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Thursday, April 5th, 2012 at 2:00 pm  |  151 responses

Mike Brown: Kobe Bryant Getting Overlooked in MVP Race


Lakers head coach Mike Brown continues to stump for his favorite MVP candidate in all of the land. Brown claims that fans and media discounted Kobe’s chances at winning the award before the season even began. Per the OC Register: “Mike Brown obviously believes Kobe Bryant should be among the MVP candidates, but not just because he coaches him. He has a laundry list of reasons why the Lakers star should be considered, along with Oklahoma City’s Kevin Durant, Miami’s LeBron James and San Antonio guard Tony Parker, for the regular-season honor. For instance, the coach pointed out, take Bryant’s age and the fact he is leading the league in scoring and minutes … ‘Obviously I’m biased like most coaches would be about their guys,’ Brown said. ‘But I still believe that Kobe should be one of the top guys, the top three mentioned. His name should be bantered around.’ Brown said Bryant, the 2008 MVP, has had to deal with more adversity this season than Durant or James. […] ‘A lot of people, before the season I felt, had written off a guy like Kobe,’ Brown said. ‘So for Kobe to be playing at the level he is playing now and for the team to have the sort of success we’ve had so far, when you compared it to the other teams and where they sit and their continuity … I believe Kobe’s name should be mentioned right there (with the others.)’”

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  • http://www.facebook.com/joe.l.brewer3 BlackPhantom

    Look…does Kobe deserve to be an MVP candidate? Of course. Does he deserve to win it? Of course not.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Shut up Mike Brown.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Then why is Kobe on everyone’s Top-3 MVP candidates list?

  • http://slamonline.com Brad Long

    Maybe if you didn’t coach like a FU(KTARD he’d be getting the respect he deserves because your team would be fighting for the No. 1 seed.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    CoSign BP.
    Kobe is playing great don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. You got plenty of dudes in the L putting up just over 40% FG’s, but imo you have to be more efficient to win MVP.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Is Mike Brown drunk? Who doesn’t have Kobe in their top 5? And who would honestly complain about people putting Tony Parker or Chris Paul over him this season? You could make a great argument that any of those 3 deserve to be 3rd in the race. Nobody is over looking Bean, what he’s doing this year is simply remarkable and great. Enjoy it for what it is. Don’t overhype it and take away from how it should be perceived.

  • LP

    Mike Brown is getting OVERlooked as a coach by his own players… stop campaigning for KOBE and try to make it out the 1st round.

  • http://www.facebook.com/joe.l.brewer3 BlackPhantom

    *sigh* That’s Mike Brown in a nutshell for ya…

  • lakernation

    Y yall being so hard on Mike Brown? He’s only in his first year as a Lakers head coach with a player that is argubly the best player to play the game, its hard to coach those type of players. He’s only being real Kobe should be the front runner for MVP, without him the Lakers dont have a chance. I honestly would put Dwight Howard ahead of lebron and durant too. MY OPINION….Sorry if you offended….SIKE! Far as im concerned the L owes kobe another MVP for snubbing him in 06 and giving it to (my precious) Steve Nash.

  • http://www.facebook.com/joe.l.brewer3 BlackPhantom

    Because Mike Brown is a terrible coach….

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Did, MJ, Kareem, Wilt, Magic, Bird, not exists? Were those guys just figments of my imagination??…. hmmm..

  • bike

    What does Brown mean by ‘had to deal with more adversity this season than Durant or James.’ mean? A crappy coach?

  • Ash

    From what I have heard ppl have mention Kobe Lebron Kevin Tony even Westbrook. Maye he’s referring to tESPN

  • http://www.facebook.com/joe.l.brewer3 BlackPhantom

    @bike lol I guess so.

  • Cheema

    last time brown aired kobe as mvp, he went on a shot chuck rampage losing to pistons, wizards back to back. now they finally feeding it to bynum and winning, and this mike brown has audacity to do the same thing? I guess he must really like losing then!

  • urdumb

    Kobe played more than half the season with the worst point guard in the NBA Derek Fisher, THe first 5 games Bynum was suspended. The lakers cant hold a lead to save their life which forces kobe to play way more minutes then the otehr MVP canidates which makes them shoot a better percentage since the re always fresh. Kobe does not play with another FInals MVP like Lebron and a another all star he also isnt sourrounded my sharpshooters. With out Kobe the Lakers dont make the playoffs with im they are championship conenders without Durant or Lebron OKC and Miami still make the playoffs

  • lakernation

    @ LakeShow are you asking me these questions? If so, if you read my comment correctly I said argubly meaning you can put him in the same category as MJ, Kareem, Wilt, Magic, Bird etc… Kobe is breaking records bruh, I believe he has about 2 more good years left in him. This is’nt his last rodeo homey. If the Lakers win another title under his reign… MJ might have to move over and make room.

  • lakernation

    @ Cheema, I feel what you saying but at the same time its the NBA bruh, its a lot of games to be played to worry about two losses to teams that wont make the playoffs. Champions brush that type sh** off.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    NO

  • bike

    ^^ Uh,no.

  • bike

    @lakernation

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Co-Sign the people who plainly replied with a “NO.”

  • lakernation

    ^^ no? give me an explanation why you said no?

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Kobe hasn’t been as efficient throughout his career mainly. He also shows a lack of elite team leadership. His defense, while good, was not as good as MJ’s. He deserves to be mentioned with the all time greats, but not as being better than them. Only thing that could change this would be an amazing, legendary, post season run, unlike anything we have seen from Bean in the post season before. Even then he’d probably have to get a 7th ring as one of the best, most important players to the team to match MJ’s two three-peats. It’s just not a convo right now.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    “If the Lakers win another title under his reign… MJ might have to move over and make room.” – No
    -
    And I shouldn’t have to explain why that is absurd. I have done it numerous times in here. The two aren’t close.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Thank you Lakeshow.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85Bl3GRdULQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player 1982

    BlackPhantom’s first comment pretty much sums it uP.

  • http://jsklff.com Jukai

    “Kobe Bryant is leading a Mike Brown-led team to a first-round homecourt advantage,” Mike Brown did not necessarily add, “that is a massive achievement and cannot be overlooked in terms of MVP voting.”

  • http://jsklff.com Jukai

    Bike beat me to the obviously joke.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Dagger

    @lakernation: wow. Start with this article: http://kobe-bryant-michael-jordan.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=78&Itemid=96. Then compare statistical output, career accomplishments: anything and everything beyond titles. Kobe is nowhere close to Jordan. As for Kobe this year: it’s hard to think of awarding an MVP award to a guy who hurts his team many nights be forgetting his teammates.

  • http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/shotchart?gameId=320404014 Allenp

    Mike Brown better be careful not to choke on that thing.

  • http://juan.garcia@computershare.com That’sGangsta

    The Mamba doesn’t need voter recognition from the “experts” when the court of public opinion already has given him the GOAT status.

