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Monday, January 20th, 2014 at 11:00 am  |  182 responses

Charles Barkely Calls Today’s NBA Teams ‘Girly’

Hall of Famer Charles Barkley, to no one’s surprise, thinks his era of basketball was much better and tougher than today’s League. Sir Charles thinks the game has turned “girly”, which is something too stupid and offensive to say, even for someone like Barkley. Per Maxim:

How do you think your teams in the ’80s and ’90s would fare today? “We’d kill these little girly teams they’ve got today. Come on. The Miami Heat, the best team today, they make Roy Hibbert look like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.”

When LeBron, Melo, D-Wade, and Bosh were all on the court together in the playoffs, people said the ’03 draft was the best ever. How do you compare it to yours in ’84? “I like our draft class better, to be honest. No disrespect to those guys; they’re all terrific players. They have LeBron, who is a once-in-a-lifetime player, but we had Michael Jordan, Hakeem Olajuwon, John Stockton. But any discussion about this stuff is dictated by LeBron James, because he’s just special.”

Do you think he could go down as the best ever? Jordan says he would have taken LeBron one-on-one. “I haven’t put LeBron past Kobe Bryant yet. He’s won a couple of rings, and now everybody is trying to compare him to Michael, who won six. What happened to Kobe? Kobe’s still got five. LeBron has to win three more championships before he’s in the Kobe Bryant class.”

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  • robb

    Girls are tough Charles.

  • will

    they aint

  • http://twitter.com/niQknacks niQ

    I guess Lebron will never be in Robert Horry’s class.

  • QTR

    No they aren’t. Women are. I love that this is called offensive but there’s a show about a bunch of worthless, selfish, shallow, materialistic, adult females on HBO called “Girls” and people love it…the same people who get offended by sayings like “you throw like a girl”.

  • pposse

    yet another person in basketball that values winning over stats any day.

  • http://twitter.com/niQknacks niQ

    Yep. By his logic, Barkley can’t even sniff Sun Yue’s class yet.

  • pposse

    “I haven’t put LeBron past Kobe Bryant yet. He’s won a couple of rings, and now everybody is trying to compare him to Michael, who won six. What happened to Kobe? Kobe’s still got five. LeBron has to win three more championships before he’s in the Kobe Bryant class.”

  • JJ Jones

    Charles is right the media is trying to erase kobe from existence and its wrong with the amount of work this man has dedicated to the game.

  • JJ Jones

    Pau gasol and chris bosh are all you need to see to tell that he ain’t lying.

  • ARISE CHICKEN

    what a grumpy old man.

  • Slick Ric

    He got a point when he says the Heat make Roy look like a beast offensively though. lol….Everything else is foolish, Lebron has surpassed Kobe, he doesn’t need Five rings, Hakeem and Shaq are greater players IMO with less rings. KD is a once in a lifetime type talent to me, The dude is damn near 7’0 and he plays like a Guard, he’s also becoming more versatile.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    the game is different. bigs in Barkley’s day would eat Bigs today. But the perimeter, specifically the defenders (on average, Scottie Pippen doesn’t represent everyone) would get ROASTED by todays perimeter players. I prefer the higher end talent in the 90s, but as a whole, the players today are better, and the game is considerably more complex.

  • Bradster

    I love how you went on a tangent displaying your women hate issues on a basketball blog. Calm down. Go deal with your rejection issues in therapy.

  • Dagger

    “Hey guys, there’s an HBO show about girls being useless, I guess they must all be useless, right?”

    Idiotic reasoning.

  • QTR

    That’s your reasoning not mine genius. Try again.

  • QTR

    Women hate issues? I’m responding to the line written by the SLAM writer about the statement being offensive. You guys sure are sharp.

  • Reality

    I know right? Because 3 of Kobe’s championships didn’t come with the best big man since Hakeem, who happened to be Finals MVP. We all know that can’t be a reason why Lebron has 3 less championships than Kobe. In Barkely’s universe, Lebron also had prime Shaq dominate to 3 rings.

  • pposse

    cause all of Lebron’s rings didn’t come with a top 5 PF talent and the top 1-2 sg in the game. You forgot to mention the counter in your world.

  • Bradster

    You responded to it by going off on a tangent. Just kinda sounds like a guy jumping at a chance to vent his female-focused frustrations. You have a problem with girls in general if the word itself prompted such strong emotions. Calm down.

  • QTR

    What are you talking about? Lol you came to the opposite conclusion of what I was saying.

  • scratch

    Robert Horry was a better player than Charles Barkley according to his own logic.

  • Reality

    And which one of those guys was more dominant than Shaq in his 3 peat with Kobe? And which championship did Kobe win without elite big men? Oh wait, none. The answer to both questions is none. As if Lebron would be ringless without the Shaq Kobe was blessed with early on smh. BTW, you do realize that same criteria you described almost matches the Bulls mid 90′s three-peat right?

  • Drig

    MJ played with the 2nd best perimeter player in the L and the best rebounder in the game AND had a solid bench.

    Magic had KAJ, Worthy and the rest of the Showtime cast when he won 5 rings.

    Larry Bird had Parish, McHale and Tiny when he won 3 rings.

    Shaq had Kobe and Wade at different points when he won 4 rings.

    TD always had an elite supporting cast (coach included ) to compensate for the lack of star power when he won 4 rings.

    Kobe had Shaq and Pau when he won 5 rings with a solid starting lineup and a pathetic bench for 3 of the rings.

    LeBron had Wade and Bosh for his 3 rings.

    Your reality is skewed.

  • QTR

    I was specifically referring to SLAM writer who called this offensive. The argument for political correctness is generally that the language we use influences how we think about things. I agree with that to a large extent.

    But the irony for me is that the use of “girl” or “girly” to negatively describe a male that is perceived as weak or soft seems to me to be less of an offense than to refer to and think of oneself as a girl whilst in your late 20s/early 30s (which is not limited to the show “Girls” but is a glaring example of too many females in my generation).

