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Wednesday, May 20th, 2009 at 9:00 am  |  310 responses

Jerry West: ‘LeBron Has Surpassed Kobe’

by Marcel Mutoni

Of all the legends in NBA history, Jerry West is probably Kobe Bryant’s favorite. After all, Mr. Clutch is the one who shrewdly worked out a trade to bring Bryant to L.A. when KB was a teenager, and the man provided counsel through Kobe’s most tumultuous times in the League.

Jerry West, who for years has called Kobe Bryant the League’s greatest player, has a new favorite these days. It’s some guy from Ohio.

Reuters reports:

“If I had to have somebody make a last-second shot, it would be Kobe Bryant,” said West, architect of the great Lakers teams from Magic Johnson years in the 1980s through the Shaquille O’Neal clubs of the early 2000s.

“But even though it’s hard for me to be objective, because I brought Kobe to Los Angeles, I do think LeBron has surpassed Kobe as a player.”

Jerry’s assessment of the two superstars was brought up during the postgame chat with reporters following the Lakers’ Game 1 win over Denver, and Kobe said it didn’t bother him one bit. Absolutely no one believed him, nor should they.

I’m guessing that Jerry probably shouldn’t expect a Christmas card from the Bryant family this year.

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  • justin

    jerry wrong kobe way better than lebron exspecially in the clutch situations

  • chazz michael michaels

    kobe made love to his dog and it died of internal bleeding…

  • Michael

    honestly, do we have to go through this again??
    just to sum up though, based on the totality of career achievements, kobe > lebron. based on who is right now better at playing basketball, its lebron.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    ASK JERRY WHOSE BETTER, JORDAN OR KOBE AT HIS HEIGHT OR LEBRON NOW!!!!

  • http://www.mynameinorange.blogspot.com Hisham

    whose better? my better

  • Babygab

    The finals are just a couple weeks away. Everyone will then be abble to put an end to the debate once and for all !!!

  • http://www.mynameinorange.blogspot.com Hisham

    when the finals are over, and lebron holds the larry obrien in one hand, and the finals mvp in the other, people here will argue how it’s not fair because Kobe has a dislocated finger

  • truthteller

    Hisham,
    And when the finals are over and Kobe holds the Obrien in one hand and the finals MVP in the other, people here will argue how it’s not fair because Kobe had a better team than Lebron.

  • http://www.mynameinorange.blogspot.com Hisham

    haha, good comeback. True, too. Although I won’t be one of those people, because I don’t think Kobe’s team is that much better. And if the Lakers win, I’ll probably still think Lebron is better.

  • el-bot

    does anyone else think West is just motivating Kobe?

  • http://slamonline.com/online/category/blogs/fear/ Freedom Fries

    >> motivating << exactly – come on peoples. You know it. Between the Zen-master’s mind games and this west guy, it must be a veritable barrel of laughs to play in LA

  • Beastley

    Isn’t it ironic that Kobe has had such a hard time escaping MJ’s shadow, and now that this part of his career seems finally over, he has to endure yet another humiliating domination from an otherworldly talent? From MJ to LBJ, really.

    It’s as if he was some sort of cursed basketball god, never able to retain that n°1 spot, never able to be adored by the masses as he should be.

    Perhaps only one ce he retires will the whole world grant KB the love he deserves as a player.

    Or perhaps that comment by West is just meant to give KB some spark, as he does seem to become less dominating out there.

  • Benoit Benjamin

    Pavlovic is better than Vujacic.

  • Fat Lever

    Maybe West said this cause he knows this will drive Kobe to finally win a chip as the leader. If anything Kobe should send West a christmas card if they do win.

  • http://slamonline.com/online/category/blogs/fear/ Freedom Fries

    “I love you, you suck. I hate you, now go win a chip. You’re the greatest, you’re not snit” Managerial motivation 101 – for a-holes

  • DFigs

    Wally Szczerbiak versus Luke Walton for the heavyweight title.

  • http://slamonline.com Spaceship Jay

    Lol at Freedom Fries. Perhaps West has surpassed his age of logic reason. It’s neither easy nor fair to compare them to me. They play different positons, have different teams, and different styles of play.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    OBVIOUSLY

  • http://slamonline.com Ben Osborne

    Damn; woulda’ liked to have this quote in our new issue.

  • http://www.mynameinorange.blogspot.com Hisham

    I think West means that LeBron has transcended Kobe in transcendence. Not in a sense of quality or skill, but how much he does for his team and the NBA. But that’s just an assumption. Of course there’s a reason that ‘assumption’ has the word ‘ass’ in it. Because assumptions are generally not the most intelligent part of an argument.

  • http://www.LACLIPS.com nate the great

    yeah, we all kno lebron would beat kobe 1v1. its unfair height advantage.
    but the nba is not a one on one. its 5-5. and kobe is deadly leading that triangle offence.
    its a tricky game. but you cant fairly judge the two.
    but Kobe does have rings.

  • Aaron

    lol, who cares about lebron and kobe we all know that MJ is and always will be the best !!!

  • mj23

    And pretty soon he will surpass MJ, as long as he doesn’t spend his summers in Colorado. He was just sick against the ATL Hawks.

  • mj23

    Lebron is better than Jordan was at age 24. He will only get better, and who knows how many championships he’ll end up winning.

  • http://allanzuss@yahoo.com Mendel

    I think West is motivating Kobe. And the Kobe Doin film work sucked. Boring.

  • mj23

    The Kobe movie was too scripted, and Kobe wasn’t acting very natural. Even his laugh seemed like it was forced.

  • mj23

    Jordan in his prime couldn’t have guarded Lebron one on one. Lebron is just too big and explosive. He’s got the body of Karl Malone, and the quickness of AI.

  • Kas

    hahaha. Jordan was, unlike lebron, also a great defender. jordan= best kobe=better than lebron now, ever. lebron=extremely good

  • jerry west

    Jerry West is a jerk. Mr. Logo or not.

  • Cizzo

    You can have the most ability “Lebron” you can can have the best team “Kobe” but when it’s all said and done the team playing the best basketball will win it! 50+ in a loosing effort is still a loss. Win 1 first.

  • AlbertBarr

    I beleive he did say that “Kobe is the more skilled player but in basketball, size matters” Basically West was saying that although Kobe is the more skilled player, LeBrons size and speed and strength help him dominate easier thus making him the “best” player. Although I’m sure Kobe would try if he could…he can not make himself taller and bigger.

  • The Starks Knight

    @mj. The quickness of AI? Let’s not get carried away. The man is fast but not as quick as AI. I think if Kobe and Lebron meet up in the finals Kobe will perform better than Lebron and lead his team to the championship. I am an admitted Kobe “hater” by the way.

  • Ahmad

    Jerry West sounds like someone who lost his memory! Kobe is certainly the best in the world! no question, look at the way he carried his team last night! Kobe’s 40pt game last night was a “shut-up” statement to Jerry West!
    I’d like to see LeBron win 3 rings, then we can start the debate about whose career is better! The best player isn’t just about stats, otherwise we choose D-Howard over LeBron and Kobe, it is about the intangibles!!

  • Jack

    Oh by the way the two times LA played Cleveland this year, Kobe owned LeBron!!

  • Tim

    KOBE KOBE KOBE!!!! The best ever to play a sport!

  • Tim

    I think that your career should be judged by winning championships. LeBron must win some rings before comparing him to KB24 or MJ23!

  • truthteller

    Tim,
    That makes perfect sense in the real, unbiased world. Kobe is hated and never really appreciated for a tremendous career thus far. People, including the media are just looking for somebody, anybody to take over and become the main focus, the face of the NBA! Anybody will do. Carmelo, Dwade, T-Mac, you, me just anybody but Kobe! if you don’t believe me, people have been comparing LeBron and Kobe since LeBron’s rookie year! What an insult and lack of disrespect! And the funny thing is, Kobe was Lebron’s favorite player in high school!

  • http://fdskfl.com Jukai

    If I’m bored later today at work, I’m going to have a field day on these commentators.
    Lebron has surpassed Kobe in the four major aspects of the game (scoring, rebounding, passing, defense)

  • http://fdskfl.com Jukai

    Tim: Is Robert Horry nine times better than Dominnique Wilkins?

  • The Starks Knight

    @Tim. Rodney Dangerfield wants this lack of disrespect you speak of.

  • The Starks Knight

    oops I should probably learn to read. Last comment @truthteller.

  • http://slam warr

    JUKAI UR WRONG KOBE SCORED 81 POINTS SCORED 60 IN THREE QUARTERS SO SCORING NO… REBOUNDING LEBRON IS BETTER THEY COUNT ON HIM TO REBOUND MORE THAN LAKERS NEED KOBE TO .. LEBRON IS A BETTER PASSER… DEFENSE KOBE NINE TIME FIRST TEAM ALL DEFENSE LEBRON ONE LEBRON BLOCKS SHOTS SO U THINK HE CAN DEFEND U BUGGIN.. LETS TALK ABOUT WHAT KOBE DOES BETTER DEFEND ON THE BALL,SHOOT BETTERS THAN HIM DRIBBLE BETTERS THAN HIM… ITS EASY TO FALL IN LOVE WITH LEBRON BECAUSE OF THE ATHLETICSM AND THE CHARISMA BUT KEEP IT ON SKILL AND JUGE FAIRLY

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    thank you warr

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Warr and Seed are fools. Yall really have to stop making arguments based on pointless single game performances against the defensive likes of Toronto and New York.
    Bron >>> Kobe
    I mean, c’mon guys, Jerry freakin West is admitting it.
    Its not really debateable anymore. Start saying ‘best closer’ ro something because that’s really the only semi-coherent argument thats left, but it probably won’t sound as good after the Nuggets eliminate the Fakeshow this year anyway.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    So we should judge players only on skill and ignore athleticism? I think I’m figuring out how guys like JJ Reddick and Adam Morrison get drafted in the lottery. I mean, would you put Vlade above Shaq because he was more “skilled”?Yeah, i didn’t think so. Athelticism is part of the pro game you tards! And if you guys don’t think Bron is incredibly skilled your lying to yourselves.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    Ciolkstar, get off of Jerry West’s logo for a second and chill, Kobe can score better than Lebron, if you don’t believe that your a fool, rebounding should be Lebron he is a small forward, passing is Lebron-because of the offensive sets the Cavs run, Lakers run triangle-learn basketball-you can’t build up assists in a triangle offense, defense is Kobe, he showed last night, shutting BIllups in first half and finished on Melo in 4th. Lets see what your shirtless, wannabe dancer, I need attention, said no body can stop him, does against Magic, before you talk.

