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Monday, December 23rd, 2013 at 9:00 am  |  110 responses

Post Up: Love Gets Mad

Lance Stephenson gets a triple-double; Raptors upset the Thunder, Kevin Love pours it on in a loss.

by Jay Wallis | @JayWallis11

Pacers 106 (22-5), Celtics 79 (12-17)

The Pacers have three consistent forces in Paul George (24 points, 5 rebounds), Lance Stephenson (12 points, 10 assists, 10 rebounds) and Roy Hibbert (15 points, 12 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 blocks) that have allowed them to sprint through the first part of this season. Stephenson had his League-leading 3rd triple-double of the season on the night, continuing to look like a different player compared to previous years. The Celtics jumped out to a quick 15-10 lead, as Avery Bradley (13 points, 6 rebounds) scored 9 of the these 15 points. However, no one else really came to play, with Jeff Green (11 points, 6 rebounds) and Courtney Lee (11 points, 3 assists) being the only other Celtics players that scored in double-digits. Indiana used a 24-5 run in the 2nd quarter to extend their lead to 47-28 with 3 minutes to go in the 1st half. At this point, with Boston’s lack of offense and Indiana’s elite defense, the outcome had been all but decided. The Pacers outscored the Celtics 50-22 in the paint. In his second game back, Danny Granger (12 points, 5 rebounds, 4-5 on 3-pointers) looked much more comfortable and showed the shooting touch he possessed before his lingering injuries. If Granger can find a way to even just be a threat from deep as the season moves along, he can help an Indiana bench that ranks 26th in the League in points per game (24.5).

Raptors 104 (11-14), Thunder 98 (22-5)

The Raptors handed the Thunder their first home loss of the season, have now won four of their last five games and lead the Atlantic Division. (Someone has to win this division, right?) These winning ways are in large part due to the play of Kyle Lowry (22 points, 9 assists, 7 rebounds, 4 steals), who has excelled since his trade rumors sprouted up. Russell Westbrook (27 points, 9 rebounds, 5 assists, 5 turnovers) and Kevin Durant (24 points, 8 rebounds, 3 assists, 6 turnovers) didn’t take very good care of the ball but were the only OKC players in double-digit scoring, as this team looked a step slow and worn out from their emotional 113-100 victory over the Spurs the previous night. Reggie Jackson (6 points, 5 rebounds, 4 assists, 1-11 from the field, 0-5 on 3-pointers) looked the worst, struggling to find his shot all night long. Both teams shot below 40 percent from the field. Amir Johnson (17 points, 13 rebounds) had his 3rd double-double in these 5 games and John Salmons (14 points, 3 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 steals) is doing his odd routine by playing well after a mid-season trade. After coming back from a 19-point deficit against Dallas in Saturday night’s 109-108 overtime win, the Raptors came back from a double-digit deficit again, trailing 82-71 late in the 3rd quarter. Toronto locked down and locked in defensively in the final quarter, allowing Oklahoma City only 14 points on 5-25 shooting.

