 is an automatic lock. 2. rondo is 7th because he carried an OLD celtics team that wasnt supposed to go anywhere, almost PAST the heat! while actually averaging a near triple double in the playoffs like are you kidding me right now?? 3. yes AHEAD of melo becuase he can actually get past the first round and shoot over 43% and 4. YES rose is 8th because I would take him over melo and westbrook as he is a better leader then melo at the same caliber of player AND makes it further in the playoffs with arguably less talent, and more explosive then westbrook and until thats proven otherwise thats where rose will stay on that list

  • http://www.newyorkshockexchange.com Shock Exchange

    KD is the 3rd best player behind ‘bron and a healthy Howard. However, he got exposed last year in the finals as ‘bron bullied him. Just as ‘bron mastered the Shock Exchange’s “Lebron Rules … Keys to stopping Lebron James” two years ago to take his game to the next level, KD needs to (i) get stronger and (ii) improve his rebounding before his “time is now.”

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Rondo led the NBA in assists/steals this past season. Rondo had the most triple doubles ever during one playoff run (4). Rondo definitely deserves to be in the Top 10 and ahead of Melo.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Rondo is ahead of Melo mainly because he impacts the game on both ends of the floor. Melo is a scorer. Nothing else. I’d say you can make a case that Melo isn’t a top 10 player. LeBron, Durant, Howard, Paul, Williams, Kobe, Westbrook, Rose when he’s healthy, Rondo…all of them have a bigger impact on games than Melo does. If Melo is having an off night shooting the ball, what else is he doing? And who can make a good argument against Chris Paul being fourth? Outside of LeBron, Durant and Dwight, who should be ahead of him?

  • http://Slamonline.com Kap

    People forget how horrible Wade looked the last two postseasons. So I would put Kobe ahead of Wade. Don’t care about FG%.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Durant didn’t get exposed. Who didn’t know that LeBron was stronger than Kevin Durant? Honestly. Who expected Durant to handle LeBron in the post? If anything, Kevin needs to become stronger and he will become a better defender. But to say that he got exposed, I disagree. The man averaged 30 points and shot 50% from the field. As for the rebounding…Durant averaged more rebounds than LeBron did this past season.

  • RKJ92

    @black mamba, Chris paul is 4th because out of the afformentioned 7 other players besides the locked top 3 there would be no other player RIGHT NOW anybody would start a franchise with then chris paul, he is the best pg in the league and an absolute ELITE game changer. And I think I could agree people would take him right now over kobe, wade, melo, rose. Paul is disgustingly talented.

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    What the hell?
    1. Rings and 81 points are only small parts. The big one is how he took an team with Kwame Brown and Smush Parker to the playoffs and frankly what I see on TV.
    2. Pierce was contributing, Garnett was contributing and so was Allen and Pietrus. He took them nowhere. He was part of the team.
    3. Melo hasn’t had a training camp to gel with Amare and Chandler.
    4. Rose will suffer a huge drop off after a torn ACL. You can’t have him there

  • http://Slamonline.com Kap

    Switch Kobe for Wade on Miami and are they better? Yes but slightly.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    What does Kobe’s performance in 2006 have to do with his 2012 performance?

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    The big one was what I see on TV

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    @Black Mamba If you don’t think that Rondo was more important than any other Celtic on that team, you must not have watched them play at all. The offense is nothing without Rondo. So yes, Rondo took them. Also, you can’t really predict what Rose will be like when he returns.

  • http://Slamonline.com Kap

    @black mamba. It’s wasted effort. Even when Kobe was at top of his game and #1 Jtaylor refuted it.

  • RKJ92

    Do you see how people agree with my points mamba? its because they’re the truth. I’m not biast in my opinions and theyre extremely fair.

    as for melo being in the top 10 @ByAnyMeansNecessary I WOULD have put Deron in there except that though he meshes well he can have off nights just like melo but the thing is in games when both players are ON it comes down to whos scarier? a hot shooting melo or a hot shooting deron and though he makes assists melo has also established himself as a bigtime game changer and decent defender (when he puts the effort in) in order to close out games and thats why I have him in the top 10.

    but like I had previously mentioned to ME it could really go either way I just believe melo makes sence in the top 10.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    I doubt it. MIA’s defense is based on Wade/LeBron’s ability to cover ground on the defensive end and Kobe at this point in his career, is no longer a good enough defender or athlete to excel playing in such a defensive scheme.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    To think that Pietrus was as important as Rondo was is insane. Add on the fact that Ray Allen had an off season really. Melo has had time to gel with Amar’e and there is no need for him to learn how to gel with Chandler because he’s not an offensive player unless he’s getting put backs or dunks in the pick and roll. It’s not like they’re throwing Tyson the ball in the post. But Melo has had a season and a half to learn how to play with STAT.

  • RKJ92

    @blackmamba, do you see how your letting kobes past accomplishments cloud your judgement on this list.. it doesnt matter what he has done back then.. thats EXACTLY what I meant by a stupid retort.. what he did then doesnt change where he is on that list now.. its his efforts of late and they havent been good enough to justify a top 5 position and its a shame you cannot see that but Jtaylor knows EXACTLY what im talking about.

  • http://www.newyorkshockexchange.com Shock Exchange

    In no way is the Shock Exchange suggesting that Durant needs to be stronger than ‘bron in the post. But there we key possessions late in the finals when ‘bron “‘lil manned” Durant and made him a far less than 50% FG shooter. He needs to get far stronger because other teams are going to try to manhandle him also.

  • http://www.xvideos.com nbk troll

    Dirk get slept on sooooo hard cause he ain’t flashy and he don’t dunk on fools. But he is definitely top 10. Little guards like westbrook cp3 and rondo are easier for a defense to handle than a 7 footer busting deep j’s…. Dude just smashed KING JAMES and them boys, then he lost some good defensive players and had another tall sharpshooter do the same thing to him. Bottom line if you don’t recognize Dirk as top ten player, you don’t understand basketball and you listen to talking heads too much and prob think rondo is top ten too.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    @RKJ92 Deron doesn’t have to score 20 to be the most important player on the floor. When has Melo scored less than 20 and had people say he was the best player on the floor? It’s really not about who’s scarier. It’s about who is more consistent and which player can change a game night in and night out in more than one area.
    @Kap To say that you don’t care about FG% is crazy. FG% is probably the most telling stat when you’re talking about shooting guards like Wade and Kobe. Shooting guards primary job is to shoot the ball so if one guy shoots and scores with more efficiency than the other guy, I think that’s pretty important. Wade is two to three inches shorter than Kobe and has consistently had a better FG%. And if we’re talking postseason performance, Kobe hasn’t exactly been spectacular the past two postseasons himself. Wade’s performance this past postseason wasn’t what we’ve seen from him before primarily because LeBron played out of his mind. Wade simply did what he was supposed to do with a bum knee. Last year in the postseason, he and LeBron were making sure they didn’t step on each other’s toes…and still they made it to the Finals.

  • RKJ92

    COSIGN ByAnyMeansNecessary

  • http://www.xvideos.com nbk troll

    I got rose over kd on my list but is a tie really. I bet lebron would say my list is more legit than everyone else.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Durant has been in the league for 5 years. He’s led the league in scoring 3 seasons in a row. If teams were going to try to “manhandle” him and if that was going to stop him or contain him, they would have done it by now. Who is physically stronger than World Peace at the wing position? Did he not guard Durant in the 2nd round? How successful was he? Let’s take a look at the guys who guarded Durant this past postseason. Shawn Marion, World Peace, Kawhi Leonard, Shane Battier, LeBron James. Not a sad group of defenders. All stronger than Durant physically. None had much of an effect on him to the point where he couldn’t do what he does. What matters most is his statline at the end of the series and with Shane Battier and LeBron James guarding him, he averaged 30 on 50% shooting.

  • RKJ92

    @ByAnyMeansNecessary, man I totally get what your saying I really do, but if im starting a franchise i’d want melo over deron at this point in theyre careers because derons stats from over the past 2 years just dont cut it for me.. id need to see more from him this year in order to change my opinion although i highly respect yours!

  • rkirby

    Kobe is a better shooting guard than Wade. Wade’s game is predicated purely on athleticism over skill, which is why Wade got exposed in the last few postseasons. At this point in his career, for Wade to not have a consistent jump shot and sloppy footwork is inexcusable and is part of the reason Miami took so long to figure out a winning formula. Also, Wade got burned by Westbrook throughout the finals. Kobe routinely locks Westbrook up. Wade is grossly overrated on defense. Is he a better help defender? Probably. But man-to-man? Absolutely not

  • http://www.newyorkshockexchange.com Shock Exchange

    Late in that finals, ‘bron bodied dude on several possessions and destroyed his will to compete. Yes, he has been in the league 5 yrs and led the L in scoring for 3, and the sky is blue … all facts. If he doesn’t get stronger and improve his rebounding then his time won’t be now … that’s another fact.

  • http://Slamonline.com Kap

    Wade was horrible. He didn’t take a backseat, he was just horrible. We know why Kobe has never had a better FG% and the reason isn’t bc Wade is better. Wade was shooting 30 something percent during playoffs at what point.

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    You dudes aren’t making sense. You guys brought up Wade’s past accomplishments. So that means its part of the discussion. To say that as of right now Wade is better than Kobe or that he ever was in the past four years is ludicrous! You can’t win chips without solid teammates.
    Jordan had Pippen and rodman
    Magic had kareem and worthy
    Bird had parish and mchale
    Wilt had Jerry west
    Erving has Moses Malone
    Kobe had Gasol and odom
    Of all those greats who had the least help? There’s more examples I could give

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    Also, cosign everything Kap has posted. Dude knows what he’s talking about

  • RKJ92

    I didn’t bring up ISH about wades past accomplishments.. I just told you what it is RIGHT NOW. and wade IS the better player period.
    and as for those teamates you were listing I love how you got everything rightt till you came down to “BLACK MAMBA” and forget to list bynum the SECOND best center in the league behind dwight howard along with gasol and odom.. Just thought id clarify your downplay of talent level around kobe, seeing as you fanboys never want to admit the truth surrounding your idol which as a basketball fan disgusts me FYI.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    @RKJ92 Have you seen the teammates Deron’s played with since he’s been in NJ/Brooklyn? Off the top of your head, can you name the starting 5 of the team by the end of the ’10-’11 season or this past season?
    @Shock Exchange Yes. Scoring 30 a night in the NBA Finals on the biggest stage against the only man who can truly say he’s better than KD was him showing how much he really didn’t want to compete. When you say he needs to improve his rebounding, you must mean he should average 9 or 10 a game because he averaged 8 this past season (more than LeBron who no one says should rebound more). Him needing to rebound more isn’t a fact, it’s your opinion. Huge difference there.
    @Kap I see now you didn’t watch. I understand why you’re saying what you’re saying now. Cool. The reason Kobe has a poor FG% is because he has poor shot selection at times and doesn’t pass the ball enough. Period. If Wade was horrible to you, Kobe must have been horrific. Even in that scenario, Wade is still better since horrible is a notch above horrific.

