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Friday, June 7th, 2013 at 11:00 am  |  116 responses

Dennis Rodman Says LeBron James Would Have Been ‘Average’ in the 80s and 90s


Hall of Famer and all-around crazy person Dennis Rodman was asked to compare LeBron James to Michael Jordan. The Worm says there’s no comparison between his old teammate MJ and LBJ; Rodman then added that James would merely be “average” had he played back in his day. Per the Dan Patrick Show: “Rodman had very interesting comments on LeBron James: ‘If Lebron was playing in the late 80′s or early 90′s, he’d be just an average player.’ Rodman compared LeBron to Michael Jordan: ‘What [Jordan] did [shows] more charisma, he’s more articulate and stuff like that. LeBron is more like … there’s no flash to his game. He’s a great player, don’t get me wrong. He’s a helluva player. I’ll give him that but Scottie and Michael are one of the best one-two punches I’ve ever seen, dude.’ Rodman commented on how he’d match up with LeBron. ‘If I was 28 years old guarding Lebron,’ Rodman said, ‘seriously dude. Are you kidding me? If he scored on me, I would be like OK, thanks. Guess what, though. Sooner or later … somebody’s gotta win, somebody’s gotta lose and most of the time I don’t lose.’ Rodman compared his Bulls to the current Heat. ‘It wouldn’t be no contest,’ Rodman said. ‘The Heat has better talent than we had, but we had smarter players. … I would take Bosh out of his damn game, easy. That’s not even a problem. How would Dwyane Wade match-up with Scottie Pippen? Really? Scottie Pippen would guard Lebron easy.’”

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  • ratguts

    this from the guy who thinks kim jong-un is a pretty cool dude.

  • Dfrance

    Average huh? Just like Bird would be just another player if he was Black right Dennis?. smh

  • The Mauve Avenger

    I’m in no way a Lebron hater, but Scottie would mark Lebron better than anyone today ,Bosh would be a huge liability as long as Rodman was on the floor, and Jordan would be in Wade’s head constantly.

  • pposse

    can’t take into account what Rodman said nearly 10 years ago and use it against him; he has matured since then smh

  • Zabbah

    True say. Except for the Lebron comment. They rest of the team would be on lock down.

  • BugEyes

    I think he is right the heat don’t play well against physical teams ie bulls, pavers and Celtics and back than that’s all you got night in night out

  • Max

    Hell no DRod.

  • pposse

    damn Rodman is speaking some truths here..He was talking to Dan Patrick and told him that the most of the teams in the 80s and 90s would just murder these teams nowadays pointing out specifically how much taller and lankier the players were back then. This is true, height and length are the two biggest assets any basketball player has. We as people nowadays are more mesmorized by the compact athlete though. We would rather see D Wade fly in for a nasty dunk and fall down instead of watching the smart play. Tim Duncan is boring because of his fundamental prowess.

    A prototypical basketball player is like what KG was coming in to the league, but for some reason those guys aren’t getting drafted, discovered etc.

  • Dfrance

    Clearly. My mistake.

  • Solito

    Cocaine is a helluva drug…!

  • Thrunker42

    Is he mentally ill?!

  • bike

    Asking any player from another earlier era about any player from the current era is really a waste of time. They will always adopt the ‘back in my day it was tougher’ argument.

    It’s kinda like a dad telling his kid how soft they have it now compared to his day where he had to walk 10 miles to school in blinding snow, etc.

  • Junkie

    Bosh is a liability already against the Pacers and Spurs haha

  • rkirby

    Lebron came into the league with no jumper or post game straight out of high school. It would have taken him a while to find a niche in that league, similar to Kobe and even KG. The Bulls of the late 90′s would scrape the Heat. Rodman vs Bosh. Jordan vs. Wade. Scottie vs. Lebron.

  • fruizm

    People who say that usually haven’t even tried weed!

  • MRwindycity

    Which doesn’t mean it’s not true, right? For example, before the Internet, think about people having to write their reports/projects. Hauling around encyclopedias or going to the library to actually take books off the shelf. Wouldn’t that make it easier for kids today as opposed to back then?

  • roger rogers

    i wish there was a team named the pavers

  • robb

    average??? lol

  • bike

    Sure, but what has changed about the game today compared to the 80′s and 90′s that make it easier for today’s players? Obviously, abandoning the hand checking gives today’s offensive players a boost but then again, players overall are probably better athletes now then 20 years ago.