  • http://juan.garcia@computershare.com That’sGangsta

    I know some are going to say Michael but players today are better then yester years. Sorry gramps. That’s just the way it is. Natural progression. Kobe has been wheeling and dealing the best defenders this league has seen as a whole for 16 yrs and counting. He comes at you with
    the MJ fade away, J West pull up J, Magic/Oscar spin move to the basket, dream shake lite and just added the Dirk fade with the leg up rainbow swoosh… just to name a few of his robberies from the greats. Name a cat who’s done that?

  • rand33p

    kobe is the second best ever… period.. now go back to ur cubicles

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    rand33p, No he isn’t. I have my own office. In your face.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    I would hate working in a cubicle.

  • lakernation

    @ Lakeshow, good points but this what you have to factor in as well, is the level of competition kobe is playing with vs. the level of competition those greats you’ve named especially Jordan, played with. Jordan had no Lebron nor Dwade playing together and barely had a shaq during his career of being the best in his era. With the level of talent that we have in the NBA these days its hard for a player to be efficient unless youre a pure beast like lebron (the fastest and highest jumping forward/pt gaurd ive ever seen). Kobe has been to 7 nba championships in his career and he was one of the main reasons(unlike a robert horry) dude scored 81 pts in a game! 63 pts against Dallas and sat out the whole 4th quarter. THATS GREATNESS in our era bruh.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    oh lord. Jordan played in the golden era. What Kobe has done in today’s NBA with today’s rules is not comparable to what Jordan did. It’s not even relatively close.

  • lakernation

    @That’sGangsta im a do like lakeshow does and COSIGN!

  • http://juan.garcia@computershare.com That’sGangsta

    Jordan never one a chip in the Golden era. that belonged to Magic, Larry and Dr J. and the Bad Boys. Jordan won when there were no Super Teams left. Jordan got past a Pistons team, like todays lakers, who had been to three straight finals and were out of gas. The Lakers he beat were not the showtime Lakers of the 80′s.

  • http://juan.garcia@computershare.com That’sGangsta

    Kobes teams had to get by a four time champ in the Spurs and probably one of the best defensive teams of all time in the Celtics.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    You Kobe Bryant enthusiasts really screw up his legacy. He can’t just be what he is? A top 10 all-time player? He has to be in the conversation with Jordan because he was on a comparable number of championship teams and modeled his game after him? He gets a pass on being one of the worst teammates among the all-time greats ever, if not the worst, he never ever even kind of held a candle to Jordan defensively, his most efficient season is less efficient than Jordan’s worst season (pre-washington), even Kobe’s uber scoring season in 06 would not have been in Jordan’s top 7, considering all the other things he did on the court (while shooting 50% from the field, compared to Kobe’s 45%). Jordan was the BEST player on 6 championship teams, he is the reason some of the best players of all-time don’t have a ring or had to wait for one, or get it as a journeyman, (Barkley, Ewing, Malone, Stockton, Payton, Miller, etc.) Kobe has been the best player on 2. Then you look at Jordan v Kobe in the playoffs, and it is even more lopsided. Jordan can’t be caught by Kobe unless Kobe produces like he never has, which logic would tell you, is never going to happen.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    It has taken Kobe 21,969 shots to make 9,978. In 21,686 shots (pre-washington) Jordan made 10,962, That is ONE THOUSAND more makes in LESS attempts. HAHAHAHA, and they are “close” – in what world?

  • Omar

    Because there are 3 guys who are clearly ahead of him, you can argue him for 4th but no higher than that.

  • http://theurbangriot.com The NUPE

    Mike Brown is doing what he’s suppose to do and that’s beef up his guy. Although, I think it’s clear that as it’s only a two person race between LeBron and KD for MVP, can’t blame MB for trying. I don’t get how he says that not a lot of ‘experts’ put Kobe in the running, when actually he’s in most expert top 5 list. But I do get that a lot of people wrote Kobe off as a potential MVP before the season started. Truth is, Kobe is past his prime and no longer in the conversation of best in the league. He’s still among the best, but no longer in the running as the best.

  • Niyagirlfresh

    The MVP is pre-determined before the season even starts. Kobe is leading the league in scoring amongst a bunch of 20 year olds carrying a team in the rebuilding process. But the NBA analyst already had LeBron and Kevin Durant before it even started. Kobe’s getting older he’s not as exciting to people anymore. No one cares about fundamentals and skill for longevity ask Tim Duncan. We care about stats, dunks and excitement. LeBron vs. Kevin Durant is GREAT MARKETING it doesn’t matter if the Heat have two other superstars or Russell can pop 50 on the board if he wants to doesn’t matter. The young player of this year vs. The young player of yesterday sounds better than anything out right now.

    Take Blake for example L.A. was clearly the better team and the Clippers lost but people didn’t focus on the loss all they could talk about is Blakes dunks. That’s all people care these days. The MVP award requirements change every other season, and seems like when they do Kobe’s never in the running, coincidence? NOPE.

  • Mcruzzzz

    NBK, if you talking about number or FG Made, well you are saying that Kareem is better than MJ. Dumb head

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Kobe is shooting the worst % (43%) since he was a teenager. Scoring 28PPG on 23 shots is not very good. Plus they still have 3 of the top 20 players in the league. It’s not like they are actually rebuilding, they are just replacing complementary pieces. Kobe stans drive me nuts.

  • http://www.facebook.com/joe.l.brewer3 BlackPhantom

    This whole thread is making Kobe fans look stupid. How many times do I have to say Jordan is waaaay better than Kobe. Just let Kobe be Kobe. I know, Kobe is a freaking assassin on the floor but I’m not going to let that blind me from things that are vital to determining basketball success like say…efficiency. Maybe if Kobe wasn’t so freakin’ selfish he would be a little closer to Jordan…but he isn’t.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    lol cruzz probably just don’t comment.
    .
    The only reasonable comparison between Jordan and Kobe other than the style of basketball they play is as a scorer. Which I just showed Kobe still doesn’t really hold a candle to Jordan in. Lower career scoring average, much lower FG%, much worse efficiency, worse best scoring season, etc etc.
    .
    Kobe does have more weapons offensively then Jordan. But he doesn’t use the tools he has at nearly the same level that Jordan used the skills he had.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    At least our resident Lakers fans, Phantom and Lakeshow are realistic. Thank you two. I am glad y’all have a good perspective on where Kobe ranks all-time, it honestly makes what he’s doing in his 16th season more special when you are realistic about his all-time place, it keeps people like me from looking like a hater for saying what i say, and keeps the general discussions about Kobe positive. Rather than what this is snowballing into.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Haha, word to nbk, and my boy BlackPhanties! Sorry, still love that as ‘the worse slam name distorted to be an insult’ ;) Oohh, IAMGREENFOREVER is a goody too.
    -Seriously stans, just appreciate who and what Kobe is. That is Kobe. I know he looks and plays like MJ. I personally think he holds a candle just a wee bit to Jordan, but he isn’t in the argument for being as good or better than Jordan. He gets the lowly title of “2nd best 2 guard of all time.” (Jerry West and JTaylor be dammed!)

  • http://www.facebook.com/joe.l.brewer3 BlackPhantom

    I still remember that. Wasn’t during one of the Finals Live Blogs last year?

