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Thursday, September 20th, 2012 at 12:00 pm  |  72 responses

Austin Rivers Thinks the Boston Celtics are Better Without Ray Allen


Austin Rivers’ father, Doc, was quite diplomatic when discussing Ray Allen’s departure from Boston this summer. The younger Rivers has evidently yet to learn the nuances of diplomacy when talking to the media – Austin claims that the Celtics are a better team now that Ray Allen is in Miami. Per ESPN: “As funny as it sounds, I actually think both teams benefited (from Ray Allen signing with the Heat,’ Austin Rivers said. ‘I think the Heat got a lot better obviously, because now the floor is spaced with Ray Allen. And I think the Celtics got better, because first off it was disappointing to (see him) leave because he was a part of that whole buildup to the Celtics again, but now you have a better defender in Courtney Lee, who is a great on-the-ball defender and someone who is going to add to the great defense the Celtics play already. And then you have Jason Terry, who is instant offense, something the Celtics need when you have older players like KG and Paul Pierce that get hurt. So when you have guys that are going to be inconsistent, not due to how good they are but how old they are, and the fatigue of a long season, you have guys who can come in and give you instant offense.’ And here’s Rivers on the Celtics’ chances of beating the Heat in the East: ‘I think if there’s one team in the East that can beat the Miami Heat I think it’s the Boston Celtics. I think it’s due to the players they have, the leadership my father has, how he motivates them. … They’re the only team that can do it.’”

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  • robb

    misleading title

  • KS

    This boy ain’t his fathers son

  • Junior Taylor

    CLee is a good on-ball-defender but let’s not over exaggerate and call him great on that end.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i don’t understand the idea that Jason Terry is instant offense……15 PPG on 43% shooting is umm, not instant offense. And Terry doesn’t, at all, score the majority of his points in isolation. He needs as much help scoring as Ray Allen does.

  • http://www.reverbnation.com/savagemuzicgroup T-Ray

    I wouldn’t agree with your last statement 100%. I mean does he need off ball screens sometimes? Yea but he seems much more comfortable with creating his own shot than Ray Allen. When Ray dribbled it was almost an instant turnover.

  • Metrobus

    Plain stupid

  • LakeShow

    He’s instant offense as much as anyone in the L. He’s built to come in and score from the bench.
    Per 36 mins he gives you 17PPG and 4AST.
    Who is a better example of instant offense off the bench to you?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    yeah you are right, i am understating Terry’s ability with the ball. But still, he’s not so much better off the bounce that he makes up for Allen’s superior shooting ability. imo atleast.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Manu Ginobili – James Harden – Louis Williams – Marcus Thornton – Antawn Jamison – Jamal Crawford.
    .
    Terry moving to a new system is going to highlight that he is a 34 year old, 6’4″ shooting guard. Plus, next to Rondo, he has to actually guard 2′s. He’s going to be tired as f*ck – no more playing next to Jason Kidd = no more conserving energy on defense.

  • http://www.reverbnation.com/savagemuzicgroup T-Ray

    Oh without a doubt you can’t replace Allen’s shooting off the screens. My only thing is that he’s not injury prone and he can handle the ball fairly well so I considerate it slight and I mean slight upgrade. Only because they have lacked that the past two seasons.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    my issue with this whole Terry makes them better because of what he can do with the ball theory is, uhm, he plays next to Rondo. Who HAS to have the ball to be effective.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Gilbert/100001749589586 Mike Gilbert

    lol @ Antawn Jamison

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Gilbert/100001749589586 Mike Gilbert

    but the point you bring up about him having to guard 2s is interesting

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Why is that funny? Jamison just put up 17 a game for Cleveland while being the only offensive option outside of Kyrie Irving. He is now the 6th man for the Lakers. He’s going to be in the running for 6th man of the year.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Gilbert/100001749589586 Mike Gilbert

    how…he plainly said I think they are better without Ray Allen

  • smiths

    He’s right. The Celtics were a defensively and offensively more effective team when he was injured post All Star Break. He has been such a liability on defense that his offense no longer mattered last year (even though that declined much of last year two). can’t run with Rondo any longer. Most folks didn’t watch much Celtics last year if they didn’t see how much in decline he was. That said he was better of the bench. But his ego wouln’t allow that since he was one of the “founding” big 3 members. JET knows his role and Courtney does too. That will ultimately be the differnce.