  • http://slam warr

    appreciate that seed its crazy when people say lebron is better THE SYSTEM U PLAY IN CAN SOMETIMES MANIPULATE THE AUDIENCE TO THINKIN THAT ONE BETTER PLAYER IS BETTER THAN THE OTHER WHO WAS THE BETTER PLAYER ON THE OLYMPIC TEAM? YALL FORGOT THAT FAST …KOBE MADE ALL THEM STEP THERE GAME UP AND NOW YALL WANT TO DEBATE ITS CRAZY JUST CRAZY

  • breeze

    @war i couldnt put it better @ jukai is bugging with old azz jerry west. if we talking about skil for skill here…kobe offense machine and dont ever put “scoring” in a equation against kobe he calm down so his team can be more sucessful. dont act like mamba can go completely crazy and he a way better onthe ball defender…lebron has no choice to do what he does or they do not advance. please tell why ya hate kobe…colorado its been years damn…

  • Pardeep

    When Kobe Holds the Finals MVP (The Bill Rusell) and The O Brien in his hands and looks at the camera those eyes will say the following

    LeBron? haha Take a back seat bro I still run this.

    Shaq tell me how my ass tastes b*ch

    I have 4 now . (You’re next MIKE)

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Please go look at Kobe’s shooting performance in th Olympics. He was at his most selfish shot happy worst. Sure he ended up hitting a clutch three late, but his performace overall was barely good enough for third on the team behind Wade and Bron. Its not crazy, and really, its not even a debate.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    Everybody at the Olympics said Kobe changed that team, not Jkidd, not Lebron-KOBE. Dwade came off the bench only trying to score like he does witht he Heat now and they lose. Kobe played his butt off in the most important quarter of the most important game. That doesn’t count, when all those other games Kobe shot happy to you were already done by the 1st quarter, Funny ciolkstar.

  • http://fdskfl.com Jukai

    Warr, knock off the caps and take your ritalin, kid. Did I say Lebron was better than Kobe at his HEIGHT?
    No, of course not. Three years ago, Kobe was the complete offensive package, there was very little he couldn’t do offensive: post-up, spot-up shoot, shoot off the dribble from midrange, the three-pointline, close-up, drive, alley-oop dunk, half-court, full-court, Kobe was your man. He was an UNSTOPPABLE offensive force. Kobe also had boundless and continuous energy: I don’t think he was an incredible fundamentally awesome defender, but he had the ability to lay low and LOCK down his man by constantly sticking on him, no matter what. Always a hand in the dude’s face, always a body in his way. Could he time a defensive rebound or block on help defense or predict a steal? Not on an all-defensive first team level, arguably not. But he stuck to his man like glue, and that put him on a level above his peers in terms of defense.
    Now let’s fast forward to TODAY. You know, to what is actually RELEVANT to a conversation. Kobe’s is a shooter. Pure and simple. He’ll drive when he sees an open lane, occassionally move without the ball, but nowadays he hangs out midrange or at the three point-line waiting for the ball. It’s a combination of a little drop in athletic ability, a CLEAR drop in endurance, and the loss of the killer edge he once had.. that edge is gone in what I guess is the constant worry to not appear like a ballhog to his team. But ignore the possible reasons, it’s undeniable Kobe’s driving ability is invisible and if his shot isn’t falling, he can’t score. I hate the “well, he’s letting his teammates score more” excuse, the Lakers have seen all SORTS of injuries and Kobe has played the same when they needed him to score or not, save one 61 point performance which was 99% jumpers… ESPECIALLY at the end of the year, when the team needed Kobe to turn into Kobe the scorer for them to grab the best record, and Kobe the jump shooter continued.
    LEBRON, on the other hand, has made tremendous leaps in his all-around game. He hasn’t lost a a pound in strength and he’s probably a bit faster than last year, but his ball handling in the lane has vastly improved and his jumper can get downright wet, at times ridiculous. He now hits threes at almost an identical clip to Kobe, but it’s Lebron’s driving ability that makes him a better scorer… When Lebron’s jumper isn’t falling, there’s still no way a defender can stop Lebron from getting to the basket. It’s Lebron’s passing that makes him so much more of a deadly scorer: double-team him and he just passes out of it easily. Double-team Kobe and you can get some turnovers. If averaging more points in the regular and post season while doing it more efficiently isn’t enough added evidence to convince you that Kobe, in his current non-peak state, is a lesser scorer than Lebron, you have no hope in ever understanding this.
    And I still haven’t ruled out the opinion that Kobe’s dislocated pinkie is still hurting the dude’s scoring touch, but he had the chance to get it fixed, so I’m not going to let it slide.

  • http://fdskfl.com Jukai

    Defense is the same deal. Lebron isn’t on Kobe’s level at one on one defense, but Kobe’s mano-v-mano defense has diminished enough that the thing’s Lebron does on defense, ie playing the passing lanes, weakside low-post defensive help, weakside blocks, leading his man into the big defender, shouting on defensive assignments (KOBE DOES NOT DO THIS ENOUGH, THIS IS INEXCUSABLE TO ME), altering jump shots… Lebron has put himself over Kobe in the defensive catagory.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Basketball is more than scoring (which by the way Bron does better than Kobe as well) Bron is the better rebounder, passer, teammate, defnder (arguably) and is more fun to watch. Just because regular people like you and me can imitate/replicate the things we see Kobe do (lots and lots of jumpshots in varying degrees of difficulty) while Bron’s feats of strength are not really in the realm of possibility for mere mortals, does not mean that Kobe is more skilled or “better” or any of that nonsense.
    And for the record I HAVE ALWAYS vehemnetly opposed criticizing Kobe based on the “colorado” accusations. You will not find a single comment amongst the probable thousands I’ve posted here that refers to that. I’m seriously only concerned with basketball (which does include chemistry and being a good teammate) when making these types of arguments. I done with yall fools now.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    Jukai, what a waste of typing, didn’t learn nothing new, except you like to type and love some Lebron, the dancer- what great player you know dances all the time and has to be in front of the cameras and has a playing attitude shooting pictures with teammates. NO ONe, the killer instinct isn’t there, People forget Cavs sucked against the top teams this year, remember people-YES!!!

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Boom. Roasted!
    Nice work Jukster.

  • http://www.liveddb.com DDB

    Kobe’s defense and leadership was the rason the Olympic team won. Opponents couldn’t even bring the ball up against his pressure. This allowed Wade and Bron to shoot at a high percentage feeding off turnovers.

    Kobe is still better. He’s way more skilled and while he would have trouble guarding LeBron because of the size advantage, LeBron has no shot at sticking Kobe.

  • http://slam warr

    not on ritalin but Percoets lol…

  • http://fdskfl.com Jukai

    The Seed, the dude dropped 47 to put away the Hawks because he refused to lose ONE game to them… What’s your definition of killer instinct?
    And why does the dancing and fake photos make him a worse player?
    If you’re going to debate the merit of what I wrote, at least directly rebuttal it and don’t dance around it like Lebron to “Never Gonna Give You Up”

  • breeze

    ya cant be serious..like saying is bron is and unstoppable force when driving the ball i bet he is look at his size. is that talent are is he just running thru people…he hardly contested when coming down the lane…but when caron butler was on him he demostrated hes a charging machine….and his jumper is not near kobe please with that fade away crap..and if you gonna bring up stats before you bring it to the mamba lets see if hes better that dwayne wade FIRST. the way ya displaying this is like shaw is better than hakeem because its easier for him …please..both times they played i repeat both times they played KOBE ended thier streak…who was gaurding him both 4th quarter lebron..i rest my case…

  • breeze

    *shaq

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Kobe = Palin
    LeBron = Obama

    Some people are just going to stick to their guns though, no matter how dumb it makes them llok.

  • http://slam warr

    the hawks, yeah they are a great defensive team…. This is the truth most of the people that blog on slam are even too young too understand the game or too old to watch the full game so they wake up watch espn for two hours and first take then read slam article and say things that they hear and repeat them

  • http://fdskfl.com Jukai

    Breeze: Wade shot the ball way more than Lebron did in more minutes. Wade was also involved in a far greater percent of the offense than Lebron was. IF you want, I can pull all those stats off basketball-reference, just ask. I’m talking true shooting percentage and offensive involvement, all of it. There is an argument, there really is, that Wade is a better offensive player than Lebron. I can debate that too though.
    First off, Lebron is shooting a tenth of a percentage less than Kobe from the three. Does that mean that Kobe can’t shoot threes either? That doesn’t make sense. More to the point though, is Shaq a worse player than Kevin Love because the center position is SO MUCH EASIER to Shaq because he’s 7’2 and 300+ pounds compared to the 6’9 200-something pound Love? No, Shaq is SUPERIOR to Love in every facet of the game. Love is probably just as skilled (that may be a bit of an overexaggeration on my part) but Shaq could KILL Kevin Love because of his physical abilities.
    Why should we discount Lebron out-speeding and out-muscling his defenders to the basket? It’s part of his game, combined with the skill you’re ignoring he has, that makes him better than Kobe. Pure skillwise, Kobe’s probably better.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Go swallow a bottle of percocets and do us all a big favor…

  • http://fdskfl.com Jukai

    War: What does defense have to do with killer instinct? Lebron needed to say “f this, I’m winning this game” and he did. This has nothing to do with defense. Where was that “f this, I’m winning this game” against the INCREDIBLE defense of the Celtics last year and ROckets this year? You can ignore that last question, because THE DEFENSE OF A TEAM HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH KILLER INSTINCT.
    Sheesh.
    Not to mention, Kobe dropped 81 points on the defense-inept Raptors and 60 in three quarters against an EVEN WORSE Mavericks team. Should we discount those too?

  • rico

    @chaz….are you seroius bout kobe’s dog? thats sick!

  • breeze

    @jukai when judging talent what do you weigh it on..skills…if you said that lebron had a better year than kobe i agree with you…but when you say lebron is better than kobe i dont understand when we just talking abut skill and will…thats what i perceive jordan to have is skill and will …thats why he wa teh best since his last day on the bills..like iverson was killing and running thru people even more effortless than lebron but did we say iverson was better?..no out of respect for kobe whos been putting down longer and consistently bringing his team out of jams player for player kobe is better…if we are such lucky to see cavs vs lakers jukai you will see that theres a big gap in growth and talent that lebron has not reached yet…

  • Klemperer

    The boy definitely gets his vitamins.

  • http://www.twitter.com/TheDiesel Anton

    The Bryants’ christmas card is probably a wh0re sodomizing an @sshole.

  • breeze

    *bulls

  • http://slam warr

    i never said anything about killer instinct… i care about defense that other stuff does not matter i could care less if he jump over the moon i am judging there whole game every aspect of it when i see lebron i see someone that intimdates the other team u rarely see people take charges on him however when he plays good defense he does not attack the same for example agaginst the spurs in the finals for all his ability he did not have one dunk, not one in the whole series certain teams are scared of lebron thats a fact watch the game tonight i dont believe the magic are scare the hawks were scare the pistons packed it in when they traded billups..

