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Monday, April 29th, 2013 at 11:25 am  |  442 responses

Jason Collins Comes Out as Gay


Washington Wizards center Jason Collins announced today that he is gay, becoming not only the first active NBA player to come out, but the first active male athlete in any major American pro team sport to take such a big step. Jason tells his story in this week’s SI: “I’m a 34-year-old NBA center. I’m black. And I’m gay. I didn’t set out to be the first openly gay athlete playing in a major American team sport. But since I am, I’m happy to start the conversation. I wish I wasn’t the kid in the classroom raising his hand and saying, ‘I’m different.’ If I had my way, someone else would have already done this. Nobody has, which is why I’m raising my hand. My journey of self-discovery and self-acknowledgement began in my hometown of Los Angeles and has taken me through two state high school championships, the NCAA Final Four and the Elite Eight, and nine playoffs in 12 NBA seasons. I’ve played for six pro teams and have appeared in two NBA Finals. Ever heard of a parlor game called Three Degrees of Jason Collins? If you’re in the league, and I haven’t been your teammate, I surely have been one of your teammates’ teammates. Or one of your teammates’ teammates’ teammates. Now I’m a free agent, literally and figuratively. I’ve reached that enviable state in life in which I can do pretty much what I want. And what I want is to continue to play basketball. I still love the game, and I still have something to offer. My coaches and teammates recognize that. At the same time, I want to be genuine and authentic and truthful. [...] I realized I needed to go public when Joe Kennedy, my old roommate at Stanford and now a Massachusetts congressman, told me he had just marched in Boston’s 2012 Gay Pride Parade. I’m seldom jealous of others, but hearing what Joe had done filled me with envy. I was proud of him for participating but angry that as a closeted gay man I couldn’t even cheer my straight friend on as a spectator. If I’d been questioned, I would have concocted half truths. What a shame to have to lie at a celebration of pride. I want to do the right thing and not hide anymore. I want to march for tolerance, acceptance and understanding. I want to take a stand and say, ‘Me, too.’”

Related: NBA Players React to Jason Collins Coming Out

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  • http://twitter.com/stepfdelaghetto Stepfan Raiford

    I thought John Amaechi was the first? Or did he come out while he was retired?

  • slamfan4life

    Good for him

  • DreJayAre

    His post moves and post defense will improve dramatically now. For sure.

  • Roy

    respect, great speech.

  • Joey

    Imma stop the Chris bosh comments before they start, don’t do it people..

  • http://slamonline.com/ Ben Osborne

    Way to go, Jason. Much respect.

  • melvo

    Crazy. who knew?

  • Caboose

    Bravo, good sir.

  • Peter Walsh

    Good for him / very brave of him.

  • KevinJohnsonFan

    Good for him doing this. Support and respect.

  • KevinJohnsonFan

    Retired.

  • LP

    welppp…He won’t get another contract, he should have done this while he was signed…..so much controversy coming right up…

  • Max

    Ooh boyyy..

  • BRAVO

    Its funny I always thought he looked a little suspect. @ least we all know now. You are who you are!

  • bike

    Seems like if it’s no big deal, why does anyone have to announce it publicly?

  • Jensen Carp

    I don’t think anybody cares. Which I guess means we are becoming more tolerant? did he need to make a press statement about it though? I think its pretty clear that unnecessary press statements should be relegated to holding multiple franchises in suspense as you decide where you will end your free agency.

  • Perry the PlatyPteranodon

    I hope for the day this doesn’t have to be a news worthy announcement. Good for him, it’s a tough thing to do, much respect for having that much confidence in yourself.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Good for him. Big ups to all that courage.

  • Pais

    Good for him. But I’m glad he skipped the details regarding “The journey of self discovery”.

  • initbruv

    It is a big deal, he’s the first active player to do so.

  • Pais

    “If you’re in the league, and I haven’t been your teammate, I surely have been one of your teammates’ teammates.” Sounds like code, name names Jason.

  • don

    i’m betting on over a hundred comments.

  • http://twitter.com/stepfdelaghetto Stepfan Raiford

    I respect his courage to come out but wouldn’t this be a bigger deal if it was Lebron, KD, or another superstar coming out since they are the face of the NBA and not a journeyman/role player?

  • http://twitter.com/_brandonallen Brandon Allen

    Good for Jason. I felt like he was holding the Nets back as their back up big when they went to the finals though. No offensive game smh…

  • Caboose

    He’s talking about a parlor game, not specific people. Read the whole thing.

  • http://tddaily.com/ Abe Schwadron

    Good for Jason! #WIZARDS!

  • da__biz!

    that took a lot of courage. Way to open the door Jason!

  • Eric

    Courageous. Salute.

  • sefos

    Respect. Let’s hope no one in the NBA says something too stupid about this

  • HAMMER

    Props. Respect.

  • KevinJohnsonFan

    Kobe showing support is huge.

  • The Philosopher

    Shout out @Jason Collins.

  • @mysportsera

    Jason Collins is an irrelevant player, his admission of being gay isn’t going to change anything. People’ll talk about it for a week and forget the guy exists, maybe his homo ass will get a new contract

  • phillygirl

    If would IF THEY WERE GAY!! Him being the first makes this a big deal.

  • robb

    I thought he had came out wearing a Rudy Gay jersey.

  • GuitarSteve

    This shouldn’t even be news but him coming out is helping us as a
    society to get to the point where it wont be news anymore.
    Congratulations Jason on your courage and conviction. Wonder how many
    more will walk through the door he has opened now?

    There are gay people in this world, if you don’t want to see that…stare at the sun.

    Reply

  • LakeShow

    Sad he was closeted so long.

  • JoeMaMa

    This is huge news. How many other athletes from one of the 4 major American sports have come out as gay during their career? This was definitely worthy of a press release. Also, there are rumblings that 4 NFL players will come out on the same day – though I wouldn’t count on it. Good for Jason Collins!! It takes courage.

  • bike

    It’s not supposed to be a big deal if someone is gay regardless of what one does for a living. It’s his prerogative to tell family, friends, teammates, etc. but making a press statement is over the top for the subject these days.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    It’s clearly not over the top if he’s the first one to be openly gay in sports.

  • Jensen Carp

    yeah he’s acting like such a drama que……n/m

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003246310246 Jason Carter

    fagat

  • danpowers

    also sad that it has to be made a topic anyway. if people were a little less religious which is where dooming homosexuallity roots from and a bit more open minded towards homosexuality world wide , we would have had less wars, crime and no population crisis anywhere. nature produces homosexuality among most species between one third and one tenth of any popilation, to oppress that causes alot of inner conflicts for the individual and very unpleasant canalization of groups such a nations with results like militant patriotism, which logically leads to wars and other evils

  • Jermaine Propaine

    wonder how Tim Hardaway feels about this.

  • initbruv

    But it’s a big deal because sports is one of the last bastions of homophobia. It’s been a nice change to see all of these NFL players voicing their support of gay rights and it’s also a big step to have an active player coming out.

  • Otis

    Good for him. Bravo.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003246310246 Jason Carter

    All these fakes on here pretending to be cool with fagotry…smh.

  • The Philosopher

    It depends on how one interprets religion(s).
    Can one really state with honesty that, homosexuality is doomed by religion(s)?
    There are religious people who do not judge homosexuals. There are religious people who have no problems with homosexuals.

  • ThaTgerman

    the world is turnin’ against religion against God – do not expect everybody to do so!!! #trustinTheOneandOnly

  • K_HOLIDAY

    This is a cool moment for society as a whole. Jason Collins may not be the face of the league or franchise, but he now becomes the face of something bigger. Gives a little more hope in the idea that ppl (especially young ppl) dont have to be afraid to be themselves no matter what!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003246310246 Jason Carter

    He just took going Hard in the paint to new Heights.

  • RogerBliddack

    Correction… all these gay rights activists pretending to like the NBA. smh.

  • Lydia

    You know there was a study a few years back that saw a positive correlation
    between homophobia and homosexual arousal. In other words, the more
    homophobic a man was (the more he hated gays and homosexuality), the more likely he was to feel aroused by gay
    pornography.

    Your homophobia doesn’t make you more masculine, fyi.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003246310246 Jason Carter

    I cant stand people like you that use the word “homophobic” with everybody..I just dont approve of that lifestyle and I am entitled to say it where ever I want to, It doesn’t make me a homophobe… get over it.

  • initbruv

    It’s the 21st century. People aren’t pretending to be cool with “fagotry”, they legitimately are cool with it. It grosses me out to think of two dudes being intimate but so what? I’m also grossed out by fat people, old people, and foot fetishes. The point is that it doesn’t make their love any less real.

  • initbruv

    Easily.

  • Steve Williams

    brb, going to tell my gay friends that you don’t approve. will let you know how devastated they are.

  • Pais

    It was a joke

  • initbruv

    Lol exactly.

  • KevinJohnsonFan

    The fact that you think “fagotry” is somehow a clever word is the thing that we should all shake our head at. Also, you even thinking of that word shows that you are indeed homophobic because that F word is a slur. It’s not for you to approve or disapprove of and it’s not for anyone else to approve or disapprove of because neither you nor anyone else is in a position over them to judge it. The word you’re looking for is “agree”. You can agree or disagree. Disagreeing with it is fine.

  • http://twitter.com/apowellAdvocate Allen Powell II

    Not surprising actually.

  • Lydia

    How do you define homophobic? You may not approve of that lifestyle, but why go the extra mile with the disrespect and name-calling? Your comments don’t scream apathy or indifference to me. Yes, you can say whatever you want wherever you want, just as I’m entitled to believe that I think you are indeed homophobic. My relatives and family are Christians, and some of them don’t necessarily “approve” of homosexuality, but nobody in my family goes out of their way to disrespect gay individuals or those that support them.

    And IF you base your approval or disapproval on Christian grounds, then you’re name-calling and disrespect are necessarily reflective of Christian tenets.

  • KevinJohnsonFan

    This is a basketball site so I won’t get deep into it. But the fact that there are people who think that their religion is the only true religion (because it’s theirs) and that every other religion that’s different is wrong makes me laugh.

  • KevinJohnsonFan

    This isn’t a word that someone who claims to not be homophobic says.

  • danpowers

    in religious practice and especially in collective acceptance of the religious tenor homophobia is legitimitatized by the culture of any clergy. that doesnt make all religious people homophobic but this is where homophobic attitude / the dooming of homosexuality got its roots and back up untill today

  • initbruv

    Did God make these men and women gay? Seems like kind of a dick to make someone born an inherent sinner.

  • TRUTH

    Someone has already said it, but I will re-emphasize it. This won’t change anything for one simple fact: HE IS AN IRRELEVANT PLAYER. It’s not like he’s a star or all-star or even signed a huge contract. Most of us didn’t even know who he was (or completely forgot who he was) until this story broke, so to say that he has “opened doors” is not true. Besides, just like there will always be gay people, there will always be people (such as myself) who are not really comfortable around gays or condone homosexuality but will tolerate (not fully accept) it. No matter what side of the debate you’re on, we’re all going to have to learn how to live in this world together and still retain the values and believes that are important to us.

