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Wednesday, June 18th, 2008 at 10:04 am  |  311 responses

I’m The First To Admit When I’m Right

It’s called “accountability.”

I said before the season that these Celtics had the potential to be the best in the L, and so it has proven. That doesn’t guarantee anything in the Playoffs, but I still like the way the Cs are rolling. The veteran leadership, offensive balance and team D are all as strong as we thought they could be, the supporting cast surpassed all expectations, and no team is hungrier. Having to get past (most likely) Cleveland and Detroit won’t be easy, but it’s very doable. Then they’ll beat the Lakers in six.

I wrote that. In March. Check SLAM 118. My greatness is unassailable.

One last thing: To a man of many nicknames—only some of which he’s given himself—I offer another: Pequeño.

I think it fits.

I hope everyone has a great summer.

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  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    For once, Plaschke hit the nail on the head. Ryan, well done. Not as good as my blog prediction, but exceptional as always. Pequeno is now my favorite word.

  • http://slamonline.com Holly MacKenzie

    Oh boy.

  • B. Long

    Hey Ryan, I was definitely wrong about Ray, I have to admit it, but for those who’ve said he should have got MVP over Pierce I hope you watched more than Game 6. Paul carried the Celts to this Chip.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    No shame Jones?

  • http://myspace.com/2536545 Bryan

    Wow.

  • B. Long

    So,Ryan, when are you gonna start lobbying a Lebron to the Celts trade? Tomorrow?

  • blackjack

    Nostradamus!

  • B. Long

    This was a great prediction too. Gotta give credit when it is do. Even if it’s due to an arrogant ass writer who would rather bash Kobe then point out the flaws in his own favorite players game. Actually, I take that back, Kobe deserves some bashing right now. Family and offcourt issues aside, his performance in the finals is free game right now. Not even his Unoffical Lobbiest can put a spin on this embarassment.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Good to see B has noticed what the rest of the non-Lakers contigent has seen for years.

  • http://myspace.com/2536545 Bryan

    QUiet day today…

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    Good to see youre taking your cues from Bill Plaschke now.

  • B. Long

    @Eboy: I’m the kinda guy who roots for the bad guy sometimes, like when I watch Scarface, I always cut it off before Tony shoots his boy cause I don’t want to watch him go out like that. Guess I shouldn’t have watched Game 6.

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    Bill Plaschke.

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    Wow.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    B, honestly, I didn’t want to see Kobe go out like that. It’s funny fuc*ing with you guys about him and I have my own motivations on why I dislike his game, but dude really showed where he ranks as a killer/leader/destroyer/legend during this series and his seat on that plane was moved to the cargo hold after it. Nevermind Lamar, Pau and Fish’s performances. Those three are really not worth the Lakers starter postions they possess.

  • http://www.myspace.com/linkstigatorkevin Kevin Wilson

    As Sports Guy said, this series should settle that “Kobe vs. MJ” argument once and for all. MJ did not and would not blow a 24-point lead at home in the Finals.

  • http://myspace.com/2536545 Bryan

    Pau was terrible man…I was SCREAMING at the tv all series “MAKE A F*CKING MOVE” make the defense respect you or at least remember that you’re on the court he did nothing. Same with Lamar for the most part , when he was attacking the rim good things were happening , when he wasn’t the defense loaded up on Kobe and he had no help to make the Celtics pay for it. As good a job as it was by the celtics , it was just as bad a job by the Lakers.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Am T the only that noticed that Kobe rarley takes contact in the lane and that’s why his free throw shooting was non-existent for the last two series. Here’s something funny…..if he took/created contact like Lebron does, he might have stolen this series for his team.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    *rarely

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    And the hits just keep on comin…

  • http://myspace.com/2536545 Bryan

    Ok I get it MJ is better than Kobe blah blah…BUt someone on the Bulls had to want it also. No one on the Lakers seemed to want to be there.It wasn’t just Jordan winning those chips Pippen and Rodman are all timers in their own right…I’m not making an excuse for Kobe but damn give the guy a break.They lost the lead but who else on the team stepped up? The bulls had three lock down defenders that meant 3/5 of the other teams lineup could badically be shut out. If they got you on the ropes their was no turning back. Who on the Lakers has that ability?

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    Oooh! Oooh! I know!

  • http://myspace.com/2536545 Bryan

    Or if he acted like he was going to fall down everytime he put the ball on the floor like Paul Piece right Eboy? Even my girlfriend noticed how much that Manu impression.

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    Nobody!

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    You didn’t expect any less from all of us uniformed morons, did you Myles? It won’t be much fun after today anyway. Especially when guys like B. Long are actually rational about the status of the team.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Nice of Myles to keep the team spirit up, btw. :)

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Shia, it worked for Wade too.

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    I just dont understand why you argue with completely irrational people and then gloat about being right with equally irrational statements. Youre better than that.

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    Right?

  • http://myspace.com/2536545 Bryan

    That sh*t really pisses me off…MJ wouldn’t let his team do this or that…It seems like we forget the games where he did it all and still lost, like the 63 points at the Garden , Everyone knows about that record but who knows that he lost the game?Sh*t happens, once he got Pippen to lock up the best permiter guy on the team the Bulls took off right? Lamar is good but he’s not pippen and I’m not sure Pau is even Longley.

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    If Kobe went 22-22 last night the Lakers still wouldve lost.

  • http://joeloholic.wordpress.com Joel O’s

    @: Eboy. Your Lebron comment made me sit up straight and realize something (and it hit me like a bullet) on hindsight: that the flawed Cavaliers, half of whom have barely played half a season with Lebron and Mike Brown’s schemes, put up a MUCH better fight than the Lakers did. At least they made the Celtics bleed.

  • http://joeloholic.wordpress.com Joel O’s

    Longley was phatter and tougher.

  • Krishan

    They’re
    just
    fu(king
    horrible
    GOD

  • http://joeloholic.wordpress.com Joel O’s

    Well, speaking on behalf of fellow irrational Laker believers… the Lakers *did* beat a menacing Utah team and the champion Spurs (Nugs don’t count). And the Western conference, collectively, was so good this year that most people would think that whichever team survived it would likely be the champions.

  • Krishan

    I hated this series. Everytime in every game that LA loses the lead, and it was quite apparent that they weren’t going to get it back, I walked out of the freakin room. This was goddamn excruciating. If I had a gun and knew where Radmanovic lived…

  • http://coco-vents.blogspot.com Co Co

    Dammit my last commnet disappeared. Once again, Kobe is no MJ, but if I never watched basketball and I listened to you guys I would think MJ never had stuggles against a great defensive team that was hell bent on not letting him beat them. I’d also assume that he never had a supporting cast as good as the 2007-2008 Lakers but he was able to win anyway. Let me channel my inner Hubie Brown: Now give the Boston Celtics a lot of credit, they decided that someone other than Kobe Bryant would have to beat them and no one stepped up. You guys are right when you say MJ would’ve found a way because you know what he actually had players on his team that had at least 1//8 of his desire to win. Kobe did not have that. This loss is not all his fault and it doesn’t mean he’s any less of a player. The Celtics were better and since all of his teammates decided to bail out on him in this series he never had a chance. He’s good, but he aint that good. And believe it or not MJ wouldn’t have faired much better if he had this supporting cast along side him. I’m off to lunch.

  • http://joeloholic.wordpress.com Joel O’s

    And as for the supporting cast of the Lakers, they looked great against pretty much everyone until the Finals began. It hurts and baffles to see people you’ve been looking up to exposed, and being shown on the biggest stage on earth their biggest weaknesses. Kinda like how Bill Clinton went from revered bastion of goodness to clumsy attack dog within a year.

  • Drew

    The Celtics won the championship with a great performance, and all of the posts are still about the Lakers? It’s like there is no other team in this league. Let me suggest some more topics:

    1. So much for the KG is a nice guy but can’t close the deal” talk. Can we all agree that Keven McHale is the worst GM ever?