  • http://slamonline.com 1982

    That’sGangsta has never heard of a player named Shaquille O’Neal. Because apparently Kobe won all those championships and beat the Spurs on his own. And Pau Gasol won them the Celtic’s series, not Kobe.

  • 13

    Mike Brown should stop campaigning for Kobe to win MVP and instead help him win FINALS MVP

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    LMAO… I think so. So ridiculous.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Lake, do a backflip into a fire. The Logo and JTay know who the real 2nd best SG of all-time is and he isn’t named after a mexican dish.

  • http://larrybrownsports.com/basketball/lebron-james-played-superb-defense-on-derrick-rose/70485 nbk

    Kobe is named after his dads favorite steak.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    I can’t back flip. I’m a pyro. Your request means nothing to me… BUWAHAHAHAHA!
    -It’s a Japanese beef dish. Get cultured bro. lol

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Japanese like bean? who knew.

  • Realtalk

    Most of the commenters on this blog are Kobe haters. The only person who is better than Kobe is Mj. Maybe Magic too. The next few names on people’s top five are centers. Can’t really compare centers and shooting guards IMO. What backcourt player other than the two I listed impacts a game or is better than Kobe? He should be in everybody’s top five to seven at least

  • RedRum

    Brown is just kissing Kobe’s arse just in case he can save his job and Kobe does not finish him like he finished Rudy and Dwight is finishing SVG. No player who shoots with such volume for barely above 42% should be considered MVP. yes, it is great he leads the league in ppg and mpg but at this moment kobe plays more like AI…

  • sid

    @redrum kobe plays like Allen Iverson had to play in philly because he never had the luxury of playing with two 7-footers who would be averaging 25-and-10 if they were the primary options on the lakers. In denver, AI averaged 26.5 ppg on 19 fga. kobe has no excuse for his suspect shot selection this season. he is a top 5 mvp candidate since he is leading the league in scoring but he is not the mvp.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    MJ compared Kobe to him. BOOK IT!!

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    If you look at Kobe’s career, its not like any other legend ever. Kobe this year is playing with no bench, was the worst starting point guard-cost lakers games, Bynum suspended, Kobe injury issues/concussion, leads league in minutes/points, yes his fg% is bad, but he has to put up alot of bail out shots. Also some dummies up here questioning Kobe’s leadership go watch Kobe Doin Work and realize the dude has went to 7 NBA Finals and everyone who has played with him, talks about his leadership. Kobe is MVP, if you look at they are 3rd in West, with all the problems of this year. BOOK IT!!

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    @redrum
    @sid,
    don’t ever compare Kobe to AI, Its funny cats, yall act like MJ didn’t take dumb shots and teammates left because he did not pass. No one kills MJ for his stubborn ball hog crap. MJ gets a pass. Kobe shoots alot of bail out shots at end of the shot clock, because Lakers don’t have a slasher to help with Kobe. Go research, I have it talks about players having to take shots at end of shot clock. This affects Kobe field goal percentage. Yall act like anybody can do what Kobe is doing, if they could OJ would be leading the league in scoring. BOOK IT!!

  • http://fkjlf.com Jukai

    Kinda upsetting I keep getting the username “Hitler” with an e-mail that contains words not very friendly to Jews.
    NBK, can you give me yer top-20 list? You can have a few “can’t decide” overflows.

  • Drig

    @nbk……….want me to go ahead and prove Kobe’s better than MJ on O? AND O ONLY. MJ was by far more consistent on D and better on D and hence, is the better overall player. But I’m shocked you didnot consider the different types of offences Kobe and MJ played in OR the fact that the 3pt line was brought in etc.

  • http://larrybrownsports.com/basketball/lebron-james-played-superb-defense-on-derrick-rose/70485 nbk

    They played in the same offense. And the 3pt line was moved forward in 94-95, and then move right back to where it is now (just like it was from 1980-1994) 23 feet and 9 inches.
    .
    Jukai – I will but I have a game in 45 minutes so it’ll have to be late tonight or tomorrow…

  • http://larrybrownsports.com/basketball/lebron-james-played-superb-defense-on-derrick-rose/70485 nbk

    In 97-98* – and Jordan didn’t really benefit from the closer line because he didn’t shoot many 3′s. He was a smarter player than Kobe, and more “winning selfish” than “scoring selfish” – him and Kobe approached the game differently. And MJ never got to play with the freedom perimeter offensive players get under the rules today. (which I’m sure you took the time to consider?)

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF30WneDtQc Datkid

    soup I’ll never understand how you argue with psychos all day man…

  • bdogg

    kobe definitely deserves mvp consideration…nuff said..not sure he will win it but he should be top 3 and yeah he will get scoring title! nuff said!

  • BRYANT BYNUM GASOL 24 17 16

    Jordan sucks b@lls and isn’t even worthy of cleaning kobe’s toilet.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    @ BlackPhanties: BlackPhanties.

  • Laker nation

    I’ve figured out Black panties and NBk are full of sh^^. Kobe haters are worst than Stan’s…… Does anybody love anymore? Y’all sound like the mad rapper. Ppl said Kobe couldn’t do it without Shaquille…. He gotcha 2. Ppl say Kobe shoot too much…. He’s a SHOOTING guard! Ppl say his field goal percentage is bad….who cares he wins. If he doesn’t shoot we lose. It’s that simple. Dude is 33 and doesn’t dunk and run fast breaks like Lebron and Durant….hell we still call Durant by his last name. I swear if u take away the dunks from these youngsters they will be shooting the same percentage if not worst. Kobe24 for MVP Nuff said u knuckle heads don’t get it. U GON LEARN TODAY!

  • itigga

    I don’t see how this became a Kobe vs Jordan thing, but most of yall missed the topic, Mike Brown said Kobe should be in the MVP talk, and he should…the Lakers can’t win without him, he is the Most Valuable Player for his team compared to any other player and their team. With the exception to KD all the others like Bron, Rose, Tony Parker, Wade, CP3 and anyone else, their teams have shown that they can win when any all-star is out. Now ask the question, who’s team has a better chance at winning without them, Kobe’s or KD’s….now if you have to say “if the Lakers play to there potential” then you know good and well Kobe is the MVP because it has been shown that OKC’s role players and bench always steps up…not so much with Metta, Pau, Blake, Troy, Matt, or any of the other 8…with a new coach, about 6 or 7 new players, new system if it wasn’t for Kobe the Lakers wouldn’t be anything this year, he should be the MVP by what one person is more valuable to there team based on purely based on winning and only winning because that’s why they play right? Not for shooting %, or most shots taken, or fastest to x amount of points, but for championships…

  • Drig

    @nbk, the offenses they played in were same??? Jordan was the freaking first option in the post area where he ( and Kobe ) are at their best. Kobe proved he can put up the same stats when Pau and Bynum(?) were out during our repeat title ( I think ) for the first 8-10 games. Games in which he was playing in the post. Kobe played most of his career with post dominant players in Bynum, Pau and Shaq. The offenses were definitely different. The 3pt line was brought in from 94-97. Not just the 94-95 season. Without it, Jordan’s average from range was around 25% I think, even discounting the Wiz years. If only I could confirm with Hoopdata-esque breakdown of Jordan’s game……I’m pretty sure I’m right about both of them being equally affecting from different ranges but both putting up shots from different areas which led to Kobe’s lesser FG% ( Before you kill me, I know his shot selection leaves a LOT to be desired. If it were better, he would be around 47% career shooter ). I know the way you put up shots also counts but the O also played a sizeable role in Kobe’s inexplicable efficiency.

