Quantcast
Thursday, June 28th, 2012 at 9:30 am  |  141 responses

Lakers, Hawks Discussing a Trade Involving Josh Smith and Pau Gasol?


Despite the Los Angeles Lakers’ stated desire not to make any major roster moves this summer, reports continue to claim that they’re actively shopping Pau Gasol. The latest rumor is that there are talks between LA and Atlanta about a possible swap involving Gasol and Josh Smith. Per the LA Times and AJC: “Smith has been unhappy in Atlanta for more than a year, his dissatisfaction starting after the 2010-11 season because he felt he was an unfair target of criticism by coaches and media members. In separate activity leading up to Thursday’s amateur draft, the Lakers are also open to trading Gasol to a team with a high first-round pick because they covet Kentucky freshman Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. Atlanta holds the 23rd pick and cannot help in that area. No deals were imminent for the Lakers, who hold only the 60th and final pick in the draft. They have not had a first-round pick since taking Javaris Crittenton in 2007. Last season, Smith averaged career-highs in points (18.8) and rebounds (9.6) for the Hawks. He is only 26, five years younger than Gasol. If the Lakers struck a deal with Atlanta, they would lose the height advantage that made them one of the longest teams in the NBA — Smith is 6 feet 9, three inches shorter than Gasol — but would instantly become more athletic. Smith is an incredibly active defender and has career averages of 1.3 steals and 2.2 blocked shots. Two years ago, he became the youngest player ever with 1,000 career blocked shots. He has one more year on his contract for $13.2 million and becomes an unrestricted free agent in June 2013 unless he signs an extension. The Lakers would also benefit financially from a deal involving the two players: Gasol has two more years and $38.3 million on his contract. It is unclear which player would accompany Smith to the Lakers in such a scenario. [...] And a big caveat is that his report says the Hawks first expressed interest in Gasol after Los Angeles was eliminated from the playoffs by the Thunder, back when Rick Sund was still Hawks GM. The Hawks have since hired GM Danny Ferry, who says he’s focused more on building long term. Gasol turns 32 next week and is owed more than $38 million over the next two seasons. [...] Smith, who can become an unrestricted free agent next summer, first told the Hawks he wanted to be traded after last season and reiterated that desire prior to this season’s deadline. Smith wants to join a franchise he feels is more committed to winning and play in a market with better fan support.”

  • Add a Comment
  • Share
  • RSS

Tags: , , ,

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    This would be a great deal for both teams. The Lakers finally get that athletic forward they have been looking for and the Hawaks get a legit post threat. Now…only if they can find a way to get rid of JJohnson.

  • bdogg

    as much as i like this..do not see j-smooth as a great fit..short term sure but i do not want to waste a trade of pau for josh smith..maybe that is just me!

  • Myung

    So Pau will end up on the team that drafted him? Interesting… I’m OK with this trade, as long as they’re willing to take Marvin’s contract with Josh.

  • Myung

    Plus, I can’t stand the Lakers OR Kobe, so seeing Kobe having to co-exist with Josh and his love of the all things jumper would be fantastic.

  • T-Money

    that’s a win win. horford has been dying to play the 4 for years and lakers need an athletic guy in the worst way.

  • http://www.twitter.com/_dfrance dfrance21

    Watching Kobe clap his hands in disgust as J-Smoooooooove bricks jumper after jumper from just within the 3 point line is gonna be must see TV.

  • http://www.newyorkshockexchange.com Shock Exchange

    Watching a catfight between Horry, Jr and Josh Smith on the regular would make my year.

  • tpathi1

    smh another player kobe will mentally destroy

  • ratguts

    @Jtaylor ATL dug a grave when they gave Johnson that contract, now they have to lie in it with him.

  • T-Money

    tpahi1: i don’t think josh smith can be mentally destroyed. he truly doesn’t give a eff about anyone or anything – which is a good and a bad thing.

  • Myung

    I hated the Joe contract as much as any Hawk fan so I’ll start with that. It was a mistake from the moment it happened (Joe got probably $40 million more than his market value). That being said, it can’t be un-done so there’s no need for us (Hawks fans) to continue griping about it. I haven’t met a single Hawks fan who liked the deal when it happened. We either wanted Joe to leave or have the Hawks offer him roughly $75 to $90 million MAX. NO ONE wanted us to offer him max money. We all know he’s a boring player. We all know he never should’ve been a #1 (he’s best suited to be a #2 player) of a franchise, yet he was clearly paid like one. Blah blah blah. Same old stuff. The rest of the story is this: (1) He’s already played through two years of it (2) There are much worse contracts in the NBA… (3)… especially if you consider that the past two years, Joe has been an All Star (he’s a 6 time All Star) (4) So while he’s overpaid, he’s not an overpaid scrub (like a lot of current players in the NBA) and (5) He is still a very productive shooting guard (currently the position with the greatest scarcity in the NBA) whose game isn’t based on athleticism so his game probably won’t fall off too much, even as he climbs toward his mid-30′s. And that’s only if he plays through the entire contract. I’d like to see us amnesty him in a year or two. The only reason we’d even consider using it right now is if Dwight would agree to play in his hometown, but he hasn’t indicated at all that he wants to play in Atlanta. There are no other players out there this summer who are worth gutting our team for so we might as well ride it out with him for a year or two and continue to get All Star value out of him, even if he is overpaid. But for sure, I completely agree with the assessment that Joe’s contract really hampered us for the next few years. We all knew that was going to happen the moment the ink dried. It is what it is.

  • Reggie06

    Yea its good enough only if we cant get tops 15 first roynd pick

  • Ldub

    I like the trade for both sides. Tpath…I think Kobe wants to win more than anything. Yes Pau was a great teammate, but Lakers gotta look at the future. If I had a choice I would rather play with Smith in 3 years than Pau in 3 years (and on the decline)…its a smart move.

  • Reggie06

    Hate typing on ipad damnn

  • Bt

    People forget 2010 was an inflated free agent market. Market value for JJ THAT YEAR was a max contract. When that many teams have cap space you’ve got to pay more than you’d like. Also, realistically if they let Joe walk who would they have bought in in the last two years?? Atlanta isn’t exactly a hot free agent destination. It wad either overpay for Joe or overpay for 3-4 role players. The hawks did the right thing

  • tpathi1

    if kobe wants to win more than anything then why would you NOT want to have a team with Andrew Bynum, Pau Gasol and Artest? Them three combined with Kobe is easily the best starting lineup in the league…EASILY! You have a defensive stopper who most will agree is a top five perimeter defender still in the league..two big men who CAN average 20 and 10 still (unless a player takes up all the shots, and constantly takes his players out of the game mentally which Kobe is) and you stil have the guy who some how some way dropped 81 pts in a game; I don’t even know who their pg is, but does it really matter? Give me Pau, if you ask me he will be a better player than Josh Smithers even when he is 40 years old.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Stop it. Artest is no longer a top-5 perimeter defender and the lakers no longer have the best starting lineup in the L.
    LA fans have to stop living in the past and begin to face reality. Kobe is no longer the best 2 guard in the world/his huge contract hampers whatever moves LA has in mind, Gasol doesn’t get enough low post touches in MBrown’s offense to affect a game like he once could, LA’s bench/supporting cast is one of the worst in the League and the worst part of it all is that Mike Brown is the head coach.
    Things aren’t looking so bright in sunny La La Land.