  • jmm

    homophobe  
    ho·mo·phobe [hoh-muh-fohb] Show IPA

    noun
    a person who fears or hates homosexuals and homosexuality.

  • bike

    It’s actually none of anyone’s business, IMO. By all accounts, Collins sounds like a good guy and a good, hardworking teammate. He could have simply begun to live the life he always wanted to live and if anyone asked responded with ‘who cares?’.

  • bringbackthesonics

    if your going to be an asshole, try and put some more effort into it

  • initbruv

    I understand that you’re saying that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality and that it’s no big deal to be gay, therefore he should not feel inclined to tell the world that he is gay. And with 99% of gay people I think that is true. But by doing so as a professional athlete, he is trying to challenge the stigma against homosexuality that has been so prevalent in sports.

  • Thomas

    I sat beside Jason Collins in 2003 on a black jack table in Vegas. We talked and I was really amazed at how genuine, smart, and down to earth the guy was. He was quite funny too and made some people on the table laughed when he kept on fretting over doubling down on $25 dollar bet. Much respect to Jason for Doing this!

  • http://twitter.com/_DFrance DFrance

    I can’t wait until we get to the point where we find out a person is homosexual because they’re spotted out at dinner with their significant other. What’s that? Never gonna happen? Ok, nevermind.

  • danpowers

    hard, lol

  • http://www.facebook.com/evan.boland Evan Boland

    Lmao @ god.

  • http://www.facebook.com/evan.boland Evan Boland

    First of all, look up the definition. I’m not surprised that someone as clearly ignorant as you would not comprehend what it means to be homophobic, but you are. And of that “lifestyle”? It’s not a lifestyle, fool. Religious people are so dumb.

  • MikeC.

    Contrary to popular belief, you are actually not entitled to verbally abuse a minority group, no matter how clever you think you are. There are laws against hate crimes.

  • http://www.facebook.com/evan.boland Evan Boland

    Exactly, haha.

  • http://www.facebook.com/evan.boland Evan Boland

    Religion is ridiculous, it needs to go.

  • Gc6

    Just a money making scam and to give him a bit of relevance, happens every week someone come out as gay it’s not even original anymore

  • danpowers

    maybe not religion itself but how people understand and practice it

  • GC6

    To me it looks like Jason Carter is in the Minority 7 against 1 the maths isn’t that hard for exercising freedom of speech, good for him going against the tide of Liberal abuse

  • GC6

    Brace yourselves here comes the mindless hoard of liberals, who cant see it’s a money making con. He going to make millions off this laughing all the way to the bank

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i think he’s saying the whole idea that it was evil/bad/unacceptable came from religion. not that religion is to blame for the continued ignorance. but it’s roots.

  • GC6

    Freedom of speech

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    this has never happened in american professional (male) sports.

  • Billy Hoyle

    They was setting these fruity picks…Man, I’m not on your team!

  • Billy Hoyle

    Liberal queer…go pack some fudge

  • GC6

    Lmao @ the liberals who fell for it they will buy his jerseys, he will be on the cover of magazines and laughing all the way to the bank nice one Jason take advantage of mindless liberals using the oldest trick in modern age

  • GC6

    Exactly and he’s going to make a ton of money off it, he’s laughing all the way to the bank

  • http://www.facebook.com/evan.boland Evan Boland

    Lmao @ Politics. Stupid Americans.

  • Redd

    Bravo? Dude it’s not a big deal, being gay shouldn’t be a story or applauded like a hard task well done..there’s nothing wrong with it and no one should care if this dude is gay or not.

    Everyone is born different and has their own preferences and Idc what a man or woman prefers. This is a sad run for some traffic by Sports sites.

  • GC6

    Yep just buy his jersey to prove your not homophobic

  • GC6

    While he laugh all the way to the bank

  • danpowers

    didnt john amaechi also have his coming out?

  • MikeC.

    My bad. Apparently attacking someone’s orientation is okay as long as you identify yourself as a conservative or a Conservative. What I should have made more clear is this point, taken directly from the commenting rules on this site: Commenters may be banned for the following: “Make(ing) derogatory comments regarding race, ethnicity, language, gender, sexual orientation or religion.”

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    he is the first person to have the courage to come out. it’s the first step towards everyone accepting it.
    .
    bravo, for your courage.
    .
    it’s good for media to report this, makes understanding more global. Look at the big picture, not everyone has the enlightened views on this that you do. This story is bigger than whether or not YOU understand.

  • Name

    GC6 – You applaud Jason Carter’s vulgarity? Aside from using a gay-slur, what argument did he provide that warranted your support? Unless you see name-calling or over-defensiveness as a type of argument for your cause?

    Rather than applauding him for arguments or responses he never made or elaborated on, why don’t you put your freedom of speech to good use and enlighten us with your own responses? Make a legitimate argument for your views without resorting to some cop-out about liberal abuse or agendas.

  • http://twitter.com/Abigail__D Abigail

    I love that Jason Collins waited 10 season to make this announcement. His paid his dues and Doc Rivers said himself his great guy and a true vet of the game. He doesn’t need anyones approval, he did this because as a man he needed to embrace who he is…but big question now is, who’s going to pick him up next season. *dun*dun*dun*

  • Dagger

    Kudos to Collins, and kudos to most of the visitors to Slam. The vast majority of these comments give me renewed hope for a more inclusive, more understanding future. Good to see that most people here realize that nobody should feel ashamed of who they are.

    Maybe this will help other athletes come out, and, if so, maybe that will help people understand that homosexuality is not a choice, and that homosexuals can be whatever they want to be. Maybe this announcement will convince kids on the verge of suicide that society is changing, that there’s hope for their future, and that it’s okay to be gay.

    Regardless, a good day for the NBA.

  • Dagger

    If only conservatives like you could realize that not everything is about money and self interest.

  • danpowers

    yeah, as if a 10 year down to earth type of nba vet would have to worry about financial security or complain about a lack of wealth. even if he makes some money out of this, its obvious that this one is primarily about making a statement.

    accepting and tolerating other peoples sexuality shouldnt be about being liberal or conservative. what sexuality one has doesnt influence the lives of other people. so why should people who are not gay care? letting homosexuals do their thing is just a matter of inteligence and having to do something better than caring about stuff that isnt one’s business.

  • KevinJohnsonFan

    Also, freedom to look like a complete bigot and be called out on it.

  • KevinJohnsonFan

    Not while he was playing.

  • Bruce Wayne

    You just know it all don’t you

  • Dunleavymvp

    He sucks anyway

  • VanCityBBall

    when i was about to read the comments i was preparing for the worst but it’s nice knowing that humanity does have faith and hopefully more athletes (or perfessionals in general) will follow suit, so those kids going through what he was going through will fell better…

  • danpowers

    kind of, yes. but its not even written in most religion’s books. e.g. scholars still argue weather the bible actually says that homosexuality is wrong but that interpretation and traditional religious tradition claims to have the right interpretation of the hebrew texts to doom homosexuality. i studied study of religions in my minor coursed during my ba. i have to admit that my memory is a bit blurry but i cant remember reading anything like that about original hebrew sources dooming homosexuality and i would remember if i wouldve read anything about proven facts like that

    what i mean is that people should change their approach of how to practice their religion and tabooing any critizism of how the bible has to be interpreted. many things should be changed there

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    by religion, i didn’t mean religious texts. i meant the religious sect of people.

  • initbruv

    You’re thinking about this in terms of what you, as a conniving a**hole, would do. A normal, decent person might just be trying to be honest about who he is.

  • Lydia

    First Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion…

    …is one of the reasons gay marriage will pass in this country, whether you vocally “approve” of it or not.

  • danpowers

    nice to see that the hillbilly department has at least something to feel happy about

  • danpowers

    you wont find any original hebrew bible text dooming homosexuality. you base your oppinion on manipulated translations. thats just the corrupt misuse of power by the conservative religious authorities: they put their interpretation of bible texts in a way to indirectly influence society and directly controll their herd to keep their power. thats not even a conspirancy theory, prove me wrong if you can.

  • GC6

    “He just made a million got another million on his schedule”

  • GC6

    Oh all the dumb liberals who are going to go out and buy his shirts, all the media coverage he will get and maybe even new sponsors, he is laughing all the way to the bank, a publicity stunt no hero in my eyes

  • GC6

    Nice to see him make a couple more million, what a nice publicity stunt. Where have I seen someone come out as gay before?

  • GC6

    I wasn’t homophobic I just like people who go against the crowd, you show me where I attacked him for being gay? I stated it was a publicity stunt which it is and I stand by it I was also pointing out that he was in the minority.

  • GC6

    I applaud him for being honest even though everyone is against him not for the vulgarity. Also WHAT gay slur did I use? stop that political correctness garbage. It’s a money making/ attention seeking con

  • GC6

    Right.. dream on, money rules the world and most peoples decisions. I wish it didn’t but that’s the way it works

  • LP

    couldn’t have said this better… i dont approve of the lifestyle, so I won’t support it at all….That doesn’t mean I’m homophobic……….

  • Caboose

    I love how “enlightened” and “understanding” he’s trying to be. He just comes off not knowing what he’s talking about.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    sometimes in order to get a point across, you have to cater to a person’s ego.

  • Caboose

    Guess what, there’s gay people in the world. And many of them are kissing. Right now. Deal with it.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    no he isn’t. he is a minimum salary player at best. somebody needed to do this, so ignorant people like you can get all their skepticism and questioning out of your system.

  • RunNgun

    Kudos… very brave and courageous of JC.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=509819249 Gaurav P.

    Awesome reply

  • http://www.facebook.com/evan.boland Evan Boland

    I was laughing at your describing people as either “Liberal” or “Democrat” when in reality, the two fall on the same side of the political landscape. The whole system was created just to fool American.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003246310246 Jason Carter

    Gc6 one of the smarter posters on here

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=509819249 Gaurav P.

    Welcome to 2013. Good luck dealing with the fact that homosexuality will continue to be more accepted as the years go by. There’s nothing to not be “cool” with.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=509819249 Gaurav P.

    Thanks for saying this. I’m always disappointed when I come to this board on sensitive topics and ignorant people are upvoting comments that are just as ignorant as they are.

  • Redd

    As a minority idk what I’m talking about?

    So I’m wrong in thinking that simply viewing gays or straights as nothing out of the ordinary? Ok.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=509819249 Gaurav P.

    What’re you, 14 years old? Grow up.

  • EJ

    If people weren’t ridiculous, religion wouldn’t be ridiculous. You can’t simply blame religion.

  • Redd

    How is saying gays and straights are nothing different, me being egotistical?

