Tuesday, August 28th, 2012 at 5:18 pm  |  120 responses

Kobe Bryant vs Michael Jordan: Identical Plays (VIDEO)

Kobe may have picked up a move or two… or more… from the GOAT.

Since Michael Jordan hung up his sneakers, Kobe Bryant has produced the game and skill set most similar to Air Jordan. But I don’t think anybody realized it was this similar. Check out the video to see some stunning MJ/Kobe similarities on the floor.

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  • http://twitter.com/Lacville_79 Back Of My Lac

    MJ was Kobe’s idol growing up so OF Course he patterned his game after MJ…..I never had a problem with it……..If you was a Teen in the 90′s like I was MJ was the person you looked up to if you played basketball..

  • shawnkemp4prez

    Must we compare these two every week? Both are phenomenal, once-in-a-generation talents. Prime Michael vs Prime Kobe vs Prime Lebron vs Prime Oscar Robertson….these hypotheticals need to stop. Bill Russell has ELEVEN rings, maybe he should be in this discussion, too. It can go on and on…

  • Dagger

    I stopped listening 31 seconds in. Hyperbolic statements about Kobe’s skill, or his career, exceeding Michael’s are so 2006. Does anyone really believe that nonsense anymore?

  • lanomac

    wow thats some crazy ish

  • airs

    although most of these were just routine jumpshots set to dramatic music that im sure many other players have made in the NBA, that was kind of interesting to watch.
    well kind of.

  • Jer dawg

    I like it! I do like how these media types are talking and hyping Lebron as possibly being better than Jordan. Now it makes them more idiotic than ever. I always felt Kobe is almost splitting image of Jordan, but it’s better now not hearing it from the media. People Will debate after Kobe hangs it up. Then i HOPE there will only be 2 players on the pantheon of ELITE: Jordan and Bryant. Just my opinion. I’m not old enough to remember the 50s

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Who didn’t MJ influence in the late 80s and throughout all of the 90s? We need to remember that Kobe was in Italy for a chunk of his childhood. His grandparents sent him Cosby Show tapes and MJ games. He patterned his game after him. When he got back to Philly, I’m sure acting like an Italian kid wasn’t the best thing for a young Black kid to do. So it’s plausible that he figured since he didn’t grow up in Philly really or in the U.S. period, he’d mimic the guy he admired. Also, plenty of people tried to pattern their games after MJ I’m sure…only one was halfway successful.

  • http://twitter.com/SupermanayrB B!

    Move would be dumb not to learn a move or 12 from Mike. That’s like being a backup dancer for MIchael Jackson & not being able to Moonwalk.

  • OTB

    Kobe didn’t idolize MJ, he idolized Magic. Also, and this is a general comment, but there was nothing “identical” about the video. Both were using moves reacting to the defense. Sure, Kobe has some of the that MJ does, but I’m sure you can find Michael Finley, Jerry Stackhouse, Vince Carter, T-Mac, etc with the exact same moves if you look hard enough for it. Lastly, Kobe has some moves in his repotoire offensively that MJ didn’t have (and vice versa). Let’s just conclude that they are both offensive wizards and leave it at that.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    blah blah blah
    - Kobe Bryant on the Dan Patrick Show “there is no Kobe Bryant without Michael Jordan”

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    how anyone can watch Kobe Bryant throughout his career and not see that he obviously patterned his game after Michael Jordan is beyond me. — Maybe Michael wasn’t his favorite player, but he definitely patterned his game after him. Which isn’t a bad thing, its obviously served him well.

  • VanCityBBall

    if i were Kobe i wouldnt try to be like MJ that much… at the end of his career he should try to be the only Kobe Bryant not the guy that came close to being MJ or better… im not saying that he shouldnt watch tapes and take some notes but i think it would be better this way

  • brian scalabrine

    they had the same coach and ran the same offense. therefore they are guna get the ball in similar spots. if anyone played in this scenario they would end up making alot of the same moves

  • GRAD


  • LakeShow

    It is interesting how Kobe has been the only player to successfully mimic Michael.
    It’s only been a decade or so since Mike left though so we will see more ‘like Mike’.
    Question is, will someone become more like mike than Kobe?

  • Slick Ric


  • OTB

    I understand that. Obviously, he mimicked some of his moves and patterned his game after him as he grew older, but I wouldn’t call their repetoires identical. A lot of players have fadeaway jumpshots, and use similar footwork.

  • OTB

    And actually, there’s a video of Kobe that used to be on NBA.com where he talked about how he took moves from guys like Jerry West, Oscar, Hakeem, to MJ. His moves-list is a composite of a lot of players, but it mostly focuses on MJ (and rightly so).

  • Red Star

    Anyone who doesn’t think Kobe based his game on Jordan’s is a fool! Google Kobe wearing a Jordan jersey. LMFAO, Kobe has broken Jordan’s game down to a science!

  • TNDO

    Kobe has that mean streak that nobody else has had since Jordan.
    Kobe has always been comPared to
    Jordan becuz he is the only one at this point that really deserves it
    For now ( Lbj )

  • Poster_boy

    That was just a video showing them taking jump shots from the same spots on the floor.

