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Wednesday, October 2nd, 2013 at 12:00 pm  |  219 responses

Top 50: Al Horford, no. 33

With more touches coming his way in ’13-14, Horford could have a career year.

by DeMarco Williams / @demarcowill

Atlanta Hawks fans, Josh Smith ain’t walkin’ through that door. But DeMarre Carroll, Jared Cunningham and Pero Antic are proudly marching their way into the Philips Arena practice gym. Here comes new head coach Mike Budenholzer, too. There are lots of other new faces prancing about the team media day.

Back in June, fans were expecting Dwight Howard or Chris Paul to be here among the crew. And truth be told, so was Al Horford. The Hawks center, a two-time All-Star who spoke to area sportswriters on September 30 about the coming campaign, thought this past offseason would be the one where a franchise-shifting signing would happen. Unless you consider that person to be Elton Brand, it never materialized.

When you went into the summer, with the cap space and all, is this what you planned in terms of the rest of the roster, or this just how it goes when it comes to free agency?

Al Horford: I think more than anything, it’s just the way that it goes. I think everyone at times can kinda make their own mental picture and things like that about how things should go. This isn’t exactly what I wanted, but at the end of the day, I believe in [Hawks GM] Danny [Ferry] and his vision and where he wants to go.

Beyond the oh-so-subtle front-office stab, you won’t hear much in the way of angst from No. 15. No time. Too much work still needs to get done. Horford, the six-year vet and unofficial leader of this franchise now, needs to get on one accord with new teammates like fellow bruiser Paul Millsap. Old teammates such as Jeff Teague and Lou Williams have to learn new schemes. On top of all that, Horford and everybody else have got to figure out a plan for making up for the 17 points and 8 boards Smith packed with him to Detroit. Of course, knowing Horford’s career point average rose from 15.3 ppg in ’10-11 to a career-high 17.4 ppg last year, Coach Bud may be looking Horford’s way to take up the slack. Big Al seems more than ready for the expanded role.

We saw you working on your three last year. Should we expect you to continue with that?

AH: Yeah, it’s one of those things that I always try to work on—but not only the three. I always try to work on different areas of my game. Once I feel good enough about them, I’ll bring them out. If I’m in a position this year to shoot them, I will. But it’s not like I’m going to be looking for it. I know that I gotta play inside and I know that I gotta play on the elbow. That’s my game. That’s my strength. But it’s good to work on them. You never know when you have to take them.

If the super steady Horford gets any sort of consistent mid- to long-range shot going, the Roy Hibbert and Joakim Noah fan clubs will have zero to talk about when the “Who’s the Best Center in the East” conversation heats back up. ‘Til then, Horford’s more than content with posting up smaller forwards and finessing past slower centers. Beyond the scoring, though, Horford is an underrated playmaker (3.2 assists per night, fourth best among NBA centers) coming off career highs in blocks (1.1) and steals (1.1) in ’12-13. With a lot of last year’s production elsewhere, modest upticks in all of those areas aren’t just welcomed, they’re expected.

Are you concerned about size on the roster?

AH: I’m going to take care of my body as best that I can. I understand and believe what they’re trying to do. I think I’m going to play a little 4—the same as last year. But I agree with you, I was under the impression that some changes were going to happen. They didn’t happen. I have to deal with it. I have to adjust.

Coach Bud keeps talking about building a squad with a high “basketball IQ” and working hard as a team in order to succeed. All of that sounds great on media day transcripts, but when it comes down to the wee moments of the fourth quarter, you need folks who simply get the job done. As of now, the Hawks don’t look to have a lot of those kinds of players on the roster. Horford hasn’t even really been asked to be that guy before. But Smith ain’t walkin’ through that door any more. The time is now for Big Al. And when opportunity knocks this season, Horford’s gonna rip that sucker right off its hinges.


Where should Al Horford rank in the SLAM Top 50?

Loading ... Loading ...
SLAMonline Top 50 Players 2013
Rank Player Team Position Pos. Rank
50 Monta Ellis Mavs SG 5
49 Luol Deng Bulls SF 10
48 Ricky Rubio TWolves PG 14
47 Greg Monroe Pistons PF 12
46 Kawhi Leonard Spurs SF 9
45 Mike Conley Grizzlies PG 13
44 Al Jefferson Bobcats C 9
43 David Lee Warriors PF 11
42 Jrue Holiday Pelicans PG 12
41 Anthony Davis Pelicans PF 10
40 Joe Johnson Nets SG 4
39 Serge Ibaka Thunder PF 9
38 Kevin Garnett Nets PF 8
37 Rudy Gay Raptors SF 8
36 Paul Pierce Nets SF 7
35 Ty Lawson Nuggets PG 11
34 Pau Gasol Lakers PF 7
33 Al Horford Hawks C 8

Rankings are based on expected contribution in ’13-14—to players’ team, the League and the game.

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  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i’m sick. you guys are freaking drunk. he should be about 13 spots higher MINIMUM. did half the people who voted not watch last season?
    .
    click this link, scroll down, check out how good he was in February…..

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/horfoal01/gamelog/2013/#360-370-sum:pgl_basic
    .
    but this is the 33rd best player in the league.
    .
    disgusting.

  • AndyK415

    I agree. What did you have him as on your list?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i have him at 15

  • AndyK415

    Seems about right to me. Plus he’s only the 8th best Center on SLAM’s list…wow.

  • star

    man 7 centers above him?
    TD, hibbert, lopez, howard, gasol, noah, dont tell me DMC or chandler is better then horford

  • http://twitter.com/niQknacks niQ

    Heavily underrated.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Noah, DMC, Chandler, Lopez, Hibbert all are worse than Horford.
    .
    And I can make a pretty damn good argument that Horford is better than Marc Gasol too.
    .
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=horfoal01&y1=2013&p2=gasolma01&y2=2013&p3=lopezbr01&y3=2013&p4=noahjo01&y4=2013&p5=couside01&y5=2013&p6=hibbero01&y6=2013

  • Caboose

    This has to be arguably the worst ranking Slam has ever done.

    1. Horford put up 17-10-3 last year. That’s incredible.
    2. 54% shooting is nothing to sneeze at.
    3. 19.8 PER, 102 DRTG, 110 ORTG, .153 WS/48. All the advanced stats point to someone far better than 33.
    4. With Josh Smith out and Paul Milsap in, Horford will have more and better touches.

    Honestly, what is the justification here? Why so low?