    I’m not a woman hater as Brad’s simple self thinks and I d*mn sure am not saying all females are useless as you ridiculously framed it.

  • Reality

    You can’t even tell me how many rings Lebron has and my reality is skewed? Please. You are really arguing that Kobe had an inferior supporting cast for 3 of his rings? The Shaq years? lol I can’t with this guy.

  • JJ Jones

    Who played best in the western conference to get to those finals? Kobe. Who was the closer? Kobe. Im so tired of revisionist history aside from the first ring kobe did not get carried he put up similar offensive numbers to shaq. The discrediting of what this man has done has got to stop it should be a sin to try and discredit him despite the work he’s put into the game I dont understand it

  • thebossman15

    Lebron hasnt surpassed kobe stop with that f*ckery..man i hate having to login to my account after reading the comments under these articles but goddam some of you people are so ignorant

  • JJ Jones

    How many playoff games has pau gasol won without kobe? No one today wouldn’t even know who he is without him.

  • Harvey

    Couldn’t agree more with the last part. LeBron hasn’t surpassed Kobe, and I don’t think he ever will. I could be wrong but…

  • Reality

    You cannot possibly talk about trying to discredit anything or anyone when nothing you or this posse guy posts is anything more than doing that with Lebron. I’m not even a Lebron fan and I see the irrationality of you guy’s hate.

  • thebossman15

    in what world is having allen,wade,and bosh who respectively are the best 3 point shooter,2nd best shooting guard, and top 3 PF before leaving toronto not equal to having shaq..

  • Reality

    Literally none of that makes any sense. Pau being the best player on a sh!tty team in a tough conference does not mean he was a no-name bum. That trade is known as one of the most one sided in NBA history for a reason. Did you just start watching the NBA or nah?

  • Reality

    LOL Ray Allen is a top 20 player in the league? And no, Wade and Bosh aren’t equal to having prime Shaq. Finals MVP. League MVP Shaq> Wade and Bosh.

  • Slick Ric

    No need for all the emotional sh!t, just explain your argument….

  • vinny gunz

    Ya’ll do realize that the typical Lebron haters are the only ones engaging this thread right? They get toasted on every Kobe-Lebron debate and they keep at it.

  • thebossman15

    who said allen was a top 20 player in the league though..i said he is the best shooter in nba history which is a fact and its certainly partially cuz of him lebron has his 2nd ring..bosh was a 20/10 guy,wade was a 25,5,5 guy and allen was a solid role player before teaming up in miami, the “lebron makes his teammates better” nonsense is what has clouded the opinions of others on players like wade and bosh..they simply look off bosh which makes him next to useless sometimes and d.wade is the main reason they win tough games epspecially in the 4th quarter however they are not used to their full abilities and that is why they dont get as much credit as they hardly get the ball, however its cuz of them lebron doesnt see nearly as much doubles as say shaq,kobe,mj. If you would rather have 1 extremely dominant player over 4 elite players, you are either a idiot or dont know anything about the game

  • Reality

    Going to have to repost since the moderators are incompetent f)uck ups who keep deleting my posts,

    Ray Allen is the best three point shooter today and last season? In what league? And yes Finals and league MVP Shaq is better than Wade and Bosh. You are delusional to think otherwise.

  • pposse

    dude Wade is easily in the top 5 discussion of best SG of all time! By my counts he is #3 behind MJ and Kobe. Arguments for Jerry West can be made but i dont know who else.

  • Madterps

    Robert Horry was better than MJ by winning logic. Bill Russell is the best of all time then.

  • pposse

    the game the Heat play is taylored to Lebron’s strengths. Even tho, mind you Wade was playing out of his mind in the finals against the Mavs in 2011…but who was it really that failed that series? That’s right, Lebron someone whom you don’t like clearly showed that he can only play one way while Wade had to tone down his game and take a back seat in order to win rings. No one will tell you the Mavs would beat the Heat in 2011, the main reason that occurred was cause Lebron failed def. not cause of wade.

    And MJ played alongside Pippen his whole career. Like training and competing with the best day in and day out wont get you better. ..

  • cbranson05

    lets not ignore that the NBA has essentially done what the NFL has, which is make the rules & game offense predicated! because its more appeasing to watch & brings in the casual fan. so when ppl compare now to decades ago, we’re talking a clear change in the way the game is played

  • pposse

    lmao Pau won exactly 0 playoff games without Kobe and the Lakers

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Jerry West is it (I have West as better, but it’s very debatable)

  • Slick Ric

    No argument? Just emotional reaction.

  • ARISE CHICKEN

    strong hypocrisy here

  • brothasdontsurf

    Just Turrrable

  • thebossman15

    wheres your argument..

  • Max

    What the hell?????

  • Reality

    Was Ray Allen the best shooter in the league last year? Is he the best shooter in the league this year? No? Then your point is irrelevant. You don’t see a difference between being a solid role player TODAY and being great in your past? Go watch soccer if basketball is too complex for you. Now you are arguing that it’s a myth Lebron’s made teammates better?’04 Finals never happened? You know, when he brought Mo Willaims and Co to the big dance? You are really questioning that Lebron was an elite player who carried his team prior to Miami? Sit down. You are rambling, semi-incoherently about Lerbon’s eliteness as a player, and it looks foolish.

  • Reality

    He was arguably the most skilled big in the league, as well as still being one of the best bigs in general. To debate that is stupid. Kobe didn’t make Pau the player he is. If you didn’t know about Pau prior to the Lakers then you have no business speaking about basketball ever.

  • pposse

    never ever did i say that. He gained winning tangibles by playing alongside Kobe. Stuff that can’t really be measured by stat data. And to be clear he was amongst the top 3 PF’s but KG and Duncan were clearly more skilled and overall better talents than Pau.