    Are u really that stupid?:/

  • Jtrain73

    No one really cares. Let’s get back to basketball. It’s 2013 not the hillbilly 1960s.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003246310246 Jason Carter

    Im not abusing anyone, I merely stated my opinion, and you guys got your gay colored feathers ruffled. I dont care who on here says what, your not going to change my way of thinking, so dont waste your time. Im not with this Gay rights movement that is going on these days, It kinda like how people get mad at certain blacks for constantly playing the race card, and i dont blame them..but this gay thing is becoming synonymous. God made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    you sound egotistical because your entire rant is about the whole world overreacting because of something you understand.

    .
    Web definitions
    egotistic: characteristic of those having an inflated idea of their own importance

  • Redd

    Actually he’s NOT the first American player to come out as gay.

    Only the first active player. However, you’re correct in saying it draws attention to the LGBT movement so in that instance I think it’s great.

  • z

    Im with ya. The negatives of religion outweigh the positives at this point. Religion has gotten mixed in with politics/economics in most regions of the world, mixed in to such an extent that all three of these pillars of human civilization (religion/spirituality, politico-economic systems) have become tainted by each other’s collective injustice and hypocrisy. People, though stupid, are perceptive enough to realize that their religions have lost much of their meaning. What this has led to is people not truly believing in what they claim to believe in, which only makes those people (think fred phelps, bin laden, etc) more extremist—their desperation to prove to themselves they believe makes them dangerously close-minded. Unfortunately I’ve just described the vast majority of conservative Christians in the USA

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    you know what you are talking about in that this shouldn’t be an issue.
    you don’t know what you are talking about by complaining that it actually is a big issue.

  • Jg33

    So we don’t need men’s/women’s restrooms from now on.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    yes, by first person i meant active player. John Amaechi as we all know came out in 2007. and in the 90s there was an ex football player, i believe he was a kicker who came out.
    .
    active player changes everything.
    .
    so he’s the first that can truly make a difference.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003246310246 Jason Carter

    Ok so because im not a fan of gays, that makes me immature.. what senseless baseless foolery to post. Read it and Weep.

  • Name

    No one said you said a gay-slur. Re-read the second sentence. Why is everyone against him if not for being homophobic or vulgar?

    I’m not a cynic. Every comment I’ve heard about Jason Collins indicates to me that he is a good, down-to-earth person. Why you are so eager to see or assume the worst in him?

    And it’s not political-correctness, may just be too insensitive, and maybe homophobic yourself. Why are you so invested in this argument anyway? You’re not like the other men on this board who are voicing support for him. I don’t buy that this is only about supporting the minority voice. You seem to want all the other men to be liars? That’s projection when you assume all other people think like you do. So why would you project if that was the case? Do you want other men to dislike homosexuality, just like Jason Carter or you?

  • http://twitter.com/gg_andu Anssi Virtanen

    Good for him :) Much respect for the man!

  • The Seed

    I don’t agree with it, its his choice to like men more than women, Which seems sick to me, but hey it floats his boat. Also cannot stand people comparing their rights to civil rights. ITS NOT THE SAME!! Its not something I again approve of and this is a marketing scheme. He will be applauded and the ambassador for having guts to stand up for something. I will pray for him.

  • Name

    Maybe you are homophobic though? Would you have the self-awareness and the humility to admit it even if you were? I doubt many men who are homophobic would recognize that they are. Maybe you’re far too deep into denial to recognize it in yourself? How would you know it if you became too desensitized?
    If a lot of people tell you you are homophobic, racist, etc., and you you still don’t believe them, but people keep telling you, then the problem actually might be with you! I don’t know how many people it would take for someone to recognize their own prejudices, let alone admit to them?

  • DROB

    CHAPPELLE…PRINCE..LOL

  • http://www.facebook.com/evan.boland Evan Boland

    Nah. Lot’s more than the average American, though. I guess you could say I’m enlightened.

  • http://www.facebook.com/evan.boland Evan Boland

    Too bad he wasn’t a younger player. Because how it happened leads many to believe it was a publicity stunt. Not saying its the case, but why didn’t he come out when he was relevant? Probably because he didn’t want to risk it. Which shows cowardice more than bravery imo.

  • http://www.facebook.com/evan.boland Evan Boland

    No, god did not. There is no adam and eve. The fact that you believe that says a lot about where your prehistoric views come from.

  • Name

    BUT you are abusing people, you are abusing gays by using a gay-slur, which is known as a derogatory slur.

    You can be critical without being vulgar and spiteful. And for someone who claims to believe in God: “Hypocrite! First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend’s eye.”

  • initbruv

    Word

  • MikeC.

    So, you’re saying that you’re a fan of inbreeding then?

  • The Philosopher

    Organized religion, MAYBE.

  • MikeC.

    players don’t actually make any money from jersey sales, so…

  • initbruv

    You think gay people choose their sexuality?

  • The Philosopher

    I don’t know if I totally believe that. For, there is a culture of homosexuality in high religious quarters, and domains.
    Homophobia, I do not know. There are openly gay clergy. Famous men.

  • KevinJohnsonFan

    Define relevance because besides when he started a lot in New Jersey, he’s mostly been a 2nd/3rd string center who came in and made use of his 6 fouls, set a few picks, get some rebounds, maybe get a few putback points. Played on 6 teams. He never was a name that people threw around often. When someone comes out is on them. It’s not on us to tell them when they should have come out and try to speculate on why they didn’t come out at a certain time. Also wouldn’t call it cowardice regardless of why he didn’t come out earlier in his career. Any straight man living in today’s society is in no position to call a gay man who doesn’t want to come out a coward. Why would he just decide now to create a publicity stunt? I don’t see what his motivation for that would be. For a man who still wants to play in the NBA, coming out isn’t exactly the way to make sure that a team signs you. What else could his motivation be?

  • The Seed

    I think and know this and can give you plenty of scenarios backing my stance.

  • The Philosopher

    He’s probably readying to retire.

  • KevinJohnsonFan

    Notice that you two are pretty much outnumbered here. I suggest you join us in 2013 where people actually respect others regardless of how they decide to live their lives especially when it has absolutely no effect on them. Your credibility as a man was shot the minute you used a homophobic slur and in the next minute said you’re not homophobic. Doesn’t work that way. The fact that Gc6 appears to be on your side also flushes his credibility down the toilet. You don’t just disagree with the lifestyle. That word that you used shows that you have hatred for gay people. People who just disagree don’t use that word.

  • KipSmithers

    Good for the guy.

  • The Philosopher

    Respect.

  • http://twitter.com/conorklnohara Conor O’Hara

    Excellent for gay athletes to have an active trailblazer. This will only serve to quell others’ inner reservations & outer (/pathetic critics) who exist in a collective medieval limbo and to propel their resolve. Collins is the Harvey Milk of athletes.

    It’s sad that the gay community requires advocacy in 2013, but they deserve everyone’s support. Religious zealots like Chris Broussard are disgraceful to heterosexuals, worldwide.

    It’s fantastic that basketball is the athletic herald for a modernity of acceptance.

  • http://twitter.com/conorklnohara Conor O’Hara

    A “money making con”? Says the zealot! HaHaHaHa

  • The Philosopher

    Ahh.
    My guy.

  • Billy Hoyle

    And you’re obviously a gay guy…or you are and just don’t know it yet. Maybe You and Gaurav can schedule ur own makeout session.

  • KevinJohnsonFan

    Yes because you have to be gay to acknowledge that there are gay people in the world. Really dude?

  • initbruv

    So you could choose to be gay? Like you could decide today that you are attracted to men? I couldn’t. So I think you may be gay sir.

  • Caboose

    I am willing to bet you:
    1. Deny evolution.
    2. Can’t figure out how to get the bottom Pringles out.
    3. Get offended when someone calls you a Homo Sapien.
    4. Speak “American.”
    5. Think WWE is real.
    6. Have at least one set of cousins who are married.
    7. Hate big government but are on welfare.
    8. See nothing wrong with the Confederate flag.
    9. Have stolen 3D movie glasses for use as sunglasses.
    10. Had an overbearing, unloving father who was never at home and a cruel mother who withheld affection as punishment.

  • Caboose

    Boom

  • GuitarSteve

    Prejudice is prejudice and it aint right.
    So did all us straight guys decide one day to like women or were we born that way? I don’t think many people would see all the hate towards gays and be like ” I gotta get me some of that” and decide to be gay.

  • The Seed

    People do choose to be gay. I like WOMEN, I don’t get that stuff. But there are people who have changed from things I have read from being Gay, to liking WOMEN. You are not born with it and there are studies where if a man is sexually abused by a man he is more likely to become gay. Its cool if that’s your choice, I just don’t agree with it. Please don’t compare to Civil Rights.

  • GuitarSteve

    So how is going to make money off this exactly? Im not buyin anybodies jersey with a 3.5 point scoring avg.

  • nike_head

    As stimulating as this giant argument is, I find it funny that it is going on a SLAM comment thread. Also, good for Jason.

  • DK

    Too many SLAM philosophers… Really starting to ruin my experience everyday.

  • initbruv

    I agree with that.

  • initbruv

    I’m not saying nobody becomes gay through circumstances. That’s different than saying that homosexuality in general is a choice.

  • fruizm

    I dont know why you’re getting negative points for your comment because he indeed looked suspect/nerdy…I really dont care though!

  • fruizm

    Im not homophobic and I dont have a problem with homosexuals…just stay please stay on your lane!

  • fruizm

    *is it IN your lane?

  • http://www.facebook.com/OMGitsKINGDAVID Kinq David II

    LOL

  • LP

    wait. are you trying to get me to support the gay lifestyle??? It’s crazy, you supporters try to get the Non-supporters on board with the gay movement. No thank you. I’m not out committing hate crimes or holding billboards or slapping people with bibles…. I’m respectfully declining to support the movement… I haven’t even said anything offensive. Yet.

  • Caboose

    You wanna explain why gay rights are not civil rights? I always LOVE learning something new.

  • Caboose

    I forgot that the USA is a theocracy. Oh wait, that First Amendment thing means something, right?

  • Caboose

    Also care to explain how you know that being gay is a choice when all of science says it’s not? Again, please grant us insight into that prodigious mind of yours, o great one.

  • Caboose

    Actually, Adam and Eve never existed. Neither did Noah, Cain and Abel, nor the entire book of Exodus. But, y’know, keep rolling with whatever.

  • Billy Hoyle

    Sex is for reproduction…two men playing pitcher and catcher is what?…sick.

    You would probably applaud walking in on ur son taking it from the rear

    Remember God made Adam and Eve…not Adam and Steve.

  • Caboose

    1. So that means if you ever have sex and it doesn’t result in a child, you are a hypocrite.
    2. Homosexuality occurs in the animal kingdom in roughly the same percentage as it does in humans. This is a documented fact. (To any more enlightened people, I’d be happy to share my sources with y’all).
    3. I have no son, but I would have no problem if he was gay.
    4. Adam and Eve never existed. Neither did Noah, Cain and Abel, nor the entire book of Exodus. Feel free to roll with your imaginary friends though, it’s all good.

