August 31, 2009 8:00 am  |  160 Comments

Top 50: Jameer Nelson, no. 48

The definitive ranking of the NBA’s best players.

by Tzvi Twersky

Growing up a few miles from Hawk Hill, I never really had a chance. Saint Joseph’s University (PA) and I were too close not to be close.

Truth is, my connection to SJU goes further and deeper. In their day, the Hawks were a major team, one that attracted top-level talent. In 1971 that talent went by the name of Mike Bantom. BJameer Nelsonantom was nice on the court, so nice he represented the USA in the Olympics and was the 8th overall pick in 1973. That’s how he came to be written about for a major publication by a close relative of mine. Add that SJU connect to the fact that I grew up ballin’ on the same team as another ex-Hawks’ son, and, again, I had no chance. And that’s how I first came across Jameer Nelson.

When Meer was young and still in high school, local cats used to whisper about the prodigy. Based on the trickle of talk that fell my way, I was picturing this 6-2 pg created by God strictly to dribble the rock and crack unworthy defenders. So when I saw him on local TV during his senior year at Chester, I was surprised as hell—dude was 5-11 and chubby. That couldn’t be the Meer I was hearing all the talk about. Hell no! A little less than two hours and four quarters later, I was a believer: Jameer may have had a body like Beanie Sigel (OK, it wasn’t that bad) but he had the heart of Hercules.

After that game, I didn’t see or hear about Nelson for a good couple of summer months. Just when he was slipping out of my consciousness, word came down before the start of the ‘01 college season that he had signed with the Hawks and would be suiting up as a frosh that campaign. That’s when Jameer earned the right to have his picture cut out of the Philadelphia Inquirer and put up on my door, next to those of Allen Iverson, Freeway and the 1980 Phillies team.

I remember a few things from Nelson’s first season on Hawk Hill. For one, I remember him standing out as the best pg in the A-10…recall, I’m talking about freshman year. That Hawks squad captured the city’s full attention, as one-year wonder Marvin O’Connor put on two of the most incredible displays of bball I’ve ever witnessed. The first was a regular season game against La Salle, where I tuned in to the game on a whim, and got to see Marvin drop 18 points in the last 60 seconds of the contest. He drained a few threes, stole an inbounds pass and rocked the rim a time or two. Game is still seared vividly in my mind. The other memory from that season is the Hawks second round Tourney game against Stanford. Down big at the half, O’Connor dropped a whopping 37 points on the night (a Saturday night I believe?), leading a stunning comeback that fell just short. Jameer also killed in that game, running the point like a true vet. Maybe you had to see it to appreciate—kind of like Nelson’s game.

The next year, Meer’s second and O’Connor’s last, the Hawks were supposed to do big things. But they flamed out, as M.O. suffered some leg injuries. Nelson, the reigning SI Freshmen of the Year kept bringing it, though, but it wasn’t enough without his running mate. With O’Connor due to receive his diploma, nobody was expecting much from Phil Martelli’s Hawks in the upcoming season.

As a matter of full disclosure, it was around this time that I started rocking Jameer’s No. 14, taking the digits as my own. I didn’t just cop his number, though; I tried to emulate his whole game. From the nifty fullcourt bounce passes to the pull-up 18-footer, Chester’s finest influenced not only my game, but that of every kid at my gym. Now plenty of us still wanted to be Kobe, another local hero, but being Jameer was just more realistic. He wasn’t too tall; he wasn’t super speedy; and he didn’t do anything we couldn’t work on at the Y.

Fast-forward to senior year. With Delonte West on the wing and host of hard workers wearing Hawks colors, a beautiful thing happened: the Hawks didn’t lose a regular season game. Headed into the A-10 Tourney, everything looked perfect. The Hawks were the No. 1 team in the Nation, and Jameer was the catalyst. The team was special that year, and I realized that early on, as I started to listen to games over the crackling radio by my bed. When I should’ve been doing work, I was wrapped up in the never dying Hawks. Be it the Holy War (games against Villanova) or just a game against Xavier (one in which Delonte had a perfect game from the field, 12-12, and the FT line, 6-6), I was in a trance.

The Hawks didn’t complete the dream the way they would’ve liked, losing to Xavier in the A-10 tourney, and Oklahoma State in the Elite Eight (Nelson missed a final shot that could’ve won the game). But Jameer had as close to a perfect year as a short, chubby college senior could possibly have, pulling home the Wooden Award and the Bob Cousy Award, in addition to landing on an SI cover.

With “All Eyes On Me” tatted in bold print across his shoulder blades, Jameer and his family (his son was mad cute) waited on Draft night to find out where he would go. Somehow, it probably had something to do with his aforementioned physical attributes, Meer found himself still waiting to hear his name deep into the first round. Finally, with the 20th pick, the Denver Nuggets drafted him…and then promptly swapped his rights to Orlando.

Meer always had these sad eyes. Eyes that always look like they’re searching, be it for the man cutting to the hoop or something more profound. That June night,  Nelson’s eyes told me all I needed to know: he’d be searching for revenge when the time came.

The rest is history. It took him a few years to get comfortable and find his place in the L, but Jameer finally found it all clicking last year, making the All Star team before getting sidelined with a shoulder injury. Before getting hurt, Meer was shooting at a nice clip (over 50%), guiding the offense smoothly and, maybe most importantly, was Dwight Howard’s best friend and team leader.

In the 42 games Nelson did play last year, he averaged close to 17 ppg, 5.5 apg, 3.5 rpg, 1 spg and only 2 turnovers per. Jameer truly was in the midst of putting it all together. He wasn’t just an All-Star and the Magics second-best player through January, he was their very pulse and breath.

All most people remember now is the shot that Derek Fisher hit over him in the Finals. I remember everything leading up to that: From the undersized kid playing on for Chester to the little PG dominating at SJU, from hosting all of his teammates for a week of bonding before every season to losing his father in a sad accident on the Delaware River, from seeing little action early in Orlando to making the All-Star game, from being shut down for the year to showing grit and guile by making it back for the Finals, I remember every step along the journey. One that continues this year with Nelson as a top NBA player on a Title contender.

All eyes will be on Jameer this season. But then, check his ink. They always have been.

Notes
• Rankings are based solely on projected ‘09-10 performance.
• Contributors to this list include: Jake Appleman, Brett Ballantini, Russ Bengtson, Toney Blare, Shannon Booher, Myles Brown, Franklyn Calle, Gregory Dole, Emry DowningHall, Jonathan Evans, Adam Fleischer, Jeff Fox, Sherman Johnson, Aaron Kaplowitz, John Krolik, Holly MacKenzie, Ryne Nelson, Chris O’Leary, Ben Osborne, Alan Paul, Susan Price, Sam Rubenstein, Khalid Salaam, Kye Stephenson, Adam Sweeney, Vincent Thomas, Tzvi Twersky, Justin Walsh, Joey Whelan, Eric Woodyard, and Nima Zarrabi.
• Want more of the SLAMonline Top 50? Check out the archive.