  • Drig

    @nbk, exactly how would Jordan’s production improve??? Would he be putting up more shots??? No. Would he have the same sort of perimeter and team that he had in the 90s? No. Which is why I don’t usually go with the put him in this NBA and he’s gonna average 50 bs. No. The O, the player’s strengths and the team needs to be in sync. BTW, I’m sure Kobe till ’08 would’ve preferred the iso or semi-zone style of play that Jordan enjoyed too. Hand-checking??? I don’t remember this correctly but I think we had handchecking till ’04 or ’03 + Zone. ( Which coincided with the lesser scoring years of the L ). Kobe seemed to do pretty well when he finally grew into ‘Frobe.

  • Drig

    Damn, I forgot to add something else : I don’t think Jordan’s stats or opinions of his game would change though, whether it’s the 90s or the 00s. It’s impossible to better them I guess lol esp. since all factors were in tune with his strengths. Fact is, he’s the best two way SG of all time, a beast on D ( he’d do well even without handchecking since he’s freakishly athletic and has great lateral quickness and good hands too ) and would still be very efficient if he had a Miami/Chi styled team right now. However, I still want to see how he’d react having his 2nd best player as a post player and rarely ever having a knockdown shooter from deep to play beside him. Just like I wonder how Kobe would do with another dominant perimeter player without a dominant post player. However, on O, Kobe’s better IMO. It’s fine if you don’t disagree though. Just don’t want others saying it ain’t even close when they talk about Kobe and Jordan on O.

  • Justin G.

    Ugh! Just when the Lebron vs Durant MVP debate was getting tiresome, some idiots want to try and compare Kobe to Jordan again. Look, just read this: http://www.broadbandreports.com/forum/r20568813-Jordan-vs-Kobe-the-numbers-speak-for-themselves and when you people that think it’s Kobe are done you can come back and apologize for being so completely ridiculous it makes my eyes burn to read your comments. Thank you

  • Justin G.

    What would MJ have averaged if there was no handchecking in his day also? Easily mid 30′s every game because with the extra trips to the line or the extra open looks after blowing by his defender, that average is going up

  • Drig

    @Justin, with that rip-through being banned, I fail to see how Jordan can get EVEN MORE FTA than he already did in the past. You do know that he averaged around 8-9 FTA per game for all of his Chicago years if you remove the Wiz years, the same as LBJ and Durant RIGHT NOW. Seriously……I don’t think he’ll go to mid 30s at all. He’ll be around 29-31 points as he has been if the team is perimeter loaded with solid role players filling up the other spots. Hell, Jordan would have to take 24 shots and around 10 FTA to get 35 points per game since his 3pt shooting would be very very bad. He’s wise not to try to shoot them. ( Kobe…..how and why in the blue hell are you shooting so many 3s this season!??! )

  • http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2012/04/mike-brown-kobe-bryant-getting-overlooked-in-mvp-race/ thePhoenix

    Lakemation’s whole perspective and credibility was lost when, at 4:56pm he said “Jordan had no Lebron nor Dwade playing together and barely had a shaq during his career of being the best in his era. ”

    The current Heat team has been together less than two years, so none of Kobe’s chips came against them anyway, nor during their ‘era’. And Shaq was a beast from 1992-1998 in that time MJ won 4 of his chips and at least the last three-peat came when Shaq was into his early prime. Not only that but the 90s had arguably the best group of centers to play in the same era: Hakeem, D. Robinson, Ewing, Shaq, and more. Furthermore, Kobe never had to compete with Shaq in his prime, THEY WERE ON THE SAME TEAM!

    And to the person who said Kobe has no all star teammates, what about Pau and Bynum?

  • http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2012/04/mike-brown-kobe-bryant-getting-overlooked-in-mvp-race/ thePhoenix

    Also @That’sGangsta at 5:17pm “Jordan won when there were no Super Teams left. Jordan got past a Pistons team, like todays lakers, who had been to three straight finals and were out of gas. The Lakers he beat were not the showtime Lakers of the 80′s.”

    So the Reggie Miller pacers, Allen Iverson’s 76ers and Jason Kidd’s Nets, Dwight Howard’s Magic they were super teams? The only super team was those Celtics whom they lost to first time around, then won when they were already getting old and had a lot of injuries.

  • Justin G.

    @Drig. Didn’t they just ban that rip through this year? How long ago did they ban handchecking? Do you also really think all Jordan had to get past someone was ripping through? His first step was just too quick for anyone to stay in front of him (I’m talking 87-92/93 here). You do know that he scored 37 and 35 ppg in ’87 and ’88 right? His FG% in those years was 48 and then a monster 54 respectively and that was with handchecking. How could he NOT do that in today’s game

  • http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2012/04/mike-brown-kobe-bryant-getting-overlooked-in-mvp-race/ thePhoenix

    I’d take those bad boy pistons over every team that the Lakers beat in the finals except maybe the Celtics. I do concede however, that during the Lakers’ three-peat the Western Finals might as well have been the NBA finals.

  • http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2012/04/mike-brown-kobe-bryant-getting-overlooked-in-mvp-race/ thePhoenix

    Actually, I’d take those Utah Jazz teams over all of them as well. You cannot say a team with a top3 PF of all time and top 10 PG of all time would not compete in today’s NBA.

  • Drig

    @Justin…….lol. Read what I said. I said his stats WOULDN’T CHANGE i.e. CANNOT INCREASE. He already shot at 50% from the field ( Although I want to know how he shot from 16-23 ft hoopdata style ).and he shot a ridiculous 22-24FGA per game during his entire Chicago career. How the hell can his stats increase if the only possible way to do so is Jordan’s biggest weakness ( his 3pt shooting?? ). The only way his scoring improves / increases is by making more 3s. And no, he won’t become anymore efficient. Again, no, I don’t think Jordan abused the rip move like Durant did last year. However, what I meant by that was that it’s almost improbable for him to average any more FTA than he has in the past in light of the fact that even a LeBron can only get as many as Jordan got in the 90s.

  • Drig

    I’ve checked it out and the L did implement handchecking+Zone till the ’04 season. So Kobe did manage to play well and had his best defensive showing of the regular season in this period (‘ 01 and ’02 ).

  • Drig

    @thePhoenix……..you’d take Malone-Stockton over Kobe-Shaq?!

  • http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2012/04/mike-brown-kobe-bryant-getting-overlooked-in-mvp-race/ thePhoenix

    @Drig … no I meant over all of the Kobe-Shaq finals opponents. Kobe-Shaq lakers were outstanding.

  • http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2012/04/mike-brown-kobe-bryant-getting-overlooked-in-mvp-race/ thePhoenix

    @Drig … sorry, I meant over all the the opponents that the Lakers with Kobe have beaten in the finals, But definitely not over the Kobe-Shaq Lakers.

