Tuesday, December 27th, 2011 at 8:45 am  |  121 responses

Post Up: Chris Who?

Plus Jimmer, Kemba, Ricky, DWill and Kyrie make their NBA debuts.

by Abe Schwadron | Photo by Barry Gossage/NBAE via Getty Images

Christmas Day was fun, but there’s something special about tracking a half-dozen NBA games at once. That’s what we got Monday night, with a 12-pack of games on the schedule. And even if the early games looked like clunkers on paper, we got the first glimpses of rookies we’ll be talking about all year—from Kemba to Kyrie—and good finishes to boot. I won’t lie, I was locked in to Wizards-Nets for the first couple hours of the night (sad, I know) but after watching the Wiz blow a 20+ point lead, you may not have to worry about me being distracted much longer. Anyway, we’ve got a long list of games to run through, so let’s get to it.

Bobcats 96, Bucks 95

Brandon Jennings led all scorers in this one with 22 (and at one point, he was happy), but down the stretch Paul Silas put DJ Augustin and Kemba Walker on the court together, and the two-headed point guard monster “lineup” paid dividends. Augustin (19 points) put the Bobcats up one on a driving layup with just over 30 seconds to play, then Walker drained a pair of clutch free throws to ice the game. King Kemba shot just 3-of-10 in his NBA debut, but finished with 13 points and one highlight that even made Mike crack a smile. Peep what Coach Silas said about Walker in the post-game: “That’s one thing about Kemba Walker—he ain’t gonna give up at all. He stepped up and made two big free throws and it won the game. It was just phenomenal what he did for this ballclub at such a young age having never played professional basketball. He’s got it.”

Still, Charlotte snuck past Milwaukee despite a big man rotation of DJ White (who started, somehow), DeSagana Diop, Bismack Biyombo and Byron Mullens. Yeah, that ain’t gonna fly for long. As for the Bucks, Stephen Jackson had as many personal fouls as he did points, with 6, and fellow starter Ersan Ilyasova scored just 2 points in 27 minutes. In the feel-good department, Shaun Livingston went for 14 points and 6 assists, and even went backboard-slapping, which was nice to see, considering all that dude’s been through.

Magic 104, Rockets 95

Orlando is the early favorite for “most consistently boring game recap,” so here goes: Dwight Howard returned to Dwight Howard-like form after a disappointing outing on Christmas Day, going for 21 points (9-15 FG), 7 boards, 3 assists and 3 blocks, and the Magic shot 53 percent as a team, coasting to their first win of the season against Houston. Hedo Turkoglu had 23 and JJ Redick scored 20 (each had 3 threes), while the Rockets thought it was a good idea to go with Chase Budinger and Jordan Hill in the starting lineup. The only redeeming Rockets were Luis Scola, who scored 19, and Kyle Lowry, who made his fantasy owners happy with 20 points and 12 assists.

Raptors 104, Cavaliers 96

Tough night for Kyrie Irving. In his first professional game, the No. 1 pick shot 2-of-12 and had 6 points (3 came on a meaningless trey in the final minute of the game). He finished with 7 assists and just one turnover in 26 minutes, but didn’t look comfortable. The rest of the Cavs didn’t do much to help out the rook, shooting 6-20 from three-point range, while allowing the Raptors to shoot better than 53 percent from the field. Alonzo Gee took a scary spill, but he looked to be okay afterward. Seven Toronto players scored in double figures, led by 15 from DeMar Derozan and Jose Calderon, who also had 11 assists. Could this have been a matchup of the two worst teams in the East? Yes.

Pacers 91, Pistons 79

This was an ugly one. New Pacer David West shot just 3-12 in 31 minutes, but finished with a double-double (11 points, 12 rebounds), as did Roy Hibbert (16 and 14), and Indiana beat Detroit. The Pistons were led by 17 points apiece from Jonas Jerebko and Rodney Stuckey, and not much else. Detroit shot an atrocious 36 percent from the field (27-75). Then again, the Pacers shot 37 percent. More fun things from this game: Ben Wallace still gets booed in Indiana, George Hill (4 points, 4 assists) is already a hometown fan favorite and Frank Vogel won his first game without the word “interim” in front of his name.