Clippers 120 (20-9), Timberwolves 116 (13-15) OT

All the points in this game may not show it, but the Clippers had to fight for this gritty win and extend their League-leading winning streak to 5 games. Jared Dudley (15 points, 4 steals) knocked in a huge go-ahead 3-pointer with 38 seconds to go in overtime while Chris Paul (19 points, 13 assists, 6 rebounds, 2 steals) made 5 free throws in the final 19 seconds to close this one out. Paul grabbed his 22nd double-double of the year, twice as many as any other guard in the League. After Paul missed a free throw and Kevin Love grabbed his 16th rebound, the Wolves were only down 2 points and had a chance to tie this up again. Nikola Pekovic (34 points, 14 rebounds) had a good look on a baseline hook shot but couldn’t convert. He also missed two shots at the end of regulation that would have given Minnesota the lead. The starting power forwards from each team—Blake Griffin (32 points, 10 rebounds, 4 steals) and Kevin Love (45 points, 19 rebounds, 6 assists)—put on a thrilling duel for the Staples Center. Love is the first player with 45-19-6 since Hakeen Olajuwon (46-19-8) in 1996. I think he might have been a little upset that All-Star voters currently have his opposing power forward ahead of him. Now if only his team can start doing their part in bringing home some wins. Jamal Crawford (22 points, 5 assists, 4 rebounds) seemed to be making shots from outside the gym at times Sunday night. The sixth man made a 3-pointer to end the 3rd quarter and scored the final 4 points of the 4th quarter to send this one into overtime. As clutch as Damian Lillard has been for Portland, Crawford has been playing a similar role for the Clippers. Kevin Martin (16 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists, 6 turnovers) has been anything but clutch this season, having a bad turnover with 8 seconds to go in regulation that allowed Los Angeles to tie the game. Being up 2 (again) with 3 minutes left in overtime, Martin threw the ball away to Darren Collison (18 points, 8-12 from the field), who took it in for a breakaway dunk. Matt Barnes (3 points, 11 minutes) was ejected at the end of the 3rd quarter for a hard foul on Love, but it looked as if he was making a play on the ball. Even though he dished out 12 assists, Ricky Rubio had 0 points on 4 shot attempts in 38 minutes. If the Timberwolves want to start winning close games and vying for a playoff spot in a competitive Western Conference, they need their starting point guard to be much more of a scoring threat.

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  • pposse

    Ricky Rubio 0 pts 4 shot attempts in 38 mins?! That’s unacceptable.

  • Max

    He’s just the Dennis Rodman of pg’s with assists instead of rebounds.

  • TR

    Is it foreal up in the air between Love and anyone else for best PF? His offensive game is incredible

  • Conor

    Love is a top three player. Wasting his talents in a hinterland like his predecessor.

  • therichardkirby

    Not right now, no. Although, next year the crown should go to Anthony Davis. No other PF affects the game on the defensive end like he does, and he has made great strides with his offensive game

  • TR

    Davis is a beast. No denying that…I think he’ll be the best player in the league in 4-5 years.

  • Max

    A top three player’s team is in the playoffs period.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    LOL, shouldn’t top 3 players be willing their team to victories? or at least, shouldn’t top 3 players play both sides of the court?

    The dude went for 45 points and 19 rebounds, but still managed to end up a (-3) for the game.

  • spit hot fiyah

    His defense is also incredible, in a bad way

  • spit hot fiyah

    Lance is killing the ice cubes so far this year

  • http://RAPTORS.COM/ BRAVO

    Raptors win raptors win raptors win!

  • Conor

    His defence is a work-in-progress, yes, but – and for comparison’s sake, LeBron James was a mediocre defender until 2008 – when you have Corey Brewer as your starting SF, Ricky Rubio (who is like Rondo without the defence & scoring capacity), and a rancid bench, Love must devote the majority of his energy to the offensive end as a compensatory measure. He has Pekovic and Martin, sporadically, to lean on. One-and-a-half reliable teammates.

    When someone drops 45/19 against one of the best teams in the NBA and averages 26/15, he is not the reason his team fails. Garnett endured the same incompetence as Love in Minnesota.

  • Conor

    A top-three player usually has a team to be in the playoffs with. Pekovic notwithstanding.

    Rubio, Brewer, and select bench players have only done what they have accomplished this season because of Love.

  • Conor

    And without the defence & imposition of will.

  • Da-Meat-Hook

    I agree with nbk on this one; the Wolves are currently 11th in their conference (14th in the L). It’s hard to give him “Top 3″ status when he’s only a “difference-maker” on one side of the ball.

    I’d take LeBron, KD, CP3, and Paul George over Love by a considerable margin, and an argument can be made for Aldridge as well.

  • i_ball

    LOL – 11th in the conference 14th in the L

  • TR

    Its really not as bad as people say it is. He could be better, but hes not awful.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    LOL, it’s horrendous.

