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Tuesday, August 7th, 2012 at 5:05 pm  |  62 responses

Michael Jordan to Headline a Barack Obama Fundraising Event


NBA folks — past and current — have helped out U.S. President Barack Obama by taking part fundraising events throughout the years, and as the 2012 election draws closer, some of the big guns are coming out in support of the Prez yet again. Michael Jordan (who has been notoriously apolitical throughout his basketball life) will headline a fundraiser for Obama later on this month. Per the AP: “The Obama campaign is planning a fundraising ‘shoot-around’ and dinner in New York on Aug. 22 featuring several NBA stars, including Carmelo Anthony of the New York Knicks, Rajon Rondo of the Boston Celtics, John Wall of the Washington Wizards and others. Jordan, who played for the Chicago Bulls, Obama’s favorite NBA team, and NBA Commissioner David Stern are co-hosting a $20,000-per person fundraising dinner with the president later in the day. [...] The campaign is holding a ‘shoot-around’ with players at New York’s Chelsea Piers sports complex, including Anthony, Rondo, Wall, Paul Pierce, Kyrie Irving, Joe Johnson and former NBA centers Patrick Ewing and Alonzo Mourning. WNBA stars Sheryl Swoopes and Dawn Staley are also participating in the event, which will cost $5,000 for a parent and child or two people to have a ‘shoot-around skills session’ with the players. A $250 donation provides an autograph session with the players. Obama’s campaign plans to raffle off the chance for grass-roots supporters to attend the events.”

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  • http://www.slamonline.com/ Corky

    I feel more comfortable voting for Jordan opposed to obama or romney.

  • http://www.laumol.nl/weblog Laumol

    David Stern is chosing sides in the presidential election?

  • http://www.slamonline.com Redd

    Choosing between the better of the 2 evils, worst election in my recollection.

  • http://www.nba.com/knicks danpowers

    obama is the best president the usa had for ages but most us citizens are too blind to see that. listen kids, more state controll over social issues and a working health care system plus less war are good good things. alot of war and totally free markets are bad bad things.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Redd

    So nullifying amendment rights is good or bad?

  • http://www.nba.com/knicks danpowers

    depends on the content of the right and the context. if nullifying amendment rights helps to decrease illegal gun trade, it is a good good thing ;) because arms are bad bad things :p

  • http://www.slamonline.com Redd

    I’m liberal, I mean I barely turned 20, but I don’t think Obama allowing police to jail people without a trial is ok.

  • http://www.nba.com/knicks danpowers

    then you better elect him again and after that you vore for the next “good guy” president. if you get a republican / konservative president, you’ll be f***d big time over there lol

  • http://www.nba.com/knicks danpowers

    i mean, because of that law change. if the “good guys” got this power, you can be pretty sure that it will usually hit real threats like terrorist suspects or nra / kkk type of guys lol. but sure, i was also a bit suprised that this law change happened under obama, especially coz he never seemed to be that paranoid towards that “terrorism” issue. really cant explain why he did that. but he is still the smallest evil or best choice that you got when you live in the usa

  • http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/22/mark-cuban-skip-bayless-first-take-lebron_n_1619209.html albie1kenobi

    “Republicans buy sneakers too”

  • http://www.nba.com Shadojoker

    Completely Cosigns with danpowers!! People don’t realize that the House AND Congress has the real power when deciding what bills to pass and what “changes” need to happen to make a President effective..but people are just too blind..anyways I’m very surprised that Jordan and Stern are gonna make an appearance!!

  • http://www.nba.com/knicks danpowers

    and im not even a us-american lol

  • iceman

    how about cancel out the evils and lets do something insane and steal this election with someone who wants to actually restore the Constitution our money and our rights- Ron Paul ftw

  • MUBWAR

    really, a mormon!! end of story. won`t even get to his flip flopping, foreign affairs and past work experience(at bane). obama 2012 all the way from Canada

  • http://www.slamonline.com Redd

    What..? Obama initiated that piece of legislation, which got accepted. Also he didn’t use balance of power for drone strikes. Sadly Obama is the better of 2 evils. I hate politics, don’t much dwindle in it. I’m voting for Lesley Knope anyways.

