Sunday, November 25th, 2012 at 3:17 pm  |  251 responses

Kobe Bryant: ‘I’ll Be Scoring a Lot More When [Steve] Nash Gets Back’


Kobe’s scoring numbers aren’t way down this season—he’s averaging 26.9 points per game, just one point per game less than last year. But he does expect that number to go up when point guard Steve Nash returns, allowing Kobe the chance to do less distributing and more, well, shooting. Via the OC Register: “Bryant understands how it looks. When he sets up teammates for buckets, the Lakers have been winning. When he doesn’t, they haven’t. Bryant’s pick-and-roll plays are “by far” the best attack the team has, D’Antoni said, while Steve Nash remains out because of a leg fracture. No. 2 point guard Steve Blake might be back from his abdominal strain Tuesday against Indiana, but Bryant had four assists and no turnovers in the Lakers’ hot first quarter against the Mavericks. To Bryant, though, when he sets up teammates and they don’t make shots, then he has no choice but to shoot more to try to rally. ’I've been doing this my whole career, and some nights my teammates hit more shots and that adds up to more assists for me,’ Bryant said. ‘The games we win are when the whole team is making shots. Now, if our shots aren’t going in, then I have to take more of the offensive load.’ Bryant is looking forward to Nash’s return, for sure. Nash will be re-evaluated next week. ’I'll be scoring a lot more when Nash gets back,’ Bryant said. ‘I won’t have to facilitate as much, and it will allow me to do what I do best — and that’s put the ball in the hole.’”

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  • justin05

    I’m saying he’ll finish #3 in total points when he retires but I’ll still only consider him a top 5 scorer all-time. These all-time lists don’t matter that much tho bro, it just gives us something to argue about. I just want my team to win games, never have I been an irrational Kobe fan or an irrational hater against another player. I dislike every team in the NBA because I am such a die hard Laker fan. This is all child’s play compared to what I’ll be talking about come June

  • justin05

    Jackass’s get far in life because they standf up for what they believe in. The truth hurts sometimes.. I never play video games unless it’s 2k or madden. Basketball and music are my passions in life, they are what I know and live by. Caboose is no baller, I can tell you that. Real players always have the best views because they see the game for what it is.

  • justin05

    I don’t care about stats man..I get on nba.com every other day or so and see who is in the top 10 for each category but I get bored looking them up. Stats will never tell you who is going to win the championship and that is all I care about. #17. Basketball is not academic, and there are plenty of people who agree w/ you and bamn.. just as there are many people who agree w/ myself. I have nothing against you Caboose.. bamn and other ppl start more of the garbage about Kobe and I’m just going to nip it in the @SS as soon as I see it. You just always want to debate, next time I see a comment from you that I like I’ll show you some luv brother. No hate. The only time I’m going to show disrespect is if there is disrespect being thrown around.

  • LakeShow

    I see. Most of that was understood. It also exemplifies why I don’t understand why we use it…

    PER isn’t really a great statistic IMO. I mean it can be used, but it really shouldn’t play merit on how we view a player if it’s higher or lower than expected.

    If a statistic overvalues and undervalues things than it’s not a good statistic IMO.

    You follow what i’m saying? This is the reason why I rag on some of these advance stats sometimes. I just don’t feel they provide a good, true metric for viewing players.

    Nash has been an infinitely better player starting than Jefferson. I don’t think there’s a person that would disagree with that. Yet PER says they have comparable value…

    Am I missing something?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    speaking on the existence of a god or higher power, please please please explain, logically, how you get something from nothing. If there is no eternal (god/higher power) then there is nothing. logically.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    he didn’t make Caboose look bad, he just showed he doesn’t understand the stats he is trying to use to justify his argument. the only thing that would make someone think Caboose looks bad here is ignorance.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Caboose LakeShow justin05 – here you go, if you want to see what matters more for winning…….

    .
    (Win Shares – Per Season)
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_season.html

    .

