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Tuesday, April 17th, 2012 at 4:40 pm  |  96 responses

Gordon Hayward Wanted to Fight Delonte West After ‘Wet Willie’


The video footage certainly doesn’t make it seem like Gordon Hayward wanted any part of Delonte West after getting a finger shoved in his ear last night, but Hayward claims that he initially thought about throwing down with West. Per the AP: “Utah Jazz swingman Gordon Hayward said he initially felt like ripping Delonte West’s finger off and fighting him after he jabbed it into Hayward’s right ear during the second quarter of Monday night’s triple-overtime win against Dallas. ‘I wanted to fight right there, but you can’t do that,’ Hayward said before Tuesday’s practice. ‘It wouldn’t have been the smart idea. I’d risk getting a technical foul, getting suspended for the season, whatever. There’s more important things than fighting someone out on the court. The more important thing was getting the win and we were able to do that.’ Hayward acknowledged Tuesday that many of his teammates might have reacted differently. But Hayward, who raised both arms and walked away, said he ‘got the last laugh’ as the Jazz prevailed 123-121 to keep their slim playoff hopes alive with four games remaining.”

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  • Slamfan4life

    west would f him up

  • bike

    Dunleavy would have karate chopped his finger off.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    What a p*ssy. Shoulda punched him. Be a man.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    One of my favorite basketball clips of all time had to be that one Bike.
    Serge with the death grip followed by MD with the dragon chop.

  • Rainman

    LOL alright tough guy…thats why ur instant reactino was to put ur arms up and act like nothing happened.

  • http://theurbangriot.com The NUPE

    I’m not sure if it was out of fear or keeping his cool that allowed him to just walk away. But whatever it was, he made the right decision. But if Delonte get’s mugged by a masked man in the next few weeks…

  • http://www.soundcloud.com/tray-5 T-Ray

    He wasn’t gonna do a thing. D West would have mopped the floor with this kid period. Big talk after the fact FOH

  • http://slamonline.com Nella

    Just cause he’s not a dumb ass like Delonte and did the smart thing doesn’t mean he couldn’t have fought him. I’m sure one dude looking like a choir boy and one dude looking like, well, Delonte West is making people biased.

  • Da-Meat-Hook

    “I wanted to fight right there”?! Really?? Hayward didn’t even show that he was displeased with DWest’s actions. He didn’t even turn around and make eye-contact with West until he was safely 15 feet away. I never thought I’d say this, but, Gordon Hayward is a STUDIO-GANGSTER!!!

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    considering Wayward is Utah’s best wing. And they are still largely in the playoff hunt. Acting on what Delonte did would have been a huge mistake. Plus, Delonte is nuts. Obviously.

  • Rainman

    Im not saying he did the wrong thing at all, he did the right thing. But dont act like u were gonna do anything, u clearly werent. <– THATS the wrong thing to do lol

  • Heals

    Rumble young man, rumble. Good stuff, Hayward’s got a real slick game, and ditto nbk’s sentiments. Riding a motorcycle with a machete on 1 side, a hand gun on the other and shot-gun in guitar case has “Don’t uck with me, EVER!” written all over it…

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-talk/2011 Diesel

    Lakeshow – Hayward’s response sounds dangerously close to what someone’s been arguing all morning.

  • http://sportsbybrooks.com/boxscores-never-lie-or-exaggerate-on-twitter-30011 Allenp

    Of course it did.
    Dude hit someone with an elbow, jostled with them down the court, and then pretended to walk away like he didn’t know what was going on AFTER he flopped.
    But he’s the smart hero.
    It’s amazing. We cheer cats for doing underhanded stuff to get an advantage, like that’s smart. Then complain about flopping. Or cheap shots.
    It’s all the same thing people.

  • Jer Dawg

    There’s plenty of time. The next time when it’s a meaningless regular early season game then they should just fight.

  • http://sportsbybrooks.com/boxscores-never-lie-or-exaggerate-on-twitter-30011 Allenp

    And it was the SECOND QUARTER!
    Why are y’all acting like the game was in the balance.
    GTFOH with that foolishness.

  • kb

    B*itchmade!

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-talk/2011 Diesel

    he soft

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-talk/2011 Diesel

    ^ not me

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-talk/2011 Diesel

    Allen – you are the new king of spin. Eboy can’t hold a candle to your spinning abilities. I don’t even understand what you’re argument is. Two guys were shoving each other and the refs caught one of the guys. Hayward walked away after the foul call like a normal person would. What do you want his reaction to be? Keep fighting in front of the ref and cost his team the game? That way he’s not being sneaky? Even though both guys were cheap shotting each other?

  • T-Money

    Lakeshow – no one is debating whether he should have punched him. but please don’t act like you had to control yourself you were running away!