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This story is filed under: SLAMonline Top 50, T in the Key

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  • max Posted: Aug.31 at 8:23 am
    nice article and solid ranking, however, if he puts up numbers like he did before his injury and maybe even adds a dime or two, we might wish he were placed a few spots higher in the ranking

  • Brad Long Posted: Aug.31 at 8:30 am
    I’m guessing the number of comments complaining about him being ranked higher than AI is going to be about 75. Lets count them through out the day and see how close I get! Good write up, Tzvi. If Jameer can get back to his pre injury self he’ll be worthy.

  • Bryan Posted: Aug.31 at 8:35 am
    This is surprisinglu low.

  • Justin Walsh Posted: Aug.31 at 8:48 am
    T, excellent addition. Jameer is going to be pretty solid this year. Yes, his placement is a little low, but remember the NBA is a guard heavy league and all this shows is just how talented this league really is. On another note, good morning world. Brad, I KNEW you’d be in the first 5 comments.

  • fredd Posted: Aug.31 at 8:53 am
    co sign justin, “good morning world ! ” i hope this kid will be healthy this year, i still need a good year from him to trust his ( high ) talent …..

  • James the balla Posted: Aug.31 at 9:14 am
    Co-sign Brad. I am guessing out of the 75 Teddy will have 60 of them. But this is a good spot for Jameer. One of my favorite players in the league for the simple fact that he trains like a beast!!!

  • Hussman25 Posted: Aug.31 at 9:24 am
    Great story… being born in Chester and graduating from a rival high school close to Cheter High, I got to see alot of Jameer play (even for only 2 yrs. I always admired his game. Tough, leader and Strong are all words that fit him, both on and off the court. Also, being a fan of Philadelphia hoops, thanks for the mention of Marvin O’ Connor in this piece also… His 37 on your new blogger (Sorry Casey, should have read up more on your opponent prior to making your infamous statement…lol) was one of the best tourney performances I ever seen. (Any true hoops fan of Marv from philly knows he was never a “one year” wonder though… From Gratz where he tore up the public league for coach ellerbee, to Nova…cant remember if he was a Lappas recruit or Jay wright recruit, but he did not get any love from either, then out to hawk hill… Thanks Phil for bringing him in!). Tzvi… Again nice piece.

  • k.a. Posted: Aug.31 at 9:28 am
    I gotta say, both dwight and nelson make for a likeable team. However having stan balances this out somewhat. i’d still root for these guys even when they’re the fave tho.

  • zabba Posted: Aug.31 at 9:29 am
    HE’S RANKED HIGHER THAN IVERSON?! I’M NEVER GONNA BUY SLAM AGAIN!

  • Gerard Himself Posted: Aug.31 at 9:29 am
    Tzvi, just wondering, I really enjoy your articles, but reading that, you’re a young fella aren’t you? And no, I don’t mean anything by that, just wondering!

  • Eboy Posted: Aug.31 at 9:31 am
    In the Magic’s system, I’d take Jammer as a great compliment to the rest of the Magic’s roster over a certain #50. As a talent overall, this dude is still a step below that same #50.

  • James the balla Posted: Aug.31 at 9:32 am
    Please don’t Zabba!! It’s based on nexts year production, keep that in mind. Right now Iverson does not have a team!!!

  • James the balla Posted: Aug.31 at 9:33 am
    next years*

  • Joel O's Posted: Aug.31 at 9:34 am
    Right. AI is definitely the better player. But 48 did a lot more for his team than 50 last season, and unless someone signs AI soon, the same thing might be true next season.

  • Justin Walsh Posted: Aug.31 at 9:36 am
    Joel, I agree with your point, but also the rankings themselves are based STRICTLY on our projections for this current season. Well, at least we’d like to think so. I imagine we all have some sort of bias. Myself, I have Mark Madsen in the top 10.

  • Joel O's Posted: Aug.31 at 9:37 am
    @Tzvi: Sorry to be nitpicky, but I think you meant “breath” in the third-to-last paragraph.

  • Brad Long Posted: Aug.31 at 9:38 am
    Justin:I’m always up for the early bird special here at SLAM.

  • Joel O's Posted: Aug.31 at 9:41 am
    @Justin: Yup. And seeing how the Magic are many peoples’ favourites to make the finals again, and AI seems destined to be signed on a fringe team, 48 and 50 seem fine to me.

  • Eboy Posted: Aug.31 at 9:46 am
    Yeah, but if AI get’s picked up by a fringe team and averages 22 and 4 somewhere and Jameer averages 17 and 7 for a potential Magic Finals team again, who’s really the most valuable? This is a singular player list ranking isn’t it? Team performance can’t be that huge in the overall ranking, can it? Kevin Durant has to be Top 20 doesn’t he and the Thunder are one of the 5 worst teams in the league, right?

  • Yesse Posted: Aug.31 at 9:48 am
    Alright, this list fails!From what i remember this list was made of the greatest 50 players ever and believe me, Jameer Nelson isnt in it (maybe later, he could become a great PG).

  • Bryan Posted: Aug.31 at 9:51 am
    If this is based on an idividuals performance next season kevin durant has to be top 10.

  • Brad Long Posted: Aug.31 at 9:52 am
    No E, the Thunder are gonna make a run at the playoffs this year. I’m not saying they’ll make it, but their gonna have a chance going into the last month of the season.

  • Eboy Posted: Aug.31 at 9:56 am
    B, that’s all well and good, but if AI went to a team like the Heat or the BETCATS, both those teams would do the same exact thing too.

  • James the balla Posted: Aug.31 at 9:57 am
    I am co-signing everything B Long is saying!! Thunder are going to be the team to keep an eye on taking the 7/8 spot in the playoffs.

  • Mike Klander Posted: Aug.31 at 10:01 am
    Good article and good ranking, although I would have placed him a little higher. The Eastern Conference better watch out for this guy come 09-10!.

  • max Posted: Aug.31 at 10:02 am
    @yesse read before you write

  • Tzvi Twersky Posted: Aug.31 at 10:02 am
    @Yesse, this list is that of the 50 best players for the upcoming season. No more no less.
    : @Hussman25 I remember Marvin at Nova; it didn’t work out too well. And by 1-year wonder I meant that in college he had one year where he was a top player. He didn’t have it like that his senior year (mainly injuries).
    : @Eboy: Like you said though, AI is an “if,” and he’s a “maybe.” If had a team and a deal he very well may have been placed higher. We’re pretty sure we know what Meer will be bringing this year, so we have to give him the 2-up on Iverson for know.

