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Wednesday, April 13th, 2011 at 9:06 am  |  139 responses

The Post Up: Center of Attention

Lakers win, but their big man goes down.

by Sam Riches / @sam_riches

Chicago 103, New York 90

After starting the third quarter with a 26-2 run, the Bulls snapped the Knicks seven-game winning streak and kept the race for the League’s best record alive. Derrick Rose led all scorers with 26 points. Carmelo Anthony was the high man for the Knicks with 21, followed by Bill Walker with 18. Amar’e Stoudemire sat out his third straight game with a sprained ankle and is likely to rest in the season finale tonight against the Celtics. Carlos Boozer brought some Windex to MSG and cleaned the glass for 22 rebounds, to go alongside 14 points. Ronnie Brewer sprained his thumb diving for a loose ball in the second quarter and Joakim Noah tweaked his already sprained right ankle, but neither injury appeared to be too serious. With the win, the Bulls have now defeated every team in the League.

Portland 102, Memphis 89

With Z-Bo and Tony Allen watching from the Grizzlies bench, the Blazers cruised to victory and clinched the sixth seed in the West. LeMarcus Aldridge led the way with 22 points and 11 rebounds, while Mike Conley paced the Grizzlies with 17. Rudy Fernandez broke out of a shooting slump, wetting four of five from deep and tallying 18 points off the bench. Andre Miller attempted to convert an alley-oop in the second quarter but failed miserably, much to Blake Griffin’s delight.

Los Angeles 102, San Antonio 93

Andrew Bynum got hurt. The big fella came crashing to the floor early in the second quarter after stepping on DeJuan Blair’s foot and hyperextending his already surgically repaired right knee. An MRI later today will determine his fate. With Greg Popovich opting to rest his starters, Gary Neal led the Spurs with 16 points. Kobe Bryant led all scorers with 27 points, while Lamar Kardashian added 23 and Pau Gasol doubled up with 17 and 17. With the loss, the Spurs are now tied with the Bulls for the League’s best record at 61-20; the winner will be decided tonight as the San Antonio visits the Phoenix Suns and the Chicago hosts the New Jersey Nets.

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  • RobbieJay

    damn bynum

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Yessir.
    Ain’t no team swept the season series against the Bulls.
    And I’m kinda hoping the Bulls and Spurs do end up tied just to see what the tiebreaker would be.
    A coin flip?
    Really?

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    Lamar Kardashian…lol

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Sam Riches sounding like Sean Elliot with the Lamar Kardashian comment. Not a good look.
    If Bynum is out, the Lakers chances of a title go from pretty good to almost none. If he can play but not at full strength, like the last few post seasons, I still think they have as good a chance as anybody.
    I spent much of last night watching tjhunts channel on YouTube (Thanks Jtaylor!), it is safe to say that the Kobe/MJ debate should not actually be a debate. Kobe will have to settle for the title of 2nd best SG all time. Oh, and the Big O was a beast, him and Lew Alcindor dominated that year they got together.

  • JTaylor21

    I find it hysterical that the lakers were struggling to beat what was basically the spurs bench at home. It still doesn’t discount the fact that they are the champs and the most talented team out west (with Bynum healthy) but anyone who still thinks they can “turn on” the switch whenever they feel like is dead wrong.
    This is not last year’s team and the competition’s tougher.

  • Riggs

    Kamar odom

  • http://Slamonline.com Caboose

    Cosign JTaylor, unless Phil and Kobe pull out some crazy Zen magic, I don’t see the Lakers making a deep run.

  • JTaylor21

    AllBall, you’re welcome my friend.
    Looks like you have finally seen the light on the unwarranted MJ/Kobe comparisons. I advice anyone who still thinks that Kobe’s on MJ level to check out actual game footage of MJ and I promise you come away five-finger slapping yourself for even trying to compare the two.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Shoot, I had the pleasure of watching almost every Jordan Bulls game since like ’89.
    I never had any doubt Kobe couldn’t compare.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    It’s amazing to me that it takes a Youtube channel to cement what is painfully obvious.

  • JTaylor21

    Enigmatic, what about Drose =}
    I know plenty bulls fans that are already comparing the two.

  • http://www.twitter.com/nflem41 Nicolas Fleming

    Again, I’m sure there’s a joke somewhere in “Bynum-hurts-knee-stepping-on-someone-without-knees-gate”

  • http://www.slamonline.com Nick Tha Quick

    I don’t think Kobe is or will ever be better than MJ but if the guys above think the comparisons will end today just because there is footage/evidence/stats whatever that suggests so, then good luck. Isn’t this conversation on SLAM every other day without resolution. Why even bother? Waste of time.