  • http://sportsbybrooks.com/boxscores-never-lie-or-exaggerate-on-twitter-30011 Allenp

    The jostled, he flopped.
    Let Joakim Noah jostle Dwayne Wade and then Wade flop.
    I guarantee you would see the situation completely differently.
    Even better, let LeBron and Rose start jostling, LeBron flop, then walk away as Rose puts a finger in his face and yells at him.
    No one is going to be calling LeBron the “smart player.”
    Situational morality is a beast.
    The player who does his dirt and doesn’t get caught isn’t the smart one. He’s the sneaky one. And I understand completely why Delonte was upset after catching an elbow to the head. It’s all on the tape.

  • JML-G

    im glad Delonte did it – lets face it, Hayward looks like the type of person u just WANT to mock and push lol

  • Dagger

    Yeah that would have been a good idea. Because you want to start a fight with a crazy guy who’s been arrested for bringing enough guns on his bike/tank hybrid to take out Predator.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    It’s funny that so few people notice that rather hard elbow Hayward throws. It’s not a baby elbow.

  • Feez_22

    “It’s the quiet ones you have to worry about”. Keep that in mind guys.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Allen, are you saying Hayward flopped? Where was that? He got shoulder checked and slightly bumped back from it…. Where was the “flop”?
    The ‘elbow’ is out of frame and you can barely catch what happens at the beginning. Obviously West got hit, but he also initiated the contact.
    T-Money are you a grown man? Act like it.

  • http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-bulls-talk/2011 Diesel

    It’s funny that you notice something that happens barely on screen for a split second and no one else is 100% sure what it is, but you’ve already definitely classified it as a unprovoked hard elbow to the head. And you somehow see jostling on the other side of the court where Delonte runs away from the hoop and lowers his shoulder into Hayward’s chest. But I’m done for the day. Have a good night everyone.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Haha, Lates Diesel.

  • OTB

    Based on the video, they were jostling around, and it was Delonte that gave him a shove/elbow. Did he flop? Maybe. But if you’re going to get overly emotional enough to put a finger in someones ear like a wierdo then I’d say Hayward won this round.

    As for fighting: I don’t doubt that Delonte could have taken him down, but again, despite what all you “macho” SLAM folks from (apparently) the grittiest streets of America would have done, he’s paid to play BASKETBALL. He’s paid to win games, and considering he is one of Utah’s best players while Delonte is anything but justifies his actions. Its the same reason why Steve Nash didn’t react to Horry, or Kobe to Ron Artest getting in his face. Ditto for Lebron getting his headband flipped off by DeShawn, or Dirk to David West slapping him in the cheek.

    The best players understand thier importance and don’t react emotionally in a situation like that. West thought he could get in Hayward’s head and make him react, and it backfired. Its that simple.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I said unprovoked? Where? Are saying the elbow didn’t happen? You saying West mushed for no reason?
    Lakeshow
    He flopped. West hits him with forearm not shoulder. And he flops flailing his arms.
    I have never said delonte won. Just said neither did gordon. They were both active participants

  • OTB

    @AllenP – I saw the elbow you’re talking about. West jostled him GOING UP THE COURT (which doesn’t often happen), and was grabbing on to him. Hayward swung his arm to free himself and hit him as well. Delonte responded by shoving him. So West getting mad was justified – him hitting him with a finger to the ear is not. In fact, the “altercation” should have technically ended after West’s retaliation. West tried to push it further, and Hayward wanted no part of it. So, no, it doesn’t make him a coward, it makes him a smart player who beat West at his own game of mental intimidation.

    Also, Joakim Noah and Rose/Lebron wouldn’t put fingers in people’s ears so that example doesn’t hold weight. A comparable situation would be Kobe elbowing Artest in the head and then Artest challenging him down the court.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Nah, that’s not a flop. He could have flopped, and then I wouldn’t be defending him at all, but he didn’t flop. If flopping is admitting that someone is making illegal contact to you by no longer going the direction you were headed due to said illegal contact then I guess he flopped, but I just don’t see it that way.
    That only reference to “#winning” that I made, was that the Jazz won. Neither man “won” imo. I appreciate Gordon’s ability to turn down his aggression more-so than Delonte’s ability to mush someone is really the only thing that I see more towards GH way.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    OTB last two comments are hilarious and spot on. Good stuff dude…

  • http://fkjlf.com Jukai

    Allen, you’re WAY off on this one, man. There was no elbow, Hayward did what every player does when running down the court and tried to hold the other player back.
    Are you on Delonte’s stuff?

  • http://fkjlf.com Jukai

    Actually, just cosign OTB pretty much all the way.

  • MikeC.

    I had an amazingly crappy day at work. This video made my day. Thank you crazyassD West and goofy Gordon.

  • windowlicker_son

    Just to throw it out there, Delonte’s piercings and tats don’t negate the fact that he’s 5 inches and 30 pounds smaller than Hayward.. why is it the consensus that he would win in a fight?

