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Wednesday, May 8th, 2013 at 8:53 am  |  73 responses

Post Up: Counterpunch

The Knicks and Grizzlies both win after dropping Game 1.

Knicks 105, Pacers 79 (Series tied 1-1)

After getting punched in the mouth during its Game 1 loss on Sunday, the Knicks retaliated with a second half flurry to even the series at one heading back to Indiana. New York ended the third quarter on a 10-2 run and absolutely steamrolled the Pacers in the fourth, going on a 30-2 run that put them up 26 and prompted head coach Frank Vogel to pull his starters and call it a night.

The Pacers played the Knicks even through much of the first three quarters and  led 64-62 with just over three minutes to go in the third when coach Vogel decided to burn a timeout and replaced Roy Hibbert with Jeff Pendergraph. As soon as Melo saw Hibbert on the bench, his eyes lit up and he took it right to the rack and yammed on Pendegraph. From that point on, it was all New York.

“You gotta give them credit, they played a great basketball game,” said Vogel. “Twenty one turnovers is self inflicting and not handling their pressure and giving them 13 second chance shots really cost us the game. You’re not going to win a game when you give the other team 23 more shots than you take.”

During Game 1, the Pacers used their size to disrupt the Knicks rhythm and shut them down offensively. In Game 2, the Knicks broke out of their slump, shooting just under 50 percent from the field while scoring 52 points in the paint compared to the Pacers 40. Carmelo Anthony, who has come under much scrutiny for his recent cold streak, shot the lights out during New York’s 30-2 run, scoring 16 of his 32 points during the stretch.

“I can’t stop attacking, I can’t stop being aggressive out there on the basketball court,” said Melo. “I think I did a good job of making some adjustments out there and was just being patient. In that first game I thought I was being a little too impatient coming off the pick and rolls…Tonight it was just a matter of getting to the paint and distributing the ball and getting guys open shots.”

The playoffs are always an awesome time for role players to step up and push their way into the spotlight, and Knicks guard Pablo Prigioni got his time to shine. Prigioni (it’s been a great few days for Argentinian basketball, huh?) stepped in after Raymond Felton went down with what looked like an ankle injury and opened the fourth quarter with a 3-pointer and floater in the lane that sent the Garden faithful into hysterics. Prigioni also found Tyson Chandler for a huge alley-oop later in the quarter that put a stamp on the victory. Prigioni finished with 10 points on 4-4 shooting.

“Tonight Pablo was spectacular on both ends of the court,” said Anthony. “He controlled the game and controlled the ball, on defense he pressured the ball and it got us up and pressuring the ball too.”

Not to be outdone by his teammate, Iman Shumpert finished with 15 points on 7-11 shooting which included a huge putback dunk, and continued his stellar defense to earn the praises of his coach.

“He’s getting better,” said Woodson of Shump. “He’s come a long way…He’s got a lot of pop now, he’s moving well laterally, he’s jumping well and he’s shooting the ball. He’s doing all the things we thought he was going to do and I can’t help but think he’s going to grow and get better.”

Despite the blowout loss, the Pacers are feeling good after stealing Game 1 in New York. Heading back home, where they compiled a 30-11 record during the regular season, there is no sense of pressure after losing by 26.

“It’s 1-1 and we still feel comfortable, it was a winnable game,” said Paul George who led the Pacers with 20 points. “Going into the fourth, we had all the confidence, we just couldn’t make shots..Being on an opponent’s floor, you just dig yourself in a hole when you shoot like that.”

The teams have the rest of the week off and both coaches will be going back to the drawing board to figure out how to gain the upper hand heading into Game 3. Regardless of adjustments, expect more hard nosed, physical play from both teams. —Peter Walsh

Grizzlies 99, Thunder 93 (Series tied 1-1)

Memphis was better than OKC for most of Game 1, and they were better for all of Game 2. The Grizzlies led at the break but trailed by 5 after three. The deficit was erased with a quick fourth quarter run, which put the Grizz up 84-80 with 7:41 to play. A Mike Conley triple gave them a two-point advantage with under two minutes left, and his jumper with 1:04 remaining created some separation. Memphis hung on from there.