  • TR

    I’m not saying hes top 3, but with numbers like that we’re really gonna put the loss on him? what about Kevin Martin’s bonehead turnover at the end of the game? Love was giving it to every big man on the clippers

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i am not putting “the loss” on him.

    show me a top 3 player whose team finished below .500 every single year of their career……

    i’ll wait.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    everyone whose defense is absolutely terrible is a work in progress until people finally just say, “he is not improving”

    yes, Love is slightly better defensively than last season. Slightly better than completely awful is still awful. And no, he’s not the type of mediocre defender that LeBron was, and he doesn’t have any athleticism to fall back on in his road to improvement. I do not understand why you insist on using LeBron to show why other players can improve. That’s like using Hakeem to show why a 6’10 center can be great. They are not the rule, they are the exception.

    I never once said he’s the reason his team fails. You people just read comments and then fill in the blank with your own assumptions.

  • theDankerNuggets

    he has no desire ever to shoot the ball which really does need to change because this team badly needs someone from the perimeter to challenge defenses at least a little bit

  • spit hot fiyah

    the only reason it is not as bad sometimes is because he doesn’t play it at all when he doesn’t feel like it. he is the james harden of power forwards

  • Conor

    “LOL, shouldn’t top 3 players be willing their team to victories?”

    Hyperbole for hyperbole, jackass.

  • Conor

    LeBron didn’t improve defensively because he “fell back on” his athleticism, you twit. He improved because he dedicated himself to it.

    Love has no energy to focus on locking people down consistently, yet he still outscores players like Blake Griffin by thirteen and outrebounds counterparts like Blake Griffin by nine. Once he has a team which allows him to siphon his energy into a winning team formula, we will see what he is capable of. Until then, he’ll have to put up lines like 45/19/6 simply to lose in OT.

  • don

    in his defense, he does play one of the better on-on-one defense there is

  • Conor

    Top three or top five.

    James and Durant are clearly one and two, but Paul, George, and Love are interchangeable. Only my opinion.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    why are you getting so sensitive? the LA connection really f*cks up your judgement doesn’t it? anything LA related and you comment like a 10 year old who just had his favorite toy taken away.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    “LeBron didn’t improve defensively because he “fell back on” his athleticism, you twit. He improved because he dedicated himself to it.”

    And no, he’s not the type of mediocre defender that LeBron was, and he doesn’t have any athleticism to fall back on in his road to improvement

    – As in, while he’s mediocre, he has no athleticism to fall back on, you know, to keep himself from being horrible defensively. Which he is. Horrible. Twit.

    Love HAS NEVER played defense. “he doesn’t have energy” is just an excuse. In the mean time, Love is a great player. A really great player. But he has to find a way to change the outcome for his team. Which is true of every great player who has had trouble winning. Twit.

  • BE.water

    Nah. I’m pretty sure it’s just the way you comment to people. You DO come across as an arrogant Jackass whenever you disagree with someone haha. But I aint mad.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    lol i didn’t do that here though, i just replied to him and addressed his points. Then he got defensive and starting slinging insults for whatever reason

  • Conor

    I’m just going to let you reflect on how many people you’ve called “jackass” over the years and allow that to settle in.

    I respect exceptional players who are dealt poor hands. College basketball is meaningless to me, as is LA’s smog-ridden, hydraulic fracture well-peppered metropolis.

    Everyone knows Love’s defence is poor, your critique isn’t quite as revelatory as you make it out to be.

  • TR

    I think Westbrook is a top 5 guy now

  • Conor

    You don’t get 45-19-6 and get to be critiqued as a failing centrepiece. What’s he supposed to do, shoot for Rubio? Rebound for Brewer? gtfo

    Occasionally, nbk, it’s the surrounding talent.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Oh! you act super sensitive because I’ve called people jackass? it’s retaliation for all those poor people who i’ve insulted in the past? lol, i’m sure they are happy that you have leaped to their defense.

    “Everyone knows Love’s defence is poor, your critique isn’t quite as revelatory as you make it out to be.”

    For one, I didn’t say what I said to spark a new thought in your head. It was just a comment. No need to get all upset about it.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    I DIDN’T CRITIQUE HIM AS A FAILING CENTERPIECE. You guys keep filling in the blanks in your head though. It’s just a criticism. There is a criticism for every single player in the NBA. None of them are perfect. Love has to learn how to affect the game in a more significant way outside of the box score. How much more? idk. How much of his team being below .500 is on his teammates? most of it probably. But he’s still part of the team, and he’s still not perfect. So there are things he can improve on.