  • tpathi1

    i take back the ‘easily’ part, Miami has a great starting lineup too..but you got two of the top 7 players that are 7 ft tall..hell they might just be 2 of the top 5 players that are 7 ft tall

  • Myung

    If you take into account Joe’s age at that time and compare it to other key free agents in 2010 (Amar’e, Bron, Wade, Bosh), you can’t say his market value was $126 million for 6 years. I’d say it was closer to $90 max for 6 years. 2010 was an incredible year for free agents (arguably the best in NBA history). No way Joe should’ve been the highest paid player of that class, yet he was. If we wanted to pay him $21 million a year (which is VERY high), why not at least just do it for 3 to 4 years max. The amount of the contract was pretty wild, but I think the LENGTH was just as crazy. Unless you’re locking in a mega star (think Bron, Durant, Rose, etc) while they’re in their 20′s, you simply shouldn’t give a player like Joe that much money for that long. It just handcuffs the team and hinders them from making additional big moves. I think the right move would’ve been to offer him $80 to $95 for 6 years. If he thought he could get more (at that time, Chicago and New York were his two most likely destinations), then we should’ve called his bluff. Had he left us for either of those two situations, I don’t think Hawks fans would’ve been mad, as long as we knew the Hawks at least tried to tender him a reasonable offer. If it was a low ball offer (like $65 million for 6 years), then OBVIOUSLY we know it was just a case of a cheap ownership group… but that clearly wasn’t the case. Ultimately, the Hawks were in a lose-lose situation that year. If we let him walk, we would’ve blasted them. If we signed him for max money at max years, we would’ve blasted them. But I still think there was a way to save face if you’re Hawks management… and again, that was to offer him a very nice contract and then call his bluff. Throwing a 30 year old guy $126 million for 6 years… it never should’ve happened.

  • Ldub

    All of those dudes (beside Bynum) are on the decline. Pau doesnt like Mike Browns offense. Metta is inconsistent and “STILL” has mental issues. Bynum cant carry at team…and Kobe chucks too much. Idk if he was trying to prove something to the critics that he “still has it” but he failed to get his teammates involved at all. Yes KOBE does want to win and be known as the best…thats a pure fact. But that doesnt mean that his teammates have the same hunger and desire. And when Kobe calls them out, that isnt necessarily saying he doesnt want to play with them…its saying he wants them to play better. And you can have all that talent but if youre not running a system that benefits them…it doesnt matter what they CAN do. Pau is not a jump shooter..he can hit it every now and then but he belongs in the paint! Cosign JT….except I feel kobe is still the best 2 guard playing. Who else would you put above him? Wade?

  • tpathi1

    okay lets break this down…out of all centers in the league right now, where is Bynum ranked? Most will say #2 and bold people will say #1. Out of all shooting guards in the league where is Kobe ranked? Probably #1 or #2, cmon as long as he playing most people will give it up to Kobe on GP alone. Although Artest might be on the decline, he still d’s up and personally i would say that he is in the top 10 at the SF position in the league. And what about Gasol as a powerforward? I would probably say its safe to rank him in the top 5 as far as PF’s go. The fact is the Lakers underachieved big time this year…probably cause of Kobe’s old habits

  • http://www.slamonline.com Keep It Real

    Lakers NEED to do this, and then trade Bynum for D12. D12 and Jsmoove are best friends!!! kobe could shoot his hands off and let them 2 grab every board. There would be no suck thing as a offensive rebound for opponents. MAKE IT HAPPEN BUSS

  • http://Slamonline nbk

    Lakers need to do this. Dwight and Josh are friends so this would improve chances of getting him.

  • pointguardslim

    Josh Smith likely has to take over Artest’s role, and be the small forward LA thought they were getting when they lost Ariza and LA adds a true stretch forward shooter ie Ryan Anderson.

    Pg
    Kobe Bryant
    Josh Smith
    Ryan Anderson
    Andrew Bynum/Dwight

  • Ldub

    tpath…Pau didnt under achieve because of Kobe. He under achieved because he didnt like the system. Brown only feels 1 big is best. Pau underachieved because of Pau. He became hesitant to shoot and when he did it was awful. Yes Bynum can get 20-10 and I have him ranked #1 center right now. But know one else does what he and Dwight do. So its basically a list of 2. Ill give you top 10 SF for Metta (but only on the defensive end). If he isnt clicking offensively (like 90% of the SF in the L can do today) then he is potentially a liability. You cannot put Metta in the same category “overall” as Pierce, James, Melo, KD, Gay, Deng, Iggy, Batum, G. Wallace, Josh Smith, Odom). Push that to top 15 and you have a deal. He can still lock up alot of players…ill definitely give him that. Issue is…you can be ranked high…but that doesnt mean you are producing highly in all areas that will give your team the win. We know what Pau, Metta, Bynum etc CAN do…but if they dont do it…it doesnt matter what name is on the back of the jersey.

  • http://www.newyorkshockexchange.com Shock Exchange

    (Future voice)

    Pau Gasol/Andrew Bynum at the same ____ time
    Got a huge size advantage at the same ____ time
    Postin’ up, callin’ for it at the same ____ time
    Horry, Jr tryna shoot it at the same ____ time, at the same ____time, at the same ____ time

    Spike Lee needs to get this ____ on filllmmm!

  • Ldub

    1 big in the paint* no one*

  • lakernation

    Please…. I approve this trade!

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMo_HcRBnUY LakeShow

    Yeah, probably wanna make this happen Jimmy dumb, dumb, head. Or wait, that will make Dwight want to come to LA?
    Then your precious Bynum would be gone…
    Not happening.

  • thor

    I Would rather see this happen, than watching Josh leave for nothing next year. But that is only if we can’t get anything better. I mean I have watched Pau a lot, and I know he’s a great player, but he doesn’t bring all that extra stuff that Josh does, the running the floor, the steals, the blocks. Josh is such a valuable player for the Hawks and I, even though it kills me to watch all his reckless jumpers, would hate to see him leave for freakin Pau Gasol.

