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Tuesday, August 28th, 2012 at 10:32 am  |  207 responses

Rajon Rondo Wants to Become Greatest Point Guard in Celtics History


by Eldon Khorshidi | @eldonadam

How good is Rajon Rondo? Coming off arguably the most memorable postseason of his career (you didn’t forget all those triple-doubles, did you?), the question has evolved from mild whispers into mainstream conversation. In terms of the current NBA landscape, you could make the case that Rondo is a top-2 point guard. He sets the tone of the ball game, possesses superior court vision, slithers into the lane at will, is fearless, has a contagious swagger, and most importantly, is just a flat-out winner. Rondo led the League in assists last year, and it’s crazy to think he led the Celtics all the way to the Final Four after they were largely dismissed a few seasons ago as being “too old.” It’s also telling when you look at Rondo’s résumé—take it for what it’s worth, but he’s won an NBA title, something Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Derrick Rose and Steve Nash can’t relate to. Shoot, those guys haven’t even been to the Finals.

Speaking to the media shortly after landing in the Philippines, Rondo, who has never lacked self-confidence, says he’s at a good place right now, but when it’s all said and done he has a bigger goal in mind: Rajon hopes to go down as the greatest point guard in Boston Celtics history.

More details, via Interaksyon.com:

Barely four hours after landing in Manila, NBA all-star guard Rajon Rondo took time to unwind at the Titan 22 barber shop at The Fort. He then went straight to scheduled business, talking to local media about, among other things, his place in Boston Celtics lore. “I hope I can end my career as the greatest point guard in the history of the Boston Celtics,” he said. He doesn’t know where he ranks just yet on the list of top lead guards in the history of the green and white, a lineup that includes all-time greats such as Bob Cousy, Jo Jo White, Nate Archibald, and Dennis Johnson, among others. Cousy was the first Celtics superstar, and was part of six titles with Boston. He pioneered behind the back dribbling, no-look passing, and other modern affectations during the early years of teh game. White, meanwhile, was the lead guard of memorable Boston championship teams in 1974 and 1976. He scored 33 points and nine assists in the Game Five of the 1976 Finals against the Phoenix Suns, a triple overtime game that is among the greatest in NBA history. Archibald was at the tailend of his brilliant career when he joined the Celtics, but helped the squad win the NBA title in 1981. Johnson, meanwhile, was the defensive demon who bolstered Boston’s backcourt in the 1980s. His memorable play perhaps came off a layup after a steal by Larry Bird against the Detroit Pistons in the Eastern Conference finals in 1987.

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  • Travis

    “Shoot, those guys haven’t even been to the finals” – Except for Westbrook. And it literally JUST happened.

  • Zabbah

    Yeah, and monkeys might fly out of my butt.

  • Zabbah

    “Rondo, who has never lacked self-confidence”
    Can anyone dig up that article about KG admitting Rondo’s confidence in his shot went drastically down after President Obama told Ray Allen to teach that kid how to shoot.

  • Fat Lever

    He’s certainly on the right track. In terms of pure point guards, it’s him and CP3, and that’s it for me. This year will be an interesting one, because the C’s will rely on him more than ever. All the talk of him playing with 4 HOFer’s and of course he would succeed, in hindsight, is looking real silly.

  • Max

    How do I upload a picture?

  • http://twitter.com/niQknacks niQ

    When you click in the text box, there’s a small picture under “Leave a message..” Just click that and upload.

  • Max

    Thanks.

  • Eldon Khorshidi

    Oops!

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    In fairness, Rondo went to the Finals with a younger KG, Ray Allen and Paul Pierce. Let’s not act like he was the player he is now on that 07-08 Finals team. The article makes it seem like he was the best player on that team and Rose, Paul and the other PGs have failed in comparison to him. Rose, as a rookie, played Rondo in the playoffs to a stalemate on both ends of the floor.

  • bike

    Who is in his way…KC Jones, Cousy…sure, could happen. Probably needs to remain a Celtic for the rest of his career.

  • Dagger

    Maybe the best PG in the league when the playoffs start. But he has to mind his attitude if he wants to finish his career as a Celtic.

  • Dagger
  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Deron Williams is also more of a pure PG.

  • Max

    Wait, I meant the profile pic thingy.

  • Junior Taylor

    I don’t see why he can’t be considered better than a guy that shot 37% from the field for his career (Cousy)

  • alex80

    Rajwan, U already the Best Celtic PG

  • http://www.facebook.com/james.guevarra.37 James Guevarra

    yeah except for westbrook but may i ask you how many times did russwess get to the finals and then compare it with rondo…and yah playoffs too…it’s all about the experience men…

  • http://twitter.com/_DFrance DFrance

    Than Rondo? No way. Deron is a better overall player and scorer for sure, but he’s not better than Rondo at setting up his teammates.

  • http://twitter.com/_DFrance DFrance

    Numbers wise he can do it, but many old school Celt fans won’t ever put him over Cousy.

  • Rik Smits Mullet

    must agree. rondo is more of a pure point guard.

  • catpoop

    uhhh rondo outplayed rose when rose was a rookie. rondo averaged a triple double in that series.

  • catpoop

    did you see rondo last year? are you just dumb or blind? 17pg 7rpgs 12apg. stfu

  • onlytheflyest

    Rondo is Top 3 point guard in the league easily.