  • BillM

    windowlicker_son, because West has one white parent & Hayward has two? They prolly think Seth Curry could take Hayward too. West may be legit on meds crazy, but he ain’t built like Calvin Murphy or Nate Robinson or even Monta, either.

    Hayward made the right call last night walking away, game’s too important to get thrown out over a scrub like Delonte, but he will have to stand his ground next time after speaking up like that.

    Earl Watson called out the other guys today on twitter, Corbin def should’ve had Kanter put a few into Dirk’s ribs.

  • windowlicker_son

    BillM- I agree that he made the right move, and yes he will have to stand his ground next time.

  • Leonard

    Pretty sweet yellow journalism you got going here.

  • Da-Meat-Hook

    That’s my beef with what happened. He’s talking like he had to restrain himself from retaliating, but in reality, his body language says the exact opposite. Gordon could have easily stood his ground without getting a technical foul. He could have turned, faced, and voiced his displeasure. He didn’t. He looked the other way while walking a good 10 to 15 feet in the opposite direction before he even bothered to turn and face in West’s direction. Again, there’s nothing wrong with refusing to fight a person who is crazy, but there’s no way Gordon Hayward or anyone who watched that video can say he walked away because he wanted to win the game or because he was taking the high road.If Jose Calderon stuck his finger in Hayward’s ear, he would immediately be put in the “Boston Crab” no questions asked!

  • LA Huey

    A smart, knowledgable man does not try to throwdown with Delonte West. He didn’t back down from Artest the other day and comes off as one of those cats that would bite the flesh from your neck before he loses a fight.

  • Slambo

    What a bunch of idiots. I am pretty sure this is the dumbest comments i have ever read. We really are a hate filled ignorant nation. No wonder the rest of the world hates us.

  • LA Huey

    “there’s nothing wrong with refusing to fight a person who is crazy” That golden quote capped off by a “Boston Crab” reference makes you the winner of my day, Meat Hook.

  • Youngindy21

    I thought the same thing when I saw Delonte West do that to Gordon Hayward. I said if I were Gordon Hayward I would have stole Delonte dead in the jaw for doing that immature sh!t. Because Delonte West is basically saying he doesn’t respect Gordon Hayward by doing that. I would have taken the fines and the suspensions. It’s one thing to do that to a close friend, but to do that to a complete stranger is complete disrespect.

  • bike

    Delonte is one of the most entertaining personalities in the league.

  • samoth

    West wants to be G sooo bad it hurts… he wants to be the villain. To fight him is to give him what he wants. I say give him a hug and say ‘Thank you Mr. West, God bless.’

  • Dj Taste

    Hayward should have knocked the herpes off DWest’s face.

  • IAMORANGE4EVER

    @OTB you just face palmed Allenp at 6:27 pm.

  • http://www.google.com/news BETCATS

    Why is this the most talked about story of the day? Delonte just likes to put his finger in weird places. Ask Gloria James.

  • http://fkjlf.com Jukai

    windowlicker: It also doesn’t help that Gordon is white.

  • sdfd

    There are levels to which the brain functions.

    Primal level would say punch this JUVENILE, CHILDISH, MORONIC boy in the face for the ear poking.

    Intelligent level would say hold on, what happened, you want to punch him but will that be a good thing?

    IN other words, smart people, you know, the ones you see routinely with good jobs, making decisions, the bosses, they have brains that function to the intelligent level. The rest, well, the rest are on full display here. Seriously, all the “soff” and whatever BS, you guys are the losers, the ones working crap jobs because you are unable to act intelligently.

    All this “he dissed him” BS, you’re all utter fools, completely stupid, devoid of intellect, and I mean that entirely. So stupid, SO freakin’ stupid. I hear this stupid talk all of the time in Baltimore, ghetto crap that leads to ghetto trash living ghetto trash lives full of ghetto trash people.

  • That1Guy

    I don’t blaim Hayward. I’m not trying to fight a bipolar dude either especially one who got caught with a guitar case full of guns.

  • http://www.twitter.com/_dfrance dfrance21

    windowlicker Its all assumptions. Just like the way you’re assuming that Hayward would have a chance in a fight because he’s bigger and heavier. Anyway, I’m calling BS on Hayward wanting to fight West, but somehow kept his composure because he thought about the consequences. Like Da-Meat-Hook said, and I’m surprised no one else has said, he didn’t even react in the slightest to what West did. He immediately took off with his hands raised. If he, even for one second, thought about fighting, he would have turned around, yelled at Delonte, pushed his hand away, fake charged at him, something other than walking away with his hands raised.

