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Wednesday, February 6th, 2013 at 5:15 pm  |  59 responses

David Stern Expects HGH Testing in the NBA Next Season


As had been expected for some time now, testing for Human Growth Hormone (HGH) is making its way to the NBA, and fast. According to Commissioner David Stern, it could be in place as early as next season. Per WCCO (via SI): “We watch what’s going on in baseball, we watch the negotiations that are going in with football, and it is my expectation that by next season [we] will be doing blood testing for HGH,’ Stern said. ‘Our players have been terrific. They lead this in some ways, saying, ‘ We do not want to have anything less than the best.’ That’s been the way it’s been since 1983.’ [...] ‘If I say I don’t have a concern, everyone says I’m a Pollyanna,’ Stern said. ‘I don’t have any reason to know one way or another. My guess is and my hope is that it’s not widely used in the NBA.’”

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  • D_B

    He will retire the longest commissioner in sports history and still he “guesses” and “hopes” that “it isn’t widely used in the NBA”. What a joke. The NBA should steal a line from the WNBA when it comes to drug scandal…We Got Next.

  • Max

    Question, if say someone who is 25 years old takes the HGH, does he still grow? Or is it to get bigger with muscles and stuffs?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    ZERO chance this happens by next year.

    .

    the player’s will get enough time to get clean before this comes into affect.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i mean yes there is a chance. but it isn’t enough, or applied in a way that would really do anything drastic to a player’s height.

  • w mitbrodt

    *cough* Lebron *cough*

  • zogs19994

    *COUGH* JOSE CALDERON *COUGH*

    …..LOOOOOOOL

  • http://twitter.com/AdonKay Adnan K

    Some of you guys in here have no idea what you’re talking about… do some research on the subject first or don’t talk at all. First off HGH is not some synthetic lab made drug, I mean it is, but HGH is produced naturally by your body, so you’re taking something your body already produces. A human’s growth plates fuse by the time they hit 21, it’s impossible to grow after that. And natural HGH production in the body drastically drops around the time you’re 30. Taking HGH what it does to your body is it helps regrow ligament tissue (this is the reason it’s taken for injuries) and it’s the only thing that can make your body grow whole new fibers of muscle tissue as if you were genetically predisposed to have grown them anyway (steroids don’t even do this).

    In my opinion HGH should be absolutely legalized in all professional sports just for it’s benefit in healing injuries. Look at the latest HGH case for example Ray Lewis , guy tears a tricep (which is something that takes months to heal, not to mention the rehab and hard work to get you back after) dude came back within weeks and played just as good if not better than he did before.

    We want to see our athletes healthy and playing well as fans, and the teams and corporations controlling these teams making profits off these teams want to see the same thing because they make more profit with Derrick Rose out there breaking ankles as opposed to him sitting at home WITH a broken ankle. This is why there will ALWAYS be a drug problem in professional sports, there are too many players at work in this it’s that simple. Doping agencies will never win the war and they love throwing the word “cheat” around, how is something cheating if everyone is on it? best they could do is regulate it

  • http://twitter.com/AdonKay Adnan K

    contrary to what NBK says, like I said in my article up there a human’s growth plates fuse at 21 years of age, impossible to grow any more past that age.

  • Ugh

    So erase the problem by redefining it? You’d should run for office with sophistry like that.

  • http://twitter.com/AdonKay Adnan K

    Well first off, it’s not a problem in my opinion and the opinion of many MANY professional athletes since a majority of them are users so obviously are pro PED. Bring me a valid point in this PED discussion that can dismantle the argument of injury recovery and then we can talk.
    The problem is everything is up in the air right now especially with all this Lance Armstrong stuff going on, politicians are panicking so whenever that happens stupid moves tend to be made.

    I guarantee you when all the smoke clears in a few years or so, there will be a controlled PED substance program in place for many pro sports leagues… it’s progress that you can’t fight against. Go take a look at Formula 1, perfect analogy there, wherein a few years ago they tried to restrict and dumb down tech advancements in these cars in order to even the playing field give everyone a chance to “catch up” And the only thing that happened is team engineers ended up brainstorming on a level never before seen resulting in the creation of more advancements in these last few years than we’ve seen in the last 15 or 20 in that sport.
    Same principle applies here with the PED’s, you try to put the law down restrict restrict, and the problem will not only get bigger, but also more complicated and even more out of control than it was to begin with.
    They can avoid all that by figuring out how to regulate now, but instead they will waste years until they realize they can’t win that battle, taxpayer money and valuable resources that could have gone somewhere else down the drain, and you’re good with that bro ?