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Yeah Jordan was just skill and will, had nothing to do with insane speed, quickness, hops and stamina…

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Breeze: you’re underrating Lebron. I’m not sure if it’s because your love for the Lakers that’s making you do it, or if you haven’t seen enough Cavaliers games, but you’re underrating him.
    Let’s set some ground definitions:
    Being “better” than someone, to me, means one takes in all thing and measuring them to someone else, which includes skill, athletic ability, will-power, leadership, value to a team, mental awareness, etc.
    Kobe is more skilled than Lebron. He’s got better footwork, better ball handling, and good lord, his shooting mechanics far outweigh Lebron.
    Lebron, however, is a better athletic speciman, and he USES it to his advantage, much like the way Shaq uses his advantage over bigmen like Joe Smith (very talented) to DOMINATE him. As Jerry West -actually- said, if you read into the interview, being big, being strong, and being fast, those all factor into BEING A GREAT PLAYER. And since Lebron is bigger than Kobe, much STRONGER than Kobe, and faster in a sprint than Kobe (not in the half-court, because Kobe is a better ball handling, but definitely in the open court), you have to take those things into account. Lebron’s athletic superiority to Kobe (IN KOBE’S CURRENT STATE, NOT IN KOBE’S PEAK) outweighs the advantage Kobe has over Lebron in skill.
    But I’m not done there, I think Lebron has something over Kobe in another area: mentally. Not this whole ‘killer instinct’ nonsense which you don’t really understand, I’m talking court-vision, offensive awareness, SEEING things happen on the court without actually having to stop and look around. Kobe has great offensive awareness when he’s scoring… he knows where he is, the hoop is, and his defenders are. Lebron, on the other hand, knows all that but he ALSO knows where his teammates are, where the ball is going when he’s not holding it, where his players are going to run when they haven’t even moved… this helps Lebron in all facets of his game: he knows better than Kobe where the ball is going to bounce to (rebounding), he knows where a ball is going to be passed too and where a defender is going to run to (defense), he knows where his teammates are and will be (passing) and most importantly, when he’s triple teammed, he still knows where to pass it to in a SPLIT SECOND, without thinking, which makes putting more than one defender on Lebron even MORE dangerous and let’s Lebron have more room to operate (~OFFENSIVELY~).
    These factors make Lebron, in my opinion, better than Kobe, at his -CURRENT STATE- (not Kobe at his peak, which I’m going to continually remind you).
    I personally think Lebron is a better leader, but I wont bet my life on it, I think Kobe doesn’t have a very mangiable situation where he can lead.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Lebron dunking on the Spurs, 2007 Finals:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U34rvid3Hv4

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Lebron dunking on the Spurs, 2007 Finals:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U34rvid3Hv4

  • http://slamonline.com DONONE

    F**K THE FAKE-SHOW AND ANYONE DOWN WITH THAT BUNCH OF FLAMERS!!! NUGGETS IN 6

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Warr, while we wait for the video I posted that shows Lebron dunking on the Spurs in the 2007 Finals to clear from moderation, let’s state the obvious flaw in your logic:
    You’re under the assumption that the Orlando Magic aren’t scared of Lebron James.
    That’s a huge flaw in your logic.
    Lebron James has always had a field day against the Magic. It’s actually the defense that fails Cleveland when they go against the Magic… Howard doesn’t want to take charges against Lebron because he doesn’t want to be in foul trouble, and we’ll see if anyone else can stay infront of Lebron to draw charges in the first place (Rashard? Hedo is definitely not going to be on Lebron).
    But, mark my words: the Magic are SCARED of the Cavaliers.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Anyone else? ANYONE ELSE?
    That’s what I thought.

  • lbj_fan

    Lebron will go down as the greatest player in the NBA!!!! Don’t insult Lebron by comparing Kobe to him. Lebron is in a league by himself. He is even better than Jordan was. Jordan couldn’t hit 3′s like LBJ can, and at age 24, Jordan was only in his 2nd year. Lebron is already in his 6th season, and Kobe is basically done. Who’s going to prevent Lebron from winning the NBA championship for the next 6 years? Nobody!!!! Kobe will probably retire within the next 2 yrs. and unlike, Jordan, LBJ won’t be stupid and attempt to play baseball and waste his prime years.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    The magic will be lucky to win ONE game in this series. ONE

  • http://slam warr

    ok last 6 games versus magic lebron 39 points 13 rebounds 14 ass 55 percent from the field they win. 30 points 7 rebounds 6 ass 50 percent from the field they lose. 17 points 7 rebounds 9 assists 27 percent they lose. 23 points 8 rebounds 8 ass 37 percent from the field they lose. 43 points 8 rebounds 12 rebounds 55 percent from the field they win. 26 points 9 rebounds 8 ass. 35 percent from the field they lose.. he is going to have stats because he dominates the ball however he has not beat the magic so they keep on him under 50 percent they will win and u will see the box score in the morning and u will see the near triple double because they isolate all day in cleveland in u will be saying the same things tomorrow go to bed now so u can saty up later u old ass man

  • http://slam warr

    u found one.. excuse me i was wrong…. that was the only one or was there more

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Warr – Non of that is in the playoffs. And the Cav’s stopped using Iso’s as their main offensive set this season after Mike Brown gave up Offensive responsibilities. So stop putting your stock in things that happened over a year ago. And things that happened in the regular season don’t matter at all. Cleveland absolutely owned SA in 07 and got demolished in the Finals….just like the magic will this year in the ECF.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Warr: so he averaged 30/8.8/9.5 on 43% shooting… and uhm, this was suppose to disprove my point that Lebron has good games against the Magic HOW exactly?

  • miggy

    everybody knows this. maturity, skill level, talent… LBJ all the way. and im not a lebron fan…

  • http://slam warr

    he going to average that he dominates the ball they have know offense…. im done just wait until tonight if im wrong i was surely own up

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    And here is the cherry on top. The Orlando Magic are a 3pt Specialty team playing against the best 3pt defense in the league, and the best 3pt shooting team in terms of % in the playoffs and second best in the whole NBA. How are you going to beat a team when they are better then you at your biggest strength….

  • breeze

    jukai i understand betetr why you think he a better player…i mean lebron court awarness is amazing i wont front and betetr than kobes…..i feel like when i go skill for skill ..today..kobe better jumper,better ball handler, better defender,best closer ive ever seen, clutch vs better passer, make his team better, and easier scorer..it may be slight but outweighs lebron..now for chance u dont believe lets go back to lebron vs the spurs finals ….it shows where he lacks at….lets go to boston vs cavs….lebron 4th quater decision passes up three…bad decisions…lets go to this year ….against kobe….both times bad decisions ended with a kobe victory…he will be great but hes not the greatest as yet…

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    War: Okay, that’s a valid point, why didn’t you say that instead of listing Lebron’s statistics? You’re not very good at the whole intelligent debating thing.

  • http://www.twitter.com/TheDiesel Anton

    SVG is sweating more than Wesley Snipes around tax season.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Its funny that people are still stuck on the Kobe is better then LeBron thing when it is completely obvious who is better. If Jerry West outright says LeBron is better, the panel on ESPN doesn’t even want to talk about it because its obvious, Oscar Robertson admits it, and people still can’t accept it and shut up is hilarious.

  • D21

    Jukai: all those things you listed at 2:09 that LeBron does that Kobe doesn’t?

    Just my opinion, but I think Kobe has these things too. He knows the triangle well, he was running it when Shaq was the #1 option. He knows/trusts his teammates to know where they will be (how many times have you seen him draw a double team and kick to an open shooter?), and he definitely understands how to pick apart a defense. I think the biggest difference between the players is their attitude. LeBron seems to take a lot more joy from the success of his teammates and is closer with them, whereas Kobe comes across as only looking out for his teammates because he needs them to help him win. That’s why wherever LeBron goes, the Cavs will follow willingly…but wherever Kobe goes, the Lakers will follow eventually.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Breeze: I can understand why you think Kobe’s better because you’re throwing in skillset higher over everything else. You’re judging this more on a one-on-one plane vs me, whose judging this on a “who is a better overall basketball player on a team.”
    I still disagree with you on minor details (better defender and closer, being two things…) but I can see where you’re coming from better.
    I probably should warn you though, that looking down on Lebron for passing up on that three to an open Delonte West in game 7 against the Celts last year is probably not a wise thing to bring up, you know, since Kobe’s team didn’t even get to game seven.

  • http://slam warr

    i listed because u say he dominates so i was acknowledging ur point on stats im not a hater… but his field goal percentage is terrible in there losses versus magic so that was my point u can score 30 but if u take 30 shot then how good is that

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Do you seriously think he is going to put up 30 shots in the playoffs? Is that even a legitimate concern?

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Warr: Valid point then, the question is if you think the Magic will be able to keep Lebron shooting on 45 for four games?
    For this to happen, two other things have to fail Lebron:
    1) Lebron’s jumper, which has been downright WET half of the playoffs, has to streakily disappear from him
    2) Lebron’s teammates must not be hitting open jumpers so more double teams can be sent Lebron’s way
    If these two things aren’t there for Lebron, Lebron will have to take it into his own hands and drive through double teams to try and score on Dwight in the paint, which probably wont happen mroe times than it will.
    I don’t think, though, for four games, Lebron will experience both those problems. Nor do I think the Magic will 100% win even if Lebron ISN’T shooting above 45%.
    I really think the key to the Magic is their three-point shot, because even with the statistic NBK gave, the Magic historically shoot the LIGHTS out of the ball at the 3-line against the Cavs.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    …Only Kobe needs 30 shots to get 30 points…

  • breeze

    lol jukai that was very low….and you know bball is about match-ups nothing else …team player lebron….basketball player..and we can mentioned last year if you want…because you seem to overlook when your boy was in the finals…all that talent you speak of diminished…and that year 2007 he traveled to get passed the wizards…where he was showed up by caron butler…see the triangle offense doesnt permits kobe to be so many things..but what i cant seem to understand is why you wont dare to mentioned the 2 times these players we speak off squared off?

  • http://vnsny.org Spaceship Jay

    I really can’t say that it’s even fair to compare the 2. Were talking about 2 completley different players here. Their both leaders of their teams: I can definitly want to ask, what would happen if the Cavs in the West and the Lakers were in the East?

  • breeze

    this year!!!!

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    The Magic’s best chance is to shoot and make A LOT of threes. Thats what I’ve been saying about them all postseason. when they start hot from three and build a big lead they are tough to catch up with because they play solid D. Also, I wonder if they’ll use Pietrus on Bron at all in this series? he’s a better defender than Hedo or Shard and has played really well whenever he catches some significant minutes, I’m really not sure why he doesn’t play more…

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    The magic also historically struggle from 3 in the playoffs just like every other team in NBA history. One good 3pt shooting game a series won’t beat cleveland

  • lbj_fan

    look at Kobe’s supporting staff compared to Lebron’s. Kobe has all stars in Gasol and Odom. Lebron does it by himself and makes others better. Kobe’s go a hall of fame coach instead of mike brown. Put Lebron on that Lakers team and see how many championships he would win.