  • star

    i would take gasol by a tiny margin personally
    but yup i agree, very bad ranking

  • Caboose

    I’ll take Marc for defense alone. Hibbert could surpass Horford at some point this year, but that’s definitely far from a sure thing.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    uhm, how much different do you think their defensive abilities are? Horford isn’t playing with the best defensive player at 2 key positions, it’s a lot harder to look great when your helping Jeff Teague, Devin Harris, Kyle Korver, and Louis Williams then it is when you are helping, Mike Conley Jr, Tony Allen, and Tayshun Prince.
    .
    idk who i would take, but the gap between Horford and Gasol is very very very slim. Kevin Durant as a rookie looks huge compared to how slim that margin is.

  • Caboose

    It’s definitely not night and day on defense (one on one, I’d put them about similar), but Marc does work better for team defense. Yes, Grizz have a lot of support for him, but I do think Marc is the 2nd best defensive center in the L (after Dwight when healthy). Horford vs Gasol is really about who fits their team better.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    yeah, i’m not really stressing about Gasol, i totally understand people having him higher. But as you said, the margin is tiny. and that might be an over statement.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    yeah that’s fine. it’s apples to oranges in a sense anyway, Horford should be playing the 4, he should be hedging pick and rolls, and generally funneling players to a rim protector. While Gasol is that rim protector that you would try and funnel guys towards.

  • star

    lol sly dig at KD

  • Caboose

    Put it this way, Horford and Gasol side by side would be excellent.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    speaking of, i have Horford at 15, and Gasol at 16…….

    http://scribbless.com/lists/list/169446

  • Caboose

    Bahaha that’s perfect.

  • Caboose

    Question: why is Melo so high?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i can’t ignore how good he was on offense last season. while a little too inconsistent for *my* tastes, he was still GREAT. and in the regular season, when he is that good, he has a huge effect on his teams ability to win games.
    .
    his shooting % is really misleading, he shot above 47% from inside the 3pt line. But those 6 three point attempts a game messed up his overall %. TS% of .560 was a career high from him last season. His TO% was at an all-time low, while his usage was at an all-time high. his defense was putrid, obviously. but he played 48% of his minutes at PF anyway, where he really really outplays his opponent.

  • Caboose

    I like all of that, but do you really think he’ll have a better year this year? The additions to the team (Artest/Bargs) aren’t going to exactly have a positive effect on Melo, I feel. Not to mention, losing Jason Kidd will sting a bit. Between Felton, Smith, Melo, Bargs, and STAT, there will be far less shots to go around.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    would you stop counting on Amar’e to play? ever? he just had a secret knee surgery…..you really think he’s taking shots from people?
    .
    and if Andrea Bargnani really is as happy as he seems, I’m fairly certain he opens up the court for Melo to play bully ball against SF’s……i would not be surprised if Melo is just as good, if not better than last season. The team just might suffer, because they have forfeited what little defense they had, to make the court even more wide open on the other end.

  • shockexchange

    Al Horford is definitely a top 50 player. At 17 points and 10 rebs, this ranking is appropriate. The bottom line is that to get a high ranking, your play has to lead to team success, i.e. playoff success. When ATL had Horford, Josh Smith and Joe Johnson, everybody drooled about their potential, yet they were middle of the road at best. At some point that “dog gotta catch a rabbit.”

    SE guarantees you that the majority of cats in the Top 20 either (i) put up eye-popping stats or (ii) played on teams that did damage in the playoffs.

  • Caboose

    Well, if we’re going by SLAM rankings, then yes, he’s right where he should be.

    His defense will look worse as the team’s defense declines. His league leading USG% may drop a bit, and in regards to Melo, the lower that dips, the less effective he is.

    I’m not saying he should be dropped down out of the top 15, but I was curious why he was so high when I had him lower. Maybe I just have no faith in this Knicks team.

  • ATL dynamite

    No. 33? Seriously guys?

    The top50 contributors should watch more basketball. Dude is not a LA-type mid range as people often perceived, he is also a banger in the paint. Just a post drive/a couple spins and a righty hook shot, and the next thing you know is a bucket. But I guess a justification is too much to ask for when it’s from a guy saying ‘If the super steady Horford gets any sort of consistent mid- to long-range shot going..’ type of BS.

    Horford also created some serious magic cushion for Jsmoove to commit huge mistakes and pat his own stats. Those who watched our games will know. When Smoove is doing noob moves trying to play hero ball, Horford’s drives and mid ranges were what kept us in the game. One time two seasons before when Horford went down with a pectoral muscle tear and was not available until playoff time (ten-ish games into the season), the whole ATL team was inconsistent as hell (despite the fact that the core guys has been together for seasons, if I’m not wrong it’s the longest in the league at that time). He has always been the anchor of our team, but no one really gave him any justice.

    Horford should be our only guy in the top50 I guess (Although Paul Millsap should also get his name called too imo). He should be somewhere up with Marc Gasol or those kinds of guys, but the truth is that he would only be a couple ranks higher than Pau after his disastrous year considering the stats and dramas surrounding him, and would be lower than guys like Jsmoove or Chandler. Utter disgrace.

  • AndyK415

    I was saying that I couldn’t believe that he was only the 8th best Center. I think he’s better than that.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i think you let what is so frustrating about his game get in the way of what makes him so good. Let me put it this way, the gap between number 6 and 19 is a lot smaller than the gap between number 3 and number 5.

  • TR

    Too low, i didnt even read the write up, but i know this is too low for this guy

  • ATL dynamite

    The point is, what Horford had LAST SEASON was J Smoove, Teague and a bunch of the most mediocre crew (I would almost say a rebuilding roster), and they still managed to get in the playoffs. It should be a more important reference for those top50 contributors

  • ATL dynamite

    The point is, what Horford had LAST SEASON was J Smoove, Teague and a bunch of the most mediocre crew (I would almost say a rebuilding roster), and they still managed to get in the playoffs. It should be a more important reference for those top50 contributors

  • Caboose

    That’s fair. I’ll give you that there are 4 guys in the L who are above the rest, LBJ, KD, CP, Dwight (assuming healthy). Westbrook is knocking at that door, and Rose could come back to crash the party, but I think that’s where it is right now.

  • Caboose

    That’s fair. I’ll give you that there are 4 guys in the L who are above the rest, LBJ, KD, CP, Dwight (assuming healthy). Westbrook is knocking at that door, and Rose could come back to crash the party, but I think that’s where it is right now.

  • Caboose

    So where is LaMarcus Aldridge in your top 50?

  • Caboose

    So where is LaMarcus Aldridge in your top 50?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    yep, agreed.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    yep, agreed.

  • Caboose

    I think the thing about Melo is, he’s incredibly “productive” but doesn’t improve his team the way a top 10 guy should. I think I lose sight of the ranking criteria with Melo in that way.

