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Monday, November 14th, 2011 at 2:14 pm  |  217 responses

Breaking: NBA Players Reject Offer, to Disband Union


No good news to report here, folks. The NBA Players Association has decided it will not accept the owners’ latest offer, instead deciding to disband the union and take this one to the courts. Here are some quotes from the presser that just went down, courtesy of PBT:

“We’ve arrived at the conclusion that the collective bargaining process has completely broken down, and as a result in the last hour we have served a notice of disclaimer on (David) Stern and the NBA,” union director Billy Hunter said after the meeting. “We plan to disseminate that to all 30 teams…

“The players are not ready to accept the ultimatum, they thought it was completely unfair on the part of the NBA ownership and management….

We have negotiated in good faith for two years, but the players have felt they have given enough.”

“This is where it stops for us as a union,” said Derek Fisher, union president.

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  • http://www.twitter.com/nflem41 Nicolas Fleming

    Tell my mother and father it wasn’t their fault, it was David Stern’s. Don’t bury me in Jordans.

  • http://www.slamonline.com spit hot fiyah

    wow. I can’t blame the players though, they were getting screwed. College ball ftw?

  • @Deknowz

    List this under “sh*t we should have done 3 months ago”. I wonder where I can get that Euroleague pass?

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    5 months too late.

  • the Don

    it sucks as a nba-fan, but i think its the right thing to do…

    R.I.P. NBA-Season 11/12

  • http://Slamonline@yahoo.com nbk

    August is going to be a crazy month…..wait it’s November? The players waited till November to reveal their vertebrates. I love this game

  • http://www.acb.com A l a n

    Time for players to come to Europe? Durant has already been rejected by Barcelona….

  • http://wikipedia.org Eddie1

    Where’s @jukai? I told you all. I told you all. Illuminati.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    August is going to be a crazy month…..wait it’s November? The players waited till November to reveal their vertebrates. I love this game.

  • http://www.twitter.com/nflem41 Nicolas Fleming

    Oh, so we are all going fishing now?

  • 2307

    totaly agree with other posts, should have done this before!!! why would you not want a professional handling your legal/work issues? the owners can eat a D&*k players gave up alot on BRI and the owners would not give any on system issues!! if the owners thought have a sports team would be profatable then there more stupid than thinking their wives are with them for their personalities!!! F*!K EM

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Stephen “A**hole” Smith just said he sides with the people with the deepest pockets (the owners). Is this dumba** serious?
    Also I had no idea that Westbrook was that tall, dude is towering over CP.

  • LA Huey

    They tried to negotiate in good faith. I don’t blame them for waiting to decertify. As a fan, this really sucks but I’m glad they aren’t going to just grab their ankles here.

  • IAMORANGE4EVER

    The players pride just cost them dearly. I don’t feel sorry for them.

  • IAMORANGE4EVER

    They’ll be grabbing their angles when it’s all said and done, LA Huey.

  • LA Huey

    yeah, JTaylor. I just read that. I wonder if he realized that he kinda just bit that hand that fed him. His access to players was really all he had going. Now he’s just a younger, black Dick Vitale without the following.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    You can’t just assume the owners are going to do the same thing. When Hunter admits he’s known about the inevitable lockout for over 2 years then the players should have just done what was best for their situation, rather then assume the owners are going to want something less than everything they can get.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Sigh…

  • http://wikipedia.org Eddie1

    @LA Huey what about the people who work for the teams and stadiums bringing in 5 figure salaries? Eff the player’s pride. Only good thing about this is that in 2 years, players will be begging for a 50-50 split. D-fish and the rest of those dumb wipes just guaranteed solvency and competitiveness for the rest of the league.

  • Shecky Shabazz

    This is great. The best thing to come from this is my lockout beard will be thicker than Brian Wilson’s and Rick Ross’

  • Heals

    Huey nailed it. If they had known negotiations (if we can even call them that) were going to go as they did they would’ve decertified months ago. They had the expectations (naive or not, depends on the info you’ve been exposed to during this process) that conceding 6% BRI among other things was more than enough (and it is) to get the season going. For that they ended up being wrong, but at the time they decided not to I find it hard to fault them explicitly. They knew the consequnces of decertification and used it as their last ditch option. Given my understanding of happenings this was the only way to keep the hope of the season alive. If they had decertified 4 months ago, it was over then. This would’ve been in courts since then (and continue to be for the indefinite future)…

  • http://nbasobrietystrike.blogspot.com/ CoolWhip

    Anybody have any suggestions for what I should drink tonight? Looks like my protest of drinking my way through the season is about to get out of control

  • hiphopcop

    Jtaylor21– Stephen A Clown is always been like that, not surprised

  • http://redoftoothandclaw.ca/ niQ

    NBA 2011-2012: Where Amazing Didn’t Happen.

  • http://redoftoothandclaw.ca/ niQ

    GG.

  • bike

    Kind of fascinating, isn’t it? Following one of the most successful NBA seasons in years, we are going to witness a complete collapse in the CBA, lose a season, and might eventually wind up with a league that doesn’t resemble anything like the past. And to top it off, we are in the midst of a historically low economic point in America.
    Only in the good ‘ole USA!

  • jayb

    great ..no season!!! i thought the deal was terrible but now it is up to the courts…thanks greedy owners! i guess the mamba takes his talents to italy..good luck fielding a d-league in the states! no xmas games!!! i am ticked!!!!

  • http://redoftoothandclaw.ca/ niQ

    Man… that just means the next NBA draft that takes place will be ridiculously stacked… even if they decide to raise the age limit… redonc.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    I see where Heals and Huey are coming from but Billy Hunter has said many times that Stern told him many times before the start of negotiations that the owners are willing to miss an entire season or maybe two seasons (he just said it on NBA TV) just to get their way, so why not decertify and bring the courts into into it? Regardless of whatever concessions the players made, the owners were hell bent on destroying the league. If the NFLPA decertified earlier in their negotiating process, why didn’t the NBAPA follow the same route?

  • http://wikipedia.org Eddie1

    @JTaylor21 NBAPA legal counsel knew there would be a small chance of them succeeding through the courts.

  • Overtime

    @Enig, @JTaylor @anyone else with PS3 2k12, hook me up, Its the only season there is now

  • http://theurbangriot.com The Nupe

    Everyobody knew this could happen, but not many people knew it would happen. I believe that both sides negotiated in good faith and the owners are probably surprised that the players didn’t accept this latest offer. I thought the players would fold and part of me still thinks they will. Nobody wants to kill the season, players will never make up for this kind of lost money. The biggest losers (besides arena workers) are the players in either their final contracts or the ones with ‘bad’ contracts (e.g. Antoine Jamison, Rashard Lewis, Baron Davis, Gilbert Arenas etc) who have huge contracts and they’ll never make up for these lost games. Even Kobe is in a position where he’ll never be able to make up for this lost season – considering how much he’s making. Younger max players like the Miami’s big 3 aren’t going to be hurt as much and maybe over time may be able to recoup some of these losses, but on the whole, I still expect the players to fold. When you have the highest paid players, older/final contrtact players and your ‘typical’ mid career 3-4 years in the league players who may/not be playing another 3-4 years that all stand to lose a ton of earning. They will concede. If they don’t and stand on some ‘principle’ of protecting the league for future generations of players, that’s admirable, but I highly doubt it.

  • http://israelisatirelab.blogspot.com/ ISL

    Stern trying to create a better league for everyone, the union was just trying to get a better deal for the star players. If it went to a player vote no way this deal gets voted down.

    How could the union not let the players vote?

  • http://staticseth.blogspot.com Seth

    The players should have done this right off the bat. People are crazy to think the players were going to just grab their ankles in order to play, as Huey put it. When it comes to money, no one wants to take a cut. This season is screwed.

  • ab40

    they’re gonna lose and end up at 47% BRI or lower. Man these guys take the if you gotta be dumb you gotta be tough song a little too serious.

  • http://www.slamonline.com megatron

    NOOOOO!

  • Tom

    This is depressing. End of story.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Cheryl

    I know we fans are impatient and wish, if it were going to happen, that this move happened a few months earlier. Howeva… this happening now, after months of attempted negotiations and many, many concessions by the players with very little in concessions by the league, this move at this time, may be viewed more favorably by the courts than if they had done this earlier. It also allowed the rank and file players to view the stubborness and bullying tactics of the league first hand. As much as I love the pro game and will miss it intensely, I’m glad the players have stood their ground. We will not have a season this year, and many vets who were looking for one more go ’round will be out of jobs a year or two earlier than planned.