    2. Doc Rivers is a better coach than we thought. I liked the guy ever since he got married wearing pink chuck taylors.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Khalid Salaam

    The real reason the Lakers lost is this. Phil jackson got played. Its simple as that.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    When are you putting up your recap Co Co?

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Phil was asleep. Literally I think. I know I was.

  • http://myspace.com/2536545 Bryan

    Exactly my point Coco…maybe they’ll pay attention to you.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Pau needs to get in the weight room, STAT!

  • http://joeloholic.wordpress.com Joel O’s

    @Coco: Agreed. Sasha was gone a few games ago after Ray blew by him again and again and he threw a hissy fit on the bench. And Radmanovic seems to think he’s in the All-Star 3-point contest. This team needs to add a tough SOB, a guy who adds some bite to the team, much like KG (haha) or Rasheed did to theirs.

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    It is mathematically impossible for me to agree with Co Co any more than 100%. But Ill find a way.

  • B. Long

    Pau and Dirk would make a cute couple.

  • http://myspace.com/2536545 Bryan

    Damn I feel like I still don’t have the internet.

  • Krishan

    Khalid speaketh the realest. All this “Phil will manhandle Doc” discussion unraveled for me after game one. Starting radmanovic every freakin game AND giving him the pierce assignment is baffling.

  • http://joeloholic.wordpress.com Joel O’s

    @Drew: Indeed. KG walked the walk last night, and bounced back from a horrible game where all the vultures were out to get him.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    “Stick Man” is my new name for Gasol.

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    Pau Gasol is Spanish for gapin…forget it.

  • http://slamonline.com The Biz

    Kobe and his squad quit plain and simple

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    If Myles 11:48a comment was directed at me, that might have been the only nice thing he has ever typed in response to me and I still fell like a schmuck because of it’s insult. Thanks man. :(

  • Sparker

    khalid, could you elaborate on that? and by the way, didn’t you pick the celts to win way back as well?

  • http://www.slamonline.com Khalid Salaam

    Doc RIvers made Phil Jackson his b*tch. He really did… And i like Phil.

  • B. Long

    The kid’s from the Jerry Lewis telathons could have done better than Vlad Rad did this series.

  • B. Long

    I feel like my girlfriend cheated on me in high school….with my younger brother….and it got put on the internet.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    I like that analogy, B.

  • B. Long

    @E: Read my 11:44 comment on Links. Thoughts?

  • http://www.slamonline.com Khalid Salaam

    b long thats not even funny. show some class man.

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    How many minutes did Phil Jackson log last night? Actually, forget that. What should he have done that would have assured him a different outcome last night?

  • Sparker

    and pau isn’t really that bad. the game’s match ups, and normally pau uses his mobility against other centers. that sh*t didn’t fly against the celts. so what? will boston be called a bad team when atlanta proves just as difficult for them to beat next year? jackson got it right post-game. if they get back to the finals, and they meet boston, the lakers will need some different guys to match up with them. that’s doable, i think. it also doesn’t mean that pau won’t be useful when they’re playing other teams

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    B, that first analogy was way shi*ty. I was looking at the second one. Also, regarging your Links comment, yeah that Kobe needed to show up and probably needs to rear it’s head much more next to put some fear back into teams.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Woke up and called a timeout?

  • http://myspace.com/2536545 Bryan

    The Lakers would have been better off with Candace Parker manning the middle.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Khalid Salaam

    Well for starters how about you run Kobe off more screens. Or how about you take vlad out of the starting line-up and start ariza or turiaf? guys that play with enthusiasm and can defend better. Face it Phil got smoked in this series. The Celtics deserved this ring because they played better and received better coaching

  • http://myspace.com/2536545 Bryan

    Turiaf really? Turiaf? I can understand Ariza but Turiaf is garbage dude…

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Turiaf at least has some emotion, Shia.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    I don’t like Turiaf, but he does the small things that don’t show up on the stat sheet. Hustle, play D, and screen. I didn’t see Vlad Rad do any of those things.

  • http://myspace.com/2536545 Bryan

    He takes some ill-advised jumpers, to be polite.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    And yes, those things matter, especially when you are losing by double digits.

  • http://idunkonthem.blogspot.com/ albie1kenobi

    soooo…back to the celtics, they played a pretty flawless game yesterday huh? the lakers never recovered after posey and eddie house nailed 3s to stretch the lead to 9. i credit rondo for being aggressive both sides of the court, his defense completely disrupted any flow the lakers could have, and went out gun blazing on the offensive side. dude grabbed 4 or 5 offensive board, and outhustled all the lakers big man. i think that really set the tone for the game. KG also finally came through and dominated in the post. he just proved that he wanted the trophy. that double pump bank shot made me jump out of my seat. KG!!!!!!

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Well, he’s not an offensive gold mine, but yeah, like TAD says, he does the little things and doesn’t mind mixing it up.

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    Kobe ran that screen and roll with Gasol in the high post for a few games and they completely abandoned it after it became clear that Paus man was not going to be the one providing the help. So Kobe wasnt going to get the easy dropoffs for Gasol that got him going against the Spurs. I didnt like Vlad starting either, but Ariza hadn’t played meaningful ball in months and Turiaf-as much as I like him-doesnt have the post skills to deliver on offense, nor would he stretch the defense like Vlad was, um, supposed to. Phil made some questionable moves over the course of this series, but ultimately his team just got punished inside on both ends of the floor and he didnt have the personnel to counter with. Those matchups that he could counter, like putting Kobe on Rondo or Pierce, he did. The C’s do deserve this ring though, no hating here. All I want for Christmas is a rematch.

  • http://idunkonthem.blogspot.com/ albie1kenobi

    i think the lakers would have been better off with turiaf using his hustle and energy on KG and the team to help out whenever possible, and with lamar guarding against pierce. vlad was completely useless on the court.

  • http://myspace.com/2536545 Bryan

    I’m not Vlad should be out there but neither should Turiaf…Going small with Ariza Odom and Gasol up front would have been decent I guess…I mean they didn’t have many options..the Players they had out there have the ability to be good but not the mentality. I took notice last night when Big Baby was out there…Pau should have scored on his ass all night but he didn’t. Turiaf would have shot 13 foot jumpers from the corner though so pick your poison.

  • http://idunkonthem.blogspot.com/ albie1kenobi

    one question: did the Triangle show up this Finals?

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    The triangle was turned into a dinner bell for the Celtics defense.

  • Lz – Cphfinest3

    Whoever (and that’s a lot of peeps these days) using Pau, Lamar, Etc.’s weak play as an excuse for Kobe’s horrible series just stop it now. True his supporting cast didn’t do very good, but that is exactly what separates the good actors from the great ones. No matter how bad a supporting cast or movie, they always deliver a top notch performance, rising to the occasion, lifting the level of their less-talented cast or a poor script. Kobe’s no Brando..

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Nice one Myles.

  • B. Long

    @Khalid: My bad, I ‘m sorry if I offended anybody with that comment but it’s not because I don’t understand hardships disabled people have to go through,my mom teaches disabled kids and I lived with my niece who is disabled and we had a relationship where we could laugh about certain things others my find untasteful. I look at disability the same way I look at all other sterotypes about people. If you can’t laugh at it then it gives them power. Sorry bout the long explaination I guess I just wanted to talk about something other than the Lakers for a min. (sobs)

  • http://myspace.com/2536545 Bryan

    LZ this isn’t a movie. Actors can shine in a crap movie because they don’t have other people trying to snuff out their talent like you do in basketball.One on five never works unless Sam Mitchell is the coach.If anyone on the Lakers made themselves relevant..I mean no one on the celtics even cared when anyone other than Kobe had the ball because whoever got it didn’t know what to do with it anyway.

  • Sparker

    he’s definitely thinner

  • B. Long

    @Lz: and your no Ebert.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Khalid Salaam

    I’m not talking about Turiafs jumper as a reason he should have started. the lakers had TWO OFFENSIVE REBOUNDS in game 6. surely he could have helped….Nevermind. I’m done talking about the lakers. Celtics congrats….

