Tuesday, June 2nd, 2009 at 4:17 pm  |  250 responses

SLAM 130: On Sale Now!

This time we picked the right #23.

by Tzvi Twersky

About eight Fridays ago, an editorial meeting took place at the SLAM Dome. The task at hand: creating a “50 Greatest Players of All-Time” list. Yeah, we’ve done it before, in both SLAM 19 and a special “Top 75” issue that came out in 2003, but a lot has changed since then. A whole generation of ball players—SLAM’s generation of players, really—has played enough seasons and collected enough stats to now be included in the “Top 50” convo. Da Kid, The Answer, Black Mamba—the list goes on. So when the opportunity to remix and remaster our lists of old arose, we just couldn’t resist the temptation.

Creating the concept was pretty easy, agreeing on the 50 was not. One Thursday afternoon, we sat around a conference room table for hours, poring over stats, ratios and all kinds of graphs. But, at the same time, we tried our best not to turn NBA greats into heaps of digits and equations. At day’s end, throats sore from arguing players’ cases, I think we managed to keep our respective perspectives while whittling the list down to 50. Now I don’t think everyone will be happy. Some Hall of Famers were left out, and some players on the list may surprise you (Dennis is my only hint). But at the least, this list is damn well thought out—and no one was omitted by accident. Thanks to Ben, Lang, Susan, Ryne, Khalid, Russ, Konate, Matt and others, the list was finalized, and the result is this cover and accompanying feature included in the issue, which boasts well-written pieces on all 50 players. It should serve as the perfect basketball edutainment, served up at the perfect time: the NBA Finals, when the greats solidify their legacies like Mike did six memorable times.

If you read SLAM (and why would you be here if you didn’t?) then you know that the cover choice was obvious. Mike is to modern basketball what Jack Dorsey is to the Twitter. That is, he created it as it exists today. Michael Jordan is basketball. Period.

Now MJ has been out of the game for a while already—has it been six years, and 11 since his last year as a Bull?!?—but his impact hasn’t lessened. The difference between him and most—who are forgotten by the next TV-timeout—is like the difference between a masterpiece and a solid work of art: One piece, the decent piece, is respected and valued while it “plays,” but its value and peoples’ familiarity with it fades, decreasing incrementally over time. The other work of art, the masterpiece, it has all eyes in the room on it while it “plays,” and shows timeless resiliency afterward, increasing in beauty, value and fame long after the artist is gone. Jordan is that masterpiece—oh, and surprise, surprise, he’s our No. 1. Who filled out the rest of the list? Well you have to read the ish and find out. Folks in the Big Apple, you should see it by Friday. Rest of the country and subscribers, next week. We’re a little early but you all know we like to get the buzz going. Plus, this place will be in serious Finals mode by Thursday so we figured we’d start the MJ hype early.

Between bouts of bickerin’ in the Dome over the “Top 50,” we still managed to find time to give paper nods in this issue to the streets (Booger Smith), the latest news (Jeremy Tyler), the Draft (Jordan Hill) and the NBA Playoffs (Ben Gordon). Between all that and more, Issue 130 should have something for everyone.

SLAM 130

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  • listless

    I’m fed up of reading lists for two reasons;
    1) I hate reading lists
    2) I hate reading lists

    Whats the obsession with listing everything these days? top ten this, top 5 that, top 20 blah blah blah.
    Just to add 5 or 6 guys from this generation to a ‘new’ top 50. Mental.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    How many times have you watched Walt play, AR? I may be a young’n, but I know SOME stuff, pal.