  • http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gabriel-a-feldman/the-legal-issues-behind-t_2_b_1081107.html Allenp

    I wrote something about this, I’m going to see if SLAM uses it. I’m cool with it.

  • http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gabriel-a-feldman/the-legal-issues-behind-t_2_b_1081107.html Allenp

    The should decertify, not do a disclaimer of interest.
    Decertification takes longer, but it has more teeth.

  • http://www.michaelcho.com M Cho

    Well, there goes all hope of a season. I’m with the players on this — it’s better to stand up for yourself and take the hit than accept a bad deal. But damn, people are gonna be hurting over this one.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Dammmit… I had been telling myself not to get excited for basketball season cause it might not happen at all. I didn’t really think I wouldn’t see a minute of bball this season. My life literally feels less complete right now…

  • Sizzle

    Hopefully the NCAA will be great viewing this year

  • http://nbasobrietystrike.blogspot.com/ CoolWhip

    If you’re shocked by today’s proceedings than you’re just naive.
    Seriously, if you believed there would be a season this year than you probably still believe in Santa Clause.
    I ‘blame’ both sides, but I actually believe the players are more at fault. The owners have had this stance for awhile, and like JTaylor just said, made it clear that they were willing to miss substantial games ie. entire season(s). Players thinking that they could ‘negotiate’ the owners to where they wanted was just crazy. You just had 10+ years at 57% BRI, owners were not going to concede much of anything to you.

  • http://slamonline.com AlbertBarr

    cosign Cheryl: I think the players attempting to achieve their goals through negotiation first will give them a more favorable position in the courtroom. Unless they get a judge who is unfavorable to them no matter what. Should be interesting. Although not nearly as interesting as NBA basketball would be.

  • Fat Lever

    “This is bad, real bad, Michael Jackson”

  • Evolutionary

    I am so proud of the players! Players need to set themselves free from owners completely but atleast they aren’t just accepting what the owners decide they want to give them. Players have to give themselves an opportunity to control their own destiny. That will happen fully when they decide they don’t need owners and develop a strategy to self-govern.

  • LA Huey

    “What about the people who work for the teams and stadiums bringing in 5 figure salaries?” Because the owners are thinking of those same folks? Let’s not act like the owners have their employees interest at heart. The players offered to continue to negotiate the CBA and play the 2011-12 season under the old rules but the league didn’t take it. I know we’re all upset and want our NBA but placing the blame on the side that has made all the concessions to date is silly.

  • http://slamonline BossTerry

    @ the Nupe @ 2:55- I hope you’re right…

  • http://www.facebook.com/#!/joe.l.brewer3 BlackPhantom

    Damnit, now the only kind of decent b-ball I can watch is college or from my high-school. And I’m a die-hard Lakers fan, so it isn’t like there is much to be optimistic about with Kobe, Pau and company missing a whole season, so when they come back they’ll just be older *sigh*

  • Homie

    Excellent point Cheryl. And, I agree with AllenP, they NBAPA should completely decertify. This has “bad faith negotiating” written all over it.

  • dubya4lyfe

    LOOOLLLL. The owners are gonna take the players to the shed on this one. 47%..here we come….

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Without the Union, the Owners are screwed (competitive balance wise). With the Union the Players are screwed…..unless, the “star” players hold out from reforming the Union until things are relatively fair. Pretty much, right?

  • LA Huey

    Also, the owners want to change parts of the system which I thought was fine. And based on how everyone jonesing for their NBA, y’all seemed ok with it too.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    I honesty don’t have a problem with some of the what the owners want. Like the Mid-Level Exception, and Sign & Trades, those issues shouldn’t really hold anything up for the union. Since 2005, Sign & Trades with Tax paying teams have only been used a total of (9) Times. The full-mid level exception has only been used by tax paying teams, (4) times. — Maybe the other way around, but you get the picture, 13 total times in 6 years is not something that should hold up any negotiation.

  • LA Huey

    nbk, I agree. The NBA middle class needs the union but small market teams need the CBA. It’d be crazy team-stacking and Yankee-style payrolls for the large markets.

  • Robb

    Time to open the books owners HAHAHA. Now it’s their turn to get screwed…

  • http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gabriel-a-feldman/the-legal-issues-behind-t_2_b_1081107.html Allenp

    Huey and NBK
    That’s right man. The rules that violate anti-trust law are the rules that maintain competitive balance.
    Which makes this whole thing strange.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    How can any of this be sorted out then? Or does that mean that going to court is the worst case scenario for the owners no matter what? Will this even get to court with that in mind? Will the Owners fold like a paper tent? Or will this go on for years? And one other thing, why is Chris Mullin in the HOF and Mitch Richmond and Tim Hardaway aren’t?

  • MLK4Life

    Stephen A. decided to side with the strong instead of the weak. Don’t understand why. And yes, he has access to a lot of the players, but after this, I don’t see them talking with him as much or at all. He’s been consistently on the side of the owners. The players stood up and decided to fight. I’m happy for them. I’d love to be watching them play, but they deserve fairness and I’m glad they’re fighting for it. David Stern and the small market owners deserve the brunt of the blame here. No question about it. I have said this before on here, but I’ll say it again. I have nothing against LeBron for The Decision now after watching how selfish and arrogant Stern and his new owners are. I wouldn’t care about Dan Gilbert or any of those other guys either if I were a player.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    I’m sorry but I don’t agree with any of the owners’ proposal because it severely restricts player movement. Not to mention, the players have proposed giving back 7% of their BRI share (which amounts to 3 billion over the next CBA). When you give back 3 billion of your own money to someone else and they still refuse to make compromises, there’s no need for the NBPA to agree to any system issues.

  • Heals

    @JT 2:41,
    My only guess is that they knew decertification (regardless of when it was done after the Finals) meant playing the season was an impossibility (not sure if this is true, but from what I’ve read and the estimates of the possible length of the legal process). So they held off with the hopes owners in better markets might have more clout at the negotiation table (my opinion). As for the NFL, good Q, I dunno? Possibly there was more good faith (not as many teams losing money), NFL players have already conceded so much I don’t know what else was left for owners to take, they desperately wanted the publicity and revenue of playing on 9/11 (the synic in me). Either way I hear ya, I’m just holding onto that POV until I can find enough info to shift my position…

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    From a financial POV I understand not budging on the system issues. When really your pissed about the finances. It’s like when my girlfriend is mad that I haven’t done my laundry in a while, so she trips out about the trash being full. Focus on the root of the problem, or nothing will ever get fixed.

  • http://theurbangriot.com The Nupe

    IF this goes to court, it will be interesting to see how both sides argue. The owners have the ‘official books’ about how much they earned/loss as a base for the 50/50 split and possible contraction. While the players really only have the fact that they don’t believe the owners. Also, the owners say they have made concessions, but that’s only true if you accept that they are making concessions based upon what they originally said they wanted (e.g. hard slary cap and salary roll-backs). Players on the other hand have made concessions based upon the last deal to the ‘new’ deal (e.g. reduction from 57% of revenues). I still strongly believe that a) the players will fold b) the players union made a mistake by not allowing the players to vote on the current offer, c) the reason the union isn’t going after decertification is because they are afraid to miss the entire season, and d) the owners feel more advantage now that the players union is taking this approach.

  • http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gabriel-a-feldman/the-legal-issues-behind-t_2_b_1081107.html Allenp

    You are assuming the owners’ media claims that it was about finances are true.
    I don’t believe that. I believe that while finances were important, the real goal was always re-establishing control over players, a control that was weakened by what LeBron started and what Dwight Howard was poised to do this year.
    Owners don’t want players wielding that sort of power, they want that reserved for teams.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Heals, I understand holding out hope of convincing the owners to make compromises but why waste your time negotiating with the unnegotiable? Why waster your time trying to convince the unconceivable? They wasted 5-6 months negotiating for nothing despite the fact that the NBPA head (Hunter) has said Stern told him 2yrs ago, that the owners are ready to miss 2 seasons in the hopes of destroying the old CBA and implementing an owner-friendly CBA.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    The players have always said that they are willing to give back as much as 7% of their BRI as long as there were no dramatic changes in the system that restricts player movement. So basically the owners were trying to DP the players.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Allen, if that were the case, wouldn’t owners focus less on the BRI split and more on the system issues? I mean I realize the owners want to restrict player movement, “for competitive balance” (i.e. control) – but the finances still seem like the major issue to me. — Then again, David Stern is the rep for the owners, and he spins everything to look one way, which has been about finances. So your prolly right

  • nbaNw8

    Every time i think this situation is getting better it gets worse.

