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Wednesday, August 14th, 2013 at 1:20 pm  |  186 responses

Kobe Bryant Motivated By Low Expectations for the Lakers


Like most people, the writers over at ESPN expect the Los Angeles Lakers to struggle next season (they predicted a 12th place finish for the LakeShow in the Western Conference.) Kobe Bryant got wind of this, and subtly let it be known that he’s aware of (and likely fueled by) the extremely low expectations facing his team next season. Per the LA Daily News: “Bryant’s extremely self motivated, but he’s always looking for an extra edge. That’s why on the night he suffered a season-ending torn left Achilles tendon in mid April, Bryant preemptively predicted plenty of skepticism awaits on whether he can return and still play at an elite level. ‘It’s fueling me. I can feel it already,’ Bryant said at the time. ‘People saying players at this stage of their career have an Achilless [injury] and aren’t the same. I can hear it already. It’s [ticking] me off right now.’ It’s safe to say the Lakers’ 12th place prediction has the same affect on Bryant.”

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  • ChosenOne

    All I can say is… Pray for the bear!

  • spit hot fiyah

    the daily motivation article

  • LakeShow

    ESPN is positively stupid.
    12th?
    Denver at 6th or 7th or some BS…
    No…

  • LakeShow

    You’re drunk ESPN, GO HOME!

  • JibbsIsBallin

    ESPN can suck it. They’re as just as good CNN and all other major media networks with their Bull S*^T commentators and self claimed experts. I’m a Heat fan, but I don’t see how the Lakers could wind up 12th. I guess that means the Jazz & the Blazers are going to ball out.

  • Caboose

    What the f*ck ISN’T Kobe motivated by?

  • Caboose

    And ESPN, really? 12th? Y’all at SLAM know I hate the Lakers but 12th is just wrong. If I had to guess RIGHT NOW:
    1. Clippers
    2. Rockets
    3. Thunder
    4. Spurs
    5. Warriors
    6. Grizzlies
    7. Wolves
    8. Pelicans
    9. Nuggets
    10. Lakers
    11. Kings
    12. Blazers
    13. Mavericks
    14. Jazz
    15. Suns

  • spit hot fiyah

    is not THAT far fetched, the blazers and mavs could finish ahead of them

  • shockexchange

    Passing the ball and getting back on defense.

  • shockexchange

    On paper LA is better than 12th. However, they’ve been the “most underachieving team in the L” for a while now. If they can’t win with Pau Gasol / Andrew Bynum at the same ____ time, Phil, Horry Jr, Odom and MWP, then the current team has to be a serious drop off.

  • Caboose

    You impress me.

  • Caboose

    I think 9.5 is where they’re likely to statistically end up. Which is my fancy way of saying that I think they’re more likely to make the Playoffs than to finish 12th.

  • shockexchange

    SE’s life has not been in vain.

  • spit hot fiyah

    well pelicans wolves and nuggs could all slide, so it’s not impossible. the lakers could also implode. personally i don’t know. i do think that the blazers and mavs can compete for the 8th seed if healthy

  • Caboose

    The Mavs’ interior defense is limited to Samuel Dalembert. Which is not a good look given their so-so perimeter defense.

  • spit hot fiyah

    and brandan wright , yikes!
    i’m not saying that they are going to make a run for the title. but IF healthty Dirk himself with some help from monta, jose, marion, blair, crowder could challenge for a playoff spot. possibly lol

    remember when roddy beaubois was untouchable? now not one team wants him

  • Conor

    Their bench is superior to the past two seasons’ iterations. Perhaps the best since ’08-’11′s. Gasol and Nash are rested, Bryant will be rested. The new players, predisposed athletically & stylistically to fit D’Antoni’s weak-ass system.

    They even brought Rambis back to coördinate his strong-side zone which, when adapted by PJ to more of a baseline funnel, became a reliable defence for three-and-a-half seasons (of contender-status quality). LA is one athletic, defensive-minded centre away from shoring up what few holes remain for that defence to support its offence to function to the team’s maximum capacity. They won’t have any issue scoring. Before, and especially with Bryant.

  • shockexchange

    (Romello Skuggs voice from Sugar Hill) “Lolly … is there a point to this?”

  • Caboose

    Everyone thought he’d come back clean from that leg injury. Nope.

  • Conor

    * “, … are talented enough to provide significant support to the three geezers.

    Blake is just passing his prime, Farmar is entering his prime, Young is entering his prime (and Bryant’s stewardship will do wonders for him), Johnson will like the pace of the offence, Kaman is perfect as a backup centre or starting alongside Gasol, & Hill has been amongst the ten greatest rebounders in the League (relative to minutes played). Something crazy like top-five in Playoff rebound rate and top ten this past season, before he tore his hip labrum (he also has had nearly a calendar year of game-rest and has recovered perfectly). Then there are the mystery talents of the two SL players signed at the beginning of the month. Very deep.

  • bike

    “Revenge is a Dish Best Served Cold”

    Kobe Motherfu*kin Bryant.

  • LakeShow

    “most underachieving team in the L for a while now”

    “can’t win with Pau Gasol / Andrew Bynum at the same ____ time, Phil, Horry Jr, Odom and MWP”

    Two championships within the last 5 seasons ….

    What are the rest of the teams in the L then?

  • shockexchange

    He’s gonna align himself with “exceptionally more talent than the rest of the L” so he can win a chip. Yeah, Horry Jr is really gonna show ESPN.

