Saturday, February 11th, 2012 at 2:55 pm  |  151 responses

War Veterans Protesting in Orlando For All-Star Game Tickets


With All-Star Weekend in Orlando steadily approaching, many fans are getting excited for the big event(s), a group that apparently excludes a bunch of war veterans who have been protesting outside of City Hall and demanding that city officials give up their tickets to the game. MyFoxOrlando has more: “A large crowd of war veterans and their supporters gathered in front of Orlando City Hall on Friday to protest Orlando and Orange County leaders attending the NBA All-Star Game at the Amway Center later this month. They offered a public plea to Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer, Orange County Mayor Teresa Jacobs and other community leaders, asking that they hand over their tickets to constituents. ‘Their job is to serve the public, not to benefit from the public,’ said Vietnam War veteran Thomas Pastore. A supporter of veterans’ rights, Jordan Montgomery, said giving those who have sacrificed for our county special perks like a coveted All-Star Game ticket is, ‘Just one way that we can thank them for everything they’ve done for us.’ ‘I want them to sacrifice, what they treasure so much right now is those NBA All-Star tickets,’ said Pastore. ‘I want them to sacrifice… understand what it’s about to give these tickets to veterans.’ Mayor Jacobs has said that county leaders went to great lengths to bring the NBA All-Star Game to Orlando and that is was duty to host clients at the game. The mayor’s office also said they are giving 16 tickets to foster children.”

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  • http://sdjfklf.com Jukai

    … no… nope, that really doesn’t explain anything. I actually have no idea why you posted that. Was that in response to shutup?
    We’re in Afghanistan because we were attacked by a group that harbors, trains, arms, and shares leadership with the group that attacked us.
    You’re comparing the UN-led coalition to aid the Libyan rebels, who asked for help to oust their insane dictator, to the Spanish wiping out native Americans?
    You have no real ability to gauge reality, do you?

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    ^ I was waiting for this. Please continue. Why was the US justified in bombing Libya and killing over 1000 civilians last spring? Please.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    And what made Gaddafi an “insane dictator” compared the the rest of the dictators the United States supports? Please answer this as well and I’ll get back to you.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    (btw the US wiped out Natives too, you know…)

  • http://www.t-mac.com/tmac/index unf*ckwitable

    @Jukai, shut up dude, your 5.15pm comment rules you out of this argument. Your a dumb f*ck.

  • http://sdjfklf.com Jukai

    unf*ckwitable: Very useful debating skills, d*uchenozzel.
    Teddy: Give me a link where you have the number of over a thousand civilian casualties. Don’t ignore my request this time. The -United Nations- went into Libya because the Libyan rebels were asking for help to overthrow the regime which was systematically killing its civilians. Was their ulterior motives behind the outing, ie putting in a friendlier regime in place of one that actively hates us? Yes. Was it a bad decision to help those who were being eradicated by a crazy regime? I’d say so. This isn’t an Iraq issue.
    There clearly has been some bumbling recently, but there seems to be a lot of unclear or misinformation. I know we bombed a TV station which was an utter failure on our military, but there was the bombing of the hospital which was immediately blamed on the US which does not appear to be actually bombed. From someone who is so quick to be skeptical, you sure do jump on the US.
    Good strawman argument over the US wiping out the Indians. Totally relevant.

  • http://sdjfklf.com Jukai

    Also, I don’t get what gives Gadaffi validation because the US supports dictators who are just as bad. That’s just such an awful argument. How about putting your frustrations over the US supporting evil dictators instead of the US helping rebels free themselves of their own?