  • Caboose

    I think the thing about Melo is, he’s incredibly “productive” but doesn’t improve his team the way a top 10 guy should. I think I lose sight of the ranking criteria with Melo in that way.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    uhm, take Melo off the Knicks….do they even make the playoffs? they were a freaking 2 seed last season.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    uhm, take Melo off the Knicks….do they even make the playoffs? they were a freaking 2 seed last season.

  • shockexchange

    SE doesn’t have a top 50. The Shock Exchange’s reaction to 17 points and 10 rebs is “blah.” Horford, Joe Johnson and Josh Smith proved a few years ago that they belong in the top 50 but are nothing to fuss over. If they were top 10 or top 20 even, they would have beaten a weak Cavs team (LeBron and the Pips) and gone to the NBA finals instead.

    SE also wouldn’t compare Aldridge (who has been asked to carry a team) to Horford. Teams don’t show up in ATL thinking “If we wanna win, we gotta stop Al Horford.”

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    so The Shock Exchange just looks at stats and forms his opinion. because The Shock Exchange hates logic.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    so The Shock Exchange just looks at stats and forms his opinion. because The Shock Exchange hates logic.

  • Caboose

    Off? They wouldn’t even be the same team; the offense would completely change. Sub in a different guy from the top 10? Yeah, they’d still make the Playoffs, and probably do better for it. But I always hate these “if x player was on y team” because they’re impossible to prove.

  • Caboose

    Off? They wouldn’t even be the same team; the offense would completely change. Sub in a different guy from the top 10? Yeah, they’d still make the Playoffs, and probably do better for it. But I always hate these “if x player was on y team” because they’re impossible to prove.

  • Caboose

    You said that top 20 guys have either eye popping stats or lead teams deep into the playoffs. Aldridge. Gasol. Defend your criteria.

  • Caboose

    You said that top 20 guys have either eye popping stats or lead teams deep into the playoffs. Aldridge. Gasol. Defend your criteria.

  • shockexchange

    ATL dynamite, The Shock Exchange has spent too much time discussing somebody who averages 17 points and 10 rebs on a middle of the road team. Sorry.

  • shockexchange

    ATL dynamite, The Shock Exchange has spent too much time discussing somebody who averages 17 points and 10 rebs on a middle of the road team. Sorry.

  • TR

    I think the fact that he doesnt play his natural position and is kind of in this teweener role hurts him on lists such as this one. Its kind of like people are scared to call him a top five C or PF so they call him neither.

  • TR

    I think the fact that he doesnt play his natural position and is kind of in this teweener role hurts him on lists such as this one. Its kind of like people are scared to call him a top five C or PF so they call him neither.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    you just said, “doesn’t improve his team the way a top 10 guy should” — so rationally, if you took him off the team, their regression would be minimal. Which i find to be very very very false. Trade Melo with Westbrook, how in the world would they improve? Kobe? Melo just had a PER of 24.6 (4th in the league), i don’t see any logic in thinking a different player outside the top 4 improves the Knicks more than Melo did.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    you just said, “doesn’t improve his team the way a top 10 guy should” — so rationally, if you took him off the team, their regression would be minimal. Which i find to be very very very false. Trade Melo with Westbrook, how in the world would they improve? Kobe? Melo just had a PER of 24.6 (4th in the league), i don’t see any logic in thinking a different player outside the top 4 improves the Knicks more than Melo did.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    which still ignores what he actually does on the court. they are going to put Josh Smith ahead of Al Horford on this list. Anyone who watched the Hawks last season knows that Al Horford was BY FAR their best player.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    which still ignores what he actually does on the court. they are going to put Josh Smith ahead of Al Horford on this list. Anyone who watched the Hawks last season knows that Al Horford was BY FAR their best player.

  • ATL dynamite

    So you would give it all to guys like Kyrie who plays literally no defense and for a twenty-something win Cavaliers, because he has that 23-6-3 stat line? That’s not how it should go pal.

  • ATL dynamite

    So you would give it all to guys like Kyrie who plays literally no defense and for a twenty-something win Cavaliers, because he has that 23-6-3 stat line? That’s not how it should go pal.

  • shockexchange

    Again, the Shock Exchange has spent too much time already discussing someone who averages 17 points and 10 rebs on a middle of the road team. Horford is definitely a top 50 player. But as far as being top 20, “that dog don’t hunt.”

  • shockexchange

    Again, the Shock Exchange has spent too much time already discussing someone who averages 17 points and 10 rebs on a middle of the road team. Horford is definitely a top 50 player. But as far as being top 20, “that dog don’t hunt.”

  • Caboose

    I think that’s also due to how the team is built. They have that big gaping scoring hole at SF and Melo fits it perfectly. In that, the Knicks have maximized Melo’s effectiveness. Which leads me back to my original point: I worry the offseason moves slightly wreck this arrangement. Now that, unfortunately, I cannot prove, but I don’t like the idea of Bargs next to Melo for long stretches.

  • Caboose

    I think that’s also due to how the team is built. They have that big gaping scoring hole at SF and Melo fits it perfectly. In that, the Knicks have maximized Melo’s effectiveness. Which leads me back to my original point: I worry the offseason moves slightly wreck this arrangement. Now that, unfortunately, I cannot prove, but I don’t like the idea of Bargs next to Melo for long stretches.

  • Caboose

    I ask you again, is LaMarcus Aldridge a top 20 player? You say you have no top 50, but you clearly have a top 20, because you have excluded someone from it. Stop waffling and make a declarative statement.

  • ATL dynamite

    100%

  • ATL dynamite

    100%

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    that kind of sounds like an excuse. seems like you just don’t like Melo’s game at all, so you are trying to rationalize why he “seemed” (lack of a better word) like he was soooo good last season.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    that kind of sounds like an excuse. seems like you just don’t like Melo’s game at all, so you are trying to rationalize why he “seemed” (lack of a better word) like he was soooo good last season.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i’m happy you are here today. someone who we know watched the vast majority of Hawks games.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i’m happy you are here today. someone who we know watched the vast majority of Hawks games.

  • shockexchange

    Not sure where this is coming from but, it’s hard for Al Horford to make the argument you’ll making. Horford, Joe Johnson and Josh Smith – if they were top 20 players like the hype suggested – should have dominated the Eastern Conference prior to The Kang leaving Cleveland.

    The Shock Exchange’s grandma grabbed Horford by the collar and said, “Go get me that Eastern Conference Championship boy. Go!” And Horford came back with nothing in his mouth. THAT DOG DON’T HUNT! Now get off SE’s sack.

  • shockexchange

    Not sure where this is coming from but, it’s hard for Al Horford to make the argument you’ll making. Horford, Joe Johnson and Josh Smith – if they were top 20 players like the hype suggested – should have dominated the Eastern Conference prior to The Kang leaving Cleveland.