  • http://www.reverbnation.com/savagemuzicgroup T-Ray

    I don’t see how it’s that farfetched to be honest. He’s put up crazy numbers so far in his career and he has been one of the top players in the playoffs for the past 3 years.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    click your name, then go to the edit profile option when you click on the thumbnail on the right of your name

  • 1982

    I can see it. He’s got the game.

  • Kadavour

    if Rondo could shoot, he’d be the out-right best PG in the league. He can do everything the other guys can, just as well or a little better, except his glaring deficiencies as a shooter. I’d say Deron Williams’ back to the basket a la Magic and Mark Jackson is about the only facet Rondo doesn’t really have.

  • Caboose

    Just because he steps his game up in the Playoffs doesn’t mean you can discount regular season. Otherwise Manu Ginobili could be considered the greatest SG ever for the Spurs. Is Rondo good? Absolutely. I still want to see what he does when he actually has to become a scorer throughout the regular season (like every other elite point guard in the league).

  • chingy

    A few things…need maybe a couple more rings and need to see how he does as the undisputed #1 option on offense

  • Junior Taylor

    I guess we are in different times when a PG is judged by how many points he scores not his assists numbers.

  • Caboose

    Of course not, all I’m saying is that it’s hard to anoint a player as one of the best point guards in the league when he’s yet to crack 14 ppg. And that free throw percentage. We all jump on Blake and Dwight for having roughly the same ugly number as Rondo, but RR gets a pass here.

  • http://twitter.com/niQknacks niQ

    To be honest, Rondo surprised me this year in the playoffs. It was almost as if he took all the criticism (ie: what he couldn’t do) and just did it. I’m not sleeping on him.

  • http://www.newyorkshockexchange.com/content/view/424/37/ Shock Exchange

    If the Shock Exchange had to go into surgery and had two surgeons to choose from … give me the guy “who’s done it before.” In the finals, the Shock Exchange would take Rondo over any PG in the L. He’s “done it before” and has now taken over the mantle in Boston from Pierce and KG. However, he will only behind the 3rd best athlete out of Louisville – #1 Muhammad Ali and #2 Paul Hornung.

  • RKJ92

    You make a good point. But your still a loser. And you going into surgery id give you roko ukic..

  • http://www.newyorkshockexchange.com/content/view/424/37/ Shock Exchange

    RKJ92 Why the vitriol? Nas said “‘hate’ is admiration in disguise.” No?

  • Caboose

    “Hate is confused admiration.” But close enough, I guess.

  • Nicolas Fleming

    Remember when Gilbert Arenas called himself a “pure” point guard. That was a fun day.

  • http://www.newyorkshockexchange.com/content/view/424/37/ Shock Exchange

    Caboose, you oughta change your name to the “Answer.” “Whatever your sports question …. Caboose has the Answer.” LOL.

  • http://www.facebook.com/deonte.devon Deonte’ VyvidVee Hargrave

    agreed, but most of the old celtics fans, are starting to get REALLY old anyway…they are dwindling in numbers haha :p

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    this is my favorite comment of the new system.

  • LakeShow

    How good he is depends on what team he is on. The Celtics make him look good. That’s all i’m saying. Rondo wouldn’t carry a group of mediocre players, of that I am sure. He’s top 3 in terms of PG skills. I have him outside my top 5 PG’s in terms of overall basketball skills.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    obviously it’s about his PPG and APG, and everything else. he’s just not a complete player. But he is still a top 5 PG.

  • Max

    Got it.

  • LakeShow

    Steve Nash?

  • RKJ92

    Waste mannnn.. -.-

  • http://www.facebook.com/deonte.devon Deonte’ VyvidVee Hargrave

    Rondo could easily do it, I have him as the number 1 or 2 pure POINT GUARD in the NBA, and when you consider a player to be obligated to know and play his position well, nobody is better than him and cp3, outstanding defensive minded, pass first type of PGs, but wont shy away from the pressures to score when they have to.

    That being said, I believe D.Rose and Deron Williams, might be better players than those two, just not better pgs….even though that’s irrelevant.

    Rondo could easily become the best celtic pg ever, especially now that his team has just gotten better and a little younger.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    skills and performance are different though. if you were asked to rank your top 5 PG’s in terms of what they do during games, are you saying Rondo isn’t there?

  • http://www.newyorkshockexchange.com/content/view/424/37/ Shock Exchange

    The Shock Exchange hears local neighborhood refers to you as RK_92 because you have no “J”

  • manu

    chris paul is overrated always has been….dwill vs cp3 head 2 head dwill kicks his ass every time

  • Caboose

    Top 5? Yeah, as of now, I’ll agree with that.

  • http://twitter.com/AjpDos Allen Powell

    What skill besides shooting does he lack?

  • Caboose

    It’s comments like this that make me love the voting system.

  • Junior Taylor

    Lake, I guess Kidd was never a Top-5 PG during his Prime.

  • http://twitter.com/AjpDos Allen Powell

    Jtaylor always acts like scoring guards haven’t been around. Points have always been a big deal. That’s why John Stockton was never an MVP on his own, and Maurice Cheeks is underrated. You have to score.

  • LakeShow

    “as of now” being the key term.
    Kyrie gunning for a top 5 spot.
    If John Wall improves even slightly he’s nudging Rondo.

  • Caboose

    Everybody always likes to predict (since about 2007) that Nash will start severely dropping off in production next season. Hasn’t happened yet, but we still apply that logic to purest PG discussions.

  • Caboose

    Can’t wait to see Rubio edge in on that conversation too. Westbrook needs to up his assists to stay in that group.