    Just about any player will be inherently biased to their respective era. Competitive human nature.

  • bike

    The players were taller and lankier back then? And do you really believe that a player of KG’s ability wouldn’t get drafted/discovered now?

  • Sajjatam Tp Kulsomboon

    Does anyone have the contact number of whoever is supplying whatever Rodman is smokin’? That stuff must be real good.

    I’ll give him Heat-Bulls comparison. But come on. LeBron James won’t be average in any generation.

  • The Mighty FV

    Do you live your life basing opinions of people on what other people think?

  • Mars

    Rodman was pretty average since, every player in the league can rebound, and dive for loose balls.

  • i_ball

    Andrea Bargniani would disagree with you. And Rodman rebounded at an unbelievable level. he is HOFer for a reason

  • Redd

    He’s dead right tho even if he’s loco most would agree.

  • MUBWAR

    lebron would be average in the 80′ 90′…if he is dead right on that, you shouldn’t be able to comment about basketball.

  • Dfrance

    Most would agree? Have you read the consensus on this very thread?

  • Dfrance

    I feel like he was being sarcastic with his posts, but I can’t tell. lol

  • Redd

    If those players were introduced then, they’d be less athletic..so I don’t see your point.

    We’re hypothetically pointing these players in the old era. If you want to put the old players in this era, they’d still be more athletic because of advancements in training.

  • MUBWAR

    Players in the past were more physical because they had to make up for the fact that only a few players could shoot the basketball. Today even a scrub can rain it from deep if they’re not defended properly

  • Zabbah

    The hand checking is a pretty serious thing. According to the people who used to guard Jordan (such as Joe Dumars) hand checking was the only thing stopping Jordan from averaging 50 a night during his primeyears

  • Dfrance

    LeBron was also above average coming straight out of HS. Average players don’t give you 20, 5 and 5. You can question whether he would be as dominant, but to say he would be average is crazy.

  • Da-Meat-Hook

    This is just stupid. It’s not like average to above average players like Richard Dumas, Byron Russell, an over-the-hill Detlef Schrempf, an underachieving Derek Mckey, a volatile John Starks never had exceptional games against the bulls in their prime.

    Rodman, Pippen, and Jordan were all excellent defenders, but they could be scored on.
    I grew up watching the bulls throughout the 80′s and 90′s. I witnessed Barkley, Kemp, Malone, Reggie, Mitch Richmond, and countless other all-stars have there way with the bulls’ defenders…and let’s not even mention what an in-prime Penny did to Pippen.

    Those Bulls were my favorite team of ALL TIME, but people on this thread are acting like that squad were holding teams to 20ppg or something.

    DMH

  • kevin

    Lets just say for the arguements sake that the stars cancel eachother out…jordan scottie rodman and bron wade and bosh cancel out. The bulls role players were wayyyy better than the heats. Tony k, harper, longley, steve kerr…the bulls would dominate the current heat team.

  • JB

    More of a physical game back then. Could the players of today handle the hand-checking and bad boy style of yesteryear? We will never know, but we do know that Jordan was great regardless of how he got hacked.

  • rkirby

    Saying a 260lb point forward with all world athleticism, the guard skills, and court vision is going to be average is a stretch lol

  • MUBWAR

    looooooooooooool come on i_ball i was having a great day until you reminded we still had andrea in toronto

  • pposse

    I was in my response to you yes!

    But on a serious, in regards to what Rodman said, I gotta agree with him to an extent. I’m not saying Lebron would be “average” in the late 80s early 90s, but to Rodman’s point to how Jordan was “charismatic” and how all leaders back then were to now where Lebron is just “blah” but has a plethora of talent it should make you wonder. If the media wasn’t stroking Lebron from day one would he be the player he is now? I mean the guy had so much positive reinforcement growing up, everyone wants to talk about how he got dogged from losing lol in Clevaland; well imagine if no one cared about you and you were just another ball player. Does he have the stones to “prove” himself? The guy was annointed the King before he was 18. I’m not trying to take away from him and his game, but a lot of what Rodman seemed to be talking about was the mental approach to the game and being soft mentally. If there is any knock on Lebron right now, in the past, and going into the future this is it. He didn’t say it in those exact words but thats how i took his comments. He definately said that about Bosh tho.