  • Pardeep

    @JUKAI: AI 27th?. Truly Jukai loves players who are marketed by the NBA as good boys and dont have to many tattoos and dont change the game and dont bring hip hop to the game. Find me a player 5 foot 11 that Won 4 scoring titles averaged 27 ppg for his career along with 6 assists has roughly 24 000 points, 5500 assists, 3 steals titles, 10 time all star, Many many ALL NBA selections,NBA MVP, He once averaged 33 ppg and 7 assists and never won the scoring title because of the best player in the world in Kobe Bryant, He averaged over 30 ppg many times He took the sh*tiest team to the finals and unlike LeBron he won a game. Hes done things in his career stat wise that Kobe has not done. Then you say NO CHAMPIONSHIP? Oviously you aint gonna win a title when your 2nd option is like Eric Snow. Think of former NBA championship teams the Bulls- Jordan,Pippen, Lakers-Kobe,Shaq, Spurs- Duncan,Parker,Ginobli,Robinson was with Duncan too.Pistons- Had 4 all stars, Celtics-Big 3. Allen Iverson never had a Scottie Pippen or another big star and MELO does not count that was just a bad fit because they both score. and no Detroits whole team was out of their best days when he got there. Other than the Big 3 who will probably never win one again all the stars won titles when they were in their Prime or at their Peaks, Iverson never had such stars in his prime in Philly even if he had one star he wouldev got his. If everyone blames LeBrons supporting cast for him losing. Trust me A.I.’s supporting cast was much worse. No one says anything good about A.I. because they hate braids, tats, hip hop and a “thug”. No more than 5 players in the L would say I dont want A.I.’s career.

  • Pardeep

    ^ A.I. a lock for top 20 if not top 15. His career is super succesful.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    @ Pardeep: Totally agreed. Also, you should mention the fact that Allen Iverson is second ALL-TIME in career points per game, trailing only Michael Jordan. Yes, ahead of Elgin Baylor. Yes, ahead of the Stilt. Yes, ahead of LeBron. Yes, ahead of Jerry West. You all get the point.
    IVERSON TOP 20.
    Not to mention the 6 assists he’s been averaging per game, EVERY single playoffs.

  • Pardeep

    For sure theres to many A.I. haters

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Also, @ Jukai: Where’s Badboy Bill Laimbeer on your list?

  • nba kid

    yeah iverson got to the finals, but what was the competition? I mean honestly, the eastern conf finals were against milwaukee. Milwaukee? I mean ai vs ray allen is not exactly a difficult matchup for iverson. Stockton is the career leader in assists and steals. Sorry ai but you can’t get there no matter how hard you try.

  • http://sdklf.com Jukai

    We get it– Iverson was an INCREDIBLE scorer. Unless you have a better reason for me to bump Iverson up, I’m not doing it. Iverson would KILL stockton in a game of horse. Now, what qualities does Stockton have over Iverson? Leadership, court vision, passing, one-on-one defense, defensive disruption (averaging over 3 assists four times in his career!!!!), tempo control, team chemistry, adaption, the ability to defer, and most importantly, the ability to dominate without scoring. Something that Iverson has never been able to do.
    Of course Iverson has all those scoring records. It’s the only thing he is good at. His legendary scoring is good enough to make it in the top-30 all time, but c’mon… that is his PEAK. I thought about moving him down, and if you had seen him play for the Nuggets or Pistons, you’d think about moving him down too.
    Being 5’11 means absolutely NOTHING to me. Great, the skill needed to score like he does around the basket at 5’11 is amazing. If he was 6’5, he’d probably be in my top 20. He’s not, soooo….
    Also, Bill Laimbeer deserves to be on the list as much as Parish does. Meaning, he doesn’t. There’s actually about another 30-40 guys I’d put on the list before Laimbeer.

  • http://sdklf.com Jukai

    I mean, if you REALLY think Iverson was a better player than Stockton, you were born 1990 and only started watching basketball in 2000. It’s inconceivable to me, it’s like saying “Isiah Thomas, he was good, but that Michael Redd guy woulda murdered him!”

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    LOL @ Jukai. I’ve seen Stockton play, thanks. Iverson is better.
    Stockton was a great passer and a great defender, and a great leader. Hall of Fame.
    Iverson is a great scorer, good passer (6-7 assists per game his whole career).
    Iverson lead his team to the finals, nearly BY HIMSELF, WITHOUT a Karl Malone. You apparently don’t realize how much of a difference having a Karl Malone-type big man makes. Stockton was never the number 1 guy on the Jazz.
    In short: How many MVP’s has Stockton won?

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Jukai, apparently you also missed a playoff series in which Allen Iverson averaged 30 points and 10 assists per game. With the type of team he had? I’d say he’s a pretty good passer.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Well, its your list, so whatever lol. I just hope SLAM does the right thing…

  • MSkittle

    Best 23 ballers of the last 20 years.