  • Caboose

    Even Stockton scored 17 ppg in 3 straight seasons. I wonder if Rondo could even do that. (And Stock averaged like 13.5 assists in those seasons too)

  • LakeShow

    Jason Kidd was a level above Rondo all around. Better rebounder. Equal play maker. Stronger, taller, better shooter, more versatile defender.
    So Jason Kidd was better, so yes he was a top 5 PG. Easily. Rondo arguably is too. I ain’t hating, but I think there’s a couple guys on his heals right now is what i’m saying.

  • LakeShow

    Rondo is definitely top 5 in those terms nbk. Because the Celtics have built their offense with his strengths and weaknesses in mind. Garnett=Shooter, Allen=Shooter, Pierce=play making/shooter. Rondo is built to do well with the Celtics. Top 4 or 5 in those terms for sure.

  • LakeShow

    Understood, BUT… you know the BUT. lol

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    ok cool, just wanted to make sure you haven’t gone off the Rondo deep end. i totally agree with that.

  • LakeShow

    Agreed on that. Rubio is as fun as any PG to watch IMO. Reminds me of J-Kidd in his younger years. Sorry if that comparison pisses anyone off haha. Their different and J-Kidd was better by a wide margin, but the similarities are there.

  • Junior Taylor

    To be honest, Rondo was the 2nd best PG (behind CP and ahead of DWill) last season in terms of on-the-court production and is a Top-3 PG going into the season (given that Rose is hurt). It is just that people refuse to give the man his just due given the talent surrounding him and his game isn’t aesthetically pleasing to most fans.

  • ALD

    He can but he must devolop a jumpshot because his HOF buddies are retiring soon. Plus it is going to be harder now in the Atlantic division

  • http://twitter.com/AjpDos Allen Powell

    I think if Boston played at Utah’s pace Rondo could score 17 a game. The Celtics slow everything down which keeps everyone’s scoring numbers down.

  • http://www.reverbnation.com/savagemuzicgroup T-Ray

    Random but I saw you followed me on Disquis nbk how do I follow back?

  • http://twitter.com/AjpDos Allen Powell

    I said dude would be similar to JKidd before he came to the League. Unfortunately for him he lacks Kidd’s top end athletic ability, and he even lacks his shooting touch.

  • http://twitter.com/SUSPECTINT44 TedBurner

    Rondo is tough man. I used to sleep on dude cuz as a Laker fan I dont like to give any celts credit but he made me a believer this yr. The improved confidence in shooting the J is his key. I say he’s top 4 in the L imo as far as all around impact.

  • http://twitter.com/AjpDos Allen Powell

    The term “pure point guard” is such a misnomer. Look at Rondo’s numbers versus Deron’s assist numbers. Then consider who Rondo has been passing to and who Deron has been passing to. Bottom line, Deron might not be Rondo’s equal as a passer, but he is equally as willing to pass. He is pure. Rondo is top 5 easily, and potentially number 3 if Derrick Rose’s knee is messed up.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    just click the user name of whoever you want to follow my dood, then you can just click follow next to their name

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    I didn’t mean he was more of a pure PG than Rondo. I meant that he belongs in that category with CP3 and Rondo. As far as setting up his teammates, he’s not too far behind Rondo.

  • http://www.reverbnation.com/savagemuzicgroup T-Ray

    Ah gotcha man thanks

  • LakeShow

    It’s debatable if he had a better season that Russ Westbrook and Tony Parker.

  • http://twitter.com/AjpDos Allen Powell

    It’s tough to say that he was better than Dwill based on his production on the court. His assists were impressive, no doubt but he only averaged 11.6 points per game on 44-45 percent shooting. Deron, in comparison, averaged 22 points per game on 40 percent shooting and chipped in 8 assists. To me, Deron produced more.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    You’re only going by stats. Impact-wise, Rose wasn’t really outplayed. Plus, if we’re going to use stats, Rose averaged 20, 6 and 6 and shot 50% from the field. Rondo was in his 3rd season.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Uhh…Rondo has only been to the Finals twice and only the 2nd time was he one of the best players on the team. The first go around, he was just the 4th wheel. You’re asking how many times Russell got to the Finals as if he’s been in the league for a while lol. Only been 4 seasons. Getting there as the 2nd best player on your team in your 4th season isn’t that bad to me.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Truth.

  • chingy

    change “last season” to “last playoffs” and you’re on point. Rondo during the season isn’t always motivated to go triple-double crazy.

  • Guest

    It will be interesting to see how Rondo’s game changes or if it changes after KG and Paul leave.

  • http://www.newyorkshockexchange.com/content/view/424/37/ Shock Exchange

    That would be very “uninteresting” to see … everybody daring Rondo to shoot, being that he has noone to pass it to.

  • Drig

    During the season, CP3 and TP had clearly better seasons than Rondo only because Rondo didn’t turn it up till near the end of the regular season. If you’re talking about the Playoffs, he was IMO the best PG.

  • Junior Taylor

    Y’all know me by now, I have never been a huge fan of inefficient players. Rondo’s 45% is not necessarily efficient but it was significantly better than DWill’s 40%. Add that with Rondo grabbing 1.4 more RPG, dishing close to 3 more APG coupled with being the best player on a team that took that Champs to 7 games, I believe Rondo had the better season.