    The Shock Exchange’s grandma grabbed Horford by the collar and said, “Go get me that Eastern Conference Championship boy. Go!” And Horford came back with nothing in his mouth. THAT DOG DON’T HUNT! Now get off SE’s sack.

  • Caboose

    No no, I think there are certain players in the L who have a perfect niche for themselves on their teams. Melo, Kobe, LeBron, Durant, Harden (as of last season), CP (as of this season) come to mind as guys whose teams have built around them and ensured that their productivity is maximized. On the converse, someone like Deron or Dwight (this last year) could likely have performed better on a different team.

    I like Melo’s game, and I didn’t realize how high his PER was last year. If I were to rank his season LAST year, I’d put him right where you have him. I just don’t see him as doing the same thing again.

  • Caboose

    No no, I think there are certain players in the L who have a perfect niche for themselves on their teams. Melo, Kobe, LeBron, Durant, Harden (as of last season), CP (as of this season) come to mind as guys whose teams have built around them and ensured that their productivity is maximized. On the converse, someone like Deron or Dwight (this last year) could likely have performed better on a different team.

    I like Melo’s game, and I didn’t realize how high his PER was last year. If I were to rank his season LAST year, I’d put him right where you have him. I just don’t see him as doing the same thing again.

  • ATL dynamite

    My pleasure. I really felt the need to explain to these guys the respect that they should give to teams/players that are not under the spotlight.

  • ATL dynamite

    My pleasure. I really felt the need to explain to these guys the respect that they should give to teams/players that are not under the spotlight.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    ok that’s fair. i understand where you are coming from.
    .
    so basically, when you rank players, it’s less about how good they are within their team, more about how good they are in general?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    ok that’s fair. i understand where you are coming from.
    .
    so basically, when you rank players, it’s less about how good they are within their team, more about how good they are in general?

  • TR

    I agree that Horford is one of the top 20 guys in the game I was just saying he gets looked over because he plays out of position and isn’t flashy.

  • TR

    I agree that Horford is one of the top 20 guys in the game I was just saying he gets looked over because he plays out of position and isn’t flashy.

  • Caboose

    That’s a tricky question. I know for THIS ranking, it has to be within the context of their team. And ranking them OUTSIDE of their team is damn near impossible. Ideally, that’s how they’d be ranked though (and what Houston and San Antonio specialize in).

  • Caboose

    That’s a tricky question. I know for THIS ranking, it has to be within the context of their team. And ranking them OUTSIDE of their team is damn near impossible. Ideally, that’s how they’d be ranked though (and what Houston and San Antonio specialize in).

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    well for THIS ranking, how in the world don’t you understand Melo has gotta be a top 10 guy?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    well for THIS ranking, how in the world don’t you understand Melo has gotta be a top 10 guy?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    uhm, Horford has improved since Joe Johnson left. — see, in basketball, people don’t stay the exact same. it’s actually like that with Humans across the board. Maybe, consider that before you put out this ridiculous opinion.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    uhm, Horford has improved since Joe Johnson left. — see, in basketball, people don’t stay the exact same. it’s actually like that with Humans across the board. Maybe, consider that before you put out this ridiculous opinion.

  • ATL dynamite

    You obviously cleared away my miseries by posting repetitive nonsense. Thanks for the contribution!

  • ATL dynamite

    You obviously cleared away my miseries by posting repetitive nonsense. Thanks for the contribution!

  • ATL dynamite

    Got’cha

  • ATL dynamite

    Got’cha

  • LakeShow

    Horford has not proved anything. He’s like Carlos Boozer of yester-year.

    So he had a nice month and a solid year…

    17-10-3 for 44 wins is not top 15 player. Stop it.

    Noah is certainly better.
    DMC is more talented but more nutty, so i’ll give that one.
    Chandler, sure.
    Lopez, no way.
    Hibbert/M.Gasol….. hahahaha!

    Stop trying to make this ranking seem more absurd than it is.
    It’s off by 10 spots or so.

    There is a good chance Pau Gasol outplays him, and his team has more wins than Horford’s next season and you weren’t complaining about his spot yesterday.

    At best Horford put’s up 18-10-3.5-1-1. On a 40 win team.

    Somewhere between 20-30 is appropriate.

  • LakeShow

    Horford has not proved anything. He’s like Carlos Boozer of yester-year.

    So he had a nice month and a solid year…

    17-10-3 for 44 wins is not top 15 player. Stop it.

    Noah is certainly better.
    DMC is more talented but more nutty, so i’ll give that one.
    Chandler, sure.
    Lopez, no way.
    Hibbert/M.Gasol….. hahahaha!

    Stop trying to make this ranking seem more absurd than it is.
    It’s off by 10 spots or so.

    There is a good chance Pau Gasol outplays him, and his team has more wins than Horford’s next season and you weren’t complaining about his spot yesterday.

    At best Horford put’s up 18-10-3.5-1-1. On a 40 win team.

    Somewhere between 20-30 is appropriate.

  • LakeShow

    Hibbert is twice the defender that Horford is and he is going to be scoring over 15ppg this season so I don’t get why you don’t think he is already better, but whatevs..

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Another person who doesn’t actually watch the team play that thinks the box score tells the whole story. Great. Wanna rationalize your feelings with more than his per game averages? In what way is Joakim Noah better? Lopez? Hibbert? I am happy you think you know what you are talking about, I wanted someone to disagree. This is not the argument you want right now, Go ahead, explain your feelings…. .
    And would you quit it about Pau? I said could be higher, could be lower. We don’t KNOW how good he will be. And your Laker loving ass being convinced of something is hardly a reason for anyone else to change their opinion. Especially considering the whole defensive aspect of the Horford/Gasol comparison. Nobody outside of the Lakers fandumb thinks Gasol is better than Horford at this point.

  • LakeShow

    lol, well articulated.
    ……………………………………………..

    Let me similarly articulate.

    You’re wrong, i’m right.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Thought so

  • Mike Gilbert

    his low contract should count towards his ranking

  • LakeShow

    …Waiting…

    So you’re not going to explain why Al Horford is better than Noah, Hibbert, and Lopez, it’s just fact because you said so…

    You win… ?

  • spit hot fiyah

    so are u doing copy paste for write ups now? that was a bail out

    and the he is too low. funny thing how he was considered a much better pro prospect that noah when they came out and now it seems like the tide has turned

  • spit hot fiyah

    this is slam, so i guess justification is not needed. easier to copy paste an interview

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    I didn’t respond to you. You tell me I’m wrong, state your case. I don’t have to jump because you asked me to. You say I’m wrong, support your opinion.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Listing per game stats, saying its laughable to say he’s better than Hibbert. The guy who just out up worse numbers than Horford ACROSS THE BOARD. And I have to explain myself, but you don’t. Sure.

