Thursday, June 28th, 2012 at 9:30 am  |  141 responses

Lakers, Hawks Discussing a Trade Involving Josh Smith and Pau Gasol?


Despite the Los Angeles Lakers’ stated desire not to make any major roster moves this summer, reports continue to claim that they’re actively shopping Pau Gasol. The latest rumor is that there are talks between LA and Atlanta about a possible swap involving Gasol and Josh Smith. Per the LA Times and AJC: “Smith has been unhappy in Atlanta for more than a year, his dissatisfaction starting after the 2010-11 season because he felt he was an unfair target of criticism by coaches and media members. In separate activity leading up to Thursday’s amateur draft, the Lakers are also open to trading Gasol to a team with a high first-round pick because they covet Kentucky freshman Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. Atlanta holds the 23rd pick and cannot help in that area. No deals were imminent for the Lakers, who hold only the 60th and final pick in the draft. They have not had a first-round pick since taking Javaris Crittenton in 2007. Last season, Smith averaged career-highs in points (18.8) and rebounds (9.6) for the Hawks. He is only 26, five years younger than Gasol. If the Lakers struck a deal with Atlanta, they would lose the height advantage that made them one of the longest teams in the NBA — Smith is 6 feet 9, three inches shorter than Gasol — but would instantly become more athletic. Smith is an incredibly active defender and has career averages of 1.3 steals and 2.2 blocked shots. Two years ago, he became the youngest player ever with 1,000 career blocked shots. He has one more year on his contract for $13.2 million and becomes an unrestricted free agent in June 2013 unless he signs an extension. The Lakers would also benefit financially from a deal involving the two players: Gasol has two more years and $38.3 million on his contract. It is unclear which player would accompany Smith to the Lakers in such a scenario. [...] And a big caveat is that his report says the Hawks first expressed interest in Gasol after Los Angeles was eliminated from the playoffs by the Thunder, back when Rick Sund was still Hawks GM. The Hawks have since hired GM Danny Ferry, who says he’s focused more on building long term. Gasol turns 32 next week and is owed more than $38 million over the next two seasons. [...] Smith, who can become an unrestricted free agent next summer, first told the Hawks he wanted to be traded after last season and reiterated that desire prior to this season’s deadline. Smith wants to join a franchise he feels is more committed to winning and play in a market with better fan support.”

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  • edeezy

    Why is it so wrong to try and emulate the best player of the game? Everyone does this at one point or the next.

  • Ldub

    Not like a shaq dominance no! Pippen was a lock down defender. tpath…you do realize Jordan didnt create his own style of play. Every player had to try and copy a form of another. What is the big deal with looking at what someone great did, and trying to incorporate that into your own game, so that you can be great and perhaps even greater? Jordan would never play with Shaq because shaq was as dominant if not more. That is the main reason why Kobe and Shaq didnt work. You cant have 2 alpha dogs. Pip wasnt an Alpha. He knew that Jordan was. Kobe and Shaq both wanted to be.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMo_HcRBnUY LakeShow

    Going back to where he was as a rookie was an improvement. Plus that’s not even true. He was a much better player for the Lakers in his 3rd year then he was as a rook in MIA. You should know not to just look at PPG and judge everythign about a player from that. He dropped off significantly his 2nd year then re-surged with Bryant on the Lakers.
    Faux-History going on here.
    Kobe missed 20+ games that year in addition to Odom. Kobe also averaged 6 Assists per game.
    .
    Caron gave Kobe this glowing review on his 1 year with him in which you say he had a negative impact on him.
    Read and weep: “I say that’s the best thing that ever could have happened for me personally for my career,” Butler said. “To play alongside a guy like that, see his preparation, see what it takes to get to that level, that’s why I was able to be so good in Washington because I took everything I learned from him under his wing.”
    -Caron Butler on his year in LA with KB.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    Please make this trade!!