  • Redd


  • Redd

    That’s the thing Jordan will influence the next wave of superstars still with what he did and his Jordan Brand success, he’s rooted himself into basketball. Kobe will never accomplish the same to that degree.

  • OTB

    Exactly my point. You can find plenty of shooting guards doing the same thing if you look hard enough. Their body movements weren’t similar at all – each has their own distinct style. Kobe has a lot of MJ’s moves, but I wouldn’t call his rep. “identical”.

  • OTB

    Not sure what’s funny. He’s stated in numerous interviews he idolized Magic growing up. He patterned his game after Jordan cause Jordan had his body type/playing style, but that video shows nothing about “identical” moves, it shows two players taking jumpshots from similar areas on the floor. Again, I agree that Kobe has a lot of Jordan’s moves, but this video is not really conclusive that they are “identical”. Bryant has a lot of moves that are quite distinguished from anything MJ did. I’m not saying that as a knock or a comparison, I’m saying it to establish the uniqueness of the two players.

  • Max

    There will never ever be another Scalabrine
    That’s for sure, you can book that if you want to.
    MJ+Kobe = SCAL
    He wears MJ’s jersey and Kobe’s number at the same time.

  • Matisse

    I can imagine the future crop of players that are going to have the same aesthetic similarities as Bean Bryant. They’ll have the excessive jab steps, pump fakes, head fakes, the penchant to heave fadeaway after fadeaway over triple teams, ( and actually nailing some of those impossible shots) hell, even that stupid jaw face that Kobe does every once in a while will be mimicked.

  • The Seed

    Kobe has had the best career to me since MJ, with winning, flare for the dramatics, heartbreak and Rings. Like MJ stated Kobe is comparable. People don’t understand, MJ loves Kobe game and they talk all the time. Kobe has done alot in this league and is still going. I can’t wait for him to get 6th then the WORLD will go CRAZY!!

  • Redd

    Kobe tried to copy what Jordan did in about every way, but he wanted to do it even better which u have to respect. Too bad he didn’t though.

  • Redd

    Um no…he’ll have won with 3 other all-stars(2 superstars), his comparison is no longer valid to MJ.

  • Ugh

    Saying Kobe is a better shooter than Michael is pretty ridiculous. Kobe’s three has been more consistent across his career, but his shot selection is woeful. Bleacher Report has a good article on comparing their shot efficiency.

  • http://twitter.com/_DFrance DFrance

    I doubt it. Kobe has it ALL down. Not just the skills on the court, but the walk, the way he talks in interviews. Its really uncanny.

  • Cluna

    Kobe obviously patterned his game after MJ and many other great players ( west, Baylor, Oscar to name a few) since when is it frowned upon to progressively improve your game year after year. At 34, kobe will be doing things incomparable by anyone to EVER play the game. Love em or hate em Kobe is the best player Of his generation since Mj.. Stop thinking Kobe’s career will somehow diminish MJ’s accomplishments

  • theDankerNuggets

    This isn’t that crazy when you take into account that they had the same coach and same offense

  • http://twitter.com/ec_lkhaa Will Lee

    thats why they need a better offense!

  • flea

    It’s debatable weather MJ’s offensive skill set was superior to Kobe’s in “every way” for example: footwork, and ability to create, specifically from mid range and beyond. I think lazy fans tend to just lump “everything” Kobe has done in his career as mere mimicry. The skills i mentioned above not only stand out as major aspects of kobe’s game throughout his career, but are also areas were he has put his own mark, and will leave an imprint on the game as a whole.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Tim Duncan is the best player since MJ.

  • Kadavour

    What?? Money won rings with Pip and Worm. Two of the greatest defenders of All Time. They had the ability to cover all positions defensively. Rodman averaged 18 REBS in a season. Pip is the quintessential glue guy and probably the best two way player ever. It’s intellectually dishonest to diminish the abilities of these men and the importance of their contributions to some of those championship teams for the sake of an argument against Kobe’s legacy.

  • Redd

    Only Rodman was traded in, how many all stars did Kobe get traded in? Same thing u guys were saying about LBJ.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003136871444 Ito Murakami

    dope video. http://wesellblow.com/
    Instagram: @wesellblow
    Twitter: @blow_clothing @wesellblow

  • shucky_ducky

    yeah, stay away from plays at the rim, cuz there’s no comparison. MJ all day. But Kobe did a great job at ripping his game

  • Caboose

    This was utterly pathetic. SLAM, it’s disgraceful to put up something this biased. C’mon, Kobe is not close to MJ. You guys know that.

  • Cluna

    KObe has outgrown all his rivals.. Is Duncan even considered a top 10 PF anymore? Let’s be real

  • JaeRod tha Prince

    Hip Hop fans. Don’t miss this! http://youtu.be/oWgBW1MI7oQ

  • datkid

    explain. lol.

  • datkid

    they play in the same system w/ the sane coach. plus some of those moves are things every scorer does. i don’t see it, personally.