  • Hussman25 Posted: Aug.31 at 10:23 am
    @Tzvi… I understood where you were coming from, just wanted to add some commentary for the readers who may have took it that way. True Philly H.S Hoopsters and Big 5 fans know bout him though… Jameer is one of the best ballers to come from the city or “suburbs” in years… Hopefully Tyreek (Evans) can equal his success…

  • Scott Posted: Aug.31 at 10:24 am
    Is it just me but when are we going to get some players that deserve to be in the top 50?

  • AlbertBarr Posted: Aug.31 at 10:29 am
    Nice write up, Tzvi. I was surprised by Meer’s play in the Finals coming back from injury so I would definitely put money on him being back to form this season. Magic are gonna be fun to watch.

  • Z Posted: Aug.31 at 10:29 am
    Kevin Durant IS top 10. The guy was beasting last year, can’t believe how slept on he was. 25-7-3 on 48-42-86 shooting is unreal. I think it’s bogus to hold a player’s record against him for the ASG. It should be a celebration of the L’s best talents. / Jameer is somewhat overrated. Nice, but not that nice. If you take a look, his numbers are identical to Mo Williams. Nice complementary players but these guys have no business in the ASG. 48 is right where he should be. (Don’t even get me started on if he’s better or has more value than AI. No and no.)

  • James the balla Posted: Aug.31 at 10:37 am
    Kevin Durant is sick.

  • Orlando Woolridge Posted: Aug.31 at 10:55 am
    Z, Durant is awesome, but his numbers are going to outshine Jameers no matter what, as KD has the green light to do whatever the hell he wants out there with that team. Jameer was rewarded for playing extremely well on a team that went to the finals. Big difference in my mind. You can’t always go by the numbers.

  • TheDDB Posted: Aug.31 at 10:56 am
    Z….Mo Williams doesn’t have half the responsibility that Nelson has, nor is he a team leader. Mo, shoots open jumpers and at times pushes the ball in transition. Nelson in my opinion is better than Mo and it’s not that close. Being from Chester, I may be biased but I like to think that my eye for the game outweighs my bias.

  • Darksaber Posted: Aug.31 at 10:56 am
    A player with his numbers and his situation next season (the undisputed main PG for Orlando without much of a backup) seems deserving of a top 50 ranking. i say seems, because he’s quite the defensive liability in my eyes, the strong guards (Deron, Felton, Kidd, Billups) manhandle him down low or just bully through him on their way to the hoop, and the speedy ones (you know who) are too fast for him. Sure he’s got a great shotblocker back in the paint to help him out, and that system works, but a top 50 should be better on D. Also, he’s not gonna have that much of an improvement to his last season performances (if at all considering the firepower Orlando has amassed) so he’s not as important to their success as say a Josh Howard is to the Mavs.

  • Darksaber Posted: Aug.31 at 10:59 am
    I’ll give him this though, Jameer has big brass ones for even TRYING to come back in the Finals(!!) instead of letting the Magic’s rotation from the Cleveland series do it’s thang. Either supremely confident (which he is) or quite the self -overestimation of his form last June.

  • max Posted: Aug.31 at 11:04 am
    “…,buut a top 50 should be better on D.”
    @darksaber lol just what are you going to say when it’s time for durant…?

  • Orlando Woolridge Posted: Aug.31 at 11:16 am
    Thank you max, I was wondering the same thing.

  • Darksaber Posted: Aug.31 at 11:38 am
    Guys, KD has been in the league how long? 2 season’s, right? You do know that learning good D in the Nba takes a few seasons? It’s a learning curve, guys have to get used to the fact that they guard the best opponents at their position on any given night, and how to play against them. Takes studying game video, listening to assistant coaches (who’ve studied the same tapes in detail) and constant communication with more experienced teammates to become a solid Nba Defender. Well, guess what, based on Numbers, Durant already averages more steals than Jameer (5 seasons played), of course steals are not an indicator of good D (unless you’re CP3 who gambles AND plays good heads up D) but Durant will only get better on Defense. He’s 215 Pounds at 6-9, of course he gets beaten on D by Kob’s, Vince, Bron, etc. Jameer has stagnated on D, Kevin’s only getting started.

  • Darko Posted: Aug.31 at 11:54 am
    Great article but would of liked to see him higher up…

  • Justin Walsh Posted: Aug.31 at 11:56 am
    I can’t wait ’til KD’s spot on the list. I’m a huge KG supporter.

  • Allenp Posted: Aug.31 at 11:58 am
    Eboy made my comment at 9:31 a.m. That is all.

  • Allenp Posted: Aug.31 at 11:59 am
    I think Kevin Durant is going to get a lot of love by SLAM.

  • Justin Walsh Posted: Aug.31 at 12:00 pm
    Allenp, he did make quite the point, didn’t he? In other news, Disney is buying Marvel. That’s it, I quit the world.

  • Bryan Posted: Aug.31 at 12:10 pm
    You know I kinda think josh howard is better than jameer nelson not for nothin.

  • niQ Posted: Aug.31 at 12:16 pm
    If he can stay healthy, I might have to draft him in this year’s fantasy basketball.

  • James the balla Posted: Aug.31 at 12:24 pm
    Bryan, he may be better but they are predicting stats for next year. That is why Kobe will probly be number 5-7 on this list. Behind, Wade, Bron, KD, CP, BRoy, Arenas maybe …

  • Darksaber Posted: Aug.31 at 12:29 pm
    Jesus, Disney’s taken over Marvel? The whole shebang or just the movie department? Please Lord, don’t let them anywhere near the comics.

  • James the balla Posted: Aug.31 at 12:32 pm
    The whole shebang!!! 4 billion they bought it for I believe!

  • Zee! Posted: Aug.31 at 12:34 pm
    Smh @ the lack of reading the small print. But I will say that if Jameer plays like how he’s projected to, man…..

  • Scott Posted: Aug.31 at 12:35 pm
    Justin your going to have to wait for Durant. KD has got to be top ten.

  • Darksaber Posted: Aug.31 at 12:38 pm
    @James: oh bloody hellfire. Disney, realky?A lifetime of reading the world’s best comics is in jeopardy. Oh well, thanks for the breaking news, Slammers.

  • Z Posted: Aug.31 at 12:38 pm
    Just realized that Bron posted 27-7-7 in his 2nd season. Still unreal numbers by KD but I actually thought that he was ahead of Bron at the same age/exp. / Nelson didn’t have more responsibility than Mo in Orlando’s offense. Bron and Turk where the respective playmakers in the halfcourt O. I’m cool with 48th but an all-star, he is not. I could totally see a lot of guards do what he does in Orl. Guys like Sessions, Calderon, etc. / Yeah, I’d take Josh over him too.