  • thebossman15

    Lol your just twisting my words.

    “Was Ray Allen the best shooter in the league last year?”

    He was definitely one of the best spot up shooters last year but regardless since you like to speak on the now, why bring up 04 lebron? Sure he made his teammates better back then but im not gonna elaborate on that because thats in the past and you clearly are a man of the present. Did lebron make bosh and d.wade better last year? Hell no. Bosh and wade for the last 2 years have been scrutinized more than they have in their entire careers.

    When tf did i say lebron wasnt an elite player before going to miami? you just make up a whole bunch of bs and elaborate on it.

    I clearly said:

    “If you would rather have 1 extremely dominant player over 4 elite players” i never said the dude wasnt elite, he just isnt kobe. Get off his nuts lol, literally half your argument was s*** you imagined me saying. Lebron thinks kobe is better than him, why dont you explain that?

  • thebossman15

    Lol your just twisting my words.

    “Was Ray Allen the best shooter in the league last year?”

    He was definitely one of the best spot up shooters last year but regardless since you like to speak on the now, why bring up 04 lebron? Sure he made his teammates better back then but im not gonna elaborate on that because thats in the past and you clearly are a man of the present. Did lebron make bosh and d.wade better last year? Hell no. Bosh and wade for the last 2 years have been scrutinized more than they have in their entire careers.

    When tf did i say lebron wasnt an elite player before going to miami? you just make up a whole bunch of bs and elaborate on it.

    I clearly said:

    “If you would rather have 1 extremely dominant player over 4 elite players” i never said the dude wasnt elite, he just isnt kobe. Get off his nuts lol, literally half your argument was s*** you imagined me saying. Lebron thinks kobe is better than him, why dont you explain that?

  • Cortez Mack

    “But the perimeter, specifically the defenders (on average, Scottie Pippen doesn’t represent everyone) would get ROASTED by today’s perimeter players.”

    Preach, brother, preach!

  • Junior Taylor

    I would seriously subscribe to a blog or site ran nbk. That is just how much respect I have for your knowledge of the game. While everyone seems to fall back on the “today’s players are inferior and soft compared to the 80s/90s” babble without providing evidence to back up their claims, you consistently debunk such myths with numbers and comments that only people who watch the L on a consistent basis would agree with.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    hey i really appreciate that man. still mulling the idea over

  • JJ Jones

    He wouldn’t be as relevant as he is now and you know it. Like I said if pau is so dominant why can’t he win ONE playoff game without kobe. Kobe being discredited is old. If were going to call gasol dominant then u might as well call chris bosh the same thing cause he really isnt any worse than gasol is. Scottie pippen is a better second option than gasol but just because he’s a big man (whos softer than charmin toilet paper)were going to discredit what kobe has done? Wow

  • JJ Jones

    Didnt u hear lebron came to miami to play with horrible teammates and will alone at least thats what espn seems to be implying lately

  • JJ Jones

    Ive have never hated or lied about anything regarding lebron. Hes one of the best to ever play but that doesnt mean that im going to act like he doesnt have his faults. All I said is that kobe doesnt get the credit he deserves and u bring up lebron WHY?

  • LakeShow

    I’d at least swing by to throw an egg.

  • JJ Jones

    Tell me one thing thst I’ve said thats been untrue and ill listen

  • LakeShow

    “LeBron had Wade and Bosh for his 3 rings”

    *2 rings*

    Never mind… lol

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    hey, maybe i’ll feature an egg of the week, so make sure you take some warm up throws

  • danpowers

    true. plus, there is much more force running up and down the court as players are way more athletic than back then.

    still, if you compare some unique characters from back then and today, it really looks like that league is lacking quite some “real men” stereotype / dinosaurs to make it more fun to watch. some more “dirt” would suit that league much better.

    it starts with flopping becoming fashionable and ends with fines for a big balls dance. the nba should backpedal from professionalizing guys trying to make them 24/7 role models and punish flopping much harder than they do now. plus, a little more play ons and less flagrant calls wouldnt hurt neither (except those who get hit lol)

  • TP

    With the big time NBA heads on this post, here’s a question: How would Pippen be viewed today if he’d received MVP in the 93-94 season over Hakeem…AND if Portland had beat LA in the West conf. Finals in 2000 and he had gotten ring #7? (because there’s no way that Portland would have lost in the Finals.)

  • 2chainz

    Shaq won 3 finals MVP’s during his Lakers run with Kobe so in essence Shaq did carry Kobe to those 3 titles and when Kobe had a bad team he either never made the playoffs are got ousted out of the first round and when he won titles as a first option his Lakers teams were surrounded with talent.

    LeBron has taken bad teams to the finals and won 66 games during his days as the only star with the Cavs and has multiple regular season awards and MVP’s and Finals MVP’s…LeBron is a much better player. Rings don’t tell the whole story.

  • JJ Jones

    Shaq always had the bigger mismatch in the finals while in the west he had to deal with the likes of Tim Duncan and other bits. Besides aside from gasol those 2009 2010 weren’t all that talented. Tell me what Odom, Bynum, Shannon brown, Ariz, and Luke walton (lol) have done on their own. Lebron won 66 games in a weak eastern conference come on. Kobe was one rebound away from upsetting the Phoenix suns in 2006y which probably would have been 2nd of the greatest accomplishments in nba history with that atrocious rosters TOUGH as the west was that year.

  • Tony Taylor

    Very true I look at Jordan who won with only solid big men not great hulks of men who would or could average 20 and 10 they were a tough team predicated on perimeter play much like Miami. Bulls were a better rebounding team though but I can argue that defensively they were bout even. Wade would be the determining factor, not because he is the best on the team but his health makes him a wild card. A healthy Wade with prime Bron would cause fits as would the reverse.