  • LakeShow

    The point is to show you have no clue what you’re talking about.

  • shockexchange

    After being “gifted” Gasol, they should’ve won at least four, in be in the running for another one this year. *Welp*

  • shockexchange

    Lake Act (cause the Lakers’s season won’t last long enough to be considered a “Show”), SE didn’t rank LA 12th. ESPN did.

  • Saleem Rainman

    the team did finish with a .500 record despite Dirk missing months and not being healthy till about the last month, month and a half though. Lets not COMPLETELY sleep on them, they’ve arguably improved this year.

  • LakeShow

    No one assisted more than Kobe Bryant from the SG position last season.

    That is with the most prolific passer of the last 10 years on his team.

    Start realizing the facts.

    By being the #1, and #2 option of offense last year he was clearly too tired (having more mileage on his body than almost anyone ever in NBA history) to perform at his usual defensive standards.

    Someone like James Harden on the other hand is who you should be going after. Never has won anything worth noting and doesn’t play great defense and passes at a lesser rate than KB did.

    But that would get you less attention. And seeing as how you’re a whore for attention… it makes sense why you go after Kobe Bryant.
    A top 10 all time player.

    Carry on with your stupidity, it’s amusing.

  • LakeShow

    You’re insanely inept at judging teams also.

  • LakeShow

    A team in their own city has more talent… Let alone the other 5+ teams that have more talent.

  • LakeShow

    Were the Grizzlies gifted Marc Gasol?

  • shockexchange

    There’s always 2014.

  • Caboose

    That’s true. I just think the Mavs are a prime example of a semi-talented team that just will NOT work well on the court.

  • shockexchange

    “But that would get you less attention. And seeing as how you’re a whore for attention… it makes sense why you go after Kobe Bryant.” < —- That's a low blow Lake and you know it. Horry Jr is the biggest winner of his era. SE has always acknowledged that.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    man…….this season is going to be nuts. as of now, i have the West shaping up like this,
    .
    1 – OKC
    2 – LAC
    3 – HOU
    4 – SAS
    5 – GS
    6 – MEM
    7 – NOP
    8 – LAL
    9 – MIN
    10 – POR
    11 – DAL
    12 – DEN
    13 – SAC
    14 – UT
    15 – PHX

  • LakeShow

    I don’t give a sh*t where you rank/rate anything. You have made it crystal clear that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about in any way.

    You think old chicks are hot even.

    You’re absolutely useless to this website except as a troll like comedian for us to laugh at.

    Carry on.

  • LakeShow

    A team can’t be lead by someone that doesn’t pass the ball and doesn’t get back on defense, so no, you don’t know any thing.

  • LakeShow

    I have GSW above the Spurs and LAL in the 7 spot with it being a complete and total dark horse for me coming in the 8th spot… maybe grabbing the 7th from LA too.

  • LakeShow

    I don’t know what that implies nor do I care. So moving on.

  • shockexchange

    It’s silly to rank L.A. anywhere until its clear how Horry Jr recovers from his injury. Rankings only matter in the preseason. That why they play the games.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    pretty much seeds 7 & 8 can be anyone of (LAL/NOP/DAL/MIN/POR/DEN) depending on injuries and chemistry with the new players.

  • Caboose

    Uhh, ok? You mean me who called the Spurs Heat Finals? I did think LA would miss the Playoffs last season, but yes, they did squeak in; is that what you’re referring to?

    Reading through your stuff below, you seem to be in a pissy mood today. Something bothering you?

  • LakeShow

    By far the most intellectual post I have seen you write.
    Thank you for just being a normal human being for a second.

  • Caboose

    I think there is exactly one constant in the West: Phoenix in last.

  • shockexchange

    And that’s exactly why prior to re-signing with L.A., Rent-A-Center wanted to ensure Horry Jr was leaving.

  • Caboose

    Woah woah SE, you’re gonna call Kobe a bigger winner than Timmy? I’ll give you that Kobe is the more talented player, but bigger winner?

  • shockexchange

    SE assumes there’s a compliment embedded somewhere in this post.

  • shockexchange

    It’s a push.

  • LakeShow

    I have spoken with no malice to anyone. Well besides shock.

    You honestly could have it right. It just looked insane to me at first lol. What’s a Pelican and why is it in the playoffs is what i’m thinking, but you might have a point haha.

  • LakeShow

    No he just can’t handle LA.

    Pau Gasol seemed to take the ball out of KB’s hands enough during their 2 back to backs, eh?

  • LakeShow

    Marc Gasol is arguably as good as Pau Gasol…

  • Caboose

    Hahaha it HURT to put Pelican there. But the moves they’ve made all just look great to me.

    Holiday, Gordon, Aminu, Anderson, Davis with Tyreke, River, Henry, and Amundson sounds great on paper. I just wish they had a bruiser to stick in the paint, then I’d be really convinced.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    which i tried to tell everyone the day the Lakers “stole” Pau. That trade was so great for Memphis, I don’t think anyone understands. That trade literally netted them Marc Gasol, and in turn of losing Pau’s contract…..Zach Randolph.

  • shockexchange

    No, Actually, Pau Gasol / Andrew Bynum at the same ____ time (i) blocked and altered shots, lowering opponents’ FG % below their season averages, (ii) got two and three shots per possession on the offensive glass and (iii) limited opponents to one shot per possession. That was the deciding factor in those 2 chips.