  • TV63

    Tellin it like it is. I like it!! Media will go after you because they’re haters but I respect bold up front honesty. Need more of that in today’s age.

  • http://www.reverbnation.com/savagemuzicgroup T-Ray

    That much is true but when he’s on the bench or when the defense starts to play off rondo that’s when his services will be proven to come in handy

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    why when the defenses play off of Rondo? That convolutes space and enables wing defenders to tighten up on shooters. — And Rondo plays 40 minutes a night, those 8 minutes a game aren’t going to be catalysts in many wins.

  • http://twitter.com/alan__ryan Alan Ryan

    The NBA believes that most teams are better without Austin Rivers.

  • http://www.reverbnation.com/savagemuzicgroup T-Ray

    Meant to say when they play tight typing fast on my phone

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    all good, that part is true. but how likely is that too happen? unless Rondo really worked on his J this summer i don’t know how often that situation will come up.
    .
    I’m not saying Terry is a bad player, infact i was pretty upset he wasn’t in the top 50 last year, but i just don’t think he is better than Ray Allen. And I certainly don’t think he (& Lee) make them better than they were with Ray.

  • LakeShow

    I give you Manu and Harden as better options.
    Everyone else is in the same category.
    Terry is still one of the best.Him next to Avery Bradley and Lee would work nicely, but won’t see to much time with Rondo needing his 40 minutes lol. Terry isn’t all that bad of a PG either. He isn’t great, but he dishes the ball well.
    My point being, I think you judge him to harshly, unless he really dips do to father time this next season.

  • http://www.reverbnation.com/savagemuzicgroup T-Ray

    True that I guess we’ll just have to see how it all unfolds

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    like i told T-Ray, i’m not trying to say Terry is a bad player, just that he doesn’t improve the team over what Ray provided. I think the system he was in, in Dallas really really played to his strengths, and that team valued him as the secondary scoring option. I just don’t see that happening in Boston. With the dearth of SG’s on the team, and that guy named Rondo, I don’t see Terry being what he has been over the last few years, and certainly don’t see him improving the team over how good they were last season…..when they took the eventual champs to 7 games with a hurt Ray Allen.

  • smiths

    Much better than Ray, who is a liability on that end.

  • smiths

    *last two years

  • Comment_System

    you sure are.

  • pposse

    who is this rooody pooh??

  • bk

    and terry doesnt fade in big playoff games alla harden

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    He may be right if he’s talking about Ray Allen from last year. He was injured most of the season. Jason Terry isn’t really an upgrade to me though. Courtney Lee is more of an upgrade than Terry is.

  • Redd

    It’s a pretty good team. I mean being able to have avery and Courtney playing 1, 2 and KG with Green coming back and Terry off the bench with 2 rookies who do have potential is pretty interesting.

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  • Fat Lever

    Wait, is a Laker fan actually defending a Celtic player? Like, for real?

  • LakeShow

    I call it how I see it.

  • 1982

    He ain’t wrong. And that sounded pretty diplomatic to me actually.

  • bigA

    He is more experienced than Harden. I don’t think Terry was considered clutch in his earlier years. Harden is a beast.

  • roscoe

    he is a rookie right? imo, ARS should limit what he says until he proves himself.
    he called garnett & pierce “older” & although true I expect garnett to react on that.

  • davidR

    james harden

  • Sigfred Lo

    Celtics do have a chance this season, Green and Terry wlll blast Miami’s bench for good this time! So long Miami!!!