  • Drig

    @Phoenix…….I don’t even think Utah would’ve managed to come to the Finals any year. I think the Spurs could sink Utah. They had the frontline to shut down Malone and had solid role players all round that played their role to perfection. But if it’s only the Finals teams you’re talking about, I’d take a healthy Houston ’94 team over all of the opponents sans ’08 Celts as well. ’08 Celts would probably trump the ’94 Rockets though.

  • Drig

    Damn, what’s with this comments system?? It’s displaying only half of the post always???

  • http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2012/04/mike-brown-kobe-bryant-getting-overlooked-in-mvp-race/ thePhoenix

    That’s a fair point. It was only the finals teams I meant, but I did earlier concede that in those early 2000s Lakers three peat the true finals were the Western Conference finals. The ’08 Celtics don’t really count because the Lakers lost to them anyway, I was referring to the teams that the Lakers beat for the championship.

  • http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2012/04/mike-brown-kobe-bryant-getting-overlooked-in-mvp-race/ thePhoenix

    Anyway, it’s all speculation, obviously. I was just pointing out that you could not categorically state that the opponents Jordan had to face to win his championships were much worse than the opponents Kobe had to face to win his.

  • Drig

    *Laker Bias at 100%* Who says we didn’t?? We just couldn’t beat the refs. LOL….Just kidding guys!!

  • http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2012/04/mike-brown-kobe-bryant-getting-overlooked-in-mvp-race/ thePhoenix

    Lol looking at the date posted ‘April 6′ it’s already April 7th where I am!

  • Drig

    I stated Kobe’s better than Jordan on O. I didn’t state Kobe had tougher Finals teams and hence is better than Jordan. However, I do think the Spurs, Kings, Celts could’ve more than held their own against any team Jordan faced in the POs.

  • lakernation

    @thePhoenix, you almost got me, but…. NOPE! Shaq as a rookie with out Penny was not a beast he was still young and learning. Stop it, Jordan sat out the 94 season trying to play baseball remember, so you cant say 92-98 homey more like 96-98 which makes him barely having shaq to compete against. Next point, Shaq got with this young man named kobe which came straight out of High School into the L. All of a sudden shaq is easily considered the most dominant center to ever play the game. Also, Kobe’s career is not over you are speaking like OKC or Miami have already won this season. So why are you talking like Kobe has retired stating none of his chips came against lebron and Dwade? I know that much i’m a lakers fan. Learn to comprehend what you read! Jordan played against a non athletic John Stockton and Malone. Who else was on that Utah team Jeff hornacek? Mind you im coming straight off the dome i’m not researching anything im 31 i’ve seen him play. Lastly Pau Gasol was not an allstar until he got with Kobe. Bynum just became an allstar this year. So yes he won with out allstars on his team. not to mention he won with LAMAR ODOM on his team NUFF SAID! Gasol and bynum are no Scottie Pippen nor Dennis Rodman. SHUT UR FACE!

  • GeeCyrous

    @ the end of the day MJ said Kobe is the only player who they can compare him with.

  • GeeCyrous

    Kobe is an being double and sometimes triple teamed at most of his possesions then MJ. He’s taking much tougher shots than MJ. I’m just saying

  • Drig

    @Lakernation……….Pau played in ’06 or ’07 ASG with Kobster. Shaq was considered the most dominant C because no one could stop him and he won 3 Finals MVPs on the trot ( FINALS. Not WCF. Kobe deserves 1 if it’s WCF ). He was the biggest matchup problem and teams usually geared their D towards stopping Shaq ( It sort of didn’t matter by the time we got the 3rd title. Teams couldn’t do anything to stop Kobe AND Shaq at the same time ). And since when are non-athletic guys any easier to play against??? Bird. Hell, even Kobe now!! Kobe won with an all-star sidekick. Just like everyone else sans Hakeem and Dirk(!) did.

  • lakernation

    @Drig… really dude, did you just look that up? Thanks but didnt need any help… i was talking to the Phoenix. And Kobe is still athletic bruh… of course bird wasnt athletic a lot of ppl wasnt in those years of basketball. Which makes my point, we are living in an era with the most athletic ballers. Good Job! with your researching.

  • Justin G.

    @Drig…In those two years that Jordan averaged 37.1 and 35, he shot 12 and 10.5 FTs per game. WITH HANDCHECKING ALLOWED! You realize that if he played in today’s game, as soon as he tried to get by someone and they put a hand on him it’s a foul right? Hence more trips to the free throw line, hence more points? So what if his career averages are the same as what Lebron and Durant are putting up now? Lebron and Durant have nowhere near the same offensive repertoire that Jordan had. I don’t know how this is even a debate.

    I don’t even know where to go with lakernation. I guess from the beginning. Shaq wasn’t a beast his rookie year huh? 23.4 points and 14 rebounds a game isn’t beasting as a rookie? Wow! Jordan barely had Shaq to compete against too you say. I guess that’s sort of true although in his first season back the Bulls did sweep the Magic out of the playoffs even though they’d been to the Finals the year before. I’m also not sure why you think athleticism is better than being a true basketball player. A non athletic John Stockton and Malone who just happen to be two of the best players the league has ever seen, with Malone being 1B for power forwards. That Utah team played the ultimate team game and were brilliantly coached by Sloan. Sometimes you people put too much emphasis on individual skills vs. how a team plays together. Also, Gasol was an All Star in ’06, before he came to the Lakers. Just sayin’

  • Drig

    @Justin……Let’s assume a crappy team for Jordan. Say, the Bobcats. Kobe when handchecking was allowed : 8 FTA per game. Without it : 10 FTA on a crappy team. Removal of handchecking doesn’t equal a gazillion more points. This isn’t one on one. If it did, Kobe would’ve feasted in ’06 ( when he got that 10 FTA. He used to be able to drive at will back then ) and Kobe by ’06 had just as good a game, dare I say better, than Jordan at this point on O. Jordan sure as hell WOULDNOT have had any better chance of improving his production. We’re not playing one on one iso here like it used to happen. Teams can now employ zones or doubles/triples to cut off the paint and force him to beat them from the perimeter. It ain’t gonna be anymore easy to waltz into the paint than it was for Jordan at that time! He was already shooting 27 times per game(!!), playing 40 minutes etc. How the hell can he improve?!?!

  • Drig

    @lakernation…….we’re also living in an era where the fundamentals aren’t as strong as well. Basically, you’re saying that on a larger level Kemp always trumps Duncan. They might match each other but over the long run, Duncan would get the better of Kemp. The superstars of this era and that era are on the same level though. It’s just that fundamentals have given way to freakish athleticism. Not a good thing.

  • Drig

    @Justin….to make it simple : Jordan already shot at 49-50%. I’m hoping even you realize that it ain’t ever gonna increase in today’s NBA. He already averages as many FTs as LBJ does and converts almost all of them. He shoots on an average 23 times a game. He plays for 38 minutes. Let’s assume he also plays D like he did when he was with Chicago. So, tell me. How the hell is Jordan gonna improve his stats without taking even more shots??? And how the hell would that make the team better? ( Kobe gets killed by few laker fans even if he’s 10 or 11 /22 for taking so many shots and cry for better balance ). Hell, him taking any more shots makes it easy for other teams to get the W. 1 on 5 never works. Esp. on O. If teams crowd the paint and force him to beat them from range, would Jordan be just as effective??? BTW, would you mind saying on what sort of a playoff team Jordan can improve his stats and be beneficial for the team???? That’d help me point out where it’s flawed more easily.