    Just make sure you cite the source when you repeat this Lake.

  • spit hot fiyah

    didn’t they get kwame’s expiring which freed up space for signing randolph?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    yeah i think Kwame had a buy-out if i remember correctly.

  • Caboose

    It worked out great for Memphis, I think the only issue people can take with it is the general consensus at the time. When it went down, it LOOKED like a bad deal. Things just worked out for the Grizz exceptionally well. Which is why I doubt people consider the trade a rip off now, but more that they whine about what happened then.

  • LakeShow

    That was the other half of the reason why the won 2 chips good job.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Caboose, people hated the trade because the Lakers got a top 5 big. LOL, every trade they take part in elicits a blowback from the majority of non-LA based media.
    .
    If that trade was so unfair, then someone needs to explain to me the Kevin Garnett to Boston trade a little more thoroughly.

  • shockexchange

    Today he is.

  • LakeShow

    Yeah they got rid of Lopez huh? Not that he is the ‘missing key’, but he can do some things defensively.

  • Caboose

    Duncan has never won less than 60% of his season games. Ever. Chalk it up to the Spurs organization if you want, but when 10 out of 16 seasons result in better than 70% of wins, that’s gotta cement it, right?

  • LakeShow

    Even a prime version of each is comparable. Pau is the better rebounder, but Marc is slightly better defensively.

  • Caboose

    Kings got him (which is GREAT for them, he’ll push Cousins in practice), yeah. If they had secured someone like Dalembert just to come in and give 15 minutes of solid post D, that’d be really helpful.

  • Caboose

    Yeah, that’s my point. From our current perspective, there’s nothing to whine about.

  • Caboose

    Ehhhh, I LOVE Marc’s game, but Pau willed some Grizz teams to the Playoffs that had no business being there.

  • LakeShow

    Kings could make a little noise too.
    Vasquez coming over there will help them because they need someone to run the show.

  • shockexchange

    SE would chalk up that 60% clip mostly to the Spurs organization. That Robinson / Duncan duo was darn near illegal. That’s why the Spurs tanked to get Timmy. Judging simply on chips, it’s a push between the two players.

  • LakeShow

    They were better than we give them credit for.
    They were balanced and deep. They were good defensively which is always gunna help get some wins.

    Pau had a decent supporting cast:

    Jason Williams
    Mike Miller
    Bonzi Wells
    Shane Battier
    James Posey
    Earl Watson
    Dahntay Jones
    Drew Gooden

    I’m not saying they are an All Star Squad, but that team should have been fighting for the lower playoff seeds imo.

  • LakeShow

    I agree. I think that it can go either way between KB and Tim, depending on how you view it.

  • pposse

    that was unfair too

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    I felt that there was never anything to whine about is my point lol

  • LakeShow

    Yeah very true. Changing of the guard…

  • Caboose

    That’s fair. I just think that Marc is a top 5 center in a very weak center time whereas Pau was top 5 power forward in a very strong power forward time (Duncan, Garnett, Dirk, Webber, Boozer, Sheed, Brand, O’Neal).

  • Busta213

    Marc was still a fatty when they made that trade!

  • Sergio

    Like Kobe tweeted, “12th? I see…”

  • Max

    But Andrew only played 17 minutes a game in ’09..

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i’m having trouble even putting Houston over the Spurs at the moment. but i assume Dwight will be happy and healthy…adding that to James Harden is basically 54+ wins guaranteed.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    he was young. but the player that was underneath that layer of fat was pretty clearly (far as i could tell at least) a top tier Center in the making.

  • LakeShow

    Yeah it should be 50-60 wins a year for the next few for Houston…

    Parsons is someone you can put in the “big 3″ for them now too. He is a budding All Star I believe. At worse a prime Mike Miller.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    bravo

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    he reminds me of Dan Majerle so freaking much…idk if i’ve only ever said that on twitter. but thats who he reminded me of last season.

  • LakeShow

    I wonder if Lopez and Cousins could share some court time? I’d love to see Cousins playing the 4.

  • Caboose

    Why?

  • LakeShow

    I know that you can make arguments for why he assisted so much(usage rate etc) but it sounds silly to call the top assister at a position a black hole.

    And yeah he sucks on defense now, but try to give him just a little credit for sh*ts sake.

    I just did your argument for you, haha.

  • LakeShow

    Do I really need to say why?

    Okay fine…

    Cousins loves shooting and passing. Both things a one can achieve slightly easier at the PF position than the Center. Lopez is more of a defensive force at the center position and can help grab more boards and protect the rim while allowing Cousins to more so be able to play his game.

    Only against certain teams with certain line ups when it would bode well for them of course.

    Not starting and playing big mins together. Just switching it up a little.

  • LakeShow

    Yeah definitely a good comparison.

  • bike

    Horry Motherfu*kin Jr. says different.

  • Junior Taylor

    “his usual defensive standards”? Kobe hasn’t played good defense on a consistent game-to-game basis in about 5 seasons.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i have no argument. offensively Kobe was absolutely awesome last season. if he defended and made his teammates happy i would not have had a single criticism of his season at all.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    LOL, but it wasn’t like THAT. He has been slightly above average for the last 4 years, but last year, he was atrocious. I can think of at least 3 articles highlighting how truly terrible he was off the top of my head for goodness sake

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    I HOPE SO!!!!!

  • Caboose

    Orlando will be worse ;) We getting Wiggins!