  • http://www.offthebackboard.wordpress.com Off The Backboard

    sdfd, while I understand where you’re coming from, I want to add that I also know intelligent people that start fights as well. The concept of retaliation and “eye for an eye” is not just the product of a “ghetto” environment/way of thinking. However, I agree with you that all this “oh he’s soft”, “he’s getting punked” BS is stupid considering that a) this is an NBA game and b) West got outwitted by Hayward with both his flop AND the technical he managed to elicit from West. With that being said, that same mentality you speak about is everywhere – not just in Baltimore. I’m more Toronto, and that line of thinking exists here even among suburban youth of ALL races (in case people misconstrue what I’m saying as being relegated to one race). Kids here live in 300k suburban homes, but dress like the project Baltimore kids from The Wire. Its a product of glorifying the “gangsters” (whether rap artist, mafioso, or “thugs”), but the problem is, when you emulate people who think with their fists first, you better hope you’re in their line of work – otherwise that mentality won’t carry you very far in life.

  • T-Money

    FFS. I can’t believe that some people still don’t get it. No one has argued that Gordon Hayward should have punched Delonte West right then and there, we’re just merely calling BS on his claim that he wanted to throw down but thought better of it. He fled the scene, no questions asked! That’s ok, I don’t have an issue with that.. just don’t talk like you were ready to pop off – you weren’t. End of.

  • AiRsMiTh

    @Off The Backboard: Man, unfortunately there are so many comments on SLAM, and I don’t even bother reading all of them, in fact I skip most because most of the time it just seems like people are bickering with one another, and what’s the point of reading those comments (they’re a waste of the page[s] actually because I assume most of them don’t go anywhere, just people drawing their lines in the sand). I think you make some great, valid points, and I agree with you entirely; well not entirely, I didn’t catch this game yesterday, so I didn’t witness the “battle” between these two “warriors” and therefore cannot attest to your presumption that West was indeed outwitted by Hayward, but I wanted to respond to your comment because I found your experience in Toronto interesting. It’s hard to believe that this seems to be the direction the youth are headed despite all of the advantages that many (of course many/most are not) are born with.

    I’ve been creeping on SLAM for the past couple hours, because I belief someone was calling me a coward in response to what I had to say about this whole incident (Allenp, I hope you read my response, perhaps we both jumped the gun), and I find the popularity (unpopularity) of these two threads interesting, and perhaps even disturbing.

    I’m sure the thought has crossed most of our minds, however there are so many comments, so I’m unsure if anyone has even broached the topic of racism. Actually at least one person made a reference to skin color. Do you think the number of people commenting on this thread, and the original video thread, and even the Dunleavy chopping thread… are indicative of racist and culture-clashing undertones? As I said, I’m sure most people have thought about this elephant in the room, not that it is the subject of these arguments necessarily, but it seems at least some of the animosity expressed has some racial/cultural undertones (I realize this is not a much of a sentence). We live in a crazy world, and I wish people weren’t so uncompromising and bitter with one another.

  • blakos

    OTB wins. Sorry Allen

  • gubbins

    If a man lays down a reprisal as barbaric as a ‘wet willie’, who knows what diabolical acts he is capable of. I’m amazed the entire Jazz team, bench & lower tier didn’t flee in terror.

  • smoove

    riiiiight….back to work

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    What bothers me is the idea that West started a fight unprovoked and behaved irrationally. And that makes him stupid and Hayward smart.
    What I saw was a cat get hit in the head with an elbow and like 90 percent of NBA players become incredibly irate. It happens all the time.
    West’s reaction to being irate was to mush Hayward in the face, which wouldn’t have become big news if people didn’t think it was a “wet willie.” Which is clearly and obviously wasn’t.
    If you get hit in the face or head with an elbow you’re going to take that personally, particularly if you believe the other player through the elbow on purpose. If you watch the video from the beginning you will see Delonte try to jump in Hayward’s path so he doesn’t get a run out on the break, and in an attempt to break free, Hayward swings across with his elbow.
    I don’t know if he was trying to use the elbow, or just following basketball protocol. All I know is that it appears to strike West and that pisses him off, which leads to the escalation of the altercation because like many, many players, Delonte became incensed at an elbow. I don’t care about who would win the fight, I have not commented on who would win the fight.
    I have commented on both threads about the idea that this was an unprovoked attack that Hayward handled “the right way.” I dispute that characterization. And based on what I’ve seen, most of y’all completely missed what set Delonte off and just chalked up the whole altercation to his mental illness.
    Wonderful.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Also, while crazy jokes can be entertaining, it’s not that funny when you’ve seen a family member have a mental break and end up in dire straits because of it. We all clown around, myself included, but at the end of the day I feel sorry for Delonte because I’ve seen firsthand what mental illness can do to people in my family.