  • ronan

    At his best (92/93) MJ was just untouchable and won it all. Five years later, he won his sixth ring.
    At his best (05/06) kobe died in the first round. Five years later, the loss of Andrew Bynum makes the world think “Kobe won’t have more than five”.

  • Showtime

    That debate shouldn’t be ever entertained…Jordan would never let his team be in position were they actually play hard on the last games, instead of resting..

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Eboy, explain that to me…
    Having only watched the NBA since 2001, I did not have an opinion on the MJ/Kobe thing, or any other debates that involved the players pre 2000. How could it be obvious with out watching? The mentioned YouTube channel shows whole games in decent quality. I am not going to just look at the statistics and career accomplishments, it is much easier to accept certain things when you see it for your self.
    Therefore, fck you.

  • http://www.twitter.com/nflem41 Nicolas Fleming

    Delusional. Stop with the Kobe and MJ debates.
    They are less than entertaining at this point.
    No, Kobe is not MJ. Done.
    No need to elaborate, no need to cite examples, no need for any of that because there is no debate.

  • JTaylor21

    Ha ha, bout to be some fireworks going off.
    I like this kind of party!
    Get your popcorn ready!

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    AllBall, I had no idea you didn’t start watching the game until 10 years ago…and to be hionest, my comment wasn’t meant to be directed at ANYONE in particular. It’s just confounding to someone that watched his entire career play out that even today, new and old fans can’t agree completely on this. It’s actually sad. Michael at 32 (is that how old Kobe is now…I’m not certain)was at his most devastating…even without his athleticism being at it’s optimal levels. He was efficient. He rarely took horrible shots. He slowed his game down and made limited mistakes. Was he perfect at that point in his career? No. Was he ever? No. Who is? But…..the thing that will ALWAYS seperate Mike from Bean is that in EVERY Finals appearance….he came through. He may not have played perfectly, but as the catalyst for the Bulls….he (and his team) never faltered on the biggest stage. NEVER. Kobe may get to 6 rings. Maybe more. But there will always be the stigma of failing twice that Michael never had attached to his legend. 6 Finals MVP’S to 2 Finals MVP’s also speaks volumes about them and their abilities on that biggest stage. I won’t even touch on individual accolades in the regular season….that’s laughable. So, f*ck you, as well. LMAO!

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    LOL.
    JTaylor – no one should be compared to MJ.
    AllBall- since 2001?
    Damn.
    You missed all the best sh*t.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    LOL! Its interesting you mention 32, the Michael I was most impressed with was in 96 (so he is 32/33), watching some of the Bull/Knick games he seems to have a control of the game that Kobe does not have. Michael at 32 athletically is still a lot better than Kobe at 32 athletically, too.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Enigmatic, right now I’m watching the 1964 Finals, Wilt/Russell. Going way back!
    I only started playing basketball in 2001, so that’s when my obsession started.

  • Bruno

    what’s the need to efff somebody to end a good comment???

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Bruno, it was in jest.

  • J-MAC

    Kobe is better. Comp today is better today. Players are bigger stronger faster today. Jordan got all the calls Kobe doesnt get.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    So was mine.

  • http://www.lacuevacrosscountry.com Slick Nick Da Ruler

    Solid retort Eboy. Can you post a link to your MJ memories between you & your Pops? Classic.

  • http://pickandroll.tumblr.com/ airs

    how does a tie between spurs/bulls get settled?
    and nobody should even think anyone’s on mike’s level, its blasphemous.
    also, bulls were winnin and grinnin last nite! hope to see drose’s multiple dunks on here soon.

  • http://nba.com gp23

    Have you heard of the ‘Kobe Rules’??…. Exactly !!

  • james

    really “lamar kardashian” is still funny to some people?

  • Dagger

    Even if you haven’t seen Jordan play, one look at the stats should reveal the difference between Kobe and Jordan. It’s not comparable, and it never will be.

  • Paula

    Quit being MJ ball riders and quit hatin on Kobe cause you aint got game like him… He still accoplished some things alot sooner than MJ and is still good..Mj has a big head with all his accomplishments and has no control over his gambling habits now go figure. Not dbting he wasnt a good ball player but all of you know Kobe deserves alot more credit than given…

  • burnt_chicken

    if you’re talking about Finals performances, and GOATS that came through before Youtube, maybe the names Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Bill Russell shouldn’t elude you.

