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Wednesday, May 15th, 2013 at 9:00 am  |  150 responses

JR Smith Takes Blame for Knicks Losing to Pacers


by Marcel Mutoni @ marcel_mutoni

Following a deflating 93-82 Game 4 loss, the New York Knicks now trail 3-1 to the Indiana Pacers in the second round of the NBA Playoffs. You’d be hard-pressed to find a Knicks fan today who truly believes New York can turn this series around and win it.

According to JR Smith, he is to blame for the big hole his team finds itself in. Smith, coming off a putrid 7/22 shooting performance, says he has been letting the Knicks down since the previous series.

Per the NY Daily News:

“My frustration with myself is extremely high. I take the blame for this whole series,” Smith said after he shot 7-for-22 and finished with 19 points and two rebounds. “It started off in (Game 5) in Boston… I haven’t been playing (like) myself. I haven’t been playing my part. I’ve been letting my teammates down. I’ve been letting my coaches down. And it doesn’t feel good.”

Smith, who has played the past two games battling flu-like symptoms, hasn’t had one effective shooting night since he served a one-game suspension for elbowing Jason Terry in Game 3 of the first round against the Celtics. The NBA’s Sixth Man of the Year is now mired in a 26-for-91(28.6%) shooting slump over his last six games, including 10-for-37 (27%) from three-point range.

Smith added that he was also bad on defense, unable to keep Paul George in check (18 points, 14 rebounds and 7 assists.)

With the franchise’s first second-round appearance in 13 years turning into a nightmare, Mike Woodson and Carmelo Anthony tried to put on a brave face and said they believe the Knicks can somehow dig themselves out of this mess. They both think JR Smith can break out of his slump, and get New York’s offense jump-started again:

“We’re going to need him to score some for us,” Woodson said. “He’s going to have to put these two games here in Indiana behind us.” [...] “I want J.R. to shoot,” Melo said. “He can’t take the shots with him. I don’t want him to stop shooting. I want him to stay aggressive.”

On Thursday night back at Madison Square Garden for Game 5, Smith and the Knicks will get a chance to redeem themselves and extend their season.

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  • BeenTrill

    As he should take blame.l

  • Sean

    You know, this series sums up the whole “let me rush to the NBA before I have developed my skills” era. JR is very talented, but he is a horrible basketball player. Same with Carmelo. He just shoots, shoots, shoots. The Knicks have 3 guys (at least) with no college (JR, Tyson, and Amare) and Carmelo (1 year). The Pacers, with George Hill, Tyler Hansbrough, Roy Hibbert, Danny Granger (though hurt), etc. are SO MUCH BETTER AT PLAYING THE GAME OF BASKETBALL than the guys on the Knicks. I mean , if you remember Tyson Chandler’s hype coming out of high school, there is no way Roy Hibbert should be twice the player he is. I’ve seen/played against Tyson probably 50 times, offensively, that dude is utterly terrible.

  • Max

    Went from Jr Swish to Jr mish.

  • http://www.facebook.com/devin.williams1 Devin Williams

    Stick a fork in em cus they’re done

  • shockexchange

    Nobody is to blame for the Knicks’ loss but the Pacers – Hibbert, Paul George, George Hill, et. al. It’s Indiana’s time.

  • Zabbah

    melo won thr ncaa title in that year. he was the best college player. what else was he going to do but go pro?

  • Da Real

    this guy just played his way out of about 15-20 mill. in the past week. he could have commanded 40-50m/4-5 year deal after the win streak and wining the 6th man award, but the suspension and his horrible play of late has all but negated that positive momentum. he will get a nice raise, but not the $$ or #1 spot that Harden got last year after winning the same award.

  • Marcuz

    Regardless of shooting slump hardly any teams would have made J. R the #1 option of a team….agree he would probably command a high paycheck

  • i_ball

    I agree with you about Melo, but the other points are spot on

  • jmm

    I think all of their collective experience playing professional grade basketball kind of nullifies this argument at this point.

  • RayJr

    He’s shooting about 25% this series which is down from his regular season 42% so umm yeah. What a huge dissapointment from the 6th man of the year. Maybe he hurt his elbow on Terry’s face?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    You are going to come in here and say the exact opposite when Miami beats Indiana right?
    .
    New York is the oldest team in NBA history. Big surprise they are getting their ass kicked……or not.
    .
    They have player’s who would be selfish and play like they play with years of college or not. (Jr Smith, Carmelo Anthony).
    .
    The Best player on the Pacers went to college for one year. (Paul George)
    .
    Tyson Chandler won a f*cking championship 2 years ago, and the DPOY last year. Just because Hibbert is better in this one series, doesn’t mean he’s been a better player over time.
    .
    Hype doesn’t = Potential. The hype around Tyson Chandler was unrealistic.
    .
    You know what sums up the whole “let me rush to the NBA before i have developed my skills era”?
    .
    Kobe Bryant + Tim Duncan.
    .
    Both strategies work. I can pull up info on guys who stayed in college that makes staying in college look stupid. I can pull info on guys who rushed out of HS to the League that makes doing that look stupid.
    .
    But i can’t make coming out of high school look more stupid then coming out of college. The % of guys who stay in college only to experience no success and a quick exit from the league is significantly higher than that of guys who came out of high school.