  • tpathi1

    If Brown feels that one big is best, then he is stupid and should get fired…they won the ring in 2010 with this formula…if the lakers can get BOTH dwight and josh if this trade goes thru then i guess its worth a shot..but i think this is only best if they know for sure Dwight will come thru

  • tpathi1

    i know mwp takes stupid shots at times, but overall i think he has pretty high basketball iq..higher than Gay, Batum, and Smith. Ldub although all of the players you mentioned might be better all around ballers than MWP right now, MWP still plays better d than a lot of those guys, and all of them but KD, James, and maybe Pierce he can shut down atleast 3/7 games in a playoff series…MWP doesnt get enough credit..if MWP was guarding any of these guys they would’t dare throw elbows for space on him and overall most of these guys will be less aggressive thruout a bball game

  • http://www.hoopsworld.com IamYOU

    JSmith: Throw me an Alley-oop kobe!
    Kobe: Just get the Rebound!

    Sorry I just can’t help it…

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    So the Lakers athleticism level would go up by about 30 points but their basketball IQ would drop by about 70…..sounds f*cking great for the Lakers.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    And a nice move to balance the roster for the Hawks.

  • http://thahiphopcorner.com Kevin

    I would love to see how Mike Brown handles coaching both Andrew Bynum and Josh Smith

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    That wasn’t me. Josh Smith might entice Dwight to want to go there, but LA would still have to get him via trade. And it’s pretty unrealistic to think Orlando will go Dwight for Bynum straight up. Adding Josh Smith will shore up LA’s defense and make them more of a Mike Brown team. You have a PF who wants to play the perimeter instead of forcing Pau to do so, and the Lakers immediately become a viable Pick and Roll defense rather than what they were before. This trade has little to nothing to do with Dwight, despite all the hypothesizing. And I still don’t understand why you try and comment as me in a serious fashion. No offense, but your understanding of what your saying is elementary fake me, it isn’t going to fool people more than every once in a while.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Redd

    Did you know J smiths hands are so small he can’t even palm the ball? Anyways, you won’t ever get D12.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMo_HcRBnUY LakeShow

    Hey troll nbk, whats up?
    You having a good day?
    What are your thoughts on the Olympics this summer?
    Who’s takin Silver?
    Sorry real nbk, i’m just better friends with the troll now.. I’ve talked to him so much over the last couple weeks. We’re becoming close. Sorry..

  • Sérgio

    JTaylor, if Kobe is not the best 2 guard, who is it then? Wade, whose grumpy knees ate taking away his athleticism and leaving him alone with that shaky jumper? Joe “passive and overpaid” Johnson? James Harden and his disappearing act in the finals? Gimme a break.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Oh dear

  • B.C.

    This trade doesn’t benefit either team, especially the lakers. If they get josh Smith they still won’t win a championship, they only way they can is if they move Smith to the sf position and get a consistent low post pf that can score and rebound.

  • Ldub

    Tpath I said “overall”….and i even said that MWP plays better D. But he is a liability on the offensive end because of his decision making. IMO…he has the best hands and foot work on the defensive end…however he is too inconsistent on the offensive end. (thank you for basically agreeing with what I already stated). And I also made the correction of have 1 big in the paint. We all know Brown is not the coach for the Lakers. His system doesnt work. Not for the group that has been assembled in LA. Everyone knows Pau needs to be in the post…and so does Bynum. We all know the strengths and weaknesses of this team. It seems that Brown is the only one on the planet that doesnt!

  • Ldub

    B.C. nothing you have ever posted makes any sense!! If you move Smith to SF…(with the way Brown has the offense)..he will be away from the basket. Which is what the defense wants. He cannot shoot all that great. He needs to be on the block where he can use his athleticism to score easily. Also if he is away from the basket, because teams know he cant shoot, they will sag. Which will then cause easier double teams on Bynum (who doesnt pass out of them) and it clogs the lane for any player trying to drive! And it benefits both teams greatly. LA gets the young athleticism they very much need. And ATL gets the tall post presence they very much need. Then where does MWP go? You would play your 6-10 athlete at SF and your 6-7 athlete at PF? And just WHO did you have in mind that would be accessible to the Lakers at the PF position that can score and rebound???

  • Fresh Boirdee

    It amazes me that ATL gets viewed like a small market basketball team, with all of the popular music acts, and television and movies being shot here, the weather, the women, the low price of living… you would think athletes would love to play here.

  • http://www.newyorkshockexchange.com Shock Exchange

    Like Tpath said, the Lakers have the pieces to win the ‘chip. The Lakers’ true weakness is (i) Horry, Jr’s need to shoot 30+ times a game -regardless if he is shooting less than 40% from the field – at the expense of the bigs and (ii) Brown’s inability to stand up to Horry, Jr out of fear of being fired. They should have won it this year and last year … this is the most underachieving team in the league; however, Lakers fans and mainstream media throw everyone (Brown, Bynum, Odom, Pau, MWP) under the bus but Horry, Jr.

    Lastly, the Lakers are spoiled after the gift they received in Pau. They and their fans are under the impression that the rest of the NBA should serve as their AAA farm system.

  • http://www.facebook.com/joe.l.brewer3 BlackPhantom

    As long as Jim Buss and ike Brown are still in the oranization…..I’m not gonna feel optimistic about anything having to do with the Lakers for awhile. I man sure, Josh mith is a great player but…we already have a gunner in Kobe…..bringing Josh Smith and his NBA 2K10 if you’re playing with Kobe Bryant-like shot selection to LA would simply turn the team into a walking reality show.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    You have to be completely ignorant to call Kobe Bryant “Robert Horry Jr” – ignorant enough to think College develops players better than the NBA. Oh, so this makes sense.

  • http://www.newyorkshockexchange.com Shock Exchange

    nbk,

    The my original comment was that Westbrook’s game has suffered by not attending college. Secondly, even Amare Stoudemire admitted that “not attending college has hurt is basketball IQ,” which again flies in the face of your musings.

    For the last time, it is clear that Westbrook has the basketball IQ of someone at the local YMCA who has never played organized ball before. How do you explain that? Either (i) he is not being taught the “science of basketball” at the NBA level or (ii) he is learning disabled. You can only pick one … as the theme from “Jeopardy” plays in finitum.

    By the way, you are back on the list for my autographed copy of my book due out in July. I see through your fake attempts to catch fade with the Shock Exchange.

  • Ldub

    ^^ I was wondering who the hell Horry Jr was. And when I realized it was Kobe, my mind was blown. Some people just dont know basketball, yet feel that just because they have an opinion…its worthy of a posting/comment.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Redd

    @Shock idk about “YMCA” level but the dude does lack Ball IQ.

  • Ldub

    The issue that EVERYONE seems to have with Westbrook is his shot selection (because KD is on the court with him). If you place him in Chicago for D-Rose (with no help) then people wouldnt question him. He is doing what he feels is helping the team win. I dont consider him to have a low bball IQ, I consider him to be selfish. Kobe has a high bball IQ and he is selfish. So what exactly is the argument? Russ went to UCLA…Kobe didnt attend College. Neither did Lebron…but he has an amazing IQ as well. For some players college helped their game..but to say college is the basis for a better NBA IQ…i dont buy that. KG is another example of an extremely intelligent BBALL player who didnt attend college! I guess the argument can go both ways depending on whom you are talking about. *shrug*

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Amar’e Stoudemire is just not smart, period. Just because he said College would have helped his basketball IQ doesn’t make it true. That’s like me saying the moon would have hoped my basketball IQ. Amar’e never went to college, so he can’t possibly know just like I can’t about going to the moon.