  • http://slamonline.com The Fresh Prince of Nsam

    I started watching NBA and playing basketball in 1992 (The Olympics in Barcelona) and during that period, the only other player who had an impact close 2 what MJ did is Allen Iverson. Like MJ he was a global icon, he had his own personal unique style that became worldwide fashion (the hairstyle, the shoes, the shooting sleeve) and part of the hip hop and global culture. And he was phenomenal on the court too. Kobe is a great player, but he has never had such an impact.

  • http://slamonline.com AllBall

    Dagger, true! Lets not even watch the Play-offs, all we need to do is check the box scores!

  • burnt_chicken

    i won’t even touch on individual accolades in the regular season *cough* Wilt *cough* O

  • burnt_chicken

    and the “players today” argument is complete bunk. The players yesterday WOULD BE the bigger stronger faster players today. It’s just more advanced training techniques begin at an earlier age now. If you starred in the 70′s, you’d star today, just with bulge-ier muscles.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Stepfan

    Not to change the subject but can we talk about how Carlos Boozer is the new Alonzo Mourning;dude gets hype on every single play. I mean that sequence last night in the Garden, when Boozer had that crazy block that sent Bill aka William Walker to the ground and start the fast break to the Derrick Rose above the rim finish. Then Boozer proceeds to get extremely hype. Great play and hilarious all at the same time.

  • vtrobot

    @ AllBall: Watch the ’93 Finals. It doesn’t get much better.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Stepfan
  • http://pickandroll.tumblr.com/ airs

    man i could only wish boozer was the next Zo.
    he had all those fake rebounds last night, like the knicks even try to box out.
    and he does have popcorn muscles haha

  • JTaylor21

    Umm, Zo actually played defense while Booz does his best torero impression every night.

  • http://www.twitter.com/nflem41 Nicolas Fleming

    Wait,training techniques make people taller? I refuse to believe competition in the 70s is near the competition today.

  • http://pickandroll.tumblr.com/ airs

    and Zo actually knew how to post up. honestly, i thought we paid for a presence down low, not someone who either settles for 15 ft. jumpers or faces up and drives to the rim.
    he’s more like marcus fizer’s more talented brother.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Zo like Booze? Really? Damn.

  • Showtime

    @ airs in case of a tie it goes to the spurs &bulls in confrence records, since those are Also the same. It then comes,to a coin toss of who gets homecourt in the finala If the 2meet.

  • http://pickandroll.tumblr.com/ airs

    whaaaaaat, a coin toss?? haha
    i vote arm wrestling contest.

  • burnt_chicken

    how tall is DWade? How tall is/was AI? Conversely: How tall was Wilt? O was 6’5–that’s at least an inch on Wade. Is Russell that much shorter than Zo was? I will accept that there is a much larger talent pool nowadays (i.e. the world), but ‘undersized’ guys still make it happen. And O, Kareem and Wilt were never undersized–they were always larger than life.

  • J-MAC

    Booz plays with heart and is a consistant rebounder. People were saying yesterday they’d rather have Amare or Rupaul. Pretty sure you wouldn’t get the rebounding presence with either of those guys. And no he is not on Zo’s level.

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    Shout out to all of the SLAM brethren.

  • http://slamonline Brion

    People who say Kobe is better than Jordon have to be young dudes that just dont know better. Its not even close.

  • http://slamonline Brion

    Before all the Kobe fans start blasting me, Im not trying to take anything away from Kobe,obviously hes the best player today but I grew up watching Jordon dominate and I bet even Kobe would tell you that 23 was the GOAT.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Personally, I think it’s very hard to say 96 Jordan was better than 93 Jordan.
    Check the tape. Remember, Gary Payton shut down 96 Jordan for three games in the Finals once George Karl realized it might be a good idea to have his best defender guard the best offensive player on the other team. Nobody was shutting down 93 Jordan.

  • http://pickandroll.tumblr.com/ airs

    see, people can’t even pick which jordan is better than the other jordan. kobe ain’t close. okay kinda/sorta close, whatever.

  • IAMORANGE4EVER

    I like how Coach Pop and Doc Rivers have been resting some of their key starters, despite still having something to play for. Last night, though I would have liked the Knicks to sweep the Bulls in the last regular season game at MSG, I didn’t like Chauncey or Melo going back in with 7 minutes to go. Tomorrow night I’m hoping Amar’e, Melo, and Chauncey don’t even play in Boston. The extra rest will be worth it.

  • thawindy

    Kobe will always be compared to mike. I don’t think its taking anything away from either player to put their names in the same sentence. Every since kobe has entered the league he’s been hearing it and has taken more shi* then any other player about it. Far more shi* than LBJ will.