    1. Jordan
    2. Prime Shaq
    3. Prime Hakeem (94 and 95)
    4. Kobe
    5. Lebron
    6. D Wade
    7. Prime Iverson (30 ppg for years being 6’0. Hard to win with him though).
    6. Bird (he was past his prime when I saw him)
    7. Magic (he was past his prime when I saw him)
    8. Karl Malone
    9. Tim Duncan
    10. Clyde Drexler
    11. Dominique Wilkins
    12. Prime T Mac (his prime didn’t last long enough)
    13. Patrick Ewing
    14. Barkley
    15. Prime Shawn Kemp
    15. Prime Chris Webber (Sacramento days)
    16. Prime Penny Hardaway
    17. David Robinson
    18. Amare’s One Series Wonder (37 ppg, 14 rpg against Tim Duncan in 2005)
    19. Reggie Miller
    20. Stockton (stats, longevity, feistiness.. Game wasn’t that impressive to watch).
    21. Vince Carter (Toronto years)
    22. Tim Hardaway (Golden State and Miami years)
    23. Dirk Nowitzki (milennium Bird Mane. He just needs to win more and be more clutch).

  • Dave

    @ Dr NICK: “i could rattle off 50 european players from this decade over the shoe-seller right now”
    You’re right. You’re absolutely right.
    And the only reason Iverson managed to go to the Finals, score and steal so much, get so may MVP votes and win so many games, not to mention kill so many players one-on-one is because all those feats are achieved by selling shoes.
    There are fifty guys who played in Europe who could do all that if only they were magically transported into the 2-guard spot on the 76ers roster in ’96 instead of AI.
    My bad. I’m stupid. You’re totally right.

  • http://sdklf.com Jukai

    Teddy-the-Bear: Okay, sit down kid. Let me tell you about Stockton.
    Iverson had one Finals appearence. Other then that, the dude didn’t have much success in the playoffs in his career. Mostly first round exits, some years not making it at all. Russ once said that Iverson getting to the NBA Finals was the worst thing that could ever happen in Iverson’s career, and I agree: dude never learned to play off the ball, to spot up shoot, to defer to other stars, to defend. Why bother, when you can take control of the ball and just obliterate another team, right? But when Iverson should have been doing that 75-85% of the time, he wind up doing it 90-95% of the time and teams became dependent to Iverson, and that contributed to only being able to win in certain situations. He’s a glorified Steve Nash, if you will. Steve Nash won two MVPs, by the way, so if Iverson is better than Stockton for one, Nash kills them both.
    But I digress, let me tell you about John Stockton, the dude who never missed the playoffs in all 19 seasons of his career… the dude who made it to the conference finals seven times, and made it to the NBA Finals twice, both times losing to the Bulls in tough matchups that usually went down to the wire. You think Iverson is a warrior playing through injuries? Stockton missed 22 games -HIS ENTIRE CAREER.- That’s toughness. Especially since Stockton was a VERY physical player, tough man-to-man defense, taking it to the rim to draw contact, and SCREEN setting (which Jerry Sloan said was his most important skillset, something that very few people realized, he would set screens for MALONE). So off the ball, Stockton was a deadly spotup shooter (shooting 40% from the three some years), and a FANTASTIC screener: abilities that Iverson never developed his entire career.
    But let’s look at Stockton on the ball. Not only is it INSANE that a point guard is a career 51% shooter (way over the Answer) but, incase you didn’t know, Stockton was the BEST PASSER EVER.
    Most assists ever in total, second most per game. He holds five of the top six assist seasons in the NBA, along with the first in total (1,164) and per game (14.5). He has had 34 games of twenty or more assists. Jason Kidd has two, incase yer wondering. Oh, and these acolades were all done IN THE HALF-COURT. While Magic was running and pushing the tempo, Stockton was averaging three more assists walking the ball up the court. Insane.
    Oh, he also had a couple of assists over his career (I think somewhere around 3000?)
    So, yeah, you can keep thinking Iverson is a better player. But in reality, he’s HALf the player Stockton is. It’s really insane you think this.

