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Monday, September 9th, 2013 at 8:00 am  |  68 responses

Polladaday: West’s Best PF?

The West is absolutely stacked at the 4. Who leads the pack?

Who's the best power forward in the West?

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  • i_ball

    Gotta love the Big Fundamental!

  • CzechMate

    It is definitely Timmy, he can handle everyone in that list besides Dirk, pop usually puts someone else on him.

  • whooo!

    Surreal that it’s still TD, after all 17 seasons… If ever the NBA gets busted for PED’s, him, Kobe, and Lebron need to be candidates 1A, 1B, and 1C (i’m half joking).

    1998 1st team: Shaq, Malone, Duncan, Jordan, Payton
    2013 1st team: Duncan, Lebron, Durant, Kobe, CP3

  • LakeShow

    It’s Tim.

    I don’t want it to be Tim anymore. But it’s Tim

    Dammit Blake!

    Dammit Love!

    Dammit LA!

    All these guys should be able to outplay a 37 year old player with his mileage, but NOPE…

    None of them are the two way player that TD was last year.

    Keep on schooling these youngsters Timmy.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Tim Duncan has literally not played a single minute at Power Forward in over a year.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    LMAO at still calling Tim Duncan a power forward. He has not played one minute at that position in over an entire season.

  • LakeShow

    Yeah, you are right.

    Splitter isn’t much of a PF though is why I accept them calling Timmy that. They are both centers.

    I don’t know why people don’t like calling Tim a center, but if they’re calling him a PF, he’s the best…

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Splitter isn’t much of a PF on offense…..but on defense? he is all power forward. And Duncan is all center. Even Popovich finally admitted Duncan plays C. I just think everyone is so conditioned to call him a PF that it won’t ever go away. No matter how glaringly wrong it is.

  • LakeShow

    haha, it is funny.

    I don’t care as much as you, but it is one of the funnier myths in NBA that Duncan is a PF… Unless he’s got Robinson behind him.

  • Kadavour

    agreed. this issue irks my soul.

  • Saleem Rainman

    voted Kevin Love since Timmy doesnt play the 4 anymore ppl…

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    It’s stupid that people don’t care about this, but rant and rave about other positions.
    - If I told people Kobe actually played SF in Phil Jackson’s offense they would flip their sh*t. Even though its true.
    - I have seen countless “Russell Westbrook is a shooting guard conversations”
    - you just talked to me about “natural point guards” the other day
    - Duncan literally just won 1st team all NBA…..as a CENTER.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    He literally just won 1st team all NBA as a Center. Calling him a PF is a blatant lie at this point. The more I look at it

  • LakeShow

    Most people realize that the PF and Center positions can be fairly interchangeable. PF’s and Centers typically have similar roles. (rebound, protect the paint, help defense)

    Duncan can play both PF and Center with much effectiveness in both positions. Hence why people don’t care what you call him.

    Kobe can’t play PG like he can SG and SF. SG and SF are much more similar for KB’s skill-set, much like PF and C are for Duncan.

    You can call Kobe the SF and some people will freak, but most knowledgeable fans will understand why you say that, and realize it is not a silly claim.

    Now each offensive scheme has it’s own nuances. Maybe your PF is a stretch-pf. Maybe your SF is more of a PF or a Point-Forward. Most these positions are interchangeable in some way. PG on the other hand is not as interchangeable.

    Point guards are the quarter backs. Much different position than any other on the team, and should be viewed as such.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Go through the teams in the league. The difference between PF/C is about as interchangeable as other teams PG/Primary Playmaker on average. It’s never been normal to have a PF who can play C just as effectively and vice versa.

  • LakeShow

    What’s your point in all this again?

    Trying to remember what point i’m trying to make……

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    My point is that there is a very real difference between Center and Power Forward if you have to distinguish guys by position. And Tim Duncan is most certainly not a power forward in today’s NBA.

  • LakeShow

    Yeah, your right.

    You are way more passionate about TD being labeled a Center though, so i’ll let you carry on with that cause.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Well it is a very slow day otherwise

  • LakeShow

    Beleeeed me… i’m ready for ball to start…

  • JL

    Darn and I voted for him. But he still played a lot with Splitter at center.

  • JL

    LOL this offseason is unbearable.

  • JL

    I like LMA and Kevin Love as 2a and 2b. Dirk’s D is not even there anymore. Blake is getting close (a better jump shot away), and Pau I think is more a center, but then I voted for Timmy. Dammit I guess Pau is 1b. He gets underrated by everyone.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i’m ready for the top 50. but we have like another 10 days at least.

  • King David

    that is a good question

  • danpowers

    kevin love over griffin? did somebody hand out ccrack for free?

  • i_ball

    Well he is a C now but the fact he is better than all the players in the list at 37 (most people seem to agree on that) is just astonishing.

  • the Dude

    BG is the best dunker on the list, everyone else is better than him comprehensively.