  • breeze

    if the lakers were in the east they would go 72-10..lol and the cavs prob would not make it out the second round….

  • http://vnsny.org Spaceship Jay

    definetley want to ask*

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Breeze: Kobe didn’t play his whole career inside the triangle. He had three years where either he wasn’t coached by Phil Jackson, or the triangle was pretty much non-existant. We had a RAPID increase in scoring at 35 a pop, but really, nothing else.
    Also, I don’t know why you keep bringing up 2007. Kobe was still at the peak of his career in 2007 and Lebron wasn’t half the player he is today. Lebron is a way better defender, way better leader in both tempo control and team management, way better shooter, and I honestly think he’s faster than he was back then. What happened in 2007 when Lebron was pretty much totally shut down cannot happen today.
    Also, I’m pretty sure Lebron has hit more game winners this year than Kobe. Lemme try and dig that up.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Mo Williams and Z are all stars, Mike Brown is part of the Gregg Poppovich mafia which is basically equal to a HOF coach. But LA still has more advantages

  • http://vnsny.org Spaceship Jay

    lbj_fan answered my question, by COMPLETELY NOT ANSWERING MY QUESTION. Thanks.

  • breeze

    i agree hes a much better player today….so this is my question…who wins lakers or cavs…and why??

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Cleveland went 26 and 4 against the West
    LA went 21- 9 against the east. You Laker jockers need to shut up

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    You know who has hit more game winners than Kobe for their respective CAREERS (and Kobe’s career is a MUCH longer one)
    Carmelo F*cking Anthony. Thats who.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    is that true?

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Breeze:
    If the Lakers play to their full potential, Lakers win. If the teams play how they’ve been playign currently throughout the playoffs, Cavaliers win.
    The Lakers in the beginning of the season are just too much offense for the Cavaliers to handle, and the Cavs don’t match up well against the Lakers… most of their positions are cancelled out on the other side, and the Cavaliers bigmen don’t take advantage of their size against the Lakers for some reason.
    Taht being said, Cavaliers are playing BETTER in the post-season than they have in the regular season, and the Lakers are playing worse (no team chemistry, and a lack of urgency).
    So, I don’t really know.

  • breeze

    nbk…please we can add more losses if they had to play those teams they lose to 4 games…you your self said that mo and z are all stars ..so they dont lack in team..they have dudes with experince ben wallace ,wally,joe smith , and they young talent as in mo,delonte,occasional daniel gibson,varejo,pal, i dont really see the lakers gigantic advantage …it would be diffrent if odom and gasol were as consistent than mo but they are not so what are you saying?

  • http://vnsny.org Spaceship Jay

    Lol, Why does a Laker fan have to face so much adversity on SLAM? Why can’t you have a normal civil conversation? I think Kobe may have secretly violated a lot of people on this site. If he didn’t, why the blatant hate? Jukai maybe Z, and a couple of others are the only guys I see that type without throwing up some form of hate. It’s ok.

  • breeze

    @jukai i agree with you but these games i hope you know will come down to player against player lebron vs kobe…after all said in done those the onl players that can change the face of each game…now with that being said no matter how bad the lakers are playing which in my opinion houston is a tuffer team than the hawks and the piston just like last night when it comes down to mamba vs anybody you know who the victor..just like you said lebron is not half the player he is today 2 years ago..but even then they was comparing him …and i think he still not ready…

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    My point was their supporting cast are similar on paper. The Lakers advantage comes from the 9 rings on Phil Jacksons fingers, and the 3 on Kobe’s and 3 on Fishers’. Championships are still the most important aspect of playoff basketball and the Lakers are the only team left that has even won one. Thats their advantage. Cleveland’s advantage resides in the fact that their team is manufactered to support LeBron’s strengths without exposing his weaknesses. And whether you want to admit it or not, no team has been so well built around one player arguably ever and that is why Orlando is screwed, and the West is weary (idk what word to use because scared isn’t right).

  • http://vnsny.org Spaceship Jay

    Get past Wade first.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Breeze: Houston IS a tougher team than Hawks and Pistons, even undermanned. That being said, I don’t think ti would have taken the Cavaliers seven games to beat the Rockets, give me that at least.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Well, it was true when that freeDarko book came out last summer and Melo has hit atleast 4 game winners this season (two seperate times at the buzzer vs the Thunder, the three vs Dallas, and atleast 1 other I’m struggling to remember the details of) which is more than Kobe has this season I believe.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Breeze whether or not you think Houston is better then the Hawks is irrelavent, Houston took LA to game 7, Atlanta didn’t sniff a win.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    That is an F’in amazing statistic consider Kobe is the best clutch performer these Laker fans have ever seen. Does Michael Jordan exist in LA?

  • http://jakeandamir.com tealish

    Not believable, so not buying it. Come on, let’s hate with dignity. Surpassed Kobe….really? Come on, now…

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Tealish, you do know that it was Jerry “Laker For Life” West who orginally made this statement right? Its beyond obvious that, at this stage in their respective careers, Bron is that dude. Kobe is still a monster and capable of ripping hearts out, as he showed (from the FT line…yawn) last night.

  • breeze

    ill give that because of match-ups….cause thats what it comes down to…by your theoroy that la gives cavs match up problems then denver would also? or no….and i believe the jazz would also ? but the would beat the cavs before seven yes.,@and nbk what are you talking its irrelavent…if the cavs played the jazz and the rockets and even the portland they would have a harder playoff than that hawk pistons..it was better games in march madness please

  • AlbertBarr

    It is simple. LeBron is the Hero…Kobe is the Martyr.

  • http://vnsny.org Spaceship Jay

    As a matter of fact, talk to me when the Cavs beat Orlando. I can’t say LeBron has or will ever be better than Kobe. I can say that LeBron will be better valued and put on a higher plateu than Kobe will EVER BE. If Kobe didn’t catch that charge in Denver, he would be on a pedistool as high as Mike’s right now; actually, before the Denver thing, he was on his way there. LeBron is not the next Mike. He’s creating a new class by himself, much like the Jordan’s, Magic’s and Dr. J’s before. Kobe will always stay in his particular place because how he is percieved by the media. Not to say that he doesn’t deserve it.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Breeze there is no way for you to substantiate what your saying. As far as I am concerned both teams have played two playoff series. The lakers have lost, even have been takin to game 7 against a team with LESS individual talent then Atlanta (considering Yao was hurt) and Cleveland hasn’t lost. YOu can’t give the Lakers an edge based on a hypothetical theory. Use something relevant and I won’t disagree but no matter what if you are going to try and use this years playoffs as your barometer for what will happen in the Finals you can’t seriously think Cleveland is the underdog.

  • breeze

    on top of that..too many people are stuck in the dream and will not get over the mike era….and for some reason kobe maybe because he conceited or maybe because that was your girl in colorado or sister …but damn he goes thr the most scrunity if these dudes done half of the things he done with the ball they would be idolized on a platform…the kind shots he makes cant be taught what he doesn in the clutch cant me pratice…is just being better

  • breeze

    @nbk…your right all i ahve to say is this let this finals be down to lebron vs kobe….talent will..and heart will be on the table and lets see who be the victor…i dare you to bet against the mamba..and for all to say lebron is better than kobe…before we go there i wanna stand up and say hes not better talented than wade…..i bet now you gonna have a bunch of excuses …

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    If you think anyone in the history of basketball is more athletically and/or physically gifted then LeBron James then there is no reason talking to you its redundant

  • http://slamonline.com Jacob J

    Hell no LeBron has not surpassed Kobe! Kobe is the better player by far because he cannot be stoped and has been to the finals 5 time winning it all in 3.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    I love how all these people think they know more then guys who have been involved with the NBA longer then they have been alive. Ignorance is bliss

  • breeze

    listen foolish man….athletic and physcially doesnt make the best…the question on hand if you can comprehend is do you think hes better talented than wade…i dont wanna know his shoe size..im asking you is he better than wade …cause you cant be serious if you think just because he bg and strong he is …

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Reading this isht hurts my brain

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    If Kobe’s been to the Finals 5 times and won 3 (all with Shaq), its fairly clear that he CAN be stopped and HAS BEEN STOPPED 40% of the time… I mean, am I missing something here?
    Its really hard to argue with people who don’t even know what they are saying.

  • http://jakeandamir.com tealish

    Ciolk: My comment wasn’t referring to West himself, but rather to the swarms of people taking his statement as validation for Bron > Kobe when it is pretty clearly a motivational tactic.
    And no, it’s not beyond obvious.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Breeze you have proven your not worth talking to. Better Talented makes no sense for one. And obviously talented has its own meaning in your world. But in ours talent means: the natural endowments of a person. Which is exactly what physical and athletic ability are

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Its beyond Obvious. Magic Johnson admitted it wasn’t worth talking about Last night. The whole Panel on ESPN said it. Oscar Robertson said it. And other then Magic those dudes don’t give an ish about Kobe’s motivation. But your a Laker fan so believe what you want

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    does anybody realize that over the past 5 years Kobe has had a better season then LeBron 1 time. 1 time in 5 yeras and we are still havin this conversation. LeBron isn’t even 25 yet

  • breeze

    listen nbk….ok ok…lebron is talented skills power ability…but wade is also ….dont give me websters definition on talent we talking basketball wise…i dont see how you belive that hes better than kobe..because i dont see how hes better than wade…wheres your proof of lebron even better than wade …is itbecause of wins ? please make your thesis

  • http://www.twitter.com/TheDiesel Anton

    Arguing with Laker fans is like winning in the special olympics: at the end, you’re still a retard.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Every single statistic accept assists. Even though LeBron turns the ball over Less. Wins are also part of it (the biggest part). Sheer Size still plays a role. He has a better jump shot. Is a better on ball defender. Is less injury prone. Has better court vision. Is a better leader. do you want me to name everything? Dwayne Wade was better then LeBron in college haha

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Breeze: It can, if your physical and athletic domination makes you BETTER than that other player. You seem to be holdign Lebron BACK because you’re ignoring his physical superiority over Kobe simply because it’s not something Kobe can work on. Until you acknowledge that physical and athletic attributes are just as important as skill in the NBA, you wont ever be able to realize what NBK is saying.

  • http://jakeandamir.com tealish

    Nbk: Please, I’ve rooted against the Lakers for as long as I can remember, cheering for the Blazers, the Kings, the Sixers, the Pistons… and thankfully the Spurs. So relax and be objective.
    I think Kobe is still the best. I don’t mind if you disagree. But to think it’s beyond obvious for some to think that 24 is still No. 1, smells and tastes of haterade.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Breeze: If I give you statistics proving Lebron is better than Wade, will you acknolwedge that both are better than Kobe?

