Monday, June 15th, 2009 at 10:31 am  |  329 responses

Does Victory ‘Seal’ Kobe’s Legacy?

by Ryne Nelson

Can Kobe win it without Shaquille? The answer today clearly is ‘yes.’

Winning three titles before his 24th birthday put Kobe on the top of the world. But he fell, as everyone eventually does. And the seven years following couldn’t have been more painstakingly long as he clawed through turmoil to get back to the top.

He made it again. With the Lakers belonging completely to him, Kobe quickly learned that being on top is nothing to be taken for granted, especially when playing for one of sports most entitled franchises.

All those years of hearing the question from reporters, fans, relatives (everyone, really) made it seem like, as Kobe described, seven years of extreme pain.

“It was annoying. It was like Chinese water torture, just keep dropping a drop of water on your temple. It was just annoying. I would cringe every time. I was just like, it’s a challenge I’m just going to have to accept because there’s no way I’m going to argue it.”

“You can say it until you’re blue in the face and rationalize it until you’re blue in the face, but it’s not going anywhere until you do something about it. I think we as a team answered the call because they understood the challenge that I had, and we all embraced it.”

With his fourth championship and first Finals MVP, the heavy burden was relived from his shoulders. So can we finally give Kobe the respect he’s deserved for so long? Can Kobe Bryant now, without apprehension or qualifiers, be mentioned in the same breath as basketball’s other all-time greats?

I think the answer today clearly is ‘yes.’

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  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    You know your old when 16 year old kids talk about MJ’s playing days as “back then”…. and then go on to say well, if MJ was playing today, or if Kobe was playing back then….
    You young kids realise that MJ and Kobe played against each other for 3-4 years right…? and from 2001-2003 MJ averaged 21 ppg 5.8 rpg 4.5 apg right? right? Sure MJ was in the eve of his career and Kobe was dominating – but they played against each other and rose to the occassion…you might want to get hold of the allstar game highlights from those years perhaps….

  • http://slam comets

    @dacre shaq and kobe’s future as best players ever are still progressing i did not rate them because they are not best at their position and they are still playing i rated tim ducan cause he is the best poward foward so he can go foward or stay the same.shaq, kobe and ducan are link with eachother they are fighting for legacy in the top five however tim is the best at his position…

    @joemama wilt was dominaint but he lost a lot he did not even win college national championship and for all his dominance he only won twice and he should of won more… the ball does not always bounce the way u want to..

  • http://slam comets

    and i believe people tend to forget yesterday…. Jabbar might be the best player ever 6 championship, 6 mvps, 3 national chips over 30,000 career points…. top five rebounders of all time…. jordan has six rings but he is consider to be better than abdul what would have been big O leagcy without abdul, what about magic abdul was injured in one game and magic took over, but he played jordan without abdul for season he got spank.abdul is never considered number 1 i wonder why…

  • Mike

    Where is James Worthy in the top 50. You got to get a blog about the top 50!! Kobe is the second best 2 guard ever!! Period. But to even notion that he’s better than MJ is crazy. You youngins ever saw come fly with me? I love Kobe but damn Mike $hit was so crazy man just You tube it.

  • JoeMaMa

    hahaha nbk you spelt douche bag wrong. make a joke about it ahahaha

  • http://slam comets

    people tend to take flash over substance thats why everyone believed lebron was better than kobe…. substance prevailed last night just like last year in the finals… Kobe has been through all of the trials and tribulations and as a fan of basketball its gets greater later if ur a laker fan.. the jordan fans dont wont to let go just like the magic johnson fans did not want to let go but its an new era and it started last night…as they say in star wars” the saga continues”

  • http://fjdkslf.com Jukai

    Comets: you’re a bit hypocritical if you believe Russell is the best center ever, who had at LEAST three (and sometimes six) hall of famers for all his thirteen rings, and yet discredit Bird for playing with his hall of famers. Let me tell you something, McHale was the only REAL deal for the Celts… Archibald was old, Walton was damn near cripple, and Parish is the most overrated player of ALL-TIME (dude was a Marion-level glorified garbage player. He was tall, had huge hops, but that’s where his range and worth ended. Wasn’t even that great of a one-on-one defender, although he was an excellent weakside blocker, but that’s cause dude was tall).
    If you think Kobe is better than Larry Legend, you’re just out of your mind. I mean, 24-10-6. That was his CAREER stats. That’s other worldy. Man.
    I love Isiah, but he’s not even in my top 15.