  • Tony Taylor

    Rodman and pipped both were two of the 50 best best players in that century. Both were perennial all stars and hall of fame players let’s cut the foolishness. Just because r neither ever dropped 25 ppg or won an mvp does not mean they were not elite. Scottie took the bulls to the ECF let’s be rational.

  • berkamore

    You have made that point quite a few times and by and large, I agree with you.

    However, if you want to be entirely rational here, you should also take into account the fact that players in Barkley’s day would probably be better than they were back then if they were playing today.

    Better nutrition, training methods, analytics so on and so forth. So if a guy playing in the 80s is much better than the guys playing today, we can safely say that he would be better than them if he was playing today. However, the opposite argument is tougher to make.

    How much of that is just the product of a better environment? (I grant you that some guys would do better or worse just because the style of play and the skills valued have changed but I trust that you get the gist of my argument)

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Like I said I prefer the top end talent from then. We can’t really know how they would translate to this era. Everything about their lives and role models would be different. It’s a huge can of worms. Plus the pool of players today is so much larger, it’s just too different. We can only go by what we have, and it doesn’t sound like Barkley is really thinking that deeply about this.

  • pposse

    Pip took that bulls team to the eastern conf. semifinals. And was also a malcontent staying on the bench cause Jackson didn’t call his number for a last second shot.

    For all the praise Lebron gets for making his teammates better MJ can’t get NO love for doing the exact same thing? Pip himself said in that USA bball documentary that he didn’t expect for himself to be invited to the Dream Team. Pip was awesome but its very debatable that he developed into the player he was without MJ. Even MJ back in the 80s challenged Pip and bulls management. Pippen used to get man handled and punked by the Pistons, then the same thing happened in to Pip in the finals against Barkley. Barkley literally shoved and abused Pip every play off the ball while getting his. I’m not saying Pippen is overrated, but MJ def had a bigger hand in Pips devlopment than a lot of people want to give him credit for.
    I have nothing for Rodman, Rodman was probably the best role player ever in the history of the game. if there was a 5 on 5 game with all the greats i’d want Rodman to be on one of the teams no doubt.

  • pposse

    top 10 all time

  • Jenny Nolan

    my&nbspbest&nbspfriend’s&nbspstep-aunt&nbspΜ­­­­­­а­­­­­­κ­­­­­­℮­­­­­­ѕ&nbsp$­­­­­­­64&nbspհ­­­­­­օ­­­­­­υ­­­­­­rly&nbspon&nbspthe&nbspl­­­­­­а­­­­­­р­­­­­­τ­­­­­­օ­­­­­­р.&nbspShe&nbsphas&nbspbeen&nbspwithout&nbspW­­­­­­օ­­­­­­r­­­­­­κ&nbspfor&nbspeight&nbspΜ­­­­­­օ­­­­­­ո­­­­­­τ­­­­­­հ­­­­­­ѕ&nbspbut&nbsplast&nbspΜ­­­­­­օ­­­­­­ո­­­­­­τ­­­­­­հ&nbspher&nbspcheck&nbspwas&nbsp$­­­­­­­12880&nbspjust&nbspW­­­­­­օ­­­­­­r­­­­­­κing&nbspon&nbspthe&nbspl­­­­­­а­­­­­­р­­­­­­τ­­­­­­օ­­­­­­р&nbspfor&nbspa&nbspϜ­­­­­­℮­­­­­­W&nbspհ­­­­­­օ­­­­­­υ­­­­­­rs.&nbspread&nbspthis&nbsparticle,…&nbspWW&#x57&#46Googleprojects2014rewindsaysrace&#x2E&#113&#114&#x2E&#110&#x65&#116&#47&#x6D&#x4Bl&#x6A/

    ♝♝♝ ♝♝♝♝♝ ♝♝ᜟ♝♝ ♝♝♝ ♝♝ᜑ♝♝I love that this is called offensive but there’s a show about a bunch of worthless, selfish, shallow, materialistic,

  • iceman

    true but that was the second three peat he won 3 bf rodman and his assistant coach’s and tex winters both give credit for him forming pip into the best perimiter player he became since he had to guard the best player in the world every practice.

  • Drig

    That was a typo……for now lol.

    Are you telling me that Shaq > Pippen+Rodman/Wade+Bosh+Depth/Worthy+Kareem/Parish+McHale???

    Again, Lakers had a solid team. Just like every other team that won.

    The only 2 players who can claim that they’ve won without a 2nd bonafide star are Hakeem and Dirk. End of.

  • Drig

    That was a typo……for now lol.

    Are you telling me that Shaq > Pippen+Rodman/Wade+Bosh+Depth/Worthy+Kareem/Parish+McHale???

    Again, Lakers had a solid team. Just like every other team that won.

    The only 2 players who can claim that they’ve won without a 2nd bonafide star are Hakeem and Dirk. End of.

  • Drig

    Using the same logic, why isn’t Kobe credited for making Pau mentally stronger?

    After all, minus Kobe, Pau never won a PO game.

  • Drig

    Using the same logic, why isn’t Kobe credited for making Pau mentally stronger?

    After all, minus Kobe, Pau never won a PO game.

  • Drig

    How many championships did MJ win without a dominant wing?

    Infact, how many championships did MJ win without Pippen?

    Your argument is idiotic. Every player needs a certain team makeup in order to maximize his abilities.

    And it’s not like Jordan’s teams had slouches as bigs in their championship runs.

  • Drig

    How many championships did MJ win without a dominant wing?

    Infact, how many championships did MJ win without Pippen?

    Your argument is idiotic. Every player needs a certain team makeup in order to maximize his abilities.

    And it’s not like Jordan’s teams had slouches as bigs in their championship runs.

  • berkamore

    Got you. I didn’t even think about the huge influx of international players into the League which is another crucial difference from Chuck’s era. Chuck is just talking s…to get people worked up. LOL.