  • http://jakeandamir.com tealish

    I do endorse Haterade though, in moderation.

  • SAG

    Jordan was also better than Magic, Bird & Isaiah; and it took him a few years to get the chip.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    I have no hate for Kobe at all man. But if you can’t see how much LeBron affects a game compared to everyone else in the league I am going to try and help you see it. It is obvious who is better to me atleast. If PER and Statistics aren’t enough, why not look at wins over the past 5 years? Kobe’s teams have had a better record 1 time. He is on the Lakers and Phil Jackson is his coach, LeBron turned 24 this season and is in cleveland and didn’t have a 2nd banana until this year yet has consistantly won MORE games then Kobe Bryant. And IDK about you but if i Ran a franchise I would like the players that give me the best chance to win

  • http://www.nba.com JE

    As I’m just now looking at the post, I haven’t read the thread of comments and I’m probably not going to any time soon, so if anyone already suggested this, I’m sorry. But maybe Jerry West didn’t mean what he said. As noted in the post, West served as a mentor to Kobe during many rough patches throughout his career, meaning it’s very possible he only said this to motivate Kobe. Just a thought.

  • http://vnsny.org Spaceship Jay

    Thank You Tealish.

  • breeze

    lol jukai you got me there…i just believe that when you have been putting down for a longer of basis than one break out year you cant just go and forget everyone thats been doing…like i said he has had beter year ..well deserved mvp..but is he better than kobe ..thats has done it for the last 7 years and with shaq there….is he a better player…hmm maybe…is he having a better year defiantly….but kobe vs lebron ..who wins ..who owns who…who out plays who…mamba…!!!

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    And sans Shaquille Oneal Kobe Bryant and LeBron James have been to the finals with the same amount of success the same number of times. Don’t use the past to try and substantiate why Kobe’s nuts are still in your mouth. (not talking to you tealish but anybody who uses the shaq era as proof kobe is better)

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Breeze once again if you look at that, there one on one match ups, other then 1 game this year LeBron own’s Kobe. Look at the facts before you say things

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Jukai: a wise man once said don’t argue with fools because people, from a distance, can’t tell who is who.

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Can I interject one comment into this literary bonanza? If you thought Kobe struggled last night containing Melo in the paint, wait until he’s re-introduced to a mega-motivated Lebron. If they both get to the Finals, that is. Or will Kobe take the easy way out and let Ariza take the pounding?

  • http://www.shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    And Kobe was exceptional last night, for the first time in this years playoffs. Lebron has been exceptional in every game the Cavs have played.

  • breeze

    and i agree with one thing both of you are saying jukai and nbk..he is a physical specimen…but with all that its still comes down to 48 min..24 on the shot clock…and what you gonna do with it…at this stage finals ..playoffs..the lakers are playing worse than the cavs yes…but you see kobe hasnt let up yet..now lebron will make his own mark legendary i believe…its like lebron is a created player out there…but for some reason kobe doesnt look like that..not too big…to so so strong…no real height advantage …he can jump but not that high…hes athletic but not that much…but for some reason he still getts the job done…lebron might make it easier..but lebron vs kob the w will be in la. mark these words

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Breeze: So you don’t want me to prove it? Because I had gathered up a boatload of advanced statistics and research from 82games and basketball-reference, so, you know, just ask.
    The problem is, you’re putting past achievements ahead of what is happening right now. I’ve already acknolwedged that Kobe at his peak was better than Lebron at his peak, and I wont compare them from careers because Kobe has had nearly a decade more time to build up a resume than Lebron: if you want to be technical, Lebron’s resume, outside of championships, is SUPERIOR to Kobe’s in every way shape of form up till both of their six years (I know that is an unfair comparison, just like comparing both their total careers is an unfair comparison).
    I guess what you’re trying to articulate is that we really don’t know if this is just a DOWN YEAR for Kobe, who will pop right back up circa 2005 next year, and a BREAKOUT year for Lebron, who will digress next season for once the defense adjusts/his shot stops luckily falling/something in the team changes/etc.
    You could very well be right, it COULD be Lebron’s best year he’ll ever have and Kobe’s worst year he will have in a long time. I personally believe, from the gradual increase in performance by Lebron, and by the gradual decrease in physical ability by Kobe, that this is how it is and will be.
    And that’s that.
    Lebron having a better year than Kobe, with Lebron on the upswing and Kobe on the decline, means that from this day forward, Lebron will be better than Kobe when comparing them year-to-year to the future.
    We can’t compare peaks yet because Lebron hasn’t hit his peak, and it’s unfair to compare careers because Lebron has had so much less time to develop his than Kobe’s.
    We can only compare year-to-year and gauge the future with what we already know. And, with that, I believe Lebron has outdone Kobe, and heading into the future, Kobe will never be better then Lebron James from here on out.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Z: A wiser man said, “don’t tell a dude what to do when he’s bored at work”

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    I hope Trevor Ariza’s grandpa doesn’t make any predictions

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    breeze is either high or foreign

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    I believe Breeze’s point is that we can gauge all we want, but he will only say “Lebron is having a better year than Kobe” until Lebron bests Kobe in the Finals… only then can we say Lebron is better than Kobe.
    Simplistic, but arguably valid logic.

  • breeze

    they just showed the games on espn classic last night and the previous night…one game in l.a cavs lost kobe fadeaway and 1 on lebron 4th quater that was game..wnet to your house…lebron play better yes mo didnt show up..kobe same thing..

  • http://vnsny.org Spaceship Jay

    LeBron owned Kobe stat wise this year in their games against each other? Or in wins? I remember the Lakers winning both games this year with Kobe usually guarding LeBron throughout. LeBron usually guarded… Luke Walton. Usually.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Yeah, it is SLOW as a mutha at my job today. Not complaining, just a reason why I’ve been here all damn day.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    LeBron outplayed Kobe one game this year, and kobe outplayed LeBron one game. In previous years LeBron has bested Kobe more times then Kobe has outplayed him. It doesn’t matter though as Jukai said LeBron is getting Better and Kobe is leveling off (or getting worse)

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Everyone’s work is slow I presume. F’in economy

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    People only notice Kobe on defense for about 5 possesions a game but then they assume he’s been playing like that the entire game. There’s a reason you noticed those five possesions. When Kobe really gets low and denies the ball or tries to presure the ball he’s pretty damn good, but it only comes in spurts. Ariza guarded Bron whenever he was on the floor, except for maybe the last 4-5minutes of the fourth. I mean Kobe himself would admit it lwess begrudgingly than many here (which i totally respect) last night after the game he said he was battling melo best he could but was “A littlre out of his weight class” a perfectly valid analogy because the size and weight make such a big difference, with Bron its only moreso.

  • http://vnsny.org Spaceship Jay

    Yes it is nbk. Yes it is.

  • breeze

    yes jukai im waiting on the match up…i hope it happens and we all can see …i think back then when we question jordan too whoever…they played and he out played the opponet.which maded him better..but i will wait..and nbk can understand what i mean..because if we were all ballers and u average close to a triple double and u scored high but u couldnt perfom as well against me then it doesnt mean nothing…im better than you ….if i beat you when we meet from iour respective sides where stats dont matter..media…doesnt take place..just me and you and the ball…now what…

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Ciolk i agree 98% with you. Down low though do you think LeBron or Melo is better at getting position and using his body? I think I would rather have Melo on the block. But your right

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Breeze I don’t know what you think you know but this is the facts, Kobe and LeBron won’t gaurd eachother for over 80% of a series. and According to the crap you just said, the you me and the ball crap, Paul Pierce is better then Kobe Bryant. Thats not what I believe but using YOUR logic thats true.

  • breeze

    5 possesion who you talking about COILKSTAR….lebron off ball blocking the tyrone lou shot is not defense..kobe plays hard nose defense and always plays the best on teh team or atleast the second..lebron in this series will have rashad ya better hope the dude dont feel good hes gonna abuse this so called king…

  • http://vnsny.org Spaceship Jay

    Very true ciolkstar. Honestly, the Lakers will probably win soely because of the match-ups amongst the 2 teams more-so than Kobe and LeBron’s individual play. But Kobe WILL guard LeBron. If LeBron tries the same thing, he has gotten before and WILL get scored on. With that being said, I think Jukai explained Breeze’s argument better than Breeze did.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Yes, NBK Melo is better at using his body on the block, positioning for rebounds and such. Sometimes, for all his brawn, Lebron doesn’t really bang inside (the way Kobe and Melo were last night) he more charges the defnder useing his speed and ungodly momentum to overwhelm.

  • breeze

    nbk….thats no true

  • http://www.twitter.com/TheDiesel Anton

    Getting back to the Orlando series, Magic fans are complaining about the refs before game 1 even starts: orlandosentinel.com/sport…0,363296.story
    Yup, sure sound like a confident bunch.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Kobe will not gaurd LeBron Jay, Kobe will gaurd Delonte all series. It would make Trevor Ariza’s length and speed useless to have him gaurding a SG/PG

  • breeze

    nbk you cant be serious that he doesnt guard him 80 percent of the time …which game are you watching…i wouldnt say the whole game but most of if…if lebron tries to gaurd kobe…..it wouldnt be pretty…

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Breeze based on what you just said. It doesn’t matter if he plays better away from him, because when they match up if you play better then me your better right? Well Paul Pierce and Kobe Played each other and Paul Pierce played better so he is better. Its your own logic don’t get mad.

  • http://idunkonthem.blogspot.com/ albie1kenobi

    wow, who’d have thought this quote from Jerry West would generate the most comments on SLAM today?

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Ugh. I hate that Anton. It was the same way when I got to go to the Memphis/Kansas NCAA championship game, I was in the Kansas section and they were ALL complaing about the refs that were at the game, before the freakin tip, and continued througout the game. Man, those Kansas folks were some of the worst complainers I have ever heard in my life.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Delonte will gaurd Kobe, LeBron will at the end if LA NEEDS a bucket. LeBron will gaurd Trevor Ariza and play safety on defense. No coach cares about how good the matchup is….they want to win.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Breeze; You’re wrong. Kobe and Lebron only guard each other sporatic periods in the 4th. And usually, when they guard each other, neither really scores much at all. Listen to NBK right now.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    I’m not surprised in the least, albie. Its who the quote refers to that has made such a stink not the person speaking, although that part ties in rather nicely.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Albie: Nice.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Ciolkstar: Albie was being sarcastic.