  • tpathi1

    Kobe was set up to win championships since 1999. He played with the most dominating force and won 3 straight chips, they could have won a 4th in a row (pistons victory = fluke)…then kobe aka horry jr. lack of intelligence reared its ugly head and somehow some way he managed to drive the Diesel out of town…instead of going after his fourth ring (the first without shaq) kobe takes 3 years in his prime i may add to show off and barely make it to the playoffs, get knocked outt the first round when they are up 3-1 in the playoffs (against an amare-less suns team lol), until finally he got another big man in Pau, and he won 2 more rings…by my estimation kobe should have had atleast 8 rings by now..that dude is slow..he should have went to college..and now at 32 or however old he is, he is complaining about Pau, whats that guys problem

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Helped*

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Kobe Bryant’s maturity about teammates has nothing to do with if he did or didn’t go to college. For every guy that didn’t go to college that has maturity issues there is one that did, with the same issues. For every Kobe there is a Rasheed Wallace. You figure it out.

  • Ldub

    If he went to college he wouldnt have been a laker! The draft would have been different. Lakers might not have had Vlade to trade to the Hornets etc. So to say that Kobe would have 8 rings is all in theory that everything would pan out the same exact way. In which it wouldnt. Nice try though tpath. To say that Kobe’s IQ is low because he didnt win rings (or doesnt have more rings than he has now) is completely crazy. What does that say about some of the most intelligent players in the game today? Cp3 doesnt have a ring and went to college, Kidd only has 1 and went to college, Nash doesnt have any, Battier (one of the most intelligent players in the game today) just got his first. Like I said…selfishness is the difference that IQ. And piggy backing off nbk…the major difference you seem to be talking about is IQ (school/world knowledge) 2+2=4 type IQ. Basketball knowledge is different. Footwork, when to shot, when to dribble, when to pass, how to pass, etc.

  • TheWhiteMarkPrice

    ^^^^ The Spurs won the title the year before the Pistons beat the Lakers. Read a book.

  • TheWhiteMarkPrice

    tpath1 needs to get some facts straight before posting.

  • tpathi1

    owners want players to stay in college or what have you for a couple years cause they know that regardless of college or not going, that the nba game takes years to adjust to..if guys keep comin into the league at 18 with significant playing minutes, they will adjust at a younger age and in turn demand more money for a longer period of time..whereas if u go to school for 4 years and get to the league at 22…u still need to adjust to the NBA game which will take a couple years and in turn the owners won’t have to pay these players max dollars for longer periods of time…i was just playing about how kobe needs college…and if players keep getting drafted at 19 the record books will be skewed big time..kobe is on pace to shatter a lot of scoring records, kd is as well, and so is lebron…as a bball enthusiast it will be hard for me to tell grandkids or whatever about the 80′s and 90′s when a lot of these guys names won’t be in the record books anymore..the commissioner probably should up the age to 20 so the kids who hoop will not get these crazy hoop dreams about getting drafted out of college…high schools across the country doesn’t need their kids talkin about graduating hs and going straight to the pros

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Kobe Bryant won 2 rings as the best player on a team that ran the triangle. It’s safe to say he is a very smart player. And many regard him as the smartest player (basketball IQ wise) in the NBa. There are player, coach, and GM polls that reflect that belief. Selfishness and intelligence are different. Kobe is one of the greatest to ever lace them up (#12) in my book. He definitely made the right decision by foregoing college, it allowed him to develop in the NBA game and put him in position to be what he has become. He was an NBA all star in what would have been his sophomore year of college, and the 2nd best player on a title team in what would have been his senior year. Lol, there is no logical argument for Bryant going to college. It’s ridiculous to even try an make up one.

  • tpathi1

    oh im sory whitemarkprice..your right they did..but does that take away from the fact that the lakers probably could have won 8 rings? do you remember what happened when shaq left? him and that kid from robbins il went all the way to the ECF and only lost that year to the pistons bc of a twisted rib that kept wade out of the last two games..oh and what did shaq and the kid do the very next year? did they win that ring?! so pretty much shaq put himself in title contention right away after his departure with a guy a lot of u guys say is no where near kobe’s level..he only won one ring..but what do u think would have happened if he played with Kobe in those years?

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Owners want guys to go to college because it benefits them financially. There is nothing more too it. Free Scouting, less contracts to sign. It’s not like just any kid can come to the nba out of high school, it’s, more times then not, the guys who will be good to very good NBA players that can come out HS, which means at 22, 26, 30, 34 (typically) they will be signing BIG contracts. Rather than, 25, 29, 33. That’s one less huge paycheck owners have to shell out. To believe what the owners try and portray (“it benefits the player to go to college”) is naive. Nothing more.

  • http://www.newyorkshockexchange.com Shock Exchange

    Nbk (Gilbert Arenas voice) “Pick one” as theme from Jeopardy plays in finitum

  • Sérgio

    Nbk, don’t waste your time arguing with that dumb@ss. A guy who calls Kobe freakin Bryant, one of the greatest players of all time (# 12, like you said, is a pretty low place for him in most lists) and the greatest winner of his generation, Horry Jr. in plainly retarded. Well, maybe if he goes to college, his argumentation IQ will improve…

  • tpathi1

    i dont understand how kobe is the ‘greatest winner’ in any generation..a true winner would have never let the diesel leave LA no matter what

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Tim Duncan is the greatest winner and player of this generation. There is no narrative about Kobe Bryant that will ever make me feel like he was a better player than Duncan.

  • http://www.newyorkshockexchange.com Shock Exchange

    You’re right. Kobe’s no Robert Horry .. Robert Horry never tried to be “the man” when he played with Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson and Duncan. Didn’t know there were so many sheep on here.

  • LeBrOn 4 MvP!

    Yeyah! yo yo the gasol smith trade is on fire, i hope the trigger is pulled, real talk

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Robert Horry never played in an All-Star game. He was also never even the best player on a team, let alone the best player on a team that won two championships. Go back to your website, and keep believing that your opinion matters to someone

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMo_HcRBnUY LakeShow

    Kobe might be something someday if he puts his mind to it… and goes to college.