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4FqOUz-Ia4 Ugh

    @Redd – You’re barely 20 and use the term “worst election in your recollection”? I guess that explains you not remembering how bad Bush-vs-Kerry was. In my late thirties I can’t recall any American Presidents not overriding constitutional or Amendment rights or taking action supposedly reserved for Congress.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Chinese Oppenheimer

    Exactly how many presidential elections can a 20 year old kid recollect when this is the first time he’s old enough to vote in one?

  • http://www.nba.com/knicks danpowers

    come on guys, if he is interested into politics he might have done his homework. when u study history and are 25 years old writing a tesis about the cuba crisis you might know more about it than a 70 year old who was alife when it happened but didnt pay much attention. even though i dont share his oppinion i dont think that his age is a reason to invalidate his arguements unless he doesnt come up with something absolutely stupid

  • http://www.nba.com/knicks danpowers

    xcuse my errors, im tired n english aint my mother tongue

  • http://www.slamonline.com Chinese Oppenheimer

    He specifically said recollect, as in his own memory. Not what he studied from grown ups who actually were old enough to have their own memories, and opinions based on those memories. I’m not knocking him for being interested either. It’s great that he is, but I just find odd that he’s never been old enough to vote in a presidential before this November yet he comes off like he’s speaking from experience. That’s all I’m pointing out

  • canesta

    I’ll keep my guns, money, and freedom, you all can keep the “change”…

  • riggs

    please dont start talking about politics here, because you will reveal your stupidity.

  • TYAND

    So Michael Jordan finally shows his true self. He is now going to do fundraising for 0bama. Everyone who buys his shoes making him millions each year should remember this. You can vote with your cash and since the money goes from you to Jordan back to 0bama, you gotta think about voting with your money. Also when you look up to someone like Jordan, just because he was a great player doesn’t make a great person or role model. I truly hope the news of Jordan raising money for 0bama spreads around all the msm and like 0prah, he starts to lose money from people breaking away from his brand because they now know his politics!

  • http://www.slamonline.com Redd

    I did say to MY recollection, not anyone else’s. Unless I said its the worst, you guys would have reason to argue but you really don’t. Do u recall any of them overriding powers to drop drones on people and redefining enemies as anyone old enough to carry a gun? Cause I don’t. Stop it, politics isnt for stupid people, heck ignore politics altogether. It’s not a fun ride, too aggravating.

  • http://www.nba.com/knicks danpowers

    at the one hand this law aint that nice because it rises the possibility that a “bad” presidant, e.g. any republican, could take advantage that comes with the power that is given to him or her then. on the other hand i think that us citizens can be pretty sure that the possibility almost equals zero to get imprisoned as a hostile combatant especially if they live a halfway honest and upstanding life and that it will just be used to get them out of the mess that many years of mainly republican governments drove them into. the bush administrations and cia authorities created al quaida and a big part of the “terrorism” that the usa / western hemisphere face today. the realistic and daily life impacts that you should really care about are for example his changes around the health care sector. i think if you aint poor or at leats not wealthy – and thats the biggest majority of the us population – that this has a tremendously positive affect on the lifes of most simple people. so id still say he is the smallest evil that this country elected for ages

  • http://www.nba.com/knicks danpowers

    not aint poor, i meant poor. why cant these slam guys give us an edit button?

  • Libby

    @ TYAND …do you really prefer a state where people (regardless of popularity) should have to hide their political preferences? Such views are a bit extremist…

    @ Redd Who are you referring to as “them” when you state “do you recall any of them overriding powers to drop drones on people and redefining enemies as anyone old enough to carry a gun…”

    I really hope you’re not referring to Bush. With Cheney and the devil incarnate (Karl Rove), those three characters are synonymous with abuse of executive power. They may not have done those specific things you listed, but they did other things that were just as bad, and other things that were worse (i.e. misrepresenting evidence in order to enter into the Iraq War). And that doesn’t even touch the tip of the iceberg with those three in regards to abuse of power.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    I can’t believe that people still get involved in this crap. The Electoral College chooses the President, not people. You really think the government trusts the citizens with picking the figure-head to represent the country. Open your eyes! It does not matter who is in office, your life isn’t going to change that much unless YOU take the initiative. Just because Obama is mixed does not mean that he is going to take all the lazy people in the ghetto and put ambition in their hearts – that is up to them! Bush didn’t send me to college or keep me out of jail, I did. Live your own life and leave this stupid crap up to these small-minded, money-hungry millionaires. Trust me, the less attention you pay to politics and the more you focus on your spirituality the happier you will be! I promise you that.