  • http://idunkonthem.blogspot.com/ albie1kenobi

    so what’s the difference between spurs and celtics? how did lakers take spurs in 5 games and got demolished in the Finals? wasn’t the spurs a dominant defense team too? to attempt to answer my own question, the difference is that the celtics have multiple mobile bigs and they have wing players with better size and range. thoughts?

  • B. Long

    I never thought I’d say this but a half mentally stable Ron Artest would do wonders for the Lakers. If Phil wants to redeem himself Mitch should trade for Ron and let Phil pull out his “Dummies guide to managing an extremely talented physcopath” book he used on Rodman.

  • http://idunkonthem.blogspot.com/ albie1kenobi

    it’s way easier to focus on and criticize the negatives than to marvel and enjoy the positives. that’s why most people are still bitching about the lakers not performed rather than praising the celtics played very very well.

  • Nasman

    Hopefully this will finally end the Jordan comparisons. That doesn’t mean Kobe isn’t one of the ten best players to ever play the game it just means Jordan really is that much better than everyonne else. Oh and once agian Laker fans prove that their so called love for Kobe is BUllS##t. They’ve always had one foot out the door with the guy and at the first sign of trouble they bolt on the dude. Especaily Plashkes flip flopping ass. They got beat by a far better team, that double and tripple teamed Kobe every time he touched the ball.

  • Michael

    I’ve been hating on Kobe all series, and i still say his perfomances in the finals throughout his career have been subpar, but this wasn’t all his fault. His supporting cast is slightly overated, Pau is a really good player but he’s no scottie pippen. Phil has got to find someone who can teach his team to play pick and roll defense, that has killed him throughout his career.

    Another thing, i love how laker fans have truned on Kobe again, their undying love for him is the biggest misconception in the league.

  • http://coco-vents.blogspot.com Co Co

    Tad its up on my page. I’m glad at least someone agrees with me. Howeva we should all probably focus more on the fact that the Celts won this series. They actually played like they were in the Finals when it mattered most.

  • http://idunkonthem.blogspot.com/ albie1kenobi

    nice writeup, Co Co. objective and pointed out a lot of things that i had in my mind too, especially KG’s effect showing up in his team vs. kobe’s. you can say that’s called leadership, when the entire team take on your persona. as that annoying dude from the denali commerical says: “never let up”. that’s what KG is.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Agreed Co Co. The better team won.

  • People’s Princess

    And i am golden..Honestly,it kills me to say this but the Lakers were overmatched in every single department on the floor..I’m big enough to admit it but this whole “Kobe’s cast wasn’t strong enough” sh*t has gotta stop.Facts:Bench play wasn’t awful,it was putrid.Instant offense types (Vlad Rad and Sasha) were smothered completely.Energy guys (Ronnie and Luke) were invisible.Lamar comes and goes.Deal wit it.He was awful throughout this series but was pretty good through the past 3 series.That’s just Lamar’s law of averages catching up with him.Pau isn’t a center just as Vlad isn’t a 4.They’re both tall enough to play the position but lack the requisite strength.All in all,we lost to a team that was pretty damn good on the D and offensively had all the ingredients to give Lakers fits i.e a simple high pick n roll.We lost,yeah it hurts.But life goes on.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com People’s Princess

    NOW i’m golden

  • http://www.slamonline.com Khalid Salaam

    Where are all the people who compared KG with Dirk?

  • Michael

    Doesn’t this win make Kg the third best power foward ever. The only guys i would obove him are TD and Bob Pettite. With his championship, his MVP, hte ridiculous all around numbers he’s put up in his career i think he has to go above Malone and Barkley.

  • http://coco-vents.blogspot.com Co Co

    They’re now comparing Kobe to Dirk Khalid.

  • H to the izzo

    Khalid:The same place where the people who thought Ray Allen wasn’t in the big three.

  • http://canadianballer.blogspot.com/ Karma

    I’m sick of people saying this loss taints Kobe’s legacy, he’s overrated, etc. Lebron James frickin got swept out of the NBA Finals, it didn’t do jack to his “legacy”, why should it hinder Kobe’s? Shaq’s lost in the Finals before with the Magic, yet his legacy remains intact, obviously because he won more rings later on, but who’s to say Kobe won’t win any more rings?

    People just love to give knee-jerk reactions. People forget that the Lakers were not even supposed to be here, and we can take solace in the fact that they did push the Celtics to 6, even though the Celtics proved themselves to be much more dominant. Kobe can’t win, no matter what he does.

    If he had won the championship, it would have been: “Kobe only won because he got Pau Gasol handed to him”, or something similar.

    Now that he lost, it’s: “Kobe Bryant should have been in “me-mode”, he should have turned into Jordan. He’s not Jordan, he’s overrated.”

    The media in general loves to give knee jerk reactions to everything. When Lebron lost last year, I didn’t sweat anything about him because I knew that his team was crap and there was no way they would beat the Spurs. Coming into this series, I thought the Lakers would win because they dismantled the Western Conference, but Boston’s had thier number the entire year, and in the end, the Big Three was way too much. Let’s not forget the fact that every other Laker except Mamba and Pau, and sometimes Lamar, played absolutely BRUTAL basketball most of this series.

  • H to the izzo

    …and who thought the Lakers would win with ease.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Myles is fighting the good fight. He won’t win.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Mr. Karma seems to gloss over the fact that Mr. O’Neal and Mr. James lost their early career Finals appearances because of just that, their inability to adapt to get over the hump. Kobe has three rings already, and has been around for a decade, dude shouldn’t be made to feel sorry for. Besides him and Fish there was no one else on their team that has wver been in that type of scenario and as a “leader” or more accuratley, the main leader, he should be the one to shoulder the burden and the praise, whatever the outcome. Again, he is no kind of leader. Well, at least not a championship bred one. His rings were one as a soldier in someone else’s army. Don’t forget that.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    KG played great last night and it was wonderful to see him get a trophy. But, he also shrank in big moments previously. He’s oustanding, but I don’t know about top 3.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    *one=won

  • http://coco-vents.blogspot.com Co Co

    Eboy, he was a leader enough to get them to that point. His leadership didn’t change from the San Antonio series to the Finals. They changed. Lamar Odom showed up for one quarter the whole series. There’s nothing Kobe can do about the fact that he stayed in foul trouble and even when he was out there he was largely ineffective. It’s like they say you can lead a horse or cow or some damn animal to water, but you can’t make them drink.
    Kobe could have been on some Martin type ish and that wouldn’t have made Sasha’s j fall nor would it have kept LO from picking up stupid fouls. It wouldn’t have made Vlad Rad anymore able to guard PP and etc. To question someone’s leadership after they lose in the Finals is a bit much. If he were that bad he would have never gotten them there in the first place.

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    Co Co and I are getting married in the fall.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    KG played well all playoffs, I wish people would stop hating. So he shot alot of jumpers. Big deal?! He also made a lot of them. His defense, rebounding, hustle, and true grit meant a ton more to the outcome of the Celtics season than whether or not he chose to post up when a smaller player switched onto him.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    And like it or not Kobe is now the unquestioned “general” like Shaq used to say he was. While that may have had Lakers supporters screaming differently once their dynasty crumbled and all the blame fell in his fat lap, there is no excuse today as to who is the guy who’s team it is and where the burden should lie. It’s not a 1 man effort that wins a title, but one man can change the fortunes and the outcome of certain circumstances and in one of the more embarrasing closings to a story, this one ended with the limpest or most pequeno of them all.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Co Co, I love ya kid, but if my criticisms of Kobe seem misplaced your trying to create the illusion that he held only a small percentage of the blame is just as off center.