  • lakernation

    @Drig, good point… @ Justin you guys are over analyzing my comments its not that serious i’m not looking at stats bro, i could careless about stats in my point of the argument. What i’m trying to say is Kobe’s road has been a little bit harder than Jordans thats all. I’m a laker fan and definitely a KOBE fan so anything you say or try to prove wont change my train of thought. I have never seen anyone do what Kobe do, all the game winning shots! the 81 pt performance…. and the 63 pts in 3 quarters against Dallas. The first round loss against Phoenix which was the #1 seed at the time was the best loss series the lakers had that i’ve seen.

  • http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/shotchart?gameId=320404014 Allenp

    Y’all need to consider that tradeoff to zone defense from the old illegal defense rules if you’re going to talk about handchecking. The illegal defense rules of Jordan’ era made it much, MUCH more difficult to double team and recover. You could only recover to the man you left, no matter where he was on the floor. So if you isoing a player on one side of the floor was far more effective than it is today. Extremely more effective.
    That said, Jordan was more efficent because he took better shots than Kobe, and he played better defense, and he was a better passer, and a better rebounder.
    So he’s better. By a nice margin.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Kobe Bryant has been one of the most fortunate players in NBA history, he’s walked into championship caliber teams. Only 3 of his 16 seasons have been spent on a team that wasn’t competing for a title.
    .
    Drig – by same offense, I meant they both played in the triangle. Kobe was not better then Jordan offensively, at all. They are most similar in their scoring ability, but Jordan wasn’t in love with his jump shot like Kobe is. Jordan took better shots, and shot a way way better % from the floor.
    .
    Allen, that’s definitely true that Jordan benefited from the illegal defense rule but you can’t really be arguing that it was easier for a perimeter player in those days than it is today…. And David Stern and the league office like it more the way it is now, with all the freedom on the perimeter. People act like production has dipped for guards since the 90s, when really production from the post positions is at an all-time low. Jordan was beating championship caliber teams, with championship caliber centers, in an era that catered to those types of teams, and his Centers were an over the hill Bill Cartwright & Luc Longley. And he averaged 30PPG on 50% shooting while doing it. Kobe has played in the perimeter era, with HOF to All Star caliber big men with Phil Jackson after Phil had already gone through the learning process so to speak. It’s very safe to say, Jordan had a tougher road in his career than Kobe, & he was a better all-around offensive and defensive player by a good margin.

  • http://Juanm.garcia@comcast.net KingsWithRings

    In the end the rings are the great equalizer. So in order:

    1) Bill Rusell
    2) Michael Jordan
    3) Kareem Abdul Jabar
    4) Earving “Magic” Johnson
    5) Kobe Bryant
    6) Tim Duncan
    7) Shaquille O’Neal
    8) Larry Bird
    9) Wilt Chamberlain
    10) Hakeem Olajuwon

    Honorable Mention: George Mikan (before modern ball)

  • http://Juanm.garcia@comcast.net KingsWithRings

    As for saying was fortunate blah blah blah… Have you pondered if he would’ve been even more successfull had he had a team built around him from the get? Think about it.

  • http://larrybrownsports.com/basketball/lebron-james-played-superb-defense-on-derrick-rose/70485 nbk

    No he wouldnt.

  • http://larrybrownsports.com/basketball/lebron-james-played-superb-defense-on-derrick-rose/70485 nbk

    Even suggesting Kobe might have had more success on a team without Shaq says it all.

  • Drig

    @Allenp………..agreed that Jordan was the better and more consistent rebounder and defender. However, better passer??? Maybe you could convince me about that but I never thought he was better than Kobe in that regard. He definitely took better shots. His shot selection is better than Kobe’s no questions asked. Jordan’s definitely the better two-way player. But I wanted your opinion on how Kobe played on O.

  • http://larrybrownsports.com/basketball/lebron-james-played-superb-defense-on-derrick-rose/70485 nbk

    Drig did you watch a lot of Jordan? Not bein cOndesceding or anything, just wanna know? Jordan was an underrated passer, which I understand why, but he was. A lot of people who didn’t watch a ton of his career don’t think he was even a decent passer, which is pretty far from reality..

  • Drig

    @nbk…….they both play in an O that is same in name but is very inherently different. Kobe’s role in LA-triangle O is to mainly operate on the perimeter and cut while placing more emphasis on establishing the post position of the post player. MJ’s role in Chi-triangle O was to be the post threat himself with shooters covering all around him. With doubling being so constly for the other team, he could play to his liking in the post area on almost entirely iso-like plays. His efficiency is better because he gets shots closer to the rim compared to Kobe. http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Kobe%20Bryant If you look at it, sans this pretty bewildering season, Kobe’s been consistently very good from the high post area near the key or the low post area and his weakest area is the area from which he has to operate the most i.e. 16-23ft area. His shot selection sucks but let’s not say that all of it is because of his shot selection. It’s not called falling in love with your shot. LA’s perimeter production PLUMMETS if Kobe doesn’t operate from there. And if LA’s perimeter misfires as badly as it does without Kobe, LA’s bigs are gonna be rendered ineffective as the D would collapse upon the paint causing TOs.

  • Drig

    @nbk. I did. Not the very young hops with hair Jordan but the 2 3peat guys I did. But I still didn’t think he was on an another level from Kobe. Kobe can drop dimes but he doesn’t do it enough. Again, I said you could convince me about that. BTW, by awaiting moderation, how much time does it take the post to appear???

  • http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Kobe%20Bryant Drig

    Well, since external links seem to need moderator approval, I’ll give you the gist of it :

    They both play in an O that is same in name but is very inherently different. Kobe’s role in LA-triangle O is to mainly operate on the perimeter and cut while placing more emphasis on establishing the post position of the post player. MJ’s role in Chi-triangle O was to be the post threat himself with shooters covering all around him. With doubling being so constly for the other team, he could play to his liking in the post area on almost entirely iso-like plays. His efficiency is better because he gets shots closer to the rim compared to Kobe. Click my name for the hoopdata link : If you look at it, sans this pretty bewildering season, Kobe’s been consistently very good from the high post area near the key or the low post area and his weakest area is the area from which he has to operate the most i.e. 16-23ft area. His shot selection sucks but let’s not say that all of it is because of his shot selection. It’s not called falling in love with your shot. LA’s perimeter production PLUMMETS if Kobe doesn’t operate from there. And if LA’s perimeter misfires as badly as it does without Kobe, LA’s bigs are gonna be rendered ineffective as the D would collapse upon the paint causing TOs.