  • http://slamonline.com. datkid

    I was gonna stay away from this thread bc I honestly felt as though I didn’t know enough. But reading it has given me a new respect for shutup.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    @ Jukai: You know nothing. Seriously, just stop pretending. The US supports dictators far worse than Muammar Gaddafi, and it’s not even comparable. Gaddafi, while far from perfect, actually managed to develop Libya independently without foreign aid (ie. crippling loans from the IMF–one of the leading factors for African underdevelopment which you don’t think exists). Libya had the highest human development index in all of Africa and one of the highest in the Middle East, far better than Saudi Arabia and Bahrain (the US’ biggest Arab puppets). The average Libyan had a life expectancy of 72 years–that’s as good if not better than most developed nations. Libyans had free access to universal healthcare (something Americans still don’t have) and the literacy rate is 88%. 99% of all Libyan youths are literate, and girls outnumber boys in post-secondary institutions by 10%. He did wonders for women’s rights and vehemently opposed Al Qaeda and other Muslim extremist elements. Libyans had subsidized housing, government dowries for newlyweds and new born babies. He also led the construction of the world’s largest system of underwater pipes and aqueducts in the world, the “Great Manmade River,” which supplies 6,500,000 m^3 of fresh water per day to Libyans. He has/had support from the largest tribe in Libya, and immediately after NATO’s bombing campaign, had an approval rating of 85%, a number NO American president has even come close to sniffing.
    Libya was one of a handful of countries that did not have an essentially foreign-bought, Rothschild-owned central bank, and actually sought for a decent proportion of oil revenue instead of pr0stituting their resources for cheap to the West. This is why he was overthrown like so many other leaders of the Global South. If you think for a second that the West/NATO gave a damn about saving civilians, you’re seriously mentally impaired.
    Yet Muammar Gaddafi is the “insane dictator”?

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    I don’t think you realize how monumental an achievement that is, to be able to develop a nation in North Africa/the Middle East without foreign intervention and to do so successfully. Of course that means nothing to you, as evident by your wish to see Afghanistan leveled. But I’ll play your game because it’s fun to make you look stupid.
    From the Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/oct/26/libya-war-saving-lives-catastrophic-failure

  • http://www.slamonline.com spit hot fiyah

    teddy just owned this whole thread, and jukai , your comment about how little u care about afghanistan is the worst comment i have ever seen on this site, u know afghanis r human beings right?

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    @ Jukai: NATO has (wisely, I suppose) refused to count civilian death tolls against civilians by rebels and their own air strikes. Moussa Ibrahim, a government spokesperson had an estimate of 2000 civilians killed by NATO air strikes–which NATO denies of course, but doesn’t dare conduct its own investigations. The death toll is probably somewhere close to Ibrahim’s estimate, though, because NATO has completely decimated Sirte, a city of 100,000 people. Sirte is Gaddafi’s hometown and one of the places most loyal to Gaddafi.
    “investigator in Libya, Peter Bouckaert, told me yesterday that more bodies are continuing to be discovered in Sirte, where evidence suggests about 500 people, civilians and fighters, have been killed in the last 10 days alone by shooting, shelling and Nato bombing.
    That has followed a two month-long siege and indiscriminate bombardment of a city of 100,000 which has been reduced to a Grozny-like state of destruction by newly triumphant rebel troops with Nato air and special-forces support.”

  • http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm Gametimeweezy

    WTF was EJ talking about at 4:13pm…. “EJ Posted: Feb.11 at 4:13 pm
    I don’t understand why people in America thank their war veterans for protecting their country, when pretty much always they’re just bombing other countries. Thank you for killing a bunch of arabs would be more correct if you ask me.”
    I hate when I hear people say that… All we do is bomb and attack other countries? Get a clue. You probably don’t have kids or live HERE so obviously you wouldn’t understand why we THANK(!) our war veterans for protecting our country. What about YOUR country?
    Just like we ask… Why do we spend so much money and resources protecting other countries too? For your families as well.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    You say: “How about putting your frustrations over the US supporting evil dictators instead of the US helping rebels free themselves of their own?”
    Jukai, again, you know nothing about Libya. There was an armed insurrection from the beginning–not the peaceful protests in Egypt and Tunisia–an ARMED insurrection. Can you imagine what the US would do if ever there was an ARMED INSURRECTION in the United States?
    But let’s talk about the rebels, whom you really believe are fighting for Libya’s freedom. The rebels are a conglomerate of former members of Gaddafi’s government and Muslim fundamentalists with ties to Al Qaeda–this has been confirmed by the rebels themselves to several British papers, if you want I can link you to them. They aren’t hiding it.
    The rebels have been lynching hundreds of black Libyans on the basis of their skin color, many of them migrant workers but also Libyan citizens. THESE are the kinds of people America backs when it wants to overthrow a government. The West has a lot of blood on their hands for these racist attacks, as CNN and other American media outlets (as well as Al Jazeera, now a pro-NATO Arab paper) blatantly lied, repeatedly, about Gaddafi hiring mercenaries from sub-Saharan Africa. This led to mass lynchings of black civilians, as the rebels assumed every black person was pro-Gaddafi. Human Rights Watch later warned of these attacks and stated CLEARLY that there was ZERO evidence of Gaddafi hiring African mercenaries.
    But I thought America was helping Libyans achieve democracy! I thought America was clamping down on Al Qaeda and Muslim radicals in the Middle East! Well, I’d very much like to believe that, except for the fact that the National Transition Council has already vowed to establish Sharia Law in Libya. So there goes pretty much ALL advancements for women’s rights and actual democracy.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    And if you had any doubts as to the real motive behind NATO’s bombing of Libya and blatant disregard for their sovereignty:
    The FIRST thing the rebels did, even amidst fighting a civil war, was establish A NEW CENTRAL BANK. They literally established a new central bank and threw themselves at Western investors, primarily oil companies, AS THEY WERE FIGHTING Gaddafi’s forces! It’s pretty clear what their intentions were.
    But you can keep pretending that they were fighting for Libyan freedom–freedom from a “dictator” whom 2000 of the 2335 tribes in Libya supported. When an American president comes close to landing that kind of support, then you can call other leaders dictators. Until then, you can shut your mouth, turn off your computer, and continue praying to those posters of Democrat presidents you have hanging on your wall.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Typical f*cking liberal delusion. You know, at least conservatives and Republicans know that the the US is killing people for American interests and American interests only–at least they’re SOMEWHAT honest. Unbearable, yes, but real. Then we have these Obama/Bill Clinton jock riders who actually think America is saving the world. lmao. Have fun with NDAA as the Democrats and Republicans both literally do away with the constitution. Oh, and Monsanto basically runs the FDA now. That should be good times.

