Jerry West Considers Kobe Bryant the Greatest Laker Ever

It’s a never-ending debate: who is the greatest Los Angeles Laker of all time? The choices are plentiful — Magic Johnson, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Shaquille O’Neal, Kobe Bryant and a few others could all make the claim — but according to Jerry West, the title goes to the Black Mamba. Per USA Today: “West, the former Lakers general manager who brought Bryant to Laker Land as a rookie in 1996 by way of the trade with the Charlotte Hornets for Vlade Divac, would consider Bryant the best Laker of all time even if he quit tomorrow. His sentiment echoed that of Magic Johnson, the five-time champion who reiterated his stance on ESPN on Wednesday night that Bryant was the best of all the Lakers. West, who is now a consultant for the Golden State Warriors, said he viewed Abdul-Jabbar and Chamberlain differently because they didn’t play their entire careers with the Lakers but he clearly sees Bryant above Johnson and himself on the Lakers’ long list of greats. ‘What he has accomplished with this team, I don’t think there’s any question in my mind at this point in time – because of him being with this team for his whole career – that he has been the greatest Laker player,’ West – who earned 14 All-Star berths, one championship, one MVP and made nine Finals appearances – said. ‘I do think he’s the greatest Laker player we’ve ever seen.’ As for the scoring record and whether Bryant will pursue it, West doesn’t see him chasing the mark unless he’s still playing at the highest level. ‘The one thing he’s been able to avoid are really serious injuries,’ West said. ‘That is a factor in anyone’s success…(But) he’s not going to go out there and play – like a lot of guys do – past their prime, trying to chase a record. I don’t think that’s who he is, at the end of the day. I just think that he’s just one of those guys who loves to compete, loves to win, understands that he’s been doing it for so long, at a high level, and now the team hasn’t played as well as (they were expected to). Does that wear on him? I’m sure. And then having you guys ask him the question, ‘How long will you play?’ I think he’ll play as long as he feels like he can play like he is right now, and then he will move away from it.’”

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Tags: Jerry West, Kobe Bryant, Los Angeles Lakers

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http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

that and, “being a prisoner of something you can take credit for” — like being the guy who drafted Kobe.
Nope

comparing mvp counts doesn’t matter… let’s be realistic: kobe was far and away the most valuable player to his team and the league for WAY more than one season haha. i’m not even a kobe fan, nor am i in favour for him in this argument, but dude should have at least 3 mvps.
Sérgio

No Magic, no chips, no Kobe, no chips.
jumpman3224

Also, leader in Win Shares – 2nd in Defensive Win Shares and 2nd in Offensive Win Shares.
http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

what years? You can make a case (a bad one) that he deserved the MVP in ’06, but that’s the only other year there is an argument for. — he was the Leagues marquee face. Not it’s actual best player for more than a couple years outside of the 3 where he was the best player in the league on a fringe playoff team.
Don

It’s kobe
http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

He’s played 17 years. Most of those accomplishments are just due to longevity (like Win Shares). SO he’s the greatest Laker ever because of Longevity?
ByAnyMeansNecessary

He detailed last night how Dwight could get 28 or 30 a night and it didn’t sound too bad. But he keeps saying a dominant center needs to get 28 and 15 a night and then he says Brook is the best when he’s never averaged more than 9 rebounds or 20 points in his career. That Superman nickname really gets to him.
http://www.facebook.com/evan.boland Evan Boland

I never said he is. I just said to make a statement declaring everyone who believes Kobe > Magic to be a Kobe fan is ridiculous. I still place Magic ahead slightly. He changed the game. He changed to whole landscape of the L.

But as for a Kobe argument:

More all star appearances, more all-nba teams, defense, gave the organization more high-quality seasons, all-time scoring leader.

If he’s able to win another title.. Which is very doubtful, however. Still, even if he does win another I still believe Magic > Kobe, and Michael > Kobe.
http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

yeah it does.
ByAnyMeansNecessary

I think you’re confusing being the best player in the league with being the most valuable.
ByAnyMeansNecessary

Understandable.
http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

Kobe has played for 17 years. The argument i keep seeing are about totals, so the whole argument for why he’s the greatest Laker revolves around longevity, not actual greatness?