  • bike

    There are definitely racial undertones in the comments. Interestingly enough, while ppl weren’t really advocating violence as much as they were doubting Hayward’s own statement, many of the comments turned into “smart white guy” won over the “dumb black”. That’s the only racial aspect to these comments. OTB dint “win” a damned thing with his rants that had little to do with the actual facts of this matter. Wiggers in Toronto have nothing to do with the fact that Hayward wasn’t going to do a damn thing to West, contrary to what he said. The tape says it all. This fake superiorty the he, that idiot Lakeshow aka I Think I’m Cool Because I Let Kids Take My Toys In the Sandbox Instead of Fighting As a Kid, Jukai aka Mr. I’m the Smart white Guy Who Knows Better Than You All, hasn’t done anything but expose them for what they are. It’s usually always the same people coming to the defense of anything having to do with what they make out to be a white victim.

  • giptheclip

    lots of racial bias here. sad really. the act of stupidity was made by delonte west. smh at dudes trying to justify it or even say they could see why west would have done that. Why? … because haywards a white guy that can ball? grow up lames.

  • bike

    Stop trying to find a lilly white victim. Hayward got mushed. It was funny. Get over it. Hayward is a decent player; don’t try to make it seem like we’re hating on him because he’s some white superstar.

  • http://www.offthebackboard.wordpress.com Off The Backboard

    @Bike – If you’d actually read what I wrote and who I directed what I wrote to, you’d realize that the “Wiggers in Toronto” (not what I said actually) was directed at a comment that sdsf made. My earlier responses were my actual replies to this thread. I don’t attempt to show any superiority over anyone – I’m sorry you feel that way when I haven’t addressed you or anyone within this thread in a condescending manner. I’m stating my opinion; you’re essentially getting mad that people are agreeing with me, which doesn’t make any sense. As for supporting the “white victim”…I’m not white. I’m brown (South Asian), so I don’t really care if he’s white, black, or Asian.

  • bike

    I’m not getting mad, I’m stating the attitudes of those people. The same attitudes that have been displayed by them for as long as they’ve been commenting on this site, which is a long time. And again, the whole “smart white guy” vs “dumb black guy” attitude is very prevalent in this debate. I don’t often agree with Allenp, but he is correct on this issue. I’m just being more blunt about things than he is.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7l1a5iYEyA Off The Backboard

    I don’t agree that its just a “smart white guy” vs “dumb black guy” debate, at least for me. Black players have walked away from black players before without retaliating. Kobe often does it after he baits the opponent into charging at him (Artest, Pryzbilla, etc). A perfect example of what I mean is linked on my name. Its an altercation between BJ Armstrong and KJ…KJ hits BJ in the head, the referees don’t catch it, and BJ retaliates, which results in a flagrant foul + the ball for the Suns. Again, I’d say KJ got the best of it because he was able to bait BJ into a flagrant foul. Do you think KJ wanted to throw down BJ for shoving him like that? Of course. But he, like many other players, keep thier calm and don’t retaliate because of thier importance to the team. Another example is the Anthony Peeler elbow to KG from the 2004 playoffs, or any time Blake gets roughed up. Its easier to retaliate than it is to keep your cool in a situation like that.

  • bike

    I’m talking about this situation and the comments in both threads on this situation, by the individuals commenting here on this site about it.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Man, I don’t even want to get in involved in a race debate.
    He got elbowed. I just don’t understand why it’s so hard to understand getting pissed off that you got elbowed to the face/head, particularly if you think the other guy did it on purpose, which it’s obvious Delonte did think.
    Oh well, chalk up as different perspectives on the world. I don’t think it’s “smart” to elbow somebody and then pretend like you don’t know what happened. You know damn well what happened. Lol.