  • http://twitter.com/_DFrance DFrance

    I agree with Shock in that the Pacers deserve most pod the credit. They’ve been the better team and have won the games, let’s not make excuses for the Knicks losing.

    I saw something yesterday that bothered me tho. Down 9 with 2 minutes to go, Melo purposely fouls out of the game. Bottom line is, he’s a selfish player and if he’s not rolling offensively he quits on his team. That’s not the way to lead your team.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    no they aren’t.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    this is why Carmelo has such a historically bad win % in the playoffs

  • shockexchange

    Bout time for the finger pointing to start now, and guys throwing each other under the bus.

  • ATL dynamite

    I hope Woodson’s not the first guy to be pointed at.

  • shockexchange

    You know how these things work. Everybody is fair game, except Melo.

  • Sizzle

    Hasn’t been the same since he was accused of partying before Game 5 against Boston. Hilarious tweet of what he purportedly said out at the club before Game 5.

    “JR Smith said pour it up pour it up, watch it all fall out, I give no fucks about game 5, that’s how we ball out.

  • Jpolk23

    I like the way you watch the game but I disagree with Melo win percentage. Melo has always been a selfish player, but since no one else is making shots and Indiana is playing this semi-zone, who else is going to shoot?

    Hibbert is guarding the rim so no on can attack. Jr can’t hit the ocean and Jason Kidd won’t shoot. They aren’t playing Amare and Kmart can’t shoot there is a reason Mike Woodson got fired from Atlanta! I like Mike but I feel like he is looking for answers and not finding any. I feel like Melo is doing the same and shooting too much looking for the refs to bail him out.

  • http://basketball-performance.com/ Basketball Tips

    I wonder why he’s so pressured. he should relax, it’s not that the whole NYK franchise is leaning on his back, props in taking the blame though LOL

  • jmm

    Exactly.

  • Max

    I’m so sick of people saying that..

  • spit hot fiyah

    he definitely lost some money, but i don’t think any gm would give 10 mil a year for 4-5 years

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    The Melo win % thing is a fact. It’s not something to disagree with.

  • bike

    Of all the possible reasons why the Knicks are toast in this series, I would rank the college experience as nonexistent. There was a time when one could argue players who made the jump would have been better off going/staying in college but the evaluation of HS talent by NBA scouts is so much better now plus the NBA has learned how to train these kids for the NBA game. Tyson’s strength is defense; Carmelo’s is offense. The Pacers are playing well, the Knicks are not playing well, Amare is hurt, JR is in a slump, etc. Winning playoff b-ball has a lot to do with a team peaking at the right time plus hitting the injury lottery at the right time.

  • Daniel Noel

    me too

  • The Saviour

    Totally agree with this fact, even without checking the stats it’s long been known he is a selfish player that cannot succeed in the playoffs.

  • LP @ThisisEther

    wtf are you talking about? Tyson Chandler is a NBA champion and Gold medalist..two golds, i think …….JR is 6th man of the year….AMare was GREAT with Phoenix, maxed out his potential, i think…Why would you say things like this????????

  • http://twitter.com/_DFrance DFrance

    Can’t fire the players unfortunately

  • shockexchange

    Bottom line is if a dog never caught a rabbit then “that dog don’t hunt.” The Knicks haven’t won anything so the Shock Exchange doesn’t understand their disappointment. The Pacers are for real.

  • bill

    Then he should’ve stuck with the starting 5 that won him 13 in a row during the regular season instead of changing their game plan in the middle of the playoffs.

  • bill

    He’s this year’s playoffs James Harden experience.

  • i_ball

    You are right that a lot of players have succeeded with little or no college experience. But there are certain types of players that just need to go there – especially big men. Chandler is great defensively but he is 7 ft with 0 offensive skills. If he wasn’t good defensively what good would he be at his age to any team.

    If you are a guard/wing you start learning how shoot and dribble in probably when you are 10 – 12. Not many if any people try to learn post moves in high school or earlier. And adding to your game comes with practice you don’t get a lot of that in an NBA season. Skipping college is one of the reasons for not having superstar big men anymore. There are exceptions of course – KG comes to mind instantly I have to google others.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Dude, there is no logical reason to think the development of basketball skills is greater in college then the NBA. Seriously, just think about it.
    .
    The only advantage in college stems from discipline. Everything else, the NBA has clear advantages.
    .
    Better coaching.
    Individual coaches.
    Full time basketball schedule (no classes, curfews).
    Nutritionist.
    Personal Trainer.
    .
    Tyson Chandler doesn’t have offensive skills because he doesn’t have the ability to develop them. Not because he skipped college.
    .
    The rule changes are why dominant big men are so rare. It has nothing to do with High School and College.
    .
    The 3 best big men in the league skipped college anyway.

  • i_ball

    Discipline is very important when it comes to skill development. The 3 best big men skipped college and this season was the first without a twenty-ten guy.

    The list of advantages in the NBA counts for nothing without discipline. With all the distractions around the pro game I bet it’s hard for a 19 year old millionaire to keep his focus.