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    You didn’t bring it up somebody else did and I forgot Bynum that’s my bad. You can’t honestly think that is more help than the others I listed?

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    Are you saying that if you put wade on last years Lakers team and Kobe on the Heat then Lakers would do better and Heat would do worse? Cause it sounds like it.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    This isn’t about teams with Wade and Kobe. Really no need to bring up the argument about no one winning by themselves. Individually, who has played better the past four seasons? Look up the stats. It’s Wade. This past season Kobe averaged 28 which is great. But if you score 28 a night shooting 43% and another guy has spent 3 of the past 4 seasons scoring 26 plus a game shooting almost 50%, he’s just a better player. If there’s anyone not making sense, it’s Kap and Black Mamba who is incapable of being unbiased when it comes to Kobe based on his name. I think the wildest comment that I’ve read thus far is the lack of importance of FG% for a shooting guard lol. Shooting guards shoot. How can you disregard how well a player shoots the ball when they are a shooting guard? How does that make any sense?

  • RKJ92

    UMMM YES!? that would be the DUMBEST move! Wade > Kobe 100% as of today YEAH THATS EXACTLY WHAT IM SAYING

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Put Wade on last year’s Lakers team with Gasol, Bynum and Odom (who Wade has played with), and the Lakers get past the Mavericks. Wade at 100% playing as the leading dog would have had that Lakers team get past Dallas and OKC. The Lakers would have been in the Finals. Wade is more willing to share the ball. A better playmaker than Kobe is. Are people really watching these guys play or watching YouTube highlights? This shouldn’t be all that hard.

  • http://Slamonline.com Kap

    I mean the gap if there is one right now between Wade and Kobe is marginal. They honestly take turns along with Ginobili on any given night on who is best SG. It’s a moot point. You are saying its definitive and I’m only saying its not a clear answer who is better but I would take Kobe bc he doesn’t miss games and he has been more consistent the last two seasons especially in the playoffs. Wade was a no show in several series the last two playoffs. That’s one point that’s a fact. And Bynum only recently became the 2nd best center. He wasnt even a top 5 center during the Lakers two title runs. Lol I watch all the games BTW. Yes I’m a Kobe fan but I’m realistic and know he’s decline but he’s not some above average role player, he’s still great and a borderline top 5 player and on some nights easily top 5 and arguably top 3. He’s still a scoring machine. Yes he’s a gunner who takes bad shots but it’s seemed to work more than fail according to his career and accomplishments. Wade would of been coming off the bench for Team USA not Kobe and we saw the Kobe we all know towards the end of the Olympics. Also don’t trust the fragile Wade to hold up.

  • RKJ92

    COSIGN @ByAnyMeansNecessary!!

  • RKJ92

    @ByAnyMeansNecessary And to add to your older comment, derons old NJ team was as follows.. pg. deron, sg. anthony morrow, sf.gerald wallace, pf. kris humphris, center. brook lopez

  • http://Slamonline.com Kap

    I’ll take the 34 yr old guy over the 31 yr old guy who can’t stay healthy and coming off knee surgery. And Wade struggled mightily in the postseason the year LA was mutilated by Dallas. A series Gasol and Odom didnt show up to.

  • http://www.xvideos.com nbk troll

    ^^ sounds kinda dumb to say wade + bynum and pau would beat macs when wade + LEBRON and bosh couldn’t. Wade is not better than kobe is right now. Not to say wade isn’t a beast, but not better than mamba… If anything its a tie.

  • RKJ92

    sorry i meant marshon brooks not anthony morrow :S

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    Biased? There’s a difference between being biased and being observant. Seriously. You think Wade could get past that Mavs team. The team he couldn’t get past with LEBRON JAMES AND CHRIS BOSH as his teammates. You think he could get past them with Odom, Gasol and Bynum with him. SMH. How is my teammate argument useless? You guys are saying that Kobe can only win with good teammates and I just proved out of those hall of famers and legends he won with the least help.

  • RKJ92

    not to mention gerald green as a 6th man thats not too bad compaired to some teams other players have to suffer through the season with :/

  • RKJ92

    plz tell me you didnt just say ginobli LOL!! can I pour acid on my eyes now or later?? :D

  • http://www.slamonline.com nbk

    I’m not getting into this discussion, but Wade was hurt in the playoffs. He’s been better than Kobe for the last couple years when healthy. Durant or Dwight are the second best player in the league.
    .
    .LeBron
    .Durant
    .Dwight
    .Paul
    .Wade
    .Bryant
    . – Assuming everyone is healthy.

  • http://www.libertyballers.com/2012/2/29/2832299/lebron-james-kobe-bryant-dwyane-wade-clutch-nba-playoffs-4th-quarter danpowers

    look out for melo y’all. just got that funny feeling that this year will be his year

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    What is wrong with Ginobili? He’s been a great SG for a decade now. Why is it hard to believe he’s in the discussion.
    @nbk solid list outside of Wade over Bryant. Which I’m debating with these clowns as we speak

  • RKJ92

    @blackmamba, you are so biased in your opinion its making you look like a complete moron.. wade would have EASILY and I mean EASILYYYYY taken care of business with the team kobe had without question!! he wouldnt have tried forcefully to be the man and appropriately fed gasol and bynum to get better offensive poss instead of jacking up shots and fadeaways.. I mean there is really no arguement for kobe mamba.. dude has the BEST of talent around him and still refuses to share play around they’re obvious dominant abilities -.-

  • RKJ92

    @NBK, at the start of this arguement that is the EXACT top 6 I posted yet Blackmamba, and kap continue to think that im completely wrong having paul at 4, and kobe at 6 LOL

  • RKJ92

    And @blackmamba ever heard of age/decline? why are you defending players on theyre name and not how good they are now? like use ur brain… your saying you would rather have a 36yr old ginobli over a 20 something year old james harden?? :S

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    I reiterate that if he was on that team it would have been the same result. If he can’t get past that Mav team with Lebron and Bosh then he can’t get past it with Gasol Odom and Bynum. There is a huge talent drop off. And again, there’s a difference between being biased and being observant.

  • http://slamonline.com Mars

    Is he raw? Yes, KD is nice. Is he the best. Nope. LeBron. Kobe. Melo. Too Soon? Yes.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    @RKJ92 Brook Lopez barely played the past two seasons. If he had played most of those games and the Nets didn’t make the playoffs, I’d say maybe he would be borderline top 10. But since he didn’t have all of the pieces he should have had, I have to go by what I saw the last time he had a full squad.
    @Kap This is hilarious. First of all, Wade has yet to turn 31. Second of all, if you think Kobe shooting below 45% and scoring 28 points a night is great and somehow proves he’s better than Wade, I disagree. Give me the guy who is still capable of 27 a night on 49% shooting over Kobe any day. And here we go with the excuses for Kobe. Odom and Gasol didn’t show up. Kobe has been consistently mediocre at best the past two postseasons. So yes, he’s been consistent. There isn’t a night where Kobe is a top 3 player. It’s LeBron, Durant and Howard. Kobe will look like the best scorer a lot of nights. But he won’t affect a game ike LeBron, Durant or Howard anymore on a night to night basis. Just won’t happen. The comment about Wade coming off the bench for Team USA is completely irrelevant. If you’re talking about this summer’s team, it was Kobe’s last ride. Wade would have probably felt better if Kobe started. And exactly what does Team USA have to do with the NBA season? Nothing. Wade would come off the bench and score with efficiency the same way he did in 08. Kobe didn’t look all that great during the Olympics too, by the way. Melo played better. LeBron played better. Durant played better.
    @Black Mamba Observant is the last thing you’ve been going by what you’ve been saying. You missed a big part of what I said. Dwyane Wade playing as the best player on the Lakers would have taken that team further than Kobe did. He and LeBron weren’t sure who was going to take the lead in the 10-11 postseason. This season, he told LeBron he should take over. He took a step back. He was great as a sidekick, not because he couldn’t be the number one guy, but because he was smart enough to let LeBron be that guy. Dwyane has never been a guy who could shoot his team into a game or shoot them out of it. That’s what Kobe does routinely. Instead of comparing Kobe to past players and their championship teams, the right thing to do would be to compare him to players around the league who have won championships recently and the help they have had.

  • http://www.libertyballers.com/2012/2/29/2832299/lebron-james-kobe-bryant-dwyane-wade-clutch-nba-playoffs-4th-quarter danpowers

    durant has got all the tools to become the best scorer the league has ever seen (not the best overall player, no contest to jordan and also no contest for lebron now). if durant wanted he could break every scoring record except the 100 point game by wilt. the only thing that keeps him from doing that is his humble personality and that he is not “selfish” enough. another aspect is westbrook still taking many shots and sometimes lacking court vision. i wonder how many points durant would already average if he was playing next to a pass first point guard.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    @Black Mamba How hard is it for you to understand that LeBron and Wade were not playing like they were capable of playing against the Mavs? The line between the best and 2nd best player was blurred. Add on the fact that LeBron lost confidence in his shot. This year’s Heat team would have beaten that Mavs team probably 4-2 with everyone’s role clearly defined.

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    There’s a difference between being stepping back and just not showing up. I can’t think of a postseason game last season where Wade left a lasting imprint. Outside of game four against Indiana. I remember him missing a wide open game winner against the Celtics. A shot Kobe would’ve buried. He rode Lebron in 2011 playoffs as well. And when Lebron didn’t show up in the 2011 finals, what happened? They got killed

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Kobe’s only response to trouble in a game is shooting. That’s what he reverts to now. If his shot is off, game over. Teammates don’t even have a shot to try to have an impact on the game. Wade would have involved Gasol, Bynum and Odom more.