After struggling in Game 1, Conley was unbelievable last night. He scored 26 points (11/22) with 10 boards and 9 assists and only 2 turnovers. He also held his counterpart Reggie Jackson to 2 assists and 3 turnovers. Marc Gasol was great, too, scoring 24 with 5 boards and 5 assists. Z-Bo added 15 and 8 and Tony Allen scored 12, and picked up 5 steals while playing his typical great defense.

Kevin Durant dropped 36 with 11 boards and 9 assists and Derek Fisher turned in a vintage performance (19 points, 4 threes) for OKC, but it wasn’t enough. Kevin Martin was awful, shooting 2-of-11 for 6 points. Reggie Jackson and Serge Ibaka, who are supposed to be the third and fourth options on the team, combined for 21 points. They need to give Durant more help. The Thunder failed to score on five of their final six possessions.

The Grizzlies had more rebounds (43-35), more points in the paint (50-30) and fewer turnovers (21-11) than the Thunder.

The series will now shift back to Memphis, and OKC is in real trouble. The Grizzlies have looked like the better team so far, and now they’ve stolen home-court advantage. Durant has been great for the Thunder, but he needs somebody else to step up like Martin did in Game 1, when he scored 25. Ibaka was a pretty reliable scorer in the regular season, but he he’s struggled offensively early on in this series.

If Conley continues to dominate like he did on Tuesday night, I can’t see the Thunder winning a game in Memphis. That would make this a six-game series, and maybe even a five-gamer. I love the Grizzlies’ chances to reach the Finals.

KD will have a chance to swing the series back in OKC’s favor with a big game on Saturday afternoon. —Leo Sepkowitz

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  • Max

    Kevin Durant has been sick since Russ went down.
    I don’t get why Perk gets so many minutes, I’ll take Collison all day every day.
    Let’s hope the Grizz keep this up!

  • logues

    i agree about collison. perk is a liability on offense out there. i mean he is just terrible. he can barely make a 5 ft shot and his rebounding isn’t good enough to make up for his lack of offense. not that collison is a great offensive player, but he’s more athletic around the hoop and can finish better, can pass better, and is just a smarter player.

  • http://tinyurl.com/GoingtotheKnicksGame SpeedsterNYC

    Knicks takin’ care of business! TAPE!!! http://tinyurl.com/GoingtotheKnicksGame

  • Hursty

    I prefer Collison over Perk too. It was amazing to me (as a Rockets fan) that Collison barely played that series. He dominated our front line outside of Asik whenever he played. But saying all that, Collison finished with 0p, 0r, 1a, 0s, 0b, 4 TO’s and 6 fouls in 16 mins last night.

  • Max

    Tony Allen called Mike Conley a top 5 pg right now.

  • i_ball

    All 4 series look great!

  • http://twitter.com/AjpDos Allen Powell

    He might crack that rotation. I have been a Conley fan for a while though.

  • danpowers

    gotta love how the pacers melted. i rlly hope that the knicks can carry this momentum on to indiana.

    and wow… shumpert almost played as well as dudley could have played if that trade wouldve went down lol

  • Max

    loool

  • Max

    If you’re not counting the injured pg’s than maybe.
    These playoffs he’s been as good as any pg not named Steph Curry.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    throughout the course of the WHOLE season, you can’t name 5 PG’s who were better. nobody can.

  • Caboose

    This season, including playoffs?
    Westbrook
    Parker
    Curry
    Paul
    Conley
    Deron
    Jrue
    Kyrie

  • Caboose

    Anybody else see that crazy flop by Felton when he ran into Hibbert?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Westbrook – Hurt
    Deron – First half of season
    Jrue – Second half of season
    Kyrie – Second half of season
    .
    Over the course of the entire season + playoffs, Conley is/was top 5 this year.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Well, even Knicks fans should know……
    .
    .
    http://m.bkref.com/m?p=XXboxscoresXX201212260PHO.html

  • Kadavour

    I’m good with that. He has personified POISE in this OKC series. He shows no panic and keeps the team under control. Kudos

  • Kadavour

    Perk has out-lived function. They got him to bang with Bynum. Not that they can’t use him in this series, but he doesn’t do enough on offense to justify his minutes.