    I think the more interesting question is, how come everyone is so upset about what i’m saying? i am not the only one who thinks Kevin Love has short comings as a player.

  • LakeShow

    He may be the new king of triple doubles if the Pacers don’t get a real point guard.

  • BE.water

    haha it’s the reputation yo.

    I’m on my way back to phoenix for the week though, you know of any good runs going down?

  • Conor

    Perhaps not, but one person has already commented on it in this thread.

    I’m not upset, I’m just pissing you off.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    with Christmas right around the corner, there isn’t much. idk if the ASU Rec is even open right now, best bet is probably LA/Lifetime fitness honestly. Unless you know of a run put together at a high school, but at the moment, most of my boys are out of town or playing in leagues.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    you are?

  • BE.water

    I figured as much, I generally hit the LA Fitness in Ahwatukee, but the last few times people haven’t been showing up like they had in recent years

  • brothasdontsurf

    Kendrick Perkins basically does the same thing in the paint and he’s been on title contenders for a good 5 seasons at least

  • brothasdontsurf

    I’ll always stick with the Purp/Gold por vida, but man it’s a nice luxury to be able to watch all of the Clippers games. Jamal Crawford with the ball and 1 defender in front of him is like porn for me.

  • brothasdontsurf

    I’ll be repping Purp/Gold por vida, but it’s decent af to be able to watch all Clippers games on tv. It’s even better that I can mute their announcers also!

  • LakeShow

    You act like he has had such a good opportunity afforded to him. His chance to will a team with the health conflicts and all has been slim to nil.

    Do you think he should have willed his team his first two years when he came off the bench and got less than 30mpg?

    Or is it his first full year playing starters minutes that he should have willed them to the playoffs? He put up 20-15 that year and hadn’t established his offensive style yet.

    So now that those first three years are thrown out…

    His 4th year in the L. His first year as the certified go-to-guy on the team, he only plays 55 games.
    You can’t will a team to victory when you miss 30 games.

    His 5th year, last season, was his most injury riddled yet… Only 18 games played.

    Take your blinders off.

  • LakeShow

    Well said Conor.

  • LakeShow

    Centers typically support a defense more.

    Point guard’s support an offense more.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    no, i act as though you can’t call a guy a top 3 player when he has not shown the ability to win games.

    of course he hasn’t had much opportunity, but that doesn’t change what is true.

    If in 2004, I called LeBron a top 3 player…..what would you have said?

    go ahead, tell me you would have agreed. Lie it up buddy. Lie it up.

  • LakeShow

    I didn’t even see the top 3 non-sense. I dunno where I have him overall ranked… who cares.

    The fact is he is an absolute beast..

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    what time you normally go? since the economy picked back up out here, seems like open runs are starting a little later. the good runs from what i can tell are typically taking place after 5:30

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    well maybe you should actually read the context before you go jumping to conclusions. i never said Love was anything other than great.

  • brothasdontsurf

    Yeah, what I’m trying to say is that they both created spots for themselves without needing to showcase scoring ability, like whatsoever. We knew Rubio wasn’t a scorer even back before he came over here.

  • LakeShow

    I don’t know about top 3.

    Top 6 without a doubt though.

  • LakeShow

    First thing I read when I get onto SLAM this morning:

    “(3) total offensive rebounds from Kevin Love. His rebound total would have been a lot more impressive had they been rebounds that made a difference. He’s a great offensive player, but geez the guy needs to find a way to alter something about what the other team is doing. If that makes sense.”

    So no, I don’t need to read the context. I saw all the context I needed from the very first link I clicked on.

    NOTHING said about Rubio and Martin, just about Love grabbing too many defensive rebounds… lol.

  • LakeShow

    We still expected at least 10-12ppg from him. You know, kind of like Rondo.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    that is me saying what? anywhere in there, did i disagree with anything you’ve said about him? Did i blame Minnesota losing on Love? You are just filling in the blanks with assumptions. I was just pointing out what I found to be the issue with Love.