  • berkamore

    Got you. I didn’t even think about the huge influx of international players into the League which is another crucial difference from Chuck’s era. Chuck is just talking s…to get people worked up. LOL.

  • Drig

    Marc Gasol. Look it up.

    Plus, the Grizz didn’t make that trade to get better talent. They made the trade to tank, get great draft prospects AND save money.

    I’d say they did pretty well with the trade.

  • Drig

    Marc Gasol. Look it up.

    Plus, the Grizz didn’t make that trade to get better talent. They made the trade to tank, get great draft prospects AND save money.

    I’d say they did pretty well with the trade.

  • Drig

    For now………lol

  • Drig

    For now………lol

  • Drig

    Shaq was the Finals MVP. Yes.

    But Kobe killed it en route to the Finals and held his own vs Shaq in 01 and 02. Pity there’s no playoff MVP.

    When Kobe had a bad team, the West was at its peak and the East was at its absolute worst.

    The year the Lakers didn’t make the POs, Kobe and Odom ( the 2 best players ) were injured for different stretches of the season and I think our coach resigned mid-season.

    Shaq never won without talent. Neither did MJ. Nor Magic. Nor Bird.

    Why is it that NOBODY intelligent criticizes them for the same? Because they know its a team game and Kobe held his own for 4 of the rings. The first ring Kobe won I concede he was the 2nd option clearly but not the other two.

  • Drig

    Shaq was the Finals MVP. Yes.

    But Kobe killed it en route to the Finals and held his own vs Shaq in 01 and 02. Pity there’s no playoff MVP.

    When Kobe had a bad team, the West was at its peak and the East was at its absolute worst.

    The year the Lakers didn’t make the POs, Kobe and Odom ( the 2 best players ) were injured for different stretches of the season and I think our coach resigned mid-season.

    Shaq never won without talent. Neither did MJ. Nor Magic. Nor Bird.

    Why is it that NOBODY intelligent criticizes them for the same? Because they know its a team game and Kobe held his own for 4 of the rings. The first ring Kobe won I concede he was the 2nd option clearly but not the other two.

  • JJ Jones

    Thank u. Someone who isnt ignorant and actually knows what they’re talking about instead of just repeating the same myths that others have said.

  • JJ Jones

    Thank u. Someone who isnt ignorant and actually knows what they’re talking about instead of just repeating the same myths that others have said.

  • Pok

    One more thing to consider could be the technology and science we have today as compared to in the past. I believe their impact are positive for today’s player. Equipment, how to eat right, physical training and mechanics training etc. These give today’s player an edge over those of the past I think.

  • Ivan L

    the same top sg that averaged a cool 16 a game in last years playoffs while the top 5 pf put up 12 a game

  • Ivan L

    how many did kobe win between shaq and gasol?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Haha, I’m sure he believes it. It’s only natural that he would be nostalgic about “his” era. I’m sure the guys from Bill Russell and Oscar Robertsons era think every player to ever play after the 70s to be completely coddled. They had it the roughest by a huge margin, and their games were much more physical

  • pposse

    yes. But let me add to that …the same SG who averaged something like 22 5 5 and the same PF who averaged like 17 and 7 (both shooting 50% or better) during the regular season which ultimately you know got them the #1 seed which ultimately gave the heat two game 7s at home. And dont forget the 3 eye popping games for Wade in the finals..yeah those two guys

  • TR

    The game has changed a lot over the years, but I’ve always felt that a lot of players from the late 80s/early 90s could probably still find a way to play in the league today.

  • davidR

    rick barry!

  • Hillbilly

    Ja, ja, ja…der round mound ist right! Today’s NBA players are soft and flabby like a newly born baby’s buttocks. They are nothing more than pathetic girly men. Listen to me now and believe me later, if Charles Oakley were playing today, he would very easily lift Pau Gasol by his skinny ankles and use his scruffy Euro beard as a backscratcher.

  • BE.water

    07 finals, if you’re going to try to be an ass.

  • havoc33

    Now this is where you show your ignorance. I’d like to point out that Kobe, not Shaq, was consistently playing the better basketball in both the 2001 and 2002 playoffs until Shaq feasted on the weaker teams in the Finals (which was also by design by the way). On those Laker teams Kobe was their best defender and floor leader in the clutch. And he was always been a superb passer and playmaker. He, alongside Shaw, was the only one who could consistently feed Shaq with great passes in the post (a forgotten skill in todays game).

    Shaq was overall the most dominant force in the league during the threepeat (in 2000 he was in shape and had a season for the ages), but let us not overlook the fact the he had his fair share of flaws. Terrible freethrow shooter, which made him exploitable in the clutch. Terrible pick&roll defender, which opposing teams took full advantage of. Tex Winter, who should know better than most, had his fair share of fights with Shaq over what he perceived as a lack of dedication on the defensive end, consistently messing up their defensive rotations. He is quoted as saying he wanted to expose Shaq “as a fraud”. Pretty harsh words right there.

    As for 2005-2007, Drig already explained that pretty well under here. 2005 season was ruined due to injuries/coaching change. 06 and 07 the Lakers actually overachieved. No one picked them to make the Playoffs in 06, as the West were loaded and the Lakers roster was totally crap. Besides Odom, Kobe had Smush, Kwame and Mihm to go to battle with. Do we really need to say more?

    Lebron is a great player, but Chuck is right; Kobe is still ahead of him in the rankings. If you wanna discredit Kobe for riding Shaq’s tailcoats then you can just as easily discredit Lebron for playing in a far, far weaker conference his entire career, and for ultimately gutting the talent pool in his OWN conference and teaming up with two perennial allstars in their prime to take the easy route to the Finals.