  • Max

    Russ, Steph, TP, CP, Ty (maybe a tie, no pun intended)?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Ty? No way. You gotta account for defense man

  • Caboose

    ….yeah? That was my point. Conley is #5 on my list.

  • danpowers

    what a meaningful game in the dogdays of the season against THAT decimated knicks squad to compare it to a playoff perfomance ;) who had him most of the way tho? novak? i dont even remember

  • LakeShow

    JR Smith with a +27, to lead all players last night.
    He finished the night going 3-15 shooting.
    1-7 3 pointers for a grand total of 8 points.

    ♫”Sooooooo Riiiiiiiiiight!”♪

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Who knows. You wanna say something irrelevant about one game, so do I.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Oh my bad, i didn’t look at it in order

  • danpowers

    not sayin dudley is a bad player tho. i know hes had a great run during the season and is a good guy to have on a team. nice vet. jus sayin that a healthy shump is something else and oh boy that kid delivers now that hes back healthy

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    You are acting like he had the greatest game ever yesterday. He was pretty good but He didn’t do anything amazing or shocking yesterday at all. He had a good game, that’s as far as that goes.

  • Max

    I knew it was a push, but hey I’m happy for Mike, the Grizz will need him if they’re going to go deep.

  • spit hot fiyah

    i guess perk gets burn this series becuse of his size against gasol and z-bo, playing him against houston was meaningless though. they are better with collison on the court, but he has also been pretty terrible lately.

  • Max

    Who the hell is Bynum?

  • danpowers

    im not going to discuss any further with you by respecting your wish from yesterday as it is obvious that this would just be like extending a never ending story.

    i dont know you well enough to know if you enjoy all this smack talk here as much as i do or if you really take it as a pain in the a*s; i dont wanna let it get outta hands as it seems that you got pretty p*ssed

  • danpowers

    just because i love to be a pain in the a*s

    (ps: by tommy – ny knicks memes. does anybody know smth about this copyright sh*t? i dont lol)

  • danpowers

    so much about +- numbers lol

  • danpowers

    nope but i assume it was embarassing

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i just find it immature to revisit a disagreement repeatedly like it is proving something. all i talked about was THIS season. And Dudley, being the more consistent, more efficient, more offensively skilled player would, (in my opinion) have helped the Knicks more.
    .
    I don’t think Dudley is a better player over the course of multiple years.
    I don’t think trading Dudley for Shumpert makes sense if you plan on keeping one of the two long term.
    And a playoff series, or single game is not going to change my opinion. As i know you are aware, match ups are just as important as anything. If Shumpert matches up well, he’s going to look really good. If he doesn’t? he’s going to look really bad. The inconsistency is the main issue i have with him. Especially on a team that is already reliant on 2 of the most inconsistent guys in the whole league.
    .
    I don’t mind talking sh*t and all of that, but I don’t want to do it about a topic where one person feels so strongly that they are going to get defensive about every little thing said. At that point it get’s tedious.

  • danpowers

    i find it immature to waste time infront of a screen to comment on pages like these in the first place. but it brings joy and nothing which brings joy is a waste of time for me. also not discussing about players like that even tho you assume that im biased bout the knicks.

    dudley was all that during the season as a whole. considering that shumpert came back tho and that the rumors (as far as i remember) came after a couple of games after coming back from injury it was clear to me that he would find his form by the end of the year and he did. so to me what was more important was to have the better player come playoff time or also from the last couple of season games on, when it was about to finish 2nd in the east.

    according this to me shumpert was the better choice and during the last 20 games of the season and now in the playoffs also efficient. i think wed see way less points by dudley if he played next to jr and melo.

    to me it doesnt look like getting defensive. i was just trying to convince you, coz i really tried to push through here that i dont speak as a knicks fan. i think thats just basketball knowledge beyond numbers, if we just watch both guys play. and i already see im getting back there which i didnt want to. mea culpa man.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Blah blah blah, repeatedly saying its not about the Knicks doesn’t make that true. YOU NEVER TALK ABOUT ANYONE BUT KNICKS. Your picture is the Knicks logo. Your knowledge of other players reflects that you don’t really watch them (the garbage minutes comment, for example). .
    You saying its not about the Knicks doesn’t change all the evidence that says otherwise