Nets 90, Wizards 84

Oh boy. Heck of start for my Wiz, eh? The notes I jotted down for this game: “ft’s, hump, blatches tweet.” Let’s take those one at a time. First, the Wizards shot 21-34 from the charity stripe, good for 62 percent. John Wall missed 6 free throws on his own, which, you’ll notice, was literally the difference in the game. (Side note: maybe it’s my DC bias, but Wall doesn’t get nearly enough respect from the refs. He attacked the rim relentlessly last night, and shot just 13 free throws.) Kris Humphries put up 21 and 16. That’s worth repeating: Kris Humphries put up 21 and 16. And lastly, Andray Blatche. It won’t take long for anyone who reads this blog to figure out my feelings on Dray, and through one game, he’s done nothing to change those feelings. Especially after jacking up 13 shots, mostly from the outside, and then complaining via Twitter and to the local media that he played poorly for reasons outside his control.

The Wizards held a 21-point lead in the first half, and Nick Young scored 12 points in 8 minutes before halftime. But Young tweaked his ankle when Blatche (surprise) fell on his leg, and could only play 10 second-half minutes. He finished with 16, and was by far Washington’s most effective offensive option. Deron Williams scored 23 for New Jersey, plus 8 assists. And yes, the AP‘s lede went there: “Maybe Washington Wizards fans were keeping up with the Kardashians.” Expect that garbage to follow the Nets around until their play merits more serious attention. For his part, Avery Johnson doesn’t get it: “I’m trying to figure out: What did he do? I’m serious. It may be because I don’t follow reality TV—I don’t know all the ins and outs of it.”

Thunder 104, Timberwolves 100

Ricky Rubio is officially appointment television. I hate upstaging OKC, since Kevin Durant scored 33 and Russell Westbrook added 28 of his own en route to the Thunder’s second win. But Rubio was everything we’ve been hearing about, dropping dime passes left and right, first to Anthony Randolph, then to fellow rookie Derrick Williams. Okay, so six assists (and six points, five rebounds) in 26 minutes might not make him a Hall of Famer, but there’s no denying he was fun to watch, and Minnesota’s Rubio-Barea-Love-Beasley-Williams lineup is one of the most entertaining in the NBA right now. That is, if B-Easy can get a wee bit better in terms of shot selection—he heaved as many shots (27) as the rest of the T-Wolves starters did, combined. Kevin Love’s 22, 12 and 5 should be should be noted, too, before we get to the winners…

Oklahoma City leaned heavy on KD, Russ and James Harden (16 points in 30 minutes) and shot 29-31 from the free throw line as a team. Durant scored six straight points to end the third quarter, and Westbrook was aggressive in the fourth, taking it to Rubio and JJ Barea (and poor Luke Ridnour), who stood no chance on the defensive end. Kendrick Perkins came up big on a Beasley drive with less than 10 seconds to play, and the Thunder moved to 2-0. The T-Wolves might not even be a playoff team, but it was a gritty road win for OKC.

Nuggets 115, Mavericks 93

Is it panic time in Big D, or are Miami and Denver just really, really good? Nuggets guard Ty Lawson scored 21 points…in the first half. That’s more than he scored in any single game during his summer Euroleague stint, where his season-high was 14. Lawson finished with 27, to go with 4 rebounds, 4 assists and 3 steals. Denver went on a 20-0 run in the second quarter, and put this one away early.

It was so bad for Dallas, reserve big man Sean Williams blew chunks on the bench. No seriously, he did.

Spurs 95, Grizzlies 82

Last year, the Grizz took out the top-seeded Spurs in one of the more memorable first-round Playoff series. Last night, the Spurs exacted a hint of revenge, albeit it with much less at stake. Then again, with a condensed season that will surely hit veteran teams harder than young legs, it was big for San Antonio to look so strong out of the gate. Manu Ginobili scored 24 points and filled up the rest of the stat sheet with 5 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 steals and a block as the Spurs controlled this one in the second half, despite being outshot 46 percent to 40 from the field.

Memphis’s starting lineup is as advertised—Mike Conley (11), Marc Gasol (13),  Rudy Gay (19) and Zach Randolph (10) scored in double figures, and Tony Allen did his thing on defense. But the Grizzlies are thin as can be. Lionel Hollins got only minimal contributions from OJ Mayo and Sam Young, and almost nothing from the four other guys he tried. Depth will be the end of the Grizzlies unless someone emerges or they can make a move. Simple as that.