  • LakeShow

    3 seasons.

  • LakeShow

    I like this duel between you two lol.

  • Caboose

    Word.

  • Caboose

    I think both of us are hoping for single digit win totals.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    no. i’m hoping for zero digit wins.
    .
    and you MIGHT be right….depending on how good Bledsoe really is. but if he’s not that good, Mo Harkless/Tobias Harris/Victor Oladipo = about 20 wins assuming everyone else stays healthy.

  • Caboose

    I assume by Harkless you mean Vucevic. Harkless was not good last season…

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    not on offense……

  • Caboose

    Haha that’s true, Orlando is quietly building an excellent defensive line…

  • TheRealness

    Dam that’s the only thing you do is diss Lakers & Kobe. It’s like you have nothing to do life

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    kinda my thinking. teams that are strong defensively are typically sneaky good at being only kind of crappy.

  • Busta213

    ROFL, did someone just say Farmar is entering his prime???
    !

  • Caboose

    You just described every single Scott Skiles team ever.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    f*cking exhibit “A” lmao

  • Junior Taylor

    I never knew that slightly above average = good. I’m not implying that Kobe has been horrible defensively the past few seasons but his defense has fallen off a cliff the past 3-5 seasons yet he continues to garner all-defensive accolades and praise whenever he decides to assert effort on the defensive end and shutdown a young PG (which happens once in a blue moon)

  • oceanvue

    I think Kobe is going to be in and out of the line-up for a while with nagging injuries. The Pelicans, Houston and Portland all moved in front of the Lakers. I see them 10th in the conference

  • Junior Taylor

    Yep. 5 seasons was a bit of a stretch. 3-5 is more like it.

  • MasterSplinter

    shockexchange is hot garbage.

  • shockexchange

    Not sure how that comment was a diss.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    oh i totally understand where you are coming from.. i just took that the wrong way.

  • Conor

    He’s 26 years old, amigo. 13/6 his lone season with significant minutes at 24, as a backup. Not bad.

    By the way, you can only really say that incredulously if someone announced what was “said” verbally, not if the person to whom you wished to respond physically existed and whose existence compelled you to select “Reply”. It’s ok, there’s still remedial high school grammar.

  • LakeShow

    Dude…….

    Lopez is on the F*ckin Trail Blazers! Way to take me down a rabbit hole.

  • LakeShow

    I don’t even think he’s hot.

  • LakeShow

    And it’s sad, because If KB was a beast defensively again he’d be moving up the all time ranking even higher…. But that ain’t happening so it’s nill point.

  • MasterSplinter

    hot garbage:

    Extremely foul smelling fart, usually created by
    a mix of beer and foods including but not limited to garlic, broccoli
    and beans, that slowly creeps across a room and lingers in the nostrils.
    Usually of the Silent but Deadly variety. Reminds you of the vicious,
    rotting scent of your trash cans waiting to be picked up on the hottest
    day of summer.

  • LakeShow

    Ohhhhhh…. Yeah, yeah… Totally agree.

  • LakeShow

    Scottie Pippen / Dennis Rodman

    KAJ / James Worthy

    Robert Parish / Kevin McHale

    Moses Malone / Maurice Cheeks

    D-Wade / Bosh

    Wilt Chamberlain / Gail Goodrich

    Willis Reed / Dave DeBusschere

    Robinson / Parker / Ginobli

    Wallace / Wallace

    ……………………………………………………………………………………

    Just putting it out there.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    you should just list the Spurs three times.

    (1999) Robinson/Elliot
    (2003)Robinson/Ginobili/Parker/Jackson — Really that year was Duncan’s “Hakeem Olajuwan championship”
    (2005 – 07) Parker/Ginobili

  • shockexchange

    Lake, SE assumes you are comparing Horry Jr to players who (i) have carried teams or (ii) players who had help in winning chips.

    A better comparison for Horry Jr would be Robert Horry, who aligned himself with “exceptionally more talent than the rest of the L” so he could win a chip.

    The sky is blue.

    The economy is headed for a double-dip recession.

    These are all facts. If that makes SE an attention whore for stating facts then so be it.

  • LakeShow

    Robert Horry is a bench player that had a few moments playing for several teams who were chip competitors.

    Kobe Bryant is one of the top 10 greatest players of all time.

    How would that make logical sense in like a “real human intelligent thought process” sort of a way?

  • shockexchange

    Your boy AllenP even said that Horry Jr has played with the four most dominant big men of his era – Shaq, D12 and Pau Gasol / Andrew Bynum at the same ____ time.

    SLAM readers acknowledged that the only other player to do that was Robert Horry who played with Hakeem, Shaq and David Robinson / Tim Duncan at the same ____ time. You can have you own opinions but you can’t pick your own facts.

    If he is indeed “one of the top 10 greatest players of all time,” then why do you keep “protesting so loudly?” For other players of his era – Paul Pierce, A.I., Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady – SE would put Horry Jr in the middle of the pack based solely on talent, and that’s being kind.

  • LakeShow

    You just admitted to being certifiably insane, incredibly ignorant, or mentally handicapped.

    Kobe Bryant is “Head and Shoulders ™” (Rids all of unwanted dander) above the guys you just mentioned.

  • Busta213

    Lol, that’s a “snooty response” fail, Conor. Feel free to edit it.

    Farmer has never averaged 13pts & 6asts for a season, and that Nets team was awful. Considering how Laker fans rated him, he has been a disappointment.