  • danpowers

    he is better than his per game numbers. did you check his advanced stats or watch him play other than highlight clips? his minutes were cut down to 32mpg, still his offensive and defensive ratings improved over last year and he became one of the better passing power forwards. he is not an above average defender but still much better than love who refuses to close out on shooters to collect defensive rebounds – actually griffin is as good as a rebounder. the only thing love does better than griffin is to shoot the ball which still makes griffin the better player overall.

    leave alone the rest of the ranking. duncan isnt a power forward (he never really was anyway) but even if he was, his last season wouldve put him first on that list as he proved that father time doesnt really have any affect on him. then gasol then griffin, then nowitzki, aldridge, love,randolph, lee and ibaka in that order.

  • danpowers

    even then the spurs simply played with two centers lol

  • danpowers

    neither in “back then’s nba”

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    He played PF for his first 6 years….. At least he did out of necessity. That’s all I meant. He doesn’t qualify today, in anyway, shape, or form.

  • danpowers

    i always saw him as a center even next to robinson. that were just simply two centers and pop just used duncan a bit further from the rim at times because his reportoire let him. we all know that the pf myth was just set into this world so that duncan would earn 1st team honors and all star appearances in the golden age of centers or later on: next to shaq.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Oh man are you overrating Blake Griffin. Blake Griffin is atrocious on defense. I would rather have Kevin Love every day of every week.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Ehh, depends how you feel about positions. He was technically a PF for the first half of his career. Whether its really “right” or not related to his skillset is never going to matter. That’s why I like to either label them by the position they actually play, or just ignore their position altogether and just focus on their role(s) instead

  • danpowers

    thats why i wrote “he is not an above average defender” but come on, he isnt that bad neither anymore. i dont get why he cant use his athleticism for defensive prowess but to me he looks less as a lame duck on D than love does. love stays at his own rim all day to collect defensive rebounds, if griffin did that he would also have numbers like 14+ rpg.

    love just gives you better scoring while griffin is the better pick and roll finisher and passer. i dont see how love is better here, especially not after this lost year. id like to see him actually play before i put him back into a discussion about the best guys at the 4.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Yes he is. He’s terrible. Even guarding the post, his biggest defensive strength….he ranked like 172nd in the league. He’s terrible. .
    And Kevin Love is a way way way better passer than Griffin. Assist numbers don’t = better passer. Griffin is a good passer, Love is one of the best passing bigs on earth.

  • danpowers

    then let him still be terrible, i just say that he improved a little on defense. i just dont see how love would help a team that much more on defense than griffin.

    about love’s good play in general: that was before last season. he played in 18 games this year shooting 35fg% from the field while griffin proved himself as a durable contributor.

    sure, griffin is pretty limited when it comes to post moves and defense, not to speak of his free throw shooting, but his strenghts still let him be a main contributor on a playoff team which now has (more or less) title aspirations while love -not really his fault tho- probably wont make the playoffs again

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    I am not going to judge someone with broken wrists on their shooting %’s in 18 games. And Love way exponentially better than Griffin 2 years ago. Infact, I had weekly arguments with people who insisted he was the best PF in the league. That imo is too far. But he’s been better than Griffin so far. And most people within the NBA community feel that way. It’s not like my beliefs about Lamarcus Aldridge, where I’m the only person who feels that way.

  • danpowers

    i dont even remember my own oppinion about both 2 years ago so i wont get into that lol. i just know that i never saw love as the best pf. i might consider him as that as soon as he carries a team to the playoffs.

    what is your exclusive oppinion about aldridge?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    When happy, (and put in an offense that actually makes sense) he’s the best 4 in the league.

  • danpowers

    he was the year b4 last season, at least arguably. thats when he started to get to the rim / post more and operate less from mid range as far as i remember. so id co-sign that. its just sad that he recently commited to portlands rebuild (which speaks for his integrity tho). id rather like to see him demanding a trade this summer to play on a contender to get the reputation he deserves.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    I would just like it Terry Stotts did something other than set him up for 17 footers….

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Well Dirk was. But I just can’t ever see him replicating that season. That was unreal. He was so focused…sh*t that whole team was so focused. Idk when we’ll see that again from anyone.

  • danpowers

    yup, that’d work for me, too.
    but still, the bulls couldnt get to terms with deng for an extension. chances of a swap including both players are almost 0 but imagine such a trade bringing aldridge to a team like the bulls teaming up with guys like rose and thibs. that would put them on a level with the heat. the bulls arent the only team he could turn from contenders into favorites.
    almost regardless of how stotts uses him: his prime is being wasted away in portland which is really sad.

  • danpowers

    co-sign all that for this season thats why i wrote “arguably”.
    still, who do you think wouldve won a game of one on one that year: dirk or la? id tend to say la.

    ps: im aware that 1on1 skills dont equal a players value for team success.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    If it’s makers and by 1′s and 2′s then Dirk

  • danpowers

    how that? you dont think la could take that 2 (3) away from him in a 1on1?