    I’ll just express the longer version I put on Twitter, maybe this is more clear

    “i think my issue with Kevin Love’s impact on games is that he doesn’t really do anything that takes another team out of their comfort zone

    i mean, he scores a bunch, in a way that qualifies. But he isn’t grabbing an inordinate number of offensive rebounds or making much of an

    impact defensively, other than grabbing all those rebounds. Which in itself, is good in a box score, but doesn’t necessarily change much

    the job of a defense is to rebound regardless of who the individual is that grabs it. Kevin Love having 15 defensive rebounds doesn’t change

    the course of a game. I would wager Nikola Pekovic’s 8 offensive rebounds last night had a bigger impact than Love’s 19 total rebounds.

    let me preface this before it gets out of hand. I am not calling Kevin Love bad, he’s still a top 3 (2, maybe 1) Power Forward….

    I am just trying to express what I think it is, that is keeping him from pushing his team to wins consistently.”

  • davidR

    the james harden of PFs. nice

  • Max

    Well he’s giving us 10 points, but the shooting percentage HAS to go up.

  • TR

    haha man, i know you saw me write “im not saying hes top 3.”

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    yeah……and i know you saw that i didn’t put the loss on him. i was just replying to Conor.

  • LakeShow

    Yeah, sorry, 10ppg on less than 8 shots.

    His 3 point % is actually at a respectable 35% right now on 2 attempts per game.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    he seems terrified to shoot it though. that’s my issue with him, it’s one thing to shoot a low %, but it’s entirely something different to shoot a low % and not even be a threat to attempt a shot on the vast majority of possessions.

  • TR

    Well when you say he should be willing his team to a victory it seems like you’re blaming him for the loss in my opinion, but i must have misinterpreted

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    “victories” – plural. as in, a top 3 player isn’t typically trudging through the mud on a team that loses more than it wins.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Dwyane Wade named Eastern Conference Player of the Week.

    But he should be traded for Evan Turner tho.

  • Max

    Yeah that’s pretty good for him, but his overall fg% is the same, and that’s just way too low for a PG who doesn’t even score much.

  • LakeShow

    “i think my issue with Kevin Love’s impact on games is that he doesn’t really do anything that takes another team out of their comfort zone”

    Essentially you’re saying that he is not a special offensive player. Because, if he was a special offensive player, he would take teams out of their comfort zone. Correct?

    Which is absolutely absurd.

    Kevin Love is the best offensive PF (if LeBron i still concidered a SF) in the L. Do you know what the best offensive players do in the L? They take teams out of their comfort zones.

    Do you honestly think that the best 3 point shooting, rebounding, and passing big man in the L, does not take teams out of their comfort zone?

    Last season(Love missed majority of the year) the Timber-wolves were 11th in offensive rebounds, 16th in defense, 16th in assists, 19th in efficiency, 19th in points scored.

    This season the Wolves are leading the L in offensive rebounds. 14th in defense. 7th in assists. 11th in efficiency. 4th in points scored.

    So they have gotten better at everything with Love as the center piece of the team.

    “I am just trying to express what I think it is, that is keeping him from pushing his team to wins consistently”

    It’s not Love…

  • LakeShow

    I know it’s a dead horse, but he needs 1 move that he can always get off consistently to take him to the next level. No one respects his scoring prowess right now. He can’t run the team the way he’s capable when no one respects his ability to put the ball through the hoop.

    He makes Rondo look like an offensive savant.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    “Essentially you’re saying that he is not a special offensive player. Because, if he was a special offensive player, he would take teams out of their comfort zone. Correct?”

    - Nope. You gameplan your defense around Kevin Love, he isn’t going to do anything throughout the course of a game that comes as a surprise. If you can anticipate it, you aren’t being taken out of your comfort Zone. That’s why Kevin Love can be this good, and his team can still lose more often than it wins.

    “This season the Wolves are leading the L in offensive rebounds. 14th in defense. 7th in assists. 11th in efficiency. 4th in points scored.”