  • Flight

    I remember when Kobe won his fourth in 09 that Jordans own kids were tweeting that Kobe celebrated like MJ did in 92 by jumping on the scorers table…to me when you have Jordans own children riled up you are pulling on the cape. In the next 2 seasons Kobe will win two more rings and score another 3500 points to surpass Jordan in regular season points aswell as All-star points, playoff points, and rings. Then this argument will finally be put to rest and Jordan will prove prophetic when he said in 98 “Evolution knows no bounds, in time there will be a player far greater then me”.

  • wes

    People are always saying Tim Duncan is the best player of the 2000′s or the best since Mike but uh Kobe has more rings and better stats than Kobe

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Not saying they are identical, but nobody has ever played as similarly to (mainly after 1st retirement) Michalel Jordan. Calling them identical is ridiculous, but Kobe’s game is definitely based on Jordan’s. Which is of course, not a bad player to mimmick.

  • Drig

    I don’t honestly see it. While they managed to put up the shots from similar locations over similar defenders, the style is different for both of them :

  • Pardeep

    Someone argue with me on this……Jordan’s era was not as athletic as Kobe’s which means it was harder to get around players, yeah hand checking was aloud but the athletic ability of players is much more than it was in Jordans era…..Which is why I think Kobe is better as a individual player, if you take all the awards away, stats, I think Kobe is better.

  • http://twitter.com/kimhargreaves Kim Hargreaves

    Kobe obviously has patterned his game after MJs (and why would’nt you?) and he’s the closest we’ve seen so far, this video just highlights that. Personally I prefer D Wades game, but that’s just me.

  • The Seed

    Kobe has done things after 30, only one other player as a shooting guard compare and that’s MJ. Kobe will get another ring. People need to stop acting like MJ, Larry, Magic did not play with Hall of Famers. Actually Kobe has played with 1 maybe 2, Shaq-Gasol maybe mainly for internaitonal career. Nash is a HoFamer and Howard will be. Thats only 4 maybe 3, if Gasol gets in. Larry played with 4 or more, Magic played with 4 or more and MJ played with 2. The league was different when MJ played, its more athelitc now, more players who can score, and play the game faster. MJ is the greatest no doubt, but to act like Kobe has not had the greatest career since MJ, is dumb, when he has been voted player of the decade by publications and sports network. Kobe won in Lebron’s prime, right and now has a chance to have more rings than Lebron in this decade. Kobe got one, Lebron got one. Dirk does not matter. If Kobe gets 2 more and Lebron just gets one. Kobe has a chance to won two decades as one the best players, but through the 2000′s Kobe was the best, with AI, Tim, Garnett, and a few years of Tmac and vince playing at a high level trying to get his throne. All have left and Kobe is still standing.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Kobe won 2 as the best player on his team. Duncan has 4 as the best player. Meaning that for all of his championships, he was the main guy. Duncan is perhaps the best power forward in the history of basketball. 20 and 11 for his career. A few seasons of 22 and 12. Kobe has better stats including what? Shot attempts and PPG? That’s all Kobe has on Duncan. Scoring isn’t everything.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Outgrown how? Duncan’s legacy is set. 4 rings as the best player. Kobe will end up having 2. Shaq was the main guy on Kobe’s first 3 and Howard will be the main guy if he wins any more. Duncan isn’t the best PF in basketball now, but I’d say being that guy for 12 years (which he was) is enough to solidify his legacy. Since 98-99, no player has been as great as Duncan. Two MVPs to Kobe’s 1. 3 championships in 5 seasons as the best player on his team. If we’re being real, what Duncan is now doesn’t matter compared to what he’s been since he’s been in the league.

  • Hursty

    If Jordan was the greatest player of the late 80′s to late 90′s, then who’s the greatest player from, say, 95-2005? I’m saying it’s basically a toss up between Tim Duncan & Shaq, as it’s almost their total prime. Both won 3 ‘Chips in that 10yr time span. It’d make for a great conversation.

  • pposse

    that stupid jaw face was taken from KG..can Kobe do anything original? He even tried to say once that he was the originator of the leggings the NBA ballers used to wear…as lame as those were, Iverson was the originator of that too

  • pposse

    i highly doubt if i was in the NBA i would be wagging my tongue out in ode to my idol..isnt that taking it a little too far??

  • pposse

    duncan stopped being dominant since 2008. Thats 10 good years not 12. I’m saying if he didn’t decline, he would have atleast been on the redeam team and get back the gold medal that him and iverson and the rest of the gang lost.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    97-98 to 08-09, that’s 12 seasons. Count them. He averaged 19 and 11 in 08-09. That’s still dominant.

  • pposse

    ill give you his rookie campaign even tho i distinctly remember this clown patting MJ on his head at the all star game..but not 08-09 season. If my memory serves me correctly Dirk took them out in game 7 playing in SA. And duncan was missing crucial ft’s.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Clown? Duncan is and was widely respected by everyone in and out of the league. The 08-09 season…19 and 11 is still good enough to be considered a top 3 power forward in basketball at worst. And defensively, he was still a force. Missing free throws doesn’t mean you’re not a dominant player. If we’re going to go by missed free throws when discussing dominance, then Shaq was never dominant. So I hope you’re not basing your argument on missed free throws.