  • http://twitter.com/Jzakoni Sanchez

    lol

  • michael

    so your saying that they should legalise ped or hgh use only for injury recovery in a program – but not for performance enhancement intentionally? im not well versed on hgh- what are its exact benefits- i know it aids recovery time- and so it allows athletes to train longer and harder- and therefore put on muslce faster, go for longer , etc.
    seems like an area that will be abused regardless. maybe if it was controlled it would be better- it s a interesting view and a solution. but ethically. i think is where people still have a problem. the association- is that anything outside ur natural body that gives an advantage is cheating- but hgh and testosterone are created naturally- and some people have more than others. sleeping in a high altitude vacuum bed improves hormone levels and aids recovery also- but thats legal, but there s an issue when it is synthetic and ingested for some reason.
    its a tough issue to get ones morals around. there are intelligent arguments on either side.

  • Happy

    But there wasn’t always a drug problem in pro sports. Granted, the period of PED-free athletes was a long long time ago, but that just goes to show you the superiority of yesteryears athlete. Barry Bonds will never be in the same league as The Babe, nor will Dwight Howard be in the same league as Wilt.

    I do think the Congressional hearings are a silly waste of money, and an intentional distraction by politicians. That having been said, even with the regulation you speak of there will always be those that will break the rules. That’s a fact of life. Those people are indeed cheaters and people like myself and millions of other fans will always think so. The whole “everybody’s doing it” attitude lends nothing to your argument, as the same thing can be said of any frowned upon issue. I think your only valid point is the healing aspect of HGH. When it comes to severe, career threatening injuries it’s a slippery slope when defining such things. You’d have to come up with standards for such injuries, as well as designating the individuals define these standards.

    Also, you cannot simply decide that you’re not going to discuss amateur sports and PEDS. High school and college athletes are using. How do we regulate them? Where do they fit into your plans? I’m genuinely interested in your thoughts on the issue, because you cannot possibly be so naive as to think these kids don’t follow the lead of pro athletes. They’re doing it only because of these guys.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    that is false. Not every human on earth is the same.
    .
    Hi, my name is Paul George, i’ve grown 2 inches in the last year

  • patrick

    ah screw it,,screw drug desting…

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    The problem is, you are talking about the correct use of HGH. Athletes using it for performance and recovery do not fit into that category. And run the risk of suffering major major health implications.
    .
    http://www.news-medical.net/news/2008/02/13/35208.aspx
    .
    Your argument is rather ignorant to be honest. Making it legal for all athletes would be downright stupid.

  • 23

    Don’t mention wilt in the same sentence as Dwight.

  • Happy

    Don’t comment unless you understand what you are reading.

  • Mike Mihalow

    lol, so many players are gonna be much smaller next season. Or just banned.

  • kdawg

    I would love to watch any sport with every player jacked up on steroids. Not saying i’m in support of it, but it would be very interesting watching athletes on some other level sh*t.

  • http://twitter.com/AdonKay Adnan K

    I’m ignorant and you’re the guy that stated in another reply below that the human body can grow past adulthood, lol, every scientist in the world has a bone to pick with you right about now…. so you automatically disqualified yourself from this discussion, g’day sir!

  • http://twitter.com/AdonKay Adnan K

    Yea my opinion and the opinion of pretty much every pro athlete that they should implement controlled PED substance programs. Most of these athletes are on it everyone knows that, they would love to be able to use these substances without being judged and discriminated against.