  • shockexchange

    Well “the Streets” don’t call him “Horry Jr” for nothing and “the Streets” don’t lie. *Welp*

  • LakeShow

    It’s narrowed down to certifiably insane, or mentally handi-capped.

  • shockexchange

    SE liked “attention whore” better. But we’re see. The season will start soon and that “top 10 greatest of all time” talk will be discarded for “We need Thor. No we need Iron Man. I wonder if Wonder Woman is still under contract,” just like always.

  • BIGG BENN
  • LakeShow

    No.
    It won’t.
    Because the rest of humanity, besides “the streets” (whatever the f*ck that means) has already formulated an opinion over the course of his first 17 seasons.

  • shockexchange

    D12 stipulated that before he re-signed with LA he wanted Horry Jr out of the picture. The top center in the L would rather take less $$ elsewhere than play with Horry Jr., meanwhile cats are thirsting to play with LeBron. That in itself tells you what the marketplace thinks of this guy – he’s a role player who doesn’t want to accept his role and overestimates his value-added.

    And the personal attacks begin on D12 in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 …

  • Feez_22

    Marc Gasol was an unknown to most of america at that time. The majority of people didn’t really realize his potential until the summer of 08 when the olympics rolled around. We saw a potentially good player but a player that needed to prove himself. A couple yrs after that he turned into the player we know now but at the time, he was fat late 2nd round center who was playing overseas.

    The main storyline of that trade was kwame for pau. I think the majority of people started to really think that trade was even (which it turned out to be) when the grizzlies beat the spurs in the first round of the 2010-2011 nba playoffs (esp since the lakers were swept by dallas that yr with pau getting completely abused by dirk).

  • LakeShow

    KB’s 35 years old.

    Dwight knew that KB only has another year or two of being the top shooting guard in the L.

    The Lakers want to give a proper farewell to one of the greatest players to play for their franchise.

    The Lakers would lose out on the big 2014 free agency which would cripple them in the new CBA.

    Makes sense why Dwight would want to leave and it makes sense why the Lakers refused to ditch Kobe.

    (I wonder why they didn’t do all they could to hold on to Robert Horry?? Hmmm……)

    If you actually use your noggin, you could figure this out on your own.

  • shockexchange

    And after all the back and forth, you’ve convince SE that the Lakers shouldn’t be ranked 12th in the pre-season. You’re the best. *Welp*

  • LakeShow

    I’m still confused about the Horry/Bryant dynamic…

    Why was Robert Horry never an All Star?

    Why is Kobe Bryant a 15 Time All Star?

  • shockexchange

    It just goes to show that critics put a lot more emphasis on scoring/shooting than on the things Horry did – scoring when necessary, rebounding, defense. Horry Jr is a volume shooter and stans and groupies glorify that. There are a lot of people who write or blog about basketball because they want to be popular or there’s money in it. Most of them don’t anything about the game, however.

  • LakeShow

    Kobe Bryant: Career FGA per game, 19.6
    Michael Jordan career FGA per game, 22.9

    So MJ was a worse “chucker”…

  • shockexchange

    Lake, SE jokes a lot, but never plays. You should never, ever compare Horry Jr to MJ … and forever’s a very long time. SE has spent way too much time typing words into a computer about Horry Jr today. You have any real players – The Kang, Steph, D. Rose, Nazr Muhammed, Kwame Brown – you’d like to debate about?

  • LakeShow

    Why does MJ say you should compare Kobe to him?

    I’m clocking out of work so I can’t debate on the merits of Kwame Brown vs Kobe Bryant, maybe tomorrow… (please no)

  • Caboose

    Lolololol oops

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Definitely, that is a good point. I didn’t really think about the “majority” – I don’t even talk about basketball stuff like this to most people who just watch hoop casually because they only react to what they see. The people here, for the most part, aren’t part of that group. That’s more where my disappointment stems from.

  • The Seed

    Lakers will be the 6 or 7the seed in the west, if Kobe plays game 1 healthy. BOOK IT!!

  • Feez_22

    I agree that we aren’t the “majority” per se but to really get a gauge on marc you’d have to had seen his high school balling days down in memphis or his overseas play down in spain. Maybe you have but most people pre-08 olympics here probably didn’t including myself (i def watch a lot of ball and even i missed on him). It’s kinda hard getting overseas games unless it’s streamed (usually, national games are only streamed).

    When he was drafted, his draft tape was typical of most players overseas. Even the lakers who had bynum injured at that time didn’t bring him over so you could argue that even they didn’t know what they had in marc at the time.

    The farthest back i could personally say that the trade definitely worked out for both teams fairly was 2010-2011 (since marc lost his weight and z-bo, the guy they got from that capspace was really good). As much as a basketball junkie i am, i personally can’t say i knew it from the start because it would be revisionist history on my end. It would be like saying i knew manu ginobili would be a really good nba player when he was drafted. Most didn’t in his case as well which reflected in his draft stock but he showed what he had and in a few years he was a great player. I think marc is the same.

  • YepGot’EmAgain

    Conor, we meet again.

    I agree with the ShockExchange. “They’ve been the “most underachieving team in the L”…

    For the past 3 years, the lakers were were 2nd seed went 4-2 against 7th seed and then got SWEPT by the mavericks. The Lakers were 3rd seed and beat a 6th seed nuggets 4-3 but lost 4-1 to OKC. AND, the lakers 7th seed got SWEPT this year.