  • Joe A

    The problem with Kobe’s legacy is that both his supporters and detractors both have valid reasons that support their claims. His fans will say he is the most gifted offensive players ever, the haters will counter with he takes too many ill advised shots. Fans will point to this championship to show he can lead a team, those against him will point out the fact that the Lakers had one of the easiest roads to the finals in history;(they played a team that limped in to the playoffs, a team that lost their best player 3 games into the series, and the magic, who seemed shocked that they made it that far)and the numerous times Kobe has quit on his team. I’m a Kobe hater, but I will say he belongs in the top 30 of all time. As a side note, please SLAM, don’t put Kobe on the cover again next issue, put a team photo,put Blake Griffin, or even put Phil Jackson on the cover. I really don’t want to open my mail box next month and see Kobe for the 4th time this year.

  • http://Nicekicks.com Hollywud15

    @Have some class: soo u dont like mj bcuz his comercials made him look cocky, yet, Your a kobe fan….? ohhh the irony

  • chintao

    F.Y.I., Chinese water torture does not involve dripping annoyance. It consists of force-feeding the victim great volumes of water, then hanging him upside-down and beating on his stomach, causing damage to internal organs. I wish someone would give Kobe a taste of the rillness.

  • http://www.lkz.ch Darksaber

    chintao with the knowledge. Righteous!

  • Orlando Green

    Anyone that says that anyone on that Laker team played better than Kobe in the finals doesn’t know a thing about the game. Everything players like Pau, Trevor or Lamar get is due to Kobe. So Kobe is amazing enough to get his 30 and he is linked to at least half to points that everyone else gets.

    Kobe is top 10 all-time no doubt. Second best shooting guard of all-time. He is more skilled than Magic, it’s not even close. However, because Magic has accomplished more he should be placed before. But if we were picking teams, I would pick Kobe before Magic 10 times out of 10.

    MJ, Wilt, Bird, Russell, Oscar, Magic, Kareem, Kobe, O’neal, West.

    I still haven’t bought my SLAM top 50, so I don’t know what you guys came up with. I don’t like putting Wilt so high, I think he would be just a normal good pivot in today’s league. But I don’t know who else to place at the number 2 spot. It’s Kobe’s for the taking. :)

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    ARE YOU KIDDING? Wilt Chamberlain is too high? He’s greatest center of all time!
    Peep this:
    One of my favorite centers, Willis Reed, once said that he was really proud of his first game against Wilt. He scored 36 points against him, while only holding Wilt to 56 points. Do you hear/read that?? “Only holding Wilt to 56 points”. Back then holding Chamberlain to 56 points was an ACCOMPLISHMENT.
    He’d just be a normal good pivot? Don’t joke around like that.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Oh yeah, and Magic was way less skilled than Kobe? Are you kidding me AGAIN? They played different positions, but if you really think he wasn’t that skilled, I suggest you at least go youtube his highlights.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Young Chris, read what I wrote. Wilt Chamberlain is the greatest center of all time. Its BARELY debatable.

  • http://slamonline.com Blaze

    blazers in 2011. new ish of slam is dope. congrats to kobe for winning his LAST ring of his career. If Shaq signs with the cavs, they will again lose in ecf, spurs arent getting any younger (or better), Chris Dudley is my homeboy.