  • lakernation

    @nbk, good research…. lets compare championship caliber teams and those caliber championship centers. chip 1 vs. a depleted lakers roster, no james worthy…AC green stepped up. Vlade Divac was the Center…LOL Chip 2 vs. Portland who was the Center of that Game? Kevin Duckworth? LOL Chip 3 vs. Phoenix let me guess Tom Chambers…. Moving right along he sits out a year cause the games too easy i guess. Chip 4 vs. Sonics who was the center? Eddie Johnson thats right EDDIE JOHNSON! last two Chips were against the so ever overrated Utah Jazz team. That had Greg Ostertag as the Center. GTFOH the only center he went up against was Ewing. The East was weak. Now you analyze the teams Kobe went up against.

  • Drig

    Damn, nbk or allenp………can you guys do something about the moderator post??? I can’t post anything after that!

  • Drig

    @lakernation…………you do realize that almost all of those teams would blow apart the teams Kobe-Shaq faced in the NBA Finals during the 3-peat???

  • Drig

    @nbk…….if you’re gonna say Jordan was unfortunate to play with Luc Longely or Bill Cartwright, then you could say Kobe’s haunted by the devil himself with a bench that can’t hold leads together and NEVER EVER playing with a above average perimeter swingman who wasn’t over the hill ( Ariza isn’t above average. Butler was sadly shipped away before they could even establish a 1-2 game between each other )

  • lakernation

    As far as the triangle go you have to have a knock down 3 pt shooter to run that effectively and Jordan had that. Matter of fact he’s always had that! That automatically makes him a better passer because they give him the assists. What knock down three point shooter kobe had? Dereck Fisher? Rick Fox? Who?

  • Drig

    @nbk…..damn sorry about this for posting so incessantly but I dunno how to make it into paragraphs in the same post. Sorry about this. Phil didnot go through the entire learning curve. He knew how to use Kobe no doubt. But he had to experiment and learn how to incorporate him with a post-dominant O with Shaq. And exactly how did Jordan have a tougher road??? Seriously?? He was surrounded by the best team always in his prime ( 27 or 28 -33 or 34 I think ).

  • lakernation

    @drig lets see, those teams the lakers faced in the finals isnt really the battle we swept those teams, Philly won 1 game. Its a difference bruh the battle was getting to the finals itself. Facing San Antonio, Portland w/ Rasheed Wallace, Pippen, Damon Stoudamire…. Sacramento, Utah, Dallas, Phoenix, Houston…. Come on bruh any of those teams i listed would have beat down those chip teams the bulls beat.

  • Drig

    I doubt Portland could’ve beaten Utah but Spurs and SAC can definitely hold their own I guess. Magic ’09? No. Celts ’10?? They probably played the best team D I’ve ever seen ( Yeah, I know. ’08 does exist and it’s just as good ) and they would’ve given any team nightmares.

  • http://larrybrownsports.com/basketball/lebron-james-played-superb-defense-on-derrick-rose/70485 nbk

    When I get back in the office I’ll link my name to an article you can read Drig. I am just not trying to go through this debate again today. When I said Jordan had a tougher road I meant he didn’t spend his whole career in championship contention and started in a much tougher NBA in the 80s. Jordan had to learn how to win as the best player on a team. Kobe couldn’t win without another All Star Big, hell he had trouble even making the playoffs.
    .
    Their offenses were the same, it was a triple post, Jordan plate the 3 in the Bulls triangle, Kobe played the 3 in the Lakers triangle (yes the Small Forward position) – in each triangle Phil Jackson adapted the offense to cater to his best players. While Kobe is/was a good post player he was still better at scoring while facing a guy up and getting them off balance, while Jordan won titles playing the same offensive role Kobe had during his first 3-peat (scoring more from a perimeter position then a post position). During the second 3-peat Jordan went to the post more, and this worked because he was still über efficient, something you can never say about Kobe at any point in his career. Basically the reason the offenses were slightly different was because you had different players with different strengths. Jordan was a better facilitator then Kobe, the offense didn’t stall (as much) when Jordan touched the ball as it does with Kobe. And Jordan also didn’t have the range Kobe has, so the closer in you got him the ball the more effective and dangerous he became. Kobe is/was basically a 45% shooter everywhere on the court. Less efficient, but effective from more areas.
    .
    When I say they aren’t comparable I mean in their performance, not in their skill level or style of play, they are very close in that regard, skill wise Kobe is probably actually better. Jordan was just smarter with how he used the skills he had. Like passing, Jordan (once he got Phil Jackson) became a much more willing passer which made it almost impossible for teams to key in on him, unlike Kobe who would still rather score over a double team than pass out of it. Which makes Jordan a better distributor.
    .
    If this is jumbled and there are a plethora of typos I apologize, I’m not at a computer and am sittin in a car typing from my phone.

  • lakernation

    Oh and BTW that Kobe Shaq laker team holds the best post season record in NBA history at 15-1 only lost 1 to Philly. WHO DOES THAT?!

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    A team with 2 of the top 10 players of all-time.

  • Drig

    @lakernation…………the best 1-2 punch in the L’s history. But remember, 1 without the 2 or 2 without the 1 isn’t quite as memorable.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Drig, Definitely feel you on allot of your points. I personally think Kobe is the better offensive talent. I think he is the better 1 on 1 player overall. Basketball has so many aspects and MJ is better overall to which you have admitted. There are all sorts of scenarios where I personally would take Kobe over Jordan. When I say all sorts of scenarios I mean; playground, 3 on 3, HORSE, 3 point shooter. Closer is a toss up for me. BUT, in NBA basketball, MJ is just the better overall player by a small amount in some category’s, a large amount in others, and Bean only better a a few.
    -nbk: That was a very fair, intelligible, last post. Appreciate your perspective when you convey it like you did there. Nicely done on the phone btw lol.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Drig, want proof Jordan was a better passer? In 1988-89 he played PG. He had a stretch of 11 games in which he tallied 10 triple doubles.
    .
    Remember how terrible the Lakers were in terms of PG play and passing the ball for the last decade?
    .
    Jordan had the same problem in 1988-89 so he switched to PG and averaged 32PPG, 8RPG, 8APG. Kobe Bryant has never had a season relatively close to that.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Appreciate it Lakeshow, I’m trying to illustrate the difference between the two without making it look like I have something against Kobe. Kobe is an absolutely great great great player all-time. It’s just when comparing him to Jordan he doesn’t look that way.
    .
    Things like this: Kobe scored 27,868 points in 15 seasons, and MJ scored 32,292 in the same amount of time. That’s is a huge difference. Especially considering Jordan missed 12,345 shots in that time while shooting 24,537 shots. Kobe missed 12,386 shots in 22,648 attempts. That’s almost 2,000 more shot attempts from Jordan and still he missed less shots.

  • Drig

    @nbk……..Kobe hasn’t won without an all-star big just like Mike hasn’t won without an all-star wingman. Goes two ways. Also, Kobe had difficulty even making the POs??? Of course he did. The West was probably the most deepest back then. I just checked something out : Jordan’s Bulls, in his second season when Mike was out with a broken foot for the majority of the season, made the POs with a 30-52 record. 30-52!!! In his first season, Bulls were 38-44. In his 3rd season, Bulls were 40-42. Losing records and they still managed to get in. The year Kobe and co. didn’t make it in, I think Kobe and Odom were injured at different stretches while we also had a coaching change ( Those were DARK DAYS for me lol ) mid-season. 87-88 was the season MJ took the Bulls singehandedly to a winning 50-32 record which was better than Kobe’s ’06 team which also managed a winning 45-37 record. One guy’s team had losing seasons and they entered the POs while the other guy wasn’t that lucky. Simple.

