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Sunday, November 6th, 2011 at 11:35 am  |  105 responses

NBA Owners Give Players ‘Take-It-Or-Leave-It’ Offer


Another meeting, another non-conclusion. The players and owners gathered well into last night, with the result being what many are referring to as a “drop-dead” offer from the NBA, one that the union will have to either accept by this Wednesday—a take-it-or-leave-it date set by the League—or risk losing the entire season. Thus far, there have been no signs that the union is interested in embracing said deal. Great.

Here are some details, via Yahoo!:

NBA commissioner David Stern delivered the Players Association a take-it-or-leave-it offer, threatening the owners’ proposals will become substantially worse if the union doesn’t accept the deal by the close of business Wednesday.

“We’ve been given the ultimatum,” union president Derek Fisher said, “and our answer is, that’s not acceptable to us.”

Union officials scoffed at Stern’s depiction of the proposal, saying the commissioner is merely trying to “strong-arm” the players into accepting a bad deal.

If the players don’t agree by Wednesday to accept the proposal – which Stern described as including a revenue split that could give the players as much as 51 percent and as little as 49 percent – then the owners’ new offer would drop to 47 percent of basketball-related income for the players and include a “flex” salary cap.

“We want to allow the union enough time to consider our most recent proposal, and we are hopeful that they will accept,” Stern said, after acknowledging [union attorney] Kessler had already rejected the offer.

We’ll keep you updated as more info makes it way out, but in the meantime, we’re not only left wondering if the players will accept the deal on the table, but also if both parties are really willing to blow everything up…in early November?

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  • 2307

    F**KING HELL, NO SEASON THIS YEAR THEN!! NOT LOOKING GOOD AT ALL IF FISH HAS ALREADY SAID NO TO THE DEALS! WHATS GONNA CHANGE BETWEEN NOW AND WED? NOTHING! HOPE IM WRONG BUT REALLY CANT SEE THERE BEING A 2011/12 SEASON AT ALL! BUT MAYBE IM JUST FEARING THE WORST

  • TheBarberShop

    Let me know when the players/owners start fighting over how their consumer feels about all of this..

  • hiphopcop

    When you saw Kenyon Martin, JR smith and Chandler taking China deals that don’t allow you to get out until like March, something told me they knew something most of the public didn’t know, SMH

  • http://www.slamonline.com Jahmai

    Take it!!!!

  • http://www.slamonline.com Jahmai

    NBA: Where Watching NFL Happens

  • 23

    Every single player has said that the bottom line is they “want” to play. We will see if they REALLY want to play, or if they are just about the money. BOTTOM LINE IS THEY ARE MILLIONAIRES. 1 million a year to play Bball is amazing!!!!! Wake up and don’t forget many of these dudes came from poor neighborhoods. But apparently the money has gone to their heads!

  • Make It Happen!

    Yo, to make it easy on everyone…..let the players of the NBA form another league! The NBA has monopolised the basketball market long enough. It’s time to form another basketball super league as dominating as the NBA, PERIOD! Sponsors will provide revenue and the media will constantly provide free press as this will be a great story. Make it happen guys!!!!

  • http://ggfhh.com Jukai

    Leave it. The owners are ridiculous. Call their bluff and decertify.

  • http://www.slamonline.com spit hot fiyah

    it’s looking baaaaaad

  • http://www.slamonline.com spit hot fiyah

    @allenp can please expalin how the bri really affects the players. Does the amount of bri affect the size of the contracts and salaries? How does this income go to the players?

  • Brahsef

    23, it’s called being paid what you think you’re worth. Most people try to avoid falling into a slave mentality of accepting less money just because your bosses say so.

    If I’m worth 2 million, you ain’t paying me one. 1 million’s a lot of money, but 2 million is double that.

  • Brahsef

    And I don’t understand why “fans” get mad that there’s not a season. I mean I’ll miss the NBA season, but I’ll get over it. This is these people’s financial security. For us, it’s just entertainment.

    Lord knows I’ll be back to watching it whenever it comes out.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Jahmai

    Financial securty? Wow. Do you even realize how much these guys get paid, even guys like Scalabrine make more money a year than most people, the veteran min. is more that what most people make a year. Yes, the owners are greedy, but they were 20% apart, now it’s done to 1%, you’re going to cancel a season for that? (since, they agreed on most system issues)

  • Stan the Boy Taylor

    ^ Not a real fan.

  • http://wikipedia.org Eddie1

    Players won’t take it. Trust me I’m from the future. Illuminati talk.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    I think people fail to understand the huge difference between being a millionaire and being a billionaire.