  • Jay

    I still can’t believe how twisted the sports world is….Ray Allen complains and leaves the Celtics continues to talk badly about the team that helped him win a title REFUSES TO COME OFF THE BENCH…..Allen Iverson refuses to come off the bench a season after dropping 27 ppg and 7 apg and is no longer in the NBA for it? Not once did he badmouth these teams that didn’t treat him right(he shouldn’t have been coming off the bench for Memphis or Detroit) but Ray Allen gets a contract with the best team in the world. Smh.

  • wewqdqwd

    if boston had avery bradley last year they wouldve won it all

  • wewqdqwd

    didn’t even have jermaine oneal either which would’ve helped against bosh

  • Datkid

    absolutely

  • errday

    I’m looking forward to those 10-15 possessions a game when Ray was just running off screens for 20 seconds before firing up a contested J being a thing of the past.

  • errday

    His Dad being the coach of said team kind of gives him a bit of credibility though. He’d know more of the inner workings of the Celtics than some of the new players on their roster.

  • TRUTH

    couldn’t agree more! he did nothing for duke and played like crap in the summer league and got injured. he has no banners, no trophies, no rings…NOTHING to show for himself on the collegiate or professional level. and just like he believes the celtics are better off without ray allen, there are a hell of a lot of duke fans who feel the same way about him.
    so while he’s entitled to his own opinion, people shouldn’t take it too seriously or value it in anyway. this is the coach’s son!

  • danpowers

    at a first glance jason terry is not an update. but if you look at it closer he is. ray allen had the better overall carreer so far as an instant hall of fame guy. but now he needs a team to work for him, to be efficient .getting alot of off ball screens and running through them requires the point guard keeping the ball some time, waiting, waiting, waiting then pass him the ball to get him his shot. which is one reason why allen and rondo had their arguements as rondo often decided to do something else while allen was working his butt off to get open. jason terry doesnt need that, he plays more versatile as he can create his own shot and also create for others. allen helps the heat more than he would help the cs now, thats for sure. and the cs are better off with terry.

  • danpowers

    thats what she said

  • danpowers

    just look at their advanced stats and (rank among nba shooting guards): per terry: 15,8 (12) per allen: 14,8 (25); ast terry: 18,3 (27) ast allen: 15,2 (43); rbr terry: 4,2 (81); rbr allen: 5,2 (62); ts terry: 54% (27), ts allen: 60,7% (4). terry got a better overall per than allen even though allens shooting and rebounding are better which has to mean that terry plays more versatile and does so with more efficiency than allen. terrys clutch stats also speak for him, as he is one of the best in the league in that: 45,1 fg%, 39,13fg% 93ft%. that is absolutely outstanding and reliable when a game gets close in the end.he is also better at driving and kicking the ball out than allen. and i dont think that it makes too much of a difference if you have rondo or kidd next to you on offense. in rivers defensive system with guards like bradley, lee and rondo i dont think that terrys flaws will get exposed too badly. looks like a win win situation for both teams as miami just needs allens shooting.

  • Loaf

    I think Austin should leave the talking to his old man……

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i am not calling Terry a bad player, I am not even saying he’s a “worse” player than Ray Allen. I just don’t think he brings anything to that Celtics team, that makes them better than they were with Ray Allen.

  • danpowers

    i think he does. allen provided just the swishing while terry will provide swishing and dishing

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i understand the concept, but, if you look at what they do, Jason Terry, even last season compared to Allen, uses more possessions to help his team less.
    .
    - Terry’s Usage % last year, 23.3 – His Win Shares – 3.85
    - Allen’s Usage % last year, 18.6 – His Win Shares – 4.7
    .
    Both players really showed their age last year, Allen just showed he is going to age more gracefully because his strengths translate to being a role player much better than Terry’s do.