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMo_HcRBnUY LakeShow

    “That’s why I was able to be so good in Washington because I took everything I learned from him under his wing.”
    .
    Just wanted to post that part one more time. We internet bloggies love to act like we know what’s going on in areas outside our knowledge, but sometimes we just don’t.
    Caron gives Kobe credit for his career success, and we still got internet GM’s giving their analysis like it’s fact.
    Good thing there are facts out there.
    .
    Saying that Kobe doesn’t make his team mates better is an interesting debate. I see where your coming from. He doesn’t have a point guard mindset like some of the greats have, so he often doesn’t look like he’s helping his team mates from the assist column. TBH, I don’t think he likes to pass. But in general he is helping his team mates. You know why? Because they are learning from him and his mentality on what it takes to win, and to be the best, and that in turn makes them better. Butler quote is one of many of Kobe’s team mates speaking well on how he helped their game out. You don’t have to be Magic to make players better.

  • phil da windmill

    aye man gasol soft as a mutha fugga we dont need his weak post moves either sorry fam my hawks can do without ya.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Learning from someone and them making you a better player while SHARING the court are different. Kobe is a great individual example, but he doesn’t make his TEAMMATES better. Hence Butler improving once he left. And Butler’s role changed his 2nd year, which is why his statistics suffered. He went back to that role in LA. And I don’t give a flying sh*t about Kobe’s APG, that doesn’t mean he’s making people better, that means he is the only guy with the ball. Making your teammates better isn’t about assists, it’s about making them perform better, by lifting THEIR performance. Kobe has never done that. With anyone.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    It’s not exactly difficult concepts here.
    1. Duncan is the greatest player drafted between 1995-1999. Kobe is second. I’d probably take KG 3rd.
    2. Kobe CAN be the best 2 guard in the L today, but he sure wasn’t these Playoffs.
    3. On the court, Kobe doesn’t make teammates better. Off the court, he most certainly does.
    4. Kobe’s defense has been overrated since about 2008. Even LakeShow will cosign that.
    5. Nobody should take Shock Exchange seriously. He (sometimes) has some good points, but most of it is buried underneath idiocy masquerading as “bold statements.” Think Sarah Palin.
    6. Kobe does need great teammates to win. So does Jordan, Duncan, Shaq, LeBron, Wilt, Russell, Bird, Magic, etc.
    7. I don’t think Josh Smith is the answer for LA. His lack of a perimeter game won’t translate well to Mike Brown’s “offense.”
    8. Shut up with the Jeopardy talk. Hey Shock Exchange, question for you, why didn’t Jordan win 9 rings? Because he didn’t stay 4 years in college or because of his gaming problem? -Jeopardy music plays ad infinitum-
    9. I expect my troll to show up after this, but know this is the real me. Y’all know I love my lists.

  • http://Slamonline nbk

    I stink of gorilla juice all day err day

  • http://slamonline.com Datkid

    I leave for 2 days and you guys are ready to murder each other…smh. This a bad trade for LA.. and an awesome one for ATL. Bike has to be NBK’s troll. the post above me condemns him… and lmaoooooo @ caboose comparing shock exchange to sarah palin.

  • http://Slamonline nbk

    Datkid, that wasn’t me. I’m the real troll

  • bike

    LOL stupid SLAM

  • bigA

    To all the losers here: Please stop trolling!I want basketball insight! No more comments reflectiing on how pathetic your life is.

  • tpathi1

    i could care less about the ‘style of play’ that was emulated…what bothers me is the on and off court mannerisms..like when jordan used to get hot and the way he would back peddle on defense with his head bobbing..what makes another man want to copy that? or how when the game would get real physical jordan point his finger directly at your face..i seen Kobe do that nonsense too..its one thing to copy/emulate someone’s game..but when you try to copy/emulate anothers whole life, then expect a problem

  • tpathi1

    you can even make an argument that he copied MJ’s voice…who does that?!