  • http://www.slamonline.com nbk

    The Lakers got swept by that Mavs team. A Llers team with a roster that won a title the year before. It’s safe to say wade would have won atleast a game with that Lakers roster. Look at his Miami team against Boston a year before if you don’t believe me.

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    You can’t score if you don’t shoot! And if they never get the ball then how did they become all stars? Honestly

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    @Black Mamba Right, because Kobe has hit game winning shots the past two postseasons. Wait….

  • RKJ92

    cosign NBK — @blackmamba dont you realize its you against like 4 other people who all share the exact same opinion about your clouded riding judgment of kobe like seriously dude.. wake the fxck up -.-

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    Wade hasn’t either. Wade hasn’t shown up the past two postseasons. Heat get nowhere without Lebron or Bosh.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Kobe has gotten eliminated in the 2nd round the past two seasons. Won one game against OKC this past postseason. Swept by the Mavs in ’10-’11. People are talking about Kobe like this is 2005-2006. At some point, everyone gets replaced. Wade replaced him seasons ago.

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    First of all it’s me and Kap debating with you two clowns.
    Second is once again my judgement is not clouded! You know how many Kobe fans think he’s the GOAT let alone the best current SG (seed). I’m being realistic.

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    Wade replaced him? Did you not watch this past season? Kobe had the scoring title for essentially the entire year but lost it on the last day. Wade has been along for the ride the Past two seasons.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    @Black Mamba You acknowledged yourself that Wade had a huge game against Indiana this past postseason and in the next breath, you say he didn’t show up. Which is it? 25 points, 7 assists and 4 rebounds in the ’10-’11 postseason on 49% shooting. Yep, that’s not showing up. This past season, taking a sidekick role (which he did take, it wasn’t him not showing up as you phrased it) he averaged what a great 2nd guy on a team should get. 23 points, 5 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals, 46% from the field. So even in that 2nd guy role, he still had numbers that are above what almost every other 2nd best player on a team in the league averages. Which shows that he’s still capable of being the number one guy if he needs to.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    @Black Mamba lol Again. All you can talk about is scoring. Scoring alone doesn’t do it. You’re running out of arguments to make. Kobe shot 43%. Not a good percentage for a 6’6 200 pound shooting guard. While D-Wade, a 6’4 shooting guard shot 50%.

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    He rode Lebron the entire time. Stats don’t tell the whole story. And one good playoff game dosent mean he had a good playoff run. And 43 and 50 look like very close percentages to me. And if your looking for stats then look at Kobe in the OKC series. He had two 40 point games if I remember correctly. Where Bynum and Gasol did $hit.

  • http://www.slamonline.com nbk

    Uhm, Look what Wade did against Dallas in the playoffs in 2011 – and compare it to Kobe against Dallas in the playoffs in 2011. Then stop bringing up 2012, Wade was hurt, which is well documented and resulted in surgery right after the playoffs. Your argument sounds dumb when you keep harboring on an irrelevant point. Look at their seasons over the lay 3 years, Wade has been better in every way but total points. Which is probably judging by the evidence, a consequence of shots attempted.
    .
    Wade is better for two main reasons, he plays better overall defense, specifically as a help defender. And he attacks the rim rather than settle for jumpers like Bryant. Which is a factor of age.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    @Black Mamba So you didn’t watch basketball the past two seasons? That’s definitely what it sounds like. And 43% is clearly closer to 40% than 50%. For a 6’6 shooting guard? Wow lol.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Best players based on last season:
    LeBron
    Durant
    Dwight
    Paul
    Kobe
    Westbrook
    Deron
    Rose
    Wade
    Rondo
    ——–
    Projection of best players next year
    LeBron (obvious)
    Dwight (best defensive force, good point guard)
    Durant (still needs to pass better)
    Paul (should only progress with new team)
    Deron (finally have chance to pass to good teammates)
    Westbrook (keeps becoming a better scorer)
    Melo (chemistry)
    Rondo (will be asked to score more)
    Wade (coming off surgery)
    Josh (unquestioned star of the team)
    ….and no, Kobe is not in my top 10 projected next year. My guess for him is 23-4-3 on 42% shooting.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    @Caboose I think Westbrook is fine with scoring. His jumpshot can still improve. But the thing he needs to work on the most is his decision making, just becoming more comfortable with the PG position.

  • http://www.slamonline.com nbk

    I got to say I’m intrigued by Josh Smith this season as well. Idk if he’ll make that sorta leap but he could have a great year.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    Who cares, he had a chance to talk big and walk big, but he played with no fire in the NBA Finals. That’s whats wrong with this guy, he is afraid to be cocky and Westbrook is the true leader of OKC. KD needs some fire and he needs to just play ball.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    @Caboose, no Kobe, yall must of forgot. Kobe will be in running for MVP and everyone will say we knew that. People stated before his two rings his career was over, not they are back. Just wait. If Gasol and Bynum played bigger, Lakers play Heat in Finals.
    ________________________________________________________________________
    Also people need to stop acting like Wade is a force now, he is not. Wade is Joe Johnson now that slashes to the rim. Check his stats and Joe’s. Also Wade legacy has taken a hit and I feel bad for him. He allowed himself to sacrifice his game for another player to step up. ALot of NBA players would never do that. Wade is streaky and I read someone stated last two years, been better than Kobe.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    Wade used to be a force, now he is nothing but a pawn on a chess board who keeps trying to set up the so called King to get all the credit, not realizing until his career is over he checkmated himself out of his legacy.

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    Finally, somebody making sense. Not a top ten player? Seriously

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    @The Seed Completely idiotic to say that Wade is not a force. That would mean he’s just a role player. Anyone with eyes and a little amount of knowledge about the game can see that he’s not a role player. He still is a force and if he wasn’t a force, neither LeBron nor Bosh would have joined him in Miami. Role players don’t average 23 points a game which is what he averaged this past postseason. People need to deal with the fact that Kobe is on his way downward. When the efficiency starts to go, which it has, it is the beginning of the end. Dwyane Wade is not Joe Johnson. He hasn’t “checkmated” himself out of anything. He won a championship as the best player on a team, and another as the 2nd best player. Exactly what is wrong with that? He’s a Hall of Famer today. More championships as the 2nd best player will only continue to build on his legacy.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    It’s crazy that Wade can be criticized for being selfless in order to win. For all of the Kobe apologists like Black Mamba, your guy Kobe could learn a thing or two from Wade about letting star teammates play bigger roles when it’s for the betterment of the team. Years ago, the offense should have been running through the best frontline in basketball in Gasol and Bynum. And Wade sacrificed for LeBron James, the best player in the world, not just any player.

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    You don’t make sense. Kobe could learn something from Wade? Honestly.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Slick Ric

    1. LBJ
    2. Dwight
    3. Durant
    4. Dwade
    5. Kobe
    6. Rose
    7. Cp3
    8. Deron
    9. Rondo
    10. Melo

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Kobe has put even more miles on his body than he needed to. Had the offense been running through Gasol and Bynum, Kobe would have been fresher for the end of games which would have suited him and the team well. I remember watching a documentary on the Lakers while Phil Jackson was still there. In a timeout, Phil was telling the guys that Kobe needed help scoring the ball. Kobe interrupted and said “No, I don’t.” That’s all that needs to be said. His confidence helps him at times and hurts him and the team at times.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    @Black Mamba Almost nothing you’ve said has made any sense. And The Seed can’t help you.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    @ByAnyMeansNecessary
    Kobe got two rings with Bynum averaging less than 10pts and 10rebs per game and Gasol playing so so in some games and better in some games. If Bynum and Gasol play better Kobe has 6 rings and playing in NBA Finals last year. Man if you think wade is all that, you are messed up. Wade is nothing but a Joe Johnson now, he gets 20pts a game. Wade averaged 21pts last year.

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    That last comment proved that the seed can help me.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    If you’ve paid attention the past few years, you should have heard plenty of analysts talk about Kobe’s reluctance to let Gasol and Bynum carry more of the load especially with those knees of his and all the minutes and games he’s played. None of this is new. To all of you who think that Kobe will magically change his game now that he has Howard and Nash, I would just say let’s wait and see. A man plays one way for 17 years…will change in one season? We’ll see. But today, as we speak, Dwyane Wade when fully healthy is just a better player. The stats show it. Simply watching the games and seeing how much work Kobe has to do to get some of his shots off tells the story. Wade needs less dribbles to do what he does. Even before LeBron and Bosh arrived, how often did you see Wade dribbling the clock away before shooting while his teammates stood and watched?

  • RKJ92

    I Reiterate.. the top 10 list is

    1.LeBron
    2.Durant
    3.Howard
    4.Chris Paul
    5.Wade
    6.Kobe
    7.Rondo (if you want to argue that I suggest you watch his playoff preformances.)
    8.Rose
    9.Melo
    10.Westbrook
    - the list was seriously a no-brainer..

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    Byanymeansnecessary since when does somebody dribbling the ball more mean he’s worse. That’s just nonsensical.

  • RKJ92

    And seed that was ME who said wade has been better then Kobe the last 2 years, because maybe its true!? -.- dude fell off just accept it and move on quietly…

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Again, it’s not Kobe’s fault, right? Anyone but Kobe. Mind you, if Kendrick Perkins had been playing in that Game 7 in LA, the Celtics would have two championships in the Big 3 era and Kobe would only have 1 since Shaq left. A simple Google search could show you that Wade averaged 22, 5 and 5 on 50% shooting this past season. Joe Johnson averaged 19, 4 and 4 on 45% shooting this past season. Yep, those look like identical statlines to me. This is too easy. Neither one of you (Black Mamba, The Seed) have any good arguments up until this point.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    @Black Mamba Dribbling the ball more proves that it’s becoming harder and tougher for Kobe to score. The 43% FG percentage is also a huge indication of that fact. That’s common sense.

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    Are you kidding me with that Perkins crap? I watched that game and that was Gasol dominating the glass. Perkins. Honestly

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Gasol dominated the glass because the Celtics had no center in the game lol. Honestly.