  • http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gabriel-a-feldman/the-legal-issues-behind-t_2_b_1081107.html Allenp

    The owners set a ridiculous number for the BRI split, 47 percent, and then said the only way they were going to accept 50 percent was if the players capitulated on system issues.
    To means, that doesn’t sound like you’re worried about money. When you turn down a deal that returns $280 million instantly, and $3 billion over its length, it’s definitely not about money. Remember the argument was initially abotu finances, but when wsa the last time the League argued about that? It’s implausible to make an argument about finances when the players have just corrected your losses problem instantly, and with revenue sharing every team is guaranteed a profit every year. Right now, with a 50/50 split and the system proposed by players every single team would make a healthy profit every single year, guaranteed.
    That’s why the League has shifted the discussion to one about competitive balance. Unfortunately few people have noted the change in discussion and focus because DAvid Stern is slicker than a mutha.

  • bike

    Stern made a fatal mistake challenging pro athletes that are highly competitive in nature anyway to an ultimatum. Still, there is an outside chance the season could be saved. The two sides, if they are smart, will resolve this before January. Problem is, neither side is very smart. The players have no idea what they are doing here and how it will play out.

  • LA Huey

    When Kunta Kinte was recaptured his owners didn’t just improve on methods in place to restrict his movement. They also gave him some scars so he wouldn’t try that ish again.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Right, Stern is the mountain standing in the way of getting a reasonable deal for the players. I just wasn’t totally sure about the angle he was playing, but now that you put it like that…..

  • http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gabriel-a-feldman/the-legal-issues-behind-t_2_b_1081107.html Allenp

    Nah, Stern is a representative for the owners. Everything he does is approved and condoned by a majority of them. Stern takes the heat, but he’s really just the front man.
    Look, the owners want to control the destiny of superstars, control the salaries of all players, and get richer doing it.
    Those are the three main goals. All of the deals presented have those three goals at their core. I’m not sure why it’s surprising to fans that players find that objectionable and I’m saddened by the overall selfishness espoused by fans and media members.
    We should not be ok with people having to sacrifice so we can get what we want, particularly when what we want is not that important to our overall lives.
    Why are we entitled to NBA basketball? Why should players take a poor deal for them just so we can get what we want? Why are owners expected to seek the best possible deal for them, and players expected to be happy with whatever they get? Why do people support that power dynamic?
    Why do people believe that the owners receiving basically half of all League revenues since 1999 was insufficient for them to pay expenses? What proof is there of that? Why have people ignored the information that the NBA has seen revenue increase every year for the past 16 years? Why isn’t that important?
    I just don’t understand how people think sometimes. Why are people comfortable with other people taking the fall so they can get what they want and the world can run smoothly? Yes, the players make millions, but they would still be getting a poor deal compared to what they SHOULD be getting, at least in my opinion. I guess for most people, the players should just be grateful they make the money they make, and I think that says a lot about the mindset of most Americans.

  • http://nba.com GP23

    DAMN IT!! College ball is cool..but it’s not the NBA. Smh

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Toby, my name is….toby.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    What I’m saying is, Stern’s ability to tell a story, and to paint the picture in a certain way, is preventing the general public from being educated on the lockout, and thus preventing the pressuring of owners to make realistic negotiations. I’m re-listening to Stern’s address on ESPN, he basically questions the intelligence on the leadership of the players association, blames the entirety of the situation on the players, compliments his fans as the smartest in any professional sport, and then basically apologizes because the players are making it impossible to negotiate. He even claims the players are not negotiating “in good faith” and says they have already filed the complaint with the courts.

  • archer

    i though Kobe was gona go play for that italy team…?…what ever happen with that? ….

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    No, ESPN and their reporters are the ones preventing the general public from fully understanding the lockout. They are the ones that refuse to delve into the finer details of the owner’s proposal instead they keep on harping on the 50/50 split like it’s the only thing. Those clowns choose to keep the public uninformed because like AllenP stated in the past, reporters similar to the the public have a deep resent towards the players and the kind of money they make.

  • shutupallenp

    @allenp i dont agree with the majority of your posts and you still seem like a snobby wannabe know it all, but i agree 100% The fans have to realize they have more in common with the players than they do the owners. these players are people that have to do whats best for them. we as fans should just be patient and realize that the nba will be back sooner than later, until then go buy mw3 so i can shoot you in the face

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    ESPN shows NBA GAMES. The Owners Decide where their games will air on TV. If David Stern represents the Owners, the media that represents the NBA will echo whatever it is Stern is pushing. If the situation was reversed, and the players were on strike, ESPN would outline all of the financial information that they could to appeal to the people who sign their checks. The Owners. And would thus be doing the exact opposite of what they are doing now. It doesn’t have to do with a resentment towards players. It’s about where the money comes from.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    I’m not so sure about that because during the NFL lockout, ESPN did a great job explaining the ins and outs of both side’s proposals and ESPN receives way more money from the NFL than it does from the NBA. Those guys that run True Hoop are the only ones doing their jobs, ignoring who “pays their checks” by explaining both sides. The problem is when was the last time Henry Abott or Kevin Arnovitz were interviewed on SC? Never but guys like Stephen A Smith and Chris Broussad are always on there.

  • IAMORANGE4EVER

    I blame the agents greed, the players pride and the hardline owners’ for being so damn stubborn if there is no 2011-12 season. Still, that offer by the owners that was on the table while the clock was stopped, when read entirely, was fair enough to get the season started. Worst case scenario the players opt out of in 6 years. I actually agreed with eliminating the use of extend and trades during the season, because of all the media circus that comes with that type of scenario leading up to the trade deadline. Without extend and trades available, sign and trades would’ve occurred more than they did in the last CBA, which is why hardline owners wanted to eventually eliminate sign and trades as well.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Chris Broussard and his army of “sources” have thoroughly annoyed the hell out of me during this lockout.

  • robb

    You should have done this months ago dumbasses. Thank you very much.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Taylor, are you sure? I mean, I don’t doubt it, but there is what 34 football games on ESPN a season? And a 100+ basketball games? Plus there was no way to put the Owners in a good light in the NFL negotiations, they were just talking about chunks of profit. idk, i’m always going to be under the assumption that every media company is always going to portray each story in the best interest of whoever funds their company. Like Fox with Republicans. ESPN loves the NBA Owners. CBS’s staff does a great job of releasing impartial stories, and they don’t air a single NBA game. For example.

  • http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gabriel-a-feldman/the-legal-issues-behind-t_2_b_1081107.html Allenp

    shutupallenp
    Well thank you for that wonderful backhanded compliment.
    I agree with NBK and JTaylor on why the coverage is what it is. Both of you can be right in this scenario.
    Man, think about how many times you’ve heard people say that NBA players should be grateful for whatever deal they get because they are still making millions.
    Then think about the last time you heard anybody argue that owners should be grateful for whatever they get.
    Just think about it.

  • underdog

    I think the players made the right (and probably only) move in this situation. Some of the owners are maybe not going to feel the loss in revenue, but the small market teams are going to suffer. Are they really ready to miss two seasons? I’m not sure at all.

  • http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gabriel-a-feldman/the-legal-issues-behind-t_2_b_1081107.html Allenp

    And the idea of “fair enough” is a strange one.
    What are the standards of fairness?
    The only way you think a deal that requires players to take less money AND sacrifice the market for their services, is if you think the owners DESERVE to have it better than players.
    And then you need to ask yourself why you feel that way.
    The word “owner” is just a word.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    nbk, you’re probably right. I just feel that as reporters, ESPN should have done a better job explaining the ins and outs of the Owner’s proposal and why the players rejected it. When they harp on the 50/50 split without explaining why it isn’t even a legit 50/50 split along with all the new system changes, it comes off as the players being greedy. This lockout and the way the media handled it, is further proof of unfair, one sided and unbalanced reporting becoming the norm. Why do you think Fox News continues to thrive?

  • IAMORANGE4EVER

    You’re sounding like Etan Thomas, AllenP. Bottom line, there comes a time you have to look in the mirror and realize you’ve lost, and the players union couldn’t do that, and a lot of people are going to suffer because of it. The truth is the only real winners today were the lawyers. Enjoy no 2011-12 NBA season.