  • mytiman

    ACCEPT THE GODDAMN OFFER

  • http://www.twitter.com/gerardhimself Gerard Himself

    if the players could vote, I think over 50% would say yes to this deal. But that won’t happen, so today we can say that there won’t be a season. As a ‘die hard’ fan, it makes me sad.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    The union is already talking about not presenting the offer to the players for a vote. Sounds like a stupid idea to me, why not allow the players to view the offer and make a decision for themselves instead of “protecting” them from a bad-deal (Fisher’s words). The Union made it seem like the players are too dumb to know what’s good or bad for them.

  • short

    Screw the owners greedy pigs they made the bad deal in the first place leave it!

  • anthony y

    From my understanding most of the system issues went the owners way. The players have already dropped down from 57% to 52% and given what a percentage point is worth, that’s a lot of money back in the owners pockets. Now the owners are at a point where their gonna start losing money so they want to strong arm the union into a bad deal. DON’T TAKE THE DEAL!!!! do these guys make an enormous amount of money? of course, but we are the reason for it. We buy the tickets or league pass. We but the shoes, jerseys, hats all that stuff and I don’t recall ever seeing a jerry buss jersey! The players make the league, and as such they should be paid what their worth. Not short changed because an owner doesn’t know how to run an NBA team and needs more money to trick off.

  • rob stewart

    Let them vote, isn’t it there right?

  • http://www.slamonline.com Nick Tha Quick

    Anyone read about the backlash on MJ for being one of the hardline owners seeking 47%. His famous comment to Abe Pollin, “If you can’t make a profit, then maybe you should sell your team.” Nick Young says he won’t wear his J’s no more. It’s hypocritical but who expected MJ to not be about his money?

  • bernie

    I really miss NBA already… But the owners do not offer anything. Tell me one thing that they offered?

    It’s just take what we give or leave it… Everyone of us would not accept and search for the next job.
    But here is the problem… NBA players cannot earn the same amount of money somewhere else (except some all stars).

    Next time there is a lockout the player either should have an alternative or just accept everything they get offered.

    Sometimes I cannot understand why some here say the players are guilty for this mess…

  • http://slamonline.com The Philosopher

    Jordan can’t go against the grain now. He is in a whole another arena. He is now swimming with fish that are bigger than him, now.

  • http://djfklsfl.com Jukai

    Jahmai: They were 20% apart and the players gave 15%…
    Not to mention, look at it logically… The players have given enough for the owners to begin to make a profit. THE OWNERS WANT MORE! How insane is that?

  • respect

    when mj was a player he cared more about the players now hes a owner nd he cares more about the owners, cant hate on that hes doin whats best for HIM

  • O

    As a fan, i’d want them to accept the offer and start the goddamn season. But the truth is that the owners are COMING OFF. I hope the players go with the nuclear option just to stick it to these GREEDY ass billionaire owners!

  • Yep

    @JTaylor: the difference between millionaires and billionaires is three 0s. thanks for coming out.

    @anthony y: what do the owners offer? they offer the NBA. the NBA doesn’t exist without owners. you think some ignorant, unintelligent hoodrat who doesn’t graduate high school but is exceptional at tossing a ball through a hoop “DESERVES” x amount of money? they are lucky to be born with a gift that, through the brand power of marketing and corporate america, will land them millions of dollars. for what it’s worth basketball could have easily fallen by the wayside at any point throughout its history and a sport like soccer, adorned worldwide as the most popular sport, could be in its place. wah wah wah, players whining is so played. if indeed a 50/50 split is on the table, take it. players only do half the work after all (before you argue think of the number of players employed by the league/arenas and think about the rest of the people who work to make the NBA happen. not even REMOTELY close).

  • http://slamonline.com The Philosopher

    Besides, players today aren’t even worth it. Maybe Jordan has that idea in his mind.
    Guys in his day were worth more than what many of the guys are worth today.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    The Philosopher, you’re just talking nonsense now. Where’s the evidence or figures to back up your “players in the past were worth more” line? So Magic was more valuable to the Lakers than Kobe is today? Bird was more valuable to the Celtics than Bron was to the Cavs? Everyone knows that star players are underpaid in terms of the amount of revenue and exposure they bring to a franchise.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    “unintelligent hoodrat”, really? It’s good to see that some of the racist clowns on ESPN have migrated onto Slam’s site.

  • EtheKnickFan

    Hope everyone who feels players don’t deserve anything cause they are all “hoodrats that toss a ball through a hoop” feel the same way when(and or if)the season starts and prices are raised to recoup lost revenue for the late start. If you think a player isnt worth the money to play do you think they are worth the money the owners are going to charge for you to watch? What if your boss says “I have to let you go because I found an illegal to do your job for half the price.” Would you say “its ok I was getting paid to much anyway”? If you make 45,000 a year now,can you really make it with 20,000 next year? You may but would you WANT to?

  • EtheKnickFan

    Basically what MJ said is correct. If your team makes no profit it aint the players fault. Your uppermanagement suckkkkkkks.

