Friday, August 22nd, 2008 at 8:00 am  |  283 responses

Scouting Report: Kobe Bryant Vs. LeBron James

How they compare in the skills that matter.

by David Friedman

Comparisons of Kobe Bryant to LeBron James often generate a lot more heat than light. This is because there is one camp that cannot even conceive of the possibility that James is better than Bryant and another camp that cannot even conceive of the possibility that Bryant is better than James.

Some people base their arguments on statistics, some people compare the supporting casts surrounding each player and other people offer vague generalizations about selfishness, killer instinct and other qualities that are very hard to quantify in a meaningful way.

I compare players—not just Bryant and James, but all players—by skill set. Statistics can be affected by a player’s position, his role on the team and other factors; the numbers are important to consider but they don’t tell the whole story.

For instance, according to BasketballReference.com in NBA/ABA history 24 different players have had a total of 61 seasons in which they averaged at least 20 ppg and eight apg. Not surprisingly, Oscar Robertson leads that group with 10 such seasons, but do you know who has the second most 20-8 seasons?

Stephon Marbury (6).

I hope we can all agree that Marbury is not an all-time great point guard just because he put up some gaudy scoring and assist totals.

Let’s compare the respective skill sets of Bryant and James:

1. Shooting

Bryant is a much better free throw shooter than James (.839 to .728) and Bryant has a better jump shot from both the midrange and three point areas. Shooting is James’ biggest weakness but despite his much publicized work to improve his touch he actually has regressed during his career: his free throw percentage declined for three straight seasons, from .754 as a rookie to .698 in 2006-07, before bouncing back slightly to .712 last season.

Against many NBA teams James overcomes this with his sheer athletic power, bulling his way to the hoop to score in the paint (that is why his overall field goal percentage is higher than Bryant’s, much like Shaquille O’Neal’s field goal percentage is higher than Hakeem Olajuwon’s even though Olajuwon had greater shooting range). However, in each of the last two seasons when James went up against the eventual NBA champions those teams built a wall around the paint, sagged off of James and dared him to make jump shots.

The result was that James averaged 22.0 ppg, shot .356 from the field (including .200 from three point range) and committed 5.8 turnovers per game as the Spurs swept his Cavs in the 2007 NBA Finals; he averaged 26.7 ppg, shot .355 from the field (including .231 from three point range) and committed 5.3 turnovers per game in the 2008 Eastern Conference Finals versus the Celtics.

In contrast, Bryant averaged 29.2 ppg, shot .533 from the field (including .333 from three point range) and committed just 2.4 turnovers per game as the Lakers beat the Spurs in five games in the 2008 Western Conference Finals; he averaged 25.7 ppg, shot .405 from the field (including .321 from three point range) and committed 3.8 turnovers per game versus the Celtics in the 2008 NBA Finals.

Note that James’ turnover numbers skyrocketed because defenders could simply sit in the passing lanes. Opposing defenders are also more apt to foul James because James is not a reliable free throw shooter.

Advantage: Bryant

2. Rebounding

James has a career rebounding average of 6.9 rpg, while Bryant has a career rebounding average of 5.3 rpg but the only logical way to look at this is by position.

James is a small forward who is nearly as big as Karl Malone was, so he naturally shoulders a bigger rebounding burden than Bryant, a shooting guard who plays on the perimeter. James is one of the best rebounders at his position and Bryant is one of the best rebounders at his position.

Of course, sometimes they guard each other and near the end of Cleveland’s 94-90 win over the Lakers, Bryant did a remarkable thing: he beat James to an offensive rebound after an Andrew Bynum miss, giving the Lakers a crucial late game possession.

After the game, someone asked Bryant how he did that but he just laughed and said, “I’m not giving up my secret. I told him (James) I was going to get it. That’s just years of experience.”

Yes, that was just one play but Bryant does that kind of thing fairly often; he knows all of the angles, his footwork is impeccable and he does not shy away from contact. When Andrew Bynum was out of the lineup and before the Lakers acquired Pau Gasol, Bryant averaged 10.4 rpg in a five game stretch without a decrease in his scoring or assists averages.

Advantage: Draw (James has the edge in size, Bryant has the edge in savvy)

3. Defense

Bryant has made the All-Defensive First Team six times, while James has yet to earn an All-Defensive Team selection.