    I mean if anyone can seriously go right up and tell Derrick Rose to his face that he’s a cheating piece of crap because he used some HGH to help with the ligament regrowth on his destroyed knee. Or Brandon Roy a guy for whom we shed a tear every time he’s mentioned, here’s a guy who’s desperately trying to hold onto HIS DREAM of playing professional sports, sacrificing HIS OWN FUTURE, I mean this dude will probably be in a wheel chair by the time he’s 50…
    And we’re gonna sit here and shake our heads at them righteously and whatnot ? I mean who are these “righteous” people ? they’re politicians, they’re law making nerds who have never spent a day on the field of a sport, yet here they sit judging what goes on in the circles of professional sports because of the misunderstanding we the public have about PED’s and WE the stupid public put pressure on them to ban these substances.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Science is fun when you do it right.
    .
    21 is the AVERAGE age a male stops growing (bones fuse). AVERAGE.
    .
    “Many people claim that you can continue to grow past the age of 21 with the range of ages growth is thought to end spanning all the way to 27. Others meanwhile believe that we can not grow past the age of 17. This is because the truth is actually more complicated and there is no ‘set age’ where we all stop growing. Instead we stop growing at the age that our growth plates close, and this changes from individual to individual, presumably determined genetically.”
    .
    “If you are 21 then and you are not happy with your height, it does not necessarily mean that you should give up as there will still be a chance that your growth plates haven’t closed (only an x-ray can tell you this). The best way then to improve your growth during this point is to increase the amount of growth hormone in your body by getting more sleep, and also by taking hot showers and exercising which also results in more growth hormone. ”
    .
    .
    http://www.healthguidance.org/entry/13393/1/Can-You-Grow-Taller-After-the-Age-of-21.html

    You are ignorant on this subject. This information should help. Research is a friend, when you gonna boast off about something and be so passionate, it’s smart to make sure you aren’t ignorantly doing so.

    Good day.

  • http://twitter.com/AdonKay Adnan K

    Well firstly to you and all the people who say the “everyone is doing it” argument is baseless and nonsense, I need an explanation of how so ?
    How do you cheat at something when the playing field is nice and level ?
    I mean how can you? literally ? it’s like everyone is taking the same math test in a classroom and everyone has their cheat sheets underneath their desk, yet by some logic the fact that everyone really IS doing it is flatly ignored and scoffed at ? there’s no logic, no common sense there… and it makes no sense either to try to apply that argument to everything or anything else like you suggested.

    I think as the first step they definitely need to implement controlled HGH use for recovery and injury purposes, this is very important and if you ask any athlete they’ll tell you the first thing on their want list is HGH.
    From there they could take a few years learning and working together with all the “shady” entities that provide the athletes with such services to establish a protocol for the various PED’s and their use.
    Steroids and all that, honestly I’m not a fan of the hardcore synthetic drugs or any of that other stuff that your body doesn’t naturally produce. That’s the line I don’t want to cross.
    People call a steroid user a cheater, I have no problem with that, but when you tell me Ray Lewis or Brandon Roy cheated in order to come back and be able to play the sport that earns them a living, to call them cheaters because they used a substance their body already produces, that’s where my drawn line is right there.

    As far as Amateur sports, no… I spoke specifically about Professional Sports Leagues. I know full well there’s kids in high school and the NCAA using these drugs in a hurry to pump themselves full of this stuff before entering the pros, because they know they’re also entering a world of juiced up beasts, and they don’t want to go in with any disadvantages. And think about that for a second, that’s the most important sentence point I can probably say on the subject… The fact that before, being young and coming out of College/University/High School, that years ago the young kids coming out into the pros were the ones with the advantage with their youth and amazing bodies who were at their absolute peak…. that it’s come to the point where this isn’t the case anymore, now they pretty much have to juice themselves prior to the pros….
    And in my opinion this is real messed up and it’s not the natural order of things, IF regulated PED use was implemented, it would at least restore some normalcy to this already screwed up situation we got on our hands right now.

    And let’s face it only the high school system is really amateur, we all know the NCAA is run like a business and doesn’t carry the term professional only so the various entities involved can continue to make ridiculous amounts of money off it’s athletes without having to pay them anything more than a 50 thousand dollar scholarship and whatnot.

  • http://twitter.com/AdonKay Adnan K

    haha, oh my goodness guy……. please stop…. do us all a favor and just stop…..
    you remind me of one of those nerds from school who’s trying to convince people of something because his mama told him it was so

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    awe, little buddy likes to talk about science, but not actually observe it. i bet you are still this passionate about the existence of the Easter bunny too (which is coming up, aren’t you excited?). thinking player’s want PED’s just to keep their dreams alive. The most competitive human beings on earth, want something (HGH) that they could (ab)use to beat everyone else legalized JUST to remain healthy? and all boys stop growing at 21, we were all created equal. LOL, the naivety from you is so cute. never grow up Peter Pan. everyone prefers your childlike innocence.
    .