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    People continue to harp on Kobe and Phil, but cant provide a reasonable answer as to how they could have won this series in spite of the other Lakers play.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Here’s something Lakers fans should be familiar with and only something the rest of heard for oh, I don’t know, every game of this series “

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Sorry. “WAIT TILL KOBE GETS OFF. 50′S COMING. HE’S GOING OFF TONIGHT. NO DOUBT, HE SHREDS THE CELTS FROM TIP TO THE FINAL BUZZER” Lakers fans, no one else. No one was screaming for Pau to go for 40, Lamar to go and drop 55, Fish to shoot lights out and get 30, Radmonovich to play the game of his life and will his team to a clutch win by dropping 60. It’s not their jobs to carry that burden. It’s Kobe’s. If you can’t take that and ride with it, then you are truly misinformed.

  • http://coco-vents.blogspot.com Co Co

    NO Eboy I’m not trying to absolve him, but you cannot pin a series loss on one person. (Unless it’s A-Rod and he’s batting .150 with runners in scoring position)Anyway, a lot of this seems to come from people who love MJ. You know acknowledging how good Kobe is doesn’t mean you’re in some way disrespecting MJ and I really think a lot you feel that way.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Or maybe, the rest of us are while we are being told that Player A is the greatest in the game while we alll know Player B is that guy really.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Lets just switch gears, agree to disagree, and give the Celtics the credit for winning the damn thing!

  • http://coco-vents.blogspot.com Co Co

    Its not their job to carry the burden, but damn Eboy they have to chip in somewhere don’t they?? This is not tennis or golf. In order for any team to be effective everyone has to do their job! They did absolutely nothing to help him. We all know Kobe will get most of the blame, but come on this is ridiculous.

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    Co Co and I will be registered at Alfie and Flight Club.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    I made a pact with myself today to never mention those two names in the same sentence again Co Co. Look through my comments today. I have not compared them at all and will not ever again because it’s not valid. Other’s may have but I refuse to be roped into it again.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ H to the izzo

    Moving on…KG and Scoop’s moment during the post game presser was probably the best thing about the finals.

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    Player B must be Paul Pierce, since hes the one who won a title last night. Unquestionably a true leader who did it all by himself.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Uhm, correct me if I’m wrong but Kobe’s scary 24 pt average wasn’t really pushing the envelope of greatness was it? He couldn’t have done more? Seriously? The MVP? The Greatest Player of this generation couldn’t average more than 24 points a game on 40% shooting? Damn Co Co, we’re not talking about Joe Johnson here.

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    Still no answer as to how he couldve done better against a quintuple team for 6 games.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    The Celtics have been touted as a team from the jump Myles and they play like one. the Lakers team did well to support your dude until the Finals and then when he sh*t the bed to start the series and they followed suit and now it’s on them?

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ H to the izzo

    Instead if redundant Kobe talk,can anyone answer why the Lakers as a whole had a huge lack of focus and determination?They were not playing in a finals game last night.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    I would point you to exhibit A, B, C maybe D too, but I’m not able to mention certain names and places because of my edict.

  • http://coco-vents.blogspot.com Co Co

    Myles, I heart you! Comparing Kobe to MJ was no more ridiculous than people comparing KG to Timmy (prior to last night) But that didn’t stop anyone from doing so. Lots of people want to make the case that KG is better. Based on what before last night and hell even after last night. Timmy still has 3 more rings. Like it or not Kobe is the best player in our league yeah he suffered a bad loss and its magnified because it was the Finals but MJ had a couple of losses too. I swear if I didn’t watch basketball I’d think MJ only played 6 seasons and he won a ring in every season he played. He needed players just as much as anyone else who has ever won a team championship.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    izzo, you brought it up, what do you think? Poor planning by the coaching staff? The fact that they made it into Boston with plenty of time to spare and got too comfortable?

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ H to the izzo

    Eboy:I was thinking about it since last night and still can’t come up with something,as I said last night,Phil seemed disinterested.

  • http://coco-vents.blogspot.com Co Co

    Eboy, you really think the Celtics determination to not let Kobe beat them had nothing to do with his struggles??? There were at least 3 guys drawn to him on every possession. Give the Celts D some credit. They had a gameplan and they knew that if this series was going to have to come down to the likes of Lamar Odom, Pau Gasol, Derrick Fisher or Sasha beating them then they were in pretty good shape.

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    Co Co and I are going to Paris for our honeymoon.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Co Co, you sound silly. Seriously, Myles doesn’t need you to back his feelings. What your saying is listless compared to your normal output. Mine is always listless so it doesn’t matter what your retort is. :)

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Ok, I typed a whole f*cking paragraph and it diappeared. Whatever, it probably was for the best. The Celtics defense won. Nothing Kobe could do playing one on five.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Or what Co Co said. Eboy: Don’t you have a case to argue somewhere?

  • B. Long

    Honestly, there is a small part of me that thinks part of the way Kobe played in the finals had to do with him trying to fulfill this whole “team player” transformation b.s. and win a Chip that way so it would permenately dead the selfish talk. I hate to think the public’s perception of him would have that big of an influence on the way he plays. I’m not saying the Celts didn’t play amazing D, I’m saying that the Lakers needed that vintage, “I’m gonna get this done my damn self!” Mamba and he never showed up. He didn’t drive to the damn basket once in the first half last night.He should have been forcing the Celts to foul by attacking the basket and not settling for contested jumpers or dishing to someone else without creating a better shot for them by driving and creating space. It really disappoints me to think that part of that is because of a certain sterotype that he was trying to kill. As Marc Jackson would say, “Kobe, your better than that!”. Maybe he’ll win the Gold, recruit a Free Agent or two, and avg. 40 next year to prove me wrong though. Hopefully.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Let me ask you a question Co Co since Myles is hitting up locationvacation.com right now. If Kobe did somehow manage to drop 60 last night and got his team the win to force a gmae 7, who would have gotten the praise today? Pretty simple question right?

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    TAD, do you have a server to correct or something?

  • http://coco-vents.blogspot.com Co Co

    Which part Eboy?

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    What if he scored 60 and lost? Its a simple question alright.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    It’s called multi-tasking.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Even Jack Nicholson gets part of the blame for the showing last night. No one is without blame.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Khalid Salaam

    Btw, the Celtics won last night.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Co Co, who would have gotten the praise. Myles, if he went for 60 and lost a battle, at least you could have said he did everything he could have with his limited squad, similar to what Lebron tried to accomplish in Game 7 of his meeting with the Celts.

    TAD, multi-tasking is my middle name. Now go f*ck yourself.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    I can’t wait until Phil writes a book about this.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ H to the izzo

    Khalid:I fear that people are gonna remember this as the ‘chip that Kobe lost instead of it being the chip that KH won.

  • http://coco-vents.blogspot.com Co Co

    Eboy we all knew Kobe would get the bulk of the blame but you are acting like this kid is some damn 12th man talent wise and has no leadership skills. You are skirting around the fact that his supporting cast wasn’t ish in this series. They played well leading up to the Finals, but they ALL might as well have been on vacation once this series started. the second and 3rd best player on the Lakers team had about one really effective half combined during this series. Honestly tell me someone else who could have overcome such odds against a team as stingy as the Celtics… Probably MJ….. Although we can’t be sure because when he started winning he had teammates who wanted to win too.

  • Tom

    It was pretty was pretty obvious from the beginning of this series that the Lakers players were in over there head, with the exception of Fisher and Kobe, none of those guys have been past the 1st round before. All the credit to Boston’s D, the smelt the fear and uncertainty and exploited it and they did a great job on Kobe. Pau transformed into Kwame Brown, that was unexpected and had a huge impact. Honestly I don’t think Phil expected to go this deep into the playoffs this year and it showed in how he coached, I think he even said it after last night. Congrats to KG, Pierce and Allen, they earned it.

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    Indeed. You would have thought that Kobe played Jordan last night.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Eboy: Shouldn’t you be more worried about Mayo being in South Beach after the holiday?

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Fu*k you and your high speed routers and Windows downloads.

  • Tom

    Lakers immediate future still looks bright though……..lets see how many guys bail from beantown now that they got their ring

  • Krishan

    Where’s Jones when you need him. Farmers, pfft.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Wake me when the draft starts so I can laugh at the Heat.

  • http://myspace.com/2536545 Bryan

    I can’t believe we’re still talking about this. Mj before pippen and grant or rodman would not have beaten these celtics either.