  • danpowers

    ok, you made me go back there so be it.

    lol man repeatedly blaiming me doesnt prove your sh*t right neither.

    i do but then i often dont stay with what i say coz when its about other teams others often know better.

    yes my pictures is the knicks logo and i already realized that it means automatically sand in y’all vaginas even if i say something about something totally not knicks-related many guys instantly get back at me with knicks sh*t. wtf lol

    i saw dudley only in a handful of games, clear suns losses and defense didnt look too focused on him. considering the suns record that was just a logic guess which apparently didnt turn out to be actually true. mea culpa. gonna ride on it any further or you done now for f*cks sake?

    what evidence? i dont mind what shumperts numbers looked like b4 the last 20 games of the season coz that was when he was getting back to full strenght and thats when i think it makes sense to compare players. so you said your statement was about this season / now and not in the future. as far as i remember it werent that many games back then till shumpert picked it up again.

    btw numbers are a nice indication of how good someone is. but basketball is more than a calculator and you know that. different roles on different teams would even generate different numbers for the same player. so just open your f*cking eyes and watch both actually play then youll see why who put up which stats. nobody can tell how shumperts stats would be on the suns if you exchanged both guys. seeing both guys to me makes it very unlikely that shumpert would be any less than dudley NOW. and thats what my point is all about. if you argue that man you would only prove that you dont know much about basketball and are just able to judge by numbers. and i highly doubt that this is the case here. i dont see how this is a retarded or dubious argumentation except i wasted the time to type here in the first place.

  • davidR

    on a sidenote, have you seen the latest ender’s game trailer? looks badass

  • Max

    The internet laughs at the word copyright.

  • Caboose

    Look, Shumpert was hurt right? Had some lame games? THOSE ARE STILL PART OF THE SEASON.

    Nbk is arguing that Dudley had a better season and would have helped the Knicks more. You can’t just say, “oh he was hurt so it doesn’t count.” No, that’s part of the season.

    It’s like saying, “well Derrick Rose helped the Bulls more than Nate Robinson this year.” No, Rose may be the better player in the future, but Nate was better this season for Chicago.

  • spit hot fiyah

    this guy who used to play basketball

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    blaming you? what are you talking about? you always talk about the Knicks. You only show knowledge about the Knicks. There is literally no reason for me to believe your opinion about anything else is relevant. Let alone whether or not it even exists.

    .

    “i saw dudley only in a handful of games” – THEN WHY DO YOU THINK YOUR OPINION SOMEHOW IS RELEVANT? it isn’t.

    .

    “btw numbers are a nice indication of how good someone is. but basketball is more than a calculator and you know that. ” – right, but you only watched a handful of games, and obviously filled in the blanks with your imagination.

    .

    Stats cut out your imagination.

    .

    THANK GOD.

    .

    . “nobody can tell how shumperts stats would be on the suns if you exchanged both guys. seeing both guys to me makes it very unlikely that shumpert would be any less than dudley NOW”

    - are you remedial? for the countless numbered time, that is your OPINION. And that’s fine. I don’t agree. GET OVER IT. restating your opinion over and over and over and over and over and over (literally, i didn’t repeat and over enough times, not exaggerating) is not going to change ANYTHING.

    .

    .

    And if i argued that it would only prove i have a different opinion. It wouldn’t prove i, “dont know much about basketball and are just able to judge by numbers”

    - I show you numbers because I have seen both players play extensively, and you haven’t. Numbers show you who performed better.
    .
    Whether you agree with what those numbers tell you is simply an opinion. Sometimes i agree with the numbers, sometimes I don’t. But they are ALWAYS worth mentioning.
    .
    .
    You just need to get over the fact that two people can have different opinions. Without one of them being completely right, and the other being completely wrong.
    .
    That’s life.