  • monkeyball

    93 Jordan was the most complete player ever. There was nothing he couldn’t do. 96 Jordan was definitely a step slower, couldn’t jump as high, but was smarter, more patient. I’d also point out that the League was tougher in 93 than in 96, and that the 93 Suns were way better than the 96 Sonics.

  • JTaylor21

    I think 92 MJ was the best. He was basically in his ultimate prime and he dominated a player that many thought was equal in terms of skills.
    Drexler did his thing but anyone that watched that series saw an MJ that did whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted.

  • vtrobot

    they should have SAS and CHI both pick a number between 1 an 10. or have thibs and pop do rock/paper/scissors, best out of 3.

  • http://pickandroll.tumblr.com/ airs

    whoawhoawhoa. that comment was awfully calm, orange. who are you?

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    My only problem is that its ok to say Lebron will go down as the greatest but if you even say Kobe in the same sentence as MJ then its blasphemy. Its also crazy to say its not even close. Yes MJ is better but its not night and day. The guy hasn’t been this successful for no reason. Even Phil Jackson has said he hasn’t seen a player ever do the things Kobe can do. I think he has the best insight out of anyone.

  • thawindy

    People are usually calm after their team gets beat.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Stepfan

    Wasn’t comparing Boozer and Zo game, just the fact that they both like to scream a lot rather if they made the play or not.

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    Anyone else sipping the OKC kool-aid? They’re a good team but I saw LA beat them several times this year and they almost won sunday. What the hell is a ‘sexy’ pick BTW?

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    the gap between the Sonics and Suns was not THAT large.
    Payton > KJ
    Barkley > Kemp
    Detlef > Marjele
    Dumas > Hawkins
    McMillian = Ainge
    That Sonics team could have given the Bulls way more problems if Karl hadn’t prevented Payton from guarding Jordan those first three games. Kemp was given Rodman the business, and if Payton slows down Jordan, that shifts a lot of burden to Pip and Kukoc. But Karl was worried about tiring Payton out, and let his team get into a crazy hole. Since I was rooting for the Sonics that year, I’ll never forgive him.

  • http://nobulljive.com Enigmatic

    Come on y’all!
    ’88 Jordan was a BEAST.
    35.0 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 5.9 apg, 3.2 spg, 1. 6 bpg, All-Star Game MVP, Defensive Player of the Year, AND regular season MVP.
    DAMN!
    And ORANGE would be doing his whole “WINNING AND GRINNING!” speel right now if the Knicks had won last night.

  • JTaylor21

    I think the toughest squad the bulls faced in the Finals was that 96 Sonic squad because they had big advantages at two spots; PG and PF.
    The 91 Lakers were good but Magic was on his last leg, same with Worthy and any team that fields Floppy Divac as their big man basically paved a golden road for MJ’s drives to the rim.
    The 92 Blazers were a good squad but Clyde was the only star. The 93 Suns focused too much on offense and rarely played defense. The 97/98 Jazz squads were very good but Malone never dominated Rodman the way he should and Stockton never was the kind of player to dominate a game with his scoring.
    Like AP said if Karl had put GP on MJ at the very beginning of the series, I truly believe the sonics would have beaten the Bulls.

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    ’05 Kobe
    35.4 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 4.5 apg.
    Kobe stands no chance with you guys bc Jordan was you guys hero growing up.

  • http://nobulljive.com Enigmatic

    You mean ’06 Kobe.
    And you forgot 45% FG

  • http://pickandroll.tumblr.com/ airs

    i dunno, that ’98 jazz squad was pretty tough.
    they were just about ready to go to game 7 before mike straight up said “HELL NAH” and put em away.

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    @Enigmatic…Kobe had like two of the greatest scoring seasons since Chamberlain with the games of consecutive 40 pts, 50 pts, the 62 pts in three quarters and the 81 point game. No one had ish on Kobe those two years. Imagine if he actually had a team instead of Brown, Walton, Parker and Cook.

  • http://nobulljive.com Enigmatic

    “if he actually had a team instead of Brown, Walton, Parker and Cook” he wouldn’t have had “like two of the greatest scoring seasons since Chamberlain with the games of consecutive 40 pts, 50 pts, the 62 pts in three quarters and the 81 point game”

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    You guys think Jordan could of took a team of Smush Parker, Luke Walton, Brian Cook, and Kwame Brown deep into the playoffs? Kobe was robbed of two of the greatest seasons ever by a player with that roster.

  • thawindy

    Not becuz he’s my hero. Its becuz I’ve seen it before..kobe is still great to me.