Hornets 85, Suns 84

Happy Birthday, Eric Gordon. A day after EG turned 23 years old, he turned in an “eff you LA” performance against the Suns, capped off by a 20-footer with 4.2 seconds remaining to give the Hornets their first win in the post-Chris Paul era. Gordon scored 20 points for New Orleans, provided the clutch fireworks when called on, and did it all like he’d done it before. A Star is Born? Was he already? Does playing in New Orleans mean you can’t really be a star? Help! With Jarret Jack serving a suspension, Marco Belinelli got the start at the other guard spot, but Greivis Vasquez essentially played the PG minutes, and looked like a shrewd pick-up for the Hornets. New Orleans might be a fringe playoff team, but they’re versatile and have depth. Also, backup point guard Squeaky Johnson might have delivered the post-game tweet of the night.

Steve Nash delivered a classic 14-point, 12-assist night, while Phoenix got a huge boost off the bench from the less-heralded, more Sideshow Bob-looking Lopez twin, Robin, who put up 21 and 7 in 27 minutes. He outplayed new addition Shannon Brown, who shot just 1-8 (2 points) in 20 minutes.

Kings 100, Lakers 91

Laker haters, eat your heart out. L.A. sits at 0-2 after losing a seemingly impossible-to-lose game at Sacramento. The Lakers haven’t started 0-3 since 1978. They get Utah tonight. Think Kobe is angry? Well, he scored 29 in the loss to the Kings (plus 6 dimes and 5 boards), while the rest of the Lake Show didn’t show. Metta World Peace scored 19 and Pau Gasol had 15, but the Lakers shot 1-for-16 from 3-point land, and trailed basically the whole way in this one, as Marcus Thornton and Tyreke Evans teamed up for 47 from the Kings backcourt. The Sac-Town crowd delighted with “Beat L.A.” chants late in the second half, while The Jimmer played 26 minutes and scored 6 points, despite not attempting even one trey ball. And damn, those black Kings jerseys are fire. And Gavin Maloof is extra excited about these things.

Trail Blazers 107, Sixers 103

LaMarcus Aldridge scored 25 points, and Gerald Wallace had 21 and 9, as the Blazers held off a late surge for the Sixers. Portland went up 95-80 late before Lou Williams scored 10 straight points for Philly to help bring the Sixers within three with 16 seconds left. It was too little too late for Philadelphia, who opened the game missing 11 of its first 16 shots. Williams scored 25 off the bench, and Andre Iguodala put up 22 and 8 in 40 minutes. The performance of the game, though, came from an unlikely name, as Sixers center Spencer Hawes flirted with a triple-double (10/13/9).

Portland looked strong despite losing some key pieces, and got 29 minutes from the oft-injured Marcus Camby. Oh, and Jamal Crawford (12 points, 4 rebounds, 4 assists, 4 steals in 22 minutes) is so perfect in Portland. Those fans will love him.

Warriors 99, Bulls 91

Stephen Curry’s ankle woes just won’t go away. He led Golden State to an impressive victory—and the first for Mark Jackson as an NBA head coach—but rolled his ankle yet again in the waning moments of the game. Good thing he got in his work early: 21 points, 7 boards, 10 assists, 6 steals in 37 minutes. Monta Ellis added 26 and David Lee chipped in 22 as the Warriors jumped out to a big early lead on the MVP and the Bulls, then hung on for dear life. Luol Deng led the way for Chicago with 22 points and 10 rebounds, but Derrick Rose struggled to a 13-8-5 line, and shot just 4-of-17 from the floor.

Line of the Night: Spencer Hawes’ 10 points, 14 rebounds, 9 assists. I’m sorry, but any time Spencer friggin’ Hawes is 1 assist shy of a triple-double, it’s worthy of this award. Can you imagine the reaction if he’d dropped that last dime? Might Twitter have exploded, along with Nate McMillan’s head?

Moment of the Night: Eric Gordon, FTW. It was against the Suns, but it was for the Clippers.