    - They are 2nd in offensive rebounds. (4th in offensive rebound %) – and Nikola Pekovic is the main catalyst to this, not Kevin Love.
    - 11th in defensive rating actually. Still better with Love off the court as well. – and they are 26th in Points Per Game Against. Nothing to brag about.
    - WHOO HOO, 7th in assists! that’s relevant.
    - Yep, 4th in points….a new roster full of offensive firepower will do that for you.

    - Again, I never said Love wasn’t great. And I never said he doesn’t make them better. He just doesn’t put them over the top, like his reputation as the best 4 in the league would typically elude to. But thanks for playing. Anymore assumptions or false facts you would like to let me know about?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    he sure does. Rubio doesn’t have the athleticism that Rondo does/did, so he has no way to get easy buckets like Rondo.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=rubiori01&y1=2014&p2=rondora01&y2=2010

    just look at them at the same age.

  • LakeShow

    There is no point to this covo.

    You don’t think that great offensive players make teams feel out of their comfort zone.

    So I just can’t even relate to anything else you think.

    That alone is so absurd.

    Durant doesn’t take a team out of their comfort zone because they know how he’ll score his 30-40 points… sure…

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    You are aware there is more to basketball then scoring right?

    Love doesn’t command double teams. He finishes plays, and is a good but not entirely willing passer. But he’s not going to change the way a defense plays him at any point in a game, let alone on a consistent basis. Your definition of comfort zone is a lot more loose than mine from the looks of it. You think the ability to score and pass qualifies, I’m not being broad, this is the difference between great and “best” that I am looking at. Until Kevin Love can become unpredictable in some way that has a significant impact on games, teams will be comfortable knowing he’s going to get his numbers, but won’t necessarily win.

  • Nick Holden

    Yeah he plays no defence cus he is white.. His defence is awesome. No excuse for his shooting though.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    he’s actually an above average defensive player

  • LakeShow

    “nbk: I’m not saying that it’s K-Loves fault that they lose…It’s just his fault that they lose…”

    You have made it clear you are biased against him.

    You have spoken nothing on how sh*tty his team is… Only on how sh*tty he is.

    “Love doesn’t command double teams” : Name three players that get more double teams than Love…?

    Blake Griffin goes unscathed because his team WON… by 4 points … in OT… with the 3rd best player on the planet orchestrating his team, and yet here you are b*tching about how Kevin Love’s 45-20-6 game isn’t special. And he needs to be a more versatile threat… And that he’s actually not a special passer….

    I just have no respect for your argument here.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    it’s probably because you are bad at reading.

    Here, let me say the same thing I said to your sensitive little buddy Conor over there,

    “It’s just a criticism. There is a criticism for every single player in the NBA. None of them are perfect. Love has to learn how to affect the game in a more significant way outside of the box score. How much more? idk. How much of his team being below .500 is on his teammates? most of it probably. But he’s still part of the team, and he’s still not perfect. So there are things he can improve on.”

    get it? he’s not perfect. get over it.

  • LakeShow

    Oh man, I wish I would have gone in on Lamarcus Aldridge last year…. lmao.

    Two-way street bud.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Lol so you also don’t remember what I said about Aldridge last year?

  • LakeShow

    Yeah, musta missed that.

  • Conor

    Thank you, LakeShow.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    1. The Pacers need to start scola over west. It’ll help out with the offense production in the start.

    2. Without westbrook, the thunder are in trouble. That’s the problem with these big 3 teams. too much risk

    3. Love has no excuse. Anyone that compares him to kevin garnett didn’t see garnetts team. Niko pevocic is putting numbers. Ricardo Rubio is a facilitating the offense. Garnett had nobody… marbury, terrell, spree, cassell, szerbiack, madsen????