  • Caboose

    What do you see LA’s stats looking like?
    Nash: 12-2-9
    Kobe: 22-4-5
    Metta: 10-4-2
    Pau: 20-8
    Dwight: 20-14

  • LakeShow

    People like to lump scoring in with shooting, but there’s allot going on on the offensive end than shooting. Rondo doesn’t have any offense to speak of what-so-ever. He has no moves offensively besides ball handling skills to get himself open and in the lanes. He isn’t terrible at converting at the rim, but for a guard who has no jump shot at all, you have to be able to finish with the best of them. Tony Parker has a decent jump shot but no 3 pointer, but he can finish at the hoop with the best in basketball. Rondo can’t. Rondo can’t score effectively or efficiently.
    None of that should take away from the immense skill set he has, but to say he he doesn’t shoot well, or that his offense leaves much to be desired, that is a massive understatement.

  • LakeShow

    ^What that means is that he has every skill in the book practically, besides anything scoring related.

  • http://twitter.com/AjpDos Allen Powell

    He had the better playoffs. Deron played on a team where he was forced to carry the scoring load from the point guard position. Break down his shooting numbers. He shot about 11 two pointers a game and 6 threes. He only made 2 threes a game. That means, he made 5 of his 11 two pointers. Basically he shot his standard 45 percent from the field, but killed his percentage by shooting more long threes. That makes sense given the talent around him and his desire to avoid injury by not constantly driving to the rim. Don’t forget Deron shot 84 percent from the free throw line while Rondo shot 59 percent.
    Basically, you’re only judging efficiency on field goal percentage and not considering all the other variables that go into efficiency. And you’re overvaluing what Rondo did in the playoffs.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    How many people differentiate between so-called pure PGs and other PGs? Waste of time to me. Folks say Rose and Westbrook are great players playing the PG position but Rondo is a great PG. There are aspects of each player’s game that are better than others. You can’t knock Deron, Russell or Derrick for how much they score. Magic Johnson averaged 19 points for his career. How much does a player have to score before he’s labeled a scoring PG? Who would consider Magic a pure PG? Tough call to make. PGs who score almost 20 a game today would be called scoring PGs.

  • http://twitter.com/AjpDos Allen Powell

    Nah, you’re wrong about his ability to convert at the rim. Two years ago I would have agreed with you, but he became much better at layup this year. Plus, he is the master of getting into the lane and creating open looks for the rest of the team. He creates offense even if he doesn’t score. It would just be much better if he could score.

  • LakeShow

    You gotta quit looking into FG% so much Taylor. It’s deceiving when you take a scoring player who was the one player the other team tried to stop most(D-Will) to the other, being a non scoring player and on a team of scorers. (Rondo)

    Different offensive scenarios. Is D-Will a Rondo a better scorer and shooter?
    Is it close?
    But D-Will is less efficient?
    So what…
    He is by far and away better offensively.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Deron Williams effective FG % – .467%
    Rajon Rondo effective FG % – .456%
    Deron was still the more efficient scorer. Simply because he hits 3′s and makes his free throws.

  • Comment_System

    man, your ass is gonna hurt…

  • Junior Taylor

    I don’t think it is overvaluing when the guy had 4 triple doubles in one playoff run (more than most of the top PGs today have in their career)

  • Junior Taylor

    Both of y’all are right. I tend to gloss over EFG% and focus simply on FG%. It is a terrible and lazy way to look at efficiency, my fault.

  • LakeShow

    Artest will be below 5PPG. Love the dude, but he is there to shoot 1 or 2 threes, and the rest of the time looking to D it up as hard as he can. His numbers will not show his impact as far as basic stats go. He will still get his 1 steal per though.
    Nash you got him pegged pretty well from my assumptions. It’s hard to say if his scoring will dip or go up. Less offense needed from him, but more outside shooting needed from him. His FG% should go down somewhat across the board minus FT’s.
    Pau and Dwight I think you got right also. 20ish points each.
    Pau I do see still getting his 10 boards though. He’s under rated on the boards even with the 2nd best rebounder in basketball next to him now he will get his 10 per. Dwights will probably dip into the 13′s but I see his BPG being over or right around 3 per.
    Kobe is hard to guess with, but I see him at 24 PPG, 5 boards, 5 assists. maybe a hair under on one of those. I really, really, want the boyoh to up his FG% to at least 46%. It’s not needed IMO to have him at or around 50%. He has never shot that high and he obviously can win while not shooting a traditionally high scoring FG%.
    Kobe’s MPG might go down quite a bit. He was at 38MPG last year. I see him at no more than 35MPG. Nash at 33MPG.
    Dwight at 39MPG.
    Pau at 33MPG.
    Artest 18MPG.

  • RKJ92

    I would clown you on the court. All day everyday. #JISMONEY

  • http://www.newyorkshockexchange.com/content/view/424/37/ Shock Exchange

    Pick a park _ISMONEY

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Anthony-Washington/100000105632561 Anthony Washington

    You have to admire rondo’s unwavering confidence and drive, something necessary for an elite point guard. I just have one question, if westbrook made this same statement how would we respond? I feel like him cp3 and rondo are the most outspokien aggressive Pgs right now.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i honestly didn’t even think Williams would be more efficient until i looked. — and Rondo was really great for the second half of the year, but only pretty good the first portion. – i personally think Rondo was the 2nd best if not the best PG in the NBA for the last couple months. no stress.

  • LakeShow

    FG% is deceiving just as all simple stats are in general if you just look at them in no context at all.