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and PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don’t bring up all-defensive teams. Of all the things Kobe has received off of reputation, AT LEAST NINE of those selections were purely for that reason.
Dymez

Of course. Jerry definitely wants his slice of the pie, too.
jumpman3224

He’s not the greatest Laker ever due to longevity, but longevity should be considered as a very important aspect when evaluating greatness. When you are talking about a guy who has played at an All-Star level for as long as Kobe has, his longevity is something that separates him from other great players.

In another post you had asked for a logical arguments. Do you not see those as such?
everynowhere

kobe’s been selected on an all-defensive team 12 times and you’re saying he deserves 3 of them. Nice.
RayJr

Kobe has been my favorite player since he was a rook and in my opinion he is the greatest Laker(so I’m already biased towards him) BUT I believe people should wait until his career is over until we all start this kind of debate. Just wait until he retires and we will have his final numbers to compare to other Lakers.
http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

not really. i don’t think Kobe playing for 17 years and accomplishing less than Magic in terms of stuff people actually use in “greatness” arguments….Championships, MVPs, Finals MVPs – and then using stats from there on after you examine the most pressing accomplishments.

.

I mean you wanna talk about Win Shares/All Defensive Selections/All NBA Teams/and totals…..

.

That would make the argument for Karl Malone as a better all-time player than Kobe completely logical (or at least comparable)……would you say that putting Kobe barely ahead of Malone, strictly because of his rings and nothing else, is logical?

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http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=bryanko01&y1=2013&p2=malonka01&y2=2004
.
cuz i wouldn’t.
jumpman3224

@nbk: what’s your take on the theory that when evaluating two players that who was greater and who was better isn’t always the same answer? For example, maybe Magic is a better player than Kobe when evaluating NBA players, but Kobe had a historically greater career due to being close in the “better” argument and sustaining his career for a longer period of time, which allowed him to accomplish more. Just curious.
http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

right? Kobe got 1st team all defense in 2007….with a defensive rating of 109!!!!!! (that’s the same defensive rating as Vladimir Radmonovic, for comparison to his teammates sake) he was the best defensive player on the 24th best defense in the NBA…..and got selected to 1st team all-defense.

.

He isn’t a bad defender by any stretch, but he sure didn’t deserve the praise he was getting. SH*T, he IS getting All-Defensive selections while not guarding a single premiere offensive wing for ENTIRE SEASONS….(2008-2012 —- with Ariza and Artest).
jumpman3224

I would say it’s logical, ie that line of thinking involves logic, but something being logical doesn’t mean that I agree with it. It doesn’t mean that there aren’t other logical, credible arguments to be made.

I believe that the points myself and others have made – that revolve around totals and longevity – are being made because the numbers for “stuff people actually use” are out there, they’ve been shared in these conversations and comparable (5 titles each, 3/1 MVPs, 3/2 Finals MVPs). As such, these are other numbers that could support the Kobe side of the debate. The debate doesn’t hinge on these sorts of numbers, they work in conjunction with the many other positive things you could say about Bryant’s career. Not to say, that they win it for him, but they are certainly worth considering.

Truth be told, there is no definitive measure of greatness. Both Kobe and Magic are historically great and deciding between the pair is subjective regardless of your reasoning.
http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

that’s fair. i guess i don’t know what word to use then. the argument follows a logical line of thought, but it doesn’t ______ make sense, to value total statistics over consistent performance? — wanna help me word what i’m tryna say? i apparently don’t posses the linguistic skills that it would take to portray what i’m trying to say.
.
if you had to win a single championship, by picking one Laker, between Kobe and Magic, who do you pick?
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Who wouldn’t ______ (logically?) pick Magic?. He made everyone around him exponentially better, can’t say that about Kobe. He consistently led teams to more success then Kobe. He had more individual success in a shorter amount of time (more titles, title appearances, MVPs, Finals MVPs, in a *considerably* shorter amount of time). He was a better, more impactful player for the Lakers organization by any single year measure. So to me, he’s clearly “greater”.
jumpman3224