  • Sérgio

    Caboose, if Kobe wasn’t the best SG in the playoffs, who was then? Wade? His 23 ppg is ridiculously low for him, and he took a backseat to Lebron. Harden? The guy struggled mightly against LA and disappeared in the Finals.
    Sure, 2012 Playoffs wasn’t the best of KB’s career, specially on his FG%. But f@ck, the guy averaged 30, 5, 5 yet again, so lets give him what is due.

  • Ldub

    For sake of typing an extremely long response. Simply put, youre wrong tpath. And your love for your own city blinds you from greatness of other players that arent in Chicago. Ask yourself this….does every single player that does what Jordan did through his career, copy his mannerisms? KG does the finger point, Ive seen Vince Carter do it as well (along with the shoulder shrug). Jeremy Lin backs up and nods. And my 45 year old brother sounds just like Jordan too. But like Kobe, I guess he realized that in order to be a success in life, its a prerequisite to be MJ. Well his copycat anyways.

  • Ldub

    Caboose…I agree with you on everything except Kobe not being the best 2 guard in the playoffs. I have to ask the ? that Sergio asked…who was better? Cuz Wade was injured, Ginobli was good but he isnt Kobe. Come to think about it, those are really the only three 2 guards I can say were close to Kobe in the playoffs.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMo_HcRBnUY LakeShow

    Co-Sign L-Dub’s life.
    Caboose, it’s on like diddy kong racing homie.
    Wasn’t the best 2 guard in the L? I beg to differ… Unless facts won’t persuade you, you will soon realize he was far and away the best 2 guard in the post season.

  • Sérgio

    Well, Nbk and Caboose, I have a question for you: if you were to start a team from scratch, who would you choose, Duncan or Garnett? Remember, the team would have the same players, the only difference would be TD or KG.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    I’m happy to debate, and you probably are right, I think I’m relying far too much on subjective evidence (e.g. Seeing Kobe shoot the Lakers out of games). Here, I’ll concede this, Kobe most certainly posted the best numbers of any 2 guard in the playoffs. His decision making and positive impact on games were spotty at crucial times, but as a whole, he still was an elite player. Up until the Finals, I would have said Harden, but he ruined that. An argument can be made for Wade’s defense, but if you give me some facts (I’m interested), I’ll probably concede.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Sergio: Duncan every single time.

  • Sérgio

    Caboose, I agree with you that Kobe forced the issue at the end of games. This, combined with the drop off in Bynum’s and Gasol’s production in the Playoffs, took LA away from WCF semifinals. I would like to see KB not trying to do it all at the end of games, but it must have been tough to look around and see an afraid as hell Sessions, an immature Bynum who was inconstant in effort and the softness of Gasol, who inexplicably (ok, in parts – Mike Brown is to blame a bit for that) refused to shoot.
    As for TD x KG, aside from rings, I’m inclined to say that KG is (or was) the better player. Maybe TD was a little bit better on offense, but, to me, KG was a better shooter, passer and defender. I know TD was more clutch, and his rings will always put him above KG in the all-time greats list, but if I were starting a team, I’d be leaning towards KG.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Hmm, I will contend that while KG was the more -versatile- defender, I would say Duncan is the more -impactful- defender. The last 4 years notwithstanding, in their youth, Duncan anchored a defense that was long considered the best in the L. KG shut his man down, but was never a great team defender (until Boston).
    -
    Also, I’d point to the slow start of KG. Duncan came right into the league as arguably the best PF. KG took a little while, which should be factored in if we’re building a team from scratch.
    -
    I will grant that KG has more range on his shot and could -dominate- the offensive flow of a game better than Duncan, but nobody has ever rivaled Duncan’s prowess on the low block. McHale may be the closest.
    -
    Garnett is a better passer. Done.
    -
    Timmy has understood the team concept the entirety of his career. Again, until Boston, KG was widely seen as a difficult teammate to play with, as the Wolves kept trying to plug in pieces around him. Timmy made damn near everyone better who he played with. Both on the court and off.
    -
    With all this, especially Duncan’s sheer value as a teammate and “coach,” I’ll take Timmy.