  • Billy Hoyle

    Just because it occurs between dolphins don’t make it okay…you’re just another blind liberal I’m done here…you probably jack off to yourself in the mirror

  • Caboose

    Funny. So if you’re told that magical sky people want something done, you believe it completely? Ok…

    Hey Billy, I just heard from an invisible man who told me he was a sacred prophet that you need to give everyone with the username “Caboose” $20. This guy says that he knew Jesus when he was alive, so will you listen to him? I promise you, I’m telling the truth.

  • Caboose

    He was relevant?

  • Billy Hoyle

    Just one question…if you were adopted by two gay dads you would be okay with that?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=509819249 Gaurav P.

    I am 99% sure you are just trolling at this point. Job well done.

  • Caboose

    Seed, c’mon mate. It’s spitting in the face of forty years of psychology, biology, chemistry, physiology, anatomy, and psychiatry to say that homosexuality is a choice.

  • V

    If adam and eve never existed the how the hell did we get here? Evolution from monkeys? If thats what happend why doesnt it continue to happen? I never seen a monkey evole into a human.

  • Caboose

    I very much love my parents right now.

    But assuming I had no parents?

    Yes, I would be absolutely ok with two dads.

  • Caboose

    Would you like me to explain the concept of evolution? I’ve got time, because that is not how evolution works. I have read the majority of Darwin’s works, hold honors in my biology major at UC Berkeley, and am generally pretty good at explaining things.

  • Caboose

    Yeah, 14. Hopefully when you’re a bit older, you’ll realize you were on the wrong side of history.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=509819249 Gaurav P.

    Its cool that you’re not a “fan” of gays – a lot of people are still uncomfortable about homosexuality. It still catches me off guard when I see two dudes kissing while walking down Toronto.

    But that doesn’t mean that I can’t be supportive or respectful of people who are, in the end, just trying to live their life. Jason Collins being gay has nothing to do with you, and has no effect on you whatsoever. He’s not going to come running and try to have sex with you, and he’s not harming anyone by being gay. He’s just another human who, by all accounts is a great person and a great professional. His being gay changes nothing about that reality, nor should it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=509819249 Gaurav P.

    …..what is he marketing exactly? Its not like he has a book coming out.

  • Russell

    I am a born again Christian and I can tell you that religion isnt what saves you from going to hell. Accepting JESUS CHRIST alone as your personal Lord and Savior and confessig you are a hopeless sinner in need of a savior alone can save you from an eternal hell. That being said yes homosexuality is wrong,it is a sin. God’s word says its wrong so its wrong. God dosent make mistakes. He made man and woman. Who can argue with God? I know all the liberal trash on here is going to try to bash me but its ok….the Bible says that one day every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. And Jesus Christ can set you free if you will only accept the free gift of salvation.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=509819249 Gaurav P.

    Huh? Just the fact that it is an existing trait in other mammals should be enough basis (not to mention the studies done) to let you know that it is inherently biological in people. Gay people can come from perfectly normal childhood circumstances – it doesn’t take sexual abuse to trigger homosexuality, that’s ridiculous.

  • Caboose

    God doesn’t make mistakes? Didn’t he make that flood with Noah and the ark because he made a mistake making humans?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=509819249 Gaurav P.

    I never understood this logic from some folk. Its akin to saying “don’t compare civil rights to the women’s suffrage movement”.

    It is absolutely the same. The point of each of the rights movements is to normalize something that should be seen as a basic OK in human society (the right to vote, the right to be a skin color without persecution, the right to be a sexual orientation and be treated the same). In the end, its all the same fight.

    Gays are minorities, just like people of color are minorities. One group was historically persecuted for their color, and the other has been historically persecuted for their sexual orientation. Its a different battle, but ultimately, the same war.

  • Caboose

    If god is willing to prevent evil but unable…
    He is not omnipotent.

    If god is willing and able to prevent evil but doesn’t…
    He is malevolent.

    If god is willing and able…
    Why is there evil?

    If god is neither willing nor able…
    Why call him god?

  • Caboose

    I wouldn’t write such long posts. Makes it easier for people like Seed to get confused.

  • http://www.facebook.com/evan.boland Evan Boland

    there is no god, nor adam, nor eve.

  • http://www.facebook.com/evan.boland Evan Boland

    Lmao. Some people are just so foolish.

  • Roger Rogers

    probably the DUMBEST comment i’ve seen on slam. Thanks for breaking the record.

  • Roger Rogers

    so people choose to be ostricized and hated on? you’ve said some dumb things in the past, but this takes the cake bro.

  • Caboose

    Just wanna point out that there is a STRONG correlation between:

    1. Intelligence and liberal
    2. Intelligence and gay right support
    3. Education and gay right support

    Just gonna throw that out there. Neither you nor Gc6 are smarter than the good majority of people on here.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=509819249 Gaurav P.

    LOL.

    I’m going to upvote you just so more people see your comment. Oh man, good times.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=509819249 Gaurav P.

    I’m surprised you took his comment so well…I literally laughed out loud when I read it.

  • Fresh Faced

    No surprise he looked gay

  • Caboose

    I have patience for idiots. I don’t have patience for the illogical. I’m simply hoping he’s ignorant and not irrational.

  • KBM

    Jarron is also going to be cheered wherever he goes now.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=509819249 Gaurav P.

    Dude sounds like a walking brochure.

  • http://www.facebook.com/evan.boland Evan Boland

    Yeah, exactly.

  • http://www.facebook.com/evan.boland Evan Boland

    lmao. Good point.

  • andre anglais

    now where do I find a Jason Collins jersey?

  • andre anglais

    What happens if he doesn’t get a contract? I mean, 34 year old player, (wizards, eek) never been that great, I could see him not getting picked up simply because it happens to 34 year FAs all the time. But will people (other players, say, thinking about coming out) point to Collins and think that being out is a bad career move?
    I get that, personally, for Jason, this is the right move, and I am very happy that he has done this, but it might not be the watershed moment that everyone is hailing it.
    I guess the story is really about how the league and players deal with it (like grownup men, it seems.)

  • http://twitter.com/seanmagicjuan Sean Superstar Juan

    Absolutely horrible comparison. Being black is a not choice or BEHAVIOR, it’s an essence of being. I could walk around as a gay person and not one soul would know. I walk around in my black skin everyday and trust me, it’s well known.

  • andre anglais

    The “movement” is about trying to obtain basic human rights for a group of people; you are being offensive if you say they don’t deserve the same rights and freedoms as you. Just because you are not obnoxious and all “bible-slappy” about it your homophobia doesn’t mean it is ok.

  • http://twitter.com/seanmagicjuan Sean Superstar Juan

    Being black is a not choice or BEHAVIOR, it’s an essence of being. I could walk around as a gay person and not one soul would know. I walk around in my black skin everyday and trust me, it’s well known. Stop the Civil Rights comparisons.

  • Caboose

    I spot little difference between this movement and the same one that happened in the 1950′s and 60′s for black rights and the one that happened in the 1910′s and 20′s for women’s rights. The only distinction is that homosexuals arguably aren’t as disenfranchised as blacks and women were back then. But even so, similar.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000166716900 Anthony Darnello Taylor Jr.

    usually the homosexuality is to assert dominance though,…..just sayin im not taking sides

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000166716900 Anthony Darnello Taylor Jr.

    Catholic Priests

  • Caboose

    That’s true, especially in species like elephant seals with a beachmaster. But in some, like dolphins or gorillas, it is done for pleasure.

  • Caboose

    Those are two VERY different points you’re making.
    The one about choice and behavior is utterly wrong.
    The visibility one is valid, and is why the movement for gay rights doesn’t have nearly the vitriol as the movement for black rights did.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000166716900 Anthony Darnello Taylor Jr.

    What is funny is that atheist are depicted at being to arrogant to accept a being more superior than man. Or that they are scared or that they are hurt because of some sever loss or misfortune that occurred in their life that wasn’t rectified and left them scarred. So some scorn God or refuse to believe he existed at all. Not saying this applies to all, most, or few but, however, it is what I have witnessed. Me as a firm believer in God feel like I am to well crafted to be a product of mere chance. This world and its many features are too complex to just happen randomly over time and though I know things have been subject to manipulation, so hasthe study of evolution. I believe man is an arrogant being and is more than capable of producing this to manipulate just like those other people did with religion.

  • Caboose

    Here’s a comparison: McDonald’s doesn’t currently hold a press conference when it opens a new restaurant in say, Hong Kong. But when they opened their first one? Media frenzy. It’s the concept of primacy, and for that, Jason deserves all the positive attention he is bound to get.

  • EJ

    Animals have no inclination whatsoever to become human. All evolution really is that you just have to survive long enough to reproduce. If you can do that, your lineage is safe.
    Those charasterisitics that reproduce the most become most common. And occasionally genetic mutations happen, if the mutation is good, then it will reproduce and become more numerous, if it’s not good it will die out.

  • danpowers

    my bad

  • Caboose

    I do not reject god because I believe in the spirit of man.
    I do not reject god because I have experienced a loss.
    I do not reject god because I’m an angsty teenager.
    The concept of a god is so ridiculously outlandish, if you stop to think about it. I rely on what is quantifiable, what has been proven, what can be proven again, and what will continue to be proven.
    Religion is outdated, it truly is. Believing that the natural world is “too convenient” is a TERRIBLE argument. That’s like saying there’s no way humans could have designed a computer by ourselves, look at how complex it is! Aliens or something must have helped.
    No, the fact of the matter is, that over the course of hundreds of millions of years, you and I have become fine tuned machines as evolution has driven us to the features most helpful to our survival. We are convenient BECAUSE of the world around us, not IN RESPONSE to the world around us.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Wrong. Adam and Steve were in fact the first two humans on earth. And they were gay.

  • danpowers

    dude, the only “dumb” stuff i see in that case is what
    you are writing here. if he makes some money out of it, so be it.
    actually that way of making money doesnt hurt anyone. its even an honest way to earn money. he doesnt force anyone to buy his sh*t and i dont see any fraud in that. where is the difference between him and any other public figure coming up with something private which causes him/her to make some money?

    most people like to identify with public figures as their heroes.
    even your hillbilly sister/girlfriend would maybe buy lady gaga stuff if she came out with something your booboo could identify with.

  • Caboose

    Good point. I was wrong.

  • danpowers

    dude, the republicans you elect are betraying you for loads of more money. the whole world would laugh about you guys for embracing those the most who f*ck your a*sses the hardest, if it wouldnt affect most parts of the world negatively, too.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    This is like saying it was no big deal for Jackie Robinson to be the first black MLB player because obviously, black people and white people should be treated equally. Regardless of what you personally think on any subject, there is something called context (social and historical) that determines whether something is a big deal or not.

    The reason why this is a big deal is because homosexuality is still stigmatized in America–though less and less–particularly in sports. That being said, times are a’changing. You can’t expect people not to make a big deal about athletes coming out until there are enough athletes who are openly gay and accepted as such.