    Time will tell – DaMarcus Cousins, Anthony Davis. Their development will prove one of the points. Davis was supposed to be the second coming of Timmy. Let’s see if he is a 20/10 guy in two years

  • http://www.netstakeover.com/ JetSkiJohnson

    Brook Lopez went to College lol

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nathan-Shane-Long/580141409 Nathan Shane Long

    JR SMITH is and has been one of the biggest clowns in the NBA nothing more than idiot and a Carmelo groupie

  • http://twitter.com/Jzakoni D dot Sanchez

    this whole knicks team is letting everyone down.

  • http://twitter.com/Jzakoni D dot Sanchez

    paul, george, ringo & john.

  • http://twitter.com/Jzakoni D dot Sanchez

    me 2

  • bike

    Good point. Some kids are simply not mature enough to handle the travel, grind, money, etc. of the nba environment. Those would be better off spending time in college. Ideally, the NBA can spot that trait early enough and hopefully advise the kid to stay in school. I think the NBA is much better now at doing that that say 20 years ago.

  • http://twitter.com/Jzakoni D dot Sanchez

    see ya later kniccks

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Dwight Howard, Andrew Bynum, Marc Gasol.

  • shockexchange

    Sancheeezzz!

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    “DaMarcus Cousins, Anthony Davis. Their development will prove one of the points.”

    - No. It won’t.

    .

    Derrick Coleman
    .
    .
    Case and Point.

  • http://twitter.com/Jzakoni D dot Sanchez

    hahaha im still waiting for my book stock!

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    sure discipline is important, but you can’t tell me discipline is the overriding factor over everything.
    .
    The league is a perimeter game. the absence of big man has NOTHING to do with college vs high school.
    .
    The absence of a 20-10 guys has NOTHING do with college vs high school.
    .
    Repeatedly saying something doesn’t make it true. There is no correlation between the college/high school era and the absence of big men. shiiiiit, you could argue the death of the big man coincided with the no more high school guys rule (even though they are also completely unrelated).
    .
    the last 2 great high school player’s drafted into the NBA were big men.
    .
    Of all the high school to nba guys, 4 of the top 7 are big men. (Kobe, LeBron, Garnett, Stoudemire, Howard, McGrady, Bynum)
    .
    And if you want to go by the average length of a career for a guy who stayed in College for 4 years, vs a guy who came out of high school…..it would be drastically supportive of guys skipping college.

  • Max

    Not me! :D

  • Max

    Except Harden played wonderfully up until the finals.

  • http://twitter.com/AjpDos Allen Powell

    It is hilarious how he ignored Paul George’s one and done colle career right? Or that the Pacers collapsed down the stretch in the regular season. Lol.

  • shockexchange

    Email me your address. Put on a flame retardant suit before you read it though … it’s fire.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    they are living up to expectations.

  • i_ball

    When he was drafted I was less than a year old I haven’t watched this guy and don’t really know what kind of hype was there about him since he was drafted first.

    The internet says that he was a “reliable low post scorer” but was apparently immature his whole career and is now broke. Skill wise he was good. And that’s what we are talking about. If you are immature at 30 nothing can help you with that issue.

    So your point is that this guy would have done better has he skipped/stayed less in college.

    I don’t think staying in college hurts anybody’s career if they don’t get injured of course. If LeBron and Kobe had gone to college, their pro careers would have stayed as impressive – just shorter. On the other hand some other careers would be better if players stayed an extra year.

    I know we are talking about big men but the first guy that comes to mind is Tray Burke.

  • Max

    Do you feel it?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i’m saying, discipline is an advantage in college, but it isn’t a certainty. And it isn’t a huge advantage. It’s minor.

    .

    Derrick Coleman is the most talented human being to play in the NBA in the 1990′s. And the 80s. He was a 20 and 10 guy while spending the off season drinking beer and sitting on his porch.

    .

    I am not being sarcastic…..

    .

    .

    “Derrick Coleman – I know, I know – how can a guy who averaged a double-double for five years still on this list? He could have done it for ten years. Attitude, alcohol, and weight issues ruined what should have been a Hall of Fame career. I loved this guy at Syracuse in the 80s, and thought he’d win a title or two in the NBA. His NBA career can be summed up thusly: “Whoop-de-damn-do.””

    - http://www.thebiglead.com/index.php/2011/08/08/the-10-biggest-wastes-of-basketball-talent-in-the-last-20-years/

    .
    Just the first example that came up.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk
  • danpowers

    i guess spending the major part of his carreer in the strong west on denver teams that probably wouldnt have made the playoffs without him in the first place doesnt have anything to do with it?

  • danpowers

    indy plays nice, but the knicks shot themselves out of the game more than anything else in game 4. they clanged too many open shots to say it was all the pacers.
    health and a collective shooting slump are bigger concerns for a knick fan than the pacers.
    dont get me wrong, the pacers are a great team and i love the way they play. im just more disappointed by how things went for the knicks so far than i am impressed by the way indiana plays.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Probably more to do with how he plays basketball.
    .
    And those teams would have made the playoffs (except the first one). They just wouldn’t have won as much in the regular season.