  • http://myspace.com/2536545 Bryan

    Izzo I might be moving to ireland for real. How is it over there?

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Yeah, I heard these Celtic fellas are pretty good.

  • Slobodan Chutzpah

    Oh, go on then.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ H to the izzo

    Bryan:For real?That’s crazy!You got my email,right?Hit me up and I’ll give you the lowdown.

  • B. Long

    @Everyone asking what Kobe could have done diffrently: He could have attempted to go to the basket once in the first half and tried to draw contact to slow down the Celts and get to the line. If I’m wrong just tell me the qtr. and min. he tried to drive and I’ll watch it again tonight since I unfortunately DVR’d the game. He turned into Vince Carter last night and I’m probably the most diehard Kobe fan on here but even I can admit there are things he could have done to diffrent to make this series more competitive. Could he win it by himself? No. Could he have played alot more agressive thru out the series by attacking the basket? Yes.

  • http://coco-vents.blogspot.com Co Co

    No Tad the Celtics and their 66 wins aren’t that good, its just that Kobe is that bad.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    TAD, seriously, you may not like the fact that your boys flopped again in Conference Finals, but laughing at the Heat is easy. They played with a squad of Shia’s and izzo’s this season. Laughing at the Pistons has become routine.

  • B. Long

    Could have done diffrently. Sorry.

  • http://coco-vents.blogspot.com Co Co

    B Long, you’re right Kobe could have been more aggressive, but the refs weren’t giving him those bail out fouls he’s been used to getting. It started in the San Antonio series. I’m not saying that scared him away from the basket, but he couldn’t keep going in there getting stripped or having his shot blocked.

  • http://myspace.com/2536545 Bryan

    I don’t have your email bro.Yeah I’ve been thinking about it lately trying to talk my gf into it haha, she was born in Italy so she wouldn’t mind moving back across the Atlantic. My email is bryan (underscore) pc31 (at) yahoo

  • Krishan

    And as much as I’d LOVE to put the blame on the Lakers, Boston played beautifully. If this was the first 6 games of basketball I watched, and did not love/hate/know Kobe Bryant, I’d say they were the best hoops team ever.

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    Wow. Not only is Kobe

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Yes, Co Co, a week ago the Celtics were catching an ass beating from the Lakers in your own words. Now that they quited everyone else that knew nothing of how solid they truly were is backpeddling. I had them from the jump winning easily. That’s why I’m not doing a jig in the streets. It was easy to predict.

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    > MJ, but Kobe = VC.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Yeah I know, being a punchline is routine for anyone or anything from Detroit. The are just getting in on the routine. They got the memo late.

  • Drew

    OK, back to the champions (and I am not a Celtics fan). The game they played last night was fantastic. It sounds like the consensus here is that Doc did a good job. My favorite moment of last night: KG making the bankshot on his way to the floor. Other points being missed during all the Lakers talk: (1) Rondo really took it to the hoop all night, (2) Ray Ray made 7 3-pointers, (3) even big baby played well. The future looks bright in Boston.

  • http://myspace.com/2536545 Bryan

    All right people til tomorrow I’m off to work

  • http://www.slamonline.com Ryan Jones

    I’ve done well with this one.

  • Krishan

    Yes. Yes, you have.

  • http://coco-vents.blogspot.com Co Co

    Eboy of course I picked the Lakers to win the same way I picked the Hawks, Cavs and Pistons to beat the Celtics. I think my hatred for Boston is well documented so there is no way I was picking them anyway. But if you knew they were going to win so easily why are you acting like the only reason they did is because Kobe choked. That’s basically been your argument all day. That the reason the Lakers didn’t win is cuz he’s not good enough.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ H to the izzo

    Ryan:Give yourself a second pat on the back.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Co Co: Eboy’s hatred for Kobe is the reason why he picked the Celtics.

  • riggs

    Co Co, youre making me regret having a crush on u girl!

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Don’t break your arm doing it.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ H to the izzo

    Kobe:The man who makes everyone wrong.
    BTW,I picked the Celtics in 7 based on defense,but I was NOT confident with my prediction.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    I will go on record and say my prediction came true as well. I told ya’ll Michael Curry would be the next Pistons coach. Soon, you will learn to listen to me.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    TAD, reference my 11:34a comment on this thread and keep your voice silent around me when you are wrong.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Khalid Salaam

    Why does Co Co hate Boston sports teams so much?

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    Team USA isnt even going to medal and its all going to be Kobes fault.

  • Krishan

    LA lost because kobe was not jordan. Boston won because paul pierce was not kobe.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    I bet if we sent the Celtics they’d win it.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ H to the izzo

    Eboy:I always thought that’s what should happen,but then again it wouldn’t make Nike very happy,so it won’t happen.

  • http://joeloholic.wordpress.com Joel O’s

    Bullsh*t. Don’t even bring Vince’s name up here, he doesn’t deserve mention at all in any discussion of greatness.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    I wish they could too, izzo. Although it might suck for the NBA, if the championship team couldn’t get it done. Stern would lose his mind.

  • http://coco-vents.blogspot.com Co Co

    Don’t start Khalid

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Ryan, just so you know, you owe me a shout out or some s*it in your next mag piece for keeping this sh*t up all day. “It’s all for you man, it’s all for you”. I’ve had to deal with salty Myles, crusty TAD and mean-ass Co Co for the better part of this day.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    My humble apologies oh great E. Please take this as my bowing down to you so that I may speaketh again.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    No bowing necessary. I know you have a bad wheel.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Co Co, for those of us that missed the memo, can you please elaborate what Khalid politely asked?

  • http://coco-vents.blogspot.com Co Co

    Mean????

  • http://coco-vents.blogspot.com Co Co

    Tad,I just do because I can. Especially the Red Sox!

  • http://idunkonthem.blogspot.com/ albie1kenobi

    i blame phil jackson. i think we’ve talked enough ish about the best player on the planet, what about the best coach on the planet? he was the reason why i picked lakers to win, but what happened? he got completely outcoached. i mean, the mind boggling substitutions he had was incredible. remember kobe sitting on the bench in the 4th quarter of game 1? the stubborness to keep starting vlad ON pierce and wonder why he’s ineffective? putting chris mihm in just for kicks? he didn’t just smoke like 6 reefers before every game, he was shrooming AND dropping.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Oh ok, I actually agree with you. I just wanted to know if you had a bad experience at a Harvard party or something that would be an interesting story.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Just busting you chops Co Co. The boys around here have lost that ability.

  • http://idunkonthem.blogspot.com/ albie1kenobi

    as for happier notes, amen to izzo pointing out KG and Scoop holler at each other at the presser. also big ups to Sam for asking the only question that kobe actually was interested enough to answer. kobe was fuming during the whole presser.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    BTW Co Co, my offer still stands for you to bring your rooting interest back over to the Pistons. Unless, of course, you are enjoying the Woodson Dynasty?

  • http://idunkonthem.blogspot.com/ albie1kenobi

    Eboy, there’s more than enough blame for everyone involved with the lakers org and then some, no need to give them all to Mr Bean. remember he’s learned to share this year!

  • http://idunkonthem.blogspot.com/ albie1kenobi

    btw, someone needs to go check if vlad, pau, and sasha are still alive today. you know, kobe was a bit upset yesterday.