  • Heals

    Wow Allen you’re responsible for the creation of a comment name. You on a whole nutha level now. ESPN can’t be relied upon just like FOXNews can’t be. They are media enterpirizes that just so happen to revolve around sports/politics. It’s not their fault because their agenda is obvious. This is on the people, the fans to the see through the fog. If anything when watching ESPN you should question their points, see through the flimsy statistics, scoff at the knee-jerk analysis (see the Heat or TonyRomo) and laugh at the absurdity of their attempts to be “urban” or “with the times.” ESPN is like TigerBeat, it’s kiddy stuff; fantasy is what matters, what if’s become actualities that are dissected like facts, the past is quickly forgotten or marginalized, perception is treated as reality and when someone loses their is always someone/something to point the finger at…

  • http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gabriel-a-feldman/the-legal-issues-behind-t_2_b_1081107.html Allenp

    Etan Thomas is an intelligent dude. I’ll take that comparison.
    The players do not lose until they agree to a deal that shafts them. How else have they lost?
    Orange, let’s be real. You want to watch the NBA. Whatever deal allows you to watch the NBA is the deal you want. It’s not about fairness, it’s about you being allowed to watch the NBA. Once people admit to this very salient fact, and then ask themselves why they believe other people should sacrifice so they can get what they want, then we will have some enlightenment.
    Why do you believe that in order for you to get what you want, other people should take less than what they want? Why do you feel entitled to that deal?
    It’s amazing that more people don’t ask themselves this question. Then again, it explains most of the wars in human history.

  • LA Huey

    ORANGE, I understand it’s been awhile since you’ve been this excited to be a Knicks fan but you’re saying “there comes a time you have to look in the mirror and realize you’ve lost, and the players union couldn’t do that, and a lot of people are going to suffer because of it.” The union has given in plenty, face the facts. And if you’re going to direct anger, how about facing towards the owners who should look in the mirror and realize that they’ve gotten more than enough?

  • Heals

    Knowledge = snobby, an “outsider” that tries his best to understand how those on the “inside” operate/think = wannabe. Okay…

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    There is still the possibility of a shortened season. On NBA TV they said there’s probably around 6 weeks left of negotiating time. The union is not completely disbanded, either. They didn’t completely decertify.

  • sanman

    Both sides are dumb asses!

  • LA Huey

    On a less academic note, you guys see the pictures of the players making their announcement? Man, Russbrook is posturing at the front doing his best Bodie (his look-alike from The Wire) impression. I’m scouring videos of it to see it he spat through his teeth at any point.

  • Red Star

    This really sucks! I don’t care who’s fault it is, it’s mid November and I’m seriously jonesing here!

  • http://facebook.com/lijiabin justine bacnis

    is it time for other players to play overseas, like china or europe?

  • http://dodgers.com Joey E.

    it’s official guys, the NBA doesnt care about us. F them. i hope they all go broke

  • Galagu

    this sucks. can we extend the college ball season then??

  • shutupallenp

    @heals i defend my snobby opinion. and no knowledge doesnt equal snobby but you=turd. i find it snobby when someone says he was a better football player than lebron in hs or comes to a basketball website and acts like posting links to financial information makes him a genius. but i still agree with his view on the players need to fight for their best interest. when these players are sweating in the gym and we as fans are sitting at home eating junkfood are we worrying about them? or their kids? no we make fun of jason kidds big headed son and call lebron mentally weak or kobes a douche but its just entertainment for us this is their life.

  • shutupallenp

    oh and on another semi wire related note wood harris can really play ball, but I was expecting Leon to be better than he was, I busted his ass down battery park nyc a few years back, decent jumpshot but hes a snob too. as in he thinks people should just not play D on him because he played jesus in a music video

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    LOL
    I never said I was better than Lebron. Dude was all state and could have gone major D1. I just could have played.

  • Heals

    You’re using someone else’s name as comment tag (congrats you got some attention for the day). Way to speak up though, cause you know this is the first day Allen has posted on the lockout. I=turd, that’s chill been called worse, but whatever do you…

  • shutupallenp

    you implied it when someone posted lebron was a better hs player than you and you replied u sure. cmon now lets not lie now. the artice was titled nfl player calls lebron mentally weak or something like that

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    This dude just makes stuff up.

  • shutupallenp

    NFL Players’ Advice to LeBron James: Stick to Basketball thats the articles name. origanal post at 10:40 am reply at oct 17th 11:18 am. call me a liar again. and allenp is white ask him

  • shutupallenp

    sorry to shatter your lil world nbk. did i just blow your mind?

  • http://www.facebook.com/#!/joe.l.brewer3 BlackPhantom

    @shutupallenp c’mon dude you’re greatly embarassing yourself

  • shutupallenp

    and i used his name because he was acting like a snob to call his attention to it. but everyone that jumps to defend him its cool i feel you, but get your facts straight.

  • shutupallenp

    i never knew being right was embarrassing. but i guess im embarrassed. at least i got him to back track on that better than lebron football talk, thats all i really wanted when i first posted as duhwinning.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    You might want to copy and paste that. Cuz comments at either of those times don’t exist on that page.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Allenp Posted: Oct.14 at 10:48 am
    Spielman went in on Bron.
    And Spielman use to be a linebacker with the Lions, I think. Pretty good cat, bruiser.
    But it’s true, the mental toughness needed to play pro football is crazy. I don’t think people appreciate the level of damage they inflict upon their bodies every week, and what it takes to get your body in shape to handle that punishment.
    It’s why I don’t watch the NFL anymore. It’s a bloodsport man, with the absolute worst arrangement for the players as far as contracts. And then they get shafted on medical help after they retire.

    Allenp Posted: Oct.14 at 11:31 am
    There is no comparison between the contact in football and basketball. NONE.
    Every tackle in football has the same force effect on your body as a moderate car crash.
    So they have dozens of moderate car crashes per game.
    The level of force exerted on the backs, knees and shoulders of offensive lineman is INSANE. The lineman who makes it through a career without major back, arm or knee surgery is unheard of. And this isn’t minor stuff, this is reconstructive, spine fusion stuff.
    I played football, only in high school but I was pretty good, and I’m telling you that to excel in football you have to be slightly insane when you’re on the field. That sport is crazy man.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Seems like your making stuff up

  • shutupallenp

    @allenp Im sure Lebron was a better hs football player than you. People act as if he never played football. And all this mentally weak talk is bs, i mean hes no MJ but who is? at the end of the day Lebron is a gifted individual who would probably excel at any athletic endeavor. And the reason people pick basketball over football is because who wants to spend an entire game/match/event where you dont touch the ball or only play one side of the ball.
    Allenp Posted: Oct.17 at 11:18 am
    ^You sure?

  • shutupallenp

    and the comments are later on at the end of the post

  • shutupallenp

    copy and pasted

  • shutupallenp

    65 posts u lose all credibility too nbk. slamonline where people can lie and others co-sign it blindly.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Oh so your assuming he was talking about the First of the (1 “LeBron was a better HS football player than you” 2 “all these mentally weak comments are bs” 3 “excel at any athletic endeavor,” 4 “. And the reason people pick basketball over football is because who wants to spend an entire game/match/event where you dont touch the ball or only play one side of the ball.”) FOUR Erroneous “facts” you presented. Gotcha….

  • http://Www.fiba.com Darksaber

    Good grief. End the lockout already so the SlamFam can find other topics to write (i.e. claim superior knowledge) about.

  • robb

    Maybe Allenp’s snobby but he’s helped me understand some aspects of basketball I totally ignored, specially this whole lockout mess. Snobby or not his posts are helpful, I’m sure I’m not the only one.

  • http://www.facebook.com/#!/joe.l.brewer3 BlackPhantom

    *sigh*

  • Ballislove

    Smh smh…

  • MUBWAR

    just left work and this is how hunter greets me. disrespectful. thanks a lot. now the season might be in jeopardy. This actually is the 1st time i feel the season might sleep away HOPE I’M WRONG

  • http://www.facebook.com/#!/joe.l.brewer3 BlackPhantom

    co-sign robb

  • shutupallenp

    wow, get your head outta his ass. so now these posts do actually exist. Never said allenp wasnt informative but thats your fault for skipping to the sports section. @nbk just take the loss and walk away, dont try to spin it to save what he said.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Lol my credibility Relies on me saying you make stuff up? Haha 10-04 Roger Roger

  • shutupallenp

    the first 80% of the paper have what we call non-sports related news like current events and stuff. Im trying to win this slam crowd over by emulating snobbishness is it working?

  • http://sportsnickel.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/silvastpierre.jpg Jukai

    Welp, I don’t like this at all. Shoulda decertified. Not sure what their plan is here. This didn’t work for the NFL and it wont work for the NBA.