  • pablasso

    OMG we finally get Disqus :’)

  • pposse

    its not off missed ft’s, and the clown part was exaggerated for added effects (cause he tried to little brother MJ when he was a rookie)…but its been since 2008 or so that Duncan has missed more and more games in the regular season (or so i think), once you start missing a ton of games your overall dominance to me gets diminished.

  • http://twitter.com/whitehoteboy CCT


  • shutup

    Riddle me this Kadavour, who was the better defender Pip or Jordan? One could argue that Jordan’s ability to play the passing lanes made it easier for Pip to lock down his man and for Rodman to focus on his man and rebounding, its laughable if you look at the cast of role players and misfits that MJ got his six with compared to the help that Kobe has had. Lastly one could also argue that Pip’s defensive prowess was a direct result of Jordan’s tutelage and the fact that Pip got to witness the work ethic and drive of this supreme competitor; thus improving his own stock; lest ye forget rumor had it Pip and Jordan would go at it 1on1 after practice frequently, which greatly improved Scottie’s skill set on both offense and defense.

  • pposse

    also when i think of dominance..immediately i think of shaq..to me what shaq was doing was dominant..no one but MJ and Shaq in my viewing experience of the NBA was dominant other than those two. Duncan played great. He was fundamental, and bec of that I think that a lot of NBA big men could have done wat Duncan did if they approached the game the right way and swallowed their pride.

  • pposse

    the defender had more of an advantage in the 80′s and 90′s than now. Not saying Kobe didn’t deserve calls, but most of Kobe’s points were scored on isolations where you cannot touch him. It wasn’t like that during MJ’s time. You can say what you want about players being more athletic now, and team defenses being smarter now, but nowadays its way too hard to have any sort of advantage in a one on one isolation.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ryan.veltman.7 Ryan Veltman

    The fact that you just said “Bleacher Report has a good article” makes all of your opinions null and void.

  • pposse

    LOL at Mark Jackson and his Kobe proclamations.

  • ThaWindy

    His pops also gave him tapes of mike when he lived overseas. And he sure does not no look pass like Magic.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    He wasn’t trying to “little brother” MJ. He’s 5 inches taller than MJ. He most likely touched what was closest to him. After the 08-09 season, he was in decline. Not before. Which means he had 12 years of dominance. 10 seasons of being the best PF in basketball, 2 of being top 3. A few seasons of being the best player in basketball capable of changing games on both the offensive and defensive ends of the floor. Back to back MVPs. The proof is there.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Duncan wasn’t dominant? Only MJ and Shaq were dominant in your viewing experience? How long have you been watching? If you’ve been watching since Jordan was playing, then you missed a lot of dominant players. So not even Kobe, T-Mac, LeBron, Iverson, KG, Dirk, Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, none of those guys were dominant to you? Dominance simply means you can’t be stopped or even really contained. All of those guys fit the bill.

  • pposse

    Duncan never dominated his immediate competition. Sure he was the best PF for years, but there was not some huge gap between him and KG..EVER imo. Guys like Lebron and D Rose and Kobe have shown flashes of dominance to me, but im not going to say those guys are dominant when like you say there are others in the league like Iverson, T-Mac that were always comparable or for some time were comparable. Only MJ and Shaq separated themselves from the pack. Shaq during the 3 peat was unbelievable so much so i didn’t even want to watch anymore. I been watching the NBA since 91. i really don’t need to speak on MJ and how much better he was than the rest of the competition. The work and the accolades speak for itself.

  • fuck gracie prod


  • Bubbles

    4 is arguable. 05 you coulda argued for Manu, and 07 was definitely parker over duncan.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Being the top guy at your position for a decade is dominance. LeBron has been the best player for four seasons, dominance. D-Rose outplayed every PG he faced in his MVP season, dominance. Kobe was the best SG in basketball for about 7 seasons, dominance. T-Mac could score at will before he began to break down, dominance. There are different kinds of dominance. It’s not just about the guys you’re currently playing against, it’s also about how you compare to the legends who have come before you.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Being the best player is different from having the best series. There were times when Kobe had a better series than Shaq, doesn’t mean he was the most important player.

  • bike

    Don’t all players pattern some of their game after someone they watched? Jordan probably picked up a thing or two from Dr. J. Javale probably learned a few things from Kwame…

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Kobe won in LeBron’s prime…while LeBron was playing with Mo Williams, Delonte West, old Shaq and Big Z…let’s keep things in perspective. Who guys play with makes a huge difference. Also, a little disrespectful to say Dirk Nowitzki doesn’t matter. Kobe’s done winning championships as the best player on the team, that is significant. Kobe has 2 as that guy. LeBron has one with time left to win while being the best player in basketball. The gap between them isn’t as close as you make it out to be. T-Mac is no longer who he once was because he spent years trying to carrying the Orlando Magic by himself with Grant Hill’s misfortune of being injured constantly. Iverson carried Philly by himself as well. Kobe only had 3 seasons as the guy trying to take on that much of a load and was fortunate when Memphis gifted them with Pau Gasol. I’d argue that if Kobe was in Iverson or T-Mac’s situation, he too would be broken down right now. With the teammates Kobe had, T-Mac may still be worth something. It’s not a knock on him, it’s just the truth.