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    Kobe had a good season this year but it wasn’t great. I think the knee surgery and not being able to work on his game during the summer affected him. I know he’s not MJ but it’s not day and night. The legend of MJ is greater than MJ. The Magic did eliminate him from the 95 playoffs. His age was showing when he came bk from baseball.

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    I know Mikes the greatest but I just take issue when someone says its not even close.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    It is night and day…..using the 95 playoffs as a barometer of Mike’s level of play after taking off a year and a half is as stupid as you using the Smush, Luke, Kwame analogy as “waster” years for Kobe and let’s be real….you’re a Kobe stan. You have no leahway to be judged as fair in this sort of debate. Enigmatic also doused you with gasoline with his 1:15p comment. Stop.

  • ohgeefreeks310

    how would it feel to at least be able to get the same type of recognition as Jordan, being compared to Jordan isnt no joke credit has to be given where credit is due. besides PJ even said to cut out the Jordan/Kobe comparison, yes they share certain “elements” but thats all they are they are not the same type of players

  • http://nobulljive.com Enigmatic

    Kobe lost in the first round that year.
    That ain’t deep.
    Jordan took a team to the playoffs, that had gone 27-55 the year before, in his rookie season.
    And that wasn’t age when he came back, that was rustiness.

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    Eboy…you guys don’t have credit either because you guys worshipped Jordan. You guys were last generations Kobe fan. So the guy from Chicago can be judged as fair in the debate? The guys who say Jordan was their hero growing up is fair in the debate?

  • http://pickandroll.tumblr.com/ airs

    matic, they were only 38-44 his rookie season though.
    but i wont mentio—uh…heh.

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    I’m not even debating bc I clearly said Mike is the greatest but it isn’t night and day like you guys on Slam make it out to be. Night and Day means there are no similarities, no conversation, no substance. That simply is not true.

  • http://pickandroll.tumblr.com/ airs

    night and dusk.

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    It can’t be night and day if a guy holds just about every regular season and postseason record for the greatest franchise in basketball and will possible pass Jordan on the all time scoring list. That says enough on its on.

  • http://Twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    Mj >Kobe. not close.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    I like night and dusk.

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    BTW…kobe isn’t my favorite player in the league.

  • http://nobulljive.com Enigmatic

    Of course he’s gonna pass Jordan on the all-time scoring list!
    Jordan came in at 21, retired at 29, came back at 31, retired at 34, came back at 38, retired at 39.
    Kobe been playing since he was 18.
    But if you wanna judge greatness by scoring prowess, holla at me when Kobe averages 30.1 for his career.

  • http://slamonline.com datkid

    kobe is nice…but mj will ALWAYS be better.

  • http://www.twitter.com/nflem41 Nicolas Fleming

    Did MJ ever have to share the spotlight? Let’s be serious? Did Mike ever have to please someone with an ego like Shaq? He stepped in as the first option and stayed there. I’m not saying Mike is at fault for this, but he stepped in as the man and had to carry the scoring burden, thus he is going to have a higher scoring average because Kobe wasn’t getting the time or shots that MJ got.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Stupid debate… MJ > Kobe. Kobe > than all but 9 other NBA players.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    I didn’t want to get involved but the level of overrating Kobe is ridiculous. This happens 10+ years after every guy retires, people just forget how good they were so they can convince themselves that the guy they are watching now is equal, or close. Simply put, .497% of 24,537 v. .454% of 21346. 6 MVP’s v 1 MVP. 1 DPOY v 0 DPOY. 6 Finals MVP’s v 2 Finals MVP’s. Career average of 30PPG, 6RPG, 5APG, 2.3SPG, .8BPG v 25PPG, 5RPG, 4APG, 1.5SPG, .4BPG. Career PER of 23.5 (Kobe) v a Career PER of 27.9 (Jordan) – Jordan > Kobe, and it isn’t even close. Not even remotely close, and you wouldn’t have brought this up, without Shaq.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Kobe’s averaged 30 points 3 times in his career. Jordan averaged 30 for his WHOLE career. Don’t give me the “he was always the man” crap. Even with Kobe on these current Lakers Jordan is better, in every way.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Stepfan

    nbk just shut this Kobe Jordan debate down.

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    @nbk..no one overrated kobe or said kobe was better. What the hell are you talking about? We aren’t just talking about numbers either bc Kobe couldn’t put those numbers up playing with the team he played for. That’s a fact.

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    nbk despises anything that is kobe. That is a fact and its not even close.