  • Andyy

    Plain and simple this is about power and profit for the owners. The players will unfortunately lose these negotiations and for them to have had any leverage they would have had to have a strike at some point last season. Both the NBA and NFL lockout has given me a distaste for capitalism because of all the greed that comes out of it. People in this country have to realize, before it’s too late, where we’re headed.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    I didnt defend anything other than saying you make stuff up. Which is based on our last conversation. Here it just seems like your an assumptionist. Or a pathological assumptioner? Either way, either ways fine. Allen can defend himself though your opinion of him is yours, you hold it dear and let it fuel that little fire…we wouldn’t have you without it now would we?

  • Heals

    You got snobby down pat man. See to me a snob would be someone who has info and holds it over others or purposely speaks with an arrogance. robb summed it up well, we all have opinions on owners v players, but Allen helped many fill-in the economic blanks. If you disagree with how he portrays himself or that info call it out as you see it. To me (judging from your recent comments) it’s like you been sitting back holding a grudge and gathering ammo on dude. It’s tough when reading text: to you I guess it’s snobby, to me it’s a frustration with how the lockout has been conducted by both sides (but obviously more so the owners for him, me and many others), covered and reported on by the media at large, interpreted by an overwhelming majority of the public and how it parallels many issues that are/will be ailing America going forward. Now excuse me I need to flush…

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    What is the difference between filing a disclaimer and actually decertifying the players’ union?

  • http://www.knicks.com Gametimeweezy

    @IAMORANGE4EVER at 2:25 I thought you said grabbing their ankles… that would be more fitting because thats what David Stern expected the players to do…

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    nvm, reading Allenp’s comment on the other thread.

  • http://wikipedia.org Eddie1

    All these comments and y’all still don’t get it. Illuminati. There. Now we can stop commenting and focus on other aspects of Bball.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    No, you can give me some lottery numbers.

  • shutupallenp

    I dont feel its snobby to hold a grudge for someone belittling your intellect. He took a shot at me I fired back and called him on his bs. I dont believe on hate bandwagongers either, now its fashionable to hate lebron i get it but to imply you could play a sport better to me just seemed asinine. I can let bygone be bygones obviously because i said i agree with his comments on this post. I just found it funny you just as quick jump to his defense without objectively reading what he posted. and I avoid assumptions the last convo we had was based on a comment he himself admitted was directed to more black youths than anything else, and i took offense.

  • http://slamonline.com datkid

    shutallenp/bulls22 nobody thinks allenp is snobby. we all think you’re a jack@ss tho. Allenp has literally taught me almost as much about basketball on this website as my dad…that’s a little far but he’s taught me a lot.

  • http://www.offthebackboard.wordpress.com Off The Backboard

    I think AllenP was just being sarcastic when he said “you sure?”. On another note, this sucks. I keep reading that the chances of the players winning this in court is pretty slim – anyone have any insight into that?

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Your assuming in saying he was saying he was better than LeBron, rather than saying “you sure” to the other 3 things you asserted. Nobody is defending anything and I’m not putting in any opinion. What your doing is assuming. And running with it to fuel that hate fire that brings you to comment. which is what it is. I just want to make sure that it’s clear that what your saying is not very accurate, if at all. I would do the same thing if you were obsessed with (illogically) hating on anyone else here.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Nick Tha Quick

    Think the lockout discussion has been beaten to death by now by everyone above. Still keep saying it though, you wont find comments like this on SLAM: “The crime rate will soar.” “Who gives a damn about illiterate, overpaid thugs crying over a few millions.” “Now it’s back to Mcdonald’s and Burger King, thugs” “I’m surprised that the players are so eloquent and knowledgeable. It’s a credit to their race.” I’m glad 98% of Slam is above this.

  • http://www.offthebackboard.wordpress.com Off The Backboard

    Thought this was interesting, written by Abbott: Instead of putting the decision to 450 players, the union put the decision to 30 player representatives who, the union says, were unanimous in rejecting the deal and taking new legal action.

    As soon as that decision was announced, I asked union spokesman Dan Wasserman, who was standing in the back of the room next to attorney Jeffrey Kessler, why the union was turning to the group of 30 representatives.

    The union has three player bodies it can consult: The executive committee, the 30 elected representatives and the full membership. Why that middle body?

    I was asking what I thought was a fairly boring question. I would have been satisfied with a response about by-laws or somesuch. But Wasserman and Kessler blew up. I couldn’t even finish the question before both were loud, gruff and dismissive.

    The gist of the response was that you cannot give your adversary direct access to the membership. “That’s not how any union in America, that I’m aware of, operates,” said Kessler. If the NBA is just going to send offers straight to the players, why even have a union? The idea is that the union is savvier, and knows a good deal when it sees one. And only when the union is sure that the deal is in players’ best interests will they present it to the workers.

  • Heals

    Somethings getting lost in translation here. I have nothing to do with who, how, when or why your intellect was belittled. This LBJ thing you 2 got goin on – I haven’t typed a word on it (not my style or territory). So it’s not clear to me how I defended him. I stood by and stand by his sharing of financial info and legal jargon. How am I biased when the financial info is often links to respected journalists’ pieces and the legal jargon copied and pasted directly from the initial source. Also I appreciate you telling me how I’ve interpreted any info he’s shared (that’s not an assumption right?). As for your discussion/convo of black youths – Once again haven’t typed a word on it and furthermore have no clue to which conversation you are referring…

  • http://www.offthebackboard.wordpress.com Off The Backboard

    Thought this was interesting, written by Abbott: Instead of putting the decision to 450 players, the union put the decision to 30 player representatives who, the union says, were unanimous in rejecting the deal and taking new legal action. As soon as that decision was announced, I asked union spokesman Dan Wasserman, who was standing in the back of the room next to attorney Jeffrey Kessler, why the union was turning to the group of 30 representatives. The union has three player bodies it can consult: The executive committee, the 30 elected representatives and the full membership. Why that middle body? I was asking what I thought was a fairly boring question. I would have been satisfied with a response about by-laws or somesuch. But Wasserman and Kessler blew up. I couldn’t even finish the question before both were loud, gruff and dismissive. The gist of the response was that you cannot give your adversary direct access to the membership. “That’s not how any union in America, that I’m aware of, operates,” said Kessler. If the NBA is just going to send offers straight to the players, why even have a union? The idea is that the union is savvier, and knows a good deal when it sees one. And only when the union is sure that the deal is in players’ best interests will they present it to the workers.

    ———-Honestly, I’m a bit annoyed that they didn’t even take a vote to see if most of the players would want to sign it, they just assumed that the player reps spoke accurately for all the 400+ players in the league. The more this drags on, the more Stern seems like the good guy in all of this.

  • http://www.offthebackboard.wordpress.com Off The Backboard

    Yikes: “Stern warned, “If the union is not in existence, then neither are $4 billion worth of guaranteed contracts that are entered into under condition that there’s a union.”

    Stern and the NBA have asked a judge in the Southern District of New York to essentially rule the same. The NBA’s argument is that in the event the players’ disclaimer is found valid, and if it’s determined that the collective bargaining relationship between the players and the owners has ceased, then all player contracts should also cease, becoming null and void. “

  • dojo
  • Heals

    @OTB, ouch. Don’t stand in front of the fan cause the shht is flying today. Thanks for 1 more C’s…

  • http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/2011_11_13_archive.html Maniac

    Been busy so I haven’t been commenting much. Long story short, I think the players should have been given an opportunity to vote. I’ve been on the owners side since the beginning and still am, though I don’t fully agree with all the new rules they want under the new CBA. I think Allenp & nbk have made the best points on the whole lockout situation. Interesting article by a writer a follow on today’s announcement: click my name. I’m out

  • http://Www.fiba.com Darksaber

    Crickey, OTB’s quote just made me gulp.
    4 billion: void. How do you like that salvo, players?

  • andre anglais

    A good story in the NYT online today “NBA Season in peril as players reject offer” that raises 2 good points:
    1) decertifying is the first step before taking the League to court in an anti trust suit. To win this, you have to show that you tried to negotiate in good faith. Thus, they had to take negotiations as far as this (to the point where the owners were back-pedalling and dropping ultimatums)
    2) The players authorized the “decertification” LAST SEASON, in essence giving Billy and Fish the green light to decert when the timing was appropriate.
    Interesting, the NBAPA is now a “trade association”, with Billy still acting as its head.
    Negotiations are STILL possible – in my opinion, although the owners might be cool with missing a season, they will want to have public opinion on their side, so they know they have a viable product when games begin again. In all honesty, I think the owners are losing the PR war, and will continue to as the lockout continues: America is pretty pro-labour these days, and (I hope – not an american) less racist.

  • Patrick

    Did the players get to vote on the on nba’s last offer (50/50 bri)? Or did Hunter not ler them?