  • http://www.facebook.com/OMGitsKINGDAVID Kinq David II

    JR Smith threw away millions with that elbow SMH

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i think he just thought he was onto something and ran with it. didn’t really think about it past his initial “aha” moment…..that looks like something i would have typed 3 years ago.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i hope it’s not made of paper

  • i_ball

    A damn waste:(

    There are the NBA distractions. This example kind of proves both our points. Imagine he skipped college – nobody would even know he was that good. He would have been the first Kwame Brown.

  • danpowers

    as there can be just one champion means that 29 teams out there are dogs that dont hunt?

  • i_ball

    The difference will probably be under 4 years as the college guy would have played 150 games while in college.

    Out of the 4 big men two have a post game. But it took them 2-3 years to get going. Like I said I doubt their careers would be worse had the gone to college (Bynum is an exception with the knee problems). 2 years shorter – yes but just as remarkable. And their career per game stats would be better

  • http://twitter.com/Jzakoni D dot Sanchez

    pacer fan?

  • http://twitter.com/Jzakoni D dot Sanchez

    haha will do.

    i’ll also give it a honest review so the curious shy thinkers of slam could know how it is.

  • danpowers

    the knicks started two comebacks on short runs. smith ended both by taking shots that were even stupid by his standards. i guess he knows what he did and that besides other smaller flaws is why he especially blames himself. he established himself as the 2nd scoring option on the team and the knicks relied on that. now he is a total letdown. rumors about clubbing, the flu, and that unnecessary suspension against the celtics seemed to provide huge distractions for the team and somehow the start of all drama for ny.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    nah, Derrick Coleman was so good he would have put up ridiculous numbers in the NBA as a teenage kid. he almost won a national championship as a freshman. in a time where the best young players in the world were still in college.

    . http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/derrick-coleman-1.html

    .

    his scoring numbers aren’t staggering, but he was playing on a really good Syracuse team. He did lead them in rebounding. Ronny Seikley was just a better offensive option at the time.

    .
    Kwame Brown had no business being a #1 pick. Him being a bust is on Michael Jordan. Not on him not living up to his potential.

  • shockexchange

    nbk – It’s flame retardant paper. C’mon … work with the Shock Exchange would ya?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i should have known. that’s my bad, of course it’s retardant.

  • http://twitter.com/Jzakoni D dot Sanchez

    i was honestly beliving they could put up a fight with this pacers squad. but the knicks are looking weak & lost.

    def wasnt expecting that

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    that’s because of who you are. not because of what is right.

  • i_ball

    I should agree with you on this one since I never watched the guy. And about Kwame too

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i’m just talking sh*t. most people expected this to be a good series.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Check him out, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekAfz4deGL8 – he was kind of like the 90s version of LeBron. Except he was a PF with wing skills. Not a SF with PG skills.

  • danpowers

    explaining the fact matters tho and leaves room to agree or disagree.

    im a bit hesitant to call any pro player actually selfish coz even if i dont like some guy’s style of play (e.g. kobe, melo, westbrook) or to take being selfish as an explanation for a lack of success i think that scoring is just a role like any other. at least in the pros.
    kobe is the best example to prove that even quite inefficient volume shooting can lead to championships if the supporting cast and coaching fit that style of play into a working concept. (not trying to put melo and kobe on the same level here).

    i think to be fair we have to state the fact that most (if not all, if im wrong i apologize for my bad memory) teams he lost against in the playoffs were power houses / contenders and quite often champs (e.g. spurs, heat, lakers) and that most other guys, having more of a reputation to be leaders, unselfish, etc… wouldnt have won with these denver or knicks teams neither.

  • danpowers

    lol terry cursed the elbow. or just bad karma maybe

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Kobe is a much much much better player than Carmelo has ever or will ever be.
    .
    Carmelo Anthony is a selfish scorer, a poor leader, and he doesn’t play defense.
    .
    Sorry dude, he’s never going to win as a team’s main guy.
    .
    The “if” stuff, is just “if” stuff. It doesn’t mean anything. We have the facts that we have.

  • danpowers

    seriously, what does clanging wide open shots and running around like a headless chicken on defense have to do with an impressive performance by the other team?
    indy is playing well like they normally do. the knicks dont. plain and simple.

  • http://twitter.com/Jzakoni D dot Sanchez

    the whole knicks squad is shooting like sh!t.

    whats your prediction for tonights games?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Miami by 16.
    OKC by 7

  • shockexchange

    And for giving the Shock exchange back talk, go up to the bulletin board and write the words “Pulitzer Prize” 1,500 times.

  • danpowers

    you didnt see that i wrote “not trying to put melo and kobe on the same level here”?

    facts and results are often misleading if you dont explain the why, when and how properly.

    so leave out the “if” sentense and tell me: am i wrong when i say that melo was always on inferior teams compared to the teams by which he got beaten and that those teams were normally contenders or actually went on to win the championship? i am not.

    i wont argue that he plays in a way that can be called selfish. im just saying lets be fair: the dude had bad luck with being in the wrong place in the wrong time for many years.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    The Knicks have to work harder to even get shots around the rim.
    The Knicks are shooting horrible around the rim.
    The Knicks are now tired, because the Pacers play such magnificent defense.
    The Knicks, because they are tired, are now missing even wide open jumpers.
    .
    The Knicks are losing because the Pacers are beating them.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Bulletin Board? Come on bruh. You can do better, edit that. And get back to me.