    (PPG Per Season)

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_per_g_season.html

    .

    Seems like Win Shares will give you a better idea of whose teams are having more success……..uh oh.

  • LakeShow

    Tell me Caboose, what does leading the L in PER have to do with anything?

    Why would we act like someone is great because of their PER?

    It’s a statistic which provides a poor metric for testing a players impact.

    Sometimes it adds up, sometimes it doesn’t.
    .
    .
    .
    What do win/shares have to do with anything?

    Kobe has more win shares than LeBron…. That means he’s better than LeBron right?…

    You still don’t understand why we don’t like your “factual statistics” do you?

    What does leading the L in FG% mean? Pretty sure Tyson Chandler and Dwight Howard – two not so great offensive players- led the L for many years…

    What do all these great statistics truly mean unless you use your noggin?
    Your too smart to just read these numbers and blurt out like that man. There’s more to the game than numbers.

  • Caboose

    I’d be happy to talk about this, but is this comment thread really the appropriate place?

  • Caboose

    Of course there’s more: the application of said numbers. Usually, I don’t randomly chuck out stats, I use them to prove a point. Namely stuff like this:
    Argument 1: Kobe is clutch.
    Counterpoint 1: His FG% in clutch situations is under 40%.
    Argument 2: Kobe is a winner.
    Counterpoint 2: Years without Shaq, Win Shares per 48 minutes (total win shares isn’t as good).
    Argument 3: Kobe is an efficient offensive player.
    Counterpoint 3: PER, FG%, etc, etc.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    hell no it isn’t. you got my email?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    As I have always said, i never use single stats to make a point. i use them to support a point, ofcourse, but i never like any of them as stand alone stats, there is too much to basketball to simplify it with a single statistic. And as you see and presumably most everyone else, Nash’s effect on his team is so much more profound then Jefferson that this stat really doesn’t do any justice to ranking either of them. But the stat isn’t bad, it really does give a good idea of the best overall offensive basketball players (aside from those that rebound heavily) — see what Hollinger tried (and acts like he succeeded in doing) was too value the best offensive players while still giving proper context to those guys who do more away from the scoring column. — as you see with Dwight Howard he is constantly near the leaders in PER despite “low” offensive production, simply because Hollinger so over values Defensive Rebounds/Blocks/Steals that it flubs the numbers. Which if all basketball players were created equal would be a passable short cut, but since they aren’t and there are guys like Kevin Love, the stat ends up overvaluing guys that seem to be nothing more than stat sheet stuffers.
    .
    Hence the widespread belief that Kevin Love is the best PF in the NBA despite the fact that he has almost no positive effect on his actual team at all.

  • Caboose

    Really? You’re gonna claim that Kobe is the same scorer as Jordan? Sigh, whatever, I’ll prove you wrong.
    1. Jordan led the league in scoring 10 times. Kobe, twice.
    2. Jordan career PPG: 30.1 Kobe: 25.4. This includes the Wizards years.
    3. Even though Jordan played an inefficient 2 years in Washington, his eFG% and TS% are higher. The 3 point line was adjusted for 3 years, having little effect on career totals.
    4. Jordan led the league in Offensive Win Shares 8 times. Kobe never has.
    5. Jordan led the league in Usage % 8 times. 6 out of those times, he led the league in Win Shares per 48 Minutes. Kobe led the league in Usage % 3 times. He never led the league in Win Shares per 48 minutes.
    6. The players’ Offensive Ratings aren’t even close.
    7. Jordan Playoff Career PPG: 33.4. Kobe: 25.6
    8. Jordan has higher TS% and EFG% in the Playoffs for a career as well.
    9. Kobe has never shot over 50% for a season. Jordan did 6 times.
    10. If you want to compare eras (like you seem to), Jordan played with hand check rules and less fouls called inside. Kobe has the benefit of loosened defense. Hence the higher amount of free throws.
    11. The only absolutely moronic argument you can make to say that Kobe is the same scorer as Jordan is that Kobe scored 81 in a game. Bravo. Idiot.