  • http://sdklf.com Jukai

    *he also had a couple of steals in his career

  • http://www2.gsb.columbia.edu/faculty/jstiglitz/ NICK KALATHES

    SLAMONLINE: “where you need over 1000 words to explain why Stocton is over A.I.”

  • http://sdklf.com Jukai

    Feel free to jump in, Spanny.

  • Jake C

    Nice preview Tzvi. AI top 20 no doubt

  • larrylegend

    the chief?! please! most games EVER played, best defender against kareem, and he knocks down laimbeer…what more you can ask for?????? (i know it’s printed already…)
    stockton over ai is a no brainer, even stock was the dirtiest player ever!

  • http://sdklf.com Jukai

    Actually, Kareem said Gilmore was the best defender he ever played against, but keep making things up bro.

  • larrylegend

    you could be right…best defender on the highest stage, able to deny him another chip?

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    @ Jukai: Stockton had Malone. Stockton wasn’t #1, even on his own team. Put Stockton on that Philly team, subtract Allen Iverson.
    That Philly team wouldn’t have gotten past the first round, maybe even missing the playoffs.
    AGAIN: How many MVP’s has John Stockton won?

  • http://fjsdklf.com Jukai

    Teddy: Cool, ignore my Steve Nash comment, that’s fine. Do you think Steve Nash is better than Iverson?
    To answer your question: yes, probably, if you subtract Iverson and add Stockton to the 2000 Phili team, it would not make it past the second round of the playoffs. Then again, subtract Stockton and add Iverson to the Utah Jazz team, and they would have even LESS success. Malone was the go-to guy on offense, but Stockton WAS the number one guy in that he was the vocal leader of the team, he had the ball in his hands when it was crutch time and HE decided when it was time to give the ball up to Malone and for Malone to score.
    Adding Iverson on the Utah Jazz would have pretty much ended 19 straight years of playoff appearances. If you think Iverson destroyed the Pistons, good lord, either Malone would have strangled him or Sloan would have shot him.
    Iverson is a better scorer and pretty much nothing else.

  • T.

    I’m not sure but with all the Iverson hate, I think Nick Kalathes is Rip Hamilton. Anywho. I will hold judgement on the list until I see where Bill Russell, Kevin Garnett (ESPECIALLY since he has a ring now) and Clyde Drexler fall. Dope cover though.

  • Pardeep

    @Teddy: Everyone knows you and me are right about Iverson. Jukai truly a hater hates A.I’s image and dont like the hip hop culture he brings so he disses his game Stockon and Iverson are no where near eachother neither is Nash there was a lot and I mean ALOT of politics involved in those two MVPs. I already told up top why A.I. never won just read my comment. Stockon is not better than A.I. the hardest thing to do in the game is score and A.I. did that consistently for so so long. Hes done everything in the league at such a small height and theres no way Stockton could do things A.I. did on the court. A.I. could have had like 3 rings easily if things went his way he needed another guy that could give him even 18 ppg consistently a guy that could cause other team problems and he would have single handedly lead the Sixers to the title. A.I. took a SH*T team to the finals with no one. Individually A.I. is one of the best ever the things hes done at that size with that much negative things going on with him its preety amazing I dont no antoher player that could do that. Let JUKAI hate ive noticed this guy is obsessed with hating on AI theres a lot of other like him so w.e. END OF THE DAY AI IS ONE OF THE GREATEST. TOP 20 EVER.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    LOL @ Jukai: Iverson was not what sunk Detroit. And if people believe that, which they do, I’m not one of them. And I’m pretty sure Iverson on that Jazz team would have faired decently, at least making it past the first 1 or 2 rounds of the playoffs.
    We agree to disagree, I guess.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Co-sign Pardeep. Right on. Stockton is definitely great, but I’m not changing my stance on Iverson.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Let’s discuss another one, Jukai: Why Tim over Shaq? (which I pretty much agree with). Why Dream over Bill Russell?