Tonight: TNT has Celtics-Heat and Jazz-Lakers for its first doubleheader of the season, and we get Rubio vs. Jennings in Milwaukee at 8:30. Plus, Hawks-Nets and the Kings in Rip City against the Blazers.

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  • ThaWindy

    If only Boozer can miss his flight to Sac-Town and catch another flight that flys him over the Bermuda Triangle…problem solved.

  • http://nyill.wordpress.com Enigmatic

    We all know the MIP goes to whoever’s stats go up, not to who really improved the most.
    Yeah, I know it won’t happen, but he does deserve more love from whoever votes for All-Defensive team.
    Was that coaches or writers? I’m guessing coaches since Kobe made 1st team again.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    (All)All-NBA Teams are voted on by coaches if i’m not mistaken.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    I think MIP going to come down too, Demarcus Cousins, Spencer Hawes, & Terrence Williams (after 1 game lol)

  • T-Ray

    Don’t know rather to read too much into the Laker loss or not..like Drake said LORD KNOWS! but one thing is for sure Marcus Thornton is that dude! Bulls looked lazy and Boozer is making himself look more over paid than Rashard Lewis was. The Mavs well what can you say…OH and Humphries should be booed more if he puts those numbers up either the boos did it or that Kim K got that good good lol

  • Kadavour

    Boozer was plenty effective in the pick and roll when Deron was getting him the ball. Rose just doesn’t look comfortable creating for others. one can literally see him missing opportunities. He creates for himself, but this kid doesn’t have the point guard awareness to put his team mates in spots that make the game easier for them. with his penetration abilities the drive and kick game to dudes like Deng and Hamilton should be butter.

  • bashmo

    The title of this post up is disrespectful to the best point guard in the league since Steve Nash

  • chingy

    Lu is consistently the Bull’s second best player (and sometimes best). Boozer needs to find his place on the bench. Rubio’s bounce passes == Steve Nashty’s bounce passes. The Cavs are a joke; tho Tristan looked good. As much as I don’t want to say this, the Grizz MIGHT be a one hit wonder. And as we all type/comment on this board, Mamba has steam coming out of his head.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    and knees.

  • http://nyill.wordpress.com Enigmatic

    SLAM, If none of your writers submit or y’all don’t post a story on Mac Irvin’s passing, I swear I’ll type one up myself and email it to Ryne and Adam every day until it gets posted.
    But that story NEEDS to be told on here.

  • http://nyill.wordpress.com Enigmatic

    OK, I wouldn’t do that. But a story on the man would still be nice on here.

  • T-Money

    rubio played well yesterday, i like the court vision obviously but i’m going to lose it if i hear jason kidd one more time – just let him grow. i’m still worried about the scoring and the defense (russ westbrook and james harden beat him in straight lines in the last 2 mins, they didn’t even try to shake him off, just first step and go). / if minny is thinking about maxing out kevin love, shouldn’t they try to see if they can run the offense through him? 27 shots for beas, really?!

  • http://nyill.wordpress.com Enigmatic

    Sneakerheads need to read the homie O’s latest article on our blog. DOPE read. As always, click my name for NYILL.
    Someone on Twitter said last night that first round pick of Minny’s than NO has doesn’t look so valuable anymore.
    Really? I think they’re still a lottery team. That makes the pick pretty valuable still for a deep draft.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    It’s weird that Rick Adelman’s offense doesn’t run through Love. Or Darko for that matter. I wonder if that was just like a scratch on their offensive “cd” (system) that will get smoothed out. Or if Beasley was just trying out for other teams…..

  • http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hamilri01.html Allenp

    Kadavour
    I disagree on Boozer and Deron. Boozer was effective in the offensive system that helped make Karl Malone an NBA superstar and got Millsap a monster contract. It wasn’t his point guard that made him better, although Deron helped.
    Boozer is the same player he always was. I have been down on him for years because I saw how he hurt Deron in the long run. You need to ease up on Rose. Dude is the third best point in the League, in my opinion.