    From 2004-2007, the lakers were 11th (not in playoffs), lost phoenix 4-3 in 1st round, and lost again to Phoenix 4-1.

    Then when Kobe got the help he requires, they finally did well. You might say, “but bro, he had smush and kwame…” when the Lakers were absolutely terrible, but Kobe had similarly talented players on his squad as Bron, Iverson, and Kidd had; however, the discrepancy of success is greater than the weight of the difference in conference strength, particularly in LeBron’s case.

    In all honesty, for Kobe’s career, 3 playoff seasons were successful when he was clearly the best (maybe not most crucial at times) on the team out of 17 seasons. Regardless of what anyone points to or tries to hype up, Shaq was the reason for success for the 2000-2004 three peat lakers. Evidence backs this up greatly in terms of team winning percentage with/without Shaq and/or Kobe, Shaq stats, style of play, basketball knowledge, etc.

    Additionally, you said, “they won’t have any issue scoring. Before, and especially with Bryant”. This is true, but misleading in the sense that usually when Kobe guns to score, the team usually does poorly in comparison to when he tries to facilitate. I like the Kobe who put up 14 assists back to back…that was ill. I do not like the Kobe who is inefficient volume scorer because this goes against what defines a significant point in the definition of a great basketball player – one who makes his team better a.k.a wins games.

    Now if you want to compare against LeBron, you shouldn’t because there really is no comparison. LeBron is and has been the better player and has already surpassed Kobe on the all-time list. Personally, I like Bron at 2 right now, but he needs more rings for everyone to accept that Bron should be 1-2.

  • YepGot’EmAgain

    LakeShow…you and ShockExchange are legends on the Slam Board…why beef bruh.

    But realtalk though, look at my reply to Conor above in regards to your above comment.

    Peace, be easy.

  • YepGot’EmAgain

    Also, for my point earlier, the Lakers were practically gifted the Playoffs this year after a horrible season, which, admittedly, was plagued by several factors from coaching, injuries, players, and more. But, the end of the season race was sketch. If you do not believe that, please objectively watch the LAL-GSW game that was poorly called at the least. The Lakers shot 50 something free throws to the GSW 16 free throws when both teams’ averages, if memory serves best, were both around 20ish free throws a game. Couple that fact with the visual evidence via youtube and then you will realize.

    By the way, I do think the Lakers are better than 12th and do agree that they will be sneaky deep this year; however, it depends on a multitude of factors that you are assuming will favor the Lakers, factors such as health and overrating players like Blake, Farmar, and Young. I like SwaggyP but he aint that tight as I want him to be (like tyreke evans and brandon jennings…I wish these three would dominate in the league).

    By no means am I hating on Kobe or the Lakers, for hating is for the weak. I do respect certain parts about Kobe’s game and his work ethic. But, he is not better than LeBron and is 9th best all time at best. Jordan Bron Shaq Dream Kareem Magic Bird Duncan in no particular order. If you want to include Russel and Wilt (I really don’t because I think their era was particularly and relatively weak in the sense where the players since the 80s to nowadays were/are supremely advanced in their skillset and athleticism. The two time periods to my understanding were worlds apart in athleticism and skillset. I would think that an average player in today’s game could go back and dominate in the past as Bill and Wilt (maybe not statistically) could have. Just my IMO

  • YepGot’EmAgain

    Then, Kobe would be 11th at best. Additionally to my point earlier, people say Kobe had “Kwame and Smush.” Do you really think people would remember the Cavs without LeBron. Mo Williams, Ira Newble, Eric Snow,Sasha Pavolic, Larry Hughes, Antawn Jamison, Damon Jones, Delonte West, Zydrunas Illgauskas (out of prime) and Shaq (out of shape and out of prime). Bro, be real, if LeBron did bad during those season as Kobe had, LeBron apologists would be like LeBron had “Mo Williams…etc.” They still do when LeBron was winning, which goes to show that LeBron really carried that squad and wasted 7 or so years with that squad in terms of rings. Thankfully, he left before becoming a KG-type with Minny.

  • CKLOH

    No need.

    You’re correct. P36M is a much better indicator of a bench players’ talent. And taking that into account, his performance was actually superior to what the initial numbers would indicate. During the 2010-2011 campaign, he averaged 14/7. In 2011-2012, he averaged 18/6. Impressive numbers for a reserve to Deron Williams, no matter your accordance (Williams who, then, was arguably the best, second or third-best point guard in the League) or interpretation of “Laker fans”.

  • CKLOH

    ’04-’07:

    - [04/05] After beginning 24-17, Bryant and Odom missed sixteen and eighteen games, respectively. If that isn’t a death knell with Honolulu-era Chucky Atkins and Brian Grant starting – starting! – then I ask you to name me one. Wait…

    - Tomjanovich retired abruptly, early in the season. Next…

    - [05-07] Bryant endured a young, inconsistent, occasionally incompetent supporting cast. Odom was the only one who was NBA-ready for the entirety of that era. Farmar, Walton, and Vujacic all developed at the end or afterwards because they were young. Parker was and shall remain Parker. Brown is presently paid to exist.

    - The two most recently mentioned also happened to sport career years playing with Bryant’s Lakers which happened to earn them good contracts beyond their tenure in Los Angeles.

    - Only four people who worked for Los Angeles during that era had any real grasp of power in the NBA: Dr. Buss, Jackson, Bryant, and Kupchack. That team won’t win games on the court, which people seem to fail to realize. No matter the considerable amount of true skill and professional proclivity.