  • http://nba.com gp23

    MJ was greater than Kobe at every part of the game. Kobe probably has a better 3 point shot than MJ had, but thats all. Im a huge Kobe fan, but seriously, MJ was the best athlete ever, in ALL SPORTS. Why do you think the pistons back in the early 90′s created the term ‘The Jordan Rules.’ It’s because he was that good, they had a play named after him, to try and double and triple team his ass out of the game, ‘cos he was truly unstoppable. I don’t hear any ‘Kobe Rules’ ever being created. MJ is number 1, Kobe is around 4 or 5. Rant over.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    As far as scoring…Mike won ten….10 scoring titles and 7 in a row and then 3 more after he retired the first time. Tell me who….in the league now….has the ability to do this again? Durant? Rose? Bron? They may all win a couple here and there…but it is a FARRRRRRRRRRRRRR stretch to think one of them can do it 10 times. Kobe never even got close and he is the supposed best scorer of this era (2000′s).

  • http://nobulljive.com Enigmatic

    Nbk, you killed it with the 1:58 comment (but f*ck PER lol)

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    @nbk…Kobe couldn’t put up those numbers because of the team he played for. Could he of put those numbers up if he was in a different circumstance? Hell yes. So the stats mean nothing bc of their situations. We see what Kobe did when Shaq left and put up numbers somewhat similar. You simply despise everything Kobe.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    lol I knew that was coming. But it sure does help its case as a useful tool when used at the end of a series of other data. The one knock against PER that everyone, including me, and even John Hollinger will admit, PER doesn’t account for everything on the defensive end…..and Jordan is still 4 points better. Jordan was far and away a better defender then Kobe, Kobe’s only place in this argument is on offense, and even that doesn’t work out.

  • SpursFan

    Jordon made more shots, well shooting a better %, thus making him better. Jordon has more championships, again making him better. Jordon is Jordon, while Kobe is Shaq’s sidekick, and a crybaby that threatened to leave his city if they didn’t get another good player… SMH that this even a debate. On a sidenote, Hill should get 6th man…

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    on to more pressing matters, how many of you Laker fans have been having a heart attack since about 9 oclock last night?

  • http://nobulljive.com Enigmatic

    Oh yeah, no doubt nbk. Jordan (and Pippen) on defense was a thing of beauty.
    Even Jordan’s tongue-sticking-out > Kobe’s crazy jaw/ constipation face

  • thawindy

    I didn’t think this would happen. I wanted to talk trash about the bulls beating the knicks..stay in the present. Mike is the greatess. DRose is the youngest mvp in NBA history. It feels good to be a bulls fan again. We use to joke about the how many years it would take the bulls to win another one after his greatness departed from us. I gotta say I like our chances.

  • JTaylor21

    Holla at me when KB puts up 41/8/5 in the Finals!!! or drops 43/6/5, 45/5/5, 43/6/7, 45/10/7 in playoffs series. It will be a discussion when he scores in double digits for 866 straight games. When KB drops 50+pts in back to back playoff games, holla. Until then keep living in la la land thinking that KB is f*cking with MJ.

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    So since Amare put those numbers up against the spurs in a playoff series does that mean he’s effing with MJ?

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    I just re-watched the Shaq vs. Brad Miller fight from years ago….damn, Shaq was MOVING bodies to get to Brad. Dude was lucky he was spared.

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    @nbk…Kobe couldn’t put up those numbers because of the team he played for. Could he of put those numbers up if he was in a different circumstance? Hell yes. So the stats mean nothing bc of their situations. We see what Kobe did when Shaq left and put up numbers somewhat similar. You simply despise everything Kobe. Everyone has some bias on here towards Kobe whether good or bad.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    I have a dog named Kobe. So no I don’t despise anything about Kobe, one bit. I just don’t like people vehemently overrating people. You wanna have a conversation, talk about whose career has been better between Kobe and Duncan, that’s a debate. Kobe couldn’t put up those numbers, if he could, he would. Shooting % is the most glaring proof possible. And when you have 20,000+ shots to your name its not like you can argue anything aginst a guy with a similar number that made a much higher %. Jordan did what Jordan did because he could, Kobe did what Kobe did because he could. Kobe works harder then everyone in the league, plays in a time of no handchecking, any hard foul is flagrant, and he still can’t shoot 50% from the field. Jordan would have eaten this generation. Ask Phil Jackson about Jordan. Ask anyone who has been around Kobe and Michael, ask Tim Grover. Ask anyone that doesn’t own a Laker jersey if Kobe is really in the conversation.