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    The celtics used KG who filled in at center this year and was dominant

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    The Celtics defense was anchored by Garnett and Perkins all season. The major part of their great defense was Garnett and Perkins. Everyone talked about it all season and after the Finals. Without Perkins, the defense and rebounding suffered in Game 7. Plenty of folks have acknowledged the fact that with Perkins and that starting 5 in tact, that Celtics team never lost a playoff series. The only series they lost was when Garnett was hurt in 09 and the Magic beat them and the next season without Perkins in that Game 7 when the Lakers beat them. But I can see how a person who’s a blind loyalist to Kobe would fail to see it. Anything to make sure your guy looks great regardless of the facts that are plainly present. Pretty pointless on your part to talk about KG playing center this year when the season that’s being discussed is two seasons ago. What this past year has to do with two years ago, I don’t know. You’ll have to explain the relevancy of that to me.

  • http://www.newyorkshockexchange.com Shock Exchange

    Whatever success the Lakers have had recently has been “in spite of” Horry Jr, not because of him. That’s why the streets is saying that the Lakers’ biggest hurdle is the “Horry Jr Differential,” – the talent required to overcome Horry Jr’s poor shot selection, poor decision-making and overall selfishness.

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    You brought up the Perkins thing not me. The seed is the only guy makin sense!

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    Shut up Shock Exchange. I’m having enough trouble with these clowns I don’t have time for your Horry Jr crap at the same ___ time.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    @Black Mamba Both you and The Seed haven’t made any sense. I brought up the Perkins factor because it’s real. With Perkins playing, chances are great that the Celtics would have won. Best defense in basketball that season misses one of its anchors and folks think it was no big deal.

  • http://www.newyorkshockexchange.com Shock Exchange

    Black Garden Snake, The Shock Exchange is only repeating what the streets is saying … Don’t shoot the messenger.

  • RKJ92

    I can’t believe I’m gonna say this but.. cosign the shock exchange :-|

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    I dont care. Kobe’s team last year was significantly worse than Wade’s. Saying wade is better is just dumb. But saying for the past four years that he’s been better is insane.

  • npa

    OKC will be beating LA on the playoffs

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Black Mamba and Seed are why I hate Kobe talk. Honest question, for both of you, what stats do you realiistically see Kobe putting up next year. If you say 29-5-6 on 49% shooting, I utterly give up.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Black Mamba now sounds like a 12 year old. “I don’t care”. “Saying Wade is better is just dumb”. The equivalent to taking your ball and going home lol

  • Justin05

    Top 10 list with 5 minutes left in the game:

    1. L. James
    2. K. Bryant
    3. K. Durant
    4. C. Paul
    5. D. Wade
    6. C. Anthony
    7. D. Howard
    8. D. Williams
    9. R. Westbrook
    10. P. Pierce

    And the last 5 minutes are all that matters if you are close to your opponent. The teams w/ 2 guys on this list will be in contention for a Championship next year. 1 and 2 are a hint at the Finals and I always root for the underdog

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    I see 20 and five. Maybe 18 and five.

  • Justin05

    I think Kobe will avg. 21-4-5 on 47%. Rbs and Asts are irrelevant. His scoring will go down considerably but I think his fg percent will actually rise because of his new role. The black mamba! Now he’ll strike you when you are least expecting it!

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Exactly, so why would 20 and 5 put him in the top 10 in the league? That’s Kevin Martin level. My little list was about where I projected Kobe: outside the top 10. And you just agreed! So nice one there.

  • http://www.slamonline.com nbk

    Wade is and has been better than Kobe. Someone with the name Black Manba saying its dumb means less than nothing.

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    An average does not mean he gets 20 every night. That could be 24 points or 26 occasionally.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    …..That may be the dumbest thing I’ve ever read on Slam.

  • Justin05

    Let’s just end this debate right here. In a game of 1 on 1 Kobe will beat Wade 4/5 times. No question.

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    Kobe is top ten! Ask anybody from ESPN. This is exhausting

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba
  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    No way in the world Carmelo Anthony is above Dwight Howard. Or Kobe at 2 at this point in his career. Or Paul Pierce in a top 10. Someone needs to mention Kevin Love, the best PF in basketball. I forgot about him myself. I haven’t seen him on anyone’s list. Given everyone is fully healthy:
    1. LeBron (most dominant player, great defender, great passer, consistent jumpshot, improving postgame, too strong and fast for everyone)
    2. Durant (best scorer, improving rebounder, needs to improve defense and passing ability)
    3. Dwight (shot blocker, game changer on defense, improving postgame, playing now with a great PG)
    4. CP3 (best PG in basketball, capable of playing on any team in any system, good shooter, heart of an assassin, best player at or under 6’0 since AI)
    5. Wade (great scorer, good defender, above average playmaker)
    6. Deron Williams (same as Chris Paul except bigger/stronger, maybe a better shooter)
    7. D-Rose (explosive, finishes better than any guard in basketball, improving jumpshot, above average vision, good passer)
    8. Rondo (best vision/passing ability in basketball, rebounds better than any guard, good defender, needs to improve jumpshot)
    9. Westbrook (as explosive as D-Rose but doesn’t finish at the basketball as well as Rose does, needs to improve decision-making, only been playing PG for 4 seasons, potential to be a great defender)
    10. Kevin Love (best PF in basketball, great shooter, best rebounder in basketball)
    The next level of guys include Blake Griffin, Carmelo Anthony, Dirk Nowitzki, Chris Bosh, Amar’e Stoudemire and Pau Gasol. Guys who have one superstar quality, but don’t do multiple things on a superstar level. All that Blake needs to do is develop a better offensive skillset. Melo only scores consistently, doesn’t do anything else. Dirk is the same way. Bosh is tricky because he’s a 20 and 10 guy playing on a team that doesn’t require him to do that. Gasol is the same although if he had more opportunities he’d be a 20/10 guy. STAT doesn’t rebound the way he should.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    “An average does not mean he gets 20 every night”….After you said you think he’ll average 20 and 5? 18 and 5? 24 or 26 points occasionally? Yet he’s better than D-Wade. So you think D-Wade will only average 17 and 4 this upcoming season? Wow….As for the idea that rebounds and assists don’t matter, they actually do matter. A lot. That’s why those of you arguing for Kobe so much sound ridiculous. The game is more than just scoring. The idea that if Kobe averages more points than Wade that makes him a better player? False.

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    I’m done. Kevin Love and Rajon Rondo better than Kobe indicates that I’ve wasted my time today.

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    Test test

  • Justin05

    Lol kobe haters on here. Just tune in come June everybody

  • http://Slamonline.com Black Mamba

    I’m done. The notion that Kevin Love and Rajon Rondo are in the top ten but Kobe isn’t indicates I’ve wasted my time here.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Basketball realists on here. Come June, if the Lakers are in the Finals, chances are great that it won’t be because Kobe is scoring 27 a night and shooting a good FG percentage. It will be because he’s doing what he should’ve been doing years ago. Allowing his star teammates to do what they do so that he can be fresh for the playoffs. And when the playoffs arrive, he won’t be shooting with multiple defenders on him. Nash will be running the team, getting everyone the ball, not just number 24. Pick and roll with Dwight and Pau. Kobe will be getting 23 or 24 a night shooting less shots.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Why do Kobe fans like the ppg stat so much? It’s the only thing Kobe is still elite at.

  • http://Slamonline.com Kap

    Two people on both sides of an extreme cant call the other side ridiculous and uninformed. Lol. One side hates the guy and the other loves the guy. Kobe is still an elite player period. He’s definitely top 10 and arguably top 5. His method of play has worked bc he’s more accomplished than any other player.

  • CubicleWorker

    Not sure how this argument is going on. Kobe > Wade. Between LeBron and Wade usually 2/3 nights one of them doesn’t show up. Wade was playing terribly throughout the playoffs… talking 8 point games. Kobe has a lot more of a burden and a lot bigger load to carry than Wade. That part is undisputable. If Kobe takes a night off the Lakers lose. As good as Bynum could be he’s volatile and immature. Gasol was soft for most of the last two playoffs. Black Mamba is very right on his list of legends and championships. Kobe went to the finals three other times with no other hall of famers. Heat won with two (and CB1 would also be a HOF’er if heat win not one, not two, not three, not….)

  • CubicleWorker

    Also co-sign whoever said Dirk is under-rated. He absolutely DESTROYED the league in the 2011 playoffs. For people who didn’t watch his run was absolutely epic, inspiring and jaw dropping. Cuban gutted the team last year. Don’t count him out.

  • Rainman

    *cp3 is top 4, def top 5. If he can lead the clippers to a 55+ win season and the 3rd seed or higher out west, he may just sneak up with that mvp award. He’s that good.

    * Kobe is better than wade. Period. The playoffs proved that. Wade isn’t who he once was, kobe still kobe.

    Just some thoughts based off of the comments so far.

  • http://www.slamonline.com nbk

    Wade was hurt in the playoffs. All of you that keep using that as your reasoning behind your argument sous ignorant. You can’t devalue a players overall abilities because they were hurt. Especially those of you idiots who are devaluing Wade while saying Rose is still in the mix. That’s called hypocrisy.

  • http://Slamonline.com Kap

    He wasn’t hurt the playoffs prior to this one NBK. You know he was a no show against Chicago.

  • aim

    List
    Kobe
    Kobe
    Kobe
    Kobe
    Kobe
    Lebron
    Kobe
    Rondo
    Kobe
    Dwight

  • http://Slamonline.com Kap

    We need to take over these threads LA fans like the Miami folk did the last two seasons.

  • Rainman

    Also shout out to kap f*for giving ginobili the credit he deserves. Outside of kobe-wade, he’s been a top 3 SG.
    @rkj92: don’t put harden in that discussion ginobili doesn’t disappear in the playoffs. Ever. Not even with a broke forearm(on his shooting hand!!) Remember when he dropped 20 points a game with that injury on the grizz? Ya they lost. Cuz the spurs weren’t healthy, to no fault of ginobili’s cuz tim’s injury is what killed em.anyways, ginobili is a BEAST.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Redd

    I’d put JJ over Ginobilli heck eventually Brooks too. Ginobilli is nice and I’d take him over the former in the playoffs any day but in general Na. And yeah Lakers fans should be obnoxious fans who think they’ve won before they’ve started too.