  • http://vnsny.org Spaceship Jay

    We’ll see nbk, but from a coaches perspective, I wouldn’t think that Ariza would be such a great idea on LeBron, especially since he has been thoroughly abused by Artest and was doo-dooed on by Melo in the first quarter of last nights game. I might rather have Ariza on Delonte because Delonte is such an awkward lefty guard.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    What country are you in right now breeze? I’m betting heavy against the US, and its not the “where” that matters per se, but I just don’t think they televise too many games wherever you’re at…

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Now I feel dumb. You just never know around here anymore, though I should’ve recognized Albie is a SLAM vet and he knows the score…

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Jay that makes no sense at all. That takes Ariza off the boards. That takes him away from passing lanes. That literally cements him to the 3pt line, instead of taking advantage of the only reason he is on the court. Defense

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    The bottom line is, Breeze and War measure the worth of a player differently than Ciolkstar and NBK measure that player. Breeze and War measure head-to-head matchups and overall past greatness, while Ciolkstar and NBK measure overall effect on the league and what is happening NOW, ignoring past events if they are deamed too far to be relevant. There’s no right and wrong (per say), just different ways of looking at things.
    Personally, I choose NBK and Ciolkstar’s point of view. Who cares if Lebron can never outplay Kobe, if Lebron is overall harder to guard and wins more games and is more valuable for the team? That’s just my viewpoint though.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Melo last night was the perfect example of solid defense being anihilated by superior offense. There was really nothing anyone could’ve done. I really do not blame Ariza or think any les of him as a defender.

  • http://vnsny.org Spaceship Jay

    But you know what, we could very well see Orlando and the Nuggets in the finals. And all of this boredom blogging would be just a waist.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    How the hell is is still only 4:00?! Can I go home early, boss?

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    its 2:00 for me Ciolk. think about that shamockery

  • breeze

    im not mad at all this is just opinions and some facts nbk…..i might be wrong if they dont gaurd eachother the wholegame i know that i just know kobe takes the challenge…like last night kobe on chauncey with was real big….but i put the rest that maybe this is a bad year for kobe because i think he sacrifice his own individual stats for his team production…if you cant see that then i dont know what to tell you…media makes lebron dolomite times star trek times jay-z….its all good …but actually kobes not playing bad in the playoffs…

  • http://vnsny.org Spaceship Jay

    nbk; True, but I’m speaking more from a straight bully perspective. Both Ron and Melo overpowered Ariza at times.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Kobe shot 26 shots last night. 16 in the 1st half he is not sacraficing anything

  • http://www.twitter.com/TheDiesel Anton

    Spaceship Jay, stop waisting my time with this. Your so wrong about this, their gonna whin.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    LeBron bullies everyone Jay……Kobe and Ariza that won’t make a difference.

  • breeze

    coilkstar im in the bronx actually.lol…but otherwise this is my opinions….

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    To be fair to breeze. He has pulled back on his argument, made some concessions, and is making some decent points there, and the “Dolomite x Star Trek x JayZ” line made me smile, so there’s that.

  • http://vnsny.org Spaceship Jay

    Anton, spell win correctly first, then I will address you. Win. Whose gonna win? I meant whin. I meant win.

  • http://vnsny.org Spaceship Jay

    Oh Anton, you meant the Cavs and Lakers are gonna whin! Sorry. I meant win.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Jay is to busy using faulty logic to understand typos Anton. Duh

  • breeze

    jukai i think you hit it right on the nose with your perspective….but with your thougts on it ..and you mentioned wins lets say if teh cavs does meet la in the finals..and la wins whos better..or you cant really measure it ike that you saying..you gotta go by stats?….

  • http://vnsny.org Spaceship Jay

    How’s my logic faulty nbk? Surely I can’t be close to the bronx breeze over here. At least the absolute hate has been diffused.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    if the cavs do meet la in the finals and la wins whos better. LA

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    It was sarcasm because it wasn’t a typo you were just getting defensive illogically

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Its “holistic” maaan. Stats are part of it, so is winning, so is the visceral sort of experience of dominating your opponent…

  • Pardeep

    @Jukai :Kobe can score any time he wants dont be stupid you cant go from averaging 35 then 31 to averaging 27 because your slowed down its because hes team has so much talent. Havent you seen the stats when Kobe shoots over 21 aint to good so why would a guy whos dieing for a championship want to loose games? LeBron dont have any all stars with him and MO WILLIAMS does not count they begged to get that guy in there and he was still a reserve after like 3 injuries Kobe has Pau who is also all-nba third team so why would you want a guy like that standing around getting cold and loose yourself the game. This is wat you haters wanted from Kobe before everyone said he was selfish and he needs to pass more and let the game come to him and not force it. Well he is now isnt he? But noooo now LeBRICK is better eh. LeBrons a great player dont get me wrong but if Kobe wanted to drop 60 in game 2 he will do it (or come real close). LeBrons always been good by the way he was faster before not now and his career high in points did come in his second year (56 points) Kobe almost did that in a half (55 pts). Its close but Kobes ability to close games gives him the nod for Best player in the game.

  • http://www.twitter.com/TheDiesel Anton

    Spaceship Jay Posted: May.20 at 5:00 pm
    But you know what, we could very well see Orlando and the Nuggets in the finals. And all of this boredom blogging would be just a waist.
    STOP
    Grammar time!

  • breeze

    nbk you play ball …cause if you do….if me and you both play ball ..your stats is better be cause maybe your team permits you to have more plays the ball is your hand more..you play more min…and my stats are not better than yours…points steal rebounds assist..im shyt by a close margin..but when we play against eachother i outshine you everytime..i even gaurd you more than you gaurd me considerbly the first quater…is what you saying no matter all taht your still better because of what you run thru everyone else…like im not saying your points are not logical thinking and in some cases your not right but come onn…fam

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Breeze: I think it depends on how both Lebron and Kobe play during the finals. If both Kobe and Lebron play terribly, but the Cavaliers beat the Lakers, did Lebron realllly outplay Kobe, or did the Lakers beat the Cavaliers?
    To complicate matters even more, let’s say Kobe plays AWFUL and Lebron averages a trible double with over 50% shooting… did Kobe still beat Lebron, or did the Lakers beat the Cavaliers?
    Now, that’s not to say the head to head match can’t solve the issue entirely. If the Lakers beat the Cavaliers, and Kobe is drop dead amazing during the series, and Lebron struggles to get off his shot and seems lost at times… well, I’m going to have to re-eavulate who is actually better right now.
    NBK gave a good example: Paul Piece really schooled Kobe last year in the NBA Finals. Yet, I never for a second truly believed Paul Pierce was better than Kobe Bryant. If you just go by head-to-heads and winning on the greatest stage, you’d have to say Paul Pierce is better than Kobe, no?

  • http://vnsny.org Spaceship Jay

    I have very little to be defensive about nbk, boredom has taken over. No disreapect to Anton.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Pardeep – If Kobe wanted to score 60 he would have? He shot 26 shots last night and scored 40. So that means to score 60 he would need to put up just over 40 shots? He can do it but the Lakers won’t win

  • breeze

    scartch my last comment

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Pardeep: I was originally going to disagree with you, but I actually DO hate that double standard: Kobe drops 35 points, he’s too selfish. Kobe drops 28 points, he’s not scoring enough. I truly hate that, it’s unfair to Kobe, who can never seem to find the right balance.
    My reasoning for saying Kobe has digressed though, is not purely from the fact that his average dropped, but the way he scores has decreased. Kobe mainly scores on jumpers now: he drives to the basket about 1/3rd of the time, compared to 2005-2006. He gets beat off the dribble more than in 2005-2006. He posts up less, showing a lack of strength. Some dunks have become layups, some possible and 1s have become two free throws.
    Do I think Kobe has lost a MAJOR step? No. I think Kobe’s lost a step, but not by much.
    I think the main thing that has left Kobe is his never ending supply of stamina. Kobe is no longer driving because he gets tired… Kobe can no longer defend his man on every position because he gets tired… Kobe can’t post up smaller guards cause he has to use too much energy… And Kobe can’t do other things like move without the ball or pass like Lebron can to get his breathers. Kobe’s never ending stamina was way more useful than most people thought, and because it’s slowly leaving him, Kobe’s game is being effected more than people would have thought.
    Purely a conjection though, I have no concrete evidecne other than observations.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Kobe has only had a higher PER then LeBron 1 time in his whole career. Even the year he put up 35 was not as impressive as LeBron. And your the ball in his hands theory minutes theory is also disproved by PER because it is adjusted for everyone per 40 minutes (maybe its 36). Either way Kobe has only been better then LeBron twice in LeBron’s WHOLE career. In the early years I would accept that Kobe is better solely because of defensive abilities. But LeBron has caught up and in some eyes has surpassed kobe. So although Kobe is a better shot maker, that 1 advantage is not enough to offset LeBron’s advantage in EVERY SINGLE OTHER facet of the game.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    not as impressive as lebron *this year**

  • breeze

    listen whoever thinks that kobes decline is because of age…or lack of something else than trying make his team betetr share the ball and be a better overall team..than your foolish…he still can score like he wants he showing that in the playofff…he has the hardest defender each team can possibly get and still manages to leave with 40 points …like your right jukai i cant judge games on single handle match up…but i look at both of these players domination it looks diffrent to me.when i see lebron i see power just strength with finnesse…when i see kobe i see a man beyond all odds beyond all measure…taking what every you can possible put at him.and when it clomes to big shots ..closing …this guy does it again..

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    NBK: Uh, I’d say Kobe putting up 35 is more impressive than anything Lebron has done. I’m not sure Lebron will ever be able to average 35 points. Ever.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Kobe shot 13-28 last night with Dahntay Jones, Anthony Carter, JR Smith, and Carmelo Anthony as his defenders. None of them being elite.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Jukai – you would rather have a guy aver 35 for a 41 win team then a guy average 28-8-8 for a 50 win team? LeBron just had the 3rd most productive season of all time this year. Kobe can average 40 for all i care

  • breeze

    yes but tahts the best teh team had…he will get his points on any defender…it makes no diffrence you have never seen any defender shut him down…if you have please tell me _____ill wait?

  • http://lastknickstanding.blogspot.com Bryan

    Why does no one care that they play different postions? Positionally and pound for pound is lebron that much better or a rebounder?

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    What’s your definition of shutting Kobe down Breeze? He is the best scorer since Jordan (arguably) there is not “shutting him down” To me if he scored 40 on 30 shots you played him as well as possible. And more times then not have probaly put your team in a situation to win.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Don’t act like you’re suddenly clueless about Kobe’s team situation, NBK. His teammates on that 35 point squad make this year’s Heat squad look like like the 95-96 Bulls.
    I mean, THINK about it: Kobe put up 35 points while being constantly triple teamed because his teammates were as inept as they come. He also averaged nearly five assists a game while passing to the same inept teammates, you know, where Smush Parker and Kwame Brown were the best players on the team. And he did all that while guarding the best shooting guards in the game, enough to get him a legit spot on the all defensive first team for 41 minutes a game.
    I’m a huge Nash supporter, but that was Kobe’s MVP right there (Kobe’s real MVP belongs to Chris Paul, but that’s another story).
    I can’t say with a straight face that Lebron at his current peak is better than Kobe at his current peak.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Whats the real difference between SF and SG? Other then title they both play the wing. Its the different offenses that WOULD create statistical differences. Kobe’s offense is made to make it easy on their scorers, just like it did for Michael Jordan. LeBron’s offense makes it easy for him to get everyone involved without taking away the key. Which allows for more offensive rebounds, and assists. It depends what you want and who you have not what position they play.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Bryan: Positionally and pound for pound, isn’t Rajon Rondo a better rebounder than Shaq?