  • AiRsMiTh

    I realize my comment may be excessively and unecessarily long, but before you dismiss it, I hope that you may for at least a moment consider reading all the way through. I’m not asking you to read a novel. I know this thread is probably dead now since it is a new day, but perhaps my point will make sense to you, and if it does not, I apologize for the inconvenience. @Allenp: Glad you saw my response. No hard feelings. I too have experience with mental illness, and it’s unfortunate how all commenters (myself included) can jump on one another and miss each other’s points completely by jumping to their own conclusions. I never intentionally insulted Mr. West (not that you are accussing me of course) because I understand what mental illness can do to someone. I called Delonte “crazy”, but I didn’t actually mean it as an insult or that he was a lunatic. Maybe the use of the word crazy was loose and careless. And whoa @ bike! I hope you don’t think either of my two comments had anything to do with Hayward being a “smart white guy” and Delonte being a “dumb black”. It’s a tragedy that even today, 50 years after the Civil Rights Movement, that racism still has such a negative effect. Though I realize I’m not saying anything that any minority in any part of the world has not already experienced throughout their own lives. I did NOT mean that ANY people on here commenting are racists. I wish I were better at explaining my points clearly, however, the racist/cultural undertones were more applying to racial tension as opposed to the actual belief and practice of racism being expressed by anyone in particular (commenters, Hayward, and West). I think we are all projecting onto one another, and that’s no good because I believe many of us are misunderstanding each other, and are assuming that the people with whom we argue are concerned only about who is right or wrong; who is winner and loser of said argument. I originally stated that I believed Gordon did the right thing by walking away and not further escalating the situation, however, I never once stated Delonte was wrong. I don’t believe either player is wrong. Delonte said, “You get caught up in the emotions and it’s physical. You get caught in the moment sometimes” and I believe him and completely agree. It happens in all sports. No one is wrong for it, it’s just a part of games and sports in general. There is no victim, and/or guilty party in this whole fiasco. All of my (long ass) comments have the same message. How sad and disturbing it is that people pass judgements without truly knowing anything. How someone can make a judgement, that is jump to a conclusion just because it seems likely to them, and doubt that it could NOT EVER be anything else. How you can say, “that Hayward wasn’t going to do a damn thing to West, contrary to what he said. The tape says it all”? The tape (I believe) does not say anything at all. All it shows is someone forcibly pressing their finger into someone else’s ear/head. Hayward put up his arms immediately, which to me suggests he was not going to further worsen the situation. Of course a coward could do what Gordon did, but what makes it cowardly? How do you know what Gordon was thinking at that very moment. Can you see into his mind when he sticks his hands up? How do you know he didn’t feel disrespected and angry at that moment? You don’t. Just as I don’t know without definitive proof that Gordon IS NOT a coward. It’s possible he could have been acting cowardly, but if he says he wanted to fight (suggesting he was upset by what happened) then why should I not believe him. I will take someone’s word until I have reason to otherwise not. That is I will reserve my judgement, as we all should until the future, and when I say future I do not mean the next UTA or DAL in which they both participate; I might wait a season before I actually pass a judgement. There are no sides, no innocence by either West or Hayward, but no guilt either. It was an incident, emotions simply got in the way.

  • bike

    If a person’s first response, the emotional response that’s usually not thought out, is to put their hands up in the manner that Hayward did then it’s pretty safe to say he wasn’t going to do a damn thing. Did I say he was a coward for that? No, I didn’t. Don’t put words in my mouth. Haywards first reaction wasn’t a defensive reaction. You don’t need a crystal ball to see that. No need to interpret his actions as anything other than what they were. What people say and do aren’t always the same thing. Most people tend to figure thaat out by age 9. And I’m not projecting anything onto anyone. The comments on this subject are in the same tone as they are from the same people on pretty much any subject that involves two people of a different race. That’s just how it is on this site.

  • http://sfjklf.com Jukai

    Bike- My race has nothing to do with this. I’m just The Smart Guy Who Knows Better Than You All.
    Besides, you post more racist asian and black jokes than any reguarly here, cut that ish out.

  • AiRsMiTh

    @bike Did I put words into your mouth? I addressed you in particular, but my last post wasn’t directed at you solely. My comment is directed at you, in addition to the ALL people of SLAM who have commented, and/or read. Sorry to confuse you. I merely addressed you in particular because you responded to my comment and agreed that there is indeed racial undertones prevalent throughout all of this, but as I went on to the bulk of my writing, I should have made a distinction that it my comment was a comment that was intended for anyone who read it (most likely OTB, Allenp, and whoever else has continued our/their dialogue from yesterday). But I’d like to get this straight because I am not sure I understand your comment entirely, and to be honest I haven’t read all of the comments that you have made, perhaps I should do that before finishing this comment, but I feel I can wait till after. So let’s suppose Haywards initial reaction was one of fear (I know you just said you didn’t claim he was a coward), are you saying that because he probably wasn’t going to do a damn thing in that moment where he raised his arms, that that means that he can not ever want to fight Delonte, or fight anyone for that matter. And let me clarify one thing because it has just occurred to me as I type that this could possibly resolve some misunderstanding you have with me, because I sense some hostility in your words with your sarcasm and I don’t know why you would have any hostile feelings towards me. When I SUBMITTED my long ass comment at 12:37, it was not a comment that I composed quickly. I put lots of thought into. So although I posted my comment at 12:37, I think I must have been typing it as you continued your dialogue with others. I addressed you in response to your response (please excuse redundancies in ALL of my comments) at 10:21 (today). So while I was taking my time to compose my response, as I am with this post as well, I must have not read whatever it was that you or anyone else was saying prior to the publishing of my comment at 12:37. If all of this comment has been a waste as well, and you feel no different (with your sarcasm I mean) about your comment published @ 1:13, well then I think you have missed THE point that I have been trying to make over the past two days, and that represents a failure on my part as well as yours’, but mostly mine because apparently I would have not made my point clear enough… even though I feel like a dumb-ass for repeating myself so many times. I don’t think it’s necessary for me to continue to say what I was originally going to say, because I think you misunderstood me, and I hope what I have spent the last 5-10 minutes typing will resolve this misunderstanding. When you read this comment, please take into account that it just became 10:45 (Pac time), and so any comments between 1:13 of today, and 1:46 have not yet been read since I have spent that time going to the bathroom/waking up, and composing this comment.