  • pposse

    fyi I downvoted this comment. I would do it 100 times more if i could too

  • danpowers

    yeah, i guess being one or two steps too slow has nothing to do with many guys being hurt, ill or banged up.

    nba pro athletes are conditioned in a way to get tired when another team is making them work, also when they get long breaks between the games? didnt know that, thanks for teaching me.

  • danpowers

    why waste time? many night clubs are missing him already

  • http://twitter.com/Jzakoni D dot Sanchez

    miami yes..

    okc.. i can only hope.

  • shockexchange

    Write it nbk! You can catch carpal tunnel syndrome for all he cares.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    DENVER WASN’T EVEN COMPETING IN THOSE SERIES.

    People think he is good enough to lead a team to a title. Which is what my argument is against.

    Not calling him a bad player.

    Let’s make sure that is stated.
    Carmelo Anthony’s playoff record by year….ready?

    . 2003-04 = 0 Wins – 4 Losses

    . 2004-05 = 1 Wins – 4 Losses

    . 2005-06 = 1 Wins – 4 Losses

    . 2006-07 = 1 Wins – 4 Losses

    . 2007-08 = 0 Wins – 4 Losses

    . 2008-09 = 10 Wins – 6 Losses (WCF)

    . 2009-10 = 2 Wins – 4 Losses

    . 2010-11 = 0 Wins – 4 Losses

    . 2011-12 = 1 Win – 4 Losses

  • danpowers

    hm i didnt expect anything of him b4 he joined the knicks. i was still impressed by him during his rookie season and the 2008 campaign tho.
    i just remember that he was always that dude getting into the way of his conference’s heavywheights early, as there were many in the west during these years.

    paul pierce had the same reputation b4 garnett and allen joined him. then people changed his reputation and so the recognition of his history. i think the same happens with melo whenever he gets the right supporting cast. he has a decent one now, just with bad luck regarding health.

    put the opposing teams into that, the nuggets rosters, too, if you want to make a valid point with his record. if you put it like that this statement is lacking any explanation.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Injuries? The Pacers don’t have an All Star. HAHA the Knicks aren’t THAT hurt.
    .
    .
    Save me with that bullsh*t. Every team is hurt.
    .
    You don’t see your Knicks bias yet? Wanna go back to the conversation about how you were sure the Knicks were better like a week ago?
    .
    Now you are chalk full of excuses. Color me surprised.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    who cares?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    you don’t write on a bulletin board dummy. at least be better at being random.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    no it isn’t. i don’t need to explain why Melo is never going to win when it matters in the playoffs. He’s been dog food for every good team he’s played against. He’s never even put up a fight.

    .

    The two playoff teams he has beat…..

    the 2008-09 Mavericks. Which featured a starting lineup that included Erick Dampier and Antoine Wright……and had a worse record then his Nuggets…

    AND

    Chris Paul’s ridiculously overrated Hornets. Which featured an injured Tyson Chandler, Peja Stojakovic without the ability to run, and RASUAL BUTLER.
    .
    HAHAHA

    big whoop.

  • pposse

    yo momma!

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    oh fa real? i wonder why

  • Max

    lolol

  • http://twitter.com/Jzakoni D dot Sanchez

    akon said to put the blame on him.

  • danpowers

    true or false:martin and smith didnt practice 3 days b4 game 4 due to illnes?

    stoudemire returned after how many games of absense?

    is chandler healthy since his injury? does he look anything close to that to you?

    Id even leave shumpert and anthony out as these actually are the nags and tweaks all players deal with every once in a while.

    till here: just stating the obvious. facts. not excuses.

    except stat, arent these guys main guys of the knicks rotation for the team that put up 54?

    now with what injuries do the pacers have to deal with at the moment? danny granger, whos absence is comparable to stats and like stats for the knicks a blessing in disguise.

    i said a healthy knicks team is better than the pacers. the knicks are not healthy so it doesnt suprise me how the series goes so far. the pacers are great i wont argue that. it would take the whole strenght of the knicks (or something close to that) to beat that squad, but they simply are not at whole strenght. at least less than the pacers are. FACT

    they wont use it as an excuse tho. the bulls or thunder didnt use injuries as an excuse neither. but we all know these are the main reasons why these teams come short of what they are capable of.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    LOL. blaming why they are losing on them being more unhealthy is an excuse. Facts and Excuses aren’t opposites. Please, think about what words mean, before you jump to some conclusion about them.

    .

    it’s the playoffs. every team is hurt. i don’t care for the excuses. if the guys are good enough to play….

    .

    f*ck man, YOU came in here and argued with me that the Knicks could beat the Heat.

    .

    Right now, the Knicks, who are healthier then the Bulls, are putting up just as much of a fight against INDIANA as the Bulls are against MIAMI.

    .

    Here is why the Knicks are losing, http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/5/13/4326824/pacers-knicks-nba-playoffs-2013-game-3

    .
    Give credit where credit is due.