Is it possible that defensive rating is not the best way to evaluate defensive contributions? The All-NBA defensive team is chosen by NBA head coaches. These are the guys, along with their staff, are constantly breaking down film and evaluating strengths and weaknesses of players. So, it could be that they think Kobe is a better defender than his rating. That he impacts team’s defensive efforts in help or zone situations that would not be reflective in the rating. Also, Kobe for his career is a premiere perimeter defensive rebounder, which ultimately is how defensive possesions are finished off. I believe that factors in. Sure, he COULD be getting these accolades based off reputation, but he also COULD be more deserving than your realize.
http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

Wait wait wait, are you really under the impression that Coaches pay attention to everything every player on every team is doing? — The coaches gameplan for teams, they don’t scout them. They watch tape on how to make their team successful, they don’t watch tape to see what other players on other teams are doing. Don’t fool yourself into thinking the head coaches of the NBA are spending their time paying attention to any team other than for the benefit of their own.
http://www.facebook.com/evan.boland Evan Boland

Yeah, longevity does not make him greater than Magic, that’s why I still chose Magic. I do think it’s amazing that he’s been so great for so long, though, that does count for something. The ALL-defensive teams are pretty much a joke. I’m not sure how many he deserves, but certainly not 12.
http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

“That he impacts team’s defensive efforts in help or zone situations that would not be reflective in the rating” – defensive rating is a reflection of how an entire team plays while a player is on the court. — if Kobe’s defensive rating is worse then certain teammates, it’s because the TEAM’s DEFENSE is worse with Kobe on the court then that player. I mean, i can show you literal, on-court vs off-court defensive numbers for every season dating back to i believe 2007. And only one of those (2008 i believe) will reflect Kobe having a positive effect on his teams defense (which i believe is a positive differential of about .8 points per 100 possessions). He historically/statistically, has been a slightly above average defensive wing. And nowhere close to the elite defender he has been portrayed as.

.
However, I am aware that situationally (specifically at the end of games, in the early part of the last decade) he was a defensive stalwart. And from 2000-2003 he was top 5 as a defensive wing. But that’s hardly worth 12 all-defensive selections, specifically the selections he received from 2007-2012, where he wasn’t defending any premier guys on any sort of consistent basis, and was only defensively game changing in situations like at the end of games. — unless you think it makes sense to hand out all-defensive selections to guys who are only elite a couple possessions every few games?
jumpman3224

I suppose it means you simply don’t agree. That’s fine – it’s subjective.

Kobe’s supporters aren’t valuing total stats over consistent performance. They are valuing both. Kobe has been consistent for the last 15+ years, an almost unimaginable stretch, thanks to that he has crazy total statistics.

Many people would pick Kobe over Magic to win one championship. Many people would pick Magic over Kobe to win one championship. Odds are either one would lead the team to a W.
jumpman3224

Genuinely, you make some really good points.

However, as it relates to Kobe versus Magic. Regardless of if Kobe earned every one of his all-defensive team or he gained them based off reputation – Magic had none, so he must not have even had a reputation for being an outstanding defender.
LakeShow

lol. Factual proof please.
http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

right, i feel like me defending my opinion is making it look like i’m degrading Kobe. I’m not. His 17 years, 14 of which have been at an absurd level, is simply astonishing. He’s the second greatest Laker ever, which is also astonishing, considering the people he is following. He is the 2nd best SG ever, and a fringe top 10 player (i have him 11 – 8-10 if he wins another ring depending on the manner he does it).
.
Kobe has been absolutely amazing and i’ve enjoyed every minute of his career…….
.
but he isn’t better then Magic was.
LakeShow

Remember this is the guy that thinks Andrew Bynum played a more prevalent part in the Lakers most recent three finals runs than Kobe Bryant…
http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

i don’t think many people would pick Kobe over Magic. i think barely any people would do that.
.
i have heard more people choose Magic over Jordan to build a team around then I have heard people say they’d pick Kobe over Magic.
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Sh*t, even on the Open Court show on NBATV, some of those guys were picking Magic over EVERYONE.
LakeShow

Co-sign this.
Kobe CAN be the greatest, but he has some work.
jumpman3224

I’m logging off for the afternoon. All the Best @nbk.