  • http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm Gametimeweezy

    ^Preach it!

  • http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm Gametimeweezy

    A lot of Libyans have fled their country and came here because of the war. A lot of good, hard-working families. Isn’t that the point?

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Last thing about Operation Northwoods really quick–I don’t want to get into a discussion of it because it takes away from our Libya discourse.
    You said: “And the Operation Northwoods thing is laughable but conspiracy nutcases just love it. It never got close to passing, Teddy. It was a proposal made only by a group (not ‘everyone’) in the CIA and sent to the president, whose administration quickly rejected it. No other group outside of a small part of the CIA even knew about it and no one in the administration even considered it.”
    Actually, Operation Northwoods was not drafted by the CIA, it was drafted by the Joint Chief of Staff. In case you didn’t know, the Joint Chief of staff consists of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (CJCS), Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (VCJCS), and the Military Service Chiefs from the Army, Navy, Air Force, the Marine Corps, and the Chief of the National Guard Bureau,[1] all appointed by the President following Senate confirmation.[2] Each of the individual Military Service Chiefs, outside of their Joint Chiefs of Staff obligations, works directly for the Secretary of the Military Department concerned, i.e. Secretary of the Army, Secretary of the Navy, and the Secretary of the Air Force.
    If the Joint Chief of Staff drafts the f*cking plan, then yes, basically “everyone in a position of power within the military” probably approves of it–NOT just some obscure, unknown individuals in the CIA. And nice job trying to paint me as a conspiracy theorist. I didn’t concoct Operation Northwoods. I didn’t just suddenly invent false-flag operations. But hey, believe what you want.
    This will be the last I talk about this because you clearly like to divert attention away from the topic at hand to discredit me.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Well, that was a fun but complete waste of a Sunday night. LOL. Goodnight, Juks. Sorry if I pissed anyone off, but ya’ll had to hear it from someone, sometime.

  • EJ

    @Gametimeweezy, well why do you thank your war veterans for protecting your country? How are they doing that, when they’re invading other countries? Are you thanking them for protecting you against the invisible nuclear missiles in Iran?
    I don’t thank the FInnish war veterans of the Continuation war, cause that war was just stupid and out of bitterness.

  • EJ

    If I just had said invaded instead of “just bombing”, this post would have like 20 comments. smh

  • blakos

    Wow at Jukai. All respect lost dude. smh. Btw the US has been heavily involved in Africa over the last 50 years. Do some research. You have no idea of it’s involvement in the Congo during Mobutus reign? Its links to liberia. The US government has interests all around the world, as do most dominant powers. They will back whoever serves their interests. research their involvement in supporting Indonesia’s oppression of East timor. The support of Pinochet.