  • EtheKnickFan

    Back when NBA was young, ABA was what was up. Owners give the players NBA? Try having a league w/o players. Shut NBA down, start a new league with the billionaires that want it and those that couldnt get teams before. Darth Stern needs his deathstar blown up.

  • Jeremy(Georgia Boy)

    smh reading @yep shows you how ignorant America still is in 2011

    If you want to be racist do it Face to Face NOT online where you safe and sound

    You don’t have the balls to say that in person tho

  • http://slamonline.com The Philosopher

    JTaylor21:
    Who would get the hundred million dollar contract first, in your judgement, David Robinson, or Eddy Curry?
    Gilbert Arenas, or Clyde Drexler?
    That’s what I’m saying.

  • EJ

    This sucks, but just accept it or go play overseas. I don’t really care how much money the players or the owners make cause I’m not getting any of it anyway, so just play somewhere please.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Philo, I thought we were talking strictly star players not role players. I do agree with you that role players are being paid too much money but whose fault is that?

  • IAMORANGE4EVER

    Underperforming markets in the NBA want to drive the NBA off a cliff. LOL, cut them loose! See how they like not being part of the NBA anymore.

  • Zabbah

    Those role players were getting $100 mil contracts, JTaylor.

  • robb

    it doesn’t matter who’s fault it is, they have to resolve the problem now, and the players are running out of options, the owners got them by the balls, it’s not about getting the best deal for the players anymore, right now they have to look for the least detrimental deal for them.

  • http://slamonline.com The Philosopher

    JT21:
    Even the star players.
    Is Amare Stoudemire worth more money than a Karl Malone? How about Barkley? McHale?
    I know that there are so many factors that play into everything, i.e., inflation, growth of the NBA’s mass consumption/financial income, etc.
    But, even if one were to do calculations with inflation and other factors being variables to conclusion,(s) those players in Michael’s day were still getting paid less than what some of these players are getting paid. Players who were better than today’s players.
    I can see why Michael Jordan is in the position he is in. Paying a bench player more than what one of his best players in his playing career made for his entire career.
    When some “superstar” from today retires, and may become an owner, he may have the same position Michael has, pending a future lockout.
    But at the same time, I can see the players, too.
    Like for real, it is what it is, and the owners are…

  • anthony y

    @yep, your whole comment was ignorant and a moot point. First off to classify all ball players as “ignorant hoodrats who should feel lucky to have a gift” let’s me know you have a bigger issues other than the lockout and this isn’t the forum for all that. Secondly, you can find owners faster than you’ll find players of their caliber. Had the players done their homework two, three years ago they could have found sponsorship, advertising and ownership to start another league. Third, let’s be honest, if it wasn’t for the players in the league all the people you talk about who do all the “real” work would be applying to work at Microsoft cause they wouldn’t have a job! People have been layed off from teams due to the fact the players are not working. Finally, I never said they deserved to make the amount of money they do. I said based on the money generated based on what we spend they should fight to keep their money. You wouldn’t let your boss come in and just take money out of your check for no reason other than he made poor decisions? Than again based on your comments you might.

  • CARTEL

    I don’t even care anymore…This is actually gonna get me to pay closer attention to college ball again…

  • http://nbasobrietystrike.blogspot.com/ CoolWhip

    Looks like it’s time for me to find a girlfriend. This season is as good as cancelled :(

  • LA Huey

    I don’t get mad at the actors, writers, and other staff when my favorite TV shows get delayed or canceled because they can’t agree on their pay and benefits. Like a healthy person, I have other vices I can turn to in my life. When the NBA gets back up and running, I’ll watch it again.

  • Heals

    amen anthony y, 2 time and I hear you on that one ORANGE. No season means time for girlfriend(s) Coolwhip, during the season is when you cut back…

  • http://itsahardwoodlife.blogspot.com omphalos

    Just take the deal players… just take it.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    This will be the smallest amount of money in relation to revenue that the players have received in the History of collective bargaining in the NBA. Players get paid more now because the league is bigger that is it. Their % is already less then it was in the 90′s.

  • Mburb321

    Stern needs to learn that his strong arming approach is only making the players more united. Players probably would of been more willing to accept 50/50 had he not come out and said take it “or else” its 47%. Emotions are running high and everyone is prideful. When someone feels like youre embarrassing them in defeat theyre going to put all rationality aside and react with emotions. Players that truly would of pushed Fish to accept 50/50 because they cant afford to keep missing checks will probably now say “screw you stern” just because they feel slighted. As commissionaire he should of just allowed the players to think about the offer rather than the ultimatum.

  • http://itsahardwoodlife.blogspot.com omphalos

    nbk makes a good point, the actual % is somewhat irrelevant when you consider they are still making considerably more than players have in the 90s because even though it’s a smaller slice of the pie, the pie has grown a whole lot.