  • Pingback: SLAM ONLINE | » Top 50: Andre Iguodala, No. 32

  • Caboose

    Is your rank based on Slam criteria?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Sort of, no contribution to the game nonsense tho

  • NBAfreak

    This ranking is a joke. Al Horford gets better as each season progresses…He also just came back from a pectoral muscle injury the season before and he comes putting up career high stats. And he has a high IQ. Come on,”experts”. Just because he plays for Atlanta Hawks,he deserves to be in the top 25 at best.

  • Caboose

    On a sheer PRODUCTION value, yes. Melo is easily top 10.

  • LakeShow

    So you don’t have reasoning?

    You say i’m wrong, support your reasoning…

    Neither of us can “prove” our point.

    But since you’re being a bum…

    Noah scores 12ppg while not getting any plays ran for him. He’s grabbing over 11 boards a game now and protecting the paint as a shot blocking force. He can also guard perimeter players for short burst with maximum effectiveness. He has more heart than maybe anyone else in the L. He will put his life on the line to win a basketball game. Some of those things are hard to quantify with numbers or stats obviously, but anyone who watches know’s this to be true.

    Noah is better than Horford because of his intangibles and higher level of defense.

    Hibbert has proved on the biggest stage that he is a dominant force on both sides of the ball. He is twice the presence in the paint that Horford is, he showed he can score just as well on the biggest stage and has been the vocal and physical leader of a team that just took the champs to 7 games.

    Marc Gasol is once again, like the two above a much better defender. He is the vocal center-point of a team that has a chance to go to the West Finals. He has shown that he is a better passer and more versatile offensive player. With a jumper out to 20 feet. A hook shot over either shoulder, runners, and great foot work in the post.

    They are better players with better teams. They are better.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    I think you guys let what happens in the playoffs cloud your judgment a little too much on the regular season. Guys who dominate in the playoffs get very overrated in the total rankings. Like Roy Hibbert for example, a guy who totally takes advantage of match up problems in the post season, but hasn’t proven to be able to on a consistent basis during the season.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Thank you, I am on the road (have been most the morning, kind of why I didn’t go deeper in the first place), will be back in the office within the hour. I will justify everything about what I’ve said from my end. Your reasoning is fair if that’s how you look at it, I just wanted an explanation to why you disagreed with me. Now I will explain (but I need more than my phone to adequately state my case, so be a little patient please).

  • danpowers

    nice write up and appropriate rank. thanks slam.

  • LakeShow

    Cool, Hear from ya soon.

    I’m curious, I really don’t think Horford is top 20. I want to hear your reasoning more than I want to articulate mine.

    Bron
    KD
    CP3
    Howard
    Kobe
    Rose
    Westbrook
    Wade
    Parker
    M. Gasol
    LA
    George
    James Harden
    Steph Curry
    Hibbert
    Williams
    Carmelo
    Dirk
    Kyrie Irving
    Love
    Rondo
    Duncan
    Noah
    *Horford
    Lopez

    That’s the top 25 for me.

    Lopez is highly debatable, but I feel he may be a smidgen better than Horford. It’s too close for me to care though.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    ok i’m back.. putting it together now.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    First, the Atlanta Hawks record with Al Horford, vs their record without him (to show how truly valuable he was to that team, which talent was piss poor)

    w/ Al Horford — 42 wins, 32 losses

    w/out Al Horford — 2 wins, 6 losses

    – The Hawks as a team, in terms of on-court/off-court production were +7.7 points per 48 minutes better with Al Horford on the court (+295 points on the season)

    —— The Hawks as a team, shot an effective FG% of 53.3% with Al Horford, compared to 48.2% without him. He made the offense and defense, significantly better. His effect on his team was very pronounced.

    - As we all know, Horford was returning from a torn pectoral muscle at the beginning of the season, so he started a bit slow, averaging just 16 points and 10 rebounds before the All Star Break.

    -

    2nd Half of Season (After All Star Break)

    - (19.7PPG) – (11.1RPG) – (3APG) – (1.3SPG) – (1.2BPG) – 55% shooting

    – No player in the NBA averaged 20 and 10 last season. That’s how good Al Horford’s second half was…..when he was 100% healthy.
    .
    Even if you want to look at his playoff series against Indiana, where he was playing against your boy Roy Hibbert (who you say is laughably better), Horford was actually the better player.

    Al Horford, 16.7 PPG – 8.8 RPG – 3.0 APG – 1.1 SPG – 0.8 BPG – .494% shooting
    vs
    Roy Hibbert, 14.7 PPG – 8.8 RPG – 1.7 APG – 0.2 SPG – 1.8 BPG – .478% shooting

    (onto Joakim Noah next)

  • davidR

    just really quickly — that’s a small sample size to prove how bad the hawks were without horford.

    personally, i love horford’s game. but i do think joakim edges him out. what noah did last season, especially in the playoffs, while injured, was incredible. as lake mentioned above, noah’s ability to guard pretty much every position, anchor the defense (and dominate) — i would take noah over horford. no knock on big al tho.

    gasol and horford is interesting, because gasol has pretty much played with the same core for so long. each position is stacked too. either way, i think they’re a wash, but most people would prefer gasol.

    i would easily take horford over hibbert and chandler

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    that’s why i put his on-court/off-court. i can’t make up numbers here. all i have is a small sample size to show. – and i don’t like speculating, i like using the information i have at my disposal. all i can do is present it, if you disagree you disagree. i just want people to actually LOOK at the numbers and facts before they make wild assumptions.
    .
    LIke i bet Lake had no idea Al Horford actually outplayed Hibbert in the first round. Because he saw Hibbert dominate the Heat last, so that obviously sticks out most in his memory.

  • Max

    So I guess Millsap isn’t making the list?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    ok, Joakim isn’t going to work. Statistically Horford looks way way better than Noah. And I’m not trying to present a false truth. I see where you are coming from there, but there is just not a single stat in existence that makes Noah look like he’s even Horford’s equal. So we’ll have to just settle on disagreeing here, i’m not trying to put facts up against intangibles.

  • davidR

    oh i get you, you’re working with what’s available. i did add to my response, but yea. al is criminally underrated.

    seems like the under the radar guys will consistently get screwed. i wonder why……

    btw, where do you think westbrook lands? the list had to have been finished a while back, but knowing that he’s still going to be out for 4-6 weeks, do you think he regains top 15 status by season end?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    the meniscus surgery is/was very very minor. and the repair done 2 days ago was just to re-attach a suture. it wasn’t a structural surgery at all. i still think he’s a top 10 player as soon as he gets back in rhythm, just can’t jump back to playing at full speed right after having your knee cut open.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    no matter how you say it with Noah it’s an intangible thing. his value guarding multiple positions and everything like that is really really great. but i can’t show him statistically making a larger impact than Horford no matter how hard I try. and i think it’s close between them, I just prefer Horford’s ability to anchor both an offense and defense over Noah’s never ending energy and ability to guard every human being on earth on the other end.