  • Krishan

    Inexplicably, the word rooting makes me giggle a little

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ H to the izzo

    Is it the cool thing to hate Boston sports teams,as a foreigner,things like that get lost in translation.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Ryan Jones

    You’re a saint, Eboy. But considering my next magazine story is about basketball in England, you’re probably not going to get a mention.
    Anyway, here’s the thing — and yes, of course I have to go here: Way back in April or May when the LeBron-Kobe debate was front and center around here (largely thanks to Myles and I), the Sports Gal made the point that LeBron’s game was still far too incomplete for me or anyone else to defend him on the basis of having no help from his teammates. He didn’t have a post game, couldn’t make a free throw, etc and so forth, and so he couldn’t really complain about having enough help until he got his own sh*t together.
    Fair enough.
    Conversely, Sports Gal argued, Kobe’s game IS essentially complete, which is why he was clearly a more deserving MVP candidate than LeBron.
    Let’s assume all this is correct.
    Today, we see that Kobe being defended largely because, Hey, what more could he have done? His teammates let him down, and he was trying to play 1 on 5 all series, and no human could’ve pulled that off. Hence, leave Kobe alone.
    I see a few problems with that argument, though. One, regardless of how they played in this particular season, I think everyone here would agree that, generally speaking, Kobe had better teammates (and certainly a better coach, or at least a more experienced and cleverer one) than did LeBron. And the “If only Bynum was healthy” cries hold no water — motherf*cker hasn’t played since January, meaning the Lakers played the majority of their games (and three playoff series in the Mighty Western Conference™) without him.
    Two, LeBron and Kobe had statistically very similar playoff series against Boston. Kobe shot a little better, though neither of them shot well, and had fewer turnovers and more steals. LeBron averaged more points, rebounds and assists. And, despite having less help and being the inferior player, LeBron’s Cavs pushed the Celtics to 7 games, while the Lakers lasted only 6 (or about 5 1/3 by my count.)
    This seems to leave us at one of two conclusions. Either,
    1) Kobe Bryant is not as good as a lot of people think, and certainly is nowhere near the transcendent, all-conquering great his most loyal supporters have claimed. Or,
    2) Kobe is and was that good for most of the regular season and playoffs, but he simply came up small when it counted most.
    I’m leaning toward No. 2. Last night, and for too much of this series, he did not go down fighting. He simply went down. He was not transcendent. He acquiesced. He came up small.
    Pequeño.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Not cool, izzo, more like a rite of passage if you’re not from there.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Thanks for throwing me a bone, Jones. A Pequeno one, to be sure, but one all the same.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ H to the izzo

    Basketball in England?F*ck off.I assume it has somethin to do with 2012?

  • http://www.slamonline.com Ryan Jones

    A significant correction: *this particular SERIES*

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    And GOD, this is going to be funny.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Ryan Jones

    Also: Myles might not agree. That’s why he’s the Sports Gal.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    That train is always on time.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Ryan Jones

    Izzo, in my country, it’s not nice to tell people to “f*ck off.”
    To your question: It’s not really, no. Once you see it, you’ll understand.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ H to the izzo

    Ryan:In my country it means “Go away” or to be an idiotic teen girl,it means “Shut up”,if it isn’t about 2012,is it about them turning to franchises,if not I’m confused,’cause our national team is actually better than theirs,well it was untill they started buying players.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Ryan Jones

    Izzo: I know what it means. Be patient.

  • http://idunkonthem.blogspot.com/ albie1kenobi

    hmm… that’s as good of an argument as we can get, Jones. I’m very interested to see if Myles and Co Co regain their momentum.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Ryan, can you do a Punks piece on izzo someday? He’d be the first guy in SLAM history to have an article written for him without an attached photo readily available.

  • B. Long

    @Myles: I compared the way Kobe played in this series, especially Game 6, to the way Vince plays now. I know that he is a billion times better than Vince but go back, watch the series again, and then picture Vince Carter 2008 with better defense and I really don’t think I’m that far off with the comparison. Taking contested jumpers instead of driving and creating constantly? CHECK. Disappearing in the clutch? CHECK. Letting lesser skilled and capable teammates force shots instead of demanding the ball in crunchtime? CHECK. Kobe tried to change his game to some how quiet the “selfish” label and it totally destroyed any chance for the Lakers to win. He should understand that the reason most of his TRUE fans do enjoy watching him play is because he CAN take over the game in the clutch by himself when he needs to. Not because he’s such a nice guy and spreading the ball around but because the Kobe that I know and love will do anything physically possible to win the ball game even if he has to take 35 shots. The same reason why he is hated by many is also the same reason he is loved. He tried to show he could flip the script and it backfired on him brutally.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    They never had any, albie. It’s just that Ryan took 7 hours to come up with his argument and mine was broken into 55 pieces throughout the day. :)

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    That can’t be the same B. Long. No fuc*ing way.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Y’all be arguing with Eboy like he hasn’t made it clear that he despises Kobe. Eboy hates Kobe, it’s like me trying to have an objective convo about Pat Buchanana. It ain’t going to happen. Both of sides made decent points, but Eboy is going to give Kobe’s an outlandish amount of blame no matter what happens because he thinks the praise Kobe has received has been unwarranted. I don’t agree, but I understand his point. However, Myles and Coco are right that Gasol and Odom took a huge crap on themselves in the Finals, but who couldn’t see that coming considering the fact that Gasol was always been soft and Odom has always been streaky. The real question is why did everybody give Manu the benefit of the doubt when it came to his ankle? If he would have played like he played in the first two rounds, the Celtics and Spurs would be playing Thursday.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Ryan Jones

    Facebook humor is dope.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ H to the izzo

    Allenp:Isn’t it just as pointless as having an argument with someone who made it clear they love Kobe.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Ryan, are you going to just ignore that that the Lakers are piss poor defensive team and have been for most of the year? That the Cavs concentrated on limiting Ray Allen and forcing Garnett to beat them since they were convinced that Pierce would wear himself out going against Lebron? How about the fact that the Lakers are a finesse team and when the refs decided to allow loads of contact it hurt their game much more than the Celtics? come, that was a bad argument.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Yeah, you’re right Izzo. Myles should be avoided like the plague when it comes to Kobe, and I love Myles in an online-stranger kind of way.

  • B. Long

    @Ryan: I’d definitely go with answer 2. By the way, after watching the way they played this series, I’m not totally conviced that a Bynum-less Lakers Squad is any less talented than the Cavs current one. And considering Phil coached this series like he’d rather be becoming one with moutains while smoking his peacepipe, I’d call the coaching, in the playoffs at least, a draw.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Thanks for the analysis Allen. I dislike guys on the team I support too, so I’m an equal opportunity despiser.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ H to the izzo

    That’s why the Kobe debate is so redundant.

  • B. Long

    @Ryan: I meant more talented. My Bad.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    This has gone beyond redundant.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Ryan Jones

    But Allen, the Lakers won THE WEST. The Greatest Conference in NBA History™. The Cavs couldn’t win 50 games in the poor old measly eastern conference, which was so bad it doesn’t even rate capitalization. Don’t get revisionist on me, homie — EVERYONE thought the Lakers were a much better team than the Cavs when the playoffs started.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Exactly.

  • http://idunkonthem.blogspot.com/ albie1kenobi

    i like allenp’s rebuttal. cavs is indeed a more rugged defensive team. offensive capability is way worse than lakers but it wasn’t like the lakers played inspired offense anyway.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Ryan Jones

    And if that’s true…

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Ryan cashes checks from Dan Gilbert.

  • http://idunkonthem.blogspot.com/ albie1kenobi

    isn’t playoffs about matchup though? (just trying to keep this redundanence going)

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    So this is what happens when I go to Chipotle. And if were going to compare the Cavs and Lakers respective series against the C’s, we should start with Paul Pierce and Ray Allen, who played far better in the Finals than they did throughout the playoffs. Im going to eat now. Any further discussion on this matter between the Sports Gal and I will be held in private. Expect a call.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    I still think the Lakers are better than the Cavs. That doesn’t mean they matchup better with the Celtics. Shoot, I think the Lakers could have lost in the first round if they would have caught the Suns, and I”ve said so to other people. Gasol always struggled defending on the block and was bothered by athletic people on defense. Odom dominates anybody smaller than him, but struggles when forced to defend bigger player or rely on his jumpshot. Just becuase the Lakers are a better team than the Cavs doesn’t mean they would do better in the Finals. The Cavs were a young, athletic team that played good defense. Interestingly enough, Joe Johnson had a better series against the Celtics than both Kobe and Lebron and I didn’t notice you touting him as deserving of the MVP. The fact is, Kobe is a more complete player than Lebron, period. Whether that automatically means you deserve the MVP is debatable, but it’s not debatable whether Kobe is more complete than Lebron.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Ryan Jones

    WINNER. Goodnight everybody.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Ryan Jones

    I meant Myles. No offense, Allen. It’s a personal matter.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Myles is actually the winner by having Chipotle! :)

  • http://idunkonthem.blogspot.com/ albie1kenobi

    can someone who’s watched all (at least most) celtics playoff games this year come out and explain how hawks played the celts so much better than the lakers did? i nominate Lang.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ H to the izzo

    I hate when domestic issues spill out into the public.