  • Happy

    You can’t speak so absolutely without data to back it up, and since the ones using are lying and will continue to lie, you can’t get numbers to back up your argument of the playing field being totally level. You can’t say definitively that every single pro athlete even wants to take PEDS. You have enough guys in each sport who barely like training the normal way. Should they be put in a position where they are forced to not compete or compete taking drugs they don’t want to? The idea that every single pro athlete on earth has a desire to deal with the after effects of PEDS is not only false but unrealistic. Derek Jeter had as much access to PEDS as any other MLB player, but he chose not to. Can you say for sure that guys like him would choose to partake simply because it would be legal? No you can’t, and it’s wrong for anyone to decide for them.

    Ray Lewis is definitely a cheater, and HGH is a PED for a reason. At his age, he wouldn’t be able to compete at that level without it so yes, he’s cheating. There is a reason your body produces less of certain hormones when you get older, so your point about it being naturally occurring is irrelevant. So is testosterone, but should the ban on that also be revoked? Adrenaline too.

    Again, you cannot disregard amateur sports in this discussion, regardless of whether or not you feel they deserve the title ‘amateur’. What happens in the pro’s trickles down, whether you care to address it or not. You cannot regulate this issue at one level of athletics–the influencing level for all others–without coming up with a real, systemic plan. That’s makes zero sense, and it’s dangerous. You can’t just say “no, not you guys”. Why not? Do you realize that that increased and sanctioned usage on the top level will lead to increased usage on lower levels of athletics? The dangers of pro athletes using are the same as for amateurs.

  • Happy

    Dude, the word “average” doesn’t mean “definitely everyone”. You have zero scientific data that states growth beyond 21 for a normal person is humanly impossible. It’s not actually as uncommon as you might think.

    Also, remember that gigantism is a disease in which the human body does just that.

  • 23

    Wilt is an all time great. Dwight is not. Period. Athletically, Dwight isn’t much, he looks big. But he has no idea how to use his size/strength efficiently. Dude looks physically impressive and ccan jump high, but that’s about it.

  • http://twitter.com/AdonKay Adnan K

    Well your comments describe this to be as much of a problem as my comments do. That’s why they should START SOMEWHERE and implement SOMETHING to get the ball rolling. To have some sort of basis, to have some sort of understanding and to get a grasp on the issue.

    Because I’ll tell you honestly right now, your argument wins 15 maybe even 10 years ago, but mine does right now today, and anytime within these last few or more years. And that’s where we’re at right now, today, so we need to deal with the issue considering the state of the sport today.

  • http://twitter.com/AdonKay Adnan K

    You’re misunderstanding, he’s NOT comparing the two as players as much as he’s just comparing the circumstances of the days they played in.

  • Happy

    I honestly thought that was super obvious but I guess not lmao

  • Happy

    Other than your understandable p.o.v that a lot of guys are going to do it anyway, what is your issue with banning PEDs? Aside from idiotic interference from politicians, what harm is the ban doing that makes it worse than legalizing the use?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Science is fun when you do it right.
    .
    21 is the AVERAGE age a male stops growing (bones fuse). AVERAGE.
    . http://www.healthguidance.org/entry/13393/1/Can-You-Grow-Taller-After-the-Age-of-21.html
    Good day.

  • http://twitter.com/AdonKay Adnan K

    Well first the way I see it and many others as well, a ban simply won’t work… they’ve had bans for quite a few things for a number of years and what happened was there just ended up being more advancements and developments during this time with bigger better badder and more dangerous drugs.
    Like I mentioned in my Formula 1 analogy, they made their most technological advancements in the last few years during the strict rules that were imposed upon them, than they did the previous 20 years combined.
    So the same principle will apply here in sports, because what the athletic bodies really want to do is GET CONTROL of the situation, and they’re ignorant in thinking a flat out ban will accomplish this because the same thing will happen in sports with PED’s that happened with F1 tech in Formula 1.

    Basically and most simply put, as long as they take the strict ban stance they will never know what goes on behind the closed doors of the PED scene. But if they allow CONTROLLED use, they will at least get through the door and manage to see at least what’s going on. And from there, some real progress could finally be made. They could figure out what’s ok to use, and what is absolutely inhuman, and work with the athletes to find some middle ground on the issue.
    I mean I’m sure most of these guys don’t wanna do the Lance Armstrong blood transfusion stuff, but they’d love them some HGH…

    The way it is right now, the two sides people would assume are on opposite ends of the field in regards to the situation, but for athletes most of them would say they’re at the 50 yard line waiting for the other side to come and talk.

  • http://twitter.com/AdonKay Adnan K

    hahaha, how old are you kid, really ?