  • i_ball

    Sorry, dude

  • The Seed

    Cosign, I have stated Lebron overpower people more than using skill. Last night, Lebron had a lot of times he could have taken pull up jumpers, but was only looking for lanes to be LeLayup. If Spurs just keep Bron from being a Layup King, Spurs might sweep. I picked in 5. Lebron is not that hard to guard, like Spurs showed last night. Lebron cannot shoot, anybody acting like he can, are dead wrong.

  • Junior Taylor

    LeBron shooting 40% from 3 during the RS and 37% during the Playoffs “can’t shoot” but the Kobe that shot 32% from 3 during the RS, is a great shooter?

  • The Seed

    Really you think Lebron is a great skill shooter, tell me WHY?

  • speedy

    If you talk about basketball skills you are right. But this maniac had a level of dedication,intensity, heart and mental toughness, when he stepped on the court, that clearly separated his defense and rebounding from nearly everybody.

  • Da-Meat-Hook

    MJ didn’t refine his perimeter shooting until his late 20′s. Clyde’s J was broken. Dominique was a streaky shooter from anything beyond 15 feet. Magic’s jumper was a set shot that started from waste level. Early on in their careers, these players relied on their size, strength, and athletic ability to score.

    Why are people on this thread acting like every sg/sf from the 80′s/90′s entered the league with Bernard King’s jumper?!?

  • Sancheezie

    think you may be wrong on this worm

  • Redd

    Lol, and what makes you believe he’d be great? He can be guarded. It’s been done so just stop.

  • Redd

    Yea, consensus is with me genius.

  • Redd

    Because doing weed is ‘cool’?

  • Brandon

    people actually played defense in the 80′s and 90′s so ya it would have been different

  • mike

    hanging with kim jong il too much….

  • mike

    kim jong un*

  • Lloyd

    Besides the “Lebron would’ve been average” crap, the rest of the stuff isn’t that crazy, especially Rodman being able to take Bosh out. Also, DWade is struggling now. Imagine if he was being guarded by Jordan? Or Pippen? Lebron alone wouldn’t be enough to beat that Bulls team.

  • Dfrance

    Your up to down vote ratio says different.

  • kobesucks

    lol kobrick shoots 40% in todays nba playoffs

    wonder what he’d shoot in the 80s and 90s dennis

    what a scumbag…lebron is the f****** king get a load of it haters

  • Lloyd

    That doesn’t change the fact that he can’t hit a jumper with consistency right now, and the possibility that if the Spurs double him and take away the drive, they’re winning this series. No ifs or maybes of Lebron getting a J in the future, that’s irrelevant. He probably will but right now he doesn’t have one and it’s a huge liability.

  • 80

    Clyde once said he never received the ball facing the basket… players of today have it easy. Imagine how it would be receiving the ball, while defending player held his hand on a hip disbalancing you

  • Da-Meat-Hook

    You don’t think Lebron has a consistent jumper?
    That’s where we disagree. His may not be at Dirk or Melo’s level, but his fg% including his 40% from 3 suggest he has a solid jumper to say the least.

  • ZOGS

    “DOING”

    SMH LOL

  • JPlattim1933

    LeBron shooting 40% from 3 during
    the RS and 37% during the Playoffs “can’t shoot” but the Kobe that shot
    32% from 3 during the RS, is a great shooter?­ ­http://mybestfriendmakes65dollarsper&#46qr&#46net/kkEj

  • lil hill

    flying to the basket like D- Wade is smart basketball getting to the rim as much as you can is smart a young Michael Jordan wait to the basket all the time and hand checking in all of that would be to a guy like D Wade advantage nowadays he already likes to grab you and pull you just like LeBron does and if Ron artests was allowed to use his strength and people say Lebron pushes off a lot imagine if he played the 80′s and he was pretty much allowed to push off so to all of you caught up in the hype about what some of the past players say a lot of them live in the past this is the present appreciate It

  • Noompsi

    That is TRUE! Well Said Rodman. Miami Heat bball is sh*t

  • jawaid

    Redd votes up his own comments frequently so don’t hold to much stock in his up votes.

  • z

    You could counter that very same argument by saying players of yester year wouldn’t know what the hell to do with a zone defense in the NBA today.