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    One more thing, Id like to think I call Kobe on his sh*t when he’s wrong, but this was an instance where I dont know what else he could have done and despite the constant nitpicking at him, no one has mustered a worthwhile suggestion. It seems that the brunt of this backlash has been motivated by obnoxious bandwagoners and not so salient prognosticators. Kobe didnt say hes better than MJ, Kobe didnt declare war on the Gahden, Kobe didnt pick the Lakers in 5. So when he fails to live up to someone elses silliness, that doesnt mean that this was an epic failure. Me. Burrito. Out.

  • B. Long

    @Eboy: I still got love for Kobe. No way one bad series is gonna kill me supporting a dude who I’ve rooted for since I was in Jr. High. I’m just speaking the truth. No matter how hard it is. Anyone who tries to convince me that the Kobe Bryant that played in these finals is the same Kobe I’ve watched for the past 6 or 7 years needs to get their head checked. It’s not like I think he has lost his game and will never be the same, he just wasn’t the same player this series. I fully expect for him to be THE leader on Team USA and bring home the gold as I believe he may have the “real” best season of his career next year. He’s still got at least three or four more years in his prime and as long as Drew comes back healthy there is no reason he won’t have a shot at ring everyone of those seasons. I’m not hating on Kobe….I’m just heartbroken because I KNOW that he could have done better.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Exactly B. Why is that so hard to understand……?

  • WhaHuh

    Yay at basketball in England
    Boo at any mention of LeBron and MJ. Are there any bosto fans on this website because the only people gloating are the Kobe haters who are “finally” vindicated. It all sounds so empty and hollow. Pequeño? WTF. The 4 HOF players in this series (yes that INCLUDES Ray Tariq) all averaged similar points numbers. the Lakers had 1, boston had 3. People picked the Lakers because they played better on their way to the finals, they should have picked the Celtics because they are the better team.

  • B. Long

    @Myles: No worthwhile suggestions? So he did attempt to drive to the basket in the first half last night? So he did demand the ball when the team absolutely needed him too? I guess I just imagined him taking contested jumpers all night when he was really drawing contact and heading to the foul line. Man, I love Kobe but your WAY off on this one. I don’t play the MJ comparisons nor am I saying that he could have won the series all by himself. What I’m saying is that he did not play the same game that got them to the finals and it severely damaged their chances because of it.

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    *yawn*

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Myles, I didn’t like Kobe’s body language towards his teammates and I didn’t think he was forceful enough about demanding the ball when Sasha and Vlad were getting out of control. I also think he did a poor job defensively with a lot of fake hustle and quitting on his teammates at times. I appreciate Kobe’s game, his basketball ability is off the charts. I’m not a fan of how he carries himself on the court or off. I can’t imagine that his teammates really enjoy playing with him. Maybe Mike was the same way in certain respects, but I don’t know. Anyway, you’re right that the Celtics played outstanding team defense and Kobe got no help. But, just once, i wanted him to go into Bizarro Kobe mode and start gunning. Just to see if he could do it once it was a given that nobody else was going to show up.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    “B. Long, please report to the front desk please, B. Long, please report to the front desk. There is an imposter using your screename on the SLAM site.”.

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    Why dont you pull out your handy DVR and point out the driving lanes that were readily available that Kobe didnt take advantage of. Do you understand what a double-scratch that-TRIPLE team does? It makes you give up the ball or have to take-GASP!-contested jumpers in catch and shoot situations. If he made them, great, but he didnt. And I still didnt see many other options. As I said before, he couldnt get any feeds out of the post cause the paint was locked down and Rondo was doubling any touches off Fisher anyway. Which contributed mightly to the 18 steals and 19 Lakers turnovers last night. There is a difference between real basketball and a video game. Do you honestly think that Kobe just got scared and stopped going to the hole in one of the biggest games of his life? Please.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    SEE, ALLEN KIND OF GET’S IT TOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    That burrito was good too.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Myles, you ate that burrito with the quickness, kid!

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    So let me see if I have this right. Kobe led the Lakers to the best record in the West, won MVP, swept the Nuggets, beat the defending champs in five, and now because he fell two games short of winning it all with a team that probably shouldn’t have even been in the Finals in the first place while facing a team with a) home court advantage and b) the best home record in the L and c) three All-Stars, his season (and possibly his career) is a monumental failure? Is that what’s being said here? I just want to make sure.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ H to the izzo

    Russ:I don’t think anyones is saying that,not even Eboy.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Yes and no. I stopped listening.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Leave it to Russ to f*ck everything up! :)

  • B. Long

    @Myles: Exactly, I forgot that double or triple teaming Kobe always stops him…Hmmm, You think that other teams might have tried that since he’s been dominating the league for the past decade. I guess when Kobe dropped 63 on the Mavs in 3 qtrs. that Jason Terry had him in manned up singlehandedly. My mistake…by the way I never said he got scared. I said he tried to change his game to prove a point and it backfired. Huge difference.

  • http://coco-vents.blogspot.com Co Co

    Russ that’s basically what’s being said.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    “Kobe led the Lakers to the best record in the West, won MVP, swept the Nuggets, beat the defending champs in five” etc. Are you saying he did all of this on his own, Russ, ’cause it sure sounds like it?

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ H to the izzo

    Oh and I stopped reading when someone compared Kobe to Vince Carter.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Co Co, who said that beside’s Russ?

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ H to the izzo

    The Kobe “haters” are saying that Kobe should bare the brunt of the blame,the Kobe fans are saying he’s almost blameless,neither side are listening to eachother.

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    And Allen, I saw the frustratoin in his body language too. I just think it was him being caught in between trying to trust his teammates and realizing that the C’s defensive schemes were just too much for him. Its ironic that were her e a year later with a different outcome than anyone could have expected and the same complaints.

  • B. Long

    @Russ: I never called this a season a failure. Most people thought that the Lakers would be fighting for that coveted 8 spot in the west and they made it to the finals. It was a great season and a great learning experience for a young team, no matter how horribly it ended.

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    Then what IS the whole point? The Lakers came up TWO GAMES short of winning the whole enchilada. Two more wins, and Kobe’s being placed in the Top Ten Ever pantheon, probably even by his detractors. And, had the Celtics lost, it would have been one of the most crushing upsets in Finals history. Right? You can’t have it both ways, though. You can’t praise Kobe for buying into the team concept during the regular season, then kill him for sticking to it in the Finals. Had he turned selfish and started gunning and STILL lost, the same old voices would have killed him even MORE for being selfish. For whatever reason, people just look for a reason to take Kobe down. And I’m sick of it. The Lakers lost because they were the inferior team. Period.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    izzo, that last comment made the most sense of the whole day.

  • http://coco-vents.blogspot.com Co Co

    Eboy, you may not have used those words, but in a roundabout way that’s what you’ve been getting at all day. And since you wanna call Russ out for sounding like he was saying Kobe did it on his own it seems you’re trying to acknowledge that he had help from his teammates. The same kind of help that he didn’t have during this series a fact that you’ve been ignoring all day.

  • B. Long

    @Izzo: That’s not what I’m saying.