    - Notice which of Bryant, Iverson, James, and Kidd played in the West? Do your homework.

    ’11:

    - Jackson revealed that he had cancer to the team at the end of the season. Understandably, morale was lowered.

    - Gasol was going through issues with his fiancée which reportedly involved another Laker. Friction ensued.

    - Bryant was physically limited and contemplated retiring after the season. Remember PRP?

    ’12:

    - Mike Brown.

    ———————————

    If you seriously believe that the dude who Jerry West (the NBA’s executive precursor to Pat Riley), Chick Hearn (the objective voice of the NBA), peers, and Shaquille O’Neal (then) considered the greatest basketball player in the League, let alone the LA Lakers, was not one of the three primary catalysts for LA’s threepeat (Bean, Diesel, & Zen), then you have no business discussing this topic further. Shaq was scary then because no one in the League was capable of challenging him other than Tim Duncan. Especially in 2000.

    Tell me, who was it who always was entrusted to close the precarious, tightly contested games? It seemed strange at the time because he was only twenty-one years of age.

    ———————————-

    “Scoring” is the sum of points a basketball team earns through a sequence of dribbling, shooting, and making a basket (or the same routine using a series of assists). That’s what scoring is. I obviously didn’t mean that Bryant needs to shoot every basketball that grazes his fingertips this season. What’s the matter with you? Learn basketball.

    ———————————–

    What are you, paid by ESPN? You stick with the company motto while I side with Dr. J and Larry Bird.

  • Evan Boland

    sigh

  • Evan Boland

    try 15 plus teams

  • Evan Boland

    1-6 is pretty much a lock. From 7-12 man I don’t know man. Anything could happen with any of those teams. It’s exciting. Pelicans could be a major flop and still a bottom feeder, wouldn’t surprise me. But nor would it surprise me if they were seventh. Minnesota I don’t even know what to expect if they’re fully healthy. The Lakers.. They could be a lot WORSE than last year… But it wouldn’t be shocking if they weren’t. I think you got Denver way too low.

    1- OKC
    2-SAS
    3-LAC
    4-GS
    5-HOU
    6-MEM
    7-MIN
    8-LAL
    9-DEN
    10-POR
    11-DAL
    12-NOP
    13-SAC
    14-UT
    15-PHX

  • Evan Boland

    You called Spurs – Heat, when? Come playoff time, or prior to the season?

  • Busta213

    Worse than the Lakers getting a top5 pick, they didn’t lose anyone from their rotation that mattered and Marc was a second round pick. As much as the trade worked out for both teams, the Grizz should’ve gotten more.
    The KG trade reeks of collusion between two former Celtic players – there were supposedly better deals on the table. The Wolves did end up with an player who was supposed to be a stud in Al Jeff (I believe you should be getting a youngster who is in the L with star potential as part of the package for your franchise player) .

  • Busta213

    You should – it comes across as quite forced.

    Im sure we will get into it at some point, but I doubt it will be over the “prime” of Farmer. :o )

  • shockexchange

    The women in the streets don’t concur, and the streets don’t lie.

  • Caboose

    Prior to season

  • LakeShow

    His stint was slightly less memorable than Dennis Rodman’s…..
    But I mean if you donned purple and gold you were technically a Laker.
    What Jim means though, is that he was never fully able to bask in Lakers glory, which is part of being a Laker for most players.

  • LakeShow

    Meh, probably 10 or less.

  • Evan Boland

    I’d say at least 10-15.

  • LakeShow

    Name em.

    There’s no more than 10 teams with more talent.

    I come up with 9.
    Heat
    Bulls
    Nets
    Pacers
    Thunder
    Clippers
    Warriors
    Rockets
    Grizzlies(?)

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Only forgot the Spurs

  • Yepgotemagain

    No need to get upset mate. You, like many Lakers fans or Kobe fans, find and make several excuses for Kobe and hold double standards. For instance, LeBron Delonte West situation still saw LeBron drop 27 19 10 in a game where ppl said he wasn’t trying. LeBron still led that squad to best record in the league I believe consecutivd years; his teammates just did not show up. For example, bron averaged 38 8 8 against Magic when Kobe had that for 1 game againsg Magic. What did everyone say though, “oh lebron didn’t shake hands and let his team down.” You could look at many teams and nitpick points on why the tram didnt do well. A great player helps his team overcome these weaknesses to elevate their teams. Why is it that Kobe wrongly gets thr lionshare of credit for winning rings but never gets an blame for losing, when Lebron never gets credit for winning and also gets the credit when losing whe. Statistically and through accomplishments Lebron has been shown to lead his team and help them win while Kobe is the opposite statistically speaking individually and teamwise

  • LakeShow

    I actually feel like the Lakers might be as talented (minus coaching…)
    Am I completely off?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i think you are giving a little too much credit to a few of the Lakers guys. And not enough to the Spurs for their depth, and wing talent (Leonard/Green). Leonard specifically is really big talent….Him/Parker/Duncan is a big 3..really. And we can’t confidently say Nash/Pau/Kobe are a “big 3″ – not at this point.
    .
    Unless you mean talent regardless of age?

  • LakeShow

    Yeah I must admit I wasn’t giving Leonard his due credit.
    Still not wildly more talented.

    Similarly talented if Nash resurrects slightly.