Keep in mind that the voting in this category is done by NBA head coaches (who cannot choose their own players), not media members. I often hear fans criticizing Bryant’s defense but NBA head coaches have consistently recognized him as a top defender. Bryant has the ability to play lock down, denial defense against any shooting guard in the league but the realities of an 82 game schedule during which he also is asked to score 30-plus ppg mean that he does not play lock down defense on a nightly basis; however, that does not mean that he is playing poor defense the rest of the time.

Bryant understands what the opposing team is trying to do and he is very disruptive not only to his own man but also as a help defender. During the NBA Finals, Boston Coach Doc Rivers made an observation that did not get nearly as much play as it should have, namely that Bryant is the best help defender the league has seen since Scottie Pippen.

When James first came into the NBA he did not understand the finer points of NBA defense but he has been an avid student and quick learner at that end of the court. Cleveland Coach Mike Brown has a defense-first philosophy and James has bought into that completely, which inevitably leads to the rest of the team falling in line behind him.

Even when James makes an incorrect read he can often make up for it due to his incredible athletic ability. At the rate that James is improving it is only a matter of time until he will merit recognition as an All-Defensive Team player, possibly as soon as next season.

Advantage: Bryant

4. Passing

Many people simply look at career apg averages (6.6 for James, 4.6 for Bryant) and award this category to James in a landslide—but it is not that simple, as the Robertson/Marbury example indicates. As I noted during the Spurs-Hornets series, the assist may be the most subjective statistic in the boxscore.

That is one reason that the Cavaliers also track “hockey assists,” the pass that leads to a scoring pass (James gets plenty of those, too). Although I cite assist numbers when I write game recaps because those totals give a “quick and dirty” idea of who is doing the playmaking, when I compare the passing abilities of two players I consider the following factors: court vision/ability to read the defense, ability to make all of the fundamental passes, willingness to pass.

James has remarkable court vision but Bryant is a lot better in this regard than some people may think. It was not easy for him to display this when Kwame Brown was the recipient of his passes but when Andrew Bynum stepped up last season and especially after Pau Gasol arrived Bryant demonstrated that he can run the pick and roll and deliver a pass as well as the best point guards in the NBA.

James has a unique pass in his repertoire that few if any other NBA players deliver on a consistent basis: the crosscourt, bullet skip pass that punishes a trapping defense by finding the open man like a heat seeking missile. Bryant is capable of making this pass and he does so at times but James does this several times a game. The point is not whether or not this results in an assist but rather that defenses have to take this into account. James’ poor shooting takes away some options from him but his crosscourt passes give the defense something to worry about if their rotations are not crisp.

In terms of bounce passes, chest passes, outlet passes, no look passes and various kinds of feeds off of pick and roll plays, Bryant and James each have the full repertoire.

Most people understand this about James but a lot of people fail to recognize Bryant’s skills as a passer. James is generally considered a “pass first” player while Bryant is called a “shoot first” player, but last season James led the NBA in scoring and averaged 21.9 field goal attempts and 10.3 free throw attempts per game, while Bryant averaged 20.6 field goal attempts and 9.0 free throw attempts. By necessity, both players are “shoot first” players for their teams.

Hypothetically, if both players were placed on the court in a situation that was truly a 50-50 read—meaning that the player could justifiably either shoot the ball or make a pass—I agree with the subjective evaluation that Bryant may be more of a “shoot first” player than James is. However, the reality is that both players are expected to lead their teams in scoring while also being the primary playmaker. Their assist totals reflect the areas on the court where they receive the ball and the kinds of passes that they make in their respective offenses.

Advantage: Slight edge to James

5. Footwork/fakes

Bryant has arguably the best footwork in the NBA and this is no small matter: his ability to pivot, his use of the jab step and his cutting/ability to use screens are great assets offensively, while his footwork defensively is equally outstanding. Michael Jordan increasingly relied on footwork as he got older and you can already see Bryant going down that same path, even though Bryant still retains a lot of athletic ability at this point.

People get mesmerized by Bryant’s shotmaking but they don’t pay attention to the finer points of how he consistently gets open against the NBA’s best defenses, the subtle fakes and moves that Bryant uses to throw defenders off balance. Bryant can score in the post against bigger or smaller defenders because his footwork is so good and he is almost impossible to guard facing the basket for the same reason.

At this stage, James’ footwork is much more rudimentary.

He uses some jab steps but basically he simply gets by people with brute force and stunning speed. There is nothing wrong with that but those tools don’t work in every situation. James is also not nearly the postup offensive threat that he should be considering his size and athletic gifts. He is capable of getting in a defensive stance and sliding his feet but sometimes he plays a bit too upright, relying on his athletic ability to bail him out if he gets beat.