  • tpathi1

    if kobe and shaq played together thruout the 2000′s there would never have been a debate about tim duncan and his greatness…he would have only won two rings and no one would ever put some label on him as the best PF of all time.. and shaq and kobe would have won like 8 chips atleast…you guys need to understand how kobe’s selfishness altered the course of NBA history

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMo_HcRBnUY LakeShow

    30 points (all-be-it on 25 shots) with 5 rebounds and 4+ Ast gives him the statistical advantage over Harden and Wade. Wade’s defense was not great throughout the post season. I would argue they had a very similar defensive impact to Bryant. Ginobli was great, and honestly he is the one I have as the 2nd best SG in the playoffs. Followed by Wade then Harden.
    Kobe had some bad moments, but overall he had a very successful individual playoffs. He also had some moments of brilliance, but they were negated by his stupid turnovers and lack of clutch shooting. Bean wasn’t AWESOME, but neither was Wade or Harden. They all had their moments. Ginobli might have had the greatest moments, but not the overall impact.

  • Sérgio

    I gotta disagree with KG not being a great team defender. He was always huge, patrolling the paint, closing on open shooters and rotating. To me, he is, maybe, the best defender of all-time (but I can understand anyone that make an argument for Russel, Pippen or Olajuwon).

    Duncan’s post game has always been superior to Garnett’s, but there are players who were even better in the block, as Olajuwon, Mchale, Barkley, Moses.

    In regard to KG being hard to deal, I see him like Jordan or Kobe: basketball has always been everything to him. He’s always been ultra intense, and this kind of people have a hard time seeing others not giving 100% effort. Even then, we see cats like Pierce proclaiming that he is the best teammate he’s ever had. Or, what is to me the ultimate definition of a great leader: when he won the Defensive Player of the Year in 2008 and called the whole Boston team to receive the award with him, saying that the team won that, not him. That was amazing.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMo_HcRBnUY LakeShow

    tpath your kinda ‘trolly’ these days.
    Either admit Kobe is unquestionably a top 15 all time NBA talent or forever have your opinion be muted forever.

  • tpathi1

    as much as i am not a fan of his im not dumb..kobe a top 15 ball player..but when you talk about the opportunity he had to be a legit top 5 baller of all time…and maybe even #2..being in the top 15 is a huge dropoff

  • tpathi1

    i am also not a fan of this notion that wade was playing good defense..he plays individual d and he does get spectacular blocks…probably one of the best blocking sg’s in a long long time..but blocking shots doesnt make you a great defender..more often than not he was getting burnt up by rw and rondo..it was probably his knee but man his d was irritating to watch at times

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Sergio, you’re building mostly off of his Boston days when he transmogrified into a great teammate. Undoubtedly, 2008-2012 Garnett is superior to 2008-2012 Duncan. Absolutely. But to me, 1997-2007 Duncan is better than 1997-2007 Garnett. Again, I said that Garnett became a great team defender when he moved to Boston. True. But why we’re his T’Wolves teams consistently among the worst defensive teams in the league? If you argue that it’s because of his bad teammates, I would point to Orlando’s defensive dominance with Dwight anchoring the middle. Barkley doesn’t have the post game Duncan has, let’s get that straight. It comes down to whether you prefer potential results (Garnetf) or sheer, consistent winning (Duncan).
    -
    Lake, fair enough, on paper, Kobe looks solid, it’s actually watching the game that throws me. Concede this, there were A LOT of times when you were frustrated with Kobe shooting LA out of a game. I really don’t want to say he was the best SG, but I have to, only because there aren’t any other options.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMo_HcRBnUY LakeShow

    Concede.
    Wade just didn’t do anything to make me think, “Now that guy is better than Kobe.”
    Nawdameen?
    If anything, i’m down to say Ginobli was the best 2 guard at this point lol.
    Loving the classic TD vs KG debate. Always a goodie cause I don’t know who I’d take, or who was better. They are two of the greatest that’s for sure.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Word LakeShow. Give me your thoughts on TD vs KG. To me, honestly, it’s not close.