  • http://www.nba.com/knicks danpowers

    @JTaylor21: lazy people in the ghetto? what kind of education did you receive by your B*** of a mother and retards of teachers? i just hope u n the rest of ur fam get cancer or smth worse, ill actually pray for that when i go to bed tonite lol

  • Libby

    @ JTaylor21 The spirituality you speak of sounds as if it’s been shaped by the political ideology of liberalism…

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    @danpowers: well, you are an idiot. Don’t waste your time praying for me, just use it to educate yourself, junior. Hope me and the rest of my fam get cancer or (a word that doesn’t exist) worse?? Come on little buddy, open your eyes and shut your mouth. Also, if I got you to jump that easy no wonder you believe these talking head idiots at the podium hahahahaha!!
    @Libby: nope, just straight spirituality. Buddhism, Taoism, etc. Liberalism? Stay as far as you can from politics dude.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    danpowers, A real class act you are sir.
    Co-Sign Taylor on counting on numero uno to get sh*t done. No elected figure is going to change us around for the better. America was built on allot of crap, but it was also built on some good principles. Couple of which being, hard work, and doing that hard work your self. Yes we NEED healthcare reformation. Yes we NEED better gun laws. But electing a president or a governor or a mayor doesn’t do that. You might have to actually get down and do some gritty paperwork yourself.
    Spirituality in general provides one with a sense of connectedness to people and this planet. That’s good because we need to come together. Sounds like some fun liberal slogan, but it’s the truth. We have to realize that democrats and republicans are no different than Islamic followers and Christians. Different views that both need to compromise with the other.

  • Libby

    @JTaylor21 Liberalism as a philosophy (John Locke). I guess to me, Buddhism and Taoism are a way of life, liberalism is a perspective through which you see. Most Western people see the world through the liberal perspective (not liberal in the party sense). In other words, you speak like an individualist (versus collectivist). “Live your own life…” isn’t really a statement you’d see outside Western societies…Either way, it’s not that we can’t stay away from politics, politics can’t stay away from us. Especially when our views and way of life are at odds with capitalism/liberalism. “Living our own lives” have always been problematic to the US government. I’m an Aboriginal/Indigenous woman, for context.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Man, y’all are funny.
    Elected officials can spark change. That’s why we have Social Security and the FDIC. Those were pushed by a federal official. So were the 13th and 14th Amendments, which were especially crucial to black folks even with their uneven enforcement.
    Federal officials began the Freeman Schools, they forced school that receive federal funds to desegregate. Harry Truman worked to partially desegregate the military, which opened things up for black folks.
    Public officials are not saviors and they are not puppets. They are people interested in power and money who can do horrible things or do beneficial things.
    Believing strictly in a “bootstraps” view of the world is asinine. Believing that any federal official is going to buck the prevailing system is equally asinine. The system is in place because the vast majority of Americans either like the system, or are too apathetic to organize any change.
    Stop parroting idiocy on different ends of the spectrum.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Man, arguing that Christians and Muslims need to “compromise” is also ridiculous.
    While those religions share a common ancestor and many tenets, they have fundamental difference that make compromise impossible. In fact to “compromise” would mean renouncing what you actually believe.
    However, that doesn’t mean people can live in harmony with those who differ in their beliefs. That’s perfectly possible. The real problem isn’t religion, or politics or money. It’s the greed and small-mindedness of humanity as a whole that is expressed in individual and corporal acts of evilness.
    Yes, humans can do amazing good, but we too often do amazing evil, or allow it to be done with our conscious and unconscious blessing.