    In addition to that, Jordan and Rodman NEVER played in a league like to today where the insane athlete is pretty much the norm. If you are old enough to remember Harold Minor, you know that the only real reason this kid was nicknamed baby Jordan was because of his athleticism. If a near scrub like him could get that nickname back then, you know they weren’t used to seeing the athletes we see today.

    According to Jordan himself, averaging 38 points was one of the most exhausting things he’s ever had to do in his life, so I highly doubt he could average 45 let alone 50 based on his own statements. Let’s not try to turn a mortal man into some sort of god. Jordan was human, had a lot of bad games just like any other great. Stop the myth making. He was great enough that he doesn’t need the silly hype.

  • z

    Very true. In terms of 3 pt shots, there were only a handful that could really impact the game from deep, and up until the early 90′s Jordan was definitely not one of those guys.

  • Lloyd

    I’m not saying that he can’t hit jumpers, but his jumper is opened up by his driving game. If you take that away and make him strictly a jump shooter, don’t see him shooting a high percentage.

  • Noompsi

    Worst comment ever

  • z

    How would one’s physical gifts retard exactly? Athleticism isn’t a skill. It’s a natural ability. Strength and conditioning can be improved upon with training, but you are either athletic or you aren’t. You can always tell the guys who really play sports from the guys who don’t with the kind of statement you just made.

    Tracy Mcgrady, Josh Smith, Gerald Green, Russel Westbrook, are all examples of guys who have tremendous athletic talent. They were all athletic before the NBA, before all the advanced training they had access to in the league. In fact, guys like T-Mac’s biggest knock on them was the fact that they DIDN’T train like they should have to maximize their talent. He got by on athleticism for a long time before he started working hard. But I forgot, you haven’t been watching the NBA for that long so why should I even have this conversation with you?

  • MUBWAR

    what makes you believe he`d be great….what a moronic question. he came out of high school and dropped 20 5.5 and 6 assists per game on a league full of stars. only MJ Tyreke & the big O have done it. career averages of 27.6 7.3 & 7.

  • pposse

    Lebron push off just as much as the next guy; I’m sorry i watched him hoop since he started in the NBA but i still don’t see him get dirty the way Kobe be getting. I wonder about how bad he wants the W sometimes. Like i said you say he push off, but really what will Lebron do when someone push him? He got shoved to the ground by Nazr and and embellished the push instead of gettin up and standing his ground. What makes you think he’ll take advantage of the rules in the 80s? He never really defended himself in a confrontation, a lot of those guys in the 80;s and 90s were willing to throw down if need be, what makes you think Lebron would be that man. Who is to say that he wouldn’t be a Derrick Coleman? Rodman is clearly talking about lebrons psyche; i mean he can’t be serious if he’s saying that Lebron would be ‘Average’ with Lebron’s talent alone. I question the mans “will to win”

  • Demarcus

    Puh leeeaaaaaaazzzzzzzzzzze

  • pposse

    basketball just like all sports is a copy cat game; if a guy like Clyde Drexler grew up watching MJ instead of playing with him the athleticism of his would have been better in my guesstimation. Its impossible to really know or compare eras. The only thing we can compare is the mental approach to the game; this is the part of the game where there are clear differences. I view it as shortcomings in the modern day athlete, some view it differently.

  • Da-Meat-Hook

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

    You’re that type of commenter that is quick to criticise but offers NOTHING to suggest you have an ounce of basketball knowledge. Keep doing you, I guess.

  • Da-Meat-Hook

    You wrote “he can’t hit a jumper with consistency”.
    I simply said he can and backed it up with facts.

    “If you take that away”…no team can completely take away his driving game. All teams can do is clog the lanes and hope his teammates miss open jumpers.

    Miami has struggled offensively because aside from Lebron and Birdman, I can’t think of another player on that entire roster who has strung together two consecutive games of solid offensive efficiency.

  • roscoe

    i think the premise rodman is making is that Bron bron is protected & complains too much…

    in the 80s and 90s that would not work…

    superstars took a beating which bron Bron does not today.

    i have no real opinion… don’t care… i just think a lot of you misinterpreted his premise.

  • Redd

    You can’t vote yourself up..lol.

    Dumba**.

  • Redd

    And in the finals with the Spurs he scored as much as Drew Gooden in Game 1..