  • DRU

    I’ll never understand why the poor man always cries. “Do you know how much money these guys make”? blah blah blah… cry me a river. To you, they are just playing basketball, but you ignore the fact that it’s PROFESSIONAL basketball. Their talents enable the owners to have billionaire dollar business. Thus, in return, they are paid accordingly. It’s not really that hard to comprehend once you drop the jealously.

  • http://itsahardwoodlife.blogspot.com omphalos

    False, their talents allow the owners to have a billion dollar hobby. Not a single one of these owners is relying on their franchise for their fortune and they could all just as easily go without owning a franchise. The same can’t be said for the players.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Spit hot fiyah
    The league knows how much each.player makes. They take 8 percent of the players’ salaries and put it n escrow. At the end of the year they look at salaries paid and BRI revenue and see if it meets the percentage.
    if it is too high the players lose the money in escrow. If it is too low the the players get that money and any other monies owed them.
    Not sure what happens if it is just right.
    Stern knows that if this number floats around for three days the players will be pressured to cave. And if they vote the players will accept it.
    I am going to watch when they start playing but this situation has left a bad taste in my mouth for real. Both from the reaction from the media and many fans . It is disheartening. I see more clearly why this country is an oligarchy and how that is maintained.

  • Bill Smith

    I am scared to death they will start playing. I hate Lebron, and want to see him go another year ringless. How much basketball can you watch anyway? It’s boring. Get a life.

  • http://www.slamonline.com spit hot fiyah

    ^thanks for explaining

  • Nguyen-Luan

    Agree with allowing players look at the deal and vote on it. Metaphorically speaking, right now the basketball is player union’s hands.

  • BBaller

    Gotta SMH, i just read a report that Jamaal Tinsley got drafted #1 in the D-League, not for that but because over an 8 year career in the NBA he made $40 million, C’mon a decent player at best!More money than anyone could dream of. I would never consider him a top anything, ever but he’s made that much money from Basketball!!!!! Theses players are paid well and obviously really well looked after so just sign the damn offer! Even at 30% of BRI they could still own 4 houses and drive luxury cars!Greed from both sides but players consider the alternative….would you like fries with that?

  • BBaller

    If the minimum wage for an NBA player who would i guess put in a lot of hard work( equivalent to a degree) didn’t pay more than a lifestyle of luxury than i would be way more sympathetic to their cause. The owners are billionaires and always will be but the players need to be realistic, once drafted it’s no more struggle street only VIP treatment for life, if they are smart enough. $40 million damn, i could invest that so my kids and their kids would never have to work again.

  • Justin

    So “just” find owners, sponsors, and advertisers and get a league going just like that huh? lol First of all, you’re not going to get any network deals outside of maybe NBC (they did take a chance on the XFL afterall). Sponsors, advertisers, etc. may not want to go against the NBA. Which arenas are these players supposed to play in because I’m pretty sure they can’t just take over the ones they’re in now, especially when some NBA owners own their arenas. Any new league you try to start is going to pay SUBSTANTIALLY less than the NBA and if the players are willing to do that, why wouldn’t they just sign the deal and play in the NBA in the first place? As far as the owners being at fault for the contracts, which owners are we talking about here? Some of these low to middle market teams are paying big bucks for decent but not star players because they know if they don’t, the big market teams that don’t mind paying the luxury tax will. Then they’ll have nothing…AGAIN.

  • http://sheridanhoops.com/2011/11/06/tweet-of-the-day-nazr-mohammed/ IAMORANGE4EVER

    @NAZRMOHMMED IS SPEAKING THE TRUTH FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO HEAR IT (OR JUST TAKE THE BLUE PILL THE NBA PR MACHINE IS TRYING TO GET YOU TO SWALLOW, LOL): I get it now…it’s time 2 punish the teams with money, who prospered under last CBA, or has a following outside of their state. #BigMarkets. A Luxury Tax and teams that pay it can’t bid on the services of free agents…Sounds like a hard cap to me. #NBALockout. I’m cool with whatever is best for our union but I hope it’s understood that we’re being offered a deal where the top teams won’t be able to bid for ur services when u become a FA. Teams known for spending money hands will be tied and u will be forced to either re-sign w/ ur current team or take a lot less on the open market. But there will be no open market bcuz teams like the Lakers, Miami, NY, Boston, etc couldnt even be part of the FA process. Everyone knows that ur value is set by the available teams wanting to bid for ur services…If there aren’t any teams who can spend then u don’t have any negotiating power. So players will have to decide between the mid-level, bi-annual exception, their veterans minimum or take whatever ur current team offers. If ur cool w/ that then this is the deal for u. SMH. By the way…no sign and trades for tax paying teams too. Free agency will never be the same. #DecisionTime. I really can’t believe that all the owners are on board with this. This deal ties the hands of teams in large markets that paid luxury tax. A team that’s paying the luxury tax cant go out & compete in free agency. They wont b able 2 keep a championship team 2gether n Dallas’ case. about 22 hours ago via Twitter