  • Caboose

    I’ll find it. Or, we could always just hijack a little-viewed thread here. That would be fun.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    either way is cool with me. last time i had this conversation with an atheist they left not being an atheist. lol

  • Caboose

    Haha good for you. I’m not trying to convive people though. I’ll have my say, and that’s it. No counterpoints. No argument. Just my statements. Warning, it will consist of a crash course in relativity, quantum mechanics, and astrophysics.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    oh i didn’t mean to make it sound like i’m going to argue with you, lol my bad. just that, with how i understand and explain it, i don’t see any logical way not to be a theist. but i am really excited to see a different perspective. i am just as interested in this topic as i am in anything, so i’m a little zealous.

  • LakeShow

    Fair.
    You have been doing quite well at not just throwing some number out there to “prove a point”.
    It’s our boy Caboose that is acting like if you have a better PER or Win/share you ARE better.
    I myself will use PER and +/- and any other stat when the context seems correct to use, but otherwise it’s dumb to act like they are be all end all.
    LeBron is better than Kobe because he is, not because the number say so.
    It also happens that allot of numbers point to that also, in this case.
    You know how I feel about K-Love. I do think he is top 3, but the “stats” make it appear as if he is the obvious #1.
    LA, J-Smith, Gasol, Dirk, Z-Bo, and Bosh are all comparable players in terms of impact today IMO. An argument can be made for any of them being the top PF, but the “stats” might point to just one of them. So you see why i’m a little anti-stats sometimes.

    Once again appreciate you breaking it down.

  • LakeShow

    I didn’t refer to anything about PPG.
    That is something that Caboose made up as a Straw man argument to counter my decent objections to some of the stats he was using.
    None-the-less, i’ll check it out to educate myself further.

  • LakeShow

    To your ‘Counter point 1′: How many player in the L take the “game winning” shot 95% of the time for their team?
    Counter point 2: Kobe has won every year he has had an All-Star team mate. He only didn’t win when he had Smush Parker and Chris Mihm manning the court with him.
    Counterpoint 3: Efficient offensive player by what standard?
    Player average?
    Guard average?
    Volume shooter average?
    Compared to other players that play nearly exclusively on the perimeter?
    Compared to all time greats?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    honestly only put your name in there because you were involved in the conversation. that comment was to show Justin that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about at all. more than anything. even though he thinks he does because he played, and from some unfounded reason, thinks he has more actual basketball experience than everyone he talks to, and even worse, thinks his experience in the sport has somehow elevated his level of understanding to the point where facts matter less than his opinion. basically, he is the worst kind of commenter.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    oh and i highly highly highly doubt he has more playing experience than i do. unless he plays professionally. which doesn’t really matter, because i understand that playing isn’t everything. there are very intelligent basketball minds who never played a minute of real high level basketball ——- Stan Van Gundy (played for a high school team and then moved on to play for his dad at a d-III school) being a glaring example.

  • LakeShow

    lol…

    Gotcha.

    I admit that I get geeked up over ball sometimes, and I love ball so sh*t get’s real on here sometimes, but i’m no dodo.

    Justin is speaking naively about PPG. Such a silly argument to make.

    Too easy to pick apart.

    Basically he admits to thinking Kevin Martin was the 6th best player in the L in 07-08…

  • Caboose

    I gotcha. Meet me at the Spike Lee thread. Are you asking me to make points against religious organizations, a specific religion, an old man with a white beard, a “creator,” or a being that transcends the laws of the universe?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    I am a theist. What he looks like lol, what religion, non of that matters to me. It’s a creator as I see it. Creator of everything but himself. Unless we are a computer program. See you there

  • LakeShow

    1. Look at the team he was playing on. Kinda hard to uproot all star Eddie Jones out of his starting spot. 20-5-4-1.5-1 is not a lame year lol.