  • Caboose

    Bingo.

  • danpowers

    a big share of straights become straight by education and society’s pressure. you can be pretty sure that many of those straights in here bashing collins for his coming out were born gay but got raised straight. the inner conflict that this topic causes for them can not be articulated by their concious which causes aggression that normally canalizes in forms of denial and we see it here in the shape of prejudice

  • danpowers

    the funny thing is that in our society people become straight by their education and social pressure, not by their nature.

  • danpowers

    dude, youre a moron

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000166716900 Anthony Darnello Taylor Jr.

    why dont we have wings then lol or can breathe underwater

  • danpowers

    sir, your thinking is trapped in a very narrow box. you cant chose your sexual orientation. you are either born straight or gay or quagmireish. the difference to skin color – as Sean Superstar Juan just tried to explain to you – is that you can hide your sexual orientation to some point but you cant hide your skin color. the thing is just that people who get educated straight and are actually gay would often realize it later in their lifes. a coming out then might appear like a choice to you, but its actually just realizing who they really are and admitting it. why should anyone have to lie about who he/she really is? shouldnt be anything wrong with that

  • http://www.facebook.com/gluegoat86 Eddy Wang

    wahahahah, this is ridiculous…an article about jason collins admitting he is gay to the debate between Caboose and Billy Hoyle about “Gay rights/religion/evolution” :) I laughed out loud reading those comments and I already suspected this debate would happen as its a very sensitive topic….For myself, i just wanted to tell people that if Jason Collins have made this statement way back in 2002 when he is in Nets playing against Shaq in the finals, maybe the Nets whould have won at least one game since Shaq may be afraid of leaning his body agressively towards his in the entire series lol….

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    not saying gay is the new black… at all. Just using that as an extreme example.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    We can’t can’t blame religion itself because there is something material and concrete that drives people toward the metaphysical.

    People use religion as a way of coping with certain hardships inherent in a system of exploitation, and dealing with things they don’t know; others use it as a way of controlling and pacifying those coping with hardships in order to protect the ones doing the exploiting.

    You get rid of those hardships–poverty, exploitation, alienation, etc.–and promote scientific education for everyone, making sure society is scientifically literate from youth to adult, and the need for religion vanishes. There’ll no longer be a material basis for having religion.

    … In other words, you eradicate capitalism. But people don’t want to hear that. :P

  • danpowers

    my bad, i shouldnt have generalized clergy that way. sure, that gay clergy exists, too.

    i am just of the oppinion that that the predominant social homophobia within the occident (among other cultural spaces) has its roots and a huge support in their traditional clergy and by how this clergy interprets religion to shape society.

    this is not a declining phenomenon with “medieval” roots. while some traditional clergy starts to adapt to common sense new counterparts rise. if you look around the globe and take pentacostalism (btw: right now there are more pentacostalists world wide than catholics overall) as an example as a newer phenomenon especially in africa and latin america, oh boy, hitler couldnt have been more homophobic than the majority of those communities and their spiritual authorities. i dont know tho if they are comparable in that aspects to their pendants in the usa but i assume that.

    please excuse if my sentenses are a bit chaotic at times, english is not my mother tongue

  • danpowers

    appreciated

  • The Philosopher

    Some priests who claim that they are Catholic…

  • Mars

    I guess the new agenda to push is this black gay whatever. Something odd about it all. I respect people’s personal life choices, even if they aren’t very good ones, but why come out now? Certainly we don’t accept differences very well, so who’s approval is he seeking? Perhaps we should ask is gay a good thing? Or maybe we should ask what benefit you gain from being gay? Other than that, there are many sins to choose from, and this one is no different.

  • The Philosopher

    Magic is the Black athlete with HIV.
    Collins is the Black athlete who is openly gay.
    Sports Illustrated already has the story in print. Seemingly, before everyone else.
    Stanford.
    Larry Johnson was a Black man dressed as a woman.
    Maybe.

  • EJ

    Public education is good for sure, but that doesn’t mean we should eradicate capitalism.
    The reason I like the free market and think it works is because if I’m trading something with someone, I want to be the one who decides if I’m going to do the trade or not. If I like what the other guy is offering, then I’ll take it, if I don’t, then I won’t. I don’t want someone else making that decision for me.

  • The Philosopher

    Understood.
    You’re alright with me.

  • kwamepooh

    lol all the hate against gay people coming from some1 whos is worshipping a man who got nailed…

  • GC6

    What study? I’d like to read it for myself. Modern Liberals always love to call themselves intelligent and enlightened but they are just communist cult members so are fake conservatives.

  • GC6

    I’m just calling out the liberal cult, a real gay hero would be Bradley manning (who the gay rights activist wont touch because they are a bunch of communist) not this overpaid millionaire who’s going to make plenty more

  • GC6

    That’s a oxymoron

  • Kris

    if Adam and Eve did exist we’re all cousins… incestuous.

  • danpowers

    its not wrong. neither the original hebrew bible texts say so nor is there any scientific proof of homosexuality being a disease or any other kind of disorder. the doctrine of your church is pretty evil in some aspects and im pretty sure that what you just posted is extremely contrary to the content of jesus’ legacy

  • initbruv

    We aren’t going to eradicate capitalism, capitalism will collapse on itself before people actively abandon it.

  • Dagger

    Wow . . . that comment both made my day and ruined it. SLAM’s comment section has never sunk so low.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003246310246 Jason Carter

    Says YOU ….haha..ok buddy ..like YOU said…. “keep rolling with whatever”

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003246310246 Jason Carter

    your a fool go sit down somewhere..I read some of your comments and they emanate a stench of foolishness..

  • pposse

    wwe is real aside from being scripted. If your talking about the punishment those guys take on a weekly/nightly basis then you have been misinformed. You gotta be in top notch condition as well as have some athletic ability to do what they do.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003246310246 Jason Carter

    Your a certified clown spewing baseless atheistic garb.I read some of your comments and you obviously dont believe in Christianity, now thats fine, it doesn’t bother me, but what does it that most of you guys are hypocrites, and have -0- proof of what your saying, You deny the air you breathe, the blood that flows though your veins, the intricate cells and DNA structures that your own body consists of, for the sole belief of science and things man made. Now Im not saying science doesnt have a place, but we all have a creator Jehovah, You WILL learn the truth some day..Ill keep praying for people like you and the rest of the people that accept this “gay” way of life willingly. I dont, thats the bottom line, Ill stay with my wife, while YOU can lay with other men if you choose.

  • pposse

    your a borderline psychopath with your campaign against religion.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003246310246 Jason Carter

    Jason Collins announces he is gay and the world praises him.

    Tim Tebow announces he is christian, and he is ridiculed, condemned and insulted

  • pposse

    even if you can do all that but people will still ask the question “why are we here?”

  • Bandwagonfan

    Man thats only christian point of view.

  • Bandwagonfan

    Man youre just an ignorant christian fanatics. I bet you mock other religions.

  • Bandwagonfan

    There is no god. There is mj.

  • Bandwagonfan

    Only reason i went here is to see the overintteligent people debating and stuffs. And some idiots like billy hoyle

  • LP

    But to a lot of people, its not about denying human rights. I want everyone to have the same basic rights, but if that comes with comes me changing my beliefs, then i cant be on board. I don’t support it. Its very simple. You’ll probably get what you want in a few years, so just be patient….when you do,ill still feel the same way….

  • pposse

    so the majority of people in here who don’t agree with everyone else in here were born gay?! wtf!!

  • don

    pushing 300 comments for a “non-issue” eh?

  • danpowers

    i didnt write that.

  • pposse

    u didnt write the comment that i was questioning? or you didn’t write/mean what i responded (which was in response to the comment that was orignaly posted)?

  • Spinner

    Well done sir caboose

  • danpowers

    b*tch please

  • danpowers

    you directed that crap at me tho. check ur comment

  • C-Mac

    @disqus_09v4fZvblo:disqus can you remember when you were a kid growing up the first time you had a crush on a girl? Did you go into school (or wherever it was that you knew her from) and think to yourself: ‘You know what? I think I’m going to start liking this particular girl today.’ Did you CHOOSE to start liking her, or did it just happen?
    I know plenty of gay guys, and believe me, none of them woke up one day and said ‘I’m totally gonna start being into other guys from now on.’
    Just like you were born heterosexual, homosexual people are also born that way. To suggest otherwise is laughable.

  • pposse

    so it wasn’t you who wrote “you can be pretty sure that many of those straights in here bashing collins for his coming out were born gay but got raised straight..bla bla bla” – that wasn’t you who wrote that? That is the person whom my comment is directed to.

    The icon next to that quote is a knicks logo with the name Dan Powers.

  • LP

    lmaoooooooo

  • Caboose

    You CLEARLY have no idea about evolution or Darwin. Please read up on the counter arguments to your point of view before you critique them, it’s just due diligence.

  • Caboose

    WA Kerr, Purdue University
    AJ Harris, Purdue University
    SM Corey, University of Wisconsin
    CR Pace, University of Minnesota
    EL Breemes, Purdue University
    J Phelan, Columbia University
    FD Weil, University of Chicago

    All published in peer reviewed journals. You can get the abstracts off of Google, but I used the University of California’s journal access to get them in their entirety. Feel free to educate yourself. Am I calling you stupid? No, just that on the whole, conservative ideas come from the less intelligent side of the spectrum. You’re welcome to argue that fact, but you’ll be doing so against decades of scientific research.

  • Caboose

    Nah, so says decades of scientific research. I can provide you with studies if you’d like.

  • Caboose

    That explains a lot. You utter moron.

  • Caboose

    How am I a hypocrite? Please, enlighten me.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    The concept of God is not outlandish. The concept of the biblical god is.

  • Caboose

    Concept of A god is. The IDEA of god is something else, you’re right.

  • danpowers

    yes, sir. i wrote that you can be pretty sure that MOST guys bashing collins for his coming out were born gay. not all. and i also did not argue that this was just because they disagree on whatever oppinion.

    you can be pretty sure that a sane, straight guy wont have any motivation to show concern, hatred or any other big emotion because of the sexual orientation of whoever. homophobia implys pretty clearly at least gay tendencies.

    there are always exceptions from the rule tho and in some few cases other circumstances than inner conflicts rooting in the conflict between gay nature and life in a society which tends to point out homosexuality as abnormal may cause one to hate on a gay guy.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    I may be misunderstanding but it seems like you are sure there is no God. Which as a logical person you really really shouldn’t be sure of. Science and God answer 2 separate questions. Using one to disprove the other is ignorant.

  • Caboose

    I detest religion, for I see it as the single most destructive influence on the planet. It alone is responsible for the Crusades, 90% of human wars, lack of any societal progress from the fall of Rome to the 1500′s, a hatred of academia, the colonization and routinized slaughter of Africa and South America, denial of aid to African nations struggling with AIDS, a general lack of people wishing to understand their world, and interfaith racism. There are more, but that is why I hate religion, because imagine where we’d be if people didn’t kill others to please their invisible friends.