  • tpathi1

    the only issue i have with duncan being labeled a great great ball player is that i don’t believe that he had that many great years…like most all time greats in anyone’s top ten have like 13 great years..i thought duncans was more around 10 years of excellence..his overall numbers are still 20 10..but i dont remember the last time his averages were 20 10 in a season

  • http://www.newyorkshockexchange.com Shock Exchange

    Nbk I hear all that mouf but the theme from Jeopardy’s still playing

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Tim Duncan’s 20-10 came with game changing defense. And he averaged 19-10.7 in 2008-09 in just 34.3 minutes. From 21-32 (1997-98 – 2008-09) he averaged 21 and 11.7 with 3 assists and 2.7 blocks on 50% shooting. That’s crazy dominant production for over a decade to go along with the best winning percentage in ALL of professional sports. Duncan is under appreciated by most people imo.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Well that’s a weird hallucination Shock Exchange, you should get that checked out. And idk about anyone else but I comment with my fingers, not my mouf, whatever that is. Unless you have a speech impediment and you comment with that dragon speech software, then I understand you meant mouth, which again, I don’t use to comment. Good one though, really cut me deep.

  • http://www.newyorkshockexchange.com Shock Exchange

    Cool. So I assume the convo. on the college debate is now closed … as the theme from Jeopardy plays in finitum. But you’ve still gotten my dander up.

  • Sérgio

    Nbk, well, then I’ll have to disagree with you. Kobe has 5 rings and 7 finals appearences. I agree that Duncan’s defensive impact was bigger, but Kobe was no slouch on that side either, even tough he is not consistently good nowadays. And Duncan may have a better winning percentage, but really, compare his casts yo Kobe’s, specially from 04 to 08.
    Also, to me, Shaq was also better than Duncan. Both he and Kobe were much more dominating than TD.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    infinitum is one word. Go to college.

  • http://www.newyorkshockexchange.com Shock Exchange

    How many words is “fiddy”?

  • Ldub

    tpath1…nothing in sports is guaranteed. and it seems like your spitting alot of venom in Kobe’s direction for Shaq leaving. Whether it was Kobe, Shaq, Phil or Luke Walton…no one will ever really know. But to say that Kobe is less intelligent because of dispute and unwillingness to work with another is just bananas. And regardless of the “beef” between the 2 powerhouses…the GM still pulled the trigger on the trade to send him to Miami. You cannot blame that entire situation on Kobe and say he isnt intelligent because Shaq left.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Shaq was better than Duncan. Which means 3 of Kobe’s titles came with a better player than both of them. So using simple association, Duncan has led teams to 3 (or 4 depending on your opinion of his first title) titles to Kobe’s 2. Duncan has a defensive impact on entire teams, to Kobe’s (over rated) impact on just his matchup. Duncan has never missed the playoffs (And has only lost in the first round twice, in his whole career) while Kobe has never even won a round without either Shaq or Pau. Duncan is better, and more dominant. There is just no way around it imo. If Kobe were as dominant, then he wouldn’t have struggled to be successful so much in the middle of his prime. That and Kobe drove Shaq out of town, then while Shaq proceeded to win another title with an inferior player (Wade) Kobe struggled to make the playoffs and make his teammates better (Caron Butler for example, went on to become an All-Star one year after leaving Kobe Bryant…while playing next to Gilbert Arenas).

  • http://www.newyorkshockexchange.com Shock Exchange

    ^^ Thus,making my point that Kobe is a “glorified Robert Horry” … he has only wins ‘chips when he plays on teams with “exceptionally more talent” – Shaq (Wilt of his era) and Pau/Bynum (2 highly skilled 7 footers when the rest of the NBA suits up 6’8″ centers) than the rest of the league. So you were lying earlier … you do like Kobe’s “Horry, Jr” tag.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Fiddy is zero words.
    .
    But according tithe Urban Dictionary (which is certainly what you use) it is “a word used by morons who can’t pronounce, or for that matter spell the word ‘fifty’”
    .
    Ouch.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    No Shock Exchange, you can understand a player without being an idiot. I respect Kobe and the player he is. Only a glorified dumbass who uses words like “fiddy” and “mouf” in a comment section make such ignorant comparisons. You are stupid. And proud of it apparently.

  • http://www.newyorkshockexchange.com Shock Exchange

    It takes an ignoramus to get emotional on basketball website and start with personal insults. Since you want to get personal, there are thousands of courts in New York City … (Gilbert Arenas voice) “Pick one.”

  • Ldub

    nbk makes good points in the duncan/kobe argument. Which then kinda kills kobe from being in the jordan conversation. Jordan had awesome role players, but didnt have another dominant with him. Cant just compare rings. Have to look at all of the underlined issues as well.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Like I tell everyone who thinks I am emotionally calling them stupid, I am not. I genuinely find you to be stupid. So I tell you. Don’t try and argue with someone if you don’t want their opinion. And I genuinely don’t give a damn about what you think you would do on a basketball court against me. Plus, making that stupid argument to someone you don’t know every time they call out your brain is ignorant. Maybe “not going to college” is the issue here…haha

  • Kilo

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I’m a Laker’s fan that lives in the A. Josh Smith does not play hard. Josh Smith does not care about this game. Kobe may choke him. He settles for jumpers, he gets too many techs and he fire bricks at the foul line. He ‘ll block a few shots, but he leaves way too much on the court. We just need to clear some cap space and make a real run at D-Will or Steve Nash. If we don’t get him, then just stay put.

  • http://www.newyorkshockexchange.com Shock Exchange

    ^^ Definitely puts Kobe in the “Horry conversation”

  • http://Slamonline nbk

    What’s up lakeshow. I think Spain takes silver. The Gasol brothers will be a lot to handle

  • Ldub

    Horry and Kobe are no comparison either Shock. IDK why you would even feel they are.

  • LeBrOn 4 MvP!

    yo yo real talk, imo duncan most under appreciated player of all time, yall feel me?! dawg aint get enuf respect. when his career is over fools will kneel before him. his time will come, his time will come, real talk

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMo_HcRBnUY LakeShow

    Hi troll. Cool, good prediction. You think Argentina will make any noise? I feel like they lost their mojo, but you can’t count them out. They will be a hard out.
    .
    Oh, real nbk, your making some BS stuff up in with your analysis of Bean. Saying he doesn’t make his team mates better sounds good, because Kobe is not known for being Magic on the court, but it’s just not true. Caron Butler was in his 3rd year in LA and still developing. He put up 15 points as a rook on the Heat his first year,(cause they were garbage) and then 9 in his 2nd. He goes to LA, puts up 15, then goes on to steadily have better years as he enter his prime. A typical curve for a players career. Their was no hampering by Kobe on Butler. He just hadn’t hit his stride till he left LA. It was all physical and mental aspects.
    There has never been a player to just flounder because of Kobe being his team mate.
    Also, what are you trying to say about him “struggling to be successful in the middle of his prime”? What? You mean he was suppose to do something other than win 45 games with a team with Smush Parker at the helm… man.. whatever.
    @LeBrOn 4 MvP: real talk, stfu.