  • deez2121

    I have no idea why people take the players side on this. I work for a union so I understand the contract negotiations however the players employer is really not competing for competitive wages here because they’re already outrageous. If they weren’t a lot more players would playing overseas. Most of the owners are losing or lost money Paul Allen has lost 1 billion so far in owning the blazers. So the union reps need to buck up quit whining about the “billionaires” and hiding behind the fans and let the players vote. I stand 100% behind the owners and wouldn’t care if they locked the players out for 2 to 3 years if it ment a max contract would top out at 4 to 5 million a year!

  • http://www.slamonline.com Max

    F Stern and those damn owners.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Oligarchy. And people like it that way.
    It is amazing how many people think the owners are entitled to make money but think the players are lucky to get what they get.
    That is amazing to me.

  • Riggs

    He has no idea why people take the players side on this and he works for a union? I think it’s time you quit for the benefit of everyone else you work with if you don’t understand why the players deserve support. jesus christ.

  • Greg

    NBA players should present a Counter proposal if they are not satisfied with Mr Stern’s proposal last Sat. Its actually a 50/50 revenue sharing not a 51/49 sharing, as the one percent goes to retired NBA players and not to the active NBA players.

  • lovabull

    I play basketball for free.

  • deez2121

    Riggs…I’m sorry. You’re right because I work for the unio. n and 100% support my co-workers who make 50,000 a year I too should support the nba players who make an average of 5,000,000 a year. Because I’m sure these guys understand what the union is all about right the history of it and how it got started? Because the union was started to protect millionaires right riggs? I mean that’s why you see the union in law firms and other multi billionaire corporation that require you wear a suit and tie right Riggs?
    Jesus Christ get a clue

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    LOL
    Unions were started because without unions people who work get shafted by unscrupulous owners.
    That’s it.
    At one point, the autoworkers union, a blue collar union, was making the equivalent of $70 per hour when you factor in their salaries and benefits.
    Many journalists belong to unions at their jobs, and most journalists are required to wear ties to work. At least the ones who don’t cover sports.
    Unions were an outgrowth of the understanding that it’s far easier to get a fair deal if you bargain collectively. It doesn’t matter how much money you make, if your boss controls the moneymaking apparatus, they have the power to impose their will upon you.
    Basically, lots of people are jealous. And it’s crazy that someone in a union would think that way. Because there are millions of Americans who see your collectively bargained wages and benefits and think you need to just take one for the team so they can have cheaper prices for their goods, or so their lives won’t be inconvenienced when you go on strike or have a labor dispute.
    The same way they felt about those state employees in Wisconsin, and the air traffic controllers in the 1980s and the transit workers in New York. All of them tried fighting for their rights with a union, and ultimately it was their fellow American workers who turned on them and wanted them to take a worse deal so they could get back to work.
    You support the system and then wonder why the system shafts you. That’s insane.

  • deez2121

    AllenP the owners are entitled to make money because if they don’t then there is no NBA and it’s there business.They have a right. What amazes me is that players complain about how much they make. It’s very simple. You don’t like how much we pay you go play somewhere else overseas or in another league that satisfys you. Good luck with that.

  • MaxIsNative

    I’m all for the owners, for, Greed is also my favorite sin. But truthfully I could give a f*** about these arguments, I just want to see Timmy D’s bank shot to start off a game, or, well, almost anything, that doesn’t represent the players union getting man handled by the professional businessmen. I can’t wait tell they accept some sort of deal, I really don’t care the terms, because in all honesty, everyone who is involved in this situation is going to get paid. The stars, the roles, the bench, are all going to get more then enough. Lets just cut the Owners a break, just because they shower in the tears of the needy, which I hear is great for the skin, doesn’t make them less human. It just gives them the idea that they somehow own a workers right to earn more money.