  • Caboose

    I’m curious, continue. I won’t reject anything you say straight off the bat, I just want to hear what you have to say, because you clearly have something.

  • Caboose

    Perhaps I should clarify: I’m arguing against the idea of a God that created the natural world and it’s laws. That is where science handles it nicely. Are there other forms of “god?” Sure. But I haven’t seen an argument for that yet, and it would be much harder of an argument for me.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i’ll go a little more in depth when i get back to the office, but for now, this is a basic way i think of it.
    .
    Think of Life/Universe as the Engine of a Car.
    .
    When you see the engine, do you say the toolbox built it?
    .
    Now think of Science as a toolbox.
    .
    I will go more into depth when i have a keyboard.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i really am interested in getting into this debate with you. not very often do i encounter an atheist (you consider yourself so?) who can hold an argument with me (not tryna brag). but i don’t want to infringe on your beliefs or anything.

  • Caboose

    I think perhaps you’re selling science short. Science offers more than just a description of the world, it really does offer solutions to causal problems as well. Is there something in particular that you feel science is lacking on?

  • http://www.facebook.com/evan.boland Evan Boland

    You’re* Jason, we live in the 21st century. We have something called science. Look it up.

  • http://www.facebook.com/evan.boland Evan Boland

    Yes, Jason Collins is praised for being gay. And Tebow gets the opposite treatment for being Christian. Only One of the two is responsible for the deaths of millions..

  • Caboose

    Yeah I’m up for it. Upfront I should probably say:
    I’m an atheist, yes.
    As such, I do not believe in the existence of a diety that transcends the natural universe.
    Any points I make will be rooted in scientific bedrock.
    I do not want this to become a Christian debate. Please.
    I will refrain from anything too philosophical (Quine’s ontological relativism) that would hamper the debate.
    Good?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    yeah thats’ fine. and i’m not a christian, so you don’t have to worry about that. I am a theist, or agnostic but in reverse. I believe in God, but wouldn’t be overly shocked if the belief in God is just an evolutionary survival trait.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    you know me fam .

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i guess it comes down to whether or not you believe in reason? as in, the “why” question vs the “how” question. or do you believe there is only a “how” and not a “why”…?
    .
    problems with science, (to start)
    - 21 grams of weight loss after a person passes
    - the how it got there question. even if you go by quantum mechanics, the ultra dense big bang particle still existed before it boomed. maybe not in time or space, but it was there. and i don’t think the spontaneous particles (i forgot what they were called) really explain the entire multiverse appearing in one particle out of nothingness.

  • Caboose

    That 21 grams experiment has been widely discredited (lack of scientific method, alteration of results, etc). I can provide you with links if you want.
    The thing is, I deny that there ever is a “why” in the universe. I find it arrogant to assume that there is some purpose to existence. If you deny the “why,” then there is no problem to solve.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    that’s why i asked the question. i just don’t believe there is no why. which is the ultimate question of God i guess. so we are just at a fundamental disagreement at the most basic level.
    .
    one scenario i can’t discredit is the idea that we are a simulation. have you looked into that?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    would you show me the 21 grams thing?

  • Caboose

    Well, the onus is on you to prove there is a purpose to life, unfortunately.

    Yeah, there are no clues to tell us we aren’t brains in jars. We can’t even know that.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Ahh, and i think the idea that we need to prove a purpose, rather than live with one is contradictory to the point.
    .
    as i’ve told you before, i believe God is energy. I don’t believe it is a “consciousness” per say. God (to me) is a constant. We can’t discover/prove/disprove his existence because all of the tools we have to try and do those things are not equipped to answer those questions.
    .
    if someone wants to call it “god” – “artchitect” – “deity” – “spirit” – i don’t really care, but i do believe it exists.
    .
    and i don’t believe in intervention, or any sort of meddling. i believe in balance. i don’t actually disagree with anything Science proves or claims to prove.
    .
    am i making sense? my style of god dialogue is very dependant on response, i have a lot of trouble just expressing my theistic beliefs without provocation.

  • Caboose

    Did you read Aristotle like I said before haha? He has a very similar concept, in that his god is a thought that exists in a purposeless universe. Yes, it makes sense, though I’m not even sure if I’d call that theism, it’s much closer to a philosophical belief. It’s interesting, and a much better conversation (not debate)

  • transdermal

    yuck

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    still haven’t got in depth with aristotle. well outside of what i studied in school. i tried a bit, but his teachings are tedious, it’s like translating a language you already speak. so, reading aristotle before bed proved a fruitless effort.
    .
    well it’s a belief in a God. that’s why i say theism. i considered myself agnostic for years, until it was explained to me that my belief was closer to theism because i’m basically the exact opposite of traditional agnosticism.
    .
    So you believe there is no why, everything is spontaneous? under that premise, wouldn’t a simulation make the most sense? assuming, for instance, we figured out the mathematical formula for the big bang. and we have the general count of elemental distribution, simulating the big bang and thus the creating/expansion of our universe with a computer program is almost inevitable right? and if it happens once, logically it will happen at a never ending loop within each universe….or am i over/under thinking something?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    hey, i want to know how intelligent i am. anyway for me to find out? you are the only person i know of to ask who might say something other than, go to Mensa or one of those groups.

  • Redd

    Um no it’s not even anywhere close, it’s more like Muslims being targeted for their religion, a WAY better analogy.

    No one is saying that it’s not a big deal, just saying it doesn’t matter because everyone has their own choices.

  • Caboose

    No worries on Aristotle, dude was definitely not a writer by trade haha.

    I think that got a little bit too sci-fi ish. I understand what you’re saying regarding the infinite loop of universes, and yes, that is completely possible, but there’s no reason to say that our universe is NOT the first. It’s all equally likely.

    I don’t think it follows that just because a universe is random means it’s more likely to be a simulation. Could it be simulated? As in, could we model our universe down to its most perfect elements, assuming a computer large enough? That’s where chaos theory comes in, not the issue of purpose.

  • Redd

    It’s important to me..you even saw me say that for the reasoning of it creating dialogue it’s great.

    So seems you’re egotistical.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    “Dude it’s not a big deal, being gay shouldn’t be a story or

    applauded like a hard task well done..there’s nothing wrong with it and no one should care if this dude is gay or not.

    Everyone is born different and has their own preferences and Idc what a man or woman prefers. This is a sad run for some traffic by Sports sites.”

    .

    That is egotistical. I explained to you why. Very very simple.

    .

    “This is a sad run for some traffic by Sports sites.” is the exact opposite of .”you even saw me say that for the reasoning of it creating dialogue it’s great.”
    .
    and i am in no way being egotistical. explaining things to an ignorant person is an explanation. it’s not egotistic to explain something. and i never criticized, or put my opinion above anyone else. i simply explained why things are being said. you just don’t like it, and act out on it. pretty much what you always do.

  • Caboose

    Haha that’s an evil question and you know it. An actual 1 on 1 IQ test is flawed, but probably the easiest way to truly affix a number value on it. I took one when I was 5 to see if I was in the right grade level, the report was like 6 pages long.

    One other assessment, that you can do RIGHT NOW, is one that is deeply personal. If you are truly honest with yourself, it works. If you are not, it doesn’t.

    It’s called Loevinger’s stages of ego development, and although it’s not a “classic” definition of intelligence, many believe that the progression through the stages represents a greater capacity and ability of the mind (is that intelligence)?

    Basically, there’s 9 stages. The goal is to try to place which one you’re in. I can give you a link to the definitions of the stages or I can post them here.

    It’s interesting, if you follow this theory, it looks like hyper-conservatives may just have stunted cognitive development….but that’s another discussion.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i mean the simulation thing to show the concept of proving a creation/start as impossible. not as an actual belief system i carry.
    .
    how do you go about the 7 other dimensions that string theory hypothesizes?
    .
    i know this is all over the place. this subject is more interesting to me than anything, i am having issues being concise and disciplined. slow me down, or take steps back wherever, or just tell me to shut up.
    .

  • Caboose

    Yeah, the simulation theory is a null point, simply because its introduction adds to nothing.

    I must say I’m not terribly well versed in string theory, but it has its strong and weak points. I’ll say I’m not nearly qualified to defend or attack it, so let’s leave that one.

    Haha I can tell you just have plenty to blurt out. This is the beauty of being in college, I’m surrounded by nerds who love this stuff. I get to talk about it all the time. I’m willing to bet your office isn’t quite the same.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    ok first of all, of course i know that’s an evil question. but i want an idea of something more than the IQ tests i’ve taken online that i put no stock in whatsoever. and you are the only card carrying member of Mensa that i know. The only other “genius” (which is exactly the spirit of creativity in ancience greece, did you know that?) or whatever y’all extremely smart people are called now a days found out through a test just to see if he had recovered from acoma. And was not given anything more than an invitation to a government agency and medical clearance.

    .

    i am extremely interested in Loevinger’s stages of ego development, never heard of it, but i don’t mind the personal nature of it, i assume. and i have no problem identifying issues within my personality

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    not even a little. i don’t really have anybody to bounce my philosophical ideas off of, (which is why i tried to give you my email a while ago lol), so i relish the opportunity to discuss this with someone whose opinion i actually respect.

  • Caboose

    Haha no, even though I qualified, I never signed up for MENSA. Bunch of arrogant fops.

    Yeah, don’t put much stock in the online ones. I took some for fun a couple years back and had a spread of 30. On the same day.

    Anyways, the stages:

    1. Presocial Stage
    In earliest infancy, a baby cannot differentiate itself from the world and focuses only on gratifying immediate needs. Loevinger believes infants in their earliest state cannot have an ego because their thinking is autistic or delusional. Their ego or thinking is characterised by primary process and delusional projection This part of the presocial stage does not last long as it quickly merges into the Symbiotic stage. The ego begins to develop and is it dominated by the process of differentiating self from non-self – from the World. The infant, once s/he has a grasp of the stability of the world of objects, the baby retains a symbiotic relation with his/[her] mother and begins the association of objects to themselves. For example, a baby will not fall asleep until they have their favourite toy or blankie in the crib with them.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    you really should at least look into the concept of multiple dimensions. if string theory is anything close to accurate, then we aren’t even taking into account 50% of the actual multiverse.

  • Caboose

    2. Impulsive Stage

    Here the child asserts his growing sense of self and views the world in ego-centric terms. At this stage the child is preoccupied with bodily impulses, particularly (age-appropriate) sexual and aggressive ones. The child is too immersed in the moment and view the world solely in terms of how things affect them. Their impulses affirm their sense of self however are curbed by the environment. When someone meets their needs they are considered ‘good’, and if they do not meet their needs they are considered bad – often resulting in impulsive retaliation such s/]he will run away or run home. Discipline is viewed by the child as restraints, and ‘rewards and punishments’ are seen as being “Nice to Me” or “Mean to Me”. This is because the Child’s needs and feelings are experienced mostly in bodily modes and ‘the child’s orientation at this stage is almost exclusively to the present rather than to past or future.