  • Sérgio

    Ldub, Scottie Pippen wasn’t dominant?
    Nbk, of course Duncan never missed the playoffs. Look at his roster all those years. Meanwhile, look Kobe’s teammates from 04 to 07: Butler (2nd year), Odom (who never succeed as 2 option), Chuck Atkins, Brian Cook, Luke Walton, Kwame Brown, Chris Mihn, Devean George, Brian Grant, Smush Parker, Sasha Vijavic, Aaron Mckie, Ronny Turiaf, Maurice Evans? Really, man? This is a TURRIBLE suporting cast. That KB could take them to the playoffs in a crowded Western Conference should be considered a miracle.
    By the way, Shaq was a champion with an inferior player that was, at the time, already a top 5 SG, if not top 3, and Jason Willians, Payton, Walker, Haslem, Mourning, Posey in a weak as hell Eastern Conference that only had one other good team (Detroit), and winning the Finals that was gift-wrapped to them by David Stern and the referees. So, yeah.

  • http://Slamonline nbk

    I agree. Maybe the semi final for them. Or quarter final

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Caron Butler was basically the same player as his rookie year while playing with Kobe Bryant. He was only slightly more efficient. Kobe doesn’t make guys better. Never has. Which is fine. If he made guys better, Butler would have improved not gone back to what he was as a rookie. Butler was the second best player on that Heat team that won 27 games, and the second best player on the Lakers who won 34. The difference in those whopping 7 wins? The best player on the Lakers was Kobe Bryant, not Eddie Jones like in Miami. Kobe is a brilliant brilliant individual talent. But he didn’t make guys better.

  • tpathi1

    I will always spit a lot of venom at kobe I can’t help..y’all gotta understand being from the chi and watching the best play and then seeing a guy in my high school years try and clone the greatests moves is quite irritating at best…the lakers made me stop watching the nbain a way they did exactly what the bulls did in the 90s they made the game kinda boring and predicatable..it was so obvious that they would win..exciting for a chicago kid but anyone wit nba knowledge and

  • tpathi1

    I will always spit a lot of venom at kobe I can’t help..y’all gotta understand being from the chi and watching the best play and then seeing a guy in my high school years try and clone the greatests moves is quite irritating at best…the lakers made me stop watching the nbain a way they did exactly what the bulls did in the 90s they made the game kinda boring and predicatable..it was so obvious that they would win..exciting for a chicago kid but if you weren’t from around here it was probably boring..and that’s exactly what the lakers were doing and Shaq was a ridiculous balll player…I honestly thought they would never lose for ten years..but then all of a sudden after they lose in the finals they dismantle the team?! That’s absurd so yah kobe and busse will and should always take the blame for that..its why I can’t even hear any comparisons wit mj and kobe cause mj would never get rid of shaq if he did…and then shaq on the heat let’s. Wade be the man and takes a pay cut..all evidence points to kobe making shaq leave

  • edeezy

    Shaq and MJ being on the same team would have been interesting to watch. One of the most demanding players ever (if not the most) with a guy who clearly took it easy at times both going for the #1 spot on the team.

  • edeezy

    I don’t get why people really go on about hating someone trying to emulate the moves of the best player the sport has seen. Isn’t this something that everyone does at some point?

  • edeezy

    Why is it so wrong to try and emulate the best player of the game? Everyone does this at one point or the next.

  • Ldub

    Not like a shaq dominance no! Pippen was a lock down defender. tpath…you do realize Jordan didnt create his own style of play. Every player had to try and copy a form of another. What is the big deal with looking at what someone great did, and trying to incorporate that into your own game, so that you can be great and perhaps even greater? Jordan would never play with Shaq because shaq was as dominant if not more. That is the main reason why Kobe and Shaq didnt work. You cant have 2 alpha dogs. Pip wasnt an Alpha. He knew that Jordan was. Kobe and Shaq both wanted to be.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMo_HcRBnUY LakeShow

    Going back to where he was as a rookie was an improvement. Plus that’s not even true. He was a much better player for the Lakers in his 3rd year then he was as a rook in MIA. You should know not to just look at PPG and judge everythign about a player from that. He dropped off significantly his 2nd year then re-surged with Bryant on the Lakers.
    Faux-History going on here.
    Kobe missed 20+ games that year in addition to Odom. Kobe also averaged 6 Assists per game.
    .
    Caron gave Kobe this glowing review on his 1 year with him in which you say he had a negative impact on him.
    Read and weep: “I say that’s the best thing that ever could have happened for me personally for my career,” Butler said. “To play alongside a guy like that, see his preparation, see what it takes to get to that level, that’s why I was able to be so good in Washington because I took everything I learned from him under his wing.”
    -Caron Butler on his year in LA with KB.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    Please make this trade!!

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMo_HcRBnUY LakeShow

    “That’s why I was able to be so good in Washington because I took everything I learned from him under his wing.”
    .
    Just wanted to post that part one more time. We internet bloggies love to act like we know what’s going on in areas outside our knowledge, but sometimes we just don’t.
    Caron gives Kobe credit for his career success, and we still got internet GM’s giving their analysis like it’s fact.
    Good thing there are facts out there.
    .
    Saying that Kobe doesn’t make his team mates better is an interesting debate. I see where your coming from. He doesn’t have a point guard mindset like some of the greats have, so he often doesn’t look like he’s helping his team mates from the assist column. TBH, I don’t think he likes to pass. But in general he is helping his team mates. You know why? Because they are learning from him and his mentality on what it takes to win, and to be the best, and that in turn makes them better. Butler quote is one of many of Kobe’s team mates speaking well on how he helped their game out. You don’t have to be Magic to make players better.

  • phil da windmill

    aye man gasol soft as a mutha fugga we dont need his weak post moves either sorry fam my hawks can do without ya.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Learning from someone and them making you a better player while SHARING the court are different. Kobe is a great individual example, but he doesn’t make his TEAMMATES better. Hence Butler improving once he left. And Butler’s role changed his 2nd year, which is why his statistics suffered. He went back to that role in LA. And I don’t give a flying sh*t about Kobe’s APG, that doesn’t mean he’s making people better, that means he is the only guy with the ball. Making your teammates better isn’t about assists, it’s about making them perform better, by lifting THEIR performance. Kobe has never done that. With anyone.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    It’s not exactly difficult concepts here.
    1. Duncan is the greatest player drafted between 1995-1999. Kobe is second. I’d probably take KG 3rd.
    2. Kobe CAN be the best 2 guard in the L today, but he sure wasn’t these Playoffs.
    3. On the court, Kobe doesn’t make teammates better. Off the court, he most certainly does.
    4. Kobe’s defense has been overrated since about 2008. Even LakeShow will cosign that.
    5. Nobody should take Shock Exchange seriously. He (sometimes) has some good points, but most of it is buried underneath idiocy masquerading as “bold statements.” Think Sarah Palin.
    6. Kobe does need great teammates to win. So does Jordan, Duncan, Shaq, LeBron, Wilt, Russell, Bird, Magic, etc.
    7. I don’t think Josh Smith is the answer for LA. His lack of a perimeter game won’t translate well to Mike Brown’s “offense.”
    8. Shut up with the Jeopardy talk. Hey Shock Exchange, question for you, why didn’t Jordan win 9 rings? Because he didn’t stay 4 years in college or because of his gaming problem? -Jeopardy music plays ad infinitum-
    9. I expect my troll to show up after this, but know this is the real me. Y’all know I love my lists.