  • Sérgio

    In regard to Kobe, he really forced the issue and caused (not only by his acts) 2 Lakers losses vs OKC. But he also won Game 3 alone, almost miraculously led LA to a comeback in Game 5 vs Denver and played by himself, with no help whatsoever in Game 6 vs Denver and 5 vs OKC. It was really sad to see him givin all he had, while the other guys (except for Metta) were playing with no f#ckin heart.

    In respect to Howard’s argument, well, that is a miracle by his part, and I honestly do not remember any other team with only 1 great defender that became a great defensive team because of him. And I dont’t think TD we’d had fared better defensively with Sczberkiak, Marbury and those other scrubs.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMo_HcRBnUY LakeShow

    I feel that Garnett is the more trancendent talent. I don’t even know what that means, but what I mean it to mean is that he is the overall more prolific basketball player. He has more intangibles and tangibles at his peak than Duncan did, BUT… Duncan has a proven record. A clean slate on team mate approval, and coach approval. Garnett has not always been loved by his team mates and coaches.
    Take their 2 best individual statistical seasons and put them next to each other.
    24,13.9,5,50% with 2.2 blks 1.5 Stls
    25,12.7,3.7,50% with 2.5 blks .7 Stls
    .
    .
    .
    The first is KG the 2nd Duncan.
    Stats don’t tell you who’s better even when they seem to. In this case the stats could support either one. So as I said, love the discussion, but really I cannot decide who was truly “better” than the other at NBA basketball.
    I’ll say this:
    Duncan = Better Career
    Garnett = (ever so slightly) Better Overall Player
    That still leaves it as a toss up to me. Career achievements mean allot.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    LakeShow, my counter is that KG had a little bit of Kevin Love syndrome when he played for the Wolves. See what happened when he got to a team that had proven talent on it? Duncan knew how to put up insane numbers WITHIN a system. KG could never do that. He could either win, or dominate the offense, but never both. Maybe that sounds harsh, but the career accomplishments prove that.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMo_HcRBnUY LakeShow

    I did see what happened… He won a chip…
    Kevin Love syndrome is very unregulated. You got guys who can put up 20 PPG on a crap team but you put them on a good team and they are a guy you only want to give you 12PPG tops. K-Love and Garnett(and Duncan for this matter) are dudes that are going to give you whopping STATS in either scenario. Winning or Losing.
    Finally my point. Swap Duncan and Garnett’s careers as far as teams go, and I truly think you would see them in a different light.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    He won a ring, but with reduced stats. That’s my point, Garnett had a ring OR stats. Duncan had ring(s) AND stats.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Duncan. More consistent. Less volatile. He was an offensive and defensive anchor. He was never overmatched. He could guard 4′s and 5′s. KG was physically unable to handle certain physical players, he couldn’t check Duncan for example, and never had the offensive game to completely exploit a guy like Duncan on the other end. Duncan was a much more polished low post player, the offense could run through him AND rely on him to carry it as an isolation player. Garnett was a better player at certain points and undoubtedly in certain situations. Garnett was probably a more “versatile” defender in what he could do against a pick and roll while being able to cover 4 positions adequately rather than 2 like Duncan. But Duncan was a far far superior rim protector. And to me, that is much more valuable (especially in their respective eras) aspect of their games then Garnett’s ability to guard the perimeter. Duncan was basically universally effective at carrying a team on both ends, while Garnett never was.
    .
    But i would say Garnett in 2006 was absolutely masterful on both ends. He just never dominated year in and year out (especially in the playoffs) like Duncan did. It’s deeper than stats, it’s about their effect on wins and losses.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Well said nbk.

  • http://Slam Delicious

    Trade Kobe to Philly for Igadolla/ holiday/ scrub
    Trade Bynum for D Howard
    Trade metta peace/scrub for P pierce
    Keep gasol
    Sign D Williams
    2013 Lakers
    Pg- d Williams sg-Igadolla
    Sf- pierce pf- gasol c- d Howard

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