Advantage: Bryant

6. Ballhandling

Bryant and James are both excellent ballhandlers. They each prefer their right hand but are able to dribble and finish in traffic with their left hand if necessary. James is a bit more apt to try a risky pass that could be stolen, while Bryant is more apt to lose the ball in traffic when he drives to the hoop. Bryant’s ballhandling style relies on finesse and precision, while James takes full advantage of his size and strength to overpower his defenders and get into the lane.

Advantage: Draw

There is not a huge gulf between Bryant and James at this point. It seems that most of the people who believe that James is already better than Bryant fall into two camps: fans who are speaking from the heart more than the mind and stat heads who strictly look at (certain) numbers without considering any context. If you talk to NBA executives, coaches, players and scouts their evaluation will generally resemble the one that was offered above; it may differ in certain specific details but people who look at the game from a technical, objective standpoint realize that Bryant’s skill set is more well rounded than James’ skill set at this point. James’ size and athletic ability mitigate those skill set factors to some extent, so one could make a case that James is better than Bryant in that sense but I’d have to see an improvement in James’ shooting and/or a greater decline in Bryant’s athletic ability to agree with that take.

Consider what Larry Bird recently told Dan Patrick about Kobe Bryant: “I think he’s the best player in the world. I think he’s probably one of the best players that could be compared to Michael Jordan since Michael Jordan retired. He’s no Michael Jordan but he’s the closest thing.” I know that a lot of fans don’t want to hear or believe that, but what Bird said is a fair representation of what knowledgeable NBA people think about Bryant.

To read more of David Friedman’s basketball articles, just take a 20 Second Timeout.His general sports commentary can be found at BestEverSportsTalk.

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  • http://www.lakers.com JAMes

    this is quite delutional, I think Lebron is the best alla round player in the game and everyone is scarred to admit it

  • Bruno

    i’m sorry but i have to share this story with you guys.
    i was listening to a brazilian swimmer interview and the guy asked her about the parties in the village.
    she said, no, we are trying to keep the focus on but some men are always hunting us…
    reporter: who are the worst?
    her: oh, i gotta say the usa basketball team… they are always going to our building, asking to take pictures…
    that guy Kobe bryant, always asking to take pictures and then he holds us lke this (sexy grab her hips)…
    hahaahhahahahahahhaha

    Kobe is DA MAN of the olympics…
    i’m really jealous of him. did you guys see how many games he attended? do you imagine how many of these gorgeous athletes he must have bang&d????
    KOBE… KOBE… KOBE…
    lol

  • Jackie Moon

    Happy Birthday, Kobe!

  • http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/ David Friedman

    James:

    Why would anyone be “scared to admit” that LeBron is the best player? Do you think I put Kobe 1a and LeBron 1b because I am “scared” to make LeBron 1a? Kobe’s skill set is more complete than LeBron’s and LeBron’s athletic advantages do not yet outweigh that discrepancy. As Kobe declines and/or LeBron improves, this will change but right now Kobe is still on top.

    Also, in response to some who asked why I did not include “leadership” or certain other categories, the answer is that this is an evaluation based on basketball skill sets. Leadership is a much more intangible thing to evaluate than shooting, footwork, etc. Also, leadership is open to different interpretations: when MJ screamed at teammates he was “intense” but when Kobe yells at teammates he is “self centered” or “not friendly.” If I had to compare Kobe and LeBron in this category, I would give high marks to both: LeBron has clearly taken over the leadership role on his team and has set a good example by improving his defense. Kobe led the Lakers through what I called three “different” seasons: with Bynum but without Gasol, without both big men and with Gasol but without Bynum. Despite all of those changes, the Lakers earned the best record in the West and made it to the Finals. The young players on the team look up to Kobe and they have followed his example in the weight room and on the practice court.

  • Skip Brainless

    Lebron has caught and in my opinion passed Kobe as the best player on the planet. As someone stated earlier, if Lebron was on the Lakers they would of won the NBA championship this year. Lebron would of made the other players on the Lakers better and in turn would of given Lebron less attention when he had the basketball. The Olympics have shown who the best player in the world is, Lebron plays the game the way it is suppose to be played. Kobe is still all about Kobe as he keeps shooting those 3′s in the Olympics. Kobe has a hard time playing a team game where Lebron is all about the team.