  • LakeShow

    I never said he couldn’t create offense for others. That’s why he is even in a discussion for top 5 PG is because of his ability to create for others, but he can’t create for himself. He can, but it’s useless because he has no offensive moves and is a horrible jump shooter. I’ll have to look up the advance stats on his converting at the rim. Like I said he is not horrible at that like Brandon Jennings, but he needs to be elite if he is never going to get a jump shot and still be considered in the top 5 PG’s.

  • LakeShow

    Definitely lacks the athleticism. That may not hamper him as much as it may seem though. He still appears to be an elite play maker, solid rebounder and defender. His shot looks better than J-Kidds ever did, but that doesn’t mean a whole lot.
    He may be able to improve into a better shooter than J-Kidd(3rd all time 3 point list?) because he has the right mechanics. All a bunch of “if’s, and’s and but’s” right now though.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    idk, i consider Rose a pure PG as much as i do Rondo, or Williams, or Paul. All of them are PG’s through and through, have been playing the position their whole basketball lives. In contrast, I don’t consider Westbrook a “pure point guard” because he really doesn’t run the position, or seem to even understand what his responsibilities are at the position even though he’s a great player with as much talent as anyone else.

  • peak_fly

    rondo is not top 2. he’s good don’t get me wrong but the fact that he cant shoot free throws and he has no jumper. definitely takes him out of top 2

  • Nicolas Fleming

    100 comments in August. This new commenting system works.

  • http://twitter.com/AjpDos Allen Powell

    Knew I could count on NBK to pull out the stat that reinforced what I knew with my eyes and standard stats.

  • http://twitter.com/AjpDos Allen Powell

    If he played better during the season they would have likely had a higher seed and might have won that series.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Gilbert/100001749589586 Mike Gilbert

    when did they mention Westbrook? oh yes they didn’t

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Gilbert/100001749589586 Mike Gilbert

    All he needs to do is develop a little more consistency. He’ll go 15 10 and 10 and then the next night fire a blank.

  • http://twitter.com/AjpDos Allen Powell

    Well I think he has the ability to manufacture points, just not on jumpers. Against the Heat, one of the best defenses in the League, he regularly manufactured buckets.

  • shutup

    Thank you, why is it Tony Parker is overlooked in every point guard conversation, he was arguably the third best player in the league last year, and finished fourth in MVP voting, and personally I believe he should have been ahead of CP3 in the voting (best regular season record and all)

  • http://twitter.com/AjpDos Allen Powell

    Kidd always shot with more confidence, a huge part of shooting. He just didn’t put in the time in the gym, which he admitted later in his career. Rubio’s entire shot falls apart randomly, Kidd didn’t have that problem.

  • http://twitter.com/AjpDos Allen Powell

    Most players drop off gradually and then all of sudden it looks like they’ve fallen off a cliff.

  • Fat Lever

    Pure PG to me is some of the intangibles as well. How do you measure tempo control? What about making the right pass to the right guy in his spot(which may not always lead to an assist)? Things like that are where I think Rondo has the edge of Deron.

  • BlackPhantom

    Outside of your Top 5?? Wow, that’s pretty interesting.

  • LakeShow

    He also missed a ton of wide open and what I would consider for most players “easy buckets.”
    He had a real good series against them, but 17 points on 45% shooting would be nothing to write home about with CP3 or D-Will or Westbrook or D-Rose or Nash or…
    Where he does his damage is his game orchestrating play which is invaluable. I give him all the credit in the world for being able to do what only the best PG’s in the L can do, but he has a gaping major flaw in my eyes. That’s his lack of scoring and shooting ability. Those are what keep him on the outside looking in for me.

  • http://twitter.com/AjpDos Allen Powell

    When it comes to making an assist, I agree. But I think of a pure point as having game control. That means you know when to pass and when the team is better served by you shooting. In the playoffs Rondo balanced that incredibly, but during the season and in past years he’s sucked at it often. He passes up good shots to make forced passes in my opinion. Deron runs a team in total equally as well as Rondo. He doesn’t pass as well, no one does honestly, but the way he can be a dual threat is very important.

  • LakeShow

    Top players at the PG Position:
    Paul
    Williams
    Westbrook
    Rose (if 90% of what he use to be)
    Irving
    Parker
    Rondo

    Yes, I think Irving will be this good next year.

    Best PG’s in the L:
    Paul
    Williams
    Rondo
    Nash
    Rose
    John Wall
    Rubio
    Kyle Lowry

    I’m just being dumb and differentiating between over all basketball players and players who play PG the best.

  • LakeShow

    True…
    He still has better overall form.
    I could see him becoming a better shooter than J-Kidd. It’s like looking in a Chrystal ball at his point though. We have no clue, but his mechanics are there from what I have seen.

  • BlackPhantom

    Wow, man. I like Kyrie Irving too, but I don’t think he’ll be better than Tony Parker nor Rajon Rondo next year, it’ll take him more than one year to get that level of point guard production.

  • LakeShow

    Your smarter than me. I’m going down that D-Rose MVP outta no where road with Irving. He got skills. I can’t doubt him.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    totally cosign this. Rondo passes just as well as Deron, but he’s like a starving artist who tries to create an assist at every opportunity. Deron takes them where he can get them, but he won’t hurt his production to create one. idk who is more “pure” between the two, but i totally agree with Allen’s classification of the term.