  • http://nobulljive.com Enigmatic

    As big and strong as Shaq is, I’m convinced that circa 2007 Ben Wallace coulda stood toe to toe with circa 2007 Shaq.
    That Miami/Chicago first round series, I’ve never seen anyone else able to hold their own in the paint guarding Shaq. And Wallace was curling like 300 pounds back then. CURLING!
    If him and Shaq had put hands on each other, I honestly think whoever woulda gotten the first clean hit woulda dropped the other dude.

  • http://nobulljive.com Enigmatic

    nbk, naming your dog Kobe doesn’t prove you don’t dislike Kobe, especially if you’re dog’s a b*tch. lol

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    People ALWAYS ignore Jordan in ’95, as if Mike never played that year. He DID play, and he played extremely well too–statistically, he even amassed better numbers than in the ’96 playoffs. So no, he wasn’t struggling in ’95; the Bulls were simply beaten by a BETTER TEAM in 6 games, convincingly.
    The real reason the Bulls couldn’t get over the hump in ’95 was probably due to Horace Grant playing for the opposition, and having no Rodman to shut guys down and rebound. Also, certain issues with chemistry, I suppose, but that speaks more about the Bulls’ lack of depth than anything else.
    Oh yeah, and the team that beat the Bulls? They were swept by the Rockets. SWEPT. I doubt Chicago could have beaten the Rockets in the Finals that year, or the year before. Even if they had Mike.
    No Horace, no Dennis = No chips.

  • http://www.rich-imaging.com Dutch Rich

    @Nick Flemming. Remember when Bron joined the Cavs and felt compelled to share limelight with Ricky Buckets. Well, Mike joined Orlando Woolridge in Chicago and had no qualms whatsoever to let the whole league know, through his play, that he was taking over the team. Kobe’s rookie year was somewhat of a disaster filled with stubbornness mixed with a bunch of air balls late in the clock. Forced coexistence with Eddie Jones etc etc. I couldn’t stand him then and only since about three years have I come to respect dude’s game. More so for his work ethic than his god given ability.
    Mike had the whole package, no one comes close. It’s like comparing Da Vinci with Raphael.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    my b*tch is named Weezy hahahaha. Kobe is my big mastiff/german shepard mix and he’s a he. And I really don’t understand how saying Kobe isn’t in the conversation with Jordan is hate, he’s right after him. If I say Shaq is great but he isn’t in Wilt Chamberlain’s class am I hating on Shaq? There’s no hate here, just a rational opinion.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Kap
    You should dead that “Kobe had a different situation” argument.
    You’re right, he did. He played with the most dominant center of his era, Shaq. Which is why he has an outside shot at 6 rings.
    True, Mike had Scottie, the best defensive swingman of the era, but nobody with half a brain would compare playing with Scottie to rolling with the Diesel on your squad. Kobe wouldn’t even be in the discussion with Mike if he didn’t have Shaq making life easier and getting him rings. Period.
    Kobe has a less efficient game. That’s it. No need to get pissy about it. Dude is inefficient. he’s never exceeded 47 percent shooting in a season despite having Shaq to get him easier shots. And that’s not just a team talent thing because LeBron has had better years from the field despite having worse teammates.
    Kobe stans are weird. It’s not close. And? He’s still number two.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Mars

    wow MJ & Kobe? Seriously. How many guys FEAR Kobe…ummm I’ll wait… How many guys feared MJ? When you FEAR a great player, it’s more than respect. It’s respecting the beast, like a Great White Shark. Kobe may be the Black Mamba, but MJ was by no comparison, a killer in the league, an assassin. Lebron is a another one in the league. Dwight Howard could even be considered.

  • JTaylor21

    Kobe put up similar numbers? I must have been getting my geico caveman on when that ish happened.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    I like how Teddy always likes to bring up MJ and the Bulls in ’95 while at the same time refusing to acknowledge that taking a year and a half off to play another sport DOES matter.
    Hilarious and yet, oh so ridiculous at the same time.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Mars

    *Can’t be mad at Kobe for taking the opportunity*. I’ll even give the people’s champ a star and say DRose is feared more than Kobe in the league. And Stats wise LeBron will shatter all of them. Being in the league at 18 is huge advantage, but you have to be good at the same time.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Mars

    The competition is always going to be great, regardless of the ERA. Athletically, Kobe and MJ aren’t even close.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Mars

    Magic is wayyy better than Kobe, and Magic aint better than MJ.