    And yes FRIEDMAN your aticle was biased, you keep saying Lebron can’t shoot lol, yet you call him the 2nd best player on the planet lol. Well Lebron is 23, getting better ever year, with more athletic ability than anyone who has ever played the game. His shooting ability will get better in time, and guess what, then the comparisons will go from MJ being the best ever to Lebron. He is a freak of nature and the NBA better hope he never gets a supporting cast and a coach around him. How many rings would Lebron have if he had Shaq in his prime and Phil Jackson as his coach ? Kobe has shown just how great he really is, how many championships has Kobe won when he was the best player on the team ? Compare Kobe at the age of 23 to Lebron at the age of 23, who was better. ?

    As of right now I make Lebron 1a and Kobe 1b, but it’s just a matter of time when Lebron is the clearcut number 1, then after that comes the best of all time debate !!!

  • robert

    C kobe dupang, c lebron team player, no need to compare their statistics, simple lang yan, hindi naman tayo tanga. Time will tell, mind you, it’s lebron better than kobe. No hard feelings folks.

  • Bruno

    congratulations David Friedman, and if you’ve watched the gold medal game, you know what i’m talking about.
    greatest player in the planet shown WHY he is the best of them all, Wade probably chasing him…

  • http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/ David Friedman

    Skip:

    My article was not about who was better at age 23 or who will be better five years from now. I have LeBron as 1b despite his shooting woes precisely because of the athletic ability that you mentioned and that I cited in my article.

  • http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/ David Friedman

    Also, with a game-high six assists in the gold medal win, perhaps Kobe was saying to those who question his playmaking/decision making skills, “This is how my pass taste.” :)

  • CaliKuch

    To lead off I’m a Cleveland native and Cavaliers fan living in Los Angeles area.

    Kobe is a better shooter and has a mature jump shot. He supposed to have a great jump shot that why he plays the SHOOTING Guard. Hence the primary scorer in the back court. How is Kobe’s shooting affected when he plays lock down D? How is Kobe’s shot affected when opposing teams gear there defense towards that player?
    Looking at the Boston series stats for both Kobe and LeBron each dropped 13% in FG% from the previous series.

    The difference however is that LeBron must face defenses gear towards him EVERY night. Reason: the players that surround James are not serious threats to score or are streak shooters. The only real offensive threat was Big Z, but he is slow and easily taken out of the game leaving the majority of the scoring duties to James. The mentality in the league is that if you shutdown James you beat the Cavs. Why? Because there are no other players on the Cavs that can create there own shot or breakdown a defender. Without James the offense becomes stagnant. Everything must go through James. He brings it up the court and gets the team into the offenses like a point guard, he is the primary scoring in both the front court and back. I say that due to the fact he plays the 1 through 4 positions at any given time in a game.
    The big difference with Kobe is that defenses are geared towards shutting down the other four players. The mentality here Kobe gets his but won’t win because everyone else was shut down.

    Shooting: Slight edge to Kobe (free throw shooting) By position you wouldn’t think to have your power forward to have the best 3pt% and Kobe(a SG) is only 2% better from downtown than James in career stats. As for career FG% its hard to say cuz each gets there fair share of dunks and layups. Also, if you saw James in the Olympic tune-up games and pre-qualifiers you would see what he is capable of when a defense isn’t geared toward him.

    Agree with the rebounding if you rate it by position aspect. That savvy sh*t is not what makes it even.

    Passing: Lebron by far. Kobe has a well defined skill set and is a very good interior passer. However you need to look at what passing is used for. Lebron uses passing as a way to get his teammates involved in the game. Know that the defense is geared towards him, he uses the pass as tool to make the opposition pay for triple teams they send his way. Those assist numbers would be way higher if he had a consistent scorer on the Cavs. If Kobe was such as great passer he would use it more often. There have been countless games where he doesn’t use the pass due to lack of trust in his teammates to get a score. He may be a good passer but when you don’t use it and force a shot how can you say he is a better passer when he won’t use it?

    Defense: Draw
    Kobe better individual defender. Lebron a better weakside defender and better in team oriented defense.
    Ball handling: Draw
    Footwork: Kobe agree with paragraph

  • http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/ David Friedman

    CaliKuch:

    Who exactly on the Lakers creates offense for other players besides Kobe? Both Kobe and LeBron are relied on to not only scored 30 ppg but also to create shots for their teammates.

    Elite defensive teams (Spurs, Celtics) guard Kobe and LeBron exactly the opposite of the way that you described. When Gasol set a screen for Kobe, the Spurs/Celtics usually trapped Kobe hard to make him give up the ball and then had the other three players rotating to Gasol, Odom, etc. When Z or other set screens for LeBron, the defense went under the screens, conceding the jumper to LeBron and closing off passing lanes.