  • http://Slamonline nbk

    I stink of gorilla juice all day err day

  • http://slamonline.com Datkid

    I leave for 2 days and you guys are ready to murder each other…smh. This a bad trade for LA.. and an awesome one for ATL. Bike has to be NBK’s troll. the post above me condemns him… and lmaoooooo @ caboose comparing shock exchange to sarah palin.

  • http://Slamonline nbk

    Datkid, that wasn’t me. I’m the real troll

  • bike

    LOL stupid SLAM

  • bigA

    To all the losers here: Please stop trolling!I want basketball insight! No more comments reflectiing on how pathetic your life is.

  • tpathi1

    i could care less about the ‘style of play’ that was emulated…what bothers me is the on and off court mannerisms..like when jordan used to get hot and the way he would back peddle on defense with his head bobbing..what makes another man want to copy that? or how when the game would get real physical jordan point his finger directly at your face..i seen Kobe do that nonsense too..its one thing to copy/emulate someone’s game..but when you try to copy/emulate anothers whole life, then expect a problem

  • tpathi1

    you can even make an argument that he copied MJ’s voice…who does that?!

  • Sérgio

    Caboose, if Kobe wasn’t the best SG in the playoffs, who was then? Wade? His 23 ppg is ridiculously low for him, and he took a backseat to Lebron. Harden? The guy struggled mightly against LA and disappeared in the Finals.
    Sure, 2012 Playoffs wasn’t the best of KB’s career, specially on his FG%. But f@ck, the guy averaged 30, 5, 5 yet again, so lets give him what is due.

  • Ldub

    For sake of typing an extremely long response. Simply put, youre wrong tpath. And your love for your own city blinds you from greatness of other players that arent in Chicago. Ask yourself this….does every single player that does what Jordan did through his career, copy his mannerisms? KG does the finger point, Ive seen Vince Carter do it as well (along with the shoulder shrug). Jeremy Lin backs up and nods. And my 45 year old brother sounds just like Jordan too. But like Kobe, I guess he realized that in order to be a success in life, its a prerequisite to be MJ. Well his copycat anyways.

  • Ldub

    Caboose…I agree with you on everything except Kobe not being the best 2 guard in the playoffs. I have to ask the ? that Sergio asked…who was better? Cuz Wade was injured, Ginobli was good but he isnt Kobe. Come to think about it, those are really the only three 2 guards I can say were close to Kobe in the playoffs.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMo_HcRBnUY LakeShow

    Co-Sign L-Dub’s life.
    Caboose, it’s on like diddy kong racing homie.
    Wasn’t the best 2 guard in the L? I beg to differ… Unless facts won’t persuade you, you will soon realize he was far and away the best 2 guard in the post season.

  • Sérgio

    Well, Nbk and Caboose, I have a question for you: if you were to start a team from scratch, who would you choose, Duncan or Garnett? Remember, the team would have the same players, the only difference would be TD or KG.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    I’m happy to debate, and you probably are right, I think I’m relying far too much on subjective evidence (e.g. Seeing Kobe shoot the Lakers out of games). Here, I’ll concede this, Kobe most certainly posted the best numbers of any 2 guard in the playoffs. His decision making and positive impact on games were spotty at crucial times, but as a whole, he still was an elite player. Up until the Finals, I would have said Harden, but he ruined that. An argument can be made for Wade’s defense, but if you give me some facts (I’m interested), I’ll probably concede.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Sergio: Duncan every single time.

  • Sérgio

    Caboose, I agree with you that Kobe forced the issue at the end of games. This, combined with the drop off in Bynum’s and Gasol’s production in the Playoffs, took LA away from WCF semifinals. I would like to see KB not trying to do it all at the end of games, but it must have been tough to look around and see an afraid as hell Sessions, an immature Bynum who was inconstant in effort and the softness of Gasol, who inexplicably (ok, in parts – Mike Brown is to blame a bit for that) refused to shoot.
    As for TD x KG, aside from rings, I’m inclined to say that KG is (or was) the better player. Maybe TD was a little bit better on offense, but, to me, KG was a better shooter, passer and defender. I know TD was more clutch, and his rings will always put him above KG in the all-time greats list, but if I were starting a team, I’d be leaning towards KG.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Hmm, I will contend that while KG was the more -versatile- defender, I would say Duncan is the more -impactful- defender. The last 4 years notwithstanding, in their youth, Duncan anchored a defense that was long considered the best in the L. KG shut his man down, but was never a great team defender (until Boston).
    -
    Also, I’d point to the slow start of KG. Duncan came right into the league as arguably the best PF. KG took a little while, which should be factored in if we’re building a team from scratch.
    -
    I will grant that KG has more range on his shot and could -dominate- the offensive flow of a game better than Duncan, but nobody has ever rivaled Duncan’s prowess on the low block. McHale may be the closest.
    -
    Garnett is a better passer. Done.
    -
    Timmy has understood the team concept the entirety of his career. Again, until Boston, KG was widely seen as a difficult teammate to play with, as the Wolves kept trying to plug in pieces around him. Timmy made damn near everyone better who he played with. Both on the court and off.
    -
    With all this, especially Duncan’s sheer value as a teammate and “coach,” I’ll take Timmy.

  • tpathi1

    if kobe and shaq played together thruout the 2000′s there would never have been a debate about tim duncan and his greatness…he would have only won two rings and no one would ever put some label on him as the best PF of all time.. and shaq and kobe would have won like 8 chips atleast…you guys need to understand how kobe’s selfishness altered the course of NBA history

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMo_HcRBnUY LakeShow

    30 points (all-be-it on 25 shots) with 5 rebounds and 4+ Ast gives him the statistical advantage over Harden and Wade. Wade’s defense was not great throughout the post season. I would argue they had a very similar defensive impact to Bryant. Ginobli was great, and honestly he is the one I have as the 2nd best SG in the playoffs. Followed by Wade then Harden.
    Kobe had some bad moments, but overall he had a very successful individual playoffs. He also had some moments of brilliance, but they were negated by his stupid turnovers and lack of clutch shooting. Bean wasn’t AWESOME, but neither was Wade or Harden. They all had their moments. Ginobli might have had the greatest moments, but not the overall impact.

  • Sérgio

    I gotta disagree with KG not being a great team defender. He was always huge, patrolling the paint, closing on open shooters and rotating. To me, he is, maybe, the best defender of all-time (but I can understand anyone that make an argument for Russel, Pippen or Olajuwon).