  • http://www.slamonline.com nbk

    I didn’t say he wasn’t. But he shows up against Dallas and frankly played way ether than Kobe did against the same team. You can’t say “Kobe is enter than Wade because wade didn’t show up in the 2011 playoffs…even though he outplayed Kobe against te same team that swept him” – that’s ridiculous.

  • http://www.slamonline.com nbk

    Sorry autospell and not proffreading from my phone makes my comments look like they are coming from a drunk

  • http://www.xvideos.com nbk troll

    Kobe is better than wade is today by a tiny slim margin. Rondo deserves to be on top ten list due to accomplishments but is far from top ten talent in the league ( sounds crazy and like a oxymoron but true!) Dirk is certainly top ten, but gets racially profiled ( yeah I took it there) and slept on. Cp3 dwill westbrook are all Awesome, but NBA is a big man’s game and they are all easier to contain which is why they all are bottom of top ten. With that being said that is what makes d.rose so special. Kd is a freak of nature, he is like Dirk with handles and he will dunk on that dome. Dwight is defense and dunks on that dome, just too big too strong. KING JAMES is the best player in the universe….

  • SeanMagicJuan

    1. L. James
    2. K. Durant
    3. D. Howard
    4. D. Wade
    5. D. Rose
    6. K. Bryant
    7. R. Rondo
    8. D. Nowitski
    9. C. Anthony
    9. R. Westbrook
    10.

  • SeanMagicJuan

    1. L. James
    2. K. Durant
    3. D. Howard
    4. D. Wade
    5. D. Rose
    6. K. Bryant
    7. R. Rondo
    8. D. Nowitski
    9. C. Anthony
    10. R. Westbrook

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Let me introduce some logic to this:
    1. We are not debating career accomplishments. Dirk and Kobe have had great careers. So has Grant Hill. Don’t bring up things so far in the past to prove the present.
    2. While you can try to make a case for Kobe being better than Wade the past 3 years, it’s not a strong one as most (if not all) statistics are against you. Wade has been a better defender, creator, and a more efficient scorer.
    3. I will never respect Black Mamba from here on out. Sorry dude, but you’ve been pathetic.
    4. Lakers fans overvalue points per game, solely because it’s the one stat left that Kobe is elite in. Is Mo Williams a better point guard than Rondo because Mo scores more?
    5. From what I’ve seen, most people project Kobe to average in the range between 18-5-3 to 22-5-4. Kobe’s shooting percentage has never cracked 47%. Don’t expect it to go up, especially since he’s declined every year for the past 4.
    6. I say Kobe gets 21-5-4. That is not a top 10 player. Those are the stats Tyreke Evans had his rookie year and I know we didn’t consider him top 10 in the league.
    7. Kobe fans will point to his intangibles, clutchness, attitude, confidence, leadership, etc. Just stop. Tim Duncan outclasses Kobe in all of those, but I don’t hear anyone arguing he’s still the best power forward in the league.
    8. The only justification for placing Kobe in the top 5 in the league for NEXT YEAR is either believing he’ll increase his stats over last year, or valuing points per game (without FG%) as the sole important stat.
    I’ll gladly change my point of view if I’m presented with logical facts or stats, and not stuff from Kobe’s distant past. His two rings in ’09 and ’10 do not count for now; he’s moved past that era.

  • http://www.slamonline.com nbk

    You gotta realize most of you Kobe fans have made the argument that LeBron was overrated because he didn’t show up in the finals and now are arguing that Wade didn’t show up in the whole playoffs. You bashed LeBron while praising Wade about the finals, but now that Kobe is involved you use the reverse argument to make your point. Basically it looks like the Kobe crowd will use whatever argument suits the situation without resizing how hypocritical the premise is in the first place. Wade has been better during the regular season and playoffs when healthy. He played bad for 2 series in 2011, then murdered the team that swept Kobe and the reigning champion Lakers in the second round. If you look at the last 3 seasons + playoffs and compare the two players it’s clear who has been better. Especially if you even give a little bit of a sh*t about defense. Kobe scores more, because he shoots more. That Kobe scores better is really the only rational argument for the guy at this point. The 2012 playoffs proved little to nothing because Wade was hurt and still was the second best player on a championship team, and 2011 showed little between the two because although Wade played bad, he excelled against the very team that Swept Kobe and his Championship roster in the second round. So you have to look at te wealth of data over the last 3 years, which is definitely in Wades favor. Kobe is 34 going into his 17th season, if he was still better than a 30 year old Wade then he’d be a robot anyway. I’m sorry Kobe/Lakers fans, father time is an asshole.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Beat you to the rational retort nbk haha.

  • http://www.slamonline.com nbk

    I know f*cker lol

  • http://www.stillonthebench.blogspot.com TR

    After LeBron, Durant and Howard as the top 3 everything is completely subjective. If Wade can bounce back from the injuries then I think we’ll be talking about him in that discussion of top 3-4 again. He was clearly hurt this year so I personally can’t wait to see if he gets back to his old self.

  • Rainman

    @redd: i like jj. But no. Ginobili when healthy is a whole nother beast. Put ginobili as the main option in atlanta like jj has been and u’l see. (That wuda obvs been in his prime as well) put JJ on the spurs? He’s joe johnson of the phx suns(05 and earlier).

  • http://www.xvideos.com nbk troll

    kobe is aged but not significantly. He ain’t dunking on fools domes, but he is still strong as shlt and taller than wade by like 3 inches. I feel he is still a smarter player than wade @ this point and I feel like judging kobe fg% as a reflection of how good he is, is kinda unfair knowing he is a chuck. Like atleast four times a game he is shooting bad shots just cause he cocky like that. Like I know it sound crazy, but if you forced kobe to not force bad shots his fg% would be closer to 50%

  • http://Slamonline.com Kap

    @nbk…but Kobe is still elite is all I’m saying. I could care less about ranking or stats. Kobe wins and so do the lakers and that’s all us lakers fans care about. Our team constantly wins and the current star has achieved more than any other player since MJ.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Actually, by Draft Express, Kobe has 1 inch on Wade, Their strength is roughly the same. And you can’t say assumptions like “if Kobe didn’t chuck.” That’s pathetic and you know it. Watch:
    “If Dwight didn’t get fouled so much, he wouldn’t miss so many free throws. That’s why Dwight is a good free throw shooter.” That’s an equivalent argument.

  • http://www.slamonline.com nbk

    Shooting a bad shot is like giving away a possession. It’s so utterly stupid to make an argument and willfully ignore a negative aspect of a players game just because he’s cocky. Like that aspect of his game doesn’t actually exist when it matters or something. Kobe being a Chucker and shooting 43% is a negative. It’s not just something to shrug your shoulders at and ignore..

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Kap, know who actually has achieved more, won more, and been better? Duncan. You speak in such absolutes, it’s so easy to make you look stupid by inserting one little counterpoint.

  • http://www.slamonline.com nbk

    Kap I never said he wasn’t elite, I said he’s not better than Wade. Kobe is the second best (and on some nights the best) shooting guard in the league. Not a bad thing.

  • http://www.slamonline.com nbk

    Shooting a bad shot is like giving away a possession. It’s so utterly stupid to make an argument and willfully ignore a negative aspect of a players game just because he’s c0cky. Like that aspect of his game doesn’t actually exist when it matters or something. Kobe being a Chucker and shooting 43% is a negative. It’s not just something to shrug your shoulders at and ignore.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Sorry nbk, just one step ahead of you on this one.

  • http://www.slamonline.com nbk

    I would got you if I woulda type c0cky with a zero

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Haha fair enough. Is this even fun, though, debating with Kobe fanatics? It’s like watching Dwight post up a point guard.

  • http://www.xvideos.com nbk troll

    Naw chucking is definitively a fault that kobe has, I’m just putting it out there that his fg% is a little skewed by that fact. I feel like if u judging how good a player is, skills like passing shooting rebounding are more important than decision making. And u gotta look @ things realistically and not like the computer stat number cruncher u are nbk. ( see my post on the bosh thread yesterday) we all know kobe got a great jumper, the fact that he chucks doesn’t make his jumper worse it just lowers his fg%. And u right those are basically turnovers for the team but him shooting a bad shot is usually the best option for the team. Kobe over two defenders or Blake over 1. Kobe 6’7 wade 6’4

  • http://www.slamonline.com nbk

    Lol Some of them aren’t crazy. And it’s hard to let go of something that was so wonderful. I went through Charles Barkley denial when I was younger. I understand it. But no, this really isn’t fun. Arguing rationally to people in a state of denial
    Or whatever is not as much fun as having a genuine debate (civilized argument is what I prefer to call it).

  • http://Slamonline.com Kap

    @Caboose. I stated a fact. You can’t possibly argue that Kobe isn’t the most accomplished player in the L. You’re just as bias as a Kobe Stan if you disagree.

  • Drig

    @nbk……So, the 2012 playoffs proved nothing because Wade was hurt ( which I agree ) but you discount the fact that Kobe had a balky knee vs Dalals?? How? BTW, before you get on my case about being a Kobe maniac, I’d agree with the premise that Wade was overall better than Kobe in ’11, Kobe was better in ’12 because he played more games and meant more to the team and either player would’ve been okay in ’10.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Troll, you’re stupid. Just stop. None of that carried any intellectual weight. And I used Draft Express for my information: Wade is 6’4.75″ with shoes. Kobe is 6’6.00″ with shoes. So sorry, it was 1.25 inches. Where did you get yours? Wikipedia?

  • http://slamonline.com Datkid

    see the disconnect here is that you guys are arguing about 2 different things. statistically Wade is the superior shooting guard. that’s not arguable. yes he’s hurt more but that’s irrelevant. however kobe is far more skilled in terms of shooting and post game etc etc. but kobe being skilled doesn’t make him better than wade, especially at this point in their careers, where kobe isn’t as athletic. It just makes him more skilled. and it’s hilarious that you guys don’t think that wade wouldn’t do damage w/ the lakers roster against the mavs. Did you see what he did w/ the heat? the only reason the mavs won that series was because they were able to stop lebron. they had NO answer for wade, who was having a vintage performance against them. and wade was having trouble against westbrook bc his knee was killing him… he’d been hurt all playoffs.Also black mamba? buddy? anytime you find yourself agreeing with the seed…it’s time to stop arguing. you too kap.