  • danpowers

    get that point. knicks may would have struggled less in all those games they didnt have shumpert or when he was not ready yet and struggling with rust, if they had dudley then, absolutely clear.

    in the bigger picture i still stay at the point that they were better off with shumpert by the end of the year and now in the playoffs. that timespan is more relevant to me, because the trade rumor occured around 10th of february as far as i remember. after that it took just a handfull of games and shumpert was close at his old self and way more consistent than he was b4.

    so yeah, the season as a whole it wouldve been better for the knicks to have dudley instead of shumpert.

    given that the rumor occured in february and considering shumperts play during the last 20 games (check his game logs if you dont believe me. or petter tape, tells you more than the numbers) and now 7 playoff games, i dont think that dudley wouldve been the better choice.

    id normally take vets like dudley over rooks and sophomores in more or less comparable roles, coz of consitency and mental toughness. the thing is just, that shumpert plays really strong under pressure, even when vets start to shake. most importantly, he knocks down the open three down the stretch.

    in comparison to dudley: teams can use shumpert more versatile as he is a better ballhandler and defender. dudleys shooting is slightly better than shumperts recent shooting but to me not significantly.

    i dont know if a comparison between nate and a star player who is too shook to play

    between a guy who came back too early and needed to play off his rust first with another player of comparable is that appropiate. but i have to say again: yes, in that logic youre right.

  • Caboose

    I think y’all are arguing different things…

  • LakeShow

    Exactly…

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk
  • Max
  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    The Knicks did win with defense tho. And JR was on the court when Melo got hot.

  • danpowers

    i dont only talk about the knicks. just most often coz thats the team i care and know the most about.

    it does exist, maybe you just fly over the comment section or find other stuff i say not sso controversial. i also get into detail when i actually know, that i know what i am writing or talking about. that doesnt free me of any mistakes as my conclusion about dudley or back then that melo 50%fg%/foul call sh*t, but i aint shy to admit it which i dont think would be possible for any biased knick fan.

    man, you ever talked to such a person? i have to argue in that community all the f*cking time when the ref-bashing and title chatter starts lol

    because i dont need to watch a guy 82 games to know what type of guy he is. i saw him play often enough to have an oppinion about him and if i combine my impression with his stats and situation of the team he plays in im not really far from true by what i think about him. never said he was a scrub or anything like that. im talking about the comparison with a healthy shumpert this season.

    it is more than jusst a subjective impressionwhen i see some players skill set and how he uses it, how he gets used within the offense, what he brings on defense, how he reacts to pressure, athletical abilities, court awareness, etc. its still a guess but the chance that this guy would be worse on the suns is so small when you conside that guys mindset and skill, that i wouldnt consider it as logic to say he wouldnt play well there.

    saying that dudley would be better for the knicks this year… as i said: season as a whole, youre right.

    - instead of a healthy shumpert: you’d be most likely wrong based on all indications available.

    sure, its easy to accept that two people can have different oppinions. its just that i didnt get your point at all and didnt want to believe that you only go by the numbers.

  • danpowers

    hhmmm…

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    he just wants to be right. It’s not like he’s being fair in his assessment.

    .

    “in comparison to dudley: teams can use shumpert more versatile as he is a better ballhandler and defender. dudleys shooting is slightly better than shumperts recent shooting but to me not significantly.”

    - Somehow, Shumpert is a considerably better ball handler and defender, but barely a better shooter. Despite all the actual evidence saying the exact opposite. Shumpert is slightly better with the ball, and slightly better on defense right now. While Dudley is clearly better at shooting…

    .

    I mean i realize 3pt % is in Shumperts favor. — which really reflects that he is only getting 3pt shots when he’s WIDE open. Everything else about their shooting, specifically the things that tell you who is better per every time they throw the ball at the hoop (TS% and EFG%) are significantly in Dudley’s favor.

    .

    Then we try and take into account the intangibles, like intelligence/experience. I mean, the argument for Dudley this season makes perfect sense. THere is no reason for this to have been going on for what, 3 months?

    . He just wants so bad for his opinion to be right. He’s not actually arguing one specific point, other than Shumper > Dudley, no matter what.