  • BBaller

    Nbk you are an awesome commentator here on Slam but you’re only 26 , you have never seen The logo play or know any realistic justification of his ability. Just saying, btw I’m one of the oldest slamily, but as I said props to you on current players

  • BBaller

    To prove my point who can remember a commentator named white hot eboy? It goes back to 2001

  • Fitzy

    I feel as though the defenders is more of an apples and oranges issue now. Back in the 80s and 90s you could hand check which certainly helped the defence and teams were allowed to camp their big man in the middle of the key to force perimeter players to shy away. I’d have to say it’d depend on whose refs we played the matchup with. The game is significantly different today than what it has been in the past.

  • JJ Jones

    This is a stupid question I already explained how kobe almost pulled off an upset with slush parker , Kwame Brown really. In fact in 2008 the lakers already HAD the #1 seed before gasol got there

  • Anthony

    Are you serious!?! A lot of mid 80s players would lock these young boys up! Gary Payton, Vinnie Johnson, Isaiah, “Sugar Ray” Richardson…hell even Larry Bird would probably lock up a LOT of the NBA perimeter players of today! Perimeter players today flop, or look for a foul too much…can’t touch’em, they shoot too poorly, rely too much on their athleticism, they don’t know how to move without the ball so ready for a corner 3. 80s/90s hoop would son these young boys…b/c more than probably they’re the road trip babies of these players anyway!

  • Anthony

    I call BS on this! We all know there is a definitive difference in championships when it comes to relative contribution. And in respect to that probably only 3 of t Big Shot’s chips should be counted the other ones are relagated to the “John Salley” rule. All 5 of Kobe’s count, all 6 of MJs and all of LBJs.

  • R32

    We’re forgetting that the OFFICIATING has tightened up since the 90′s. Refs arent allowing the players to play as physical.

  • russian guy

    People just overrate the ‘he was an NBA-player/legend’ part.Charles Barkley is NOT a 40 year old veteran who talks about his rookie season,he is part of the media for 10+ years now.Media members do what media members do:they create controversy.And don’t get me wrong,I love Charles Barkley the former player and the media member.He is just doing his job,so to critizise him has nothing to do with his accomplishments on the field.

  • Johnny

    hes mad cause he never won a ring LOL

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    actually, big men couldn’t camp, illegal defense was a huge deterrent to defenses being able to shade towards a great player. The hand checking rule, while definitely significant, had a much lesser affect on the game than that illegal defense rules did. it was easier to score in the 90s/80s/70s/60s then it is today.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    if i were 72 years and grew up outside of Los Angeles ….. would you let my opinion go?
    .
    it’s not like game film disappears. it’s not like stories disappear. i’m sure i’ve had more exposure to Jerry West then the vast majority of people who actually were alive when he was playing.

  • Chuck Da buck

    The nba today Is awful the players cry hen thy get a hard foul. It’s a joke not to mention the refs favor certain teams and certain players it doesn’t work all the time but the officials are responsible for who makes the playoffs and who wins most of the time sometimes a team can beat the refs but it takes a lot of perfect ball to do so. I really am starting to hate the league it’s so blatantly obvious how the officials give superstar players the calls and let certain teams play more physical cause of reputation it makes u think how come more players and analyst don’t come out and complain more. I know players get big fines but it should be a huge conversation just like players cheating in other leagues its basically the same thing the refs are giving huge advantages too certain teams and players because they are popular. In know sport should refs make calls because of who u are or what a certain teams reputation is all players and teams should be officiated the exact same way and until that happens the nba will be fixed by the refs and the higher ups to make the game more and more popularity and money.

  • Deborah Lewis

    The players are certainly not girly, but certainly “street ball” was tougher….but that is why we have refs strictly enforcing the game now….less injuries. It may make it appear to him that it is more girly because the hard-knock street ball games are not in play.

  • Luther R Clark

    Sadly, I have to agree with Charles… LOL !!!

  • http://sportschump.net SportsChump

    Barkley might be right to an extent but one can’t help but wonder how much recent rules changes have led to the increased ‘girliness’ of the league.

  • Busta213

    Also (cant remember which show it was on), recently someone mentioned the newer generations have an advantage compared to yester-year when it comes to studying moves – e.g. you can break down your favorite player’s game/moves on youtube until youve figured it out.

  • Matthew Ford

    Barkley’s comments are dead on!

  • Eric Matterson

    You can blame the Brawl in the Palace for the softness of the present NBA. The league has cracked down on most of the physicality because they are so concerned about having a repeat.

  • Eric Matterson

    You could make the same argument about all sports. Football and Baseball players are much bigger and stronger than in the 80s-90s (Baseball didn’t have a PED problem in the 80s)

  • Eric Matterson

    Big O and BRussell were trail-blazers for the AAmerican athlete.

  • LakeShow

    lol…

    PG: Harper – 6’6″ tall, One of the best perimeter defenders in the L and a great rebounder with size at the PG position.

    SG: MJ – Nuff said

    SF: Pippen- The best wing defender in the L, and one of the most versatile players ever. Could play any position.

    PF: Rodman- The greatest rebounder of all time.

    Yeah… Pippen and Rodman are just “solid big men”….

    No Miami does not even get close to sniffing them defensively.

    You IDIOT…. No offense.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    definitely

  • berkamore

    Not only sports but many areas of life. Yesterday I rewatched a movie on Netflix that I remembered fondly. Christ, I could barely finish it. By today’s standards, it was, to quote Charles, “turrible”

  • Ronald Mitchell

    Charles is right! People (Wimp fans) today complained when Bynum knock Jose Juan Barea on his azz for talking mess. Charles Oakley Maurice Lucas, and Nate Thurmond among others would have sent his azz to the floor also. They would tell his little azz not to come in to the land of the giant and if he did he would be punished.