  • manu

    duncan > kobe

    more mvps, more finals mvps

  • manu

    identical except

    jordan has 6 finals mvps
    jordan has 5 mvps
    jordan has 10 scoring titles
    jordan has a DPOY
    jordan has 6 rings

  • manu

    duncan – 3 finals mvps, 2 mvps
    kobe – 2 finals mvps, 1 mvp

    pretty obvious who the better player is

  • tdeuce

    Seed, let me first say I am a Kobe fan and will take his side in any Kobe-MJ arguments, if for nothing else than to play devil’s advocate. This is not a better league than when MJ, Magic and Michael played. Are players more athletic, stronger and faster, yes. However, strength means nothing when you’re not tough. Past players were much tougher and played that way. The game was allowed to be played tougher also. More players that can score? No. Watch those old games, guys could score all over the court. Today’s league is designed with the idea that most guys can’t score. No handchecks or bumps are allowed at all to make it a more free flowing game (and scoring 100 a night is still rare). You have a couple guys on the court at a time that are scorers and then guys who can hit open corner jumpers (created off pick and roll penetration because God-forbid you hedge a screen because that will be a foul). The league as a whole is sorry and defense has been extremely relaxed. I will say this though, during his career Jordan was the only person playing with the rules of today’s NBA. You couldn’t breathe on that guy and he could grab, shove, push and do whatever he wanted.

  • tdeuce

    I’m sure Kobe watches Jordan film before each game to make sure he gets to all the “spots” Jordan made shots from so he can match him. For two guys that have scored as many points as Kobe and Jordan, they’re bound to hit some of the same shots.

  • Dagger

    The same could be said of your use of your real name on a basketball forum.

  • Dj

    You’re high as hell if you think more points and more rings would put Kobe ahead of MJ… MJ has 5 MVP’s and 6 Finals MVP’s, something Kobe will never get… Kobe has never even shot over 47% from the field… All more points would mean is a whole lot more shots… MJ would still have 8 more scoring titles and a DPOY award… Kobe is far, far, far away from MJ…

  • Dj

    LeBron’s prime??? haha He won when LeBron was 23 and 24? OK… I thought you entered your prime at the age of 27 but I could be wrong… Kobe Bryant is a volume scorer who benefited tremendously from the talent he played with… Put T-Mac in Kobe’s situation and they win rings… Give LeBron a prime Shaq and they win rings… Jordan averages 30 ppg on 50% shooting… Kobe averages 25 ppg on 45% shooting… When I hear all you Kobe fans brag about how he’ll pass MJ in points I say, “Bet he’s taken a whole lot more shots that MJ as well too”… MJ has 5 MVP’s and 6 Finals MVP’s… Kobe has 1 MVP and 2 Finals MVP’s… End of discussion… I won’t even mention all of the other awards MJ has that Kobe won’t even dream of getting…

  • Nella

    I think a more interesting video would be one showing the shots Kobe likes to take vs. ones that MJ would never take, i.e. chucking 3′s on fast breaks and shooting over triple teams instead of passing off. Would explain the difference between a 45% shooter and a 50% shooter. I like Kobe, but I’m just sayin.

  • http://twitter.com/Lacville_79 Back Of My Lac

    Nobody cares about the Spurs GTFOH

  • http://twitter.com/Lacville_79 Back Of My Lac

    Lmao kids still on here hating on a man that at the end of his career is a first ballot HOF…..That you can’t take away from him no matter how hard you tried to.

  • LakeShow

    So the fact that the Lakers would not have won any of those 5 Chips without Kobe is irrelevant? He had the most dominant player since Wilt on his team. I mean saying he wasn’t the main guy is such a ludicrous statement even in it’s truth. Shaq is Shaq. You put MJ on Shaq’s team and guess what, MJ defers to Shaq…
    It’s stupid to not take things into context.
    David Robinson, Manu and Tony Parker all have a claim as being the most important player on the Spurs at different points. Tony Parker has a Finals MVP so stop lying about Duncan being a 4 time Finals MVP.
    BTW, in case you don’t know, I know that MJ is better than Kobe and always will be.
    It’s completely debatable between Duncan and Kobe who has been the greatest player since Jordan. IMO we should just understand that the Post position and Back court position are completely different and we should acknowledge that Duncan is the best post player post MJ if you want to discount Shaq as being during MJ. Kobe is the greatest guard since MJ.
    Look like your busy discussing this with other peeps, but I had to put my 2 cents in.