  • http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hamilri01.html Allenp

    And Beasley is a horrendous chucker. I watched some of that game and was so pissed at him for some of those shots he forced. It’s crazy.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Boozer is a good regular season player, if you can get him for what Utah got Millsap. Overpaying him just to get someone during the summer of 2010 was a huge mistake though (imo). If they didn’t do that, they would have been able to compete for all the other big names that have switched/or will switch teams since that summer.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    @ Orange: That’s dope! I want to see Lin get minutes before Baron comes back… I have a feeling he can play.

  • chingy

    But Beasley’s so good in 2k12!! He must be deserving of those 27(!) shots.

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    How has none of you had a go at the name SQUEAKY Johnson yet?

  • http://nyill.wordpress.com Enigmatic

    The Bulls INSIST Boozer was their number one PF they targeted last summer all along.
    I disagree. They weren’t really interested in Amare or Lee, but they definitely wanted Bosh more than they wanted Boozer.
    After Bosh joined up with Wade in Miami, the Bulls quickly inked Boozer.
    Signing Boozer was a risk the Bulls took to try and entice LeBron James to sign with them. They knew he wouldn’t go over there by himself without another top free agent because, well, Rose Deng and Noah somehow just weren’t enough for old Bron Bron (or more likely, he planned to go to Miami with Wade and Bosh all along).
    So they signed Booz, who quickly became the player/recruiter that Rose was (and still is) reluctant to be. Boozer and James are friends and former teammates on the Cavs and the Olympics.
    They figured best case scenario Bron could get got, worst case scenario at least they’ve got a 20/10 guy signed and they’d still have money left over for quality role players.
    We all know how it turned out. Heat got James, Bulls got Korver, Brewer, Watson and some other cats.
    And are stuck with Boozer, who is wildly inconsistent and injury-prone.
    If they could trade him for an expiring contract that would be ideal but not possible because a team is not going to take on that huge contract of his, especially not for something as valuable as an expiring contract.
    I really do think if Boozer underachieves again this season, the Bulls have to amnesty him next offseason. Fact of the matter is, with Rose set to make a whole sh*tload of money (deservedly so), either Boozer, Noah or Deng is gonna have to go soon anyways. May as well amnesty Boozer.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Malone would have been a superstar in any offense.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Rockets need to start Marcus Morris and Terrence Williams ahead of Chase Buddinger.

  • http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hamilri01.html Allenp

    JTaylor
    I don’t know about that, to be honest. Dude wasn’t a great post player as far as scoring with his back to the basket. He hit the boards, he ran the floor, and he developed a jumper. Utah’s offense, with the cuts and screens, creates great touches in great spots for big men.
    It’s not just dump it into the post and go to work, which is what I see the Bulls doing a lot with Boozer.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Malone wasn’t really a great 1 on 1 scorer until he was in his 30′s. Before that he was basically the 80′s version of Amar’e Stoudemire. (less flashy, not as much range though)

  • LA Huey

    I agree with JTaylor. Mailman was an intelligent, hardworking player. He would have molded his skill set to excel any system. The stability of having Sloan coach him for all those years probably helped a bit but I don’t think he drops off enough to invalidate 1st ballot HOFer status.

  • http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hamilri01.html Allenp

    Exactly NBK.
    Even when he was older he wasn’t “great” on the block. Against inferior bigs he knew how to use his bulk to bully them, and he had that quirky right-handed hook shot where you initiated contact with his left arm and tended to get the foul call.
    But, when do you remember Malone just unveiling crazy post moves? Never. He was a pick and roll guy early, a pick and pop guy late. always ran in transition, rebounded well, always knew how to find creases to find those nice passes from Stockton. That’s what he did, and he did it great.
    Boozer can do a lot of those things, just not as effectively. And he struggles to score on the block. He’s undersized, isn’t a great athlete, and tends to prefer to shoot jumpers.

  • http://nyill.wordpress.com Enigmatic

    Karl Malone is the greatest 4 of all time.

  • http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hamilri01.html Allenp

    Duncan

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Well Malone was such a big guy in the paint. And he had terrific timing & hands. I think he would have been a 20 and 10 PF on any team in the league. But I don’t however think he was a shoe-in for the HOF in any system other than Utah’s. He really benefited from having Stockton (obviously). His efficiency was way higher than it would have been without him.

  • http://nyill.wordpress.com Enigmatic

    Nah.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Yes, Duncan is the best PF ever. I don’t feel like it’s even close.