    So that’s 10 teams.

  • CKLOH

    I honestly cannot say that I bothered reading that.

    Your opinion matters to no one. Back to the bridge, troll.

  • LakeShow

  • Evan Boland

    Dude.. The Cavs have more talent than the Lakers.. I mean, yeah, on paper Gasol, Kobe and Nash looks good. But only on paper. Nash can’t play with these young guns anymore. Gasol is old, aching, and soft..

  • YepGotEmAgain

    CKLOH, I really don’t feel the need for such hatred or spiteful remarks and couldn’t have seen this coming from one of the more thorough (even though flawed at a basic, overlying principle perspective) comments I have seen on slam.

    Hopefully, I am not trolling for that is not my intention…but I can’t help to think as to why when people accurately/objectively rate Kobe or the Lakers, Lakers fans get super upset/mad/ act like irrational little kids who can only come back with hateful remarks.

    I am a LeBron fan but I accept that he has weaknesses (few) and has been slightly overrated sometimes…for instance his D is overrated because he can’t guard the 5 and he has shied from the clutch sometimes or not taken over (even though there is overwhelming evidence supporting that he is clutch and can dominate games regardless of the time easily) consistently.

    When someone says something objective or truthful about LeBron, even if it is against him, I don’t get upset or butthurt…I either agree or disagree and provide reasons…something Laker/Kobe fans really don’t do because any evidence they try to give is easily refuted, which then upsets them.

  • YepGot’EmAgain

    “Scoring” is the sum of points a basketball team earns through a sequence of dribbling, shooting, and making a basket (or the same routine using a series of assists). That’s what scoring is. I obviously didn’t mean that Bryant needs to shoot every basketball that grazes his fingertips this season. What’s the matter with you? Learn basketball.”..
    .I know this, but what you said in no way shape or form says anything about the argument that when Kobe scores more and shoots more than certain number, his team does worse. I’d rather have a player get 20 and 5 than score 30 pts any because it gets your teammates involved, which is the point of basketball being a team sport. Having your teammates involved will enable more players to score, thus, producing a greater number of efficient scoring opportunities.

    You basically said a definition that didn’t address anything I mentioned

  • LakeShow

    If Bynum plays, and plays well, yes.
    If not, no they aren’t.

  • Evan Boland

    Yeah. But at this point. The Lakers starts are almost as big “ifs” as Bynum.

  • LakeShow

    This is true.

  • CKLOH

    I have no issue listing Bryant’s flaws (which are born of age). He lacks the requisite energy to play defence because the team has leaned so heavily on him, offensively, for the past two seasons because of the mass amount of injuries. During three or four games of the regular season, he’ll shoot too often. He’s Kobe Bryant, who cares?

    I don’t enjoy discussing things with you because you reiterate the endless rotation of statistics over and over again. The game is about more than statistics (which, when you compare the two fairly, using comparative minutes as contextual foundation, are not so disparate).

    I’m upset that you don’t offer anything different than the hundreds of other people who are wrong about LeBron James.

  • CKLOH

    Your argument was ingrained with the notion that Bryant’s only potential offensive injection would be through his personal field goal attempts. That is simply incorrect. Bryant is consistently amongst the NBA’s leaders at the position of shooting guard when it comes to assists.

    Do you need me to define what a shooting guard is?

  • PC3

    Famar was so bad that nobody in the nba wanted him so went over seas I guess that s hitting his prime RT lol

  • PC3

    So The Anaylst are Wrong LOL Espn I MT Add Anaylst also said Kobe Is The most overratted Player @ Shooting Guard & James Harden is The best 2 guard..I agree w/ that assesment… Wake Up Lakers Kobe Has Always been the problem in LakerLand for the last 3 years..kobe has shoot more then any player ever in the nba & has missed the most shots ever in the nba #Overratted RT..He has Pushed out now 2 Furture Hall Of Famers D12&Shaq.. Not Only Will the lakers end up around 10-12 this season but LA will not —> their fingers @ The Real Problem Kobe aka (GoD) to Lakers..Dtony is the wrong coach for kobe gives this ballhog the green light to shoot 7-27 everynight lol this will never work i see better chemistry w/ Gasol & Nash but adding kobe makes them Awful Good Luck.. The only upside 2 the lakers was The Best Center In The Game In D12 who has never missed the playoffs RT

  • PC3

    Missing Spurs, Cavs, Wolves, Pelicans,Knicks & Detriot RT

  • PC3

    Ohh I Forgot The Denver RT

  • PC3

    Ranks For The 2013-14 Western Conference

    1.Rockets
    2.Clippers
    3.Thunder
    4.Spurs
    5.Warriors
    6.Grizz
    7.Wolves
    8.Peli’s / Nuggets
    9.Mavs
    10.Lakers
    11.Blazers
    12.Kings
    13.Jazz
    14.Suns

  • PC3

    Parsons is the Heart Of the Rockets My ppl in LA = will Make Big Shots & Will this team 2 a win Magic Johnson Is really High On Parsons …Miller was a good shooter not In the same class As Parsons

  • LakeShow

    No.

  • PC3

    Last Time I remember the Lakers Have a 35yr Kobe 40 yrOld Nash, A 32yr Old Gasol & Not A pLayers On THe Bench that would make the rockets roster RT Spurs, Cavs, Wolves, Peli s, Knicks & Detroit Have Better Talent

  • LakeShow

    okay bro thanks for making an account to let me know.

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