  • http://gmail.com z

    Communism is the only proper philosophy. At least if you have compassion in your heart and no ignorance clouding your mind.

  • http://gmail.com z

    And yea i kno it hasnt been executed properly anywhere yet but its definitely more worthwhile than this liberal moralistic blackmail we pass off as “politics” today…communists everywhere: time to get back to work!

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Lol nah Z. It’s just as flawed as every other philosophy. It is impossible to remove greed and corruption from human beings. If you could, they wouldn’t be human.
    Communism depended on the absence of greed and corruption, and also believed that the will of the individual should be constantly subverted for the will of the people. But, how do you determine the will of the people? And, what in human history has demonstrated that trusting mob rule is a good idea?

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Let’s face it, when has a single US president ever been worth more than a pile of sh!t? Never. Unless you’re a rich white male. The US elections have always been nothing but an empty gesture.
    “Never be deceived that the rich will permit you to vote away their wealth.” – Lucy Parsons

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    @ Allenp: Actually, social!sm means that, for the overwhelming majority of people, material benefits such as education, food, clothing and shelter, access to healthcare, etc. are available. So to most people, seeking their own self-interest is right in line with social!sm. On the other hand, capital!sm means that these material benefits are available only to a rich (white) elite, a fraction of a fraction of a % of the population.
    (Sorry if this is a double post, apparently SLAM’s comment system hates the word “social!sm”).

  • http://www.nba.com/knicks danpowers

    teh best system is the social market economy. it contains the best aspects of both, “communism” and “capitalism”. unfortunatelly western authorities in europe didnt feel much need to continue caring for their social system and responsibility in the economy when the sowjet block broke down, because then there was no opposite site the majority of the people could go to. i disagree that greed and corruption are part of the human nature. thats just the eurocentric system that europe delivered and spread through the world. first directly as colonial powers, then, dont forget that white america is nothing less than just a european decent in ideas and ethnic group, as the usa. and we see that system declining and weakening since extreme capitalism took over. some steps that obama wanted to take and took to give the state a little more controll over the economy are steps back into the right direction. i just doubt that the us american republican / konservative camp will let him bring the us to a reasonable economical and social system.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    And there is point A.
    “While those religions share a common ancestor and many tenets, they have fundamental difference that make compromise impossible.”
    What makes your view post Abraham (Christianity) better than Islam’s AllenP? That’s the only way you could not compromise; if you see your view as ‘better’ than theirs.
    Compromise is not saying you are right and I am wrong.
    Compromise is saying something to the affect of: ‘we have differences in our beliefs, but there is not reason for us to despise one another. Or try to take each other down. I am not more right than you, and you are not more right than I. We both came to the conclusions in our life based upon our cultural upbringing and the people in out lives.’
    .
    .
    .
    That is how you compromise. You reduce your ego. Something that is very hard to do. I needed help reducing my ego and I found that help. I still have a crazy terrible ego. I can’t stand me sometimes, because i’m selfish as can be, but I know i’m improving daily.
    You are a Christian because of your culture. So compromise is fairly easy. You admit to cultural differences and love other anyway, knowing that they, are just you, brought up in a different environment and a different world view.

  • http://www.nba.com/knicks danpowers

    the problem with religions and nation states root much deeper. they fill a gap between human achetipical needs / desires that we have to supress in order to be able to live in a group / society so that we dont get mad. most people cant open their mind and critically question what they believe in, weather its religion, patriotism, whatsoever. social elites understood that quite early and allways exploited these mechanics to the disatvantages of the masses. its quite funny that e.g. a poor us american got more in common with a poor muslim than he has with a rich us american. instead of directing wrath and discontent about problems to the own elites that exploit them, they direct it of people of other ethnics, flags, religions, etc… and so do most people of other ethnics, flags, religions, etc while the real “bad guys” mostly stay untouched. funny in some way