  • Caboose

    PG stat predictions for next year:
    Paul: 19-4-10
    Deron: 20-3-11
    Rondo: 14-6-11
    Parker: 21-3-7
    Westbrook: 24-4-6
    Irving: 23-3-6
    Wall: 19-5-9
    Rubio: 12-6-10
    Rose: No idea
    (These aren’t in a ranked order)

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Nash – 13 – 2 – 10
    Kobe – 24 – 4 – 4
    Metta – 7 – 3 – 2
    Pau – 18 – 8
    Dwight – 22 – 14 (18 – 12 if it takes him till 2013 to get healthy)

  • chingy

    6 boards for Rubio might be a bit high. And I can see Westbrook avg a few more points. Otherwise, on point.

  • chingy

    Wonder how they’re going to enforce “SLAMonline Discussion Rules”

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    it’s through disqus, who have their own set of rules i’m sure.

  • chingy

    Say goodbye to your troll :)

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    well the one with the name “nbk troll” he’ll probably come back with that name if he doesn’t have one registered with disqus. the actual troll stopped his stuff a couple weeks ago

  • http://twitter.com/_DFrance DFrance

    Haha, true true. They won’t matter soon. Lol

  • Redd

    So by no idea, u mean you couldn’t even fathom the astronomical stats Rose will pull off? Lol.

  • Rainman

    i like this, this seems even better than the list above. Nash has gotta be in that Pure point guard discussion. He’s the purest PG since J-Kidd was in his prime. Or maybe purest since John Stockton even.

  • Rainman

    im trying to understand, im not bashing. But u look into fg% so much, how come D-will gets a pass for shooting 40% shooting.

  • Feez_22

    In order for rondo to become the best PG in celtics history, he’s going to have to attain a jumpshot. now i know people will point to a few games and advanced stats but dude isn’t a threat shooting the ball. all the rest of the good PGs in the league are. i remember when parker had a crappy midrange shot… he worked on it and became good at it. Rondo somehow needs to try that. Sucks that his shooting flaws were not corrected at the high school level. He played with josh smith at oak hill… go figue

  • SeanMagicJuan

    You can’t say “only two” when talking Finals.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Two is only one more than one. Saying Rondo has been to two compared to Westbrook’s one isn’t a lot to talk about.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    That’s interesting because a lot of people would say Rose is a “scoring PG”. I think Russell is just a creator in the vein of Iverson. Can play the point or the two but either way, he’s an attacker. That’s all he knows which works for the Thunder who only have two other guys who can score consistently besides him. He’s learning the position more and more each season. Even with his flaws, being All-NBA and doing what he’s done in four years isn’t bad.

  • airs

    im only commenting on this to see if i have any stats, sh*ts wild son.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Is Rose’s 25 and 8 average in his MVP season equal to Rondo’s 12 and 12 this past season in terms of effectiveness? I ask because it seems as if most people prefer the traditional point as if they are more valuable and talk down on “scoring PGs” because they may have more of an urge to score at times instead of pass. Just wondering what you all think. I have a hard time saying 12 and 12 is better than 25 and 8. Think about Chris and Deron, guys who are capable of 20 and 10 a night. Not to discredit Rondo and what he does. What do you guys think? Also, the fact that there are so many PGs to talk about is great for the game.

  • airs

    okay, how does this work.

  • Slick Ric

    Rondo has won a title but the guy who wrote this needs to calm down ……chances are, they would of won it without him that year. He made some plays but his main plays were getting the ball to the big three and getting the hell out of the way.

  • Slick ric

    There you go Manu…….

  • Redd

    Well his 12 APG wasn’t all him, it was the big three but I don’t dare discredit Rondo’s affinity for passing. Dude is a great PG in the traditional sense BUT don’t dare think it’s not credited to playing with the big 3, he now has the confidence and experience to be that dominate in a traditional manner.

  • Redd

    Seriously airs..? You’re still lost man? Lol.

  • 20folife

    I know you won’t probably won’t take the time to read this. But I’m a yung rapper who…………wait. this isn’t youtube. MY BAD!!!

  • 20folife

    Is it too soon to predict rondo being top 3 all time assists leader when he’s done??

  • G-PAK4

    Haattttteeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrr

  • Mitt Robbedme

    If Rondo can be consistent as far as energy on a nightly bases, then it’s possible.

  • Enigmatic

    So how does this new commenting work tho?

  • Enigmatic

    Oh, like that. Dope.

  • The Seed

    He will go down as the greatest Celtic point guard ever. Also I truly believe he will be a top 15 pg all time. Just wait and for those who think just because he played with Pierce, Garnett or Allen don’t understand basketball.

  • errday

    the post-Jesus Celtics, I think Rondo’s going to play a lot better in the regular season, so many of the plays both early and late in game were just waiting for Ray to come off 35 screens and shoot a contested jumper. Sure it was pretty but it killed the flow of the game a lot of the time as well, especially when he started his post-season slump.

  • Redd

    Enig, the Bulls fan?

  • Redd

    Derrick Rose doesn’t need stats to prove he’s the best PG, he has a Malcolm X tattoo.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Can’t deny the fact that he’s benefited from having Hall of Fame teammates who have played a major part in his success. He’s become a great player, sure. But to say that those who point out the fact that he’s had great teammates somehow don’t understand basketball is crazy if that’s what you’re saying. What should be understood is he was slightly above average when they won a championship. Since then he’s gotten better every season and he’s now a top 5 PG. Will he become the best Celtics PG ever? No one can say until his career is over. The most important years of his career will be after KG and Pierce are gone. Then we’ll really get to see what he’s truly made of as the leader and best player on the team.