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    Kobe deserves some of the blame, he did shoot awfully. BUt I want to hear a better reason than “he’s just not a leader” or “he shouldve just gone to the hole”. If it were as easy as going to the hole at will, the C’s D wouldnt be that good would it? I wont go any further than the Sports Gals option of number too. Hes still great, but he came up small on a big stage with even bigger expectations

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    And Russ is ready to rant, so time to go before he starts scolding and not allowing opinions. I’ve been there, B. Be wary. It’s not pretty. Dude is a roughneck. :)

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    Kobe’s not blameless. The best player on any team takes the brunt of any given loss. That’s just the way it is. But I don’t remember LeBron being thrown under the bus like this when they were SWEPT by the Spurs, or—well, OK, maybe Dirk did. But not like this. Kobe hate is a special kind of hate, it’s like he was caught drawing on the Mona Lisa or pissing on the rug in the Oval Office. The Lakers could win the next five championships, and it wouldn’t change anything. He’s the player you love to hate. And it’s sad.

  • http://idunkonthem.blogspot.com/ albie1kenobi

    big up Izzo. voice of reason right there.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ H to the izzo

    Jesús Christo,nobody even came close to calling Kobe a failure.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Bullsh*t Co Co. I was trying to point out that Russ typed the Lakers accomplishments the way most people view them, as Kobe lead them to those milestones. same waythey would have said Kobe cemented his singular leagacy of he pulled off the miracle comeback.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ H to the izzo

    Russ:Nobody expected that Cavs team to do anything but be the team that lost to the Spurs,these Lakers had the media behind them,it’s a bad thing for the inferior team to be the favorites.

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    I worded that poorly—I should have changed it to team after the MVP thing, but obviously I’m a piss-poor writer on top of everything else. I don’t believe Kobe was single-handedly responsible for the Lakers success leading up to the Finals just as I don’t believe he was single-handedly responsible for their failure once they got there. OK? Everybody happy?

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    When izzo makes an incredible amount of sense it’s time to call it a day!!! :) Thanks for the conversation though, Myles, Co Co, everybody.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com Eboy

    Seriously Russ, I wasn’t downtalking your writing skills, it just read that way is all.

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    It was roughly a month ago that Barkley was claiming this was the best Laker team that Kobe’s ever played on, right? Shaq should send him a Punch-In-The-Face-O-Gram.

  • http://idunkonthem.blogspot.com/ albie1kenobi

    can we call out JVG for saying the Lakers can be a dynasty too? (even though he’s cemented as my favorite announcer of all time)

  • Krishan

    So, Eboy and Ryan, where’s YOUR honeymoon?

  • http://idunkonthem.blogspot.com/ albie1kenobi

    also, since Lakers are now determined as the inferior team (and pretty much everyone misjudged that before the Finals began. boy that 4-1 series win against spurs got us fooled), can we recognize the fact that they got this far into the post season as an achievement instead?

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    Actually Albie, I was scolding a number of Laker fans for talking like the series was over before it started. A lot of people just didn’t give Boston credit, and only about a 1/3 of them came back and manned up to it.

  • B. Long

    @Myles: There is a huge difference between not attempting to create by attacking the basket and just settling for contested jumpshots and saying “he should have just gone to the hole.” I’m not saying he should have just tried to drive on 5 guys and flush every time. What I’m saying is that Kobe is good enough to drive and either A. get a higher percentage shot, B. Draw contact and get to the line, or C. Draw 3 or 4 defenders into the paint and create better looks his teammates. By settling for contested jumpers the entire game it threw off one of the Lakers only advantages over the Celts which is they’re inside out ball movement. If there is no threat the entire defense can sag. Take a few days to get over the loss Myles and then talk when your not so emotional…I promise it will help.

  • B. Long

    I still love ya Kob….but ya broke my heart. (NO HOMO) B.Long out!

  • Krishan

    Wait til bynum comes back…next year

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ TADOne

    B. Long: I hear you, but what Myles said is true. If at least ONE of his teammates stepped up, it would have opened up the floor a tad more. But then didn’t, and so he couldn’t.

  • http://idunkonthem.blogspot.com/ albie1kenobi

    TAD: i was one of them. i just didn’t believe in doc, and i didn’t think celtics have any closer to finish games. turned out most of these games didn’t come down to crunch time so that point was not taken. and if you have to make an educated guess based on each team’s playoff run, you’d be skeptical of boston’s chance too (3 losses for celts in the first round while lakers had 3 playoff losses total heading into the Finals). and i was rooting for celts.

  • http://idunkonthem.blogspot.com/ albie1kenobi

    ugh. “rooting for celtics” sounds annoying to me. rooting for KG is more like it. Powe too. and eddie house. and posey.

  • Michaelbchnn

    Ryan is starting to make Bill Simmons look objective.

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    Its not emotions its math. 5 > 1. He drove in the paint and got stripped, forced into a tough shot or forced to pass. And there were plenty of times where he passed to someone who just missed an open shot. Did you see ANY adjustments from the C’s when he came out on fire? No, and if that didnt do it nothing was going to open up a lane. They kept him on the perimeter and tightened up when he put the ball on the floor and approached the paint. I dont know how many times its been freeze framed and repeated that all 5 Celtics were geared towards Kobe when he had the ball. Im just tired of everyone second guessing him as though he didnt know what he was doing. Give the Celtics credit.

  • http://slamonline.com Russ Bengtson

    Incidentally, I picked the Celtics in March, too. Although I wasn’t quite as specific as to their path as my Laker-hating colleague.

  • Michaelbchnn

    The reason why the Cavs went seven with the Celtis is becasue their defens is so good it allowed the cavs to sty in the game no matter how bad they played on defense. The Lakers on the other hand can’t defend the pick & Roll to save their lives and thats A Phil problem becasue thats been consistent througout his career.

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    And B Long, Im going to pretend that you didnt compare the Celtics D to the Mavericks D.

  • http://www.ravingblacklunatic.blogspot.com Allenp

    Let it go Myles, let it go. Now I just want my main man AI to get him a ring so I can retire from watching the NBA happy. lol. Actually, that would be an interesting feature for Slam to do online. The players in the league people want to see get their first ring and the players people want to see never get a ring. Might spark some debate at least.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ H to the izzo

    Can we have a moratorium on the word K*be for a while after this?

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    Im okay with losing, homie. I just couldnt accept the reasons that people were giving for the loss.

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    Yeah, I might have to go back to “he who shall not be named”.

  • http://shawn-kemps-offspring.blogspot.com/ H to the izzo

    We don’t want a repeat of last summer.If someone even mentioned that word all hell broke loose.

  • http://www.ballerblogger.com Brandon Hoffman

    I picked the Celtics to come out of the East before the season started. Does that count for anything? No? The L’East was a foregone conclusion you say? Honestly, I feel duped. The Celtics looked like an entirely different team in the first three rounds. They looked nothing like the 66 win regular season juggernaut. Ray Allen’s jumper was on vacation. Luckily, the East was weak enough to allow the ‘Big 2′ to carry them to the Finals.

  • chintao

    QUESTION: In “The Coup de Grace”, did K-”Be All and End All” quit on his teammates, or did his teammates quit on him? Looked more like the former to me….

  • chintao

    BONUS QUESTION: Regardless of who quit on whom, how much responsibility can be laid at Phil Jackson’s feet?

  • tealish

    Ryan and Eboy speak the truth. How can you recognize Kobe as a transcendent talent, rivaling MJ and not admit he came up short in these finals?
    Celtic D was great. They committed to stopping Kobe and making the other Lakers beat them. The bench mob wasn’t close to what they were in the earlier rounds. Yea yea yea, all true points. But, screw it — you’re the best player in the world. Do something about it. Take over. You don’t get your ass blown out by 39. You force the issue and show why you’re the best. You might still lose, but you go out playing like you’re the best in the game. That’s what he is, isn’t he?

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com Hursty

    Well said tealish. Correct.

  • B. Long

    @tealish: That’s the argument I’ve been making thru out this thread.

  • http://www.mybleedingfingertips.blogspot.com/ Myles Brown

    Spouting rhetoric does not mean one is providing solutions.

  • tealish

    Is Myles saying that Kobe gave and played the best that he could in the finals? I’ve only read half of these comments so I may have missed some reluctant confession, but it appears that’s his stance.

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