  • breeze

    well thats what im saying so dont say none of them defenders are elite…like he cant do it to the elite defenders either what was your pint on that comment …

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Kobe is definately a better scorer then LeBron Jukai I am not saying he isn’t. But that is not as impressive to ME as a guy almost averaging a triple double. Dude is not even 25 yet you don’t think he could average 35 if he wanted to? IDK about you guys but I care more about winning then individual statistics. And LeBrons per minute production is better then anyone not named michael or wilt since the TO became a statistic. And that to me is way more impressive then the 4th highest scoring average of all time.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    my point is 13 for 28 is not great basketball don’t kid yourself. And he played NOT GREAT basketball against average defenders. He closed great though don’t get me wrong. But last night was not very impressive until the last couple minutes.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Yeah, I’m with NBK here. Kobe averaged 35 points but on 45% shooting, while producing less wins, while Bron is getting his near 30 with more assists and rebounds on shooting right at 50% and taking less shots overall. Statsitically Kobe cannot f*ck with Bron Bron (especially over the last two seasons).

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Only three players in ALL OF BASKETBALL HISTORY have averaged more than 35 points in a +70 game season.
    Wilt the Silt, Air Jordan, and Slick Rick Barry.
    I know Lebron’s game is more valuable elsewhere, but if you think Lebron could average 35 points a game if he tried, you’d be terribly mistaken. Not on 45% shooting. Not even at 40% shooting. And the Cavaliers sure wouldn’t win 41 games that year, either. Lebron also has never gotten close to averaging a triple double, a half dozen players have been closer.
    I have to go, so feel free to leave the last rebuttal. I don’t think you’ll truly ever realize how hard it is to average 35 points on that level of play where everyone’s playbook is to triple team Kobe, because no one else can score.

  • breeze

    i agree with jukai …this guy nbk has to be oblivious to when kobe had no choice except to do everything…see like stated before his team doesnt need him to score alot or do everything so on the outside it looks a little like he falling off cause this season he wasnt shooting as much as he is in the playoffs..now he turned it up …hes averaging 30 like he never left ..just to pick up slack…games he doesnt need to do much he falls back..hes has a better understand of the game now..

  • http://lastknickstanding.blogspot.com Bryan

    Ok so people say melo doesn’t rebound as well as he should because he’s basically a shooting guard who leaks out instead of crashing the defensive boards but the same logic doesn’t hold water for kobe? If kobe had to be the lakers best rebounder I have a feeling he could put up 6.5 to 7 consistently.

  • http://sfdjilf.com Jukai

    Ciolkstar: Yer kiddin’ me… Put Lebron on Kobe’s 2005-2006 team, with Kwame Brown and Smush Parker to pass too, see what he averages. I bet he doesn’t touch 35, I bet he doesn’t get 41 wins, I bet he isn’t even considered for all-team defense. The raw ENERGY to carry that team needed, it’s just mind boogling. If you don’t get it now, you wont ever get it.
    Anyway, I really have to go. Peace guys.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    …and if I remember correctly Kobe “closing” last night was just getting to foul line (some on questionable whistles and “must foul” clock situations) and a couple nice passes out of double teams to wide open shooters (Ariza and Fisher hit the biggest shots in the 4th Q)

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    Jukai I see where your coming from. But only 4 plays in NBA history have ever average 25 7 7. He averaged 28 8 8. Only the 3rd guy to do that. What LeBron has done is more rare then what Kobe has done, and LeBron’s done it twice. And LeBron wins more games then Kobe as I already stated which to me is the most important aspect of basketball, call me crazy. And that is not over a 1 year span that is over LeBron’s whole career he has out-won kobe 4 of 6 years

  • breeze

    nbk you are crazy…4 to 6 years…i will give you this year…no other…like i wish lebron was here he would call you crazy…without being modest…like 35 points..best scorer defender…heart closing games…that is amazing…28 8 8 is also amazing..and is just as important..but kobe performance that year…with that damn trash team…in the west when teh spurs were still a fact ..when the suns was crazy…was outstanding..i think your bias against kobe now..

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Still, Kobe was gunning like a MFer that season. 30 shots a game wasn’t nothing for him. PER is relevant in these debates because the way in which he got that 35 matters, namely the efficiency with which he scored. And Kobe is a master of creating his own shot whether or not three people are guarding him, so the lack of solid teammates doesn’t really make the 35 ppg anny more imopressive to me. In fact his game seems more tailor made for achieving individual statistical greatness moreso than winning ball. And STILL by most metrics Bron Bron is superior statistically…

  • breeze

    coilkstar r u from ohio or something go to sleep on this one…

  • http://lastknickstanding.blogspot.com Bryan

    And his scoring isn’t even down like everyone thinks it is, he played 3 less minutes. And for someone who doesn’t attack the basket as much he still took 7 free throws a game. You guys are all insane. Lebron and kobe are basically equal.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar
  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    breeze go to espn read the great debate. I am not taking this out of thin air, LeBrons teams have had a better record then Kobes in every year but 2. 2003-04 LeBrons rookie year. 07-08 Last year. Other then that LeBron has won more games every single year. Its a fact

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    And LeBron has led the LEAGUE in PER 3 TIMES. He has been in the league 6 years, best PER 3 of them. Michael had the best PER almost every year after 1985, and LeBron is doing the same thing. Except with better numbers per 40 minutes. Kobe has led the league in PER…………..NEVER

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    its not even a good debate anymore, you people that think Kobe is better are like the fat kids running the mile with the cross country team. You get there, its just gonna take longer

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    David Thorpe: Ok, let’s address this now. LBJ is the best player in the world. That does not mean he’s the best shooter, or the best closer, or the most clutch. It means that all things being considered, he mas the most positive impact for his team overall. On any team, he’d be better for that team than any other guy. Period. Yes, I think he’s better overall at 24 than anyone ever has. I’m not sure Kobe is 2nd best, ot be honest. Wade, CP3, even Duncan are fair candidates.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Its well known that reality has a “pro Lebron” bias…

  • EAW

    UHHH LET’S SEE NOW…
    KOBE 81 + 3 Rings
    LeBron Throws Chalk in the air and takes fake
    pre game photos with him “team
    Hmmm
    KOBE’S BETTER ALL DAY…AND TOMORROW TOO!!! period.

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    reality lol Ciolk thats the funniest ish ive read all day

  • http://basketball-reference.com nbk

    If anyone else has nything to say about this is suggest you click on the link Ciolk posted before you say anything stupid

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    SHUT DOWN!
    peace till tomorrow

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    Jukai
    LeBron did average 31.5 ppg on 23 shots in his 3rd year… is it that inconceivable (sp?) that he COULD get 35 in 27 shots like Kobe did? It’s unlikely because that’s not his game but to say that he doesn’t have that capacity is maybe shortselling him.

  • http://ittakesanationofmillionstoholdthissac.blogspot.com ciolkstar

    Cosign that isht, Z

  • dubya816

    I still don’t think he’s better. LeBrons squad is stacked with players like Kobe’s is. That’s why the Lakeshow will win it all easily. They’re just kidding right now. They don’t care about winning until they play the MAGIC in the Finals. They just keep messing around.

  • dubya816

    isn’t* my bad

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com BETCATS

    butt secks

  • wilz

    i read the first two comments and was sickened. that was it

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    I’m going to write a book. It’s going to consist of comments from threads such as this. It’s going to be about the KOBE – LEBRON war that creates immediate tension. It’s going to make me a lot of $$$.
    I think that these constant comparisons are always going to come down to ONE thing. Who you individually like more… Half the planet Likes LeBron. The other Half like Kobe….(the side that get little to no sun…?) Thats all it comes down to at the end of the day.

  • http://blogs.myspace.com/originadro Witness

    they need to play one on one already.

  • http://thatwillneverhappenquailyourretarted.com nbk

    well so much for my sweep prediction. But it was the supporting cast that choked that shouldn’t happen again

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    bad game. i don’t like lebron’s scoring to be in the high 40s. it usually means that the team stank. i.e. mo williams going 6-19 and the bench giving 5 points. gotta give it to orl who didn’t fold after being led by 15 early. gnite!

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    This is what I am talking about when Lebron is winning he is shooting jumpers hoping they go in, but when the game is on the line all he could do is drive to hole and hope for a foul and (and 1). Why didn’t he depend on his jumper for the last second, and Killer instinct is not Lebron, Jordan and Kobe are not passing that ball to Delonte can’t shoot West for the last shot. Like I told yall before Magic in 6. this showed everything we Kobe fans have been saying, Lebron has to do it all, Kobe doesn’t so why would Kobe do it all. I blame this loss of Lebron, should have shot the ball, instead of driving hoping for foul call.

  • http://slamonline.com Spaceship Jay

    WHAT THE @$#% WAS THAT JUMP BALL AT THE END? LeBron is a great basketball player. But NEO from the frick’n Matrix?!? You know what, I think I’ll change the rules of a jump ball. Now I can stand on the same side of the line as the opposing player. GTFOH.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    The Seed fails again.
    1- He got Delonte two wide open shots. Those were very good shoot by a very good shooter (40% on 3s). I’ll live with that.
    2- You do know that Pax and Kerr won titles from MJ?
    3- You do know that Horry won titles for LA by taking similar shots?
    4- Are you seriously blaming a loss on someone with that stat line : 49 pts on 66% fg, 6 rbs, 8 assts, 3 blks, 2 stls? Like… FOR REAL?

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    I’m done arguing the Kobe-LeBron thing. At least with dudes like Myles or Bryan, it’s an actual discussion and not just ‘LeBron sucks! Kobe sucks!’ They will be two of the greatest players to ever play the game… the discussion is tired. (BTW, TD should be in that discussion for his whole body of work… 4 rings, 3 Finals MVP)

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    Z, dumb statements, I never seen Lebron hit shots like that tonight vs. Magic, Lebron should have kept the ball and shot before time ran out, Lebron can’t, I believe he was scared to hold and shoot.

  • chintao

    What about the discerning few who hate them both (plus MJ)?

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    Z, they lost, so Lebron stat line doesn’t matter. OK, you will then you new Lebron fans can get on the bandwagon, If Cavs would have won, Lebron is greatest ever, not today, maybe Lebron needs to take a page from Kobe’s book and guard someone instead of playing Skip to my Lou, Lebron hint hint guard Lewis next game or Hedo.