  • LakeShow

    I think, and I would hope others realize, 12-11-4-2 on 50+% with better defense is quite comparable to 17-10-3-1 on 54% to me. As far as overall talent goes.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    I don’t see how Marc Gasol is “a much better defender” ? wanna prove that, or explain? as i said to Caboose, it’s a lot different helping Teague/Harris/Korver/Williams/Stevenson then it is helping Conley/Allen/Prince/Pondexter …… A LOT different. so of course from the outside looking in, Gasol will look a lot better. He has a lot more defensive help.
    .
    Offensively, there is no way you can really justify saying Gasol is more versatile then Horford. Horford shot 54% from the field, shooting over 5 attempts a game from between 16-23 feet. The dude was even practicing adding a 3pt shot to his repertoire, while Gasol doesn’t even shoot 50% from the field altogether. Offensively, Gasol is better at 2 things, scoring with his back to the basket, and passing. Other than that, Horford has the edge as a shooter, as a face-up player, he takes better care of the ball, sh*t, he even shoots 10% at the rim 76.6% to 67.1%

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    yeah, if you just look at the box score. again, which doesn’t really paint a very good picture of how good AL Horford was last season.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    man, you really don’t understand that Horford is one of the best defensive bigs in the league do you?

  • shockexchange

    SLAM ranked him 33 not SE. SE was just trying to explain the rationale behind the ranking.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    there is no rationale behind the ranking. it’s a composite of 40 different people doing ranking. i know that one of the voters for instance left Kobe off the top 50 altogher. you wanna explain the rationale when he ends up top 10 again?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    go back and read my explanation to Lake when you get a chance. if there are holes in what i’m saying, i would like someone to point them out. and Lake doesn’t seem to want to do anything but look at season long averages.

  • shockexchange

    Debating Horry Jr would be a re-direct of the conversation, so the Shock Exchange will pass on that. If SLAM had put Horford in its top 20 then it would have opened itself up the following criticisms:

    (i) The low stats. 17 and 10 is not compelling on the face of it.
    (ii) Why Horford’s teams are always middle of the road. Even when they had Josh Smith and Joe Johnson they let “LeBron and the Pips” take the Eastern Conference.
    (iii) Nobody game plans for Horford. Nobody comes into a game thinking, “How we gon’ stop Al Horford?”

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    (i) the low stats say about 1/10th of the story.
    (ii) because that’s how talented his teams are, after you add him in. before that, they are putrid.
    (iii) actually, Al Horford is the whole gameplan of other teams. Which is why Indiana won the 4 games where they keyed in on Horford during the playoffs….the games that they didn’t?

    22.5 PPG 10.7 RPG 2.5APG 53% shooting.
    .
    kind of a glaring example of why the Hawks, a 6 seed, did just as good against the Pacers as the Knicks…..a 2 seed
    .
    .
    Shock, this is all much more complicated then simple box scores. And pretty clearly you don’t actually watch, you just judge based on a stat line. How often do I say things without reasoning behind it? you aren’t talking to yourself here.

  • LakeShow

    Is it outplaying someone to have roughly the same impact on the game?

    Horfords 17-9-3-1-1 is not statically really any better than Hibberts 15-9-2-0-2 IMO. Especially considering that the Hawks first option or at least option #1b(depending on how you view Smith) was Horford while Indiana’s is George first, then West, then Hill and then trickling down to Hibbert. You can say that’s his fault for not demanding the ball and taking advantage of opponents more, but they have allot more talent than the Hawks for scoring.

    Horford had one big game that series. He had 26-16-2-2 on 60%.

    The rest of the series Hibbert outplayed him…

    So imo not really a point.

  • LakeShow

    Nope, I don’t.

    I’d take LA, Gasol, Howard, Tyson, Hibbert, Noah, Duncan and a slew of other ahead of him.

  • shockexchange

    80% – 85% of these rankings should be stat-based and about 20% – 15% subjective.

    “because that’s how talented his teams are, after you add him in. before that, they are putrid.” <— This argument here, that Horford plays on a bad team is null and void. That's why SE keeps harping on that ATL team with Horford, Joe Johnson and Josh Smith. They were way more talented than the Cavs. Outside LeBron, that Cavs team was trash, "gone with the wind trash" and Horford and the Hawks still couldn't get done.

    They didn't get it done cause THAT DOG DON'T HUNT.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    LOL you don’t understand how being more productive AND more efficient while being the first/second option is outplaying a guy who was less productive and less efficient while being a first/second option on his team (yes, Hibbert was the first/second option, he just played 50 less minutes then George….which is an ENTIRE GAME, of course he attempted less shots).
    .
    i mean, really to argue that Hibbert wasn’t his teams first or second option in the first round is to just argue flatly that you didn’t watch the series……

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    wow you don’t watch Atlanta at all. what a waste of time this has been.

  • LakeShow

    I’d have to use advance stats and I hate most of those. Stupid things like “defensive rating, plus minus, PER” Bull Sh*t like that.

    How your team does when you aren’t in the game or took the night off really tell nothing of whats actually going on in the game.

    Marc is just as good at moving his feet to stay in front of quick players as Horford. If not better. He is also a better lane clogger/shot blocker. He is just as quick in my eyes also. He can defend both front court positions better than Horford can.

    But that’s all just what I SEE. Go ahead and beat me down with Horford’s better PER, or defensive rating or whatever…

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Horford wasn’t this good then……that’s the whole thing about being a human….you improve at things.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    yeah, it’s all based on what you “see”. and since you rarely see Horford play (which is obvious at this point) your opinion is clearly coming from a place of extreme ignorance.

  • shockexchange

    Interpretation: Horford ain’t catch a rabbit then, he ain’t ever caught a rabbit. THAT DOG DON’T HUNT WELL ENOUGH TO BE CONSIDERED TOP 20.

  • LakeShow

    Oh you are arguing strictly in the 1st round of playoffs… Good to know.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    that is when they matched up with one another……that is what i said, “LIke i bet Lake had no idea Al Horford actually outplayed Hibbert in the first round.”
    .
    we are to that point where you start yanking at straws because your argument has about as much depth as a kiddie pool huh?

  • LakeShow

    Either that, or you view the Hawks too much. You seem to think Al Horford is something special… You sound like me arguing for Kobe right now.

    He’s just not that good dude.