  • danpowers

    that would only be the case if he had a martin luther king tat

  • errday

    Got to remember as well that unless he got an assist, a breakaway or an extremely open look, Rondo was hoisting a prayer/contested fade/awkward layup at the end of the shot clock. Rarely was he the intended shot-taker in any given play.

    As for Deron, he took a lot of shots and missed a hell of a lot because who the hell else was going to make their own shot on that team.

    FG percentage really misses the context of shots and shouldn’t be included so much in PG debates IMHO. /rant

  • errday

    I have no idea how you can say that a triple-double is “just looking at stats”. Nobody ever gets one by not impacting a game significantly. Rose was also the teams first choice on offense, Rondo needed to share the pill evenly and sufficiently to three superstars WHILE getting his own.

  • errday

    Did you see him in the playoffs? Dude’s J is fine, just needs confidence behind it.

  • Redd

    Nah, Shabazz Muhammad over every!

  • Enigmatic

    Yup. That’s the one.

  • Enigmatic

    Yup. That’s the one.

  • Venus Doom

    DAMON Williams is a ball hog (in reference to Damon Stoudamire, another ball hog PG); a shoot first SG parading as a PG. And he’s an ingrate who back stabbed his coach just because he wants to run the team the way he wanted it. The Sloan-slayer who forced the HOF mentor, coach to HOFers Stockton and Malone to retire, thinking that management would favor but ended up getting traded in what now seems to be a perennial rebuilding team with him as the franchise chip on the shoulders of his billionnaire owner. My prediction and hope, he won’t win any championship title in his NBA career. “Willing to pass” does not count as an assist. Fat Lever is right, pure PG’s also consider the intangibles – game tempo, timing when to pass, who to pass, when not to pass and most importantly leadership – taking control of the game. Rajon Rondo , on the other hand IS IN THE POSITION right now to become the greatest PG in Celtics history. He’s playing in the perfect system that would enable him to be like that. Plus he’s got the support of his coach and his veteran team mates despite the never-ending bait for trade talks by short-sighted GM Danny Ainge. Something Damon and the rest are still working on.

  • Venus Doom

    DAMON Williams is a ball hog (in reference to Damon Stoudamire, another ball hog PG); a shoot first SG parading as a PG. And he’s an ingrate who back stabbed his coach just because he wants to run the team the way he wanted it. The Sloan-slayer who forced the HOF mentor, coach to HOFers Stockton and Malone to retire, thinking that management would favor but ended up getting traded in what now seems to be a perennial rebuilding team with him as the franchise chip on the shoulders of his billionnaire owner. My prediction and hope, he won’t win any championship title in his NBA career. “Willing to pass” does not count as an assist. Fat Lever is right, pure PG’s also consider the intangibles – game tempo, timing when to pass, who to pass, when not to pass and most importantly leadership – taking control of the game. Rajon Rondo , on the other hand IS IN THE POSITION right now to become the greatest PG in Celtics history. He’s playing in the perfect system that would enable him to be like that. Plus he’s got the support of his coach and his veteran team mates despite the never-ending bait for trade talks by short-sighted GM Danny Ainge. Something Damon and the rest are still working on.

  • Venus Doom

    As I’ve mentioned earlier, Deron is a ball hog SG parading as a PG. He just so happens he can handle the ball as a PG but I bet you he’d rather just shoot. But since he wants the ball that much, he’d rather have it the moment it’s in their possession to give himself the first chance to shoot it. He had better offensive players in Utah but still shot more than the closer, higher percentage shots coming from Big Al, Millsap and even AK-47. And here’s what separates them, Rajon Rondo is a winner, would stop at nothing to win and will fight to win amidst all adversities and injuries. You would want your PG to be like that.

  • Redd

    Oh snap, thought u went extinct. U back for good?

  • TNDO

    I can’t put him in the top 5 he is a beast inte lane and can drive at will but a point
    But a top 5 in this day you gotta be able to shoot just ask Toby he learned
    Until then cp3 is a better point and cp3 has been on OK teams rondo has played with hall of famers tell me that doesn’t help you grow.

  • Shifty

    Oh you mean the big three of of the ticket, PP34 and who? because Ray Allen didn’t play alot of those games.

  • Redd

    He played half & last I checked 14 pts. & .458 doesn’t change that he was scoring.

  • http://twitter.com/ec_lkhaa Will Lee

    i think he already is to be honest. He’s the most exciting and special ever, he won a chip. And he’s talking about Celtics PG, not ever.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Stop watching basketball now. Deron Williams is a shoot first SG parading as a PG? Just stop. Now. Also, no need to disrespect Mighty Mouse.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    By the way, most shooting guards are shoot first…which is why they’re shooting guards.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Why would you show how ridiculous you can be twice? You won’t find another person here who will agree with you on Deron Williams being a ball hog or a shooting guard..mainly because the man has averaged 19 and 10 for the past few seasons and has never been a shooting guard in his life. Ballhogs routinely get 10 assists a game though, right? Rondo is a winner, how? Because he has a championship? So Steve Nash isn’t a winner? Jason Kidd wasn’t a winner until last season? Either you have a strange lovefest with Rondo that borders on insanity or your feelings got hurt after Jerry Sloan resigned.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Impact isn’t measured by stats alone even if its a triple double. Rose’s importance on that Bulls team was equal to Rondo’s importance. Also, Rose wasn’t the first option at all times..Ben Gordon shared those duties.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    I don’t think you can ask too much of Rose if he even plays in the upcoming season. If he does, I wouldn’t go any further than 15 and 5, somewhere around there. No need to put any pressure on him at all coming back in season 1 after an ACL tear. Season two is when we’ll be able to see how he’ll truly be.