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    I’ll give it one more crack The Seed. You do realize that Bron played Skip because Mike Brown wanted to disrupt Orlando’s flow? Are you really suggesting that Bron can’t guard Lewis or Hedo? That’s why those discussions don’t amount to anything. OMG LEBRICK SUCKS! HE’S SO SCARED1

  • http://www.manutd.com Z

    I’m done. Seriously. The Seed, you win. I’ll just ignore your comments from now on.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    Z, they lost, just like the TNT guys said Lebron has to match up with one of them Lewis or Hedo and yes that bron playing skip worked in the first half, this is basketball and the second half it did not work and skip actually was going at Lebron and crossed him up, I never said Lebron sucks hes 2 right now, this game showed he was scared to hold the ball and shoot before time left all. I don’t think he has the guts.

  • http://www.galatasaray.org madamerica

    It was a great game to watch. Lebron couldn’t will his team to victory this time. It’s amazing how he got this team to 66 wins. Neat-o stat of the night: Hedo had 7 assists in the 4th quarter.

  • K

    Yeah, the guy who scored 29 of his team’s last 30 points in game 5 of the 07 ECF is scared to “hold the ball and shoot”. I shouldn’t be surprised to see the Kobe stans out in full force after that Cavs game. And don’t get me wrong, Kobe is the most skilled player in the L . . . but Lebron is the best, and one game doesn’t change that.

  • http://www.hibachi20.blogspot.com Hursty

    I didn’t even bother to read the bullsh*t on here after the first 10 or so posts. It was disgusting.

  • bill breedley

    the cramps ruse was a bigtime copout. without the homer calls sidelining superman this game would’ve been over in the third quarter. magic are for real. lakers should pray the cavs eliminate them. magic will rule the next 3 or 4 with superman.

  • BostonBaller

    You could switch the two and both teams would keep on going strong. Both are BEASTS but Bron is younger and stronger and Kobe is older and craftier. It depends on who you prefer…let the debate rage on. What if neither make it to the Finals? Stern would kill himself and the refs then blame vince mcmahon

  • bill breedley

    nbk let go of brons balls already. your boy is a fake. what kind of idiot allows nike to use a campaign like “witness”. so far i’ve been a witness to a spurs sweep in the finals. game 7 loss to fat paul pierce and constantly being outshined by kobe. even in the olympics is china no one wants to be a witness. no matter what the hype machine does he will never be an mj, kobe, magic or timmy.

    and that per discussion of yours? lame just like hollinger. its about the rings and nothing else.

    ring count of the greats ranking
    1. rus
    2. mj
    3. magic
    4. shaq
    5. timmy
    6. kobe

    bron? we are a witness to the greatest hype. he is good but stop squeezing his nuts too much til the guy wins something aside from the olympic medal dwade and kobe gave him

  • bill breedley

    superman will win more rings than bron when its all said and done.

  • Logan

    this is a debate that will go on for a few years…however, i find it a little crazy if the best player in the game is not the best ‘closer’ in the game…i mean West is saying that ‘Bron is a better player but come end game, he wants Kobe with the rock. Shouldn’t the best player in the game also be the best closer?
    I can understand why there is so much hype around Lebron. The guy is a beast. But let him win something first and then be the legit ‘King’ of the game….
    (The 3 rings that the Lakers won were a by product of Kobe AND Shaq. One would not have won without the other so lets give that ‘he ain’t ish without Shaq a rest’.)

  • bill breedley

    indeed. bron is the “best” in the game as karl malone was when he won the MVP over MJ. the best stats wise but 0 rings.

  • Logan

    heh I remember arguing with one of my friends when he said Malone was better than Jordan ‘that particular year’. When everything was said and done, MJ had the last word on that debate…I think its premature to crown Lebron. This is going to be a debate for the next 2-3 years at least. MJ was killing guys after he was 30 years old, no reason why Kobe should not be able to do the same. Less explosiveness, more efficiency and brains.
    btw, lets not sleep on the Magic…

  • Macgyever

    well,it can’t be a debate..lebron is easily the greatest..he’s a great shooter now,from three point line consistently since all-star break over 40% and for jumpers consistently over 50% for the past two months..i know americans IQ is known to be below 100 and you’re not been called the most stupid people for no reason,except the lebron fans..but what is it with kobe you guys are so in love,is it because he’s good looks and charm that you guys are drawn to him..i guarantee that 50% from male kobelovers would suck his d!/k!!seriously if kobe was as efficient as lebron consistently i would understand this kind of madness..

  • bill breedley

    easily. only a moron would say lebron is the greatest when he has yet to win squat. dude is not even half the player mj or timmy were in their prime. kobe will probably beat the magic this year because he just is so obsessed with getting another one. after that though it will be all magic. big men generally rule the L. mj and maybe kobe will be the exceptions.

    i personally see bron like a vince and tmac. everyone was hanging on their jocks before saying they would be better than mj and that kobe was not the player they were. where are they now? lebron is in this heap of over hyped players.

  • bill breedley

    btw. did you ever see magic, mj or kobe ever cramp up in a game…especially in a big one?

    major loser move and copout

  • Nashty

    Kobe is still the better player right now…..at least Lebron can prove other wise in the Finals.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    WOW… And he says this now? Its all Jerry’s scheme to get Kobe fired up and motivated this WCFs against Denver.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    LOL @ ciolkstar: Stop trying to use the Olympics as a base for comparison. Its irrelevant. Luis Scola played better than Carmelo Anthony in the Olympics… Is he better than Melo?

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    @ nbk: Oh really? LeBron has won more than Kobe? I forgot that LeBron’s won 4 championships, thanks.

  • bill breedley

    .. and do not forget that if it wasn’t for dwade and kobe, bron would not even have a gold medal. BSPN’s boy disappeared when it mattered most.

  • David Curran

    i reckon bron pasd him out last year,,,he jus wants it way more

  • bill breedley

    dwight is going to show everyone this is a big mans game. enough of this lame kobe vs. bron debate. when magic win game two, I say they finish this 4 games to 1. so much for hollinger’s PER. what a waste of braincells PER and +/- stats. final score is what it’s all about.

    Props to Melo and Billups. great game. joe dumars is an idiot. one for not selecting melo and two for trading away his best player in Billups

  • http://thatwillneverhappenquailyourretarted.com nbk

    Teddy Kobe has three championships A. And B- I said since LeBron entered the league. Stop typing if you can’t read.

  • rikson

    I dont think its fair to compare LeBron/Kobe to MJ (like some users did), as the handchecking-rule made it much(!!!) easier to drive -> And we all know thats the major part of LeBrons game. Thats why the league itroduced this rule! But I´m pretty sure that the King would have its problems with the old rules…

  • Mrdozit

    Alwayz Benn a lakers Fan Since the early 80s.Live N chicago So u know we had plenty parties N the 90s Mj & co. Kobe iz da man hes my Fav, plyr No doubt, BUT>>>>>>>>>. u know how mike u 2 come 2 different cities and No matter wer he played Fans from opposing teamsluved him thats How Lebron iz every wer he goes u gotta see him, Bron bout 2 take over the league like mike Did,Hes da CHIT!!!!!!! Worth the Admission Bron gonna hold it down 4 yrs 2 come, He got some comp coming N the league this yr N blake griff,hes big like bron strong 2 thats gonna B the match up 2 see Just wait ,2 pac,,,,,,

  • Justin

    The comparisons are ridiculous. Kind of tough for LeBron to have 3 titles when he’s only been in the league 4 years. So comparinng the two based on titles RIGHT now is dumb. Compare their skills when LeBron is Kobe’s age, or has played as many years. As for whether Jordan could guard these guys, I think you forget just how quick and strong Jordan was. I suggest you go to YouTube, type in hoopsencyclopedia-Michael Jordan and relive the best player to ever play, and will ever play

  • Chris C

    Maybe when Kobe retires, the world will understand why he is the best there is. Lebron is the best ATHLETE in the NBA not the best basketball player. That’s what people don’t understand, he’s a great player no doubt. But, dont’t misconstrue athletisism with skill. to say lebron is a better player than kobe is to say: to get where he is today, lebron has worked harder on his game than kobe has. But it won’t be until Kobe retires, will people actually understand.

  • truthteller

    LeBron is clearly chasing Kobe and his accomplishments. Just think about it, everything that the media is celebrating about LeBron, Kobe’s already done that.

  • Joshua Holder

    Lebron is 23, has never played with a shaq, and has already passed kobe in triple doubles. kobe is getting to the end of his greatness, no matter how much you whining laker fans want to deny it(cause i know yall whine, if kobe does it yall do it cough*Bandwagon*cough). Second, MVP Lebron James. Third, i don’t care if you score all day long, you still aren’t the greatest. Kobe, yeah he’s a great player but Lebron is already starting to become better.
    And for those of you who think kobe is the best are idiots!!! COMON! REALLY?!?!
    2 words MICHAEL JORDAN! Greatest of all time no contest. 6 for 6. Anyone remember the last time kobe won 6 championships and didnt lose in any finals? I don’t think so.

  • Desmond

    ok im a lebron fan and if i saw a sheet that said kobe bryant averaged more PPG, RPG,APG, and is #2 best defensive player then i would say yes kobe is better than lebron BUT thats not the case lebron has more of everything except 3 pointers and foul shots and we all know kobe gets every call and kobe cant win a championship with out shaq. kobe may have more rings but thats TEAM accomplishment and shaq did better than kobe in all of them. lebrons only 23 and lebron has surpassed kobe in everything except rings. There is a reason for STATS and lebron wins. MJ and jerry west agree lebrons better. KOBE FANS EXCEPT IT ur preciouse little ball player isnt the best o and lets not forget that every time kobe fouls he cries about it for 5 min like he never fouls…. 2002 was rigged any way game 6 lakers vs kings…. kings won it so kobe should only have 2 rings google that crap. …….LEBRON 2008-2009 MVP. we da best

  • alex

    i have to dissaggre with mr. west hes old and crazzy! kobe is still better and i think hes over his prime! lebron at his prime(now) and kobe at his prime (acouple years ago) landslide! KOBE!

  • alex

    truthteller said it best!

  • cassie

    to all u f**** kobe fans that decided to post a comment on this article suck it up b***** we all know whos the best… i mean come on kobe has this way of hypnotizing u ppl to the point where u follow him everywhere but the funny part is one of the greatest players jerry west even says it i mean im lost for words man the truth shall set u free i mean was kobe even this good at 24 nah dont think so

  • JBO

    Well you know what, I bet Jerry is going to change his mind about Lebron right now.LOL

  • JBO

    To Desmond,well your wrong. Jordan said Kobe is better than Lebron liar.
    Now jordan is permantely right forever about kobe being better than Lebron.Queen James rather piggy back ride instead of winning it as the leader and the best player of his team.Watch lebron fans defend him.Even though MJ never ran to the Lakers or Celtics because he couldn’t win.LOL

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