    He’s able to do that because there’s no other players that can defend him, he would easily be defended back then.

  • Redd

    The up to down ratio under us..? LOL All those comments are up votes & agree with me..idiot.

  • Solito

    Dude! Its a Dave Chappelle quote… you go and interpret what ever you’d like into it.

  • EJ

    Why would NBA players all of a sudden be way worse than they were in the past?
    It’s fair to say they played tougher defense back in the 80s and 90s, but the tempo of the game was faster, teams shot the ball more and shot more free throws. If you take that into consideration, Lebron most likely would’ve been a 25ppg scorer easily.

  • Lloyd

    Yea I said he can’t hit a jumper consistently, not that he can’t hit a jumper. Fact is, he hasn’t had to hit the jumper repeatedly to show that he’s consistent. He throws in a jumper once in awhile but his game is predominently around the basket. He’s consistenly a in-close finisher, which opens up the jumper for him (like I said). The Spurs are trying to reverse his game (outside-in) forcing him to become strictly a jump shooter or strictly a passer by stopping the drive and doubling him whenever he attempts to.

    The Spurs are making him a passer. They’re playing the odds and winning right now. Fact is, if the other guys can’t hit, we’ll see Lebron either come out as a jump shooter or try to force the issue at the basket. Either way, don’t see it working out for the Cavs er…I mean Heat.

  • reddisadumbblonde

    Redd, stop. If you think people will somehow believe that you don’t vote up your own comments simply because you are pretending to be ignorant of the ability, it won’t work. We don’t believe you, you need more people!

  • z

    Like I said, guys who don’t really play competitive sports believe that you can teach athleticism. You’re another one, obviously. You can’t teach talent and you can’t teach athleticism. You can teach skill, conditioning, and endurance. So yes, I can make a definitive statement on this issue in regards to athleticism. Dominique Wilkins didn’t grow up watching Jordan either. He was an athletic freak who’d probably be an average ball player today because too many guys now mirror what only Jordan could back then in terms of athletic ability.

    Tell you little theory to NBA scouts who draft raw, athletic prospects every year. I highly doubt they’d agree with you and Redd.

  • Dagger

    I can’t tell if you’re trolling, so I’ll take the bait.

    Honestly, I’m curious as to how someone would reach your opinion. Why would you possibly believe that the guy who’s far and away the best player in today’s game would be average in the 80s?

    I mean, we’re talking about a guy who’s probably around 6’9″, 265, maybe 270 pounds. He has probably the highest “basketball IQ” (I hate that term) in the league. He might be the most dangerous scorer in transition in NBA history. He can literally score efficiently from anywhere on the floor, and he’s got a very effective post up game. This is a guy who just shot 56% from the field for a season! He can also play 4, maybe 5 positions on both offense and defense. His individual defense routinely bottles up players – from Pau Gasol to Derrick Rose – and his help defense might be even better. He’s a good rebounder and possibly the best non-PG passer in NBA history. His clutch statistics routinely lead the NBA, which is why he was team USA’s closer last summer. I mean, there’s a reason that Magic, Bird, and a host of other NBA greats label Lebron as one of the top players in NBA history. It’s not because he would have been average in the 80s or 90s, I can tell you that much.

    But there are two other aspects to this equation: your perception of NBA history and your opinion about Rodman’s credibility. Do I really have to point out that Rodman is probably the least trustworthy former star from which to get your basketball analysis? I mean, never mind that whole North Korea garbage, we’re talking about a guy who’s insulted the ability of everyone from Larry Bird to Shaq. A guy who’s said that the league was keeping him from being like Jordan. You want to get your basketball wisdom from that dude?

    Finally, let’s get beyond mythology and acknowledge some basic truths about the NBA. Defenses are more sophisticated now than they were in the 80s. Is hand-checking allowed? No, and that hurts some aspects of individual defense against speedy players. Are big men as defensively talented as they were in the 90s? On the balance, no. On the other hand, advanced statistical analysis has greatly improved defenses, and zone defenses have revolutionized the game. To say something like “people played defense in the 80s and 90s” – implying they don’t now, as some people have said here – is just ignorant. Lebron is accumulating his stats while offenses play at a much slower pace than they did in the 80s, against defenses that are more sophisticated than they used to be.

    So, long story short: Lebron would have been one of the best players of any era. And if you’re a basketball fan, that should be obvious.