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    ^Go away fly.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Wow, SLAM seriously censors the word social!sm, it’s f*cking ridiculous.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    “Social capitalism” is a complete myth that only works for white people in the West, who make up 12% of the world’s population. It does not work for the other 88% of the world’s population that is not European, whose labor capitalism exploits and whose resources capitalism steals.
    z is the man. I see you comrade, lol. Although, we need to differentiate between Communism and social!sm. Communism is the ideal end-goal, which hasn’t been achieved… but that’s normal–that’s the phase when the national/government apparatus withers away. Social!sm is the means to Commun!sm, and has been achieved in many countries (of course with contradictions and flaws, etc.)–you can’t call social!sm a failure when a sixth of the world’s population adheres to it in China alone. Again, with many contradictions/flaws, but with huge achievements as well (doubling the life expectancy, access to healthcare and education, and lifting 300 million people out of poverty).
    IMO the best example of what social!sm can achieve in a poor oppressed nation is Cuba. Social!sm has worked wonders in Cuba.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Lakeshow
    If you are familiar with both Islamic and Christian beliefs, you know that both religions, as part of the religions, say that to truly practice you must affirm a central belief that is at odds with the other religion.
    You can’t practice Islam or Christianity, as they have been created based on their holy texts, without eschewing this compromise.
    The only way you can accomplish this is by creating your own religion, with your own tenets and guidelines. If that’s what works for you, that’s what works for you, but that’s the reality.
    I’m not sure if you read my post, but I clearly pointed out that people can have differences in beliefs and still live harmoniously. You have mistakenly attributed that to their beliefs instead of attributing that to their humanity. You don’t have to hate people who disagree with you. You don’t have to murder them or discriminate against them. In fact, that’s at odds with many religions. However, humans LIKE doing these things. So they do them.
    DAN POWERS
    My view is based on human history, not the history of the West. Humans have been treating each other like crap since humans first jumped on the scene. Anyone who argues differently is either ignorant, or misguided. Sure, we can do good, but we balance that with extreme evil and it’s not because religion made us do it.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Teddy, I like your Cuban example, although the persistent racism against the darker members of that country and the desire of so many folks to escape every year does raise some interesting questions about whether Cubans would agree with your assessment.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    @ Allen: Cuba and other Latin American nations do have internal contradictions with regards to race–just one of many brilliant gifts of “civilization” the Europeans brought to the Americas. However, Castro like all real Marxists has always been 100% against racism. When he came to New York for a UN meeting (I think it was) in like 1960, most hotels shut him out, so he stayed in the Hotel Theresa in Harlem where he was welcomed by Malcolm X. I’m not downplaying race problems in Cuba but I think social!sm is much better equipped to tackle these problems than capitalism. I’ll admit I have to read more about these race issues in Cuba though.
    And the notion that Cubans are trying to “escape” is blown way out or proportion. Anti-Castro groups are fully funded by the CIA/US taxpayers. Cuban defectors are given government benefits not available to any other immigrant group to entice them to leave.
    And yes most Cubans would agree with my assessment, since Castro’s government still has huge mass support. If you’re going to ask why so many Cubans want to leave, I can just as easily ask why so many Cubans want to stay.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Good points. I don’t think Cuba is horrible and I definitely think communism hasn’t been given a fair shake since the US has worked tooth and nail to subvert and punish any country that’s tried to use it. That right there means it has some value.
    But have you ever read Richard Wright’s “Black Boy” or checked out some of the other black writing on the Communist movement in the Northeast and how it handled race. Not to mention the stuff you hear about the Soviets.
    From what I can tell, all that “Comrade” stuff is cool up to a point, then the same old human divisions kick in. Humans just can’t seem to shake it. Plus, the way communism failed, besides the chicanery of the US and its allies, was because people just don’t like all that sharing, or use that sharing as a way to get over.
    Doesn’t mean the intention doesn’t have merit, but the execution didn’t seem to account for basic truths about human beings.
    Basically, humans will always believe that some humans are more equal than others.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Someone had to create the religion at some point. So you are IMO following another persons tenets and guidelines. I know that this is your faith and you believe that these are God’s laws, and I will not demean your faith at all, but allow me to make some points from my view.
    .
    .
    .
    Islam, Judaism, etc. is a just different vein’s of the Abrahamic religions. To believe your religion is greater, I realize, is part of ‘the faith’, but you have to understand how absurd that looks to those of us that look at it from a historical count, and a physical point of view, and not a religious POV. It’s strange to see one religion become a dozen and each of them claiming their own as the ‘one true religion.’ Essentially they battle it out via word wars or physical wars.
    I’m not saying one should not have faith. What I am arguing is that if we truly break down the foundation that has transformed our minds from our impressionable youth; from that point you can see more clearly.
    Many people argue that at a time the world was harmonious and peaceful. Now this probably goes against your faith i’m sure, but as I have come to learn in research there was a much reduced ego at one point. Before religion and before the organized world we know of in our history books in school. Everyone wants ‘theirs’. Whether it be their religion. Their family. Their country. Their personal possessions… There is no community on the earth. IMO, not the only reason, but one of the big reasons is organized religion. Each religion gives ‘power’ over the earth to their followers. So followers of Islam, Christianity, Mormonism, etc. all feel they have a stake to claim on making an impression on the world through their faith. If people of all faiths would just recognize this fact, and thus by, not try to rule over one another, then we would be better off because we would no longer need to rule based upon a blue print that has been handed down for thousands of years saying we are to change everyone else.
    All this is of course my opinion, but would love to continue the conversation if it interests you, but I also understand it’s not easy to defend the faith to someone without it, and don’t want to put you in a position you don’t care to put yourself in.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvBC7tmgFFM Teddy-the-Bear