  • feez22

    “Kobe couldn’t put up those numbers because of the team he played for.” … Kap you are truly an idiot for that statement. Kobe plays on the goddamn LAKERS for christ sakes (2nd most winningest franchise in the history of the NBA)… he had been playing SOLO from 04-05 to mid 07-08 yet he didn’t put up numbers even comparable to what jordan put up. Not to mention he is the WORST FINALS PERFORMER of the top 10 players in the nba… EVER. 41%. Thats what kobe shoots in the finals. Kobe’s level of play actually DECREASES in the playoffs. Check his #s. I don’t have all of them on hand but jeez as a great your numbers should INCREASE come playoff time no? i know one thing… during the laker 3 peat SHAQ’S NUMBERS INCREASED especially in the FINALS where it COUNTS. in terms of defense, MJ won DPOY once. Kobe hasn’t even been close in DPOY voting. In terms of offense, MJ avg’s 30+ppg… kobe avg’s 25ppg. MJ has shot 50% in 6 (or 8) seasons. Kobe has NEVER shot 50% in any season. Night and day. Apocalypse and day. The big bang and day. seriously…

  • http://www.slamonline.com Mars

    88′ MJ VS. 95′ MJ , 98′ KOBE VS 03′ KOBE

  • http://nobulljive.com Enigmatic

    Damn, MJ shot 50% for so many seasons, it can’t even be put in numerical terms!
    It’s written as a smiley face with glasses!
    8)
    LOL

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    lmao

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Bryan: Of course it matters, but judging by how he played, it obviously didn’t impact him THAT much. You really think he would have lit the Magic up for more than he already did (keeping in mind that he actually played an incredible series), even though he played at a similar level the next season? The Bulls were a weaker team that year. That’s it.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Jordan was turning the ball over 4 times a game in the playoffs in 95, and he was the least efficient he ever was in the playoffs outside of 1984-85. – whether the team was worse or whatever is kind of irrelevant, when your best player is playing worse then he ever had since he lost in round 1 a decade previous your teams in trouble. Even if its michael jordan.

  • http://www.slamonline.com melvin ely

    Chicago gets the league-best record tonight I think. If the Spurs were willing to rest the starters in LA, they’ll be resting tonight vs Phx. And I don’t think Thibs is going to let up on his guys just because this is the last game of the reg. season.

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    Kobe is overrated by his die hards, but underrated by a lot of people. If we look at Kobe’s first two years when he didn’t start as sort a college type experience, his numbers are a little closer. Starting he put up 27.3, 5.7 and 5.1 with 1.6 steals. I mean I know Jordan is better and it’s not as close as some would have you think, but it’s also not nearly as far as his detractors would have you believe. He can’t ever be better than the second best shooting guard ever, but he can steal pass the other people ahead of him in the G.O.A.T. list.

  • http://twitter.com/smileyoufckers Bryan

    Still* Dang typos. I also think the biggest difference between Kobe and MJ is more mental than physical. MJ took some bad shots, but I think Kobe is almost Iverson-esque in his shot selection. You never really saw Jordan jacking up 25 footers over double teams, or even really 22 footers like that. That speaks to the difference in field goal percentage and I definitely attribute it to brains, or lack thereof.

  • http://Slam Jasmine

    Lamar changed his last name! hahaha wow

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Bryan
    You actually rarely saw iverskn jacking up 25 footers. His height and penchant for overdribbling is what really hurt him.
    Kobe does stupid stuff. It.is almost all mental in my opinion. His actual skillset might surpass jordan’s but his mindset is inferior it is crazy. Jordan was probably the most efficient chucked of all time behind wilt.

  • http://Slamonline.com Nbk

    Oh Kobe is probably the most skilled scorer I’ve ever seen. But that’s a loose thing, Pete Maravich might have had as many different little moves. I think Kobe’s issue is he thinks he has no limit and will literally never miss. Which may have helped him over the long term but hurts him consistently in individual games Consistently

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    Kobe’s skill set might surpass Jordan’s…
    When?

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    nbk – I hope you aint kicking that dog you own.

  • dsleepy

    I’m pretty sure the only people who would ever (EVER) consider kobe over MJ are the people who never saw MJ play. Period. If you saw Jordan when he was on the Bulls, everything else seems to pale by comparison. Kobe is a great HOF player too, but he will never touch G.O.A.T. status unless he can go back in time and convince a young Michael Jeffrey Jordan to never pick up a basketball. Also, you wanna talk skill sets or whatever, maybe you’re forgetting that Kobe has PATTERENED his game off of Jordan since 1998.

  • dsleepy

    spelled patterned wrong. blast..

  • http://www.slamonline.com Tae

    I have to agree with Allenp, i think Kobe is more skilled than Jordan offensively. Better jumper, better post game, better ball handles, ect. If u add tha accomplishments, sure its Jordan. But take away all of those and stats, just based off of skills i would take Kobe over Jordan anyday. Just my opinion but love both players

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