  • ace

    Name a single time where Lebron allowed himself to get bullied. You say he never stands up for himself like he’s some sort of punk. He’s the best basketball player in the league. Only blockheads sacrifice the team’s win in order to play fake tough guy. That’s why the Bulls aren’t winning anything until Lebron and Kevin Durant fall off. The Bulls are too dumb to realize all of the stupid tough guy acts will only get them ejected.

  • Da-Meat-Hook

    That’s the thing. What the Spurs are doing isn’t significantly different from what most teams try to do, which is to attempt to prevent Lebron from getting to the rim.

    This is why the Heat brought in players like Bibby, Mike Miller, and Jones years back, and then later brought in Battier, Ray Ray, and Rashard Lewis. They were aquired to knock down open jumpers to prevent teams from stacking the key. The difference is that Battier can’t buy a bucket, Ray Ray has played well in about 3 of the 17 playoff games thus far, for some reason Bosh is floating to 2 feet beyond the 3 point line, Haslem has 3 bad games for every good game, Wade is showing up for what seems like the first time in almost 2 months.

    Again, aside from Birdman, how many Heat players can you name that have had an even above average playoff run thus far? This is the Heat’s problem, not Lebron’s jumper.

  • pposse

    that was worded a little wrong, but what I’m trying to say is that if an athlete at a young age was able to see MJ play throughout the span of his life, and followed and idolized that ball player, they would be hone in on their athletic ability at an earlier age.

    So am i supposed to believe that out of no where with no real evolution that can possibly have been taken place in a 10-20 year span that all of a sudden more athletes just were born?! That is dumb and ignorant. You can teach ‘athleticism’ to a level at young ages and help guide or show yourself new windows. The guys nowadays got to the level they are at because of their predecessors, i’ll go tell that to any scout, any player to their face, to your momma it doesnt matter they would all agree with me. And if they don’t they would just be a Z.

  • pposse

    The Celtics, the Mavericks both shut him down in the playoffs from a mental stand point. Lebron ‘bullies’ himself lol; why else did this guy just suck big balls against the Mavericks in the finals. He was a grown ass man at that stage in his bball career, there is zero excuse for the goose egg of a performance he showed the world. All of that allows for Rodman and anyone else to say he’s mentally weak or has shown it at times. I’m not saying he definately would be average dont get it twisted, there is just a lot of unknown about him and his psyche.

  • Melvin flynt

    I LOVED UR GAME D-ROD, BUT YOU’VE GONE TOO FAR WITH LBJ SAYING HE’D BE AVG IN 80S AND 90S, I THINK LBJ WOULD DESTROY THAT ERA TOO IF NOT MORE!!

  • Melvin flynt

    LBJ WOULD WHOOP YO A** DENNIS !

  • z

    No genius. You are supposed to believe reality, which is that more kids with who are athletically inclined had begun to take up the sport of basketball. Saying that an athletic kid, who saw someone with their gifts, decided to take up the sport is NOT the same as what you are implying, which is that they magically began to develop natural gifts as a result of watching a guy on tv. What you are saying is asinine. I played overseas for eight years up until two years ago. I coach at a prep school with a damn good team. Sorry, but I don’t consider your opinion on this matter to be of equal value to that of my own. Nope.

  • Dagger

    “He can’t hit a jumper consistently…”

    Uh, have a look at this shot chart and educate yourself:

    http://vorped.com/bball/index.php/player/shotchart/837-LeBron-James/season/2012-2013-REG

  • ace

    So basically, you don’t have an example. Got it. You start off ranting about how he’s intimidated and bullied by Nazr’s wack @ss push that made only Nazr look like a fool, and now you’re his psychiatrist because he’s had some bad games? Just quit. Him being a grown man has nothing to do with why he shouldn’t have had a bad series, and since i doubt you even played on you junior high squad stick to what you know. This website is the closes to the NBA you’ve ever been. That grown ass man is the reason Rose will never get a ring.

  • Rapsfan

    Ridiculous. LeBron would be a dominant player in any era and that’s a FACT. His freak athleticism above all is what makes him such a force, and it would only give him more of an advantage in the 80′s/90′s. Rodman should stop drawing attention to himself with s**t like this and go back to coaching strippers.

  • Da-Meat-Hook

    EXCELLENT post, Dagger!