    While it’s true that humans have always fought each other, I don’t agree that the past is the same as the present. We’re living in a unique period of time. Due to 500 years of imperialism, the dominant form of exploitation is white supremacy. The Anglo-European empire is something not even the Romans could have dreamed of… Now blacks are oppressing blacks *on behalf* of white people, Asians are oppressing Asians *on behalf* of white people–in a nutshell, that’s what neo-colonialism is. The European imperialists no longer have to occupy a country militarily to control it–they now do, with banks/financiers/corporations, what the military used to do (and still does).
    And that’s another thing plaguing Western Commun!sts. They still view the world through the lens of the oppressor and not of the oppressed due to their own wh!teness. I think you’re conflating Western leftists with Global South (aka Third World) leftists. More on that in a second.
    But first, without the Soviet Union and communist countries, most of the liberation movements of former colonies in the mid-1900s wouldn’t have succeeded. The Soviet Union (and later China) was invaluable. It’s interesting to note that most people in Eastern Europe still prefer Commun!sm, now that they’ve tasted capital!sm again.
    The liberation movements to overthrow colonialism are HUGE material gains for mankind. Likewise the improvements to standard of living for people in China and Cuba are very real. For example, China’s poverty relief program is possibly the most successful in human history, as it literally lifted 300 million people out of poverty from the 1970s onward.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Lakeshow where is your proof that that people ever lived in harmony?
    All archaelogical research disagrees with this. Family structures were different, community structures were different, but humans have always fought over resources.
    Hunter and gatherer societies fought over resources, the first domestic societies fought amongst themselves and against outsiders. “Othering” has always been a popular human pastime.
    There is always a belief among those who do not subscribe to an organized religion that those who do believe cannot have examined what they believe critically. This is idiotic. Throughout recorded history, some of the foremost thinkers among human kind have been believers in one faith or another. Clearly, religion and intelligence can co-exist.
    Religion, just about all of hte world’s religions, are not about ruling. Most of them point towards a closer relationship with God, with small and large difference about how that relationship can be obtained. The atrocities committed in the name of religion were not, by and large, committed because of the religions, but because of human tendencies that were then justified using various religions.
    Humans are humans. This is not based solely on my reading of the Bible but on my observations of humans and various attitudes we tend to have about each other. We are animals at our core, and like all other animals we have certain impulses and instincts.
    Point me to this utopia, or even strife period, you believe existed. There is no historical reference for it, not in Western, Eastern or African history. Conflict is as human as breathing.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Also, Lakeshow if you consider the historical account, particularly using the holy texts of Christianity and Islam, it makes perfect sense.
    There is a clear dividing line between the two religions where no compromise on truth can be achieved. You could make the argument that no such line exists between Islam and Judaism, but when you throw Christianity into the mix, the line is clear.
    I can’t determine if you are unaware of where this line exists, or you have just chosen to believe it’s not that big a deal. Honestly, if you know anything about the three religions, it’s a HUGE deal.
    It’s like the dividing line between DMT and Crack, to go back to your earlier conversation.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvBC7tmgFFM Teddy-the-Bear