  • Darksaber Posted: Aug.31 at 12:43 pm
    As would i, Z. Josh is a better all around player and would be good on most nba rosters (if healthy)

  • Allenp Posted: Aug.31 at 12:45 pm
    I’m not a big fan of Josh Howard. I feel like his game is stagnant, and I can’t believe he hasn’t figured out how to get buckets with JKidd by now.

  • Darksaber Posted: Aug.31 at 12:49 pm
    To be fair, he played injured for a big chunk of the season, check the rise in Dirk’s numbers, and JT’s then look at Josh’s decline… Kidd had other mouths to feed last season

  • Bryan Posted: Aug.31 at 12:54 pm
    I think the best comparison for kd is a young tmac, and he’s way ahead of him at the same stage. The way he scores the ball is smooth and effortless just like tmac in his orlando days and I see a 33 8 and 5 season or 2 in durants future

  • Z Posted: Aug.31 at 12:57 pm
    Neither am I, Allen. As stagnat as it is (it’s true that he hasn’t really improved since they went to the Finals). He’s long, cand D up any wing, gets to the basket, hit his open shots and STAYS WITHIN HIS LIMITS. It’s really hard to find a wing that has been to the ASG and doesn’t get an inflated perception of his offensive skills (I’m looking at you, Matrix). He has more value to me that Nelson, who’s a dime a dozen. Diminutive pgs that can hit shots are not that hard to find.

  • Young C Posted: Aug.31 at 12:58 pm
    I just cant believe the Magic are gonna have 4 players in the top 50. If thats the case then the Lakers will probably have 4 also. The Cavs might have 3 depending on how people feel about Mo Williams. There might be a few teams that dont have anybody in the top 50.

  • Z Posted: Aug.31 at 1:00 pm
    33 is a lot of points, Bryan. Not saying he can’t do it but to put it in perspective, Kob has only been over 33 once and his highest after that his 31. Bron’s highest is 31. I think Ivey’s highest is 31 too. And those are 3 of the best scorers of all time basically.

  • Allenp Posted: Aug.31 at 1:08 pm
    Ivey’s is 33.
    He put up 33 and 7 as the point in Philly.

  • JE Posted: Aug.31 at 1:15 pm
    Pretty wild that the bottom 3 players on this list were all named to the All-Star team last season.

  • Bryan Posted: Aug.31 at 1:41 pm
    I think he can do it , he’s better pure scorer than bron is and hits threes more consistently than iverson or kobe.

  • Mr.stoney Posted: Aug.31 at 1:47 pm
    hello there slam world ive been checkin the site everyday for a while and readin all your crazy comments and competitive banter as they say when i decided somthing………..I WANT IN! So this is my intro lets get the basics out the way
    1. Im a laker fan since the showtime days(let the hate begin)
    2. Kobe Bean IS the best damn bball player in the planet!!!!!!!!
    3. Contrary to popular belief michael jordan is not the greatest basketball player ever(ask me who i dare you)
    4. let the arguin commence………oh and feel free to test my knowledge if you want i love to be doubted

  • Mr.stoney Posted: Aug.31 at 1:49 pm
    And regarding this article Jameer is a lil lower than 48!! 48 really who in the blue hell came up wit this list

  • rainman10 Posted: Aug.31 at 2:01 pm
    Kevin Durant has a better offensive arsenal than Lebron. KD may very well average 32-35 at some point in his career.

  • rainman10 Posted: Aug.31 at 2:04 pm
    James the balla thinks Arenas might be ahead of Kobe on this list???!

  • ab_40 Posted: Aug.31 at 2:05 pm
    rankings based solely on 08/09 season he shouldn’t have played in the finals anyway that F-ed up the chemistry of that team so bad. and because SVG didn’t know what to do he just let hedo play point forward not to disapoint anyone. I know dwight loves him but he isn’t the stockton to dwight’s malone oh and he ain’t no all star

  • Overtime Posted: Aug.31 at 2:32 pm
    One of my fave guys in the league, I think its a little too low for him, and definitely is if he can move past his injury ok. He didn’t perform well in the finals, but he was never going to miss out on that chance and I dont blame him…he might never get the oppotunity again after all. He’s a great fit for the Magic.

  • max Posted: Aug.31 at 2:33 pm
    @mr.stoney if with ”i want in”, you mean you want your name to appear in blue when you comment, just fill in the ”website” block (i think).
    And just for the heck of it… who if not mj?

  • knock Posted: Aug.31 at 2:44 pm
    kevin durant is not worthy of top 50 even if slam puts him there. Worst defender in the league, hands down. Most of these loser commenters just look at who scores the most, even if they’re the worst team in the WHOLE LEAGUE. Too bad durant hasn’t achieved anything, jus like lebron.

  • Z Posted: Aug.31 at 2:50 pm
    ”he’s better pure scorer than bron”. translation: ”even if he averaged less than lebron at the same age, he can’t do anything else, therefore he is a pure scorer”. i find it funny that almost everybody is a better pure scorer than lebron… yet he averages more points per game than almost everybody else in the L and has a higher career avg than ‘pure scorers’ like kob and AI. he’s almost penalized as a scorer for sharing the ball a lot, just saying. Bron avg 31.5 with 7 assists in his 3rd year, let’s see if KD is up for that this year.

  • Allenp Posted: Aug.31 at 2:50 pm
    Knock
    You think Durant is the “worst” defender in the league? That’s a mighty bold comment, care to back it up with some actual logic or facts?

  • Z Posted: Aug.31 at 2:54 pm
    knock, it is as dumb to disregard every stat from players in losing team. cmon now, use judgment. kd plays the game the right way, he’s not ricky davis. the stats are not empty, the % are very high. his team sucks, that’s not his fault. if they suck 2 years from now, then it will be his fault.

  • underdog Posted: Aug.31 at 2:55 pm
    I hope his shoulder is going to be 100% this season.

  • Canuck Posted: Aug.31 at 3:08 pm
    I definitely jumped on the Thunder bandwagon before last season. I’m not usually one for bandwagons, but I couldn’t help myself, and watching the Raptors just got depressing last year, if the Thunder mesh well and improve at the rate they were towards the end of last season they will definitely be pushing for a playoff spot.

  • AlbertBarr Posted: Aug.31 at 3:20 pm
    How did we get on the Durantula tangent? Anyways, KD is badazz cause although LeBron may have “better numbers” at the same age and experience as KD let us remember…LeBron is a physical specimen to be reckoned with…he probably get 5-6 points a game just from his physical advantage. Velvet Hoop still weighs like twelve pounds so…LeBron is amazing but lets not hate on KD because of it. His defense isnt that bad either…he is really long so he should be able to improve.