    Listen, when an adult tells you the sun is white, you need to listen and believe that adult, because the adult knows what your eyes don’t.
    Your eyes right now are telling you the sun is yellow because when you look up at the sky it’s yellow, and you’ve always used a yellow crayon in kindergarten to color the sun in, so that’s what you firmly believe.. and that’s ok, because you’re a little kid, and I don’t discuss grown up things with little kids, it ruins their innocence.
    But come talk to me in a few years, maybe I can teach you a little something about the birds and bees too little buddy.

  • http://twitter.com/AdonKay Adnan K

    and did you really just try to pass of some backyard internet article that mentions “breaking your own legs and pulling them apart” to get you taller… pass off such an article as scientific fact ?
    bwahahahaha

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    lol, you realize to make that point work you would need to have actually said something that makes your opinion seem smart right?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    that is a real procedure you ignorant dummy.
    .
    http://digitaljournal.com/article/320199

  • Happy

    See, if I’m a league commissioner I don’t see how legalizing PEDS would help my league. You still haven’t figured out what should be done with athletes that don’t want to take the drugs. Should they not be allowed to compete fairly without putting things in their bodies that they don’t want to? If there is one player in a league of 300 that doesn’t want to take PEDS, then that’s enough to ban them. Take drugs or be content not excelling? That’s not going to go over well on any level. Not with the athletes or the public.

    Also your analogy to car parts in Formula 1 doesn’t fully work because we aren’t just dealing with the equipment, we are dealing with the human body, which puts the issue way above an athletic one. Drugs and hormones are medical issues first and foremost. Who should finance YEARS of scientific research? The leagues? Why should they invest in something they don’t want affecting their brands in the first place? There is the issue of public perception, which can cost them billions of dollars. No one gives a damn about watching A-Rod go for the all-time home run record anymore. Not when they know the guy he’s chasing put that record up there without drugs. The NBA scoring record wouldn’t mean as much to fans if they knew a guy had to juice to reach Kareem’s level. They will feel cheated, and leagues will feel it financially as disinterest grows. Athlete’s are dumb enough to put their bodies at risk taking substances researched for short periods of time with extremely small samples sizes. Why do you think pro leagues should appease them at their own expenses?

  • LeroyShonuff

    Barry was better than Babe before he “allegedly” used HGH… try again

  • LeroyShonuff

    I agree completely. If that is cheating then so is Gatorade and the Florida Gators of the 60′s should be stripped of their titles

  • Happy

    Says you. “Allegedly”? lmfao when has Bonds ever flat out denied using PEDS. GTFOH

  • Happy

    That makes zero sense whatsoever. Gatorade is comparable to hormones? Aside from replenishing lost electrolytes from excessive perspiration, what exactly makes them similar? Please show me the data that displays similar performance enhancements from gatorade and hormones. That’s just a retarded thing to say. That’ like saying eating food is the same thing as taking extra hormones. Are normal foods PEDS too?

  • http://twitter.com/AdonKay Adnan K

    Whoever wouldn’t want to use it, their choice it’s up to them.

    I think the F1 Analogy works perfect, at the end of the day in both cases it’s about progressing in a field, whether that field is automotive technology or the PED field.

    Who should finance years of research ? I don’t understand this, because well nobody has too, I mean the two opposing sides already have their setups, the governing bodies have their scientists doing their thing, and the athletes have their “off the books” people heavily invested into the same thing. All they have to do is get together and continue their work towards a unified goal. If anything, this will streamline the process cutting costs as opposed to spending more money by both sides fighting one another.

    Issue of negative public perception in sports? this doesn’t really even exist anymore, I mean look what it takes to get the public to turn against a program or a team with the Penn State scandal, these days it takes something THAT drastic to get people to finally tune out. We live in a world where all you have to do is change your jersey number and win a championship to be completely forgiven for raping someone (Kobe) in a world where the the NBA or any other league can lockout and strike basically giving fans the finger, and on opening day the “public” will greet them with open arms as if nothing happened.

    I guarantee you most owners if not all of them, are more worried about when their star player/cash cow will come back from an injury by any means necessary, than they are about negative public perception from the few fans who are still clueless to what exactly is normal within the ranks of professional sports. Because at the end of the day they know that most fans want to see IS their team and it’s players all on the field performing, and they will turn the other cheek for almost any of their transgressions. That’s the world we live in today.