  • Pardeep

    What did I tell everyone! Kobe proving why he is the best in the world baby! Lakers back on top and we jus getting started. By teh way Kobe offically top 6 players ever.

  • http://slamonline.com Blaze

    when will slam do a piece on dereck coleman, or kevin duckworth whom has been gone almost a year now. It was always hard to dislike 00duck.

  • http://slamonline.com Nw09

    He really didn’t need this title to seal his legacy he was already in the “One of the greatest to ever play the game” talks. It was just a sweeter achievement because of the scrutiny he faced involving the departure of the 04 team, and not being able to win it without Shaq and he did. So that monkey is off of his back if he can add a little more hardware to his reseme and then go out with a bang then his legacy will completely be sealed imo.

    But I will say this it takes alot of out of you to been have played for so long, with the wear and tear on your body included with being 31 and still performing at a high level. That’s difficult to do. But hopefully he comes back next season rested and rejuvenated because he still has more work to do.

    congrats to “Bean” on number 4 though he deserved it because of the climb back to the top took a hard effort.

  • http://www.slamonline.com/online/category/blogs/fear/ Freedom Fries

    Kobe’s so good, he was GOAT before he ever played. It will be interesting to see what happens in the off season and what the lakers look like next year – I’m willing to bet a dozen croissants aux amandes that they do not repeat.

  • http://www.slamonline.com/online/category/blogs/fear/ Freedom Fries

    just read that simmons article – mos def worth the read

  • Eric

    I love how the myth of Kobe is unfolding. “kobe has won four championships” Yeah, but here’s the thing. Three of those championships came when he was playing side kick. Kobe has more in common with Dwayne Wade than he does with Magic,Bird Jordan or even Duncan all of whom LED their teams to muliple championships Magic/Bird/Jordan/Duncan were never side kicks.

  • http://www.supremenewyork.com Waylonakolipse

    I think a lot of people hate on Kobe because of the retarded Laker fans. They’re almost as annoying as Raider fans. And his two lame nicknames “Black Mamba” and “The Ultimate Closer” are very irritating to hear if you’re not a Kobe-Fag. Kobe is the best player in the NBA from 2000-2009, but barely over Tim Duncan. His reign as the best player will end soon and I see Lebron clearly taking the mantle in the 2010 season. I say this not because I don’t like Kobe but because he’s losing athletic ability. And all this Kobe in the top 5 or 6 talk is garbage because he has never beat a team, in the playoffs, that was comparable to the winning teams of the 60s, 70s, 80s, or 90s. And when he did he got powned hard, see Detroit ’04 and Boston ’08. Now if he wins next year over a healthy Celtics team my argument would be defeated.

  • Peter

    Eric, why is kobe a side kick and magic isn’t, he played with kareem.

  • Peter

    We are so obsessed with individualism that some of us can’t seem to fathom the idea that one person can’t win a championship by themselves, it’s ALWAYS a team effort. Unless a player accumulates all the statistics his team generates, he is only partially responsible for the championship.Being the captian of the team doesn’t make your championship any more deserved, you need to assess a player’s individual contribution, Kobe did more than his fair share to win his first three chips, so please can explain to me why he shouldn’t be acknowledged for them.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    Eric, read articles from other websites beside your idiotic thinking about basketball. Larry Bird played with Hall of Famers and only won three titles, do we say that about him. Scottie played with Jordan, is he a sidekick. Drexler won with Hakeem, is he a sidekick. Shaq can not do it alone , if he could he would have more than one MVP award and way more than 4 Chips. With Orlando he lost, with Miami he got one, with Suns he will lose and with Lebron if he goes, he will hurt Lebron more than help, by him clogging up the middle with no more skill to move out of the way. Dwade is good, compare him with Lebron=Kobe has left them for now with his 4th Chip. Even the Hater, Skip Bayless puts Kobe at number 7 on his all time list, and he really hates, Eric you are stupid.