  • Caboose

    3. Self-Protective Stage (many hyper-capitalists are here)

    The “Self-Protective” stage represents the first step towards self-control of impulses. The Self-Protective person has the notion of blame, but he externalizes it to other people or to circumstances. At this level, the child craves a morally prescribed, rigidly enforced, unchanging order, and if maintained too long an older child or adult who remains here may become opportunistic, deceptive, and preoccupied with control.
    While a degree of conceptual cohesion has been reached, morality is essentially a matter of anticipating rewards and punishments, with the motto: “Don’t Get Caught”

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Alright I’m gonna read this over lunch, I’ll get back to you when I get back, bout an hour

  • Caboose

    4. Conformist Stage (where those in stage 3 think hyper-liberals are)

    Most children around school age progress to the next stage, conformity. Persons begin to view themselves and other as conforming to socially approved codes or norms. Loevinger describes this stage of having the greatest cognitive simplicity. There is a right way and a wrong way and it is the same for everyone or broad classes of people. One example of groups conforming together at this age is by gender—boys and girls. Here persons are very much invested in belonging to and obtaining the approval of groups. Behavior is judged externally, not by intentions, and this concept of belonging to the group (family or peers) is most valued. The child starts to identify his welfare with that of the group, though for the stage to be consolidated, there must be a strong element of trust. An ability to take in rules of the group appears, and another’s disapproval becomes a sanction, not only fear of punishment. However rules and norms are not yet distinguished.

    While the Conformist likes and trusts other people within his own group, he may define that group narrowly and reject any or all outgroups, and stereotypes roles on the principle of social desirability: people are what they ought to be.

  • Caboose

    No rush, just gonna give you the detailed stages (it’s fun to try to fit the various commenters into these stages too)

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Ok that wasn’t as long as it looked in the e-mail. What do I do with these when I finish reading them?

  • Caboose

    Try to figure out which ones you fit into best. Higher the number, arguably, ARGUABLY, the more cognitively or ego-ly advanced.

  • Caboose

    5. Self-Aware Stage (most people)

    Loevinger considered the Self-Aware (also known as ‘Conscientious-Conformist’) Transitional Stage to be ‘model for adults in our society’ and thought that few pass the stage before at least the age of twenty-five.

    The stage is largely characterized by two characteristics: an increase in self-awareness and the capacity to imagine multiple possibilities in situations, one marked by the development of rudimentary self-awareness and self-criticism. However the closeness of the self to norms and expectations reveal the transitional nature of these conceptions, midway between the group stereotypes of the Conformist and the appreciation for individual differences at higher levels. Loevinger also considered the level to produce a deepened interest in interpersonal relations.

  • Caboose

    6. Conscientious Stage (whom most people probably look up to)

    At progression to the Conscientious stage, individuals at this level, and even more often at higher levels, refer spontaneously to psychological development.

    By this stage, the internalisation of rules is completed, although at the same time exceptions and contingencies are recognized. Goals and ideals are acknowledged, and there is a new sense of responsibility, with guilt triggered by hurting another, rather than by breaking rules. The tendency to look at things in a broader social context is offset by a self seen as apart from the group, but also from the other’s point of view; as a result descriptions of people are more realistic with more complexities. Standards are self-chosen, and distinguished from manners, just as people are seen in terms of their motives and not just their actions. The Conscientious subject sees life as presenting choices; [s]he holds the origin of his own destiny and aspires to achievement, but by their own standards.

  • pposse

    your examples suck. You think its cool to call someone else a moron? I see right thru you. This is why i continuously have to baptize you my child..in ether ofcourse..nonetheless u are my son baptized in ether and will continue to get burned when speaking to me. That is no way to speak, fix your tongue. Someone else speaking was completely right about u, you come off as an arrogant prick, take your UC Berkley, Orlando Magic loving, baptized in ether caboose to some other forum.

    How about you ask the great Stephen Hawking if God exists?!

  • Caboose

    7. Individualistic Stage

    During this stage, people demonstrate both a respect for individuality and interpersonal ties. Loevinger explains to proceed beyond the Conscientious Stage a person must become more tolerant of himself and of others out of the recognition of individual differences and of complexities of circumstances developed at the previous level. The individualistic ego shows a broad-minded tolerance of and respect for the autonomy of both self and others. With a new distancing from role identities, moralism begins to be replaced by an awareness of inner conflict, while the new stage is also marked by a heightened sense of individuality and a concern for emotional dependence. Subjective experience is opposed to objective reality, inner reality to outward appearance; and vivid and personal versions of ideas presented as cliches at lower levels may emerge.

    A growing concern for psychological causality and development will typically go hand in hand with greater complexity in conceptions of interpersonal interaction.

  • Caboose

    Stephen Hawking has a LOT of holes in his theories, I’ll say that right now.

  • Caboose

    8. Autonomous Stage

    Loevinger termed the next stage “Autonomous” because it is marked by the freeing of the person from oppressive demands of conscience in the preceding stage. People at this stage are synthesizers and are able to conceptually integrate ideas. The autonomous person also recognizes the limitations to autonomy, that emotional interdependence is inevitable. The stage might also see a confrontation with the limitations of abilities and roles as part of deepening self-acceptance.

    Self-fulfillment becomes a frequent goal, partly supplanting achievement, while there may well be a wider capacity to acknowledge and to cope with inner conflicts, such as between needs and duties.

    A high toleration for ambiguity and conceptual complexity- the capacity to embrace Polarity, Complexity, Multiple Facets, and to integrate ideas – is a further feature of the Autonomous Stage.

  • Caboose

    9. Integrated Stage

    According to Loevinger, this is a rare stage to attain. At the integrated stage, learning is understood as unavoidable…the unattainable is renounced. The ego shows wisdom, broad empathy towards oneself and others, and a capacity to not just be aware of inner conflicts like the individualistic ego or tolerate inner conflicts like the autonomous ego, but reconcile and make peace with those issues. This reconciling inner conflicts and cherishing of individuality are key elements of its self-actualizing nature, along with a fully worked-out identity which includes reconciliation to one’s destiny.

  • Redd

    Ignorant person?

    LOL cause I enjoy white people tears? Oh relax cracker.

    Since when have Sports sites created dialogue? On ESPN it was trolling all day long..no dialogue.

    But u know what? You’re maybe right..idc. Not when society finds it heroic for a grown secure man to come out but not for a girl coming out of college comes out in the WNBA.

    So yea you’re right idc.

  • pposse

    i dont know where my last comment went, but here is the gist of it..u do get analogies right?

    BillyHoyle:homosexuality :: Caboose:religion

    your rants on ‘imaginary sky people’ and simple stuff such as not capitalizing the letter ‘g’ in certain situations are done to deliberately poke fun or denounce religion. Nothing different from some of these guys using derogatory language to get their pt across about gay people.

  • pposse

    he’s also regarded as one of, if not the brightest mind of a whole era.

  • Caboose

    If you genuinely compare the idea of religion and the fight for homosexual rights, I have nothing more to say.

  • Caboose

    WOAH NO WAY! I’m well aware.

  • pposse

    im genuinely comparing you to the people u are crucifying in here. (its okay to say that right? was that too religious for you lol). Your coming off as an anti religious bigot – and you probably are but that is besides the pt

    Some of these others are anti gay bigots

    So its okay for you to say what you want to say about a ‘touchy’ and ‘real issue’ facing society today, but its not okay for others just cause the subject is not the same…even tho both are ‘real issues’ and ‘touchy’?

  • Caboose

    Do you really want me to defend it? Or are you just trolling me? Either way is fine, cause I really hate explaining things to people unwilling to listen. Actually, no. I’ve seen you comment here for a while and I know how pathetically overmatched you are in the intellect department. Am I being cruel? Yup. Unfair? Nope. Just sit down and worship your imaginary friends, ok?

  • pposse

    ofcourse..i knew you would answer the question that way..sometimes you just don’t know when you are the puppet or the puppeteer my son.

    Explain to me where i gave you information about me worshipping ‘an imaginary friend’ as you like to call it my son. Please do. You know nothing about what i believe or don’t believe, nor do you have any logical basis to put me in one group or another. Your defensive instincts are kicking in again, don’t make this personal.

  • Caboose

    Says the one calling me a puppet.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    ok, couple questions. How did he get to these conclusions? Did he “rate” himself? In theory, assuming this works, one could, in a sense, learn how to be, or at least appear more intelligent, no? (comma, comma, comma) — how can one truly know, if they are looking at this from the appropriate perspectives?

  • pposse

    so then by your logic the great Stephen Hawking must have been an idiot… or is he illogical? Did you give some of your precious time to read his work? or do you gloss it over and write him off as illogical?!

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Case: “Ignorant person?”

    And Point: “LOL cause I enjoy white people tears? Oh relax cracker.”

    .
    That was easy.

  • Caboose

    Google it, there’s lots of good resources out there. It’s not so much intelligence as development of a coherent self.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    this guy is STILL going…..

  • Caboose

    I’ve read the entire A Brief History of Time.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    what stage do you estimate me to be in? i am not going to get offended, don’t worry about that.

  • pposse

    bigots usually don’t defend themselves or their views, they just continue on in their bigotry ways. Bigots will forever be overpowered, overmatched physically, mentally, and intellectually (ofcourse) by Pposse.

    Am i trolling you? Naw. Am i dropping knowledge on a pompous college kid who thinks his mind is what the world needs to clone its offspring off of. Yes.

    You could have easily responded “That’s fair” and I’ll let you in on a secret…psst..i would not have created this comment or my previous one..but we all know you only want to give that credit your alter egos.

  • pposse

    that was my original comment idk why it took so long to post

  • Caboose

    Hrmmm….
    If I had to pin it to one, I’d say 6, the Conscientious Stage.

  • pposse

    so then put yourself in the position of an anti gay person who uses name calling and such to detail their pt and ask them the same questions you asked yourself:

    Am i being cruel? yup Unfair? Nope (cause mainly their religion calls for it to be unfair). Just keep on fudgepacking (says the anti gay man)

    you see how that works? what makes you so different? I defended the anti gay mans plight the same way you defended your anti religious rant. Hell, right now if i was the judge i would let you know that there is nothing that makes you two different.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    So the appearance of intelligence lol.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    sent it through e-mail?

  • Caboose

    Lol no no no, more a personal intelligence

  • pposse

    no i was on the site..i think it had something to do with typing out the h o m o word fully or the f word i dont know what else it could have been..it said something about the comment being under moderation but i couldn’t wait..so instead i created a spiel of comments lol

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    yeah under moderation means a word or phrase raised a flag and it was sent to disqus for review

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    ahh much for you to learn still young sir. personal intelligence, will come off as cognitive intelligence to people. most of them, that is. actually, just confidence in most casual situations comes off as intelligence. (confidence, not arrogance).