  • LakeShow

    So the fact that the Lakers would not have won any of those 5 Chips without Kobe is irrelevant? He had the most dominant player since Wilt on his team. I mean saying he wasn’t the main guy is such a ludicrous statement even in it’s truth. Shaq is Shaq. You put MJ on Shaq’s team and guess what, MJ defers to Shaq…
    It’s stupid to not take things into context.
    David Robinson, Manu and Tony Parker all have a claim as being the most important player on the Spurs at different points. Tony Parker has a Finals MVP so stop lying about Duncan being a 4 time Finals MVP.
    BTW, in case you don’t know, I know that MJ is better than Kobe and always will be.
    It’s completely debatable between Duncan and Kobe who has been the greatest player since Jordan. IMO we should just understand that the Post position and Back court position are completely different and we should acknowledge that Duncan is the best post player post MJ if you want to discount Shaq as being during MJ. Kobe is the greatest guard since MJ.
    Look like your busy discussing this with other peeps, but I had to put my 2 cents in.

  • LakeShow

    Your “prime” is when you are in your prime.
    So, there is not an age where you turn your “prime switch” on.
    It just happens when father time says.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    It’s not irrelevant but what is relevant is the fact that Kobe was the best and most important player on 2 titles teams compared to Duncan’s 4. That has to be discussed if we’re going to talk about who’s had the better career. How can a truth be ludicrous? Kobe wasn’t the main guy. What’s ludicrous about saying it? We’re not talking about MJ here, we’re talking Duncan/Kobe. I didn’t say Duncan was a 4 time Finals MVP, that was someone else. I did say that he was the best and most important player on those teams because he was. Parker and Ginobili had better series than he did at times, but everything ran through Duncan. Robinson deferred to Duncan in his rookie season, that’s significant. Kobe’s first Finals, he only averaged 21. Let’s talk facts if we’re going to talk about this seriously.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    as much as i am in the Tim Duncan has clearly had the better career camp, i understand people’s POV about Kobe. Offensively, Kobe is far and away the best player since Jordan. And offense is
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Acr5f0YJ8w so that’s that. Other than that though, success as the best player, effectiveness as an overall basketball player, winning %, everything else, is in Duncan’s favor.

  • KnicksAllDayy

    Totally agree, Kobe has been wearing the band on his left arm since high school, right around the time MJ was winning his championships. EVERYONE patterned their crossover to Iverson in the late 90′s to early 2000′s.

  • knicksallday

    Kobe idolizes MJ. The way Kobe carries himself, speak to the media, triple threat moves, fadeaway, post, crossover, everything is patterned after MJ. Plus it helps when he had phil jackson coaching him.

  • LakeShow

    Kobe averaged 15.5 PPG in his first Finals, not 21ppg.
    .Not true again. Parker was the MVP in 07. Stop saying 4, it’s 3.
    You can’t claim Duncan was the MVP when he wasn’t the MVP.
    Robinson deferred to Duncan cause Duncan was a beast.
    Kobe took 2 years to get acclimated. Take that as you will.
    Kobe is a better player today than Duncan is. Yet he has much more mileage on his body. That says something.

    Kobe has been more dominant late in his career where as Duncan was more dominant at the beginning.
    Both were dominant defenders in their prime.
    Kobe does allot more than just score, you should know better. I’ll explain his importance to you now so that you can see clearly why he is considered to be such an all around great player and not just a scorer.

    In Kobe’s first finals series where he only averaged 15ppg, in that first game Kobe held Reggie Miller to a playoff low and one of the worse shooting percentages in NBA Finals history, 1-16 FG’s for 7 points.
    (Whether or not he deserves to be on the all defense team years after year is debatable, but there’s a reason people keep on voting him to those teams.)
    The game 3 where KB didn’t play due to the injury, Reggie scored 33 points and the Pacers won. In addition to that, Shaq had his “worse” game of the Finals. Shows the importance Bean played to Shaq’s success.
    Game 4 of Kobe’s first finals is where a star was born. He had his ankle wrapped up very tight from the injury and he was icing it all day and every moment he could throughout the game. He picked 4 fouls in the first half and only scored 6 points. The 2nd half started and things didn’t look any better. KB picked up a 5th foul in the 3rd and still hadn’t gotten his offense going. Then Kobe scored 14 points fairly quickly. Including 3 buckets in a row at Phil Jackson’s bidding. 4th Quarter rolls around, Shaq too is in foul trouble, Phil has KB ISO up again and AGAIN, like in the 3rd, Bryant scores on 3 consecutive isolation possessions. Shaq fouls out with 2 and half mins left in the game. Things were looking bleak for LA you would think with losing the Diesel…
    The game goes to OT thanks to a KB rebound/reverse layup from a missed shot from Brian Shaw with 40 seconds left in regulation. Despite the bum ankle, KB played 47 mins and closes the game for the Lakers. Scoring 8 points in OT. 2nd most in NBA History in the Finals.
    Shaq was having 40-20 games on the reg in those playoffs. Which is why he is BEAST and why he deserved to be option #1 for the Lakers. But this was KB’s first finals and he was injured and this is what he accomplished.