  • Drig

    The O again wasn’t the same!! Simply put, MJ was able to play closer to the rim. Kobe wasn’t. Check that link I gave you again. There’s almost a 10% FG% difference between 3-16ft and 16-23ft shooting of Kobe’s!! And Kobe takes as many FGA from that area as he does from 0-16ft! Why? Because LA for almost all of Kobe’s career, never had a solid perimeter player who could take the load off of him if he went to the post!!! Think how much of a difference it would make to his FG%! Again, I draw your attention to the run of 10-11 games that Kobe played sans Pau and probably Drew manning the paint and he was going bonkers with 51% efficiency and all during our repeat title. He can do it. It’s just that he’s basically sacrificing what’s easier for him to make it easier for the team to operate. Just check out that hoop data link which I put with my name in only one post. But agree that Kobe’s more effective from different parts of the court since he’s got more range.

  • Drig

    @Lakeshow…….thanks man! Maybe it’s Kobe’s recent slump the past two months but my Chicago pals made sure I heard it loud and clear that Kobe was sucking it up for LA and Jordan was better on O than Kobe could ever dream to be – and more. They asked for an ass whopping. They got one lol.
    .
    .
    .
    @nbk…….don’t worry man. I’ve read your posts and I know you don’t hate Kobe. What you have are legit gripes with Kobe that every Laker fan knows. So don’t mind going overboard at some point if you wanna make a strong point. I know I have done so the last post about MJ. MJ got 8APG?!?!?! for a 11 game stretch!?!?! Anyone has vids of those games? Or links to them? If it is true, then I’ll say Jordan was the better passer.

  • http://www.michaeljordansworld.com/statistics/triple_doubles.htm nbk

    Jordan averaged 8APG for the season in 88-89, i mean you can just look that up on Basketball-Reference.
    .
    He had an 11 game stretch in which he recorded 10 triple doubles that season. That stretch of games was absolutely bananas.
    .
    Click my name though, look at the stretch from March 25 to April 14 1989.

  • Drig

    Damn, those are Oscaresque right there! I’ll go by your word then nbk. BTW, nice talking with you guys. Don’t shy away from rebuking my post though about their O though nbk. It’s pretty fun and I learnt about this MJ stretch of games as well :P . Now, I need to try to get some vids of those games……However, even with the passing, I got Kobe better than MJ right now…….by a hair. That’d mean MJ as a two-way player is better than Kobe by……..a bigger margin than I thought….Good night fellas!! It’s almost 12am here in India lol.

  • http://www.michaeljordansworld.com/statistics/triple_doubles.htm nbk

    Have a good night, I’ll reply some more about the offenses in a bit, I’m at work and real busy trying to get off early. Stay up.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Dear goodness man. India!? I’m West Coast, it’s noon here almost!

  • itigga

    Once again what does Kobe vs Jordan have to do with Kobe being the MVP this year?

  • lakernation

    @drig, you are really doing your homework, great posts man… @nbk not bad either you’re all about the stats….. Im glad you understand what kind of team kobe and shaq was. but the downfall to our lakers dynasty was the ego of Kobe wanting to prove so many ppl wrong about being able to win with out shaq. Kobe is only 33 though, he has a lot of balling left, so its not over. Michael Jordan was 34 when he won his last chip…. retired came back to do some tarnishing and finally gave it up at 39.

  • lakernation

    lol @itigga

  • http://larrybrownsports.com/basketball/lebron-james-played-superb-defense-on-derrick-rose/70485 nbk

    Kobe has already played more than Jordan did.

  • manu

    jordans worst shooting season is kobes best …. jordan has 6 finals mvps , kobe has 2…..jordan has 5 reg season mvps , kobe has 1……mj, wilt, russell, kareem, magic, bird, shaq, duncan are ALL better than kobe….duncan was the mvp for 3 rings and has 2 reg season mvps….shaq was the man for 3 rings….until kobe gets another finals mvp he’s still behind those 2

  • manu

    kobe is better at nothing…..jordan hit 3′s in the finals like butter….kobe still bricks em…..jordan got more boards, more assists, more steals, more points more everything

  • http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2012/04/lebron-james-won-the-mvp-battle-over-kevin-durant/ thePhoenix

    @Lakernation: I’m sorry, but Shaq was a beast from the day he stepped into the league. Well over 20 and 10 with 2 blocks per. And yes MJ did retire, so let’s just count the last three-peat. That three-peat began the year AFTER the Shaq-led Magic went to the finals, so yes Shaq was dominant then. The Bulls even beat the Magic in the playoffs once (maybe more) of those three-peat years. So to say that MJ didn’t go up against a dominant Shaq is straight false. He sure played against a more dominant Shaq than Kobe would have faced after Shaq left L.A. I really don’t think is valid to say Kobe came to LA out of high school then “all of a sudden” Shaq was dominant. Firstly, Shaq dominated anyway, secondly Kobe wasn’t really considered that good his first 3 years in the league, so would have had little influence on Shaq’s dominance. If anything, Shaq allowed Kobe to become so good. I know Kobe is in the league still, I’m not acting like his career is over. I’m acting like none of his chips came against a ‘Dream Team’ like the Heat, which is true. What you say about Kobe never playing with All-Stars is utterly false. First you say Jordan never had to play against Shaq which implies Shaq would be tough to beat even for arguably the greatest player of all time. Do you see how, if Shaq is such a tough match-up in your mind for MJ, then having him ON YOUR TEAM (aka Kobe) surely blows your argument out of the water. Bynum is no Pippen and Pippen is no 3xfinals MVP Shaquille O’Neal. And like someone said before, more athletic does not always mean better. Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzi, Steve Nash, John Stockton, Larry Bird OR Gerald Green, Tyrus Thomas, Steve Francis, Stephon Marbury? ….Malone and Stockton are ALL TIME Greats. Not to mention the early 90s Suns who faced the Bulls in the finals. Barkley had just come off the MVP, and that Suns is better than almost all of the teams Kobe’s Lakers faced in the finals.

  • http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2012/04/lebron-james-won-the-mvp-battle-over-kevin-durant/ thePhoenix

    @Drig …. Sorry, my argument was addressed at somebody (I think Lakernation) who said that essentially because MJs finals opponents were easier beats than Kobe’s finals opponents then Kobe is greater. I wasn’t disputing your arguments. Yours at least carry truth and use logic. Whereas Lakernation’s reasoning is flawed and not even based on actual fact.

  • Drig

    @itigga………because it’s already known LBJ is the MVP and it was a slow day lol.
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    @manu……You do realize that Kobe was just as important, if not more, than Shaq was in the WCF which were widely considered the NBA Finals at that time for the last 2 titles of the 3peat???? Too bad they don’t have any awards to show that though.

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