Truth be told, this season and next season are going to go a long way to determine Kobe’s place in the pecking order of NBA and Laker greats. In his own estimation he’s never had more talent around him, so it’s do are die. Failing to win a title with this group would be a huge mark against him when debating his greatness standing.

All in all though, both of these guys are all-time top 10 players and LA is fortunate to have had them both.
http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

Defense was literally an afterthought throughout the vast majority of Magic’s career. And i’m not at all saying Magic and Kobe are close as defenders, they aren’t. Kobe was much better, but Magic had things that made him comparably valuable on that end — like his ability to rebound and guard 4 positions. I mean, a lot of what Magic could do defensively was stuff Kobe couldn’t dream of, like guard a 4, so James Worthy can guard a 3, while Michael Cooper and Byron Scott torture a back court (just an example). The defensive difference between the two is much much smaller then it’s portrayed by all-defensive selections. That’s all i was really trying to bring light to.
http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

good point. smh
LakeShow

Co-Sign all this.
LakeShow

precisely, if Vlad Rad has the same defensive rating as Kobe, there is something wrong with the statistic lol…
shockexchange

Pau Gasol / Andrew Bynum at the same ____ time, to be exact.
http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

oh thank tha lawd a Lakers fan who (magically? lol) can see a Kobe sitaution subjectively.
Caboose

Let’s make it simple. He isn’t the greatest player to wear a Lakers jersey, but he has accomplished more than any other player while wearing a Lakers jersey. Fair?
charliewinning

You don’t really watch games if you think he deserved those All Defensive nods. Three is actually an accurate number of deserved spots on that team.
eric

You lie.
LakeShow

Just to make my opinion on this clear…

Magic is the greatest. I don’t even have to give the reasons why. (Unless you need me to)

Kobe has a chance to usurp Magic.

In order to do this he would need to win 1 more championship as the best or 2nd best player on the team. He would need to get to at least 3rd on the scoring list all time and another Finals MVP would be the cherry on top to make him the toast of LA, but that is allot of ‘if’s’ and until/if these ‘if’s’ become reality then we can talk about who the greatest Laker may be.

As of now it’s:

Magic

Kobe

Kareem

West

Baylor(How does a 6’5″ guy average 20 rebounds a game!!!???)

Wilt
Junior Taylor

To each his own but I wholeheartedly disagree with the Logo. In terms of the greatest Lakers it’s Magic (3 Finals MVP, 3 MVPs, 5 rings and single-handily along with Bird/MJ revolutionized the League), Kobe (30K points, 2 Finals MVP and 5 rings), West (only player ever to win Finals MVP on the losing team) then Shaq (3 straight Finals MVPs). I left out KAJ and Wilt simply because their prime were spent on different teams.
http://www.facebook.com/jay.brodes Jay Brodes

i am a die hard kb fan. i am leaning to the mamba but i may have to give it to magic. he lost to mj in 91, zeke in 89, and bird in 84. kb lost to a a very good celts team in 2008 and a bad pistons team in 2004. if you want to judge that i go magic but kb should have more than 1 mvp..that is a travesty!
everynowhere

No i watched him play. His entire career in fact. look i’m not a kobe fan so don’t think i’m defending him but he deserved at least 5 of them 2000-2004. The rest i’ll agree with you.
ByAnyMeansNecessary

You most likely weren’t around then. No need to prove anything to you or anyone else. Most of the people who used to comment before the new system came around are no longer here. We had a lot of LeBron/Kobe discussions during the 07-10 years and I was arguing for Kobe until 2010. Either you were here or you weren’t.
LakeShow

Caaaaause u can’t…
Been reading comments for 5 years…
Conor

Jerry West is a Kobe fan.

Jerry West Considers Kobe Bryant the Greatest Laker Ever

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