  • Nathan A

    Agree with 1982. His answer of “The trade improved both teams” is a lot more diplomatic and nuanced than “The Celtics are better without Ray Allen” as the headline suggests. It’s not like he was bagging on Ray after he said he will help the Heat.

  • danpowers

    to put it in a nutshell: last season was a season to forget for both players. terry and the whole mavs team suffered from an unexcusable but understandable championship hangover and roster breakdown while allen was playing through nagging injuries.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    agreed, but, last season was the only year of their careers where you could even make an argument that Terry had a superior impact, so….

  • danpowers

    on a worse team that terry was on. id like to use your arguement that most players play (even if just slightly) worse with less talent around them than they would do with more talent. thats why i didnt put the win shares into the mix. but you are right, the win shares might be a little reminder by allen who of the two will be a hall of famer soon and who (most likely) not

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Dan you are messing with me right? Jason Terry is a year removed from winning a title. Ray Allen has one title. They have been on pretty similarly talented teams bro.

  • roscoe

    Rookies do errands like carrying luggage & picking up food for the team. ARS’ bubble is going to get popped.

  • roscoe

    I agree with you he has insider information, but he still has his place in life like everyone else. His place as a rookie is not to act like a strategy expert when there is a strong chance he won’t last 3 years in the league. ppl say getting to the league is hard but staying in the league is even harder & demands respect.
    My point is for him to earn respect with his play and then talk all you want.
    He should take notes from guys like Drose and Kthompson on how to talk about other teams when you are a rookie.

  • danpowers

    you want to compare the mavs 2011-12 with the 2010-11 version? come on bruv.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Ray Allen has ALWAYS been better. Every year. Even when Jason Terry was on a team that went to the finals and Allen was on the worst team in the league. Come on, you can’t make the “good teammate” argument between Allen & Terry. The only argument that Terry is/was better stems from what he did in the playoffs in 2011, and their statistical comparison last season……ignoring the fact that Allen was injured. — Unless, you want to try and make the argument that it is harder to play after you win a championship, than it is after you get hurt?

  • roscoe

    I believe ppl get scoring in batches confused with instant offense.
    We can all agree he did crush the heat & Bron bron’s heart in the clincher to win the title for DAL.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    I think you are spot on man.

  • danpowers

    no no no, didnt want to say that terry was better than allen at any time of their carreers. just wanted to say terrys win share was slightly dumped by an overall tired mavs team. allen is the better player, period. just said at this point of their carreers that the way terry plays, his style of play, helps particularly this celtics roster more than the way allen is playing now. so he helps this team and brings them shooting and creating shots for others. allen could do that too if he wanted but why should he? he is more efficient as a pure shooter and he plays that role perfect. that will fit better with the heat, and terry fits better with the celtics (now). that was jus my point.

  • Bradley Burch

    What you’re forgetting, nbk, is that Ray’s personality does not translate into being a role player, and that is the flaw in the logic of most of your posts on the topic.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    That is your opinion, not a fact. Actually there is no reason to even believe that to be true. So no, that is not a flaw in most of my posts.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Ok that makes sense, only time will tell whose opinion is more right lol.

  • roscoe

    @LakeShow:
    When I hear think “instant” I think just add water. Cessna (ie Jet) has a great shot imo but i don’t see him as someone who gets his own shot like Bron, Kb24, kd, rw, dwade, drose, dwill, cp3, dirk & the likes.
    I would take Manu or James over Cessna, but Cessna’s #s are comparable to most which was your point.
    Manu G. per 36 is 20ppg, 6.9asst, 1.1stl, & 5 boards for the past 8 seasons.
    James H. per 36 is 19.3ppg, 4.2asst, 1.1 stl, 4.4boards.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Chris.Harvin Harvin Galit

    I agree with Austin Rivers.Celtics is better now.this is because they add young ang have a good defense like courtney lee and offense with terry.

  • Jeremys6226

    Austin’s completely right and was perfectly diplomatic. Misleading title

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