  • Z Posted: Aug.31 at 3:39 pm
    Albert Barr, we could also say that KD get buckets because he’s so freaking long. He might not be strong but a 6-10 dude with pterodactyl arms and a high release doesn’t need much separation to fire a J. Not hating on KD at all but there’s nothing that suggets that he’d be a better anything than Bron.

  • Mr.stoney Posted: Aug.31 at 3:40 pm
    Earvin magic johnson
    1. ncaa title in his sophmore year
    2. first Nba title the next season!! and the finals mvp to go wit it
    3. in that finals he started at pg and C!!!!!!!!
    4. 3 mvps i know thats not 5 but remember he retired at 32.
    5. had he not retired so early whose to say mike wins 6 titles.
    6. once again he could play all five positions on both ends of the floor.
    7. literally changed the game and i know thats a cliche that is thrown around way to much but in this case its the truth.
    8. He made all of his teammates better with out having to learn how a la mike and kobe.
    9. he had the killer instinct lebron dosents.
    10. when you add up his size, skill, mental attributes, attitude and will to win you literally have the perfect bball player.
    11. and as good of a showman as there ever was he just chose to throw a no-look and not throw down…theres my case

  • Mr.stoney Posted: Aug.31 at 3:42 pm
    max sorry i took so long to answer but hey im at work

  • Jukai Posted: Aug.31 at 4:00 pm
    I feel you guys are a little TOO high on Velvet Hoop here.
    He’ll probably be a career 25-28 point scorer, something ridiculously high. He’ll hit a few thirty point seasons.
    But that’s really all I see from him. I mean, his passing is subpar (he sees people fine but he can’t create and he has trouble passing out of double teams.. I see 3-4 assists) and his rebounding so far is only because of height… I say six or seven boards a game, no more.
    I also question if he will be a good defender in the future. Sure, D takes time to develop in the league, but his frame makes me doubtful.
    He wont even come close to reaching the greatest of either Wade or Lebron. Book it.

  • AlbertBarr Posted: Aug.31 at 4:04 pm
    Z, I agree, KD has his own “freak of nature” physique working for him…but I do think that LeBrons physique is DOMINANT. KD can get an advantage with his length but it doesnt make people sh!t there pants when he is driving toward the hoop. LeBron is just really skilled AND a beast physically. KD has to be more versatile with his offensive game, even with his length. All I was really trying to say was that if LeBron wasnt quite as ginormous that he and KD’s numbers might be more comparable in year two. Regardless, they are both awesome players and I am pretty stoked that they will be tearing it up in the league for a while.

  • AlbertBarr Posted: Aug.31 at 4:06 pm
    I think it awesome that we are calling KD “Velvet Hoop” now. Much better than Baby Ice. Still not as awesome as Durantula.

  • James the balla Posted: Aug.31 at 4:08 pm
    @Rainmen … no I didn’t put Arenas higher then Kobe. But SLAM may put him higher. Everyone is expecting Arenas to be on fire this year, comming really hard. And people are expecting Kobe to do less and and not guard the best player because of Artest. So on this list Kobe may not crack top 5. And as most people who are regular SLAM commenters, they know I am bias towards Kobe cause he is effing amazing. But I don’t know if he cracks top 5 on this list.

  • AlbertBarr Posted: Aug.31 at 4:20 pm
    Kobe has to be in the top five.

  • nbk Posted: Aug.31 at 4:20 pm
    james you really just said you don’t know if Kobe will be in the top 5? you realize he just won a title right?

  • la huey Posted: Aug.31 at 4:21 pm
    Stoney, you bring up good points about Magic and its cool to see someone consider a player other MJ to be the greatest however, here’s my counter to some of your points.
    1. Jordan got an NCAA title too.
    2. Magic was flanked by Hall of Famers but I can still concede this one. It’s a remarkable feat, no doubt.
    3. Again, I concede.
    4 & 5. Jordan denied Magic his 6th title when the Bulls took out the Lakers in 5. Magic’c only shot at another MVP would’ve been during the 1st baseball season. A 35 year old Magic would not have got MVP during the Dream Season.
    6. First 2-guard to join the conversation of most dominant ever.
    7. Jordan bucked the idea that you needed a dominant big to win a title. This holds true if not for the squabbling ‘04 Lakers v. play-the-right-way Pistons.
    8. Point, Magic.
    9. I’m pretty sure MJ’s picture is in the dictionary next to “Killer Instinct”
    10. I can concede this because I think LeBron is the only one with a chance to become the new prototype but his fingers are too naked challenge at this point.
    11. So this one I think is a little superfluous.
    I’m going to add one of Mike here. Jordan is the only player since Russell to deny such a large # of HOFers titles. Oh, and two 3peats

  • James the balla Posted: Aug.31 at 4:25 pm
    NBK and Albertbarr… its not about best player. Its about what they will do next year stat wise, peformance wise. Kobes points will more then likely drop because of artest and bymnum. He wont have to guard a guy with the ball in his hands as much because of artest. Last year Dwade, Bron and CP3 had better stats. KD, Broy were close behind, coming into they’re prime. Carmelo will be back healthy and Arenas is looking to destroy. I love Kobe and I think he is the best player in the NBA. But for stats next year, SLAM may not put him in the top 5.

  • nbk Posted: Aug.31 at 4:28 pm
    uhm wasn’t tim duncan number 3 last year? and when has this list ever been about stats more then how much a player does for their team? idk what you ate for breakfast this morning but your way off base hear. Kobe will be top 3 again.

  • Jacob J Posted: Aug.31 at 4:29 pm
    This is BULLSH!T!!!!!

  • James the balla Posted: Aug.31 at 4:29 pm
    Bynum*

  • James the balla Posted: Aug.31 at 4:30 pm
    k

  • Mr.stoney Posted: Aug.31 at 4:32 pm
    huey all good points but i just gotta give magic a lil extra laker love. im just glad to see someone accept that fact that there is actually an argument to be made for someone other than mr. jordan. also i gotta give magic this in a world that was forgetting the nba existed who reminded them and set the table for mike………u can say it. also he came into the league and hit the ground running who else can say that not kobe, not lebron, not mike, not even wilt won a title in his rookie year and if you say bill russell i’ll………i’ll……dammit i’ll have to agree but i believe that was a different game back then

  • Mr.stoney Posted: Aug.31 at 4:33 pm
    i meant wilt didnt win a title in his rookie year

  • AlbertBarr Posted: Aug.31 at 4:33 pm
    “First thing was first: choosing criteria. Farmer Jones submitted the most succinct explanation, one we easily agreed upon: “Who, based on what you expect them to contribute ON THE COURT this season, are the 50 best players in the NBA?” So that question is your answer. The 2009 SLAMonline Top 50 is our early, super extended, MVP predictions.” Based on this criteria, which is classified as on-the-contributions (not just ppg and the like), Kobe should still be top five. I actually think his scoring will go up with Artest on the team as he wont have to lock down the best perimeter guy on the other team. But even if his numbers were to go down across the board, Kobe makes a HUGE impact to his team just by making other defenses focus on him. Add in that Phil Jax is trusting in him to make many of the in game decisions…I think Kobe has a strong top five case to be made.