  • BBaller

    A scenario if you will
    Player: sniff, sniff sob, sob
    Wife : What’s wrong honey?
    Player: I have to go and play BBall for only $10000 this week!
    Wife : Ah that’s pretty harsh, how will you ever pay for our 5 star holidays, private school education for the kids and college, plus a new piece of jewellery every week for me?
    Player:I know , plus , now i can’t afford playstation games and fuel my 6 luxury cars and pay for my mistress’s mansion in another city.
    Wife: Is there anything you can do?
    Player: We can decertify our union, it will mean we lose a years income, but i’m only thinking of future players so I’ll take a strong stance, we deserve a minimum of $200000 a week, we put a lot hard work in, not like the arena workers on $18000 a year but we deserve it.
    Wife:You do that honey, how can i ever tell my friends we only can afford 4 star holidays and we can only live in a 6 bedroom house!
    Player: I’ll stand for what i think i deserve, it’s about me and if it wasn’t for the fans paying excessive admission prices to watch a game that everyone owns i would be be unemployed and working at McDonalds.To hell with the owners and the fans.It’s about me and our needs.

  • TP

    The players had 57% of basketball related income last year. This year, I think they offered to take 51%.

    The players were very real. The owners were greedy fools. Not more complicated than that.

  • Exile

    Junk. Should have taken the deal.

  • http://Slamonline.com Caboose

    I may hate LeBron, but I’d give almost anything to watch him dominate again.
    I may hate the Lakers, but I’d give almost anything to see them win again.
    Nets vs Cavs may be a terrible game but I’d give almost anything to watch it.
    The Magic are my team and I’d give almost anything to hear about their training camp.
    But I won’t give up, and what the players never should, is the determination to stand up for what’s right.
    RIP 2011-2012 NBA season. Your sacrifice will not be in vain.

  • BBaller

    No Owners=No NBA
    Players are replaceable, void all contracts and i bet if you offer 430 new players $100k a year in 5 years time to play BBall, they would take it.
    Spoilt for too long.

  • shutupallenp

    @bballer lemme guess you vote republican and think that obama has destroyed the country.owners are replaceable too, there are many people with money that could back a team.
    oh player to wife im sorry i have to miss Christmas, and my sons birth but i wanna make as much money as i can because a career ending injury might happen next game, or I might want to contend for a championship in my career.

  • http://www.offthebackboard.wordpress.com Off The Backboard

    They conceded to BRI, which is commendable, but they want to jeopardize a season because of shorter contracts and chances of increased parity with teams being able to retain their free agents? How is that worth it? According to Beck, “the new deal will give teams greater roster flexibility, and the chance to recover from mistakes more quickly.” what is wrong with that? It “restricts” player movements in free agencies and results in lesser contracts, but it will help all the teams stay competitive, thus making sure that guys like Chris Paul don’t leave small market teams for NYC because of bad contracts that management had to sign to keep their previously winning team in tact ( out of necessity). It makes sense for the NBA as a business – more teams can be competitive again faster because they don’t have to be haunted by bad contracts. Theoretically, here is the ramifications of the current proposal: “Contracts would be shorter. Players would become free agents sooner. Making trades would be simpler. The gap between rich and poor teams might be smaller. There might be fewer superteams and more parity, too.” Nothing wrong with that. Will all of that come true? Who knows? But is it worth losing a season over?

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Want to hear a joke? America is less racist. Are you kidding me?

  • BBaller

    To give perspective, Andrew Bogut was unable to play in Australia because his annual salary was worth more than the entire Australian NBL’s rosters!!! Why can all those players (NBLer’s) who play the game they “love” play for so much less but the NBAer’s cannot. Take the deal where they are still paid millions!!! Some would say they are not as good but no way would he be worth that inflated salary, he’d only manage decent stats, see Deron Williams.Damn I’m angry. BBall is my religion. I have no faith anymore.

  • http://www.offthebackboard.wordpress.com Off The Backboard

    The link Maniac had on his name is a great read. I find myself agree with the writer and backing the owners, honestly. “On November 13, Commissioner Stern sent a memo to the NBA players detailing the league’s most recent (and final) offer to end the lockout. The NBA’s proposed deal would have fixed the league’s broken business model but, contrary to media spin, hardly would have turned the players into “slaves”–unless you consider an average annual salary of close to $8 million per year to be a form of slavery.” —-”Commissioner Stern responded to that charge by noting that the two parties have been negotiating for more than two years without making much progress, so the owners presented the best offer that they could make at this time; the reality of the situation–i.e., the cost of missing the regular season games that have already been cancelled–obviously necessitates that subsequent offers will be reduced accordingly. That is not an “ultimatum” but simply the nature of doing business. Perhaps Commissioner Stern should have issued a real ultimatum; the 1998-99 lockout ended when Commissioner Stern presented the players with a final offer accompanied by the statement that if the players did not accept that offer then the league would cancel the entire season and use replacement players starting in 1999-2000. Commissioner Stern has refrained from publicly making a similar threat this time around.”

  • http://www.offthebackboard.wordpress.com Off The Backboard

    What does this have anything to do with race? I get annoyed when people bring race into a topic that has nothing to do with it. This argument boils down to people who believe in business principles presented by the owners vs. people who side with the players over a connection of “fighting against the man”. There are some commenters on here who often point out that the NBA’s accounting is shady, and David Friedman has the exact retort I was looking for for that argument. It is: “I also understand that some people are skeptical of the NBA’s accounting (or of accounting methods in general) but it is mystifying that some people apparently believe that the NBA owners should operate under a business model which results in them losing money or that the owners should be obligated to pay out well over 50% of their revenues when they are not making a profit. There is so much talk about supposedly incompetent owners demanding guaranteed profitability but I have yet to hear anyone talk about the other side of the equation; guaranteed contracts ensure profitability for every NBA player, regardless of whether or not that player is even marginally productive and regardless of that player’s off court transgressions: Gilbert Arenas shoots blanks on the court and brings guns into the locker room but until the lockout he was guaranteed to receive more than $60 million over the next three seasons. In just about any other profession, Arenas would be out of work due to the combination of low performance and erratic personal behavior but as an NBA player he probably would have had to commit (and be convicted of) murder to lose his guaranteed money.” ———–Seriously, read that article. At this point, I don’t understand why the players would do this without taking a vote. Someone said yesterday that antitrust lawsuits have nothing to do with “bargaining in good faith”…nope, under antitrust law in the US, essentially all the players can argue is that the NBA displayed a “refusal to deal”, which essentially, boils down to whether or not they bargained in good faith. Considering that the owners proposal is based on the weakness of the NBA’s previous business model, and given the fact that owners have conceded on a variety of issues, why would the courts rule in the players favour?

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    So CP should be forced to remain with the Hornets for possibly his entire career and miss out at the chance of getting a ring(s) with a better supporting cast somewhere else just to keep the Hornets and its owner profitable? What kind of ish is that? No one had a problem with star players leaving average/good teams behind in hopes of playing for a ring with a better team but ever since the summer of 2010, it’s a big problem?

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Wolf in sheep’s clothing.

  • BBaller

    @shutupallen,No way man, Obama is great, he needs to be in Government for 4 terms to correct the disgusting Bush Government that he inherited. So much love for him!!! Miss Xmas, for $100000, yes, i miss xmas and new year every year in hospitality for a day off in january for $600! Plus i just had an injury whilst working , off work for 3 years, disabled for life, what did i get = nothing!

  • http://www.offthebackboard.wordpress.com Off The Backboard

    He’s not forced to remain with the Hornets. The proposal indicates that they can leave, but they get MUCH less money if they do. How is that unfair?

  • YoLu

    Agree with Off The Backboard; Maniac’s link is a nice read. I think Bill Simmons had a similar idea on yearly salary based on a level of performance breakdown: All-NBA, All Star, Starter, etc. Obviously this will never happen and has plenty of kinks to be worked out (media bias for one), but to me seems pretty fair and would definitely produce the most talent on the court.

    Until then we can only pray for quality ball in ’12-’13, with the focus on quality. We know several stars are in the gym, but there’s gonna be more than a few slackers especially if this goes for a season or more.

  • BBaller

    @JTaylor21, CP3 should not be forced to stay anywhere,no human should, but why doesn’t he look into the stands and see all the faces of the fans who have paid for his $40 million contract he has received, so his family is taken care of for life and instead of chasing glory repay them with loyalty.A lost trait amongst players these days, I’ll give it to Nash but CP has enjoyed the fruits of New Orleans fan’s labor for what? 1 decent season. So money made now, I’m gone….SAD, i bet he didn’t have that attitude when he was 15. “I’ll play anywhere for millions”

  • YoLu

    If a superstar wants to play for less money for a higher chance at a ring, then go for it. Auerbach killed for years getting players to do it, and I would not lose any respect for a player who chose the route. Of course building a franchise from the ground up (ie. Zeke, MJ, semi-Duncan, and Lebron) earns much more respect from me.