    To be fair, KB sucked the next game, but he made 5 FT’s to close the game. Something we all know Shaq can’t do. Which is also why KB was so valuable to Shaq and the Lakers for those Chips.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    What I meant to say is that Kobe only averaged 21 in the playoffs when the Lakers won their first championship. Duncan was the most important player in those 4 title runs regardless of Parker winning that MVP. Parker had a better series than Duncan, but Duncan was the guy who they ran their offense through. Parker played great (add in the fact that the Cavs PGs were Eric Snow and Boobie Gibson). So yes, it was 4 times, not 3, for Duncan being the main guy on those teams. What Kobe and Tim are now doesn’t matter. Up until this point, a better argument can be made for Duncan being better than Kobe than for Kobe being better than Duncan. I think a lot of folks are captivated by the manner in which Kobe has played since he’s a guard. He’s athletic. It looks nice. Duncan is simply all substance and has been throughout his career. No flash. Just results. No headache along with those results. No feuds. Original game. And for the last few seasons, Kobe has had more interest in scoring than anything else. I understand you’re a Lakers fan, but let’s be real here. He loves to shoot. A lot. He’s not the defender he once was and hasn’t been for a few seasons. He’s never been very interested in sharing the ball. These are things that you have never heard about Duncan. So at this point, if we’re going to talk about what they are now, Kobe is strictly a shooter. Not that much of a defender anymore. His FG% is dropping which is a sign of decline. Honestly, for the past few seasons, if he was more into what’s good for the team, he would have decreased his shot attempts and involved Gasol and Bynum more. That would have kept his FG% respectable. Duncan is solid now. But overall, give me the guy who I can run my offense through and who will anchor my defense. Coachable. Selfless. Trusts his teammates. That’s Duncan.

  • LakeShow

    Why does it not matter now that Kobe is the better older star than Duncan?
    Career longevity and dominance matters.
    For a guy who doesn’t share the ball KB sure does get allot more assists than Duncan.
    I couldn’t care less about how people view Duncan’s game. He is a super star and one of the greatest NBA players of all time. Top 3 PF.
    If they need flash that’s fine. I don’t.
    ‘No headaches’ doesn’t show up in the W/L column. I don’t care if it’s easier for you to like Duncan’s personality than KB’s. It’s irrelevant to basketball discussion.
    Kobe is still an above average defender. As is Duncan.
    But overall, give me a guy who can and wants to drag my team to a W. One that can shoot over double teams and get a good shot off in any occasion. One that will shoot over 85% from the FT line and can be the clutch go to guy for my team down the stretch.
    I’m done though, cause i’m not arguing Kobe>Duncan. I’m saying that Kobe is the greatest guard since MJ. You can dispute the importance of the guard positions vs the post positions with someone else.

  • LakeShow

    What is with this best PF over a decade stuff?
    Kevin Garnett had better individual years than Duncan.
    As did Chris Webber and Dirk Nowitski from 98 forward.

  • Guest

    Kobe has the balls in his hands more than Duncan which is why he gets more assists than Duncan. Can’t compare a SG’s assists to a power forward. Assists shouldn’t be looked at when trying to prove a point about selflessness. If a guy dribbles for 20 seconds, and passes to a teammate who hits a shot in under 4 seconds, that’s not a selfless assist. Duncan has more wins than Kobe…wins show up in the win column. Kobe will shoot now, that’s it. I would take the guy who will score, rebound and get his teammates the ball. I wouldn’t say he drags or will drag his team to a W. He will shoot his team in or out of a game. Kobe shoots over too many double teams which is why his FG% is what it is. As for the clutch factor, Kobe hasn’t hit a clutch shot in quite a while.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Kobe has the ball in his hands more than Duncan which is why he gets
    more assists than Duncan. Can’t compare a SG’s assists to a power
    forward. Assists shouldn’t be looked at when trying to prove a point
    about selflessness. If a guy dribbles for 20 seconds, and passes to a
    teammate who hits a shot in under 4 seconds, that’s not a selfless
    assist. Duncan has more wins than Kobe…wins show up in the win column.
    Kobe will shoot now, that’s it. I would take the guy who will score,
    rebound and get his teammates the ball. I wouldn’t say he drags or will
    drag his team to a W. He will shoot his team in or out of a game. Kobe
    shoots over too many double teams which is why his FG% is what it is. As
    for the clutch factor, Kobe hasn’t hit a clutch shot in quite a while.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Only four times has Dirk averaged close to 10 rebounds. He has had better scoring seasons, but power forwards should rebound more than Dirk has/does. KG had 9 seasons where his stats resembled Duncan’s. 9 is less than 10. Therefore, Duncan has been more consistent for a longer period of time.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Since you mentioned KG, what does it say about Kobe that KG has had seasons where he’s averaged the same, if not more, assists than Kobe has averaged? If you want to talk about a guy dragging his team, KG has had to do that more than Kobe has. And if you want to talk about trusting teammates, who has been a better teammate than KG?