  • Happy

    I don’t think you fully understand the enormity of what you are saying. First off, it would take years of research and millions of dollars for any pro- league in this country to go against the guidelines and wishes of the FDA and pretty much thousands of doctors who have an issue with PEDS from a medical point of view. They’d have to make sure 1000% that the long term effects aren’t such that they’d be open to lawsuits down the road, the way the NFL is with the concussion situation. The FDA has yet to change its stance on HGH use in adults and athletes. You are looking at this from a very limited perspective. Tell the Yankees that they shouldn’t care about finding a loophole to get rid of A-Rod, because they are. No league in this country will publicly allow an environment that encourages or condones the use of substances that the medical community would discourage. It would take a complete overhaul of scientific opinion before it would even be left up to any league to decide in the first place. Good luck finding a large number of reputable researchers to do a complete 180 in their scientific opinions of these side effects. http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/performance-enhancing-drugs/HQ01105. Even if they were legally allowed to not ban certain substances, they won’t risk being blamed for increase youth PED use. You have to be naive as hell to believe any sports league can overcome the bad PR of basically saying “We don’t care that our athletes influence your kids to use PEDS”. That’s not even based on reality. Athletes get suspended for arrests because leagues are so image-concious. David Stern didn’t even allow Allen Iverson to release a damn rap album because he didn’t want the bad press. Teams have character clauses in contracts. C’mon man, you gotta be realistic here.

    Pretending that that PED use becomes accepted amongst most professional medical opinions, AGAIN, you have yet to address the fairness of telling athletes if you don’t partake in PED use, the playing field will not be level for you. There is absolutely nothing at all moral, ethical, or safe about creating or sanctioning a work environment where success is built on one’s willingness to expose their bodies to substances they don’t want to. You easily dismissed it by saying, “they don’t have to”, but do you realize that a league would place itself in an awkward legal position due to possible wage losses for those who won’t partake in PED use? What lawyers would walk into a U.S courtroom and argue that an athlete should be willing to use drugs or accept that his wage opportunities we not be equal to those who do? That’s a labor issue whether you see it or not.

    Things aren’t as simple, as “get rid of the ban”. You have yet to post one benefit that outweighs the benefits of PED bans. The whole everyone is doing it argument is not something anyone in power is going to look at when deciding to lift a ban on PEDs. There are too many bigger issues at stake, and frankly it doesn’t appear worth it.

  • http://twitter.com/AdonKay Adnan K

    the FDA ? don’t even get me started on them, the same jackasses responsible for America being the most obese and unhealthiest people in the world ? And professional athletes in their physical peaks, I’d assume one would guess how they feel about the FDA and their rules and regulations. And yea I think anything short of mass pedophilia Penn State style wouldn’t irreparably damage a sports organization in the good ole US of A. That’s not being naive at all, that’s calling it how it is.

    And I’m sure I’m overlooking all the good legal arguments you bring up, I’m not trying to lay out a bulletproof plan on “How to implement PED’s in Pro Sports” in this thread. I came in and voiced an athletes opinion and somehow you baited me into trying to implement a full fledged legal plan on how to introduce controlled PED use in professional sports. Well played sir, well played..

    but I’m just making an athletes point of view, that should be clear enough by now… and our views differ, I see this from an athletes perspective, I’ve been around and competed in high level athletics for years, so I’ve been around enough pro, semi pro and casual athletes in my 30 years of life to know what our mutual goals as athletes are.
    So I do firmly believe, and in reality it makes more sense that the athletes point of view is what really matters here, because this is about them, and not some pencil pushers who don’t know the difference between and MCL and ACL. And I’ll tell you one thing, yea sure supreme court, this court n that court hold a lot of sway in the land, but I’ll tell you another American truth, that Unions are nothin to f#*k with…. and these player unions they got nowadays, they go hard, believe that.

  • Happy

    Dude I’m not arguing that the FDA is a benevolent organization. I’m simply arguing that for better or worse, their opinion matters and it has an affect on what any sports league can do with regards to this issue. It’s flies in the face of reason to argue that leagues will go against this to appease athletes, when they will be blamed for youths using PEDS even more than they already are. That doesn’t even make sense, especially because it’s part of the reason sports commissioners have publicly taken such a hard stance. They’ve publicly spoken out against the message pro athletes send to youth about PED use. They’ve spoken out about their brands being tarnished. Aside from the fact that athlete’s want to do it, there is no incentive to legalize in sports. There’s plenty of incentive to keep it banned.