  • Lloyd

    The Spurs are doubling on the drive. Most teams were scared to do that because they thought they’d give up the open 3. Pop saw that the role players are struggling in the playoffs so he’s playing the odds. Double Lebron so he can’t get going inside and make the struggling role players beat you. If they hit a shot, great, but he’s going to stick to doubling Lebron and not be intimidated by that, unless of course, the Heavens open and they start raining down 3s.

    I understand that Heat’s struggles, but even if the whole team is struggling equally, the onus for offence falls on your the key to your offensive game and your superstar, which is Lebron. (see KD and the Thunder post-Westbrook). If the role players struggle, Lebron is the one that needs to make points happen (i.e. the “feels like I’m playing of the Cavs” game). The drive is being taken away, so it’s going to have to be on jumpers and free throws.

  • Mike Gilbert

    are you kidding me? Your hard on for the 90′s Bulls might be a little too hard…

  • Jabroni

    yea with a cement home court and orange reflective jerseys.

  • Lloyd

    Using vorped to educate myself is like using a colouring book to express my artistic side. It’s inaccurate as hell. For one, it’s missing about 200 shots that Lebron took. Kind of loses it’s credibility right there. But hey I’ll humour you.

    So according to your shot chart, Lebron hits on only 37% of the mid range jumpers he takes (you calculate that by averaging the percentages that they offer you for each zone…NBA.com had him a little higher but I’ll use your source since you chose it). In what world is that consistent? Anything below 40% is not a consistent jump shot, especially one that you’d rely on to win you a championship. I’d bet on his jumper all day if I were Pop.

  • Irishway’s

    Easy… I know your just trying to take a couple of rib shots at Redd, I don’t blame U, but don’t knock the 90′s Bulls for being the greatest team assembled.

  • Mike Gilbert

    not trying to at all, they were arguably the best dynasty in sports history…but Redd…

  • Sean Superstar Juan

    Using the word “cool” in quotation marks is not cool.

  • Da-Meat-Hook

    If you think doubling Lebron on his drives is a new concept, rewatch the Dallas vs Miami finals. Actually, watch the Spurs vs Cavs finals. Actually, watch the St. Vincent St. Marys vs Brookhaven game…this ain’t new.

    “If the role players struggle, Lebron is the one that needs to make points happen”
    The Heat have won their last 7 playoffs series despite injuries to Wade and Bosh and sporadic play by hos entire supporting cast…I’m not saying the Heat will definitely win this series, but you’re talking like Lebron hasn’t bailed out his team time and again. You’re talking like he hasn’t been shooting consistently…that’s incorrect.

  • Dfrance

    … is an idiot.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Defense was worse in the 80s and 90s. Much worse.

  • Redd

    ..so it’s bad to be a fan of the best tam ever?

  • Lloyd

    It’s different here. Like you said, the Heat are specifically structurally put together to allow Lebron room to maneuver in the paint by spreading the floor with perimeter shooters. Doubling Lebron on the drive is way more riskier now since there’s always that dilemma of either allow Lebron 2 on single coverage or a role player a pretty consistent look at a 3 by doubling him. Pop is taking that gamble, and even if he takes a hit, will continue to take that bet. That’s the main difference.

    He has. You took one of my points out of context. I meant, since Lebron is getting his drive taken away, and since the role players aren’t stepping up, he’s going to have to make points happen (mostly) off his jumper and foul shots…something he hasn’t had to do yet to say that he can consistently. Dude was 38% from mid-range this season. It’s not bad, but that’s not consistent enough to be able to rely on heavily to win a championship, especially when your opponent is the Spurs: a team that has many different offensive looks, different line ups, different defensive strategies, championship experience, and the best coach in the League. I can’t see Lebron doing it alone, especially just off his jumper.

  • Irishway’s

    No its bad to agree with anything Rodman says or does….

  • pposse

    i never implied they magically developed natural gifts as a result of watching someone else play ball; i implied more kids look at their predecessors and copied their game off of them; in fact iv’e said that.

    So my opinion is not of equal value of a has-been okay Z we’re thru here then, whatever you say.

  • pposse

    actually there has been a lot of rumors that Lebron did indeed see a sports psychologist after the finals loss to Dallas, look it up. Would he ever admit that? no. Would a stan like you even think it to be possible? probably not.