  • errday

    Rose was always the first choice unless Ben Gordon was hot, regrettably he was hot for a lot of that series.

  • Caboose

    Another comment that makes me love the voting system.

  • fruizm

    youre the real chingy, arent you??

  • Cluna

    Rondo is the best pure pg in the game. Nuff said

  • Slick Ric

    Hating or the truth? was he not just giving the ball to them and getting out of the way? Him and perkins were looked at as offensive liabilities that first season of the big three.

  • Caboose

    Did you post on SLAM before the new system? Cause I don’t recognize your name but you’ve had nothing but good stuff to say lately.

  • Caboose

    Takes some getting used to but definitely worth it. Can we expect to see some more appearances now?

  • Enigmatic

    Hopefully. But this is weird.

  • Slick Ric

    He didn’t mention westbrook though, so obviously he doesn’t consider him to be apart of that tier of PG’s.

  • Caboose

    Little late to the conversation…but define “pure pg.”

  • Caboose

    Keep in mind though that the ring he has came with him as the 4th (or maybe even 5th) best player on his team. The Celts have had less success since he took the lead as their best player.

  • Caboose

    For sure. But it’s definitely an upgrade. The voting system is awesome. Mostly to see Shock Exchange and Seed get like 20 negative votes but still, awesome.

  • datkid

    Deron Williams Chris Paul and Steve Nash are right up there as “pure” PG’s w/ Rondo IMO. Deron williams esp… just bc he’s been forced to score more doesn’t mean he’s not almost as capable a passer as the other 3.

  • chingy

    Call me a stalker, but I’ve been reading SLAMonline since as long as I can remember. Never really feel like posting because the old commenting system wasn’t good at all. But I’ve always felt like part of the “Slamily”

  • chingy

    Not the rapper unfortunately.

  • chingy

    Would be great if we can see who voted…gotta put it in DISQUS’s suggestion box.

  • Armando

    Making a lot of assists doesn’t necessarily make you a great passer. Stephon Marbury averaged 7.6APG over his career (16th all time); was he a better passer than Andre Miller, Vlade Divac, Avery Johnson or Larry Bird? I think not. Nash, Paul, Stockton and Magic are obviously great passers, but to use APG as the only measurement for good passing is just wrong. It might just mean you’re a ballhog who’s reluctant to pass the ball if it doesn’t lead to a basket, thus I disagree with saying that APG shows the willingness of passing.

  • danpowers

    even then id rather take asia muhammad, all day… long time lol

  • danpowers

    Nah, Asia Muhammad!

  • danpowers

    why not? he is young enough to survive this celts generations rebuild and be at the helm on the next successfull cs squad. he plays like oldschool fans like to see point guards play: pass first and play d. plus, he has got a unique style of play when you look at his shot, layup, anything he does. not like most others today who play as close as possible to a certain standard in technique. he has also got the balls to take important shots and the mojo to knock em down. when he calls it a carreer it shouldnt be too much of a suprise if hed be considered as their best pg of all time

  • The Seed

    Those who saying Rondo was 4th or 5th best player on the Celtics most recent championship. Did not watch the game, Rondo was the key to the Celtics winning, he was setting up and blowing by everyone. Also the reason the Lakers won against the Celtics in the rematch, was because Rondo was being guarded by Kobe and Kobe played off of him trying to mess up the passing angles for Rondo. Rondo will be top 15 all time. You heard hear first. Also rondo is a great passer and no matter who he plays with, he will do his thing.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Rose was the primary ball handler but the primary scorer was Ben Gordon whether he was hot or not.

  • chingy

    Top 15 Celtic all-time I’m guessing? How about Paul Pierce? I’m thinking top 5. Arguably top 3 behind Larry Legend and Bill Russell.

  • http://twitter.com/AjpDos Allen Powell

    Two things. Marbury is underrated and Deron Williams hass averaged nine assists most of his career. He ain’t a chucker and never has been.

  • JJ

    Nash posted 12.2 APG PER36 while Rondo posted 11.6. You could make the case that nash is a better playmaker especially with the difference in the supporting cast.

  • KnicksAllDay

    Get a more consistent Jump shot, then in 10 years we’ll see if he would be in the same conversation as the great Bob Cousy.

  • LakeShow

    ^Who is this guy with the funny name?

  • http://twitter.com/_DFrance DFrance

    He may be considered that by many, I’m just saying some fans would never put him in front of Cousy in their minds no matter what he does. Just like a lot of people won’t dare to consider that a player greater than MJ may eventually come along.

  • NYNBAfan

    So, Deron Williams you predict will raise his assist average to 11, while Rondo will lower his from 11.7 to 11? Not likely.

  • Armando

    Not comparing DWill to Marbury (although I disagree that he’s underrated, he’s rated just where he should be most of the time).. And not calling DWill a chucker, I think he’s a very good player, 3rd best PG in the L if Rose is healthy. I’m just saying I disagree with assist numbers being used as the only indication of willingness to pass, which is what I first interpreted you as saying. Obviously from reading later comments I understand that’s not your view. I think we’re more or less on the same page (apart from Marbury being underrated)…

  • http://twitter.com/AjpDos Allen Powell

    No problem

  • Zabbah

    Yeah, but it ain’t the monkeys. *wink

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