  • king fan

    to say LeBron isn’t as good as someone because of championships is silly first and foremost players can’t help what franchises they get drafted to Kobe came into the league with Shaq big head start if I would say so its not an excuse but just reality Wade got one ring with a old shaq LeBron just got two with Wade while getting old and slowly falling off people’s perspective of Kobe would be a lot different if he stay with Charlotte not to say it was Kobe’s choice to get traded on drafted day so to measure people by Championship is crazy I don’t hear too many people laughing when it comes to jordan being better than Bill Russell because that’s how he took care of business so if LeBron that drafted to a better franchise he’d probably have more rings and I’m from Cleveland and it hurts to say that

  • charles

    so where is barkley at the bottom he has no rings and I like barkley. LeBron is twice as good as kobe lebro was the man on all his rings kobe was the man twice on his five rings. LeBron had basically nothing in cleveland took them to the championship a small market team unheard of except AI but not a small market

  • brothasdontsurf

    Bill Russell IS one of the best of all time though.

  • charles

    jr back in the day you had 100 guys go out for the basketball team, today you may get 20 going out for the team, back in the day you had hand checking and no three point line and it was not a lot of wasted motions, ie dribbling and holding the ball til you can get a shot of. may this can help the 80′s argument

  • keyser

    I disagree with the premise that newer hand checking rules have less impact than illegal defense changes. Getting past your initial defender is the most critical part of any drive. You eliminate a player immediately from the equation. You can hit a floater over the big, dish when the big commits or if you’re LeBron or MJ just dunk over them or create contact and a foul. Aside from the fact that fouls in the 80s & 90s were ferocious while today the Knicks & Pistons of that era would all finish with 6 flagrant fouls. I’m not saying players today couldn’t adapt to that but the contact impacts penetration and drives much greater than the illegal defense.

  • Michael

    I concur with Chuck!

  • I Know Ball

    Well, Barkley, with you using rings as a benchmark for talent, then you have a long ways to go to dual Bob Horry 😜

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    it’s not a debate. it’s proven, the illegal defense rule had the bigger impact on offensive production.
    .
    and fouls happen less now. stop believing what everyone tells you, and actually look at facts.

  • Michael Kennedy

    I don’t agree, the players are more selfish and play individually. It was a team game in the past and they move the ball around to a lot more than all this isolation and one on one ball.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    There is less isolation now. More passing. Less turnovers. It’s never been more of a team sport than it is now.

  • bullfrog

    Pete Maravich is still the king in my book.

  • Eggerton

    Well you still have players that arnt the pothetic players in the NBA such as Ray Allen, Kevin Garnett, Paul pierce, Tim Duncan, tony Parker, Manu ginobili, Steve Nash, koby bryant, these are also some players that enjoy the game to when some just care about the money. Like also probably lebron James is the most talented in the NBA right now but he also flops like crazy and is always complaining to the refs, when they didn’t do it in, 80 and 90′s. But you can not judge who’s better because the game is so much different from back then.

  • Michael Kennedy

    something’s are a matter of fact, the evidence speaks for it self. I doubt that either of these teams today could ever play against such physical teams such as the Detroit piston or Boston Celtics, That is why there is no one that compares to Michael Jordan because he had the courage will and killer instinct to challenge these guys before they came up with all this women style basketball.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    There is no other player in league history that happened to play in the wrong era more than Pistol. Man if I could just grab one player from the past and supplant him in today’s game it’d be Maravich.

  • Michael Kennedy

    You can study all you want too, but you can never figure out another players moves. That’s like saying you know what he is going to do before he does it.

  • Michael Kennedy

    I agree old school, It more about a team sport than one individual go to guy, and hand checking and all of that was part of the game.

  • Michael Kennedy

    True!

  • Michael Kennedy

    The best way to reply to that question: He didn’t so all the possibilities mean nothing.

  • Michael Kennedy

    I would not say it helped the defense, I the hand check because I could feel where you were to anticipate my next move.

  • charles

    mk not saying that the 2000 ball players could not play back in the day but it was much tougher to score then, I am 50+ and still hoping we have some young guys play with us from 18 to 35 and they are terrible and selfish

  • Michael Kennedy

    I don’t get off on all that better nutrition, training methods. If you are an athlete none this matters, its what in your heart and the attitude you bring to the game.

  • Michael Kennedy

    I agree.

  • Michael Kennedy

    There is no debate over LeBron, First of all LeBron needs wade to win. He nor Kobe can carry a team way Michael Jordan did, they don’t have the killer instinct.

  • Michael Kennedy

    I don’t think its about erasing Kobe, but he has Shaq to thank also because he carried the Lakers in the early years. Kobe never won an MVP as long as Shaq was there.

  • Michael Kennedy

    Brother you took the words out of my mouth, well said:

  • Michael Kennedy

    absolutely on point.

  • Michael Kennedy

    Its the ones pau gasol won for the Lakers that count. Before they got him Kobe was asking to be traded don’t forget! He benefitted Kobe more than the other scenario. Who has Kobe ever made better! Lets keep it real.

  • Michael Kennedy

    First of all Kobe has no popularity and no one cares to play with him because of his selfishness. Kobe certainly would not have those other rings without gasol and Bynum.

  • Michael Kennedy

    I agree everything seems to on gasol since they are losing, but look at the trades by management because he was the best big man when they were winning.

  • I Know Ball

    Barkley, if you Areoing to use rings as a benchmark for talent then you are nearly as good as Bob Horry. 😜

  • Michael Kennedy

    What does almost mean, either it is or isn’t almost don’t count. The derogatory comments Kobe about slush parker, I cannot respect him as a man. Even the thing he did to implement Shaq in his troubles with the law.

  • Michael Kennedy

    I agree, pippin was overrated. He was nothing without Michael, not only did the Detroit pistons and Charles Barkly handle and punk him. zavier McDaniel’s owned him when ever they played Seattle. He could not help Portland in the play offs after he left the bulls.

  • Michael Kennedy

    If Kobe ever makes anyone better let me know!

  • Michael Kennedy

    First fact is LeBron got a ring with wade, wade already had one.