  • AiRsMiTh

    *My comment is directed at you, in addition to the ALL people of SLAM who have commented, and/or read **this story. Sorry for the typo.

  • AiRsMiTh

    Sorry for the typos, I just noticed one more, but there may be more. I have a (bad) habit of proofreading while I continue composing… which I guess means I technically have a habit of not proofreading at all. Bear with me and my comments, please.

  • Da-Meat-Hook

    GORDON HAYWARD WASN’T GONNA DO A DAMN THING! IF HE WAS GONNA DO A DAMN THING, THEN HE WOULD HAVE DONE A DAMN THING. HE DIDN’T DO A DAMN THING, BUT LATER STATED THAT HE WAS READY TO DO A DAMN THING! THE CAMERA DOESN’T LIE ABOUT A DAMN THING. REWATCH THE DAMN VIDEO!!!

    In all seriousness, his initial reaction was one of ‘flight’. Arms raised, walking away, avoiding eye-contact, and not saying a word until he was about 15 feet away. No one’s saying it was right or wrong. No one’s saying we would have handled it any differently. The only thing myself and others (bike, dfance21,t-money) are disbuting is that Gordon Hayward’S body language and actions indicate that he did not want an altercation with D. West, but later stated that he “wanted to fight right there” from the safety of his locker room. THAT’S WHERE WE’RE CALLING BS!!! How this is even debatable is beyond me . . .

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Uhhh, isn’t Delonte just as much white as he is black? WTH does race have to do with this? I’m so confused. Delonte is half white. White people are stupid and make mistakes like other races too last time I checked. No one is different than anyone, other than how they were brought up and what culture they live in. Skin color is just that…
    OTB laid it out perfectly in his post about KJ vs BJ Armstrong. This is about a game called basketball, not a race debate. KJ was ‘smart’. Like
    Hayward was. Whether or not you want to use the word smart, because you for some reason think it is indicative of race, is up to you. I guess crafty might be a better word? I can’t think of what word is less “offensive.”

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vUoeDUajx0 Al Sharpton

    Thank goodness. I needed another white hero to persecute.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Ooh, and bike, in some post you called me soft. You called me soft for walking away from 20 guys with bats and brass knuckles that were looking to kill someone… If it’s soft to value your life over looking tuff. Then yes. Soft as butter mother f*cker.
    LMAO at still thinking the gangster life is cool. I thought that when I was 14 and listened to Pac and Biggie. I grew up.

  • AiRsMiTh

    I’m not sure if some people are responding to me or responding to others. I have caused more confusion, and for that I apologize from the bottom of my heart. I am not trying to argue with anyone or anything. IF someone is responding to me, know that I only keep coming back to these threads because I want to CLARIFY MISUNDERSTANDINGS. IF someone is indeed responding to me since I have last commented, I think you misinterpret PARTS of my argument, and you miss the point. I use (or at least have tried, and have failed) examples or REASONING/LOGIC (I am not stating that I am a more reasonable or more logical than any person on here, and will admit that I am just as prone as you are to have holes or mistakes in my logic). Truth, and no, I am not… let me repeat, am not trying to say that what I have argued (according to the dictionary on my dashboard/macbook; argue: give reasons or cite evidence in support of an idea, action, or theory, typically with the aim of persuading others to share one’s view) anything that I have said is truth and anything that you have is not truth or vice versa. I think you are getting tripped up on my examples, and miss the point I try to make entirely. The point I have tried to make does not apply only to this West/Hayward incident, but to a bigger, and more fundamental picture. If you find what I say odd, or my reasons odd, or maybe my motives (sneaky?) for arguing, then perhaps I have failed (as I have stated before is very likely indeed) to give my point CLARITY, but please do not take offense, and mistake that I am arguing for someone, or “side” in this whole mess to be right, and another wrong. It is more an argument, or perhaps I should say questioning, of how rather than what. All of my typing clearly has caused confusion. I only elaborate to try and make things more clear, or clearer. Conversely, it has done the opposite of what I have intended. I am white, but I am an Asian American as well. Just because I am white, doesn’t mean I cannot and have not experienced offense from white people (or people of ANY color, yes even other Asians) for being Asian; maybe they didn’t have a problem with me being Asian in particular, but I have definitely taken offense with some of the words that people have carelessly and mindlessly allowed to roll off their tongues. And please do not think I am trying to empathize being Asian AMERICAN with being Black. . I AM NOT. I have NEVER been a victim of true racism. We don’t need a history lesson, or anything of that sort to compare which is worse. Clearly with our ugly past, it is obvious that the black man IN America has endured UNPARALLELED cruelties, and injustices; they have endured the very worst of mankind. I regret broaching the subject of race/culture in this forum. That was not wise to do because it is a topic more broad than I can ever imagine. I hope that people do not see me as a bigot if I comment on SLAM or anywhere in the world at all, because I believe injustice against any man, is an injustice to all men (and women, and children, transgendered, or whoever you claim you want to be). Though we all come from different backgrounds, cultures, and what have you, we are all the same at the very core. I do NOT see ANY ONE race as better than ANY other. Again, if anyone has been offended (or even only were confused) by anything I have said. I am truly, truly sorry. I made a mistake, and feel I have contributed to the misunderstanding and dissension on this forum, and community. In fact, I do not ask you for forgiveness, but I do want you to know that I am sorry for ANY offense, no matter how small. I really originally had only expected to watch Delonte give someone a wet willie