    Kobe is a significantly better shooter than LeBron; to suggest otherwise is to defy not only shooting percentages but all visual evidence. LeBron hardly made a shot outside the paint in the first four games versus Boston.

    LeBron’s high fg% in FIBA play is the result of a lot of dunks and inside shots. He also had a high fg% in the 2007 FIBA Americas tournament and that did not translate into improved free throw or jump shooting last season, particularly in the playoffs.

    LeBron is a better passer than Kobe but not “by far.” Kobe certainly uses his passing ability to get his teammates involved; his assist totals reflect the reality that in the Lakers’ offense he often makes a pass that leads to a ball reversal and then a score, whereas LeBron operates at the top of the key and makes passes that lead directly to shots. This is a function of how their offenses are set up, not their passing abilities. Did you notice how Kobe’s assist totals went up when a real scorer (Gasol) was added to his team? Kwame and Smush cost Kobe a lot of assist opportunities the past couple years; I’m sure Kobe would have rather passed to a reliable shooter like Z or even a pg like Gibson or Damon Jones, guys who can knock down an open shot.

    Kobe has more offensive help now than LeBron–particularly with the addition of Gasol–but LeBron has better defensive help; the Cavs are a much better defensive team. A lot of people fail to take this into account when comparing their respective “supporting casts.”

    The NBA’s head coaches, who vote for the All-Defensive Teams, disagree completely with your comparison of their defensive abilities. That said, LeBron is rapidly improving here and may very well make the All-D Team this upcoming season.

  • tim

    The fact that James is a better athletes is one other thing that should count for James. It seems the author gives james negative points for being a better athlete. If you can use your first step and quickness to get into a better position and get better shots or passes, and make yourself more effective then you are a better player for it. Kobe with all his moves is a very inefficient player, he has to rely more on his jumpers and 3 point shots to score which makes him a less effective player than James. Plus the triangle offense gives him more room to operate, unlke James who has to go one on five a lot of times because of the cavs offense. Look at the year where Phil Jackson wasnt the coach, Kobe shot just 27 ppg in the low 4os in FG. This article is misleading somewhat, yes, Kobe has some better skills than James, but just because youre a better shooter or something doesnt mean you are a better player. Jason Kapono’s a better shooter than James too but he aint the better player. THat’s just an extreme example but I do hope you get my point. James is by far a more effective player than Kobe is, that’s why he’s better. But the real best player is Dwyane Wade, he has the skills plus the out of this world athletic ability. Lebron comes 2nd then Kobe. Kobe’s way overrated.

  • CaliKuch

    Wow! Very defensive post to mine and didn’t not address anything from my post.
    “Who exactly on the Lakers creates offense for other players besides Kobe?” – The whole offense Lakers have 5 guys averaging near or @ 3apg. the players for the cavs >3 is west near 3 is gibson. BUT wait those assists mostly go to Kobe right?
    Yes, teams will go under the screen conceding the 3pt shot. But teams will have two if not three defenders on him as soon as he was 20ft out as evident during the Boston series. All to suggest otherwise is to defy all visual logic. They want LeBron to give up the because the rest of the team is streaky and unreliable scorers. The defense is geared to shutting down James. If he doesn’t have the ball he can’t score. And yes Boston also threw double teams at Kobe and fought over picks b/c they didn’t want to give him an open shot. But within the triangle offense he would get the ball back in one ball rotation giving him the opportunity to shoot, drive, put it in the post, or hit the cutter. Boston defensive after the initial P&R needed to rotate to account for all players. Boston dared the Cavs to beat them from behind the arc. There only threat was Gibson who missed the last two games plus part of a third. Wally and Delonte had dismal shooting percentages in the postseason with team shooting at 42%. Who needs to account for ben wallace? He couldn’t hit the broadside of a planet.
    “LeBron’s high fg% in FIBA play is the result of a lot of dunks and inside shots. He also had a high fg% in the 2007 FIBA Americas tournament and that did not translate into improved free throw or jump shooting last season, particularly in the playoffs.” – Well you really need to go back and check those FIBA stats. Because if Lebron can dunk from FIBA 3 land then you need to modify that statement slightly. This might be a range thing. 3pt% 2007 – Lebron 23-37(62%) Kobe – 17-37(46%) 3pt% 2008 Beijing Olympics Lebron 13-28 (46%) Kobe 17-53 (32%) I still believe Kobe is a better shooter but using your argument if you go by position slight edge goes to kobe due to the free throw shooting. Yes it didn’t translate but the dimensions and defensive styles are completely different between the two (NBA/FIBA). Yes Kobe does pass to get his players involved but usually receives the ball in the rotation or the first pass on the wing not the initiator of the offense. That is what Fish’s job is. Kobe is an excellent mid-range wing shooter. And honestly i wonder if you watch any cavs games other than those that are nationally televised. With the incredible court vision and ability to find to open man when in a double team. And a pass that leads directly to a score…isn’t that the point. Is it not the goal of a team to score points? And yes i did notice Kobe’s assist total go up. But I’m gonaa use your arguement on poor passing ability ” (he)makes passes that lead directly to shots.” what a f’d reason. lol. And if the Cavs could shoot from the perimeter LBJ assists totals would also be higher. But wait, we can’t use statistics b/c of the marbury effect. However its a good place to start. Big Z is a reliable shooter. Gibson is a spot up and streaky shooter (not consistent). Damon Jones was a Bench warmer with a whole 26 min played in the playoffs. He is not that reliable.