  • LakeShow

    lol, as apposed to your argument of “Horford is really really good! I swear”

  • LakeShow

    Or a place of allot less Al Horford jerking off…

  • LakeShow

    You are absolutely correct on this one. NOT A TOP 20 player.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    exactly my point. i showed you a ton of information to back up my argument. which you just tried to pass off as irrelevant, now i’m “just saying he is really really good” because, again, you have nothing to argue with.
    .
    and i was respectful to your explanation and defense. you on the other hand? deal with being argued against and shown facts like a little child. pretty pathetic if you ask me.

  • shockexchange

    Lake you just gave the Shock Exchange a heart attack. Next time send him a warning before you agree with him. That was a dirty thing to do.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    ahh cute….any other fallacies you wanna fall back on?
    .
    “i don’t like stats, i trust my eyes!”
    .
    “he’s not that good, you are just jacking him off”
    .
    “oh just the first round, so you aren’t counting when Hibbert destroyed Chris Bosh and Udonis Haslem…how unfair”
    .
    anything else you got in that big intelligent brain of yours? keep bringing the substance. you sure are proving your point.

  • Your Conscience

    You’re an impolite person. You’re condescending and essentially always resort to calling the other person stupid, which is why you always lose your arguments.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    LOL

  • Dundler

    Remember how Hibbert started last year? He was GARBAGE. When he shot 7 times or over, he had over 50% FG 6 times in the first 41 games. Playoffs make people forget

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Question: is that you in “Halo: Blue vs Red”?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Yeah, I mean I think Hibbert is going to have a much better season. But he’s probably not going to just become some dominant force for 82 games because he dominated two really bad low post defenses and gained 30lbs

  • Dundler

    He’ll be better, but likely he’s still a postseason player who takes advantage of the right situation. Which is a shame, because I like his skillset. If he was agressive he could be good against decent inside defences too

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    It’s not really practical to ask him to dominate during the course of a whole season. David West and Paul George, especially if Danny Granger comes back, with how well rounded the rest of the team is can handle the load just fine….it just doesn’t make sense to ask Hibbert to do that much….even IF he can. That’s what “people” (hi @Lakeshow) don’t get. And don’t care to even consider as a possibility, even though Frank Vogel proved that to be the freaking plan again last season….

  • Dundler

    I don’t think he needs to dominate. As you outline, 20 points a game or so, simply isn’t required from him. But he does need to be better than he was in last year’s first half. Whether thats efficiency or whatever, but he did get paid the big bucks

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    al horford needs to train under karl malone and the hawks need to start a center instead of millsap.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    that;s it slam im doing the top 20

    Lebron
    Kevin Durant
    Harden
    Westbrook
    Rose
    Howard
    Chris Paul
    Paul George
    Melo
    Duncan
    Kevin Love
    Bryant
    Wade
    Marc Gasol
    Step Curry
    Dirk
    Joakim Noah
    Deron Williams
    Griffin
    Parker

  • Caboose

    Literally nobody takes your opinion seriously. Nobody. Just go away; you aren’t even an entertaining troll.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    why not? why do you name call

  • Caboose

    Why what?

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    why dont you examine my top 20

  • Caboose

    You got the first 2 right.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    what makes you think the rest are wrong?

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    check out my top 20 brodette

  • Caboose

    Honestly, you’re gonna wanna see this.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    You have Chris Paul at like 9…..no

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    atl dynamite do you go to georgia state or georgia tech? also do you have a friend named jeff?

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    dude why are you so high on him

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    him and deron havent done anything

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    rajon is better than both without a jumper

  • Caboose

    Fine, I’ll actually do it.

    1. Harden’s defense isn’t even in the top 50 of players in the L. He is exceptionally talented offensively, but is not defensively. The 3rd best in the NBA cannot be mediocre defensively.

    2. Derrick Rose is coming back from a huge injury. While I think he’ll be just fine coming back, top 5? Already? No.

    3. Chris Paul as the 3rd best point guard in the L. No.

    4. I LOVE Paul George’s game, but he will not produce nearly as much as Carmelo will. Like, no.

    5. Dirk is way too high. Especially coming off of an injury. On the topic of PF’s, where is LaMarcus Aldridge?

    6. Tony Parker at 20. He’s in the top 10 and that really isn’t arguable at this point.

    7. Joakim Noah is not better than Al Horford. Period. For sources, please see discussion with nbk.

  • Caboose

    This, THIS is why no one respects you.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    yeah dirk was a stretch but rose had a year to recover. Noah provides better defensive presence. I think george will produce based on his new status as franchise player. Harden set it off last year. His defense may not be great, but with two towers behind him, it’ll allow him to gamble and increase his steals.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Google him or something. I don’t want to explain, if you can’t tell I just assume you don’t know anything about basketball. And I don’t have time to teach you the sport, go play it competitively, that’s the first step and best step towards learning what you need to know. It’s by far the fastest route to take as well. Or just read read read read, go to David Thorpe he’s a real coach, he’s smart, and he has a good reputation around the league.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Are you trying to get me to insult you?

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    parker isn’t even a top 5 pg position wise

  • Caboose

    Join us up above, I’ll give you the next crack at it.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    I’m not getting into it with him. I’m already dealing with a blabbering 19 month old. I got enough nonsense on my life.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    So you don’t think I play ball, your in for a surprise. Are you able catch a flight to Atlanta?

  • Caboose

    I’ve taken the liberty of compiling a list of the most stupid sh!t you’ve said. Let’s have a countdown!

    15. LeBron is a point guard.

    14. Kawhi Leonard is currently better than Andre Iguodala both on offense and defense.

    13. Kobe more talented than Jordan and T-Mac as the 7th most talented player of all time.

    12. Rajon Rondo is better than Chris Paul.

    11. Rudy Gay outclasses Iggy, Pierce, and Josh Smith.

    10. Dirk would beat Jordan 1 on 1.

    9. Oden will play heavy minutes and contribute regularly.

    8. PER is foolish because it’s impossible to contextualize.

    7. LeBron has the ability next season to win MVP, DPOY, 6th Man, and Most Improved.

    6. Wade with only 1 ring would not be in the HOF.

    5. Nick Young is or could be a franchise SG.

    4. The best way to compare players is to simulate them cloned and have them play 2 on 2.

    3. Tony Parker is not a top 5 point guard.

    2. Prime Ray Allen would smash prime Dwyane Wade.

    and, for #1…

    1. Chris Paul is not a franchise changing point guard.

    Thanks for reading, everyone.