  • http://slamonline.com Datkid

    the disconnect here is that you guys are arguing about 2 different things. statistically Wade is the superior shooting guard. that’s not arguable. yes he’s hurt more but that’s irrelevant. however kobe is far more skilled in terms of shooting and post game etc etc. but kobe being skilled doesn’t make him better than wade, especially at this point in their careers, where kobe isn’t as athletic. It just makes him more skilled. and it’s hilarious that you guys don’t think that wade wouldn’t do damage w/ the lakers roster against the mavs. Did you see what he did w/ the heat? the only reason the mavs won that series was because they were able to stop lebron. they had NO answer for wade, who was having a vintage performance against them. and wade was having trouble against westbrook bc his knee was killing him… he’d been hurt all playoffs.Also black mamba? buddy? anytime you find yourself agreeing with the seed…it’s time to stop arguing. you too kap.

  • Drig

    Now, regarding placing Wade on the ’12 Lakers……LAL’s D would’ve improved ( provided he could actually play as many games as Kobe did ) but their O would’ve been chaotic. Anyone who saw LAL play last season know that the 3 biggest problems for LAL were lack of spacing, Gasol-Bynum games not meshing together well, no perimeter scoring aside from Kobe. So tell me how replacing LAL’s best perimeter scorer with a slasher and an inconsistent jumper would help LAL’s spacing woes??? Again, this is assuming the supporting cast on the perimeter lets the Lakers down as they did with Kobe.

  • http://slamonline.com Datkid

    smh can i post? please?

  • Drig

    @Caboose……one thing…why do you not think Kobe’s FG% is atleast gonna be around 47% this year provided LAL work out the O???

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    I can’t Kap? Watch me.
    Duncan: 3 rings as the best player on his team, missed an All Star game twice in his career, missed all-defensive team twice in his career, never missed the playoffs, missed all-NBA team thrice in his career, 2 MVP’s, and a ROY. Is Kobe close in terms of career? Of course. That’s why dismissing Duncan so easily just reveals how utterly stupid, biased, ill-informed, and wrong you are.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Drig, because he’s never done it once in his career. And he’s been declining for the past 4 years. There’s no reason to expect him to buck his career trends at age 34. Or magically get better.

  • ka$h

    @ nbk’s comment Posted: Aug.26 at 6:56 pm… Why am I giving Wade a pass for this yrs playoffs, when u won’t do the same for Kobe’s knee issues in the 2011 playoffs? Wasn’t 2011 the summer KB went to Germany for the knee procedure? He was bone on bone before that I recall…

  • Drig

    @Caboose…..but even last season, Kobe shot at a pretty good clip off screen curls thanks to Gasol/Bynum. What hurt Kobe’s FG% the most last season aside from his isos at times was his inability to play the PnR because his hands aren’t where they used to be anymore because of injuries. If Nash and Pau can run the PnR and help Kobe set up on the opposite site to keep defenders from committing towards Nash/Pau or Dwight, I’d say LAL’s O would be superb and Kobe would have the time of his life shooting open Js on most shots. I’m expecting 21-6-6 line from Kobe next season with 47% FG% and 34% 3PT FG%

  • http://slamonline.com Datkid

    as I side note I f*ck w/ slick rick’s list. here’s mine. (when healthy)
    Lebron
    Dwight
    Durant
    Wade
    D.will/CP3
    Kobe
    Westbrook
    Rondoooooooooo

    and I could be convinced to flip westbrook and kobe’s spaces. or wade and durant’s bc wade can be an absolute game changer on defense.
    also cosign the homie caboose’s ranking for next year

  • http://www.xvideos.com nbk troll

    Caboose I’m just telling y fg% is not the end all be all to being a great shooter, its just a stat that u can look @ and use in a argument. That’s why I said look @ it realistically. Kobe never has had a great fg% but look what he has done. His fg% prob will improve next year just simply by taking less shots conversely he will prob avg. Less points… See how math works!

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Drig, Kobe shot 44% when he had Payton, Malone, and Shaq on his team. He has NEVER shot 47% in his career so I really can’t project him to do something he’s never done when he’s clearly on the decline. And no chance Kobe’s rebounds go up with Dwight around. C’mon, you know that. 21-5-4 with 44% and 31%

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    nbk troll, so the fact that Kobe’s lowest fg%’s have come when he shoots less are meaningless to you? I know you’re -trying- to reason through things, but your brain isn’t better than actual stats.

  • http://Slamonline.com Kap

    Umm ok Caboose let’s bash my intelligence bc I stated Kobe is most accomplished player in the L. It’s a fact like I said. No debate.

  • http://www.slamonline.com nbk

    Read what I said again.
    .
    “Wade has been better during the regular season and playoffs when healthy. He played bad for 2 series in 2011, then murdered the team that swept Kobe and the reigning champion Lakers in the second round. If you look at the last 3 seasons + playoffs and compare the two players it’s clear who has been better.”
    .
    “The 2012 playoffs proved little to nothing because Wade was hurt and still was the second best player on a championship team, and 2011 showed little between the two because although Wade played bad, he excelled against the very team that Swept Kobe and his Championship roster in the second round. So you have to look at te wealth of data over the last 3 years, which is definitely in Wades favor. Kobe is 34 going into his 17th season, if he was still better than a 30 year old Wade then he’d be a robot anyway. I’m sorry Kobe/Lakers fans, father time is an asshole.”
    .
    - and Kobe’s trip to Germany for that provide, that is a temporary fix. Like duct tape.

  • http://www.slamonline.com nbk

    Read what I said again.
    .
    “Wade has been better during the regular season and playoffs when healthy. He played bad for 2 series in 2011, then murdered the team that swept Kobe and the reigning champion Lakers in the second round. If you look at the last 3 seasons + playoffs and compare the two players it’s clear who has been better.”
    .
    “The 2012 playoffs proved little to nothing because Wade was hurt and still was the second best player on a championship team, and 2011 showed little between the two because although Wade played bad, he excelled against the very team that Swept Kobe and his Championship roster in the second round. So you have to look at te wealth of data over the last 3 years, which is definitely in Wades favor. Kobe is 34 going into his 17th season, if he was still better than a 30 year old Wade then he’d be a robot anyway. I’m sorry Kobe/Lakers fans, father time is an asshole.”
    .
    - and Kobe’s trip to Germany for that procedure, that is a temporary fix. Like duct tape.

  • Drig

    @Caboose….but Payton was never the shooter that Nash still is. Malone played only about half the season if I remember correctly. Also, Kobe was the guy who provided the perimeter scoring punch for LAL back then. This season, I expect Nash and Pau to help him out in that department and let him breathe more. Damn, I forgot Kobe’s minutes are gonna be decreased next season as well ( to around 32 minutes from the ridiculous 38 mpg he was forced to play last season ). You got the stats right but I still think 46-48% and around 34% are gonna be the figures.

  • http://www.slamonline.com nbk

    Duncan is the greates player in the NBA right now. I still gave never heard a genuinely good argument that Kobe has had a better career or was a better player.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Kap, you say it’s a fact but you’ve given NOTHING to back it up. Do you have some nitrogen bubbles on your brain that prevent you from comprehending the definition of a “fact?” That’s why I mock your intellect, what little of it there is.

  • Drig

    @nbk…..I read what you said. “The 2012 playoffs proved little to nothing because Wade was hurt and still was the second best player on a championship team, and 2011 showed little between the two because although Wade played bad, he excelled against the very team that Swept Kobe and his Championship roster in the second round. So you have to look at te wealth of data over the last 3 years, which is definitely in Wades favor.”

    Wade excelled against a team a liftless or more aptly, a lifeless Kobe struggled against. Just wanted to make that clear. Also, I don’t quite agree with Wade being the better playoffs performer for the last 3 years outright. Kobe was very good and at the very least on par with Wade till Game 7 vs the Celts in ’10. In ’11, Wade was better. ’12 is a case when both players didn’t manage to pull their weight enough IMO.

    As long as Kobe’s knees last for 2 more seasons, I’ll be content.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Drig, read the comment I addressed to troll; Kobe’s lowest fg%’s of his career come when he shoots less. So sadly, I can’t see any fact-based logic to justify a jump in his shooting percentages. I understand it in concept; Nash should up his fg% but in history, it just hasn’t happened.

  • Drig

    @nbk……you could also make a case for Kobe. More Finals appearances. More titles. Just as many all-star games. Don’t think there’s too much of a disparity among the all-nba teams they made or whether deserving or not, the defensive teams as well. Duncan had one more MVP but I’m among those who believe Kobe was snubbed in ’06 as well. Duncan was the man in 3 NBA Finals while Kobe was the man in 2 of them and was the man till the Finals in 02. Duncan’s considered to be arugably the greatest PF ever while Kobe is considered to be the 2nd greatest SG ever. Duncan has a ROY over Kobe but that means squat IMO.

  • Drig

    @Caboose……got a class right now but I’ll check up on it and post back after 3-4 hours after checking the stats. BTW, if possible, give me the link of where you obtained it. IMO, the games Kobe attempted less shots are usually the games Kobe doesn’t get his shot on ( USUALLY…… :( ), is tired or tries to make a statement. But I’ll check it out.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    I meant based on season, Drig. His two lowest FG%’s (for a season) came when he scored and shot the least. In addition, Kobe shot .438 and .433 when he averaged 24 and 28 a game, in contrast to the seasons when he averaged 30, 35, and 32 and shot .451, .450 and .463.

  • http://Slamonline.com Kap

    Kobe holds just about every franchise record for the most storied NBA franchise and one of most accomplished franchises that includes many HOFs. That’s a valid enough argument. I also factor Kobes global appeal and box office appeal as career accomplishments along with 7 finals, 5 titles, 81 points, all nba, all defense, all star MVP, 2 MVP finals, 2 gold medals, top 5 all time in points, and so on. I think that’s a good argument NBK. Kobe has been elite for 17 seasons while Duncan as elite stopped two seasons ago.