    “The NBA’s head coaches, who vote for the All-Defensive Teams, disagree completely with your comparison of their defensive abilities.”
    Really? so my statement that Kobe was a great individual defender is incorrect? That Lebron knows defensive schemes and accounts for a weakside defender in order to grab the rebound and start the offense or block the shot of someone Z or Gooden is guarding? That Lebron is a knows his assignment within the team philosophy and is good at it.

    Remember I have taken the fact of the position they play on the court as you (DF) have stipulated in the article.
    How can you rate the skills as they are and say that there is not a hugh gulf between them. (3 bryant, 1 slight James, 2 draw).
    Kobe in my mind is the better basketball player overall but not by much and he should be. He is a elected MVP, NBA champion, and now gold medalist. You have stated several times how ppl underestimate Kobe’s abilities. In my assumption you have done the same when rating Lebron. But it is only natural when “He (David Friedman) is one of the most avid Kobe Bryant (and by extension Lakers) fans you will ever meet.” I hope the Lakers don’t have an extended losing streak. I wouldn’t want you to have to shave that mustache for an extended period.

  • tim

    Plus…I dont see why the author keeps discrediting James for the performance he had against the Pistons. Kobe with a cast that included Gary Payton, Karl Malone and Shaq at his peak, lost so bad to the Pistons in 2004. That is just one inescapable fact that Kobe has to live down. I mean, this was a situation that Kobe could have had his MJ moment or show the world how great he is but it was Shaq who performed well averaging if I remember correctly 28 ppg and 12 rpg in that series while sticking a 33 points 20 rebound game against Ben Wallace in Game 5. While Kobe, as great as he was supposed to be got flustered by the Detroit defense and he shot the Lakers out of that series refusing just to set up Shaq, he just kept shooting atrocious fadeways and even fadewaay 3s. He managed 23 ppg and shooting at a 38 FG clip. Dwade nearly got it done the next year pcking apart Detroits defense with a fast declinging Shaq then the next year killing Detroit with a 69% FG clip. I mean if Dwade can do it wh cant Kobe if he’s supposed to be the best? It seems people keep giving excuses to Kobe when he fails, why not just admit that he’s not that good as the media paints him to be.

  • al

    I disagree about it being a draw in rebounding. the Numbers don’t lie James is the better rebounder and passer while Kobe has the advantage in shooting and footwork. I still think James is the better team player and thats no knock on Bryant

  • hokwei

    There are two things people seem to be missing in the rebounding, passing arguments. Because of the difference in positions, Lebron is often closer to the basket, thus he gets more rebounds. There have been several times in his career that Kobe has been moved to small forward for a few games at a time. Each time he managed to put together a string of games with double digit rebounding. As for passing…James often initiates the offense for the Cavs. He is in the point/forward mold. Kobe plays off the ball more than Lebron does. Thus the lower assist totals. Phil Jackson once called Kobe the best playmaker he ever coached. Pretty high praise from the guy who coached the GOAT. My concern about Lebron is this…with his tremendous physical tools he can neglect certain skills. As he gets older (granted, a long time from now) will his skills develop on par with his tools?

  • http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/ David Friedman

    Tim:

    The article is not about who was the better player three years ago when Kobe missed nearly 20 games due to injury and the Lakers went through two coaching changes. The article is about who is the better player now.