    Duncan’s post game has always been superior to Garnett’s, but there are players who were even better in the block, as Olajuwon, Mchale, Barkley, Moses.

    In regard to KG being hard to deal, I see him like Jordan or Kobe: basketball has always been everything to him. He’s always been ultra intense, and this kind of people have a hard time seeing others not giving 100% effort. Even then, we see cats like Pierce proclaiming that he is the best teammate he’s ever had. Or, what is to me the ultimate definition of a great leader: when he won the Defensive Player of the Year in 2008 and called the whole Boston team to receive the award with him, saying that the team won that, not him. That was amazing.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMo_HcRBnUY LakeShow

    tpath your kinda ‘trolly’ these days.
    Either admit Kobe is unquestionably a top 15 all time NBA talent or forever have your opinion be muted forever.

  • tpathi1

    as much as i am not a fan of his im not dumb..kobe a top 15 ball player..but when you talk about the opportunity he had to be a legit top 5 baller of all time…and maybe even #2..being in the top 15 is a huge dropoff

  • tpathi1

    i am also not a fan of this notion that wade was playing good defense..he plays individual d and he does get spectacular blocks…probably one of the best blocking sg’s in a long long time..but blocking shots doesnt make you a great defender..more often than not he was getting burnt up by rw and rondo..it was probably his knee but man his d was irritating to watch at times

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Sergio, you’re building mostly off of his Boston days when he transmogrified into a great teammate. Undoubtedly, 2008-2012 Garnett is superior to 2008-2012 Duncan. Absolutely. But to me, 1997-2007 Duncan is better than 1997-2007 Garnett. Again, I said that Garnett became a great team defender when he moved to Boston. True. But why we’re his T’Wolves teams consistently among the worst defensive teams in the league? If you argue that it’s because of his bad teammates, I would point to Orlando’s defensive dominance with Dwight anchoring the middle. Barkley doesn’t have the post game Duncan has, let’s get that straight. It comes down to whether you prefer potential results (Garnetf) or sheer, consistent winning (Duncan).
    -
    Lake, fair enough, on paper, Kobe looks solid, it’s actually watching the game that throws me. Concede this, there were A LOT of times when you were frustrated with Kobe shooting LA out of a game. I really don’t want to say he was the best SG, but I have to, only because there aren’t any other options.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMo_HcRBnUY LakeShow

    Concede.
    Wade just didn’t do anything to make me think, “Now that guy is better than Kobe.”
    Nawdameen?
    If anything, i’m down to say Ginobli was the best 2 guard at this point lol.
    Loving the classic TD vs KG debate. Always a goodie cause I don’t know who I’d take, or who was better. They are two of the greatest that’s for sure.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Word LakeShow. Give me your thoughts on TD vs KG. To me, honestly, it’s not close.

  • Sérgio

    In regard to Kobe, he really forced the issue and caused (not only by his acts) 2 Lakers losses vs OKC. But he also won Game 3 alone, almost miraculously led LA to a comeback in Game 5 vs Denver and played by himself, with no help whatsoever in Game 6 vs Denver and 5 vs OKC. It was really sad to see him givin all he had, while the other guys (except for Metta) were playing with no f#ckin heart.

    In respect to Howard’s argument, well, that is a miracle by his part, and I honestly do not remember any other team with only 1 great defender that became a great defensive team because of him. And I dont’t think TD we’d had fared better defensively with Sczberkiak, Marbury and those other scrubs.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMo_HcRBnUY LakeShow

    I feel that Garnett is the more trancendent talent. I don’t even know what that means, but what I mean it to mean is that he is the overall more prolific basketball player. He has more intangibles and tangibles at his peak than Duncan did, BUT… Duncan has a proven record. A clean slate on team mate approval, and coach approval. Garnett has not always been loved by his team mates and coaches.
    Take their 2 best individual statistical seasons and put them next to each other.
    24,13.9,5,50% with 2.2 blks 1.5 Stls
    25,12.7,3.7,50% with 2.5 blks .7 Stls
    .
    .
    .
    The first is KG the 2nd Duncan.
    Stats don’t tell you who’s better even when they seem to. In this case the stats could support either one. So as I said, love the discussion, but really I cannot decide who was truly “better” than the other at NBA basketball.
    I’ll say this:
    Duncan = Better Career
    Garnett = (ever so slightly) Better Overall Player
    That still leaves it as a toss up to me. Career achievements mean allot.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    LakeShow, my counter is that KG had a little bit of Kevin Love syndrome when he played for the Wolves. See what happened when he got to a team that had proven talent on it? Duncan knew how to put up insane numbers WITHIN a system. KG could never do that. He could either win, or dominate the offense, but never both. Maybe that sounds harsh, but the career accomplishments prove that.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMo_HcRBnUY LakeShow

    I did see what happened… He won a chip…
    Kevin Love syndrome is very unregulated. You got guys who can put up 20 PPG on a crap team but you put them on a good team and they are a guy you only want to give you 12PPG tops. K-Love and Garnett(and Duncan for this matter) are dudes that are going to give you whopping STATS in either scenario. Winning or Losing.
    Finally my point. Swap Duncan and Garnett’s careers as far as teams go, and I truly think you would see them in a different light.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    He won a ring, but with reduced stats. That’s my point, Garnett had a ring OR stats. Duncan had ring(s) AND stats.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Duncan. More consistent. Less volatile. He was an offensive and defensive anchor. He was never overmatched. He could guard 4′s and 5′s. KG was physically unable to handle certain physical players, he couldn’t check Duncan for example, and never had the offensive game to completely exploit a guy like Duncan on the other end. Duncan was a much more polished low post player, the offense could run through him AND rely on him to carry it as an isolation player. Garnett was a better player at certain points and undoubtedly in certain situations. Garnett was probably a more “versatile” defender in what he could do against a pick and roll while being able to cover 4 positions adequately rather than 2 like Duncan. But Duncan was a far far superior rim protector. And to me, that is much more valuable (especially in their respective eras) aspect of their games then Garnett’s ability to guard the perimeter. Duncan was basically universally effective at carrying a team on both ends, while Garnett never was.
    .
    But i would say Garnett in 2006 was absolutely masterful on both ends. He just never dominated year in and year out (especially in the playoffs) like Duncan did. It’s deeper than stats, it’s about their effect on wins and losses.

  • http://Roosterteeth.com Caboose

    Well said nbk.

  • http://Slam Delicious

    Trade Kobe to Philly for Igadolla/ holiday/ scrub
    Trade Bynum for D Howard
    Trade metta peace/scrub for P pierce
    Keep gasol
    Sign D Williams
    2013 Lakers
    Pg- d Williams sg-Igadolla
    Sf- pierce pf- gasol c- d Howard

Advertisement