  • RKJ92

    man these kobe dick riders actually hurt my head.. its sad to think that they really have no arguments other then “kobe WAS so greaaatt!! kobe was so CLUTCHHH and no matter how old he gets or how much more shots he chucks up at shitty fg% hes ALWAYS gonna be the best!”
    NO HE ISNT YOU DUMB ASS STUPID LAKER NATION DICK RIDERS.
    Kobe fell OFF thats it THATS ALL. Wade has been better then kobe the last 2 seasons and the next one he will be and the one after that and so on.. so JUST STOP. -.-

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Kobe was elite averaging 8-2-1? Wow, Kap, you truly are stupid. Or you’re 13, and I apologize for ruining your adolescent fandom. Duncan leads the Spurs the same way Kobe leads the Lakers, so nice try there. Marketing appeal isn’t exactly a good argument as to why someone is a more accomplished player. Otherwise Dennis Rodman is more accomplished than Duncan. You ignore the fact that Duncan has more MVP’s and Finals MVP’s, the things you Kobe fans tend to point to as great achievements. Timmy also hasn’t lost in the Finals, something Kobe can’t claim. Honestly dude, it just sounds like you’re trying to be ironic. If you are, great job, you’ve baited me into actually arguing. If not, it’s just sad.

  • http://Slamonline.com Kap

    Duncan wished he had Kobe’s career. I just asked my GF and her friend if they know who Tim Duncan is and they asked was he one of my friends. Case closed.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Kap, you’re pathetic. That’s it huh? The end all be all of basketball discussion rests with a girl who’s attracted to an idiot and doesn’t know basketball? That makes sense. You win, based on the great oracles.

  • ka$h

    @ nbk, here is what you wrote, that I replied to:
    Uhm, Look what Wade did against Dallas in the playoffs in 2011 – and compare it to Kobe against Dallas in the playoffs in 2011. Then stop bringing up 2012, Wade was hurt, which is well documented and resulted in surgery right after the playoffs. Your argument sounds dumb when you keep harboring on an irrelevant point. Look at their seasons over the lay 3 years, Wade has been better in every way but total points. Which is probably judging by the evidence, a consequence of shots attempted.
    .
    Wade is better for two main reasons, he plays better overall defense, specifically as a help defender. And he attacks the rim rather than settle for jumpers like Bryant. Which is a factor of age.

    That’s what I was responding to…

    I didn’t see:
    Wade has been better during the regular season and playoffs when healthy. He played bad for 2 series in 2011, then murdered the team that swept Kobe and the reigning champion Lakers in the second round. If you look at the last 3 seasons + playoffs and compare the two players it’s clear who has been better.”
    .
    “The 2012 playoffs proved little to nothing because Wade was hurt and still was the second best player on a championship team, and 2011 showed little between the two because although Wade played bad, he excelled against the very team that Swept Kobe and his Championship roster in the second round. So you have to look at te wealth of data over the last 3 years, which is definitely in Wades favor. Kobe is 34 going into his 17th season, if he was still better than a 30 year old Wade then he’d be a robot anyway. I’m sorry Kobe/Lakers fans, father time is an asshole.”

    What’s the timestamp on that must have missed it?

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    WOE BETIDE HE WHO DISOBEYETH THE ORACLE!

  • b2bmvpnashty

    I’m a lakers fan, and I love kevin durant, and I believe he will nab the mvp this year, he is coming into his prime, and he is a beast. I think westbrook is awesome, and really has become a solid 2nd option for OKC, but he is playing out of position, he should be a PG. That being said, this is the list of the most talented players in the league, sorry derrick rose, but until your healthy, I can’t put you in this top ten:(

    1.Lebron James
    2.Kevin durant
    3.D12
    4.Deron williams
    5.Rajon rondo
    6.Kobe bryant
    7.Chris paul
    8.Dwayne wade
    9.Tony parker
    10.Carmello anthony

  • b2bmvpnashty

    Close calls for me, to add to the list above, would be :Russell westbrook, amare stoudemire, Andrew bynum, Dirk nowitzki, steve nash, paul pierce, and blake griffin.

  • http://slamonline.com Black Mamba

    Caboose come on. nobody here is stupid. just have opinions

  • http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=tablet-android-verizon&tbo=d&gbv=2&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=the+goonies+sloth&oq=the+goonies+sloth&aq=f&aqi=g5g-S4&aql=&gs_ LakeShow

    Buncha nerds.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Redd

    LOL@that top 10

  • http://www.slamonline.com Redd

    Shout out to Caboose, good read.

  • http://slamonline.com Datkid

    I swear to god slam LET ME POST
    as I side note I f*ck w/ slick rick’s list. here’s mine. (when healthy)
    Lebron
    Dwight
    Durant
    Wade
    D.will/CP3
    Kobe
    Westbrook
    Rondoooooo

    and I could be convinced to flip westbrook and kobe’s spaces. or wade and durant’s bc wade can be an absolute game changer on defense.
    also cosign the homie caboose’s ranking for next year

  • iceman

    weighing in Kobe took the MOST shots in the league last season and was less efficient than Wade by shooting 43% and literally shooting his team out of this years playoff’s, so 1 right now Wade is a more efficient scorer, 2 he plays better defense right NOW, so lets just focus on right now and not a whole career right and the facts speak for themselves

    Kobe Bryant Field Goal Attempts & Lakers Win-Loss Record

    25+ FGA: 11-9 record, 55% win percentage

    22-24 FGA: 10-6 record, 63% win percentage

    21 & Fewer FGA: 12-5, 71% win percentage

    Kobe Bryant’s Field Goal Attempts, Field Goal Percentage, & Lakers Win-Loss Record

    25+ FGA, <40% FG%: 0-7 record, 0% win percentage

    21 & Fewer FGA, <40% FG%: 5-3 record, 63% win percentage

    source credit – http://sports.yahoo.com/fantasy/nba/news?slug=ycn-11188016

    In the present the here and now Wade is the better player, and all this nonsense about riding cotails Lebron went to Wade's team not the other way around and Wade deferred to the current best player in the league and got his ego out of the way and still dropped a couple 40 point games along with LBJ to push the Heat to the Finals on one leg. That's Like u Kobe fans saying the mamba rode The Diesels co-tails to get 3 chips

    For the Lakers to win it all it's simple Kobe shoot less and take smarter more team boosting effiecent shots vs Shooting over 2 or 3 guys with a fade away to feed your ego- which PJ has noted on well see he has the bb smarts to do it but will he push his ego to the side? who knows

  • http://slamonline.com Datkid

    also cosign redd.. caboose is doing his thing as usual. an argument can be made for Duncan> Kobe. but i hate that boring boring robot so f*cking much… so I strongly disagree.

  • http://Slamonline.com Kap

    @caboose…forgot to mention that Kobe owns the Spurs in the playoffs in head to head meetings. His best games in playoffs have come against San Antonio. Duncan has been to 4 finals and Kobe 7. I think that’s much better even if he’s lost a few.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Redd

    I don’t hate Duncan but he definitely isn’t the cool choice, but is he better than Kobe? Yeah in just about every way. And I’d easily take a healthy Rose over any other PG on a list.

  • Drig

    @Caboose…….re: Duncan’s achievements, Kobe led his team to a repeat. Something which I think Kobe deserves points for there as well. Also, Duncan’s not lost in the Finals but has been only to 4 of them. Compared to Kobe who’s been to the Finals 7 times. While I realize that’s because Kobe’s had a slightly better team than Duncan has over the years ( not counting THIS YEAR ), I’d say Kobe has managed to get as much as Duncan has from his team. So I don’t see how Duncan’s clearly the most accomplished player in the last decade. And I haven’t even mentioned the international game yet.

  • http://Slamonline.com Kap

    So we really comparing PF to SG and saying he’s better in every category. Now I remember why I stopped posting here.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Redd

    Kobe has definitely done a lot, but Duncan has done a lot more without the big time names to back him up.

  • http://Slamonline.com Kap

    Kobe has two more years at least at elite level while Duncans days as elite are gone. Kobe will go down as better than Duncan and having the better career. The guy holds just about every franchise record for the NBAs greatest franchise.

  • Drig

    Re:Kobe’s shooting, the stats you took are from Kobe’s young buck #8 days right? That Kobe and this Kobe are miles different and this Kobe is worse. However, with more rest ( dude was running on fumes the last few games before the All-Star break ), more set shots, less doubling, less ball handling duties , I expect the extra energy to go to D and having more lift on his Js over the course of the game. Too many times last season did Kobe heat up in the 1st or 3rd quarters to lose steam a bit too quickly by the time 4th quarter came around. One of the many reasons why last season was his worst in almost a decade as far as 4th quarter play went.

  • Drig

    @Redd….by big time names, Shaq and ? Because you’re using revisionist theory if you mention Pau/Bynum/Odom along with him. Shaq was the only guy who was a bonafide superstar before Kobe rose into stardom. Pau was seen as good post player who couldn’t get out of the first round and as an all-star. So tell me how Kobe played with many more big name players???

  • Keezy

    1. LeBron
    2. Durant
    3. Dwight
    4. Kobe
    5. Wade
    6. CP3
    7. Melo
    8. D-Will
    9. Westbrook
    10. Tony Parker

  • Drig

    @Redd……..mind telling me when Rose can ever be 100% healthy again?? He WILL NOT be able to play like he used to unless he wants to become T-Mac v2. He will need to pick his spots more and become a bit more like CP3 rather than AI.

  • http://Slamonline.com Kap

    Lol Duncan played with Robinson, Ginobili, and Parker. Lol.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Redd

    @drig are you slow? The dude said ‘(when healthy)’ and when healthy Rose is better than Westbrook.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Redd

    Drig you’re a moron with all due respect..kind’ve. Gary Payton, Karl Malone, etc. and now Steve Nash and Dwight? Shut up dude.

  • mytiman

    Barring any injuries, the list is:

    LeBron
    Durant
    Rose
    Howard
    Kobe

    1 and 2 are pretty obvious. Derrick Rose is the best point guard in the league. For all the people who say he is just a scorer, look at the Bulls team and tell me who should be? Deng, Noah, Boozer? Please. Plus, this guy still is the leader in assists for the team, so he’s pretty much doing good on point guard duties.
    Dwight Howard is the best center in the league, and no one comes close to him. Not even Bynum.
    And Kobe is still Kobe. He may be on his 17th season next year, but come to think of all the accolades he has gotten over the years, and still competing to be the best against all these youngsters dominating the league.

  • Drig

    You still haven’t answered the question about WHEN Rose will ever be 100% healthy again. He won’t be playing at the same all-out level that he has been playing all these years. And Kobe played with GP, Malone etc. for one year in which Malone didn’t play for half a season not to mention the Finals and GP struggled to fit in with the triangle. And I’d rather be a moron if you’re intelligent. With all due respect.