  • nbk Posted: Aug.31 at 4:36 pm
    And Gilbert Arenas was not top 5 last year and ended up injured, wtf you just take the rusty knife out and call it one of your sharpest? be realistic james, arenas might not even be top 10

  • AlbertBarr Posted: Aug.31 at 4:39 pm
    I hope Arenas continues to distribute the ball like he did those few games at the end of the season. That, to me, would make more of an impact for the Wiz. They have scorers, they need a general. But he wont be top ten unless the criteria included OFF-THE-COURT contributions and he was still blogging.

  • nbk Posted: Aug.31 at 4:39 pm
    and magic did come in the leageu with a guy names larry, who was equally important to league popularity, especially in the 80’s. Michael won titles with Luc Longley as his starting center. Magic was great, top 5 ever great, but Michael was Michael, “god in basketball shoes” as larry legend used to say, or the “greatest ever” said by many, magic most notably considering the argument

  • Mack Posted: Aug.31 at 4:46 pm
    Jameer looks like a black Tie Domi (google him, he plays hockey)

  • James the balla Posted: Aug.31 at 5:03 pm
    haha he does Mack. ANd I am from East Coast of canada I know my hockey players lol.

  • Bryan Posted: Aug.31 at 5:29 pm
    I stand by what I said. I’m not on lebrons nuts like everyone else. I like him I think he’s an incredible basketball player and I also think that kevin durant is on his way to being at worst the second best player in the nba within the next 3 years.

  • Bryan Posted: Aug.31 at 5:47 pm
    I joined late but how in the world can anyone not think kobe is top five best players in the league? I think even eboy wants to slap whoever said that.

  • Niya-girl-fresh Posted: Aug.31 at 6:08 pm
    I’m sorry but this bullsh-t and yes I’m complaining, Jameer is ranked higher than Iverson? What has he done lately? He’s a good player and a decent p.g. but he has one good season, halfway and yet he’s ranked above A.I.? Come on now shawty that can’t be Slam isn’t cutting it with this top 50, so far.

  • Jukai Posted: Aug.31 at 6:11 pm
    Bryan: Wade would like a word with you.

  • nbk Posted: Aug.31 at 6:14 pm
    the ranking is only for the next season niya, not for their career. and if you think iverson was better then nelson last year, then maybe you should take up watching something else

  • Bryan Posted: Aug.31 at 6:42 pm
    Jukai , I didn’t say Lebron was number one.

  • nbk Posted: Aug.31 at 6:45 pm
    he was referring to you sayin durant will be top 2 in the next 3 years. im pretty sure.

  • Bryan Posted: Aug.31 at 6:47 pm
    I’m pretty sure I got that nbk.

  • nbk Posted: Aug.31 at 6:51 pm
    so your trying to say that dwayne wade will be better then lebron is 3 years? are you high? LeBron is 24, dwayne wade is 27 and durant is 22. The only person that will be at the apex of their prime in 3 years is lebron james. i hope your not dumb enough to think durant will be better then lebron

  • Bryan Posted: Aug.31 at 7:02 pm
    Yeah I hope I’m not dumb enough to have a different opinion than you. F*cking assh*le.

  • nbk Posted: Aug.31 at 7:05 pm
    haha at worst the second best player in 3 years is not an opinion. it is a prediction. and it could be a good one, unless you think somehow lebron will get worse

  • Z Posted: Aug.31 at 7:08 pm
    Bryan, your hate on LeBron is clouding your judgment. For real. There is nothing that KD has done in his first 2 years that would lead someone to believe objectively that he could be better than Bron. I think you know that. It’s not even about being on his nuts or anything. The resume speaks for itself. KD is not doing anything that hasn’t been done by Bron, and better. / Likewise, this is pretty much the apex of Wade’s game at 27. So in 3 years, you’re implying that he’ll be significantly better than now? (given that Bron is better right now and will also improve and hit HIS apex in 3 years)

  • Z Posted: Aug.31 at 7:11 pm
    Having a different opinion is one thing. Like in a Kob/Bron argument. You can lean heavily on one side while still seeing WHY someone would argue for the other side. But a KD/Bron arugment?! Get real. KD is close to the scorer that Bron was in his 2nd year but not quite. AND ON TOP OF THAT, we’re not even going to mention the playmaking abilities, the defense, the physicality and the athletic abilities,because that wouldn’t be fair.

  • Bryan Posted: Aug.31 at 7:20 pm
    I don’t hate lebron, I think Wade is a better player than Bron right now and I am implying that Kevin Durant can be better also. I don’t care if you disagree or you don’t I don’t care if you throw a million stats at me. I think Kevin Durant scores the ball easier than Lebron, I think he averages less than one rebound less per game than bron does, the only things Lebron has going for him over Durant are his passing and defense.ALthough his defense is so overrated it’s f*cking mythical at this point. Kevin Durant WILL get stronger which will allow him to become a much better defender.HIs rebounding will also improve , leaving only the passing being the difference with Durant being the better scorer. I’d rather have the guy who is gonna get me the bucket than the guy who can make the pass to lead to a bucket.

  • Bryan Posted: Aug.31 at 7:22 pm
    Excuse me 1.1 rebounds less. Even though when he actually plays his natural small forward his numbers are significantly better.

  • Bryan Posted: Aug.31 at 7:25 pm
    I forgot though Lebron is the best scorer rebounder passes and defender in the nba and anyone who doesn’t think so is obviously stupid. So I’ll be stupid.

  • Bryan Posted: Aug.31 at 7:27 pm
    One more thing , if you want a hint of Kevin Durant’s potential look at his numbers from january 28.8 ppg, 8.8 rpg and 3.7 apg while very near the 50-40-90 plateau.

  • Z Posted: Aug.31 at 7:34 pm
    No need for sarcasm. No one said that he is the best at everything in the NBA, just that he is better than KD at pretty much everything you listed. I’d just rather get the guy that can get me the bucket, pass to lead the bucket, rebound and pass better. Your argument that KD scores the ball easier is based on nothing tangible, just projections out of thin air. He doesn’t score the ball better right now and he’s not on pace to score the ball better given his age and his years in the L. His scoring is magnified because that’s really all he does at this point. What’s ‘easier’ than buckets at the rim? I think you’re mixing ’scoring the ball easier’ with ‘liking how smooth KD’s game is’ MVP, 1st team All-NBA, 1st team ALL-Defensive… unless everybody is fooled by his D except you?