  • LakeShow

    Exactly. CAN’T compare a guard to a forward. You said it best.
    Duncan has had more consistent talent than Kobe. He never got stuck with Smush and stone hands Brown. Hence the winning %.
    If quite a while since clutch, is a few last season… then yeah Kobe hasn’t been as clutch as we expect him. When was Duncan last clutch?
    See first sentence.
    I’m done.
    Solid debate thanks.

  • LakeShow

    Players should do whatever it takes to win. PF’s don’t need to rebound over 10 a game just like a PG does’t need to assist over 10 a game. You do what’s needed not try and fill a stat line.
    Your math doesn’t add up. Since Duncan has had one more dominant year IYO then he is by far and away the best PF over the last decade?
    I agree he has been the best but it’s by a hairline with KG.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Kobe can’t fill a statline. That’s the point. He can shoot. That’s all he’s interested in. That’s why LeBron, if he continues on the path he’s on, will push Kobe into 3rd place as the best player since Jordan retired.

  • Randomspawnpoint

    Boo this man!

  • LakeShow

    Riddle me this:
    So if Kobe can’t “fill a stat line” (which for some strange reason seems to be a necessary thing for a great player?) then why is there only 2 other players in the top 25 assisters in the L that are not PG’s who pass better than Kobe?
    Statistically speaking (which sounds quite important to you) Kobe was the best passing SG in the L last season…
    Hmm, lets look at rebounds from the guard position and see where KB ranks.
    Hmm, strange, he is the 3rd best rebounding guard in the L. That’s if you up Evan Turner and Paul George to the SG position instead of their natural SF position. They both have inches on Kobe. So , he’s first or 3rd depending on how you look at it among guards for rebounding… Hmm. Things just aren’t adding up.
    Lets check other stats..
    He stole 1.2 times a game. That’s .3 away from making the top 10 in the L in steals.
    Better than his FDPOY team mate Ron Ron.

    So, I guess i’m just not following your point to well bub.

  • blackthought

    kobe pattented his whole game after mj, and he`s one of the very few 2 come close – or maybe the only one till now (ain`t nobody get even – hear this all u “lebron might surpase mike believers”)!

  • havoc33

    yet by the time the 98 season was underway, MJ was also getting a lot of flac in the media for the degree of difficulty on his shots. This is now forgotten of course, as history only remembers his glorius finish in game 6 vs the Jazz. The unecessary three point chucking though, I will agree with you, MJ was never guilty of.

  • havoc33

    Kobe can’t fill a stat line? Are you freakin’ serious? Go watch some old tapes, because you obviously missed out. He might have become more of a pure scorer now as his career winds down, but in his prime he was considered the best allround player in the league by both his peers and critics.

  • havoc33

    This Kobe only won 2 rings rings as the best player on his team is a really stupid argument. If you watched any ball at all during the Lakers threepeat, you would know that Kobe had grown into option 1b by the 00-01 season started. Shaq had a magnificent ’00 season and dominated both the regular season and playoffs, a career defining showing by him. The following year he showed up out of shape, while Kobe had worked on his game all summer. This forever changed the dynamics of that Laker team. You could still say that Shaq was the alpha dog, but Kobe was no mere sidekick. In their legendary 01 postseason run, Kobe was the Lakers MVP through the first three rounds, as he utterly destroyed the Kings and the Spurs. Now remember, the Spurs-Lakers matchup was billed as being a series for the ages, but largely due to Kobe’s play, that series were never even close, with the Lakers sweeping the Spurs. Shaq dominated the Finals, and rightfully so got his Finals MVP, but Kobe, not Shaq, had the best overall season that year. Look, Kobe will never be no MJ, but he has had a damn fine career of his own, and should be in anyone’s top 10 discussion. Plus, IF the Lakers win the chip this year, it will be Kobe, not Howard, that lifts that Finals MVP trophy, which will solidify his place as the best Laker ever.

  • havoc33

    I’m sorry, T-Mac had all the talent in the world, but he was a lazy smuch with a poor attitude. When your teams organization calls you out, wanting you to be more like that other guy, yeah thats saying something. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, I’m referring to the game between the Lakers and Magic in 04 where Kobe led a comeback and shut down T-Mac in the second half. By then, T-Mac’s lack of dedication was all too evident, and the Magic GM was privately fuming, saying that watching Kobe play made it all too clear what was lacking in T-Mac’s game. Plus, you would think that carrying a bunch a scrubs like Kobe did from 05 till 07 would hurt him more at that stage of his career than T-Mac did as a young star coming up in the early 2000s.

  • manu

    jordan – 6 finals mvps
    magic – 3
    shaq – 3
    duncan – 3
    kobe – 2

    something stands out

  • biggieman

    Kobe will never be better than Jordan… Kobe wasn’t even the the best player for his first 3 championship teams. All championship players have played with other greats no question, but the difference between Kobe and MJ is that no one ever questioned who the best player on the Bulls was, or in the league at that time.

  • Kid Viscious

    its like they were playing horse with each other in two different decades.

  • Fulle3r

    anyone know the name of this song?