    With regards to Iraq, Libya….If Libya had such an unfreindly regime. Why dont they invade/bomb Mugabe, or other unfriendly regimes. It comes down to economics. Zimbabwe is good for growing food. Not pmping oil. Those that lobby the US government, Oil companies, Arms manufacturers etc need control of key countries and their resources. Irans hostility means Afgansitan is a useful country to use to pump oil from The former soviet states. Iraq was purely for cpaital gain. The new regime is very open to Multi nationals raping its resources, Sadamm used to be in the 80′s. But that turned sour in the early 90′s.

    Respect to the American people though. An amazingly inovative and diverse people. Troops like Enigmatic said are just following orders. I just dislike bullies in general. if only wars were fought between the opposing leaders. Then they could die, instead of sending others out to slaughter. i have friends in the army an i have respect for what they do. Some were in involved in reconstructing schools in Afganistan and protecting Innocent civilians from conflict.

  • http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm Gametimeweezy

    Because my cousin was a marine and I thank him for that sacrifice. Many close friends have also been enlisted everywhere from the army to airforce to national guard. I guess I don’t expect you to understand. It’s just you say “killing a bunch of arabs” very trivially. Or how you say invisible nuclear missles in Iran…. Don’t act like you really care if people are living or dying, you are just very quick to attack an American ideal.

  • http://nyill.wordpress.com Enigmatic

    Sometimes comment sections need to be closed, and this one should have been a long time ago.
    Like, right after they posted it.

  • http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm Gametimeweezy

    @Teddy – But if 2,000 out of 2,335 tribes were ‘supportive’ of the Ghadafi than weren’t at least 335 tribes people being slaughtered?

  • http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm Gametimeweezy

    @EJ – as if we don’t know Iranians have been enriching uranium, please.

  • shutup

    I got away from this thread because once the name calling started I knew it would get ugly, but @rockinmypants Vietnam had a draft, thats were citizens are called to duty sometimes against their will. So even though we agree that protesting for these tickets is wrong, we seem to have a different view of history.

  • http://www.slamonline.com spit hot fiyah

    no need to close the thread as long as people are bringing real arguments and backing it up with facts.

  • http://Slamonline.com Rocksinmypants

    @shutup, I know what a draft is and I’d bet my life that these aren’t Vietnam vets pulling this kind of sh!t.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Wow sorry for all the insults yesterday Jukai and everyone else. I got REALLY carried away there. The facts remain, but damn. I know this is over the internet but I hope I didn’t drive anyone away from this site. Peace all.

  • http://nyill.wordpress.com Enigmatic

    Rocksinmypants – it specifically mentions a Vietnam Vet in the article.
    I’d assume hes not the only Vietnam vet there.
    Good thing you couldn’t literally bet your life or you’d be dead now.

  • http://sdjfklf.com Jukai

    I was writing up a response but I got into all this “close the thread stuff”
    Why?
    Racial slurs, homosexual slurs, insults of all end go on in this website every day. Me and Teddy are having an intelligent debate of serious, world view things. THAT’S what is going to lock a thread? A debate between two people bringing up real word events? I don’t care if he called me a brainwashed sheep and I called him a lunatic, we were actually EXCHANGING IDEAS and I was actually LEARNING THINGS.
    A lot of people here need to get their priorities. Sick sh*t gets written here every day with no form of moderation. This wasn’t one of those things.
    I’ll withhold my rebuttal, hell I’ll mail it to Teddy if this really offends so many of you. But you guys gotta read and learn things.

  • http://nyill.wordpress.com Enigmatic

    Why not address me Jukai, since it was me who said sh*t should get closed?
    F*ck it then, go ahead and break 500-plus comments for all I care.
    I never said any of this sh*t offended me.
    I was more concerned about people really amping it up and saying some really messed up sh*t, but I should get my priorities in order, apparently.
    Y’all have fun.

  • http://sdjfklf.com Jukai

    Enigmatic: A couple of people said it. Don’t start getting all whiny and start crying, really not needed. People get amped talking about basketball. I don’t get your insistence on ending this thread. It’s insulting when there’s so much other sh*t that makes one want to stop posting, you fixate on this.

  • shutup

    @Jukai and Teddy, outside of the name calling I thought the arguments were well typed, I understand Matics pause about having the thread continue too, like I said earlier my biggest problem was with EJ’s comments about 9/11. I would rather see a thread closed than have someone else disrespect thousands of innocent lives that have been lost which included firefighters and policemen, fathers and mothers and sons and daughters from all types of religions and ethnic backgrounds. I just dont understand trying to justify an attack by pointing out other negative things, an eye for an eye will leave the whole world blind.