  • jumpman3224

    Magic Johnson said after the game that he thinks Kobe will get the next Staples Center statue. I was wondering do you guys think LA will retire 8 (3 cookies – 81 points, etc.) or 24 (MVP, 1 cookie, 1 Bill Russel and counting). I think both, but I’d be interested in hearing someother takes.

  • Orlando Green

    Teddy…Wilt didn’t play against the same competition as players are used to today. I’m still saying he’s a legend for what he did in his time. But I still think Shaq would rip his head off.

    I don’t need to watch highlights of Magic, I used to watch him live. There is nothing that Magic did that Kobe would be unable to do. However, you can’t say the same going the other way. Case closed.

  • http://www.slamonline.com/online/category/blogs/fear/ Freedom Fries

    O green – you’re right, unless that list includes consistently passing to wide open teammates, being gracious, not antagonise all his teammates, have a baby sky-hook, care about anyone other than himself, and practice looking like an angry werewolf, other than that you’re spot on.

  • http://dsjklff.com Jukai

    Eric is stupid but you’re pretty stupid yourself if you think McHale and Parish together are half as good as Shaq. Don’t knock Bird’s accomplishments.

  • http://dsjklff.com Jukai

    Orlando Green: First off, you’re right. Outside of passing, rebounding, help defending, blocking shots, disrupting the passing lanes, and not punishing his teammates and destroying their self esteem when they screw up, there is nothing Magic can do that Kobe can’t do better. Very good.
    Secondly, here are some cool Wilt Chamberlain stats:
    Wilt Chamberlain once played over 48 minutes a game. For a season.
    Wilt Chamberlain once averaged 8 assists a game. In the same year, he once had a triple double with 20 points, 20 assists, and 20 rebounds. A reporter also noted he had twelve blocks, but it was not officially counted back then.
    Wilt Chamberlain once broke Johnny Kerr’s toe by throwing down a monsterous slam dunk which such force, when it went through the basket and onto Kerr’s foot, it shattered the damn thing.
    Wilt Chamberlain once a player’s shot in mid air (forget the players name, will search it later) and the sudden stop of the ball caused the player, whow as going forward, to jerk the opposite way so fast that he threw his back.
    Wilt Chamberlain could dunk on a twelve foot rim easily, which he did during pregame shows at Kansas University.
    Wilt Chamberlain averaged over 20 rebounds a game well into his thirties, which was during the 1970s, where the league was plenty physical.
    Wilt Chamberlain could dunk from the free-throw line. At 7’1.
    Wilt Chamberlain was running marathons when he was 50.
    So, tell me. Why would the physicalness of today’s league mean anything to how dominant Chamberlain would be?

  • http://dsjklff.com Jukai

    *with such force
    *Wilt Chamberlain once blocked a players shot

  • JoeMaMa

    Anyone who averages 50 a game is the MAN. And Wilt played against Russell, and in their head to head matchups, Wilt averaged 29 and 29. He also led the league in assists one year.
    Yes, if George Mikan played Shaq, Shaq would destroy him. And if George Gervin played now, he’d get muscled out of the game. Each generation adds something new, as they build upon the last one. Rule changes, weights, the commercialization of the game….
    But NOBODY could do it like Wilt.
    Wilt – recorded 550lb bnech press, 48-50 vertical, as he was the college high jump champion.

  • jelloman

    Soft..if the Celtics were healthy, this would have been their year again. Kobe still can’t beat the Celts!

  • Peter

    Its funny everyone who defends old players like wilt strictly based on stats…has anyone ever seen them actually play?

    All I know is I saw some clips of earl monroe playing the other day and the man could barely jump over a book.

  • http://dsjklff.com Jukai

    Peter: Yes, I’ve seen a lot of game that Wilt played. As has most people who are commenting.

  • Peter

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ucfpGWfhDU

    I don’t think the words “help defense” existed in 1969 (or goaltending for that matter), look how much space there is in the lane!

  • http://slam comets

    I hate when people think Shaq would have killed Wilt. I really do.