  • YoLu

    …but my respect want get you very far. I’m a bum.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    I all know is that the players should never accept any thing that restricts player movement. It’s not their duty to make sure every franchise’s profitable, that’s up the to the owners and GMs but we all know those clowns are incapable of making wise business decisions.

  • http://nbasobrietystrike.blogspot.com/ CoolWhip

    I’m playing nothing but ’808s and Heartbreaks’ all this week cause this is a sad sad day.
    However, if you expected a different outcome than you were just being blissfully naive. Read my site, the writing’s been on the wall for awhile.
    Not only have we lost a season, but the NBA as we know it is actually in jeopardy.

  • BBaller

    There are only 60 players worth their weight in gold(ie worth millions), that means 6 teams with rosters of 10. Is that what we want? Should the new NBA combine all divisions eg Midwest= Houston, Dallas & Spurs, NO, Memphis
    ( TD,Dirk,Z-Bo,TP, CP3,OJ,Manu,Kidd,Martin,Gasol) V South East( James, Wade,Bosh,Howard,Wall,Johnson,J.Smith,Halford,Nelson,McGee).I’d rather have 30 teams!!

  • BBaller

    While the players play on Xmas day, you don’t think they they bring their families with them? Put them in 5 star resorts, C’mon! Give them $1000 presents etc. the only teams that play on Xmas are big time salary earners.

  • YoLu

    I just tried posting this, but it didn’t go through….
    Parity is good and bad. We obviously need 3 or 4 of the most popular teams (NY, BOS, LA, CHI, and hopefully Brooklyn soon) to be in contention year in and year out. But the current system makes it too difficult to build through the draft quickly. It takes 4 or 5 years at the least (OKC did it flawlessly), but this takes so much luck and skill in the current draft setup. I think every team in the lottery (and maybe even extend the lottery to include the 7 and 8 seeds) should have the same probability at each position in the lottery. This would help teams trapped in the never-ending 6-10 seed range to potentially contend for a title the next season with some luck. Maybe the Hornets/Warriors land a top-2 or 3 pick and get that last piece that puts them over the top. Unlucky teams would suffer, but it’s a potential solution to the parity problem and the top teams wouldn’t be hurt too much (except for maybe a little more competition).

  • YoLu

    …Just an idea for the owner’s parity problem.

  • Niyagirlfresh

    Both sides were selfish throughout this entire thing, it’s the fans that fill those seats. It’s the fans that buy the merchandise of the team, it’s the fans that tune in and watch the highly anticipated games. I feel bad for the rookies and the older players on their last legs seems like no one was thinking about them. All both sides were concerned about is who was gonna get the most dollar signs. No NBA season, college football is almost over WHAT THE HECK AM I SUPPOSE TO WATCH? Baseball is all kinds of boring to me, and my Colts suck so I’m darn sure not watching the NFL season. I need my basketball.

  • Scot Peirson

    First of all, the notice of disclaimer is NOT a decertification; which probably means that, while the union is able to file an antitrust suit it means that La Commish can’t follow up on his threat to void contracts.
    Even if he does try that, and is successful…then the sides settle…450 FREE AGENTS. If the small market owners or the incompetent owners in major markets think the L, under the current situation, favors the large market teams, wait and see what happens if Stern REALLY GOES THIS ROUTE. See where the superstars go–see if the Knicks don’t add CP3 LIKE THAT. Watch where KD ends up. If there’s a choice between Cleveland and Chicago for a player, where does he go (DUH!!!!)? Sacramento…or Los Angleles (And I DON’T mean the Clippers)??!?
    La Commish and the hard-line owners overplayed their hand.
    One more thing–hasn’t it been apparent, since that hit-job in the press that he did on Iverson, that Stephen A. has become the NBA front office’s “house slave”??!? They want their side of the story out, they want the players called “stupid”, then Stern has gone to SAS. Stephen A. has been compromised, and he’s been that way for awhile.

  • shutupallenp

    how long does an nba career last average of 3-4 years, the money they make have to support them for life, and i work in hospitality too working on holidays sux but all that travel has to be compensated, these players make billions for the owners. You say u play ball bballer do u understand the commitment to be good at a world class level? lets see if you wanna be running wind sprints when your 35. or how about moving your family at the whim of an owner, uprooting your children and moving to a new school. you obviously dont see these players as people, to you theyre probably just commodities.

  • Justin

    Whatever happened to players helping their organizations get better by working their asses off over the summer to not only make themselves but their teammates better. Magic Johnson and Larry Bird are two shining examples and so is Michael Jordan. At different times they were the best players in the league. Do they rest on their laurels and take it easy in the summer? Did they call up their buddies to try and make a super team like the chumps of today do? No, they were out there nearly every day shooting and working on the things necessary to get them ready and make their team a contender. Nowadays if a player isn’t drafted by the teams already in contention they play out their contract and bolt at the first opportunity to get paid higher. Also, when this lockout started weren’t the owners asking for 53% BRI, salary rollbacks, and a hard cap just to name a few things? Since they weren’t asking for those anymore wouldn’t that be considered making concessions? I find it funny when people are saying the players are making all of the concessions because they’re coming down from 57%. They were getting too much to begin with! The owners got shafted on that deal and now it will somewhat even itself out (with the owners getting a little more in the end)

  • Justin

    And btw, players don’t miss the birth of their children. They are allowed to go home for that. The only ones that miss the births of their children are the ones that didn’t know they were going to be a father in the first place

  • BBaller

    @shutupallen, I am 35 and have kids, if the money is where the work is I’d have to move, such is life.The kids would need to understand that! After 3-4 years in the nba i would of made 1.5-2 million at minimum, in hospitality i have to work 25-30 years for that.Without the interest on a 500k income earned.

  • BBaller

    Boo hoo ,poor commodities.

  • YoLu

    Say the NBPA decertifies and the owners go the replacement players route (obviously extremely unlikely). Since NBA players would no longer be associated with the former union could they make up some of these replacement players? It would obviously be frowned upon, but I think someone like Kevin Martin would do it (assuming it can be done) and cause more to follow.

  • Janus Ramos

    Both players and owners are greedy. No NBA for this season.

  • Thomas

    There will be a season! Something miraculous will happen and it will soon work out, I know it!

  • https://plus.google.com/photos/106403650426394352312/albums/posts davidR

    bballer, are you in the top 1% of your profession? the players create a lot of value for their markets (which make a lot of money), and because they are in the top 1% of performers in their profession, they rightfully earn thousands/millions.
    what’s there to complain about?

  • andrew

    yo SLAM, you better start digging your archives for MORE shawn bradley posters.

  • http://sportsnickel.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/silvastpierre.jpg Jukai

    YoLu: I don’t think you understand. It’s not like the union is striking and the league is putting together replacement teams and there are scabs who are just waiting to cross the picket line…
    The league has barred ALL PLAYERS FROM PICKING UP A BASKETBALL. That’s why it is a lockout.
    If they start signing people to start playing basketball, they open themselves up to all new and exciting litigation. Litigation that would probably be solved much sooner than the anti-trust law items.
    Remember, if the league wanted to… they could have just allowed the players to play without a CBA in place. The NFL did that in the late 80s. Although, that is also tricky legal grounds from what I understand.
    But no, it would be far too risky to put together replacement teams. The NBA would be pretty much handing over ammunition to the NBAU— er, trade association or whatever.

  • http://www.slamonline.com UNFROZEN CAVEMAN LAWYER

    2011-2012 NBA MVP- SHAWN BRADLEY

  • Justin

    Yes, but if they allowed the players to keep playing without a CBA in place they’d be operating under the old rules right? Which means the owners would be losing more money and the players aren’t exactly going to be sprinting to the negotiating table with things staying pretty much the same

  • gb

    NBA 2k13: charity game edition. build your own team of super starts and celebirties. play at highschool and dII college gyms. only catch: KD plays in every game and scores at lease 43 points

  • http://sportsnickel.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/silvastpierre.jpg Jukai

    Justin: Yes, but at least they could keep the momentum of the season strong. I guess it does undermine their whole “strong arm” tactic.

  • http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gabriel-a-feldman/the-legal-issues-behind-t_2_b_1081107.html Allenp

    I didn’t write that article. Now I understand the confusion. Marcel Mutoni wrote that article. And Marcel is white and he does write about the Knicks.
    Okay, now I understand.