  • danpowers

    dude, i wrote that dudleys shooting is slightly better than shumperts in the stretch over the last 27 games. check that if you dont believe me (took me eternities tho till i handled nba.com’s “nice” filters lol)

    since then dudley is not significantly better at shooting (efg% ts%per included). thats why id give shumpert the edge during that time and this is the span i am talking about in here.

    yes that guy only takes WIDE open threes. shows also that he knows his role and doesnt pull immature sh*t. how many sophomores who didnt even finish a full season b4 do you know who play like that?some guys are just born clutch and shumpert seems to be that kind of player. i cant say that about dudley tho as he wasnt the player he is today when he had his last playoff run in 09/10.

    when its about ranking knicks players: dont discuss with me, just ask ;)

    and pm your friends if you wanna gossip about what i said if you dont want an answer.

  • danpowers

    okidoki. taken off at your responsibility lol

  • davidR

    dope! reddit AMA’s are great. thanks for the share

  • davidR

    dude seems pretty intelligent for his age. never heard of him before, but looks like he’ll do a good job playing ender

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    20 GAMES DOESN’T PROVE ANYTHING. NOTHING.

    .

    .

    “yes that guy only takes WIDE open threes. shows also that he knows his role and doesnt pull immature sh*t. how many sophomores who didnt even finish a full season b4 do you know who play like that?”

    What? Who cares? Nobody is talking sh*t about Shumpert. ANd NOBODY cares if you disagree.
    .

    “and pm your friends if you wanna gossip about what i said if you dont want an answer”

    . How about go f*ck yourself? Telling me what to do isn’t going to do anything at all. And it’s not gossipping if it’s just me repeating myself in a place where you can see what i said. if i “pm’d” someone about you, THAT would be gossip.

    I guess this just hasn’t gone through your head yet, i don’t respect your opinion on anything outside of the Knicks. You have proven to me (disagreeing doesn’t matter) that you don’t know enough about non-knicks related player’s to have a comparative argument.

    .

    You can disagree. I respect that.

    .

    But your opinion is not going to change mine. And I am not going to respect you for repeatedly trying.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    quadruple zeros FTW.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    yeah, i’m more excited after that AMA then i was after the trailer honestly

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    no doubt man

  • danpowers

    well its not that he didnt show his potential a whole season the year b4 n backed it up and even took it further by playing more efficient when healthy again, hm? 27 games alone wont show anything but the whole pictures show that this stretch are more than a single glimpse.

    telling you what to do? you mean like that order-tone “i told you to stop.”? seriously? up yours ;)

    anyway, that alltogether looks very intelligent and classy to me lol

    “ANd NOBODY cares if you disagree. ”
    well, yeah i guess thats why you keep on posting with me, coz you dont care. we both do man, face the truth!

    have fun with the heat game tho

  • Caboose

    Mario Chalmers can…

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    /dead

  • Caboose

    Sigh, I’ll settle it.
    1. Jared Dudley had a better 2012-2013 regular season than Iman Shumpert.
    2. Iman Shumpert has obviously been better in the Playoffs and “recently” simply because Dudley is not in the Playoffs.
    3. Iman Shumpert will most likely have a better career than Jared Dudley when all is said and done.
    4. Iman Shumpert will most likely be markedly better than Jared Dudley within a couple of years.
    5. Regardless of talent, Jared Dudley’s performance has been better than Iman Shumpert this past year. Even if Playoffs are factored in, Jared Dudley’s performance has been better than Iman Shumpert over a long span.
    6. Iman Shumpert’s inconsistency has led to short stretches where he is substantially better than Dudley and substantially worse than Dudley. Neither of these stretches can be taken without looking at the whole.
    7. The actual talent level of each is a toss-up right nowes

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Fair

  • Caboose

    Let’s see what Knick van Dyke thinks of it…

  • http://twitter.com/AjpDos Allen Powell

    I have not. Thx for the heads up

  • danpowers

    i wont turn in my bed in anger over that.

  • danpowers

    you guys make a sweet couple in case you didnt notice ;) thanx to jason collins thats cool now

  • Caboose

    Classy.

  • Caboose

    Never liked that stat.

  • http://twitter.com/MarciaRWhitney Marcia R. Whitney

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  • spit hot fiyah

    that’s cold

  • Dagger

    It needs to be contextualized, and only then can it be useful. Like all stats.

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