    The difference in Kobe and LeBron’s stats the past couple years versus elite defensive teams shows the fallacy in your idea that athleticism trumps shooting ability. LeBron can use his athleticism to score a lot against most teams but he cannot do this nearly as effectively against elite defensive teams.

    I gave LeBron credit for his athleticism, which is why I rank him as the second best player in the NBA and not lower. You may recall that MVP voters this year placed LeBron fourth.

    Let’s wait until Wade plays a full NBA season at a high level before we put him in the Kobe-LeBron discussions.

  • http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/ David Friedman

    Al:

    If numbers don’t lie then do you also believe that Marbury is the second best pg ever because only the Big O has more 20 ppg/ 8 apg seasons? Or is it possible that numbers have to be placed in a proper context?

  • http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/ David Friedman

    CaliKuch:

    I am not “one of the most avid Lakers fans you will ever meet.” That is someone else’s inaccurate description. If you have read my work then you are aware that I have covered many of LeBron’s games in person, including almost all of the home playoff games in his career. You seem to be confusing length of comment with depth of comment. If you will go back and look, all of your questions/statements were addressed in my article and/or in my initial response to you. I would only add that LeBron’s three point prowess in FIBA play has not as yet translated into the ability to make three pointers or even midrange jumpers against elite defenses in the NBA playoffs. Furthermore, I don’t find it that useful to mix FIBA stats into NBA comparisons. If you believe in doing that then Scola is the best forward in the world and Pau Gasol is the best center.

  • http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/ David Friedman

    Tim:

    Karl Malone was playing on one leg by the end of the 2004 playoffs and Payton could not guard anybody by that stage of his career. Payton was also ill suited to the Triangle Offense. By the time the Finals rolled around, the Laker vets from the championship teams were begging Phil Jackson to bench Payton because Payton was so ineffective. Also, as Chauncey Billups noted in a recent ESPN The Magazine article, Detroit’s game plan in the 2004 Finals was to attack Shaq on the pick and roll; the Pistons considered Shaq’s defense to be the Lakers’ main weakness. As for the 2006 Finals, Dallas decided to double team Shaq and force Wade to beat them. To Wade’s credit, he did just that, playing very well, particularly in the final four games. However, D Wade was missing in action this year, so he cannot figure into a discussion of the best players in the league right now; that would be Kobe and LeBron. Maybe by this time next year the discussion will have to include Wade again.

  • Wak3.Up

    face it everyone, Friedmans a biased POS. Think about it, he makes claims that Kobes teams were just as poor as lebrons teams yet kobe still makes championships. Malone on the verge of retirement? an old Payton? Shaq Defensive weakness? F*** YOU FRIEDMAN WHY DONT YOU MENTION THAT LEBRON HAS HAD THE WEAKEST SUPPORTING CAST IN THE NBA FOR 5 YEARS BUT MAKES THEM LOOK SO GOOD. NOPE U HAVENT SAID ANYTHING BUT MAKE EXCUSES FOR KOBE EVERYTIME SOMEONE ON THIS FORUM QUESTIONS YOU. THIS ARTICLE IS TRASH AND SO IS THE WRITER EVERYONE SHOULD JUST STOP RESPONDING HES NOT WORTH IT.

  • http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/ David Friedman

    Yeah, I’m so biased against LeBron that during the 2007 NBA Finals I wrote an article for NBCSports.com titled “The Accelerated Growth Curve of LeBron James” which began with these words: “LeBron James is on a fast track to greatness that is unparalleled in NBA history. He has led the Cleveland Cavaliers to the NBA Finals at just 22 years of age, four years after he entered the NBA straight out of St. Vincent-St. Mary High School. There have been younger players who led teams to the Finals and there have been players who led their teams to the Finals prior to their fourth season–but no one who is this young and who has only played four seasons has taken a team to the Finals without playing alongside at least one future Hall of Famer.”

    I’m so biased against LeBron that I rank him as the second best player in the NBA even though he finished fourth in the official MVP voting.

    I’m so biased against LeBron that prior to last season I predicted that he would lead the Cavs to a deep playoff run when several prominent NBA analysts were saying that the Cavs would miss the playoffs altogether.

    Yeah, you sure have me pegged.

    The funny thing is, LeBron is biased against LeBron, too, because LeBron has consistently said that Kobe is the best player in the NBA.

  • http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/ David Friedman

    I was going through some old 20 Second Timeout posts while researching a post about Julius Erving and I found this interesting quote from Jeff Van Gundy about Kobe Bryant: “(He) is as good a passer off the dribble as there is in the NBA.” Kobe’s abilities as a passer are very underrated by the casual fan but they are appreciated by informed, unbiased NBA observers.