  • The Seed

    I actually blame Melo as the leader of the Knicks.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    THIS, “hm i didnt expect anything of him b4 he joined the knicks.”
    .
    Sums you up PERFECTLY

  • danpowers

    the two that he beat? i was talking about the teams that beat his teams. and i know why you didnt come up with these ;) big whoop? lol thats cheap.

    there you go with the early exits:

    04 – 8th seed nuggets against 1st seed wolves (contenders that season)

    05 – 7th seed nuggets against 2nd seed spurs who won it all that year

    06 – 3rd seed nuggets against 6th seed clippers. you shouldve used that to taunt him. do your homework man ;)

    07 – bad luck again, 7th seed nuggets against 2nd seed spurs who went on again to win it all.

    08 – bad luck again: 1st round exit to the lakers who were contenders and advanced to the finals

    09 – conf finals they lost to the lakers who won it all back then.

    10 – (edit: forgot that one, my bad) exit against the jazz. teams were quite even. if you think anthony didnt compete or fought, look at his numbers. dont imply to me he quit on his team then. 30,7ppg, 46fg%, 42mpg, 8,5rpg, 3,3apg, 2,0spg, 87ft%

    you put it as “he has beat”. dude… basketball is a team sport. this pathos / hero gloryfication is a bit unworthy of a basketball discussion imo. we are not 14 year old kids discussing about their favorite poster guys.

    yes, he never proved to be a great leader. what i just said is that he aint that bad neither. to be fair he hardly ever played on a title contender and didnt have a powerhouse team around him often but faced those teams almost every year.

    to look reasonable be fair.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    This is why you are so frustrating to talk to,

    .

    I didn’t name each individual team that beat him, but i did address what you said, “He’s been dog food for every good team he’s played against. He’s never even put up a fight.”

    _ HE’S NEVER PUT UP A FIGHT

    .

    Why do I need to name who he lost to? I don’t.

    .

    You just want me to.

    .

    I named who he beat, because his success in the playoffs is also irrelevant. As that is the only time he’s even won more than 3 games in a series, it was worth mentioning who he beat.

    .

    in basketball, great players are measured by winning. they are measured, as individuals, by winning.

    .

    You want me to just say Carmelo Anthony is this generations Tracy McGrady?

    .

    Then what are you going to say? McGrady only played for the Knicks for one year, now you can’t even form an argument.

    .

    “bad luck” doesn’t net you a drudging in the playoffs every year.

    .

    You disagree, because Melo is on the Knicks.

    .

    You say you don’t, but you also wouldn’t have an opinion otherwise.

    . “i didnt expect anything of him b4 he joined the knicks.”

    .
    Uhh. This is going like all conversations with you go. Big surprise again.
    .
    You disagree, Melo can lead a team to a championship in your opinion.
    .
    The stars just have to align, injuries have to disappear. No Big Deal.

  • Max

    Grizz by 6 thats the rule.

  • danpowers

    lol

  • Max

    2nd team.

  • Max

    Bravo man.

  • danpowers

    so if banged up players lose against healthier players we are not allowed to include injuries into our conclusions about why a team loses because it could be pointed out as an excuse? bulls, thunder or celtics wouldnt have done better without their injury problems?

    i always said a healthy knicks team would be the biggest threat to the heat in the east. unfortunately they arent healthy enough to prove it. during an 82 game stretch when all teams had to deal with injuries (and the knicks with more than the pacers) we saw the pecking order in the east by the teams’ records.

    i never argued that the pacers are playing good defense. i wont argue that they play well. so where dont i give credit? i just see the knicks playing below their capabilities for many reasons since “the elbow”. its more internal struggles than what the pacer put up (which is still alot tho, no doubt).

  • danpowers

    i didnt care much about him b4 he didnt play on the knicks, i still observed and judged him by my means as i do with most players in the nba. and yes, to me he looked like a guy with alot of bad luck or yeah, you put it nicely: as his generations tracy mcgrady.
    he pulled alot of drama and media attention and signed a big contract which is on the knicks payroll. so i have some reasons to expect smth from him now that he is our main guy. whats so wrong or biased about that?

    i agree with valid points and disagree with witch hunt.

    i didnt say that melo can lead a team to a championship. at least not on his own. if i have to name one player who could… i wouldnt be able to name just one tho, as basketball is still a team sport.

    there are guys who can lead teams which are slightly inferior to opposing teams to success, true. i am aware that melo is none of them. so where is your problem here? stop reading more into what i write than i actually write. and dont put words into my mouth /keyboard that i didnt say/type, please.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    You were not adamant about “if healthy” – you may have said it at some point, but it wasn’t your sticking point as I remember it. If I’m wrong, my bad.

    You are taking the Pacers winning and making excuses about how it’s just because the Knicks are hurt.

    .

    It’s an excuse. It lessens the Pacers.
    .
    It’s the same thing parents do when their kids aren’t doing well. Make up a bunch of reasons for why they are better than they seem.
    .
    The ifs are irrelevant. Stop arguing with me about them. Ifs are never considered when its all said and done. Considering them while things happen is pointless.