    2. LeBron is not touted as being a “great scorer” yet has one. (So what)

    3. Just as debateable as his MVP is his lack of MVP a couple other years.

    4. “only 2 finals MVP’s”…. Only???? how many more NBA players in history have more?

    5. Michael Jordan would have been the 2nd option on a team with Shaq. You feed the dominant 60% FG% guy EVERY time. (So what he wasn’t as dominant as Shaq was then. No one in history before is/was/or has been on a similar scale)

    6. Poor team performance are directly tied into the lack of team. Worse team than Bron had.

    7. Poor shooting % in clutch situations based on what metric? No one takes or will take as many clutch shots as Kobe. Volume matters. There’s a reason why Phil Jackson gave KB the shot at the end of the game. (hint: it wasn’t because he was an idiot)

    8. Do I need to defend this? You shoot allot… You miss allot.

    9. So f*cking what??????????

    10. Pretty good for a volume shooter that operates almost strictly on the perimeter to have average FG% numbers.

    11. So does Kareem. So does Wilt. So does Karl Malone. So does Michael Jordan. (Those were just the first four players I checked….)

    12. … … …

  • LakeShow

    That’s why^

  • LakeShow

    Plus, it’s hard to put up 20-15 games when your washed up…

  • Bored

    now im back to thinking you are crazy. PPG? PPG????? i dont think anyone will ever take you seriously again. sorry bro. unless you just brain farted?

  • Bored

    are you defending him because he put up 19 and 15 against Dallas? thats one game. though maybe you are right and they are just resting him or something for the playoffs?

  • Justin Martinez

    I may not understand win shares but I don’t take this site that seriously. Like I have said before, I smoke before I usually get on the internet so I’m just bsing half the time. When Caboose made his comment about PPG I thought it was ridiculous because you win a basketball game by putting up more points than your opponents. Why do you think the NBA has a scoring championship title and not a win shares title? You people spend wayyy too much time on this website dissecting every little thing. I just make ignorant comments when I’m pissed at ppl for making disrespectful comments about Kobe. We’ve all wasted enough time on eachother but if I see hate on Kobe I’ll do the same thing I did in this article… Call out the guys who disrespect. I can do whatever I want so if you don’t want to read my comments further than skip them. I do the same thing to a bunch of yours and bamn’s comments..No harm no foul.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Then do it again, I’m never going to respect the way you go about commenting, repeating and defending yourself is just wasting your own time.

  • Justin Martinez

    We’re still Laker fans at the end of the day bro. This ppg debate means nothing to me, I was trying to stick up for you earlier. I just don’t like the disrespect that’s been given to my favorite baller of all-time.

  • Justin Martinez

    I’ve never said I know more than you but the Kobe vs. Wade debate has shown thus far that you, bamn, and Caboose don’t know as much as Drig’r, Conor, and myself when it comes to best in the league. Keep using those stats and Kobe will keep racking up the rings regardless of his win shares lmao

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    “As me and the Lakers minions have said” I don’t give a f*ck about your broken opinion. Or Conors. All you have proven is that you have an unshakeable illogical bias that makes you look willfully stupid agree or not that’s how you look to most of us. And if you don’t care that’s fine, but that’s how you are perceived.

  • Bored

    huh? whats why?

  • LakeShow

    ‘Preciate man, truly do.

    Didn’t mean it to come off as ‘your not smart’ or something, just that I wasn’t down to defend PPG as the be all end all of statistics lol.

    Kobe gets disrespected more than most, and that’s gross, but the worse part is these guys on here truly do recognize him as an all time great, they just don’t like it.

  • LakeShow

    He also had another 18-7 game, a game or two before that one.
    He’s been picking it up. I don’t think there is any “saving” going, just everyone trying to get in game shape and playing with new team mates and such that’s all.

  • Bored

    yeah i thought so. its hard to talk about basketball when youre so biased though isnt it?