  • Mike H

    @Jukai’s 11:23 am comment: Dude that’s some crazy sh*t abbout him breaking Red Kerr’s toe. I’d never heard that story before. I have a whole new appreciation for the Stilt

  • Peter
  • http://slam Allenp

    Man, y’all should read Wilt’s bio on NBA.com. Wilt was better than Shaq. There is no comparison.
    Talking about Wilt wasn’t playing against anybody… Who did Shaq dominate against?
    Bill Russell was nobody? Willis Reed? Al Attles? Nate Thurmond?
    Are these cats any worse than the cats Shaq dominated during his career. Check your history losers.

  • Peter

    Its not about one on one domination…look at what just happened to D Howard…he probably could have gone one on one against pau all night even with no moves but the help D these days is so much more sophisticated they can crowd these guys. Back then that stuff didn’t exist. No tape of the big dip to review. Just man up against a guy a foot taller than you.

  • http://slam Allenp

    Peter
    You think teams were just “manning up” against Wilt?
    That’s crazy talk. Read the bio and see what teams were doing. Wilt basically faced the Hack a Shaq well before Shaq, and well before all the current rules to protect players.

  • Stan

    How did this thread become Wilt vs. Shaq? It’s the legacy of Kobe we’re talking about people! I think Wilt is better than Shaq head to head.

  • http://dsjklff.com Jukai

    From Wiki:
    In Chamberlain’s junior year, the 1957–58 NCAA season, the Jayhawks’ matches were frustrating for him. Knowing how dominant Chamberlain was, the opponents resorted to freeze-ball tactics and routinely used three or more players to guard him.[27] Team mate Bob Billings commented: “It was not fun basketball… we were just out chasing people throwing the basketball back and forth.”[27] In addition, Chamberlain grew weary of the punishment inflicted on him; after a game against Missouri, he showed imprints of two rows of teeth in his arm
    So, yeah, that was college basketball. If you don’t think Chamberlain was being triple teamed, you really know NOTHING about basketball before you were born. Chamberlain, in an interview (I believe in the 80s) once boasted that he could easily have averaged 70-points in today’s league, because the league was too talented for him to be triple and quadrouble teamed, and he would have been able to go one-on-one much more often. That is obviously a vast overexaggeration, but you get the point he’s trying to make.

  • CaptainObvious

    Anyone who doesn’t give Kobe credit for the 1st three titles is a bleepen moron.

    Kobe was putting up great numbers for those teams and he was those teams 1st option in the 4th quarter when games and championships are won. That is not a sidekick.

    Kobe is one of the greatest winners in the history of the league and all the haters are mad. I love it.

  • Peter

    Jukai watch the video I posted earlier. As for 70 points? Wilt also claimed to have slept with 20,000 women which would be an average of almost 3 a night for 20 years straight. So…

  • http://dsjklff.com Jukai

    Peter: Wow, a five minute highlight video! It’s amazing how a HIGHLIGHT video in an age where there wasn’t much footage would have Chamberlain doing fantastic plays one on one instead of forcing up shots three on one or four on one! I’m totally dumbfounded! Flabbergasted! Stupefied!
    I guess if we go by the videos you sent me, Shaq never got double teamed either and mostly scored on alley-oops.

  • http://dsjklff.com Jukai

    Also, Wilt claimed he could lift 600 pounds in his arms, and said during his college days he had a 48-50 inch vertical. Wilt said a lot of dumb things. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t have a point about teams not be able to double team him as much in this era.

  • Peter

    look wilt was obviously an amazing specimen but you can’t argue that players from back then could compete today. they were smoking in the locker room at half time for christs sake. its like saying pele would be able to play in today’s premier league. people/athletes evolve. and basketball for all the skill it involves is still a game where athleticism plays a huge part. Was Wilt more dominant comparitively in his day than Shaq was in his? No question, but to say he would match up with Shaq in his prime is a stretch.

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