  • http://sdjfklf.com Jukai

    Yeah, sorry about the disrespect Enigmatic. There are comments on slam that should be immediately erased that annoy me every day. It’s perturbing. Don’t post here as much anymore for a reason.

  • http://Slamonline.com Rocksinmypants

    @enigmatic I did die just now but I’m back. Guess I should be more thorough in my reading my bad. Either way though that kind of self entitlement is way out of line. As for all this other crap going on here I have no comment.

  • EJ

    What?? Jukai said he wouldn’t be mad if Afghanistan was leveled!! That should definitely be more controversial than anything posted on this thread. (I understand why you would be mad tho)
    And incase somebody hasn’t already understood what I meant with “had it coming”, was that a 9/11 kind of retaliation was foreseeable, not deserved.

  • http://nyill.wordpress.com Enigmatic

    Jukai – sorry for my last post too, sh*tty morning and all.
    I think for the most part you and Teddy are keeping things civil, I just didn’t want to see this thread go seriously downhill but I’ma chill.

  • http://sdjfklf.com Jukai

    Enigmatic: eh, it’s over on here anyways. If Teddy wants to continue, or anyone, I’ll be more than happy to share my thoughts at my e-mail (njl4515 at gmail dot com is a nice non-professional one).

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Well this was an interesting read.

  • project_X

    Teddy-THE-Bear

    Thank you for your great comments! Made may day.
    And for anyone that thinks what he wrote is bs, just watch Syria now. A Libya-replay in the making..
    Though China and Russia seems to have had enough.
    Iran getting pissed..

    WW3??

    Please vote for Ron Paul, for the world sake!!!

  • project_X

    Oh and Jukai’s Afghanistan comment and total lack of knowledge on what’s going on in the world is frightening.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    I can’t believe Teddy Bear…. Wow buddy. Even more I can’t believe there are people that agreed with him. There is a reason why the stuff he is talking about is fringe and not mainstream and it’s not because it has allot of truth to it. While there is some truth in everything, saying that the US is worse than any other country is just false. America is a screwed up nation. FACT. Also FACT: Every other country is equally screwed up or way worse. So much wrong information was spread on this page. Is every Soldier a hero? No. Are the majority of them fighting for the right reasons? Yes. That is commendable. I will never come down harshly on the US for invading a country where Sharia Law is intact. Sharia Law is DISGUSTING. More disgusting than water boarding someone. Sharia Law kills more people each day than the US military does. At least 3/4 of who the US military is killing are actually bad people as apposed to innocent women and children whom are affected and killed by Sharia Law every day.

  • http://dsfklf.com Jukai

    project_X: Good debate, buddy. Real riveting stuff.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LTdx1nPu3k Teddy-the-Bear

    @ Lakeshow: You need to take a deep breath, calm down, and actually find out who in the Middle East practices Sharia Law, then look at their relationship to the United States, and then come back and comment.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LTdx1nPu3k Teddy-the-Bear

    @ project X you’re right about Syria.

  • http://www.slamonline.com spit hot fiyah

    @lakeshow, there is not a single country in the world implements full sharia laws, and for those that come somewhat close, refer to teddy’s comment above. Maybe the thing he talks about r not mainstream in your circle, but please travel the world man

  • project_X

    Jukai, I would debate you if there was anything left to say, just read what Teddy wrote and thats it. No one can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is the truth, but you surely do not have anything better to bring to the table. You are skilled when it comes to the NBA, i’ve enjoyed reading your comments and analysis for many years, but do stay out of geo-politics.
    Also some remorse over one of the most stupid, ignorant and outright crazy comments ever on this site is appropriate.

    Oh, and Al Qaeda leader Al-Zahwari is publicly supporting the “Syrian Uprisning”, of course since it will bring Islam/Sharia to power. He and Nato can form a new alliance. Current leaders of Libya are cheering them on.. I can’t belive that they killed Gadaffi unpunished!

    And to stay on topic, give the vets all these ticets, they been screwed into believing that they served their nations best interest when going to war with all these countries. They dream about the bloodshed they were forced to commit, they need those ticets more than anybody!

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