  • Caboose

    Congrats on that btw. I did compile a list of his most stupid sh!t…

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Not at a very high level. And no. I’m an adult, I am not interested in leaving my family to find out if a guy with a “weird” opinion can actually hoop.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    I’m referring to Kobe this season not all time

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Haha thanks. And I saw, dudes just saying things, I don’t think there is any real thought or reasoning being put behind it.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    No way he said that about Nick Young….I can’t breath

  • Caboose

    I’m not sure what that is in reference to…

  • Caboose

    My favorite part is that he’s not refuting any of it.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    15. Lebron has no position. When he entered the league he was a pg. and still runs point

    14. Kawhi is better

    12 Rajon is better

    11. Rudy gay with corrected vision will be top 4 sf in the league

    10. You’ve obviously never thought about style of play. Larry bird could beat Jordan.

    9. Oden should play heavy minutes if he makes 900 grand

    8. The formulas behind PER can’t account for the qualitative data. Like team chemistry.

    7. I said Lebron could if spolestra didn’t start him but obviously not happening

    6. I corrected wade remark

    5. Nick young could have won titles if he had Shaq, Fischer, fox, Harry, grant around him

  • Caboose

    Give reasons, you moron. Saying sh!t means nothing. And giving a player’s salary is not proof.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    4. Lol no I never said actually cloning them. But the best way to simulate whose better would require you incorporate their playmaking ability.

    3. Westbrook, rose, Paul, deron, rondo > Parker

    2. Ray Allen on the bucks or early days sonics would go super saiyan on wade. You must have forgot ray when he had bounce.

    1. So whose better Steve Francis or Paul. What has Paul achieved that makes him franchise worthy. When you have stack your roster bring in a head coach to win- is it really paul or the environment.

    If Paul played when iverson, Marbury, Francis, jkidd, Terrell Brandon, Nash— Paul wouldn’t be what you think.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Judging by #5 on his list, this is Ralph Baker Jr. And I’m not saying that like “Horry Jr” I’m saying it like its a person who would say “Horry Jr”s son

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    Ok I agree with that.

    But oden will play he’s rested how many years

  • Caboose

    Why? Why will he magically play now? REASONS. Don’t put that on me by asking “how many years”. Prove it yourself. If you wanna actually have your opinion valued, you’ve gotta back up what you say.

  • Caboose

    Paul is currently the best PG in the L right now and it’s not really close. Aside from saying “he hasn’t accomplished anything,” actually make a reasoned argument. I actually wanna hear you try. Convince me. If you won’t, I’ll make you look foolish. You mount a good argument? I’ll leave you alone.

  • Caboose

    Tell you what, catch a flight to Berkeley and we’ll do some one on one. Or clone ourselves, then play, because that’s the best way to see who’s better right?

  • danpowers

    1. on a solid but mediocore team not translating into too many wins which dooms him to fly under the radar.

    2. yup

    3. some centers ahead dont rlly have to fear a comparison – not when you consider that this is about upcoming season. hibbert did pretty well by the end of the season and was strong in the playoffs. howard, noah and gasol doesnt have to be explained. cousins should have his best year so far. lopez will most likely be the 2nd option on offense for a contending team. maybe you help me with who i forgot (is slam going to list sanders as center and ahead of horford? well, that would be nonsense or if pekovic makes the cut ahead of him that would be f*cked up, too)

    4.are you sure? just look at the shot charts from millsap, brand and horford, thats pretty similar and i wonder how they are going to make that work properly.

    i was hoping for horford to finally get a center next to him so that he could play the 4, in that case i wouldve expected a higher rank. he wouldve been able to dominate most 4 physically and propell his stats if he could play that 4 spot permanently. but i dont see him MUCH higher on that list. i forgot one center here, so i think 7 would be a better positional rank for him. but 1 rank too low isnt that much of a tragedy imo.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk
  • Caboose

    Excellent.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Hold on wait lol, when did Carlos Boozer ever lead a team to the playoffs? He took a team as far as Carmelo Anthony did (I mean against the Pacers*) as clearly it’s best player……..

  • ATL dynamite

    No, and no lol. Why the guess?

  • shutup

    lol

  • shutup

    What sport are you watching?

  • shutup

    You are f-ing killing me today, this cloning ish got me chucklin like a donkey

  • shutup

    You left off Parker on the Spurs for that perfect niche list….

  • ATL dynamite

    With Smoove gone and Ayon/Antic in the lineup, Horford should get more minutes in the PF position. I know you are thinking ‘Ayon/Antic, whatttt?’, but last year when Horford had Petro at C and Smoove out of the court, Horford was obviously playing way better, to the point that it makes Petro (PETRO!) looks like a true pro. Ayon proved himself in FIBA a month ago, Antic is a poor man’s Pekovic, it’s an automatic yet underrated upgrade from last year’s roster. But of course, the Hawks need to obtain a legitimate C to make it all happen; only Ayon/Antic/Petro would not cut it.

  • Armando

    Way too low. Top centers the coming season:
    Howard
    Gasol M
    Horford
    Lopez
    Hibbert
    Gasol P

    Noah

  • danpowers

    i really dont know antic and hope you are right. i just dont see that coming as millsap and brand will also play quite some minutes and could very well combine for around 40 a game. so if they wont deal with major injuries i wouldnt expect horford to spend more than a maximum of 10 mins a game at center.

  • Caboose
  • Drig

    …….NO.

    This is embarrassing. Especially when you consider all the points and touches up for grabs in Atlanta and the lack of any franchise player, Horford is gonna see a HUGE spike in his production.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    truuuuuuuuue

  • LakeShow

    This guy just enjoys hearing himself stay stupid sh*t obviously…

  • LakeShow

    Yes, you put up allot of facts. Facts are really nice. They just don’t always mean a whole lot.

    Of course the f*cking Hawks were terrible with-out Horford. Why wouldn’t they be?

    I am sure the Grizzlies are just as bad with-out Marc in their line-up. Right? The Bulls are probably way worse offensively and defensively with-out Noah. Which site do you use to look that up? Hoop-Data?

    I’m sure the numbers are similar with these other guys. That’s why I “dismissed” your facts.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    (+2.2) points per 48 minutes with Noah. The offense is 3 points worse, the defense is 5 points better. like i said, i understand your Noah argument, I just don’t want to compare them statistically because it isn’t fair to NOAH. Horford just looks so much better that it’s a false truth. I want to state my case, but I don’t want my case to be an over exaggeration. So I didn’t post it.
    .
    (+10.7) for Gasol. And as I said multiple times, my argument isn’t against Gasol. i understand ranking him higher, i just think the difference between him and Horford is marginal. As I explained all over the place.
    .
    (+7.5) for Brook Lopez. His strengths help the team offensively more than anything, so I didn’t really use his either. Him and Horford look even in terms of On-Court/Off-Court value (i’m not going to make a fuss about 0.2 points per 48 minutes), I just think Horford is better and will have a better season because he carries A LOT more responsibility for Atlanta, and he’s a better defensive player. But I am not tripping on that one either.
    .
    but really, did you realize Horford was THAT good when he was 100% healthy? be honest.

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