  • http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hamilri01.html Allenp

    Man, y’all are underestimating the impact location and teammates have on certain players.
    Take Steve Nash for instance. Nash is a Hall of Famer. One of the top ten point guards of all time. But, if he doesn’t go to Phoenix, and doesn’t meet D’Antoni and doesn’t hook up with Marion and Amare, that does not happen. That was not his career path at all.
    Malone coming out of college had some serious holes in his game. He deserves credit for putting in the work, but the reality is that who he played with, and the way they played helped him be incredible. If he was asked to play in a way that did not cater to his strengths, or he was surrounded by players who did know how to blend with him, things could have been very different for him.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    I see where y’all are coming from but Malone’s work ethic was legendary. The guy would have adapted and thrived in any system (the same way Amare thrived in NY after everyone said that Nash and PHX’s offense were the reasons for his monster numbers). I think most people sell Malone short because he played with Stock and JSloan for the majority of his career. Bird played in a system that revolved around a dominant frontline (probably the best ever) for the majority of his prime yet no one holds that against him, malone should be afforded the same luxury.

  • http://bleacherreport.com/articles/845438-the-ultimate-goat-debate/page/13 nbk

    NBA Titles:
    Duncan: 3 nba championships
    Malone: 3 western conference titles

    finals mvps:
    Duncan: 3
    Malone: 0

    season mvp:
    Duncan: 2
    Malone: 2

    olympic medals:
    Duncan: 1 Bronze
    Malone: 2 Gold

    rookie success:
    Duncan: 1998 Rookie of the Year
    Malone: 1985 NBA All-Rookie Team

    all-star mvps:
    Duncan: 1
    Malone: 1

    career stats:
    Duncan: 21. 8 ppg, 11.9 rpg, 2.5 bpg, 3.2 apg, 50.9 fg%
    Malone: 25.0 ppg, 10.1 rpg, .70 bpg, 3.6 apg, 51. 6 fg%

    – Click my name for more reasons that Duncan >>>>>>>>>> Malone

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    I’ll give the edge to TD due to defense but it’s close. Malone’s legendary longevity and consistency makes it a close race.
    AllenP, so you’re saying that if Bron goes to DET instead of CLE and wasn’t handed the keys to the offense at such a young age, his career would have gone differently?

  • http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hamilri01.html Allenp

    JTaylor
    Let me say that this is all speculation, so I don’t think you are crazy for believing what you believe.
    But you’re crazy. Lol.
    Only fools thought Amare was what he was because of Nash. They ignored that Amare was rookie of the year fresh out of high school with one of the rawest games in the League. Nash helped him play more efficiently, but that uptempo system and the fact that he played out of position were the biggest reasons for why he was incredibly dominant. Dude is one of the best pick and roll finishers of all-time, he added a great jumpshot. He is a natural scorer, and was a natural scorer before he met Steve Nash. Only fools didn’t notice that.
    Bird would have dominated no matter who he played for because when you look at his skillset, it was built for success. Same for Hakeem, same for Jordan. they might not have won championships in other situations, but individually, they would have still been incredibly dominant.

  • http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hamilri01.html Allenp

    Nah, Bron was a super human talent. I’m not arguing that Malone was untalented, I’m arguing that he wasn’t a transcendent talent like Jordan or Bird or Magic or Hakeem or Bron. Those cats were so good, they could make any team better just be doing what they do. Malone made his team great, but his team also made him great. I think there are different types and levels of superstars.
    Also, defense is not close between Duncan and Malone. Duncan was an elite defender from the time he entered the league and for roughly the next dozen years. Not good, elite. Malone scored more buckets, but he never was the one-on-one scoring threat that Duncan was in his prime. Never.