  • Jacob J Posted: Aug.31 at 7:34 pm
    Alright I hate Allen Iverson but couldnt you guys flip-flop AI and Jameer Nelson?

  • Z Posted: Aug.31 at 7:37 pm
    35-9-7 form mid-april to the end of may… if you really want to break it down like that.

  • Bryan Posted: Aug.31 at 7:44 pm
    If you want to discuss pace , he actually scored the ball at a better rate than Lebron did in his second year, seeing as Lebron played 3.5 minutes more per game. adjusted for pace or minutes played Kevin Durant 23.3 ppg 6 rpg Lebron 23.1 ppg and 6.2 rpg. But let me guess I’m copping out because I have nothing tangible? I’ll change my stance, Kevin Durant can score the ball in more ways than lebron can. At 6′11 and pretty athletic he can score at the rim which he will only get better at as he gets stronger, he has a better midrange and long range game and hits his free throws a much better rate. Lebron can bully his way to the basket and… Occasionally hit jumpers. And sure Lebron plays flashier defense blocking shots into the stands and flexing and posing for espn but is he really a great defender? I already know the answer I’m gonna get but I had to say it anyway. You circle your arguements , because Lebron was a better scorer than durant in his second year for your comparisons sake but you compare lebrons sixth year 24 year old defense to Kevin Durant’s second year 20 year old defense. YOu can twist any arguement to fit your so called logic making it impossible to reason with you and for that reason I’m out for now. You haven’t changed my mind , you will not change my mind. I will always think I’m right on this subject, so you’re not running me off it’s just pointless to continue a conversation when the only “facts” you care about are the ones that come out of your own mouth.

  • Z Posted: Aug.31 at 8:00 pm
    LeBron in his 2nd year was a better defender than KD in his 2nd year, there. KD gets routinely abused in every way on the defensive end. / Scoring in more ways doesn’t mean scoring easier or better. I’ve said this already in the comments section (look it up if you want proof) but per36 or per48 should only be used to project how a player would fare if given starters minutes. It’s of no use to compare guys get major burn. Again, I’ve said this already so that’s not even twisting an argument. / LeBron is a great defender, you can argue against most of the analysts and former players who vote on these things. The flashy blocks when he’s running behing a guy on a break actually save baskets. The fact that they’re shown on ESPN doesn’t mean they’re frivolous or that it’s all he does in defense. / I’m not really trying to change your mind because you have shown to your comments a bias against Bron that would prevent you from doing so. I just like to poke holes in your reasoning. / You like KD better than Bron, that’s really what it comes down to. And that, can not be argued.

  • Z Posted: Aug.31 at 8:00 pm
    through your comments*

  • Bryan Posted: Aug.31 at 8:05 pm
    Actually if you score in more ways you’re probably a better scorer.

  • Brad Long Posted: Aug.31 at 8:29 pm
    I almost fell out of my chair reading Z’s comment that LeBron was a better defender than KD in his second year. That’s like saying Hitler was a bigger humanitarian than Osama Bin Laden.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Aug.31 at 8:35 pm
    LeBron is NOT a great defender. He shouldn’t even be 1st All-Defensive team like he was this year. Second team maybe. Seriously, Battier owns James in Defense. Most commenters here should know that the All-Defensive 1st Teams were just selected to cater to the superstars.

  • Z Posted: Aug.31 at 9:06 pm
    If you score in more ways it means that…. you score in more ways! Chris Bosh scores in more ways that Amar’e but he’s not a better scorer. You still haven’t convinced me that KD is better than LeBron at anything (scoring, rebounding, passing, defending) at the same point in their career. Now moving to the third year. Lebron’s line? 31-7-7. Let’s see what KD does this year. Actually, let’s not. This is freaking boring. I’ll wait for some real debates. KD should be discussed with Brandon Roy. They’re not in the same tier.

  • Mark Posted: Aug.31 at 9:34 pm
    Ok first off, this debate isn’t about whether KD is better than LeBron. I’m sure we all know LeBron is a better player. But the debate is wheather KD will get to the same level of play. KD was4th in PPG for a good part of he season, behind Wade, LeBron, and Kobe. Which prooves something. On another note, Durant is my favourite player in the NBA currently and I believe that if James Harden has a good rookie season and Durant performs as well as last year, this team can really gte close to that number eight spot.

  • nbk Posted: Aug.31 at 9:36 pm
    uhhh i can’t believe there is more blind lebron hate then kobe love. its getting predictable people. Durant will be great, he will be REAL GOOD, in 3 years. Give him some time before you try and put him on a pedestal. your putting the “kevin durant” on a pedestal man

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Aug.31 at 9:43 pm
    @ Z: That still doesn’t mean LeBron is a great defender.

  • ENDS Posted: Aug.31 at 11:07 pm
    I see my Healthy Contributions to the Mag are really paying off

  • Aaron Posted: Aug.31 at 11:37 pm
    There are a number of players who you can argue have a better offsnsive arsenal than LeBron: Melo, Joe Johnson, Durant, Dirk, Pierce…But SO WHAT! Bron averages more points than ALL of them and shoots a higher percentage, not to mention the other phenomenal aspects of his game. The “better offense” argument is so lame and proves NOTHING! Too many people are giving too much weight to the aesthetics of a player’s game rather than their overall production/ impact.

  • Anton Posted: Aug.31 at 11:45 pm
    Delonte is better than this frog-looking fellow

  • Jukai Posted: Sep.1 at 12:39 am
    I love Bryan/Z arguments, because both Z and Bryan are very intelligent people who back up their points in a variety of ways, and also are both condescending jerks who throw backhanded insults like arrows. It’s incredibly riveting and hysterical.
    I think Z’s in the right, though. Okur can probably score in way more ways than Shaq. That does not make Okur the better scorer. While the difference in offensive output between Lebron and Durant is far smaller than Shaq and Okur, the basic principle remains the same: because Durant has a better outside shot and midrange game, it means nothing because Lebron can still score easier by running at the inside a billion times.
    Lebron’s stronger, more agile, can jump higher, and I know people are going to probably try and disagree with me but… Lebron is probably twice as fast.
    But although I don’t agree with Bryan that Wade is better than Lebron… I actually am one of the few people on earth who think Wade is very close to Lebron, and (don’t hate me James) Kobe is number 3 right now.

  • Jukai Posted: Sep.1 at 12:40 am
    Also, ENDS and Anton are clearly my favorite posters. Sorry BETCATS…

  • Pardeep Posted: Sep.1 at 12:40 am
    Top 5 players in the league in three years: 1.LeBron 2.D-wade or Durant 3. Chris Paul 4. Melo 5. Dwight Howard.