  • Bored

    yeah, i think it could go either way. im hoping for the best for him though. i just think he probably wont produce in the way you guys are hoping.

  • Drig’r

    1. Jordan had a higher usage rate and put up more shots per season.

    2. Your point being? Jordan put up more shots than Kobe did. And the O helped him.

    3. I said that the eFG% and tS% would be virtually identical if Kobe played the same way as Jodan did i.e. attack strongly to the rim and post-up plays. Even with all the long 2s Kobe’s taken, his eFG% and TS% is about 2% less than Jordan’s. Jordan’s efficiency would’ve fallen off if he had a paint full post players and defenders and he had to take long 2s and 3s to create some space on the inside.

    4&5. Isiah Thomas ranks 131 in OWS. Wanna explain to me how there are 130 guys who were better to handle the O and generate buckets? OWS and WS are relative stats which should not be used unless they play the EXACT same role under the EXACT same conditions.

    6. ORtg takes into account the efficiency of a player. Kobe’s had the deck stacked against him and I already explained why over time on these discussion threads.

    7. 21.8 FGA vs 25.3 FGA. Again, he also benefitted by being able to play near the post or iso-picks on the wing. Kobe and Jordan would destroy anyone like that.

    8. Again, .503 vs .480 . .561 vs .548. This is with the long 2s Kobe needed to take included.

    9. Kobe never had a great team that let him have knockdown perimeter shooters, a great 2nd wing player.

    10. Kobe played in an era where handchecking + zone was allowed. In ’99-’02 I think. It’s BS when people say Kobe couldn’t be just as effective on O in handchecking era. If given the same Bulls team, he could’ve driven more to the hoop just like MJ did.

    Also, Kobe’s D would benefit from playing in the handcheck era. Kobe’s FG% would increase playing in the no-zone/semi-zone era.

    The 1994 rule is as follows: *Hand-checking [is] eliminated from the end line in the backcourt to the opposite foul line. What this effectively means is that hand checking is prohibited except for post play in the paint, something still allowed today.

    That 1994 rule stayed in effect till 2004 until it was changed to the form that it currently is today *”A defender may not place and keep his hand on an opponent unless he is in the area near the basket with his back to the basket. A defender may momentarily touch an opponent with his hand anywhere on the court as long as it does not affect the opponent’s movement (speed, quickness, balance, rhythm).”

    The current rule in its wording actually permits more contact than the 1994 rule, although it doesn’t permit as much contact as Jordan played under for his first 9 years.

    How much did Jordan’s FG% increase exactly from ’94 to ’97 compared to ’84 – ’94????

  • rraquet

    True enough, but for bamn who is on here all the time to say he’s unaware that you like the magic is a joke, yeah you remain objective, but you’ve also stated numerous times the magic are your team. Doesn’t matter really, just found it odd that bamn would claim to have never seen you rep a team, when I’ve seen it quite a few times and im not on here anywhere close to as much. As him.

  • Datkid

    Magic Johnson is a “real baller” does he have good basketball views? MJ is the realest baller and he can’t evaluate talent at all. and playing video games means nothing. there’s no actual truth in your argument just bias and stupidity.

  • http://www.facebook.com/rainman1991 Saleem Rainman

    lol

  • LakeShow

    *Makes way over to Spike Lee thread*

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    *doesn’t see the discussion he was anticipating* lol

  • LakeShow

    ^*reads mind*

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    haha you can put in your 2 cents or say what you wanted to say anyway. that type of discussion interests me just as much as anything.

  • LakeShow

    I for one won’t being reading much Plato or Aristotle.
    Don’t get me wrong, they are fantastic in their originality and overall mind, but I need a condensed version of that sh*t, (they ‘fluff’ to much for me) I ain’t patient, like you were saying lol.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    right, i try and just get the message, and the logical steps that lead up to it. you can reply to what your stance on my basis is over there if you wanna discuss that without jumping into philosophical history.

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