    I get that you are arguing from an athlete’s perspective, but there is a reason people don’t consult athletes on issues of drug and hormone use. It’s the same reason you don’t go to your lawyer for medical advice or your doctor for legal advice, or your grocer for financial advice. PEDs are a medical issue. You are talking about doing an about face on an issue bigger than a dude swinging a bat or scoring a touchdown. That’s where you are wrong. It’s not about the athletes, it’s about business. Going against medical advice coupled with negative public opinion is a recipe for massive losses. Why do you think the public was largely unsympathetic in athletic labor disputes? All people see are millionaires battling billionaires. You think mom and dad will be spending money to see Lebron James and Adrain Peterson if it became public that David Stern and Roger Goodell are okay with them encouraging their kids to use PEDS to get ahead? That’s silly.

    I’ll tell you something else, the sports league with the most powerful player’s union is MLB, where big stars have gotten 50 game bans for getting caught using PEDS. The NBPA, which is a disaster right now, got bent over in their last two collective bargaining sessions with the NBA. Football? Forget it. You already know their union doesn’t stand a chance. They already have the worst contracts for the most dangerous contact sport in this country. Don’t put too much stock in the power of these unions. We’ve already seen they haven’t won these fights. This fight is the least likely to be won by them. Anyways, great conversing with ya. At least you aren’t ignorant on the topic.

  • http://twitter.com/AdonKay Adnan K

    Likewise bro, I appreciate you going back and forth with me…
    I understand what you’re saying as well, I see both sides of the issue pretty clearly, but only agree with one, because I got no choice really, I’m an athlete myself, not gonna side with suits on this one.

  • roscoe

    He’s trying to spread “bro-science” to the masses… lol.

  • roscoe

    when barry bonds was in college in Arizona he would challenge all the pro players in spring training to hitting contest which included his rule of moving 10 to 15 feet closer to the pitching machine.

    no one, i mean no one, would dare take him on as he smoked fastballs over the fence continuously.

    what is unfortunate about bonds is he was a legitimate baseball superstar that had all the tools and would have been an all time great if he had never used PEDs (allegedly, i guess, i don’t know the legal truth of what he did or got caught with), but instead he will be remembered as the most exciting “PED-era” baseball player ever.

    bonds was pure electricity & a goose bump generating amazement and he made the sports world stop when he stepped in the box.

  • roscoe

    Not to mention the nba is the “king of sports marketing” and they will steer this thing to make regulators happy as well as ensure players don’t test positive…

    i kind of wonder if the nba has been quietly removing players or fixing issues behind the scenes over the past few years.

    personally, i believe they should clean it up, but i know a lot of ppl disagree.

  • roscoe

    i think your neglecting the fact that players are sophisticated and wealthy enuf to get away with the things even withstanding a strongly regulated league.

    if we have learned anything from lance armstrong’s debacle it is that atheletes will go to no end to win if using PEDs or procedures help.

  • roscoe

    it is true that most ppl stop growing in height w/ the exception of a few who don’t stop and usually end up dying at an early age, but your muscle can be built well into your 40s & maybe your 50s depending on your body.

    Naturally, a male can put 7 to 10 pounds of muscle on per year (that is max from what i know).

    HGH or PEDs, a male can put 25 pounds of muscle on per year (from what i’ve heard “rumor”).

    Keep in mind… HGH or PEDs are extremely hard on your organs and cause all types of health problems later on down the road.

    the major reasons HGH or PEDs are prescribed are to boost immune systems when ppl have major illnesses. i ain’t a doc but all this information is easily found on wikipedia or even webmd.

  • roscoe

    that simply is not the truth for everyone.

    it is rare that someone does not stop growing, but i think you’re mistaken Adnan K.

  • roscoe

    it’s great we’re all not the same.

    some ppl shrink!

  • http://twitter.com/AdonKay Adnan K

    oh really ? off course there are some cases where a person will grow a little bit past the age of 21, but those are extremely rare cases.
    You and that other nimrod NBK need to understand I wasn’t stating just my opinion, I was stating scientific fact. You can’t debate or question what science has already proven, I mean gotdang how ignorant do you have to be to do that

  • roscoe

    Science continues to bring forth new findings everyday… debating and questioning is what makes science great bud.

    u have some points but ur subjectivity is hurting your message.

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