  • danpowers

    i said if healthy back then when we had our discussion about which team would be the biggest threat to the heat in the east (while i also wrote that the heat would still be the favorite to win).

    its not my fault that the fact that the knicks are more banged up than the pacers lessens the pacers performance. the knicks ARE more banged up than the pacers. by far. i dont look at other teams or series here. its just a fact.

    you play basketball yourself, right? are you as good as you normally are when you are hurt? well, i am not. as much as i would love to and as much as i try, when im hurt im not as good as i am when im healthy. when i lose then, i dont say it and dont blame it on the injuries. i also dont rlly hear or see knicks players doing that (except as sidenotes every once in a while which all teams / guys do tho). thats just smth like an unwritten code of sportsmanship between competitors.

    but i think as observers we are allowed to state the obvious, why shouldnt we?

  • danpowers

    just picking what you need and put it in a way how you need it to “win” an arguement shows me that you are more interested in “winning” an arguement than just sticking to facts. youre more interested into trying to explain i would be biased about the knicks than sticking to the topic.

    by that you are behaving and arguing more than a dumped gf than an adult person discussing about a topic.

    i never said melo was a great leader. just mentioned the fact that he mostly had less support and tougher foes earlier in the playoffs than many other more fortunate guys. not in every year but most of the way, which is a big part of his horrible playoff record.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Oh my word. There is no witch hunt.
    .
    Why do you keep repeating basketball is a team sport? what do you mean lead a team on their own? Lead a team means be the best player and leader. And you have said that. Your ability to use “American English” / “basketball slang” needs a lot of work.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Because its not the obvious.
    .
    The Knicks are worse than the pacers when 100% healthy.
    .
    The only thing that’s obvious is that it wouldn’t be this much of a mismatch.
    .
    That’s it.

  • danpowers

    “The Knicks are worse than the pacers when 100% healthy.”

    well, if thats your opinion, fine. i just disagree and no matter how much we argue and discuss about it, we wont see proof to back anything up here.

    what about looking at what actually happened so far? for whatever reasons the pacers played better than the knicks so far and deserve their 3-1 lead. opinions about the how and why just slightly differ.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    You already knew that was my opinion. And countless others.
    .
    You are arguing your opinion as an obvious fact. And you don’t even notice it, you see why that would be so frustrating?

  • danpowers

    yes im working on that man. and im open for any corrections and suggestions regarding my language.

    i repeat that because in american sports that whole pathos thing about pointing out individual heros is a little overblown. great guys are traditionally overplayed and teamplay comes quite short in the nba in general as single players sell more jerseys. thats all what the awards are about. at least primarily.

    a good example is paul pierce and his reputation throughout the years. that was quite similar to anthonys reputation of now. how successful was pierce b4 melo came? not really successful. not that much of a reputation to be a leader. it was said that he was selfish, just a scorer, a tad bit lazy on defense. then came kg and allen, he had better looks down the stretch, bought into that big 3 concept and out of a sudden he was THE man. unselfish leader, who has always been the celtics leader, versatile scorer, etc… as if he never had any flaws or won sh*t b4 these guys joined him.

    its not about your oppinion, its about what i read. couldve also be written by somebody else. you often exaggerate a bit when it comes to anthonys flaws imo. i dont even disagree that anthony is not such a great leader in the playoffs. i didnt even say that i am against what you wrote about him. i just wanted to extent the aspects you brought up.

    on one hand you got melo as the poor leader and bring his bad playoff record as proof. but on the other hand you leave out how that came together.

    its not that i only watch knicks games man i just dont have the time to watch ALL nba games. but enough to watch every single knicks game and know more about all kind of tangibles from all kind of sources around the team. and when a guy enters the team i dig his history a bit more than i tend to do about guys on other teams. even though im also observing the rest of the league, just not that much.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Yes and Kevin Garnett was the best player on that Boston team…..which is my point about Melo. He needs someone better than him.

  • danpowers

    what is there to argue? i said the knicks are more banged up than the pacers. you argue that? then youre either an idiot or just lieing.

    and that IS an aspect why a team struggles. especially an older team against the younger team when the young guys are healthy.

    i dontn lessen the pacers by that. thats just the disappointment by someone rooting for the knicks. especially when you know and saw whats possible when they are healthy and clicking. thats the knicks part of the games outcome (wasnt a thread pointing out what goes right for the pacers. look at the topic: its about the knicks woes. in a pacers thread you’d see me appreciating their performance)

    the pacers defense surely is another reason for their success. this here is just about how you estimate these two aspects. and youre tryin to play me here as if i was looking for excuses. injuries are a FACT.
    i didnt pull any biased sh*t here. trying to say health is not a factor of success or failure in sports is not an opinion, it is just untrue. thats what i am arguing here.

    i enlarge my initial statements not to argue for myself. you accuse me of bias and i just explain to you why i wrote what i wrote to EXPLAIN what i said to you when you keep refusing to recogniize aspects or arguments that dont back your opinion. that may help you getting the upper hand at arguing from a methodical point of view, but not the facts / truth itself.

  • danpowers

    yup.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Holy sh*t you need to just reread the conversation and pretend you didn’t take a part in it and its not about the Knicks. Repeating yourself in a slightly different way doesn’t change anything.
    .
    Focusing my comments on one aspect of everything you have said is a fallacy. I didn’t say everything you said was wrong. I didn’t say you saying the Knicks are more banged up is wrong. You came in and argued that the reason the Knicks are losing is because they are hurt. You treated that as the primary reason. AND you acted as if it were fact. That is what was wrong with what you said. And that is what I was talking about. Nothing more. Stop repeating your circular self. You aren’t clarifying anything,.
    .