  • Z

    For once in his life Dennis Rodman said something right. Lebron wouldn’t necessarily be average, but he wouldn’t be a top 5 player if he played in the 80′s or 90′s. First, for those who think this generation of players are better than those in the 80′s or 90′s just stop and get off this thread because you don’t even deserve to argue about this subject. The players from the 80′s and 90′s were not only physically tougher but they were WAY WAY WAY more fundamentally sound than the AAU style players of today’s generation. And when I say tough I mean TOUGH. Remember that clothes line by McHale on Rambis in the ’84 Finals… yeah that was a two shot foul. No technical. No flagrant. NOTHING. While in today’s game he would’ve been ejected and probably put on trial for attempted murder. Not to mention things like hand checking were still allowed which leveled the playing field for the defense.

    I mean just take a look at what Jordan was put through all those years against the Pistons. I really don’t think Lebron would find that much success when he’s put on his back every time he drives. And to those who are claiming defense has been improved by looking at the decline in shooting percentage or the implementation of zone defenses just shut up. You know nothing. The zone defense has literally done nothing for NBA teams especially since they only use it a couple possessions per game at most. And shooting has declined because we are in the midst of the AAU generation of basketball where players are more adept at slashing and driving than shooting jumpers.

    And in case you guys didn’t know among players in his first 10 years Jordan was first in player efficiency. You know what Lebron is among players in his first 10 years? 5TH. THAT’S RIGHT FIFTH. Jordan is and always will be the GOAT.

  • Schooly D

    Career Player Efficiency Rating: Jordan 1, James 2 (note: Wade 7th)

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career.htmlCareer Player

  • DJR84

    Stats don’t tell you everything though…a lot of LeBron’s 3′s this year have been set and open, not like other years where he has just launched them whenever.

  • Mike Gilbert

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H18Kc2xykPg

    scottie wasn’t infallible.

  • Ugh

    I don’t know how I missed this, but nbk, you’re sniffing glue if you’re not trolling.

    First, hand checking was legal. The prevalence of wing scorers in the NBA today comes from their ability to move to the basket, on cuts or with the ball, unimpeded.

    Second, only man-to-man defence was legal. Zone allows penetrators to excel, but most importantly, reduces the need for great man-to-man defenders. There just aren’t any 1-on-1 wing defenders of the calibre there was in the 90s because in zone you don’t need to be.

    Third, zone defence allows you to rest on defence on the wing, meaning wing players have more energy on the defensive end.

    Fourth, I won’t even bother. Watch games other than Celtics-Lakers games, where the big stars were terrible defenders (Magic and Bird) and watch something really boring like a Knicks-Bucks game fro 92, or Pistons-Blazers from 90. Great, consistent, man-to-man wing defence designed to stop players like Drexler (maybe the closest match to LeBron in the 90s) from racking up triple doubles every game.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Use your brain for 5 minutes.

    .

    “hand checking was legal” — OH NO! that was everything! yeah, that was a big deal, but it was not nearly as important as…..

    .

    “only man to man defense was legal” – BINGO. the illegal defense rule was ridiculous. It turned the NBA into a one on one league, where only the best individual defenders had a chance of standing out. “team defense” was a myth in the 90s. There was man to man defense, and rim protection. Other than that? teams couldn’t force offenses to do what they wanted, because all an offense had to do was load up one side of the court, and let their best player have the other. illegal defense made guarding guys like Michael Jordan unguardable.

    .

    In fact, the league needed to find ways to speed game up, becuase teams were slowing the game down, forcing isolations, and scoring at will. So you know what they did?

    .

    in 1998, they extended the 3pt line back to 23 feet. And in 99-00 the illegal defense rule was scrapped. In an attempt to spread the court. Which instead of opening the game up, highlighted the lack of offensive firepower throughout the league. And for the next 6 years the league experienced all-time lows in shooting %.

    .
    NOw i have a meeting and have to go. If you want more of a history lesson, I can continue this later.

  • jazzyjeffmilloer

    How can todays players be better than the players in the Jordan and magic era? after the 96 Olympics, it took us how many years to win a gold medal, I mean our pros lost 3 games in the Olympics, (Three) and one was to Greece, who had no NBA players on their team. You can argue, debate and use all the so call stats that you want, but team on the planet could give the Jordan era teams a game. Now deal with that.

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