    @ Allen: The social!sm I support is rooted in the Global South and inextricably tied to anti-imperialism. While a lot of Western leftists claim to be anti-imperialist, their way of thinking is still deeply entrenched in European “universalist” ideals. I call it social-imperialism.
    Why do I say social!sm is the solution to racism? Because social!sm essentially means that black people are able to control their own destiny. Africa is really where anti-imperialist social!sm is most needed. Some of the best Marx!st revolutionary theoreticians were African, which makes sense, because it’s absolutely necessary for black people to overthrow capitalism and control their own resources and labor. That’s how you eliminate racism: by destroying white supremacy, i.e. removing this coercive, forced dependence upon white institutions. Not an easy task, considering their (the white Western world’s) entire way of life depends upon the subjugation of 88% of the world’s population.
    One example of Arabs and black Africans co-existing and thriving in a social!st environment was Libya. Zimbabwe today is another great example of black people taking control of their land and resources. Of course, Robert Mugabe is vilified like crazy by the Western media because he dares to break up the monopoly that wh!te Zimbabweans once had on land and resources.
    The main setback for social!sm has always been imperialism–i.e. Western subversion. In the span of a decade, I believe from 1960-1970, the US/Europe assassinated (or funded/supported the assassination of) 6 African leaders (i.e. the presidents or leaders of 6 different nations) all of them pan-African social!sts.
    I think you should watch a documentary on Youtube called “Thomas Sankara: The Upright Man.” It’s only about 50 minutes long… It talks about the former president of Burkina Faso (a former French colony), the achievements made under his Communist government, and his eventual overthrow by traitors/French collaborators. It’s a huge eye-opener. Please watch whenever you have time and lemme know what you think (just click my name).

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvBC7tmgFFM Teddy-the-Bear

    @ Allen: Doesn’t Islam accept/recognize Jesus as the messiah, just like Christianity? Can you explain?
    Also I don’t think religion is as divisive historically as people say. IMO religious conflicts are often a byproduct of racial/ethnic tension, not necessarily over differences in theology. I donno.