  • danpowers

    you neither by just asserting the opposite lol. im telling you that what the pacers bring up here would not be enough to beat the knicks when they are healthy. they aint so its pointless to argue about it anyway.

    you could argue now by telling me i couldve stopped arguing earlier then. but man, so could you. regardless of our positions – that makes us both some kind of idiots lol

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    That is your dumbass opinion. Stop presenting it as fact.
    .
    Arguing with a person with your opinion does nothing. What don’t you get? Your opinion seems dumb, it seems biased, and it isn’t supported by any facts. Are you really not sure why I don’t want to hear it? You don’t even stick to a point. You just morph what you say to try and fit a Knicks slated narrative. Like I said at the top of this argument, ”

    nbk danpowers • 4 hours ago −
    that’s because of who you are. not because of what is right”
    .
    Meaning, that’s your opinion. It’s not a fact. Stop presenting as such.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Exactly. All of that because you aren’t paying attention to what you are reading.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Hey thanks I think

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    PROVE what you say. Saying I am not including information in order to make my argument stronger and not showing where I did that is a fallacy. It basically comes off as an attempt at character assassination and an attempt to do the exact same thing in terms of “winning” the argument.
    .
    Which you started.
    .
    Talking about acting like a dumped GF. If you don’t like what I say, and don’t want to argue, don’t say anything to me. That’s how simple that is.

  • danpowers

    same goes for your point. youre more biased on the knicks than i am, just reversed.

  • danpowers

    i did that up there when i was giving the example of the link between health and performance. you didnt answer to that and went on with repeating your own point. that aint reasonable arguing neither and pretty dumb-a*s stuff, too.

  • danpowers

    as much as you not being thoroughly in your statements.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    I didn’t present my opinion as fact dude. Read what I actually say. Not what you wish I said.
    .
    “The only thing that’s obvious is that it wouldn’t be this much of a mismatch”

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    QUOTE:
    .
    “People think he is good enough to lead a team to a title. Which is what my argument is against”
    .
    Read better. Seriously.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Show me what you are talking about.

  • danpowers

    that may be your opinion, fine. to me thats just far from obvious

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Lol, I don’t even understand how you can disagree with that. I’m not saying Indiana would definitely win, or that they are definitely better. Just if New York were healthy it wouldn’t be like this.

  • danpowers

    “…that melo was always on inferior teams compared to the teams by
    which he got beaten and that those teams were normally contenders or
    actually went on to win the championship”

    you ignored that in your arguments. or from the other discussion:

    “you play basketball yourself, right? are you as good as you normally are when you are hurt?”

    no answer to that from you. didnt look further, its late. ill go to bed now, gn8

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    “i don’t need to explain why Melo is never going to win when it matters in the playoffs. He’s been dog food for every good team he’s played against. He’s never even put up a fight.”
    .
    I didn’t say who beat him because he didn’t stand a chance. I was just showing that when he is leading the team against great teams, he is going to be routed. Who beat him is irrelevant, the point was that he has never proven to be able to put up much of a fight as a teams best player.
    .
    The other question is irrelevant and hopefully rhetorical assuming you realize we are both human and understand basic biology. I already acknowledged the Knicks would be better (just not better enough to win, and that’s where we disagree – but neither OPINION is FACT) and you already know the answer to that stupid question.
    .
    I would really appreciate it if you paid attention to my comments as a whole. And not one by one like a small child. It would make this easier and less ridiculous for both of us.

  • http://twitter.com/Esquire_J Esquire J

    I believe that Melo is a better than the McGrady comparison. But I do understand the argument. Playing in the west is harder than playing in the east. (McGrady played in the East for 10 Years)

    McGrady never exited the 1st round and every time he has (only 2x) he was never a factor on those teams. (Spurs and Rockets).

    To say that Melo is not putting up a fight is also false as he is the Knicks only offensive weapon. FACT JASON KIDD has not scored in the entire series. Tyson Chandler has scored in double figures once.. Shumpert scored in double figures twice … Novak is not playing and Stoudemire plays less than 10 minutes a game.

    Outside of game 2 no one has done anything worth noting for the Knicks on offense. I am not defending Melo at all he needs to be a better playmaker but he isnt. So I guess you are right the stars must align for him to do something noteworthy like win a championship.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Bro, this is the Pacers. The Heat are still next. Losing 4-1 Pacers is not much of a fight. I understand he’s trying hard, and scoring some points. But he’s not changing the game. And he’s not even playing the best team.

  • http://twitter.com/Esquire_J Esquire J

    No one expects the heat to loose … but in reality I just thought this would be a better series and I would argue that it should be but it ain’t and that’s disappointing

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    I agree. I am disappointed. I thought the team would be more mature. But there are certain aspects of their game the Knicks just don’t seem to be able to get over.

  • dacre

    Like that solid D…..and having no heart.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Yeah, lol, that.

  • fruizm

    haha damn youre like a stat machine!!

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    That one had to be looked up. Lol

  • danpowers

    “I would really appreciate it if you paid attention to my comments as a
    whole. And not one by one like a small child. It would make this
    easier and less ridiculous for both of us.”

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