  • deez2121

    Don’t forget AllenP actors work for a union to and some of them wair ties and I’m sure all the union workers around America supported them too. I know how the union works no need to explain I just don’t think the NBA players do and I don’t think anyone’s jealous here just tired of hearing complaining and crying from the unions players publicly over a lot of money when fans are losing jobs,houses,vehicles and struggling to put food on the table. The owners have a right to run thier business the way they want to if the union doesn’t like it then shut up and find a new job. Put that free education you got to use.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Sorry, but I gotta do this.
    THE PLAYERS TAKING LESS MONEY WILL NOT SAVE YOUR HOME, CAR OR JOB. IT WILL NOT PUT MORE MONEY IN YOUR POCKET. IN FACT, ALL IT WILL DO IS PROVIDE YOU WITH A DISTRACTION SO THOSE IN POWER CAN CONTINUE TO TAKE AWAY THE FEW LITTLE GOODS THEY’VE ALLOWED YOU TO HAVE TO KEEP YOU COMPLACENT. THAT IS ALL.
    NBA players make lost of money. And? Why do I care? The League as a whole made $4.3 billion. Why shouldn’t hte players, who have are more impact on the creation of those revenues than the owners not fight for a healthy share of that revenue.
    They have offered to take 52.5 percent of BRI revenues and made concessions on luxury tax, exemptions and several other issues.
    With the deal the players have agreed to, the owners would stand to receive something in the neighborhood of $2.3 billion dollars total. That includes their share of the BRI and the $500 million they keep out of the BRI for “expenses.” They would make right about $300 million MORE than the players under the deal the players have supported, cmpared to making like $20 million less under the current deal. That’s a $320 million turnaround!
    And people are still telling the players to shut up and take less.
    Quite simply, people like getting f*cked and they want everybody else to get f*cked.
    I don’t like the power dynamic at my job and at most jobs, and I”m glad when other people are able to flip that dynamic.

  • bike

    Assuming the season is gone, there is a silver lining possibly waiting down the road in all this. Despite what many believe, history demonstrates that the impact on local economies from sports work stoppages is minimal. People find other things to do and reductions in public spending offset losses in private spending. Let the players decertify, let’s crap-can the season, and after all the dust settles, maybe we will see just what the actual NBA’s worth really is. Maybe the owners and players will come to the realization after all is said and done, that in the big scheme of things, they never were all that important to begin with.

  • deez2121

    shut up AND TAKE LESS!!!! ………otherwise I’m taking my ball and going home.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    If the players hold-out for the whole season they are going to get even more taken advantage of. I think that is the aspect in all of this that is being left out. The NHL situation is exactly what the NBA wants. And they are going the NHL route to make it happen.

  • bull22

    @allenp, i find it very amusing how you have all the time in world to write your books and even one clown said you have more insight then 99 percent of the media.. yet if any of us go to espn,yahoo,si,fox or cbs sports your expertise is no where in sight, LOL! try working on keeping your comments short bro because the only ones reading them are the nerds that know you..
    if the nba has invaded your time this badly, take a break man. you really need it..

  • Riggs

    You keep talking about their salaries as if that makes a difference in what a union represents (and since you supposedly work for one it makes you look like even more of a dumb*ss). The NBAPA is a labor union, thus being created solely for the purpose of having an entity that can negotiate the CBA, salaries, etc. If this was happening to any other industry where the workers were getting paid by the thousands, people would be outraged. But since it’s a couple of guys who plays a “kid’s game” then it’s all good, they make millions right? Like i said before, since you supposedly work for a union, you should be on their side regardless of their damn salary its the freaking principle. The reason why unions were created in the first place.

  • Riggs

    @bull22: you’re an idiot. it may take you 2 hours to write a paragraph but most of us including allen can type fast.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Bull22, keep getting your “insights” at ESPN, Yahoo, SI, Fox & CBS – it has obviously made you a genius to this point. If you could, start commenting there too.

  • anthony y

    Amen@ allenp.
    Bike makes a very good point. The value of the league has already gone down. I think soccer is ranked higher right now! Lol..
    @deez, do you really want to put actors in this? Those guys make 20 million a pic plus box office. And they dress horribly. $1000 for ripped jeans? Really?
    @Justin, yes find advertising, sponsors and owners. You guys like to think the NBA generates revenue on its own. It doesn’t. The players bring that so if your biggest names( lebron by himself generates over $200 mil in advertising alone!) It’s business and the league is not the mob, you won’t be wacked for going against them. Which is why if the had done the work years ago they could have had a model for a new league. Would you take less money in the beginning for your own business and make it back later or would you rather stay working for the people who took money you worked hard for?

  • anthony y

    They cut part of my last comment off. I was saying after the lebron part that plenty of businesses would jump at the chance to get in on a new league started by the biggest players in the league. The owners in the league now are not the only ones in the world! People need to stop acting like these guys should not ask for a nice sized piece of a 4.3 bil dollar pie. Maybe we should quot being so quick to just take whatever our jobs offer us..

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    There are no arenas to start a new league. It isn’t even an option.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Bull22
    I cover crime. I decided a long time ago that I didn’t want to have a job as a daily sportswriter because all daily sports writers seemed to eventually hate sports and hate the people they covered.
    The last time I seriously considered a sports job was when I got the chance to cover the Minnesota mens basketball team back in like 2003 0or 2004 when I worked at the St. Paul Pioneer Press.
    But, if you don’t like what I say, you should just skip over my comments. It’s really easy.