  • Pardeep Posted: Sep.1 at 12:44 am
    Jukai, do you think your some kind of judge? Everytime someone argues or says something you jump in give your own facts than talk about how the people arguing were right or wrong? You just can’t live without arguing on this site can you. By the way right now Kobe is number 1.

  • Darksaber Posted: Sep.1 at 12:48 am
    Careful Juks, you fit in the backhanded insults category quite well too. But i do agree, for my paycheck, Dwyane Wade is the most talented NBA player. Kobe the most driven & Bron is HeMan (he has the powerrrrr!).

  • Furious Posted: Sep.1 at 2:41 am
    Pardeep, your top 5 is stupid. there are six people. it suggests that if D-wade is 2, then durant is 6, and vice versa.
    Also, I hate when players like Lebron get All Defensive honours when they spend 36 minutes per game guarding scrubs to avoid foul trouble. For example in the Atlanta series in the playoffs, Delonte was the one who was guarding Joe Johnson for most of the game.
    Durant might be the same, 1 OKC game a year on ESPN isnt really enough to judge that.

  • tealish Posted: Sep.1 at 2:51 am
    @Pardeep: Kobe’s still top dog if he wants or if his team requires him to, but his play next season will probably be top 3. Not unlike last year.

  • tealish Posted: Sep.1 at 2:54 am
    @Furious: It does not suggest that…although his top 5 is still terribly wrong because 1)his #4 is incredibly off base and 2) a certain mamba of the black variety is missing.

  • Furious Posted: Sep.1 at 2:57 am
    You say it doesnt suggest that? If it was a top 5 then it would go from 2. D-wade or Durant to 4. Chris Paul, because whichever of D-wade or Durant was not no. 2 would be no. 3. So if we are to take it at face value, that is exactly what it does suggest.

  • tealish Posted: Sep.1 at 3:01 am
    Yes…. but common sen– nevermind.

  • Furious Posted: Sep.1 at 3:07 am
    I bow not to common sense, only to the true god, Pedantics.

  • tealish Posted: Sep.1 at 3:12 am
    Yet I see your pedantry doesn’t extend to sentence structure. Just playing.

  • Furious Posted: Sep.1 at 3:14 am
    And in other news, the pot calls the kettle black.

  • tealish Posted: Sep.1 at 3:19 am
    Well, I gather the pot — black as it is — never declared his one true god? Fair enough? No? Ok, either way, I’ve had enough.

  • Furious Posted: Sep.1 at 3:24 am
    haha touche.

  • tavoris Posted: Sep.1 at 9:39 am
    Darksaber, Kobe is the most talented, driven AND skilled NBA player, and has been for the past decade. He has been dong everything that Wade does since ‘98 or so, and also is a FAR better shooter, post up player, defender, mover without the ball, ball handler, etc…Wade is close (as he’s probably faster and jumps quicker and higher), but is definitely not more talented than Kobe.

  • Allenp Posted: Sep.1 at 10:50 am
    Bryan
    Kobe scores in more ways than Jordan, but I wouldn’t say he’s a better scorer than Jordan was at his prime.
    Just saying.

  • tavoris Posted: Sep.1 at 12:28 pm
    Allenp, Kobe isn’t gonna catch Jordan as a scorer. Jordan in his prime would be getting 15-20 free throws a game now…he used 2 kill 2 guards in the post.

  • Pardeep Posted: Sep.1 at 2:27 pm
    @Tealish and Furius: You guys should know what I mean those are my top 5 and it ends up being 6 if wade and durant arent tied. Kobe is going to be a 23 ppg scorer by 3 years. Even though hes my favorite player Kobe will probably start to slow down a bit.

  • la huey Posted: Sep.1 at 3:32 pm
    I agree that all-defensive is bias towards superstars. I think Houston gets more out of Battier’s defense that Cleveland out of Bron. But you can’t count it against LBJ that Mike Brown matches him up with weaker players. He still is a defensive presence being a help defender.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Sep.1 at 8:43 pm
    Yes, Bron is a pretty good defender. But Ron Artest, who had to score AND match up well with the other team last year, and Shane Battier are both waaaaay better than him at defense. Artest and Battier are also better than Wade at defense. We all know the All-Defensive selections were bullsh!t this year.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Sep.1 at 8:44 pm
    Kobe isn’t gonna catch Jordan as a scorer? Jordan is the best player ever but let’s not go there… Kobe dropped 81 points in a game and averaged 35 for a season. He also scored above 60 points more times than Jordan. I’d say he’s pretty close.

  • tavoris Posted: Sep.1 at 9:30 pm
    Teddy…Kobe is 31 now…Jordan already had the best-player-ever argument pretty sealed up by his 31st birthday…plus Jordan averaged 30ppg for his CAREER in an era where EVERY trip to the line was earned by a knock to the ground. If you don’t think an in-prime Jordan could average 40ppg today within the context of the triangle offense, then I gotta send you some game footage.
    Also, Jordan went for 35 in a season before, and 37 in the season before that…

  • Pardeep Posted: Sep.2 at 1:00 am
    @Tavoris: Obviously Mike is the greatest but that doesn’t mean Kobe won’t catch him as a scorer. Mike was a crazy scorer though, he shot like 50 percent for his career in a era where you get knocked down. But that doesn’t mean Kobe is not amazing. If Kobe get hot he will score 90 if Phil lets him. But the only scorers in my mind that come close to Jordan are obviously Wilt and then Kobe,Iverson and Gervin as of right now. I might have missed someone though.?

  • tavoris Posted: Sep.2 at 9:30 am
    Pardeep, a SF named Bernard King was probably more unstoppable as a scorer than Kobe is…if it weren’t for the injuries…but dude got buckets on ANYBODY and EVERYBODY quite easily. And while Kobe does things that nobody else will do, that doesn’t discount in any way how much more dominant Jordan was. Heck, even ‘Nique would average close to 40 in today’s league, with the way he attacked the bucket. Going even further, don’t forget that there were people like Olajuwon, Robinson, Ewing, Mutombo, Kareem, Parish, and Moses Malone guarding the bucket during Jordan’s era. The only player in today’s league that comes close to that defensive dominance is Duncan (no, Howard isn’t there YET).

  • nbk Posted: Sep.2 at 5:37 pm
    tavoris there is no way anyone would average 40 in todays NBA. you don’t know what your talking about, the NBA today is SLOWER then it is ever been, league averages in ppg have dropped almost annually. Once again you are way off base

  • Chendaddy Posted: Sep.17 at 12:17 pm
    I’ve read three articles so far, and two have been much more about nostalgia than why the player is ranked where he is. Tzvi, great that you have these fond memories of and personal connection to Jameer Nelson’s career, but at some point I’d like to hear why you think he’ll be the 48th best player in the NBA next year.

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