  • Caboose

    This is true. All good comments.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i think that would be my guess as well. although parts of 5 apply to me and i am actively attempting to take into account personal variables in each persons pov/actions, which is a stage in #7 if i read that correctly. i just like the idea that we can put benchmarks in our development.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    if only the importance of confidence was taught at a younger age..

  • Caboose

    Neat right? And yeah, we can often see a little bit above our current stage, but may not understand exactly how to get there, but we will always be able to easily understand the stages below us. Yeah, 6 pushing 7 makes sense for you, I think.

  • Caboose

    I think that’s on parents. It’s difficult to standardize an education of confidence within schools (so easy to imagine it just enlivening bullies), so it is up to any child’s most significant others to provide them with that.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i am really surprised i never read about this in any of my psych classes…you learned about this as part of your evolutionary major, as an elective, or just by researching development?

  • Caboose

    Cognitive Science courses. I’m Public Health, so the focus is on Biology, but you have an option from a bunch of electives. Cog Sci is fascinating, and it came up there. My nerdier-than-me roommate is also a Cog Sci major, so I got to go more in depth with him.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    ahh the benefits of going to Berkeley

  • Caboose

    Touche

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    it’s hard to put that on parents (in this generation) when they don’t really know either. i mean, the proper education of confidence or at least the breeding of it, (which you can teach without blatantly saying it using the proper psychological tools) can come from schools. That’s where new concepts are introduced to the masses.
    .
    i’m the next group, the adults that grew up in the true information age will not have this problem. but kids today are progressively slowed imo, just because they don’t go about the world confident and aggressively enough.

  • Caboose

    I’m with you there.

    I doubt I’ve shared this anywhere here, but my future career is gonna be high school science teacher followed (hopefully) by school administrator. I LOVE discussing the issues of education, and this is a big one.

    I agree, yes, subtle coaxing of confidence is definitely possible. It’ll be interesting to see the kids right now aged like 16-25 and see how their kids turn out, having never been around for the boom of technology.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    that is tough to guess. my parents, as i’m 26 and just outside of that group, grew up without much of anything but the outdoors. And now look at the world……i cannot possibly imagine what it will be like in 20-40 years.

  • Caboose

    Yeah, you’re right on that cusp you know? It’s weird. Speaking of intelligence and personality and whatnot, you ever done a Myers Briggs Personality Test?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    never heard of it.

  • Caboose

    Curious? It’s probably the most famous personality indicator out there (lots of big companies love using it when they bring it high priced consultants and whatnot).

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    of course i’m curious. LOL, i love ranking things (in any way i can). myself is not an exclusion.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Of course. There’s nothing wrong with that, and there’s nothing wrong with religion filling that void either. Everyone asks that question.

    But, we can also work towards finding those answers–actually discovering how we got here and learning about the actual origins of our universe, with science.

    I don’t think any of that is incompatible with religion either. Islamic scientists actually came up with the first theory of evolution a full 1000 years before Darwin.

    It’s only a conflict when people refuse to accept scientific discoveries because of what their religious texts say. Other than that, I don’t think there’s a conflict.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    all i’m finding online are imitations

  • Caboose

    Haha I can see that.

    Well basically, you’re ranked on a 4 point scale, each with 2 possible options, for a total of 16 personality types.

    1. Extraversion vs Introversion, or where you focus your attention.
    Do you focus on the outer world of people and things (E), or on the inner world of ideas and impressions(I)?

    2. Sensing vs Intuition, or the way you take in information.
    Do you take in information with the five senses, with a focus on the here and now (S) or do you take in information by seeing patterns and the big picture, with a focus on bigger possibilities (N)?

    3. Thinking vs Feeling, or the way you make decisions.
    Do you make decisions mostly on the basis of logic and objective analysis (T) or on the basis of values and subjective, people-centered concerns (F)?

    4. Judging vs Perceiving, or how you deal with the world.
    Do you take a planned organized approach to life where you like to have things settled (J) or a flexible, spontaneous approach to life where you keep options open (P)?

    Then, you get the personality types:

    ISTJ (Guardian/Duty-Filler), ex: George Washington, Freud
    ESTJ (Guardian/Overseer), ex: Henry Ford, Dr. Phil
    ISFJ (Guardian/Defender), ex: Rosa Parks, Robert E Lee
    ESFJ (Guardian/Caregiver), ex: Andrew Carnegie, Larry King
    INTJ (Rationals/Strategist), ex: Newton, Tesla
    ENTJ (Rationals/Executive), ex: Caesar, Bill Gates, Caboose
    INTP (Rationals/Thinker), ex: Einstein, Charles Darwin
    ENTP (Rationals/Originator), ex: Socrates, Barack Obama
    ISTP (Artisans/Craftsman), ex: Steve Jobs, David Blaine
    ESTP (Artisans/Persuader), ex: Churchill, Malcolm X
    ISFP (Artisans/Composer), ex: Bob Dylan, Michael Jackson
    ESFP (Artisans/Entertainer), ex: Bill Clinton, Quentin Tarantino
    INFJ (Idealists/Protector), ex: Gandhi, Thomas Jefferson
    ENFJ (Idealists/Giver), ex: Nelson Mandela, Cicero
    INFP (Idealists/Dreamer), ex: John Lennon, JK Rowling
    ENFP (Idealists/Advocate), ex: Mark Twain, Walt Disney

  • Caboose

    Yeah, some online ones suck. Browse through what I posted and see if that helps.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i really feel like a psychologist would get more out of a person just by viewing what that person thinks of themselves. then by actually giving them these tests

  • Caboose

    This test is meant to, ironically, remove individual biases and show how each person actually projects themselves.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    and i got “intp” for myself.
    .
    just as much wanted to go “infp” because those decisions “thinking/feeling” questions depend on context to me.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    oh ok, that makes sense. i don’t understand how it really works, but i understand the idea.

  • Caboose

    Ha! I predicted that for you. Just saying…

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    LOL which one? tp or fp?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    you, “entj” ?

  • Caboose

    The test is a series of like 40 questions, all of them yes, no, or unsure. It’s like:
    When you go to a party, would you rather have helped organize it or not?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    oh ok. i took a career advocacy test like this that was supposed to tell me which career(s) i was best suited for.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    oh hahahahahaha i didn’t see that you put that

  • Caboose

    TP.
    I had you as either INTP or ISTP

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    ehh, the situation changes my approach, the S is more of a competition based thing for me. So like 48% of my life.

  • Caboose

    Yup yup, it’s about what you express MOST. It’s not like: THIS IS WHO YOU ARE. It’s more, you more often tend to exude this personality type. Example, I’m STRONGLY J and T, but only mildly E and N.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    yeah that makes sense. idk how strongly i fit any of these, probably P the strongest of all. the rest are largely dependent on the situation, and who is involved in it.

  • Caboose

    Sounds right. You can take an actual one at some places, I took mine at my University Health Center (career counseling department offers it for free)

  • Redd

    LOL you bit, didn’t know cracker was a racially charged word that had years of oppression behind it.

    Shut up cracker, you guys love to act like you face racism, ain’t seen a drop of it but have flooded it yourselves.

    White people=want to fit in.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    intelligence is so damn interesting to me. you ever watch TED talks?

  • Caboose

    On occasion, yeah. There’s a lot of interesting ones out there.

    On a side note, we destroyed this thread…

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    ehh, i have destroyed many a thread, and have yet to give any a fnck.

    .

    you seen this one? http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html

  • Caboose

    I have not. Worth watching?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    especially for you.

  • Caboose

    On it.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk
  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    you will like Robinson’s other talks. But the one i sent you should be watched by every person in and who plans to be in education. Maybe you disagree, but just watch it and holler at me.

  • pposse

    damn i mean im trying to wrap my mind around what you said. i dont necessarily disagree, in fact, most of the time when people are so adamant against something its cause deep down they are that something. I agree with that.

    But to think that a majority of people here gay bashing are gay themselves is kind of funny or sad. Its just hard to fully grasp what you said. Maybe its the irony that got me, but there are plenty of people here that can fall in that category!

  • Caboose

    Fascinating

  • z

    You and i musta been separated at birth. Like chris paul and cliff paul. You egalitarian, you

  • z

    You’re probably right about that, sadly enough. Tragic, in fact, because there’s legitimate concern over whether the planet will be hospitable to human life by the time the capitalist system consumes itself. It’s up to the enlightened few like Teddy the bear to try and drop knowledge on the neophytes. Stay patient, teddy, you’re doing great.

  • danpowers

    can we agree that it is very probable that at least some in here meet that criteria?

  • Bruce Wayne

    I don’t know you on a personal level, but making comments like the one above makes you seem like a person that is the opposite of enlightened

  • pposse

    yeah definately. Its so crazy the way human nature is and how and what we lash out at has such a high correlation to what we are insecure about and possibly what we are.

    sorrry, my initial question to you was kind of me talking out loud and was not meant to be taken in a bad way. I couldn’t believe this whole idea (which was in my head) was actually wrote down; just seeing it in writing within the context of the discussion on this thread (sensitive issue and all) was shocking.

  • Caboose

    I really liked that TED talk, the guy is clearly very charismatic but has good things to say.

  • Caboose

    Haha did you actually guess that without seeing I put myself there?

  • Charlie Murphy

    So before the ball of gas spun around and exploded to form the solar system what was there? Where did this gas come from? Someone or something had to put it there right? That’s one thing evolution can’t explain…what was there before it all started and what started it?…oh and yea typical you’re from Berkeley a California liberal why am i not surprised.

  • Caboose

    Please come back when you understand abiogenesis, physical cosmology, thermodynamics, general relativity theory, quantum mechanics, baryogenesis, and logic. You are right though: evolution doesn’t explain the origins of the Big Bang. We have other science for that.

  • danpowers

    then plz accept my apology for being a bit harsh i totally understood you wrong. english aint my mother tongue so that happends kinda often to me lol.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    yea i didn’t look at any of the names once i figured out how it worked. so i just guessed yours when i was finished with mine.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    oppression and racism are different stupid.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    yeah that was my introduction to TED. there are quite a few talks that i feel like most people need to see at some point.

  • Caboose

    Word.

  • Caboose

    Haha damn you did good then.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    hey you aren’t the only person here with the ability to get a good feel for people over a comment section.

  • Caboose

    Haha I know I know

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    too bad there isn’t more than 5 of us tho lol

  • Redd

    They go hand in hand…white people haven’t faced either on account of their skin color.

    You’re a moron and/or plain ignorant.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    cracker is offensive.
    cracker refers to race.
    cracker is racist.
    .
    it’s not debatable dummy.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    God made these gay people. Even under Christian beliefs, God made the person who made the choice.

  • Redd

    LMAO dumb cracker.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000166716900 Anthony Darnello Taylor Jr.

    not really I’m taking my classess now and studying diligently I understand the concept but it simply is not practical to me. Yes! there are some points that I believe to be true, but they are far and few between.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000166716900 Anthony Darnello Taylor Jr.

    i agree

  • beast mode

    Softie

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