  • Jimmy

    I don’t have a horse in the race but it would appear to me that both sides are expressing their greed to an extreme. The difference is that the owners (most members of the billionaire boys club) actually have skin in the game (read that invested capital – real money if you will) while the players have sweat equity at stake.

    Anybody who has had any experience in business knows without a doubt that money controls the deal. The Golden Rule of Business is he who has the gold rules! You may not like it but this is the way business works.

    So here are a bunch of very well paid workers, ready to blow off what for many of them will be 10 – 15 – 20 -25% of their lifetime earnings potential to make a point. Would somebody remind me what that point is please?

    A much saner approach for the players and owners would be to aggree on a 1 year deal, play basketball, cash checks and continue to negotiate for the future. Where are the voices of reason in this whole thing?

    100% of nothing is . . . well nothing! Both parties should come away with something while at the same time allowing the customers (fans) to be served and the discussions to continue.

    Someone in the union should introduce the players to the thousands, maybe millions, of unemployed apparel, textile, steel and auto workers who couldn’t bring themselves to keep talking.

    Golden gooses are not immortal.

  • deez2121

    Haha geez I’m sorry I thought it was the salaries that they were caught up on. Yeah I’m way off base riggs and I’m spent. oh and thanks again for explaining to me and other people what we already know.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Jimmy
    That is a good idea.
    I don’t think the owners want a deal.
    Allowing the players to earn more money, even if it’s for a year, means they won’t be as desperate when it’s time to negotiate.
    I don’t consider either side “greedy.”
    They are making a lot of money. They each want that money. My problem is with what I believe are falsehoods on the owners part, and their attempts to “guarantee” profit. I see it in too many other fields. Guaranteed profits, regardless of mismanagement, means that workers get shafted.

  • PaulT

    @Allenp: I support your comments but don’t know if it’s that “people like getting f*cked and they want everybody else to get f*cked.” Rather, I wonder if it’s just easier to try and pull people down to a lower level than to try and think of ways to bring everyone up, particularly in an environment in which indiviudualism is seen as the only worthwhile/ethical/moral/proper driving force and is (problematically) understood only in oppostion to more collective approaches.

  • deez2121

    Anthony y it was meant to come across as sarcasm. Allenp had mentioned union workers which I support. I just reminded him actors were part of the union who I don’t support but assume that he and riggs do. Well said by the way PAUL.

  • Jimmy

    If the worker bees evaluate their status as a comparable to the owners they will never get there. The owners are owners because they control the game through their capital investments, or lack thereof. Truths, lies, whatever, the players have the weak position and it only gets weaker as the calendar goes forward and another class of NBA wannabees shows up on the scene. One of the reasons I don’t have a horse in the race so to speak is because today’s players have allowed the money to spoil the game. How many examples are there of Latrell Sprewell’s not able to “feed their families” on $21M contracts? The idea that you can transform this thinking into a team is hard to fathom. The best you can do is manage a bunch of mega personalities and hope for the best. In college ball with a one and done tournament you can get motivated to rise to the occasion whereas in these y’all come, 7 game play offs there are no upsets. So let them sit on their collective asses. Twitter to each other. The true fans will still be served by the college game and the NBA brand will be diminished, as it should be. Stern knows this and anybody who studied a little bit of business in college would know it as well.
    I play pick up ball with a great group of guys. Even the hard core street players admit that “the money has screwed up the game.” To borrow from Steve Covey these clowns are negotiating a classic – lose/lose position!

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    The owners want the players to be frustrated. If they wanted to negotiate while the players were making money then they would have negotiated last year, and the year before that, and the year before that. We have known the lockout was inevitable for at least 2 years, without a doubt in our minds we thought there would be a lockout, infact, the PA even told its players to prepare for a lockout, and (i don’t remember which) a member of the Owners group, maybe David Stern not so sure, even said there would be a lockout to the PA. The idea of agreeing to a 1-year deal isn’t realistic

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Paul T
    You said that well. I agree.
    But, I can only surmise that people enjoy what’s happening to them because they are finding ways to justify why it’s happening, and they want it to happen to other people.
    If I’m in a bad situation, I don’t want other people to suffer with me. Why? That doesn’t improve my situation at all, it just gives more power to the folks causing the problems.
    I like unions. I like people to have good salaries and good benefits. I like them to be comfortable. I’m not bothered by them making lots of money as long as they do it honestly and without causing undue pain on others.
    And that’s for everyone. I don’t dislike rich people because they are rich. I only have a problem if they are seeking to keep other folks poor and suffering. That’s it.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Jimmy
    I think everybody knows that it’s a losing situation for players.
    But, this attempt to glorify the college game, where everybody plays for love, is idiotic.
    No, college players play to keep their scholarships, and with the hope of making the NBA
    Way too many college players believe they have a shot to go pro. Players who have NO shot whatsoever. And they play grueling schedules for no pay, on annual contracts that can be terminated with no advance warning or even reasoning.
    It’s the NFL without money. And it applies to all college athletes.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Way to many college players believe they have a shot to go pro….in america. If you are good enough to play D-1 ball, your good enough to play in Europe (for the most part) – you will likely play for crap money, in a crap city, and will have no job security whatsoever. But most those guys can play professionally if they are willing to cross the Atlantic.