  • Allenp

    Nah Islam recognizes him as a.profit on a lower level than Muhammad. Muhammad is the highest profit who received the Koran through direct inspiration from an angel. Jesus was a profit and the Bible contains truths but has been corrupted where it is at odds with the Koran. That is one of the core Muslim tenets.
    Christianity says that Jesus is the Messiah and son of God and God incarnate in the flesh. Huge difference.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    He’s a Prophet in Islam Teddy. Not the “redeemer” as in Christianity.
    Allen, Where is your proof that God exists?
    I implied that as a theory and not fact, hence why I said “Many people argue.”
    Your speaking on what what wikipedia explains as history. I’m talking about unknown times. The time when the Sphinx in Egypt was originally built. The time they don’t tell you about in history class hence why there is no recorded history. This was about 10,000 years ago. Just before the Ice-Age. A time when you don’t think there were humans on the planet. So this is all in jest because as we have already spoken on the fact that each person holds certain things to them as truth. Whether it is fact or not is what remains to be discovered in most cases.
    I have more proof than you (IMO) for my theory of a peaceful time than you do for God being real. Sources (whether you like them or not is up to you) like the Bhagavad Gita speak on a completely peaceful time. I am speaking on peace as in there being no hatred between people, not as in a time of no war of course like Pax Romana and pax Britannica. Facts have lead some men (ie. Terrence McKenna) to believe that there was a time when man was virtually ego-less and thus peaceful. Terrence was one of those guys “who just likes to get high” though so you wouldn’t bother with him. So no point in going forward on that.
    Your speaking on all these battling prior humans and sub species. Yes. They did battle. That is man’s innate desire. To have his. To protect his. To FIGHT for his. What i’m saying is that at some point it was figured out how to reduce ones ego, or that there was no ego at a certain point. No longer was man looking to be better than another, but rather just do what was best for everyone. It’s not possible today because of the vast expanse of humans throughout the earth and all the things tearing the world apart. Be it (lack of)natural resources, religion, or cultural indifference or whatever.
    You said “There is always a belief among those who do not subscribe to an organized religion that those who do believe cannot have examined what they believe critically. This is idiotic. Throughout recorded history, some of the foremost thinkers among human kind have been believers in one faith or another. Clearly, religion and intelligence can co-exist.”
    Of course religion and intelligence can co-exist. I never implied otherwise. They were critical about light not being able to be contained and mathematics added up to strange conclusions, but not so concerned with being critical of the idea of God himself. Because of the lack of physical matter in spirituality as compared to what one can see and manipulate with his mind they tackled the “easier” subjects.
    I have believed fully in Biblical Christianity for 16+ years of my life, so I know what it’s like to “believe” and not “believe”. What I have learned is that you CANNOT critically view what you believe. Why? Because you believe it. (Bringing it all back around lol) I believed Kobe was the best player on the planet until last season. Truth be told, he probably wasn’t the best even a season or two before I realized. Now, obviously I truly thought Kobe was the best, otherwise I don’t know why else I would have believed he was. I was not thinking critically because I already believed. In order to be critical of God and Christianity or Islam or Judaism, or Buddhism you must not believe. Which would make one not a Christian or Muslim, or faithful Jew. So inherently one cannot truly believe and (doubt) be critical.
    I have read the Bible, and the apocryphal books that for some reason are not deemed good enough for today’s modern Bible. I have read parts of the Qumran, but not even a decent enough amount to act like I know much about it. Your right that Christianity is much different, but you cannot deny the fact they originated from the same patriarchs, and there is no clue as to which one is “right” more than another.
    What is the dividing fact that makes Christians and followers of Islam absolutely uncompromising? I’m curious. You said something in regards to religion not wanting to rule over everyone, then why so uncompromising? I’m assuming you mean the differences in how to hold one culturally which the Qumran speaks on elaborately.
    But scratch all that, how about Judaism vs Christianity. Both believe the same God, but one believes in Jesus as a redeemer coming to earth already, which makes them saved in their eyes and the Jews condemned for not believing Christ came. How can you tell them (the Jews) that they are wrong. They are God’s chosen people after all. What makes what you believe better, and therefore uncomprimise-able to you?
    .
    Crazy long day and don’t know if i’ll be back on. So we can banter about this later on another thread or come back here, or if your done that’s fine too, whatever works.

  • http://gmail.com z

    Just wanna say im really impressed with the knowledge and outside the box thinking of Teddy bear and allenp. Yall have always impressed me basketball wise; now i am impressed with your knowledge of social issues. Even danpowers made some interesting (not necessarily accurate) arguments. Teddy especially tho you have dropped my jaw with your points about euro-centrism, Cuba and in general your open minded approach to the few flaws but overwhelming benefits

  • http://gmail.com z

    Of communism. Allenp made some good points about some flaws to communism (or rather flaws inherent to ppl).

  • http://gmail.com z

    Islam/Christian dont HAVE to be at war (which lets be honest, they basically have been for at LEAST the last decade), but if they are more often than not, theres undeniable corruption to their very core in both religions at this point, and both are ancient religions (which only means the corruption is more thorough), then i wonder if these faiths are each more trouble than theyre worth at this point. Just my opinion

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvBC7tmgFFM Teddy-the-Bear

    Thanks a lot z, props to you too man.
    @ Lake, Allen: Not gonna add much to your debate but I do want to add that Islam definitely views Jesus Christ as the Messiah. The Jews do not, but Muslims definitely do. He is not just a prophet to them; during the final hour he does return, in the flesh, to kill the Dajjal (anti-Christ). The only difference is that they don’t view him as Allah in the flesh. They don’t believe that God could be born on the Earth as a human being, even as the Messiah. Now of course that’s a world of difference, but they definitely do view Jesus as the Messiah, as he’s the one who leads humans to the Last Judgement.

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