  • Michael Kennedy

    I disagree, I have always been a fan of jerry west. They called him Mr. clutch for a reason. but he never had wade up side and skills inside out. wade wins this hands down in my book, thou I respect your opinion, I would take west over bird.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    everytime someone argues that Dwyane Wade was the better all around player it confuses me.

    Shooter: West
    Passer: West
    Defender: ? (i say West, most people don’t even have an idea, so they just assume it’s Wade) –> just for those interested: http://hardwoodparoxysm.com/archive/2012/02/26/paroxysmal-pursuit-estimating-jerry-wests-career-steals/
    Post Player: Wade
    Athlete: Wade
    Around the Rim Skills Offense: Wade
    Around the Rim Skills Defense: Wade

    it’s debatable who was better. it’s debatable who the better overall player was.

  • Telcontar

    People keep forgetting that fouls are called way too much, especially Techs and the defence has been considerable restricted. Who noes how players today would play if the rules weren’t so different. We might see much more aggressive players as they will be forced to play that way. You can’t call out today’s players when they get Ts for even looking the wrong way at someone else, or laughing at a reff.

  • JJ Jones

    Didnt chris paul file a lawsuit when he realized that he wouldn’t get to play with kobe. And what the he’ll have gasol and bynum done without kobe. Gasol has never won a play of game without him and bynum was a damn role player for their back to back rings. In fact when u look at the most recent championship teams kobe along with Dirk probably carried the least amount of talent to a championship (s) Dont be ignorantIr

  • JJ Jones

    Yeah pau the guy who never won a playoff game without kobe. And u talk about keeping it real just admit that u personally hate kobe and be done with it.

  • JJ Jones

    Who cares if u respect him as a man? Was he wrong? Where is smush parker now?Like it or not he’s one of the most successful athletes in the league and one of the 10 greatest to ever play because unlike smush he worked for it. U can’t even respect that because of some bs that happened 10 years ago? Let it go kobe cheated just about every athlete has he’s just the one that got caught. Some w**’re screams rape and people are too stupid to figure out that she was just after money. I dont see anyone killing d wade over his baby mama drama. Even if u dont like him as a man at least respect the amount of work that he put into being the best that he could be.

  • JJ Jones

    Lets see players who’s careers have gone no where without him shannon brown Trevor Ariza Andrew bynum. Players that have improved since coming to the lakers Wesley Johnson and nick young.

  • Mister Avalon

    I dunno Nbk… I’ve put much thought into this. I think it’s fair to say today’s bunch are superior athletes in some respects (LBJ,Durant) but I think it’s more valid to say post 2000s it’s a time of wings and guards play, whereas Pre 2000 is was an age of bigs. In bball size matters.
    If they were matched in their prime I gotta fave the 90s guys. C’mon, if prime Mutomo played today he would be a top 3 player. It would be LBJ, Durant and Mutumbo.

    Imagine how Hakeem would fair?
    Hell, even prime Barkley would lead the league in scoring AND rebounding.
    SMH

  • Mister Avalon

    Beware the ides of march, friend

  • Mister Avalon

    hell yeah

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Lol I agree that the league is more perimeter oriented but then you said that bit about Dikembe…smh, no. .
    Barkley would lead the league in scoring and rebounding? Stop.

  • Mister Avalon

    I spit when people use him in the same sentence as Rubio. Rubio can eat the mans shorts (or socks)

  • Mister Avalon

    What? Sorry man. Disagree. Driving the lane with Mutumbo/Shaq/Robinson/Ewing/Wallace/Mourning there made shots a whole lot harder. Your stats may disagree. But those guys TOTALLY intimidated anyone game enough to rove the paint.
    And don’t give me there weren’t excellent spot up shooting guards/smll forwards. Mark Price was a killer. Kevin Johnson. Mullins, Majerle, McGrady
    90 bball hands it to bball these days.
    Today, – Where the best player in the game gets knocked over by 6’1 DJ Augustin in game one ECF…

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Bro you said Mutombo would be a top 3 player. I hate to break it to you but that’s flat out ridiculous. Ugh he’d be a great defender just like he was. Probably worse actually considering he’s have to defend the pick and roll. Offensively he was sh*tty then, he’d be sh*tty today. .
    And sure, there was SOME great great shooters. Now? There are a bunch. Literally nothing supports the idea that players from any one era would be better than another, playing this game of pretend to act like the gene pool of potential basketball players as a whole as thinned out despite the sport growing exponentially as a whole is dumb. Like i said somewhere else on this page, I do prefer the top end talent of the 90s, but today’s game and players as a whole is more advanced. Disagree if you need to, but don’t use some subjective reasoning that is wholly dependent on everyone sharing the same imagination.

  • Pok

    Not saying studying the moves to figure out what they’re gonna do next. It’s just learning the moves from past players to add on to one’s repertoire.

    Kinda like a short cut. Players in the past have to spend time figuring them out. Players these days kinda like monkey see monkey do. If it works, I’m doing it.

  • Drig

    Not sure if that was sarcasm but if it wasn’t, Ariza and Odom for starters.

  • Armando

    KJ a spot up shooter? eh…

  • Busta213

    Yes thats what I meant. Theres are tons of pro tips, training routines etc available in an instant these days.

  • Busta213

    Thats like saying there is no value in scouting an opponent, but elite players watch tape on both themselves and opponents, dont they?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    lol, am i Caesar?

  • Wyatt Kittle

    The NBA will continue to get better and better, because players are not retiring at the same rate new players are being drafted, thus only the best players are being kept, thus improving the league.

  • Eric Matterson

    Yeah, the quality of life has declined tremendously. Music, movies, cars, politicians, etc… all have gotten worse over time.

  • Madterps

    Maybe, I just wonder how well will Bill Russell do in the 90s or 00s if he had to go up against 30 teams instead of the weak 8 or 10 teams they had back then.

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