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    true. He needs add that to his arsenal this summer. If im not mistaken they signed him to a franchise deal compared to love. Rubio also needs work on a post game to exploit the size mismatch he has with other guards. Cassell style pg play

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    I said that right now it’s fine, but explain the 16 5 5 last playoffs. long run long run

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Ugh…he was actually hurt. It wasn’t arthritis, he was injured. You can be as arrogant as you want, but you can’t act like predicting an injury is possible, and guess what? Evan Turner is sitting right now because of “knee soreness” …. So that’s not a good sign, you know, considering the whole age gap issue …. But here, this should put Evan Turner in perspective for you, http://www.csnphilly.com/basketball-philadelphia-sixers/evan-turner-suffering-right-knee-soreness

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    http://thekevinburkeproject.com/2013/06/dwyane-wade-is-suffering-from-chronic-arthritis-in-knee/

    When someone is diagnosed with arthritis compared to a knee soreness that’s two different issues completely.

    Why is arrogance being thrown around. Arrogance is unmerited. I have demonstrated merit.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Because in general, you, like me, come off as arrogant about your opinion.
    And I realize that, but your concern about Arthritis and Dwyane Wade is that Spoelstra “runs his guys ragged” – when you have proof that Turner can’t even deal with heavy minutes during the regular season without suffering from soreness severe enough to need rest. Every one of your concerns about Wade is pretty mitigated if the worse and younger of the two players can’t make it through the grind of 2 months of the regular season without needing a rest.

  • LakeShow

    You just named three 20ppg scorers and All-Stars as the reason why Garnett’s team was worse than Love’s squad that is without either….

    What’s your point about “Without westbrook, the thunder are in trouble.”

    No offense, but DUH…

    That’s like saying, “The Rocket’s are in trouble without Harden.”
    Or “the Blazers are in trouble without Damien Lillard.
    Or “the Knick’s are in trouble without Tyson Chandler”…

    DUH….

    And no, the Pacers don’t need to start Scola over West. That’s silly.
    You don’t change your rotation when you have one of the best records in the L.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    I won’t continue this discussion. The comment spolestra runs his guys ragged during their defensive and offesnive sets is met to show a factor in contributing to wade’s ailments.

    Turner needing a rest from knee soreness with unspecified etiology isn’t really worrisome. But my ultimate position still stands if the Heat want to win 2-3 more rings Wade will have to go whether its for turner or some other sg.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    That’s an awful long not continuation of this discussion there captain contradiction

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    “You just named three 20ppg scorers and All-Stars as the reason why Garnett’s team was worse than Love’s squad that is without either….” They were all stars just like mo williams and zydrunas (in case of LBJ) but that doesn’t mean they are effective, beneficial, complementary pieces to the franchise player in winning. I know what I put for a reason. I’ve noticed too much emphasis on quantitative data but obvious observations will tell you that cassell, spree, wally weren’t the pieces garnett needed to get over the hump. The management failed to surround him with appropriate pieces. If garnett was replaced for rasheed wallace on the blazers… the lakers wouldn’t have three peated.

    What’s your point about “Without westbrook, the thunder are in trouble. If wade is knocked out, lebron and bosh can still get the team to the ECF. If westbrook goes out, Durant and Ibaka can’t make it out of the first round of the playoffs. Westbrook may not be as talented as durant but his value is equal to durant.

    “And no, the Pacers don’t need to start Scola over West. That’s silly. You don’t change your rotation when you have one of the best records in the L.” Having the best L doesn’t necessarily mean the team has reached it highest potential. It maybe be better than the competition but in terms of its own potential I don’t think Vogel has experimented enough to get the max out of his team. Plus when playoffs come, the pacers lack of offensive firepower in the initial stage of the game will be exposed by a team like the Heat.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    i was stating my final position/rebuttal maybe if i edited the first line and shifted it to the bottom it would be more logical.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Who’s knows, maybe. Maybe if you shifted it to that next comment? Or maybe the one after this?

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    clowning

  • Mike From Spain

    Ricky Rubio has some defense, he’s above average on that end of the court. Other than this nit to pick, I agree on all the rest of your comment.

  • Mike From Spain

    I think that if you put up 45/19/6, you must feel too gassed to play hard defense in every possession. If he could take less of a burden offensively, or less minutes because his team would not implode horrifically when he’s not on the court, then he could probably play a consistent effort every possession. Then we could really judge him on that end. As a contrast, KG gave it his all on the defensive end, then he was accused of choking in the final minutes of games (it is a true story, great players on small teams are usually accused of the woes of the team instead of being thanked for lessening them). Of course, the dude was completely gassed and could not attack as well as in the first minutes, it is only natural.