  • Superman_Osman

    Sh*t! Even digital I can’t get the damn ish early…*sigh*

  • BIG Z

    @jukai’s list there are 3 things wrong with youre list (1 KG is not the 19th greatest player of all time. yes he has a great career but there are players with more distinguished careers than his. (2 as great a player lebron is he dosent deserve a top 20 a spot maybe in another 6 years when grows up and can shake an opponets hand + whens a championship. and (3 why oh why is cp3 #46 and steve nash isnt even on youre list. NASH has 2 mvp awards 6X all star led the L is apg for 3 years 3x 1st team all nba and i think the best PG of my generation and oner pf the greatest shooters of all time. p.s. cp3 is 1000 X better than iverson he is the same size but has more assists rebs steals and can score 40 any time he wants. cp3 does not seserve no.46 tho

  • http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/jaeniko JMac

    Any cover that has MJ on it is a great cover for me!

  • truthteller

    JMac,
    I agree with you on that!

  • andrew

    i am waiting for another insane issue of slam.my top 10 list is:
    1.jordan
    2.johnson
    3.bird
    4.chamberlain
    5.russel
    6.robertson
    7.abdul jabaar
    8.olajuwon.
    9.erving
    10.o”neal or bryant

  • andrew

    i am sure that this issue will be one of the best issues i own

  • Michael

    Iverson over Isiah? Nah money.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    Big Z, I was about to agree with you until I realized just how stupid your comment about Chris Paul over Iverson was. Clearly you just started watching basketball this year.

  • Dave

    While I think Iverson is one of the best players of the last twenty years (except in Europe, where he would have been lucky to score 65ppg career average, which is extremely low for the Euro game), I think I might take Stockton if I was picking my team.
    Primarily because I’d have Wilt standing there with his giant paw calling for it 30 times a game and would want SOMEONE to throw it to him.

  • Quail

    Wilt was the best individual player of all time. dont argue. Michael Jordan had the most success because of the team he had. Wilt was the best individual.

  • Quail

    nice list by the way Jukai. only thing i see wrong is no George Mikan.

  • ian

    It has been too long since the GOAT graced your cover.
    Thank You!

  • TexMex0

    I’m french and don’t understand how the August issue of Slam can already be on sale. Can somebody light me up on this?

  • ai4evaaa

    please! ai! lets make a comback! miss ur anklebrakers! haha

  • Taranvir

    has it come to Canada yet, cause im a subscriber and i havent got it yet.

  • fuddie

    It is fitting that the GOAT (greatest player of all time) would be pasted all over last ish. I haven’t got it yet either.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wesley21

    Why isn’t DWade at least in the low 40s?

  • Alex

    Lebrons gotta be on the cover hes the next greatest player

    all he needs is a little help like jordan!

  • andrew

    i am a subscriber for 10 months and i have not received any issues yet

  • http://SLAM.COM Zach

    MY TOP 50 PLAYERS OF ALL TIME-#50 JULIUS ERVING #49 JASON TERRY #48 STEVE NASH #47 BEN WALLACE #46 Tony Parker #45 GILBERT AREANS #44 MR BIG SHOT #43 MELO #42 VINCE CARTER #41 AMARE STOUDAMIRE #40 C-WEB #39 KEVIN GARNET #38 RAY ALLEN #37 RICHARD JEFFERSON #36 JOE DUMARS #35 Hakeem Olajuwon #33 TIM HARDWAY # 32 THE ICEMAN #31 DIRK- GERAMN-NOTEI DONT KNOW HOW TO SPELLHIS LAST NAME-#30 JASON KIDD #29 BENARD KING #28 REGGIE MILLER #27 SPUD WEBB #26 ELGIN BAYLOR #25 BOB COUSY #24 ELTON BRAND #23 CHARLES BARKLEY #22 SCOTTIE PIPPEN #21 DENNIS RODMAN #20 WILLIS UNSLED #19 LARRY BIRD #18 BILL WALTON #17 DWIGHT HOWARD #16 DWAYNE WADE #15 YAO MING #14 DENNIS JOHNSON #13 KARL MALONE #12 JOHN STOCKTON #11 LEBRON JAMES #10 SHAQ #9 ERVIN MAGIC JOHNSON #8 ALLEN IVERSON #7 JAMES WORTHY #6 CLYDE DREXLER #5 MOSES MALONE #4 KAREEM ABDUL JABBAR #3 KOBE BRYANT #2 WILT CHAMBLERIAN #1 MICHAEL JORDAN

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