  • Drig

    You still haven’t answered the question about WHEN Rose will ever be 100% healthy again. He won’t be playing at the same all-out level that he has been playing all these years. And Kobe played with GP, Malone etc. for one year in which Malone didn’t play for half a season not to mention the Finals and GP struggled to fit in with the triangle. I didn’t mention Dwight and Nash because Kobe hasn’t even played a single effing minute with them lol. Once Kobe plays significant minutes with them, I’ll add them to the list okay? And I’d rather be a moron if you’re intelligent. With all due respect.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Redd

    Wtf does when have anything to do with it? Why are you asking such an idiot question, do I look like his doctor? Why would I know? I’ll tell you why, cause you realize look like a buffoon for not reading what I said. When healthy Rose is better than Westbrook. And again, you said big names, I named them. You look dumb..with all due respect.

  • Drig

    I’m saying it’s pointless about evaluating Rose now based on what he did in his past pre ACL tear. From what I’ve heard, that’s the sort of injury that forces players to make changes to their games. For all we know, a fully healthy post ACL tear Rose might not even crack the top 10 is what I’m saying. Re : LAL, You gave me big names who haven’t yet played with him OR joined him at the fag end of their careers and were at best solid role players for THAT season in particular.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Some folks are just allergic to reason. I’ve read more than once that stats don’t matter and I’ve read that Deron Williams, Russell Westbrook and Chris Paul can be contained (as if it’s happened on a consistent basis before). People have actually said that Kobe’s shooting percentage doesn’t matter. Wade having better seasons the past 3 out of 4 years doesn’t matter because Kobe has had a better career and scores more? Nevermind the fact that he shoots more to score more. That’s really what people believe. One person even said Kobe’s taller so that makes him better. What? I’ve read an argument that basically boils down to “Kobe has had a better career. He’s still elite. He can outscore anyone. I don’t care. He wins. That’s all that matters. My team wins. Kobe is a winner” As if that’s even a solid argument to make. None of it addresses the fact that Wade has had better seasons 3 out of the past 4 years. Kobe’s fanatics are getting close to Jordan’s. Those arguing for Kobe have yet to make any effort to address the facts. All they know is Kobe scores. If FG% meant nothing, individually, without taking into account team accomplishments, Iverson would be thought of as a better player than Kobe Bryant. He scored more. Are people aware of the fact that there is more to basketball than just shooting and scoring?
    As for the D-Rose question, we won’t know if he’ll get back to his regular level until 2013-2014. It usually takes players two seasons to fully recover from that kind of injury. They can play again in one year, but can’t be evaluated until the next season.
    The Duncan disrespect is crazy. Duncan has 4 titles, 3 as the unquestioned best player on his team and in the league. The best player since Jordan retired. Parker and Ginobili aren’t surefire Hall of Famers. There has been no superstar wing player that he’s played with. You can look up the individual accomplishments yourselves. But Duncan today has a better career than Kobe. Kobe could win two more, but it won’t be as the best player on his team. Dwight is that now. So Kobe’s 2 titles as the best player won’t change. He’s done winning as the number one guy. Duncan has 3. No feuds with teammates. No cries for help or for a trade. Perhaps the best power forward to ever play. I wouldn’t say Kobe led his team to a 3 peat because he didn’t. The first Finals win, he only averaged 21 points. Not superstar level. The next two he was great, but Shaq was the leader.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    As for getting the most out of your teammates, to say that Kobe’s done it better than Duncan is wild. Duncan has never been selfish. Never shot his team out of games. Always kept his teammates involved. When it was time, he gave the team to Parker and Ginobili. Kobe never has allowed Gasol to take his rightful place as the first option. I wouldn’t be surprised if he comes back next season still fighting the fact that he can’t do what he used to do regardless of the knee procedure he had done. Sometimes, you can watch him trying to do what he used to do and he ends up turning the ball over and flailing his arms begging for a foul call. When have you ever watched Duncan play the past few seasons and seen that he’s struggling. Never. Because he doesn’t try to do things he knows he can do anymore. He does what he can and the Spurs are still a top team in the West mainly because Duncan isn’t trying to reverse time.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Kobe holding franchise records doesn’t make him better than Wade either lol. The man has played in the NBA with the Lakers for half of his life. Shoot enough. Score enough. After 17 years, of course you’re going to hold some records. But once again, this isn’t a debate about career achievements. Today, Wade is better than Kobe. The only people who disagree have Kobe’s nickname as their name on here and/or are die hard supporters of him. Facts don’t matter to these people. No one has made a reasonable argument against it because there is none to make. The only reason people say stats don’t matter is because Wade’s stats have been better than Kobe’s. The only stat people point to with Kobe is PPG as if that’s the only measuring stick that should be looked at.

  • http://www.newyorkshockexchange.com Shock Exchange

    Word coming from outta of L.A, is that with Pau Gasol/D12 at the same ____ time, Mitch Kupchak thinks the Lakers have exceeded the “Horry Jr Differential.”

  • http://www.newyorkshockexchange.com Shock Exchange

    And after the previous dissertation, it should be clear to everyone where the “Horry Jr” nickname came from. Some people shouldn’t be taken seriously.

  • havoc33

    I would say both sides in this Kobe vs Wade debate is wrong. At this point in their careers, there is no clear cut edge to either of the two. Wade arguably had a better regular season than Kobe in ’09 and ’10, but Kobe had the better playoff runs and ultimately won Finals MVP’s. After that they have both taken turns being banged up, but have had their spurts where they have performed great. But BOTH of them have already peaked, and it will be interesting to see who manages to maximise the most out of what is left in the tank. My bet would be on Kobe, as Wade had a huge drop off last year. The addition of Nash will finally relieve Kobe of the ball handling duties, which should save him some much needed energy come crunch time. Also, much is said about Kobe’s 43% fg percentage last year, yet they fail to acknowledge the myriad of issues (new coach/system w/o training camp, pau gasol flaming out, bynum’s immaturity, kobe logging way too heavy minutes) plaguing that Lakers team from day one, in which Kobe really was the one Laker that stood tall throughout the season and showed true leadership skills.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    The reason for Wade’s dropoff was him handing the team over to LeBron, not so much a reduction in skill or ability. New coach/system, no training camp, Pau Gasol or Bynum have nothing to do with Kobe shooting bad shots.

  • havoc33

    Nor did I say that, did I? I merely pointed out that it was a messy season, and commended Kobe’s leadership skills throughout it. As for his fg %, I expect it to go up a bit again this year seeing that he does not have to be playing the same type of minutes. But if you think that Wade’s decline only happened because of him willingly handing the team over to Lebron, then you are fooling yourself. Wade peaked in ’09, but has slowly been declining since that. Injuries of course played a part in his huge drop off last year, but even Wade himself admitted he is not the same player he once was. It remains to be seen if he can bounce back as effenciently this time around. The irony of Wade’s game of course is that what makes him great is also what makes him so prone to injury.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Wade, even not being what he once was, is still better than Kobe is right now. If he shot as much as Kobe, he would also get 28 a game with the same percentage. That’s the point.

  • http://www.basketball-reference.com jessedogg

    Im just glad the whole best player in the league thing is a non argument now. Its been LeBron for the past 4 years and its never been close.. I guess thats what winning does.

  • havoc33

    Umm, that’s actually a huge question mark at this point. If Wade is able to bounce back, sure, but that’s nonetheless a big if. If you wanna talk stats, then Kobe actually had a better season than Wade last year, and was also ranked higher in effeciency ranking. It must be annyoing for you that Kobe, after 16 years of shooting bad shots, still is in the discussion for best SG in the league.

  • Drig

    The hell happened to all the previous posts???

  • nbk

    they are going to take a while to transfer over

  • Allenp

    New comment system. Cool. wish I could read the old comments though. Lol.

  • nbk

    You will be able to, they said it just gonna take them a while to transfer over

  • http://www.mensa.org/workout.php shutup

    To interject, I have been following this thread from the beginning and it is very amusing, sorry LA fans but I think Boston is the most storied franchise in the NBA. They did win 8 straight Championships and from ’59-to ’69 they won 10 out of 11, you think a 3-peat is impressive imagine an 8-peat. Not to mention that Boston was the first team to have an African -American coach, and shortly after was the first African-American coached team to win a championship.

  • RKJ92

    Damnit I wasn’t done here.. -.-

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Looks great!

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Hi.

  • Marlo

    He lead the team in scoring because Lebron kept getting him wide open looks.

  • Unknown nigga

    Wade avg’d 30pts a game b4 lebron got there & that wasn’t gonna change if he didn’t have re-enforcements show up, I mean, he literally swapped out james jones &j oneal for bosh &lbj, lets be real bruhbruh.

  • Unknown nigga

    Kobe been with them scrubs & felt like he trumps them fools. Gasol on his way out after this year if dwight resigns with the team. If lebron came over to the lakers, IT WOULD BE INSTANTLY LBJ’s team. & bc lebron is substantially younger, kobe would have to get in line or risk not retiring a laker, simple as that. & wade understands that but more importantly, being unselfish is the only way that team was gonna win a ring. & on your kobe> heater than wade concept for the top 2 guard, Wade gives him the biz everytime they met up WITHOUT/BEFoRE LBJ/BOSH.

  • Unknown nigga

    Kobe been with them scrubs & felt like he trumps them fools. Gasol on his way out after this year if dwight resigns with the team. If lebron came over to the lakers, IT WOULD BE INSTANTLY LBJ’s team. & bc lebron is substantially younger, kobe would have to get in line or risk not retiring a laker, simple as that. & wade understands that but more importantly, being unselfish is the only way that team was gonna win a ring. & on your kobe> heater than wade concept for the top 2 guard, Wade gives him the biz everytime they met up WITHOUT/BEFoRE LBJ/BOSH.

  • Unknown nigga

    Howard is clearly 3rd on that list. & rise is a franchise player, but he is not “the” best pg inn the league. If he played with a wade or kobe or lbj, he would not be effective, so its good he has lowly luol& boozer,,, however cp3 exists perfectly with those guys & rondo definitely would, they both get off by getting others off,, I use the same concept with my gf & she loves me (lol) so I know they love them

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