  • Mike From Spain

    Does it matter whether he plays defense or not, if he just destroys his opposition at the other end of the court? If he outscores his counterpart by a large margin, I guess it is on the rest of the team to keep up with him. I don’t think that the issue with the Wolves is Kevin Love’s defense. I think that the issue is that he needs one or two more shooters, preferably one in the starting line-up and another from the bench (Kevin Martin was supposed to adress this, but he’s not playing too consistently as of late), a SF that can dribble, and a PG (I am a huge Rubio fan but…) who can score 10-15 in an efficient fashion (a three or two, 5 free throws, a couple of lay ins) night in night out. That, and play the rotations right. It is not Kevin Love’s fault that the perimeter defense allows threes and that Adelman’s defensive scheme does not disrupt the pick and roll as it should. Pek not being a shot blocker also hurts, but not only he does not block shots, he’s also not too good rotating.

  • Mike From Spain

    CP3 is #2 or #3 in my book, but Love is somewhere in the top 10.

    Question: If you trade Love for Durant (and make some adjustments due to their teams being a bit differently constructed around them), which team wins more? If you trade Love for Griffin or Love for CP3, which teams wins more? If you trade Love for LMA, which teams wins more?

  • Mike From Spain

    he’s a beast if you gameplan around him and he still pours 45 and 6 assists on you, on a reasonably efficient fashion, all while putting all of your front court in foul trouble. He’s not a ball stopper either.

  • Mike From Spain

    Minnesota are losing because Love is not superhuman?

    I think the answer is more, they are losing because Rubio shoots like crap, Martin does not defend and is inconsistent, Brewer can’t shoot and does not rotate on defense, Pekovic is a sub-par defender and cannot really pass it well, and the bench is just bad.

  • Max

    Good luck with the team chemistry telling DWest, the heart and soul of that team to come of the bench.

  • Conor

    Very fair.

    If the Clippers traded Griffin for Love, you could pencil them into the Finals immediately.

    If the Thunder traded Durant/Perkins for Love, their fortunes would not dim.

    Portland gives up a lot of points, too, so exchanging Aldridge for Love wouldn’t hinder their present outlook greatly.

    Lillard, Matthews, Batum, Love, Lopez, & Wright sounds like an equally formidable top six to me.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    how do you read this,

    ” How much of his team being below .500 is on his teammates? most of it probably.”

    and then respond with this,

    “Minnesota are losing because Love is not superhuman?”

    PLEASE DON’T RESPOND TO ME IF YOU DON’T ACTUALLY READ WHAT I SAY

    thank you.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i never once said “the issue with the Wolves is Kevin Love’s defense”

    Kevin Love’s defense isn’t good. Every other player on the team has more glaring issues. All of them, from Kevin Love to Dante Cunningham, ALL OF THEM, have improving to do.

    stop taking me replying to other people as blanket statements about the Timberwolves. the day i blame everything on Kevin Love (or anything for that matter…all i’m doing is pointing out why he’s not a “top 3 player” if focusing on context is so difficult, maybe a reminder will do it) is the day you guys can start acting like i’m crazy. but today/yesterday, wasn’t that day..

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    - Durant’s team wins more
    - The Clippers win more
    - The Love for CP3 trade would hurt both teams equally
    - Portland wins more.

  • AndyK415

    Yup exactly. It’s been very discouraging to watch game after game.

  • AndyK415

    Stated the all the Wolves’ problems to a T. Beautifully stated.

  • AndyK415

    Rubio’s shot just looks so awful.

  • Mike From Spain

    A good point to check would be what’s the win shares/48 of a typical top three player’s supporting cast, and compare that to Love’s Timberwolves. If the typical supporting cast is better, then you could reserve judgement about Love until he’s got an equivalent supporting cast.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Nah, I can point out weaknesses no matter how good a supporting cast is. Thanks though.

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