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    AirSmith if you thought I was responding to you, I wasn’t.

  • AiRsMiTh

    Lol, thank you LakeShow, even if you are a Laker’s fan. My final comment really is for ANYONE who has read/reads my comment(s) and may have been offended and/or confused by. It is not exclusive to only those who feel compelled or want to respond to my comment(s), but I am glad we can clarify that neither you, nor I have any feelings of animosity between one another, since I notice you often comment here on SLAM.

  • bike

    @Jukai: I’ve been using this handle for a while and someone else posting under my name has been happening just as long. Rest assured those aren’t me. Anytime there is a topic involving a non-white minority you come on here with your know-it-all bs and try to prove how that minority was wrong. And you know it. @Lakeshow: My comment here was the only time I personally responded to your lack experience with physical confrontation. I said something here because your overall sarcastic attitude on the subject of fighting, despite the oh-so dramatic insurmountable opponents you used an example, was condescending. You were speaking like anyone who had ever been in a fight was uncivilized. Your little prissy mocking comments came of that way. The reality is, physical confrontations happen and you don’t need to be from the hood to experience them. You the your little b#tch slapping comments were making fun of people. In reality you just hinted at being the kid who was too afraid to stand up for himself. Apparently you’re that as a grown man too when you don’t have a keyboard in front of you.

  • bike

    Btw, Delonte is whatever he identifies himself as. He identifies as black and that’s how I’ll identify him. It’s not like society views him as anything else anyway.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    I didn’t even follow half that post. It just sounded like a bunch of ignorant digs on who I am, and what culture I come from.
    The “lack of physical confrontation in my life” is of direct correlation to who I am. One creates the amount of physical confrontation that is in their life. When put in a place where I have no option but to fight. So be it. I shall. Any time their is a chance of not fighting, you better bet I am on that boat. I had over $900 in dentist bills because of that guy. I wouldn’t do that to someone.
    And dude… i’m 6’4″ and 210… I have taken boxing classes and MMA classes. The only people i’m “afraid” to fight, are professional fighters.
    You seemed to have taken things that I said personally. Which is very, very, strange. “B#tch slapping comments were making fun of people.” What? Who did that make fun of?
    When did Delonte say he identifies with black people more than white people? I identify with other humans personally. I’d imagine he does also.
    Have a good night fellow carbon based life form.

  • http://www.google.com/news BETCATS

    How is this turning into a race debate? Seriously? The only issue of race I saw in any of this was the announcers going way out of line in when they called West’s actions basically the same as eating a baby or something. Very overblown but I attribute it just as much to homer-ism. People get mushed all the time. It is weird that this case involved ear penetration. I think a lot of the race comments have more to do with the people making them than what actually happened on the basketball court. The labels people are slapping on West and Hayward are ridiculous. West has a lot of issues that have nothing to do with his race. Hayward is a grown man and his race does not determine how well he can/can’t fight or his intelligence. I’m pretty sure anyone who got a finger to the ear would be pretty mad when asked about it. I also think anyone who got an elbow to the face under any circumstances would try to respond if they Stop the ignorance.

  • http://www.google.com/news BETCATS

    *try to respond if they thought they could get away with it or make a point.

  • http://www.google.com/news BETCATS

    *try to respond if they could get away with it or make a point.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Slow clap for BETCATS.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    There are two bikes? How long has this been going on for?!?!!?!

  • http://slamonline.com Jones

    At the end of the night, Hayward comes out with a W, West comes out $2000 poorer.

    And what has this whole thing got to do with race or fighting? Smh. Just a young guy mouthing off after another guy embarrassed him.

  • jamal

    This dude is way too white to get into a fight like that. But that’s good because I hate it when they fight anyway.

  • http://www.vincebullinger.com Vince Bullinger

    Every single person in the NHL can beat up Delonte West easily.

  • http://www.vincebullinger.com Vince Bullinger

    I identify as a dolphin.

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