  • Robert

    I can’t believe Jukai keeps saying that Kobe cannot create for his teammates and keeps on citing the Finals as evidence. Are people really that arrogant that they refuse to give the Celtics credit for the defense they played and always cite the reason Kobe didn’t played. And Jukaiwell that’s why the Lakers lost. And Jukai not making enough bullet passes doesn’t make you less of a playmaker.

  • Robert

    Look I love Slam but most guys here just kisses Lebron’s rear too much. I know he’s your boy but I hope most of you here should put some perspective first since you guys help shape up the image of fans.

  • Robert

    Hey wak3.up, and to everybody here. When will you guys wak3 up that basketball is a team game. Kobe, Jordan, and Lebron are being treated like NFL quarterbacks especially with Kobe. When he loses he is always blamed and deemed less even when he wins casual and biased fans refused to give him credit for all his accomplishments while with Jordan and Lebron its always about love. If Lebron was palying in the west could he have carried his team all the way in finals in 07? Did lebron scored all the points for his team in that season and the playoffs. Did his teammates didn’ contribute anything. Last time I checked last season if the Cavs were in the West they wouldn’t have made the playoffs and how come he never got blamed the way Kobe did when they got swept by Spurs? Why odes no one gives credit to Kobe who took a laker team composed of Kwame Brown, Luke Walton, and Smush Parker to the playoffs for two straight years in a wild crazy western conference?

  • Robert

    A example of what a hate on kobe can do to a guy is tim. Seriously tim? Shaq averaging 28 ppg and 12 rpg in the finals against detroit? He only averaged 26.6 ppg and 10.8 rpg in that series. Next time make sure your stats are researched not just on assumption. I give credit to Wade carrying his team against Detroit. But why hasn’t he been healthy and prove that without Shaq he can carry his team without him? Why did he took off on his team last season even though he could still play? Why did he let his team’s record last season be the worst in the NBA and on top of that he is in the weak eastern conference? Did this questions formulate in you mind at all before you assume that Wade is better than Kobe?

  • Robert

    Charles Barkley and Chris Mullin produce more than Jordan in the 92 Barcelona Olympics. Jordan was only the 4th leading scorer in the team so just because Lebron and Wade scored or played better than Kobe in the olympics means they are better than Kobe already? So is Barkley and Mullin are better than Jordan because they averaged more points and probably played better?

  • lebronfan

    i love watching lebron play but sometimes it pisses me off he does his same old drive every time.it works but against good defenses thats not going to cut it. his mid range is quite pathetic and i swear when he is like 32 or 33 he will be a slightly above average player due to the fact he relies on pure speed and athletism. kobe bryant in the beginning of his career was a highflyer then he developed a shot. at age 24 he used speed and athletism with a good shot.but as he aged into his later twenties he is still super athletic but no were near lebron he has a shooting game aswell as amazing footwork and postup game to rely on when he is in his later thirties.heck kobe can probalbly make another ten all star games due to his amazing repetoire.it all depends on whether he stays healthy.u remember when jordan returned he was like 39,40 and he still owned due to his amazing skill set which is almost exactley like kobe bryants. this is why people compare kobe to jordan so much. kobe bryant still has 5 years of dominence left and maybe 3 extra all star years after that.this is one thing lebron will never achieve.lebrons work ethic is good but when kobe was training he had the craziest work ethic. what seperates kobe and lebron is kobe is clutcher because he can shoot and create a shot in so many different ways i bet i cant count. people who say lebron has so much upside he only has a little left in the tank after he is 32.i hope u get my point guys.

  • KG

    and if u tally up everything . . kobe is better than lebron :}

  • KG

    wait wooww ! what about dwayne wade ? ? ? he has the talent of kobe n lebron mixed into one but very under rated in the nba. can we get on to the next rising stars of the nba ?

  • hank

    Lebron is going to be scary when he reaches his prime in the next few years and Kobe seems to be declining with all the miles he has on his legs.

    http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2905114/kobe_vs_jordan_using_statistics_to.html?cat=14

  • Receptor

    What’s with all the Kobe haters out here. You can tell when every argument they have extremely biased. Jukai, I like your argument, but the way you present them is very immature. You’ve made your points, but fail to see David’s points.

    I don’t think you can compare these two players because they play a different position. I can see more of a kobe vs. Mj argument. How about comparing Bird to Lebron.

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