  • http://nyill.wordpress.com Enigmatic

    I know I’m in the minority on this and y’all think I’m speaking reckless right now, but…while Duncan is an amazing, amazing player and his defense is head and shoulders what Malone’s used to be, I just think Malone not getting a ring is what in many people’s minds puts Duncan above him.
    Look at nbk’s 3:45 comment for proof.
    Soop, how many rings would Duncan have won if his career lasted from 1985 to 2004? Assuming he was 40 years old by ’04 like Malone was?
    And are you really gonna bring up their rookie season accomplishments?
    Malone was a rookie the same year as guys named Ewing, Mulling, Schrempf and Dumars.
    Duncan came in same year as Chauncey Billups, who barely played, Tracy McGrady, who barely played and um….that’s about it. He had no completion for ROY. Keith Van Horn maybe. Ron Mercer? Tony Battie?
    Plus Duncan was an uber-NBA ready four-year college player who landed on one of the best teams in the L that happened to have a down year.
    And I was gonna click your name until I saw it said “Bleacher Report”…no thanks.
    To be fair, I have Duncan and Malone neck and neck almost with Malone just BARELY coming out on top…but it’s mostly due to the huge amount of respect I have for dude battling my Bulls in those back to back finals.
    I have Malone 1 and Duncan 1A but I’m not mad at peeps who have Duncan 1st…although they get mighty upset when I say Malone’s 1st. LOL good cause I was bored today.

  • http://bleacherreport.com/articles/845438-the-ultimate-goat-debate/page/13 nbk

    Duncan’s averages have gone down since they comparison was written. For the record. I was just showing accomplishments.

  • http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hamilri01.html Allenp

    I don’t get upset, but I’m very surprised. You’re the only person I know who believes that.
    To me, Duncan could score as well as Malone, although never matched his sheer volume of points. He could also score in a variety of ways, which Malone did not truly match. He was an elite defender, he had a lot of clutch plays in clutch moments and he was the centerpiece of four championship teams, including one in his second year. I know his comp wasn’t on the same level as Malone’s but he did have to battle with Shaq and Kobe’s Lakers. He did beat the Pistons too.

  • http://bleacherreport.com/articles/845438-the-ultimate-goat-debate/page/13 nbk

    idk if Duncan would have a ring or not if he was drafted sooner. But I definitely would bet on Duncan matching his production on any other team in the league way way way before I would bet Malone could duplicate his career somewhere else, specifically somewhere that John Stockton isn’t. Duncan made San Antonio a championship defense, next to Francisco Elson and Frabricio Oberto!!!! Every player on that team that played more than 15 minutes per game for the season other than Tony Parker & Manu Ginobili was over 30. That’s a pretty great accomplishment in any era (imo)

  • http://bleacherreport.com/articles/845438-the-ultimate-goat-debate/page/13 nbk

    Why don’t you like bleacherreport? because they release some stuff that is ridiculous? Cuz Slam does that too. And so does just about every other publication on earth.

  • http://nyill.wordpress.com Enigmatic

    Because they let anyone write an article about anything and I’m convinced they don’t even edit them first

  • http://slam.online house

    Well we all knew Boozer sucks but now Rip Hamilton as well? I seriously hope that the Bulls org realizes (yesterday) that Boozer’s play is a liability and ships his a** outta Chi-town. He gives the Bulls nothing but bad defence, scorers are a dime a dozen in the NBA…. I wonder if we can clone Luol Deng somehow…….sure we would give up some size but damn, the positives outweigh the negatives HUGELY in that regard.

  • LA Huey

    Duncan > Mailman. Malone held his own on defense but Duncan’s D had to be accounted for by an opposing teams gameplan. Someone that impacts more than just his assigned player defensively is equivalent to a 20ppg scorer.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    AllenP, I concede you’re probably right but I find it hard to believe that a man of Malone’s talent and work ethic wouldn’t put up HOF-caliber and record breaking numbers without the services of Stock and Sloan’s jazz. This was the same cat that came into the league as an average mid-range shooter and retired as one of the greatest mid-range shooter of all-time.

  • http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hamilri01.html Allenp

    That is an interesting theory.

  • http://bleacherreport.com/articles/845438-the-ultimate-goat-debate/page/13 nbk

    oh ok, was seriously asking, I don’t read it very often. Just get referenced there when I look for articles to compare guys all-time.

  • http://nyill.wordpress.com Enigmatic

    Pretty much anyone with any opinion about anything sports related can publish an article on there.
    So if I decide to write an article about how Matt Carroll is the best shooting guard in the NBA I’d just have to sign up and post it and some poor guy googling “who is the best shooting guard in the NBA” will be directed to my article.
    They have legit writers but most aren’t.

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