  • http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gabriel-a-feldman/the-legal-issues-behind-t_2_b_1081107.html Allenp

    At first I thought the players should vote, but I also realize that is what Stern wanted. Most players hadn’t read the entire deal, weren’t abreast of all the wheeling and dealing and would have just voted on the idea that they wanted to play and get checks.
    Then, when they were gettting shafted by system issues they would have complained that the union did a poor job of explaining to them what they were voting for during bargaining. People don’t want to do the work, but then want somebody to protect them when things go bad.
    Besides, I didn’t see Stern presenting the players proposal to the owners for a “vote” so that we could see how split the ownership was on accepting the players deal. But nobody asked Stern about that, did they? Because he runs sh*t.

  • http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gabriel-a-feldman/the-legal-issues-behind-t_2_b_1081107.html Allenp

    And think y’all need to examine the deal offered by the owners.
    The deal allows the owners to gain incredible leverage over all superstars, and all other players.
    They can easily dictate which teams superstars can play for, regardless of how well that team does in surrounding the superstar with talent. They can then greatly reduce the market for every other player meaning they can in turn decrease their pay.
    And that’s on top of the players already conceding $280 million in BRI revenue, which actually means the owners will get $500 million more in total revenue if revenue stays around $4 billion.
    The owners pretended it was about getting paid, then when the players caved on them getting paid, it became about who controls the League.
    The players don’t want to return to the days of the reserve clause, even if they still pretend that free agency exists. That’s what this is about. If you have more suitors, you make more money.

  • bike

    Ten years from now, both the players and owners will look back and regret all of this.
    No doubt Stern deeply regrets the possibility of losing a season – he in all likelihood wrangled the best possible deal for the players considering the position some of the small market owners have taken.
    Billy Hunter learned absolutely nothing from the previous lockout. Absolutely nothing.
    Stern pulled an epically stupid move by giving the players an ultimatum . You don’t threaten guys who have been fiercely competitive their entire lives.
    As bad as this deal seems for the players, it is in no way is bad enough to lose a season over. It makes no sense for the players financially.
    And furthermore, the recession we are in is real. Rank and file public will not sympathize with millionaires and billionaires wrestling over a 4 billion dollar pot of gold.

  • http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gabriel-a-feldman/the-legal-issues-behind-t_2_b_1081107.html Allenp

    It only makes no sense if you think that making money is the most important thing.
    In the name of capitalism, the NBA owners are creating a system that ignores many of the most important tenets of capitalism. And they claim it’s about competition, but they’ve offered no proof that this is true.

  • http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/page/wilbon-111114/the-nba-labor-impasse-reached-particularly-objectionable-economy IAMORANGE4EVER

    Michael Wilbon, once again, the VOICE OF REASON…click my name to read his article. Pretty much sums up how I feel about the whole situation right about now. With that said, F the players union, F the hardline owners, F the agents, and F the lawyers. F them all. I’m just going to dive into college hoops and forget the NBA until there’s a season again.

  • http://theurbangriot.com The NUPE

    Allenp: All of the owners did receive the latest player proposal and although they did not vote on it, each owner was able (and many did) give comments on it back to Stern about what they could/not accept in the proposal. This is the process that’s taken in mostly all the proposals received, the same process the NFL and MLB owners follow. I believe (don’t know with certainty) this is also the process the union follows, but instead of going to all the players, it only goes to each team rep (which each team voted for). In the last offer by the owners, Stern sent a copy of the full proposal to each of the players and made it public, this was done in hopes that all of the players would actually read it and then ‘push’ for a vote rather than risk the entire season. My guess is that relatively few players actually read it but almost all of the agents did. Then the agents advised their players not to accept the deal – most likely to protect the interest of the agent just as much as their players. The system issues in the latest proposal do heavily favor the owners, but I’d also say that the majority of the players would not be to heavily burdened with the changes. It’s primarily the superstars, all-stars and some other key players that would be impacted but the rank and file player (which out-number the others) would be minimally impacted and the 10-12 man on the roster are the ones who really want whatever deal they can get right now because they don’t have long to play in the NBA and each draft class that comes in, means more of them lose opportunities – if this season is in fact cancelled, they lose the entire season of pay and then risk not having a job at all next season – this is an issue the stars don’t worry about, but still represents a large portion of NBA players. IF the latest proposal was voted on by the players, my guess is it would have passed. I don’t know if that would have been good for the players in the long-run, but would have been good for the fans and good for the players for at least the short term. Then it would have been interesting to see what happens with players like D12 and CP3 as they negotiate their next deals. These are the two guys that will most visibly win/lose when the new CBA is agreed to.

  • http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gabriel-a-feldman/the-legal-issues-behind-t_2_b_1081107.html Allenp

    Nupe, good comment.
    I think that the players on the lower end of the totem pole would have felt the effects immediately.
    Their salaries would be reduced to deal with the decreased BRI. Teams would spend even more money on superstars since retaining them would be key. Players at the bottom would be scrabbling for scraps, with the added bonus of facing a stint in the D-League at a quarter of the league minimum as an added bonus.
    They would not have the chance to sign lucrative MLEs, which were key bargaining chips in years past. Basically, they would gain their paychecks for this season, but would jeopardize those same paychecks for the remainder of their careers.
    How long before players, desperate for dollars, would be signing non-guaranteed deals? And how long before that was the norm for players at the bottom of the heap?
    Yes, the superstars and middle class would take hits, but their talent shields them from certain things in the long run. The superstars would lose flexibility in where they play, but might gain on salary. The middle class would lose flexibility and lose pay. The lower class would never even have a shot at flexibility and have their entire pay structure imperiled.
    It would be the NFL-lite.

  • http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gabriel-a-feldman/the-legal-issues-behind-t_2_b_1081107.html Allenp

    Well let me correct that. The lower class would move from team to team every season like vagabonds and have to earn a spot in training camp every year. And their ranks would be expanded from the 13-15th player on the roster, to probably anybody from 9 to 15.

  • http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/page/wilbon-111114/the-nba-labor-impasse-reached-particularly-objectionable-economy IAMORANGE4EVER

    If anyone should be missing paychecks, it’s Billy Hunter, but he hasn’t and he won’t – that’s right, he’s still getting paid salary despite disclaimer of interest. That turkey just led the movement to throw away the best offer the players would get, and a lot of paychecks will be missed, and they are not coming back, yet silly Billy is still collecting his salary. The only way he wouldn’t have got paid, is if the players voted to decertify, something he didn’t want to do early on when it was time to do it in the summer. Happy Thanksgiving Turkeys Union, because you just got stuffed and the oven is preheating. Keep fighting for your pride while the owners are clinking their wine glasses together.

  • http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gabriel-a-feldman/the-legal-issues-behind-t_2_b_1081107.html Allenp

    “I tighten my belt before I beg for help. Foolish pride is what held me together through the years I wasn’t felt, which is why I ain’t never played myself.”

  • http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/page/wilbon-111114/the-nba-labor-impasse-reached-particularly-objectionable-economy IAMORANGE4EVER

    NBA Players Association executive director Billy Hunter salary: $2.5 million. It’s good to be Billy Hunter. Heck it’s good to be Etan Thomas too. lol…both SU alumni. SMH

  • http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/page/wilbon-111114/the-nba-labor-impasse-reached-particularly-objectionable-economy IAMORANGE4EVER

    Etan Thomas has made $44 over million dollars in salary thus far as an NBA player. I feel so sorry for him. I hope he will lead the charge to OCCUPY the NBA. It’s such a great cause. lol

  • http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/page/wilbon-111114/the-nba-labor-impasse-reached-particularly-objectionable-economy IAMORANGE4EVER

    *over 44 million

  • LA Huey

    Jya-Z quotes are nice

  • http://www.slamonline.com UNFROZEN CAVEMAN LAWYER

    ORANGE IS GOIN AGG THESE DAYS

  • http://sportsnickel.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/silvastpierre.jpg Jukai

    How much is Stern making in salary, IAMORANGE4EVER?

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Stern is making more then a max contract. I can tell you that.

  • http://www.offthebackboard.wordpress.com Off The Backboard

    The only reason Hunter didn’t decertify is to save his own a*s.

  • anila

    No Celtics=sad me

  • BBaller

    So upset ATM, need an NBA season badly. I want to understand where the players are coming from. How can i when the worst player on the worst team gets $1097520 a year!(Lazar Hayward)exactly WHO?. 4 times what my back surgeon made that made me able to walk again.

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