  • danpowers

    well, i felt like he was a 7 footer who played just so good overall that it didnt matter where you put him in the front court – he would be better than anyone who played against him. by my understanding of positions by that time he was a center – does my memory trick me here or were duncan (still feels so wrong to put him into that 4 spot lol), kg and nowitzki the first wave of guys around 7 foot to play the 4? there have always been guys like kevin willis or so who played the 4 but so many bigs with range at the same time really brought a new understanding of the 4 into the league and changed the game. but even the young duncan was a little different to those guys imo and his game always reminds me more of center than a power forward.

    so by my conservative understanding of positions by that time i just saw a team playing with two centers when i watched the spurs. these lines hurt badly as the 99 finals just came back to mind lol

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Well Kevin McHale was the first 4 who sincerely dominated as a Center sized post player in the 3pt era. Before that, post play was really the only way too score consistently, so it was a little more normal. Good Seven footers were just rare altogether back then though so it’s a bit different perspective wise.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    In my experience the more skilled offensive player has an easier time in a typical one on one game. Sh*t I won the one on one post game contest with all the non bigs in high school and I was only like 5’8″ at the time. Just had a bigger array of stuff to use on people and better fundamentals. One on one is very different than normal hoop. I don’t even like considering it honestly lol it’s like a different sport

  • danpowers

    i see. still i see duncan as a center. even if you consider him as a power forward because he actually played this position in his first six years still leaves quite some years at center which he naturally is. i think we agree on this. i just think the nba kept it that way to promote him better as this position made it easier for him to get all star starting spots and nba first team honors.

  • danpowers

    hmm i see but sometimes guys who know how to just use their body better win against guys who are technically more sound and sometimes its just all about mojo lol. but yeah, its not really a very important point one can make about a player. its just… there are almost two months left to fill with questions like that untill the season starts lol

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Ugh, pretty sure Dirk has pretty unrivaled body control/footwork it’s just unorthodox

  • danpowers

    sure he got that. i just see la having a slight edge at strenght, mobility and vertical leap – which is just a subjective impression, sure. his body control and footwork aint too shabby neither. the more i think about that matchup the more id love to see this imaginary 1on1 for real lol

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    lol no doubt

  • LakeShow

    Another day, another surprise…. Standing up for Love, I like it!

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    well, 2 days in a row of having non-extreme conversations about players will do that. i like these types of conversations, civilized, without a real arguing point to get upset over. my opinion is not far from your’s on most stuff. you are just extremely optimistic about the guys you “like” (lack of a better word), and quite the opposite with those that you don’t. i try and be as non-biased as a human being can be. although i know i often fail.

  • LakeShow

    Very accurate and well said.

    Hope Love gets back in the groove this year.

    Scratch that, Hope Minny gets back. Rubio and Love is too fun a duo to not have playing year in and year out.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Minnesota’s offense is going to be thrilling as long as Rubio is healthy. The team can make the playoffs if Love is back to 100% though. and OKC/Minn 1st round is a dream scenario for me.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    well the Spurs left it that way. The NBA has nothing to do with how San Antonio wants to label it’s players.
    .
    And the “Tim Duncan is a PF” thing f*cking worked wonders. Teams literally put their PF’s on him for a number of years. Duncan’s underrated foot speed was way too much for most Centers to deal with until about 2009. He was a PF with a Center’s skillset. Really.
    .
    And that’s why I still call him the best PF of all-time.

  • LakeShow

    Ho good is Shabazz going to be?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    not very. he may playe lik 15-20 minutes. But he’s not that good, especially on defense (where he will be the worst defensive player on the worst defensive team) I doubt he gets much opportunity this season.

  • LakeShow

    Awh, that’s to bad.

    Here’s to hoping Derrick Williams can play SF then!

    They still have some guys to play the SF with some effectiveness.

    Brewer, Budinger, Shved

    They can be really fun and make the playoffs like you said. Come in the 7th,8th spot and make for a very exciting (even if they are swept) opening series in the West.

  • danpowers

    then take my statement as “the spurs” instead of “the nba”. the way you just put it really takes some credibility off my conspirancy theory. but my oppinion is still – a 7 footer with a centers skillset is a center to me, even if he officially gets listed as a 4.

    the only reason why im cool with duncan being listed as a 4 all these years is what you just wrote: “And that’s why I still call him the best PF of all-time.” i would hate to have to call malone the best 4 of all time as i cant find any love for an racist (angola at the olympics) NRA supporter lol

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    it’s really semantics. as i’ve said, i don’t personally like the “guys fit this position, so that’s how it should work” mold of basketball thinking. i am much more liberal with how i view building a basketball team and looking at players.

  • danpowers

    well, on court thats reasonable. even in discussions. but especially in times like these, where the only highlights in terms of nba basketball are headlines like lebron james’ toe, strict positional order helps to squeez players into certain categories to compare and argue about them lol

  • Terry B

    Duncan definitely plays more C because of the smaller big men they’ve had on the bench lately (don’t want Diaw and Blair playing C), but if you had to toss aside the fact that he spent more minutes at C and designate him a natural position based on his skill set, it would definitely be PF.

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