  • Megen Elise

    I can solve this revenue split thing right now.
    Let the current players keep the 53%. There is going to be a draft every year so sign the rookies in at the 50/50 agreement. They’r not gonna be crying over that. They just want to play in the NBA. Now everyone is happy. The current players can get back to business and within the next couple years the owners will make the money they are looking for. Simple and Done.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Man, there are not enough European jobs for all the college players out there.
    And it’s crazy that even players at small schools think they have an outside shot. I went to Howard University and there wre cats there that were planning on going pro. Now, some of the football players made it, but it was like one or two. The rest of them were stuck with crappy majors and low credits.
    And that’s how schools like it. Well except for a few exceptions.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    I have a buddy that played on my high school team who played D-1 ball in Canada. He received offers in Europe – some fell through, some he felt weren’t worth taking. Another guy I played ball with in a men’s league, he played at a community college, he just went overseas 2 weeks ago to play. There are so many small “pro” teams/leagues in Europe. They play in “arenas” that are about the size of a 1,500 person High School Gymnasium. The option for any america D-1 basketball player to play overseas are pretty much open like I said. But you will be playing for the love of the game, not money or fame or anything like that. Basically your making a little more than a bank teller in the US but you get to play basketball instead of sit at a computer.

  • Jimmy

    I guess I am showing my age but everone used to play for the love of the game and the money, what little there was, was just a plus. One of my good friends was a D-II all star. At 6′ 11″ he could run like and antelope and had great court presence. He was drafted by the Lakers right about the time that Magic had joined Kareem on the team. He ended up playing about 12 years in Europe. Did fine but never got the big contract that sets you up for life. We talk a lot about where professional sports is today. The NBA is a very elite neighborhood. You not only have to be good but you have to be on the right team to maximize your particular skills. I just don’t agree with the lose/lose mentality I see from the players side. I’m not a fan of the owners but you have to be realistic about how the greater game of business is played. NBA basketball is easily replacable with lots of other things. As for the college experience. It sure beat going to classes. That alone was worth the effort IMHO!

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Jimmy
    I think people expect players to be professionals, but still play for the love of the game.
    See, it doesn’t work that way. Professionals go to work whether they “feel” like it or not. And they do their jobs.
    If they were just playing for love, don’t you think there would be times they’d rather stay home and hang with their families. Or just rest? Or do something they find more interesting than basketball?
    Nobody, no matter how much you love something, always wants to do it. I doubt NBA players always want to play basketball when a game is scheduled. But, that’s their jobs. They are paid very well to do it, so they do it.
    It’s a business and a game. You can’t separate the two for the players, or for the owners. Or the sportswriters, or general managers or anybody else whose livelihood is based on professional sports. It’s a business a game for everyone. Not just for they players.
    And, the vast majority of cats I know wanted to play because they liked sports and because they wanted to get paid. And from what I’ve read, it’s always been like that.

  • vtrobot

    with the damage that they’re doing to their product right now, the owners are probably going to lose more than the remaining amount that they’re still arguing over. especially if they cancel an entire season (which they won’t do any time soon). bruins/isles tonight!

  • http://myspace.com/gametimeweezy Gametimeweezy

    cosign Allenp at 8:58am

  • Jimmy

    The owners will get tax deductions for their losses. NOL’s are considered assets on a go forward basis as they reduce future tax payments. In reality all tax payers get to share in a piece of their losses! The players – they get to reduce the size of their posse which means someone else becomes unemployed because of their lose/lose position. I think they call that trickle down economics!

  • http://slamonline ottoman

    You owners need to take it to another level. Star players 1 million a great living the average player 500,000 you bench warmers 200,000. Still a great living. Your still living in the best neighborhoods. Some of you are not driving Bentley’s but still any car you want. Bentley’s are made for the ultra rich not just the rich. Plus remember tiding to your maker the Lord of Lord’s. If your making 25,000,000 that’s minimum 2,500,000 plus Charity if you want to look good in the eyes of the Lord.
    Give them the offer and stand by it. Don’t back down. Let’s look back at Latrell Sprewell I can’t feed my family on 10 million. What? We could feed a whole country. Owners stop the insanity stop buying these players you are to blame for this fix it. I’m tired of paying $7.50 for a draft beer 12oz.I wish I had a million. ottoman

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    You really think you’ll pay less if the owners get a better deal?
    Because tickets and concessions are so affordable at NFL and NHL games.
    Hilarious.

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