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Thursday, May 30th, 2013 at 3:55 pm  |  35 responses

Indiana Pacers Say Shane Battier is a Dirty Player


An underrated, and perhaps one-sided feud in the Eastern Conference Finals is the one between Roy Hibbert and Shane Battier. The big fella, for the second time in this increasingly-testy series, is calling out the Miami Heat role player for dirty tactics. Hibbert and some other Indiana Pacers (notably, David West) accuse Battier of going after their knees. Per the Indy Star and ESPN: “‘I always have to have my guard up and protect my knees when he’s on me,’ West said. ‘He’s got this funny way of moving into your knees, so we’re very conscious of that. So we talk about protecting our knees. It’s an irritant. I’m doubly conscious of it because of my own knee issues (an ACL surgery before last season). You just know the way he plays, he’s trying to make an impact any way he can, so you just have to be prepared for everything.’ [...] ‘I know what (Battier) brings to the game and it’s worked for him in the past. He has to do whatever he has to do to make sure his team wins,’ Hibbert said. ‘I’m going to watch my knees, watch my groin. … To tell you the truth, I don’t care. I’m in there, I’m playing tough. He has to do what he has to do. Obviously I don’t like it but it’s a part of the game. I don’t want to look back say I gave in to a dirty player.’ Battier has declined to discuss the Pacers’ opinion of his style of play during the series. An undersized power forward, Battier did say Thursday there’s a challenge when guarding larger players like West and Hibbert in the post. At different times, Battier has also been accused of being a flopper. ‘In a perfect world, we’d all love to be stoic, immovable forces where the force of very large men throwing themselves into you doesn’t affect you,’ Battier said. ‘Yeah, that’d be great. But unfortunately, there’s a thing called physics involved that seems to win out more often than not.’ The Pacers stopped short of saying Battier was purposely trying to injure them.”

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  • Junior Taylor

    The Pacers sure do a lot of whining for a supposed tough and hard-nosed team.
    I don’t think one can label what Battier does as “dirty”, pesky and annoying may be the right words.

  • Lloyd

    Going knee first into someone’s crotch is a lot more than “pesky and annoying”. It’s flat out dirty.

  • Lloyd

    I’m tired of dirty/cheap moves being excused as “veteran plays”. Glad the Pacers are calling out Battier. Hopefully the refs watch for that stuff now.

  • spit hot fiyah

    battier is become increasingly unlikable, it’s like his inability to play offense has made him take out his frustration on the other team with cheap shots

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    it’s also a way a lot of people naturally jump.

  • Lloyd

    Not sure if sarcasm or…

    Dude got his knee way up and made sure to make contact rather than adjust to the shot block attempt. Unless you want to make an argument that Shane Battier was going to dunk on Roy Hibbert, that’s a blatant knee to the crotch.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    no i’m just saying, some people do jump like that. i know i’ve inadvertently knee/kicked some people in the crotch.

  • Lloyd

    For sure people do. I mean all our first coaches taught us to make our lay ups like that. All that’s irrelevant in this discussion though. It’s pretty clear what Battier did in this instance and his intentions behind it

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    ehhhh, calling it flat out dirty is as irrelevant. he could have just been trying to create space, and it turned out to go wrong and be dirty. maybe he was just trying to get his shot up over a guy who is a half foot taller than him……
    .
    i’d say he’s pesky and annoying.
    .
    the Pacers do stuff just like Battier does. The difference is, Battier isn’t bitching about it.

  • Lloyd

    That’s a lot of maybes you’re trying to spoon feed there…

    I don’t think he’s dirty in the way that he goes out on the court with the intention of hurting someone every game. I think he’s dirty because he’ll do whatever it takes to give his team the advantage, including bending the rules and manipulating appearances of plays.

    I haven’t seen Hibbert play dirty. Besides West shoving some people on rebounds and the occasional flop, don’t see much from him either. The only two I’d call out on the Pacers is Lance Stephenson and Tyler Hansborough. I can’t stand him. I’ll take Battier over Hansborough any day.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS A MAYBE.
    .
    that’s the point.

  • Lloyd

    There’s stronger visual evidence to support an intentional shot to the groin than there is a legitimate shot attempt.

    Hibbert may have been a little late on the help, but he was there with enough time to go up with two feet straight up. Battier saw him coming too. He was trying to create space with a knee? That’s not creating space, that’s intent to injure.

    He was trying to get a shot up over Hibbert? Shane Battier isn’t that player. He took only 46 shots that weren’t 3′s this season. Only 5 in the playoffs. Out of those small numbers, how many do you think were in the paint? More importantly, how many of those do you think he attempted to put up over 7 footers? Let’s not act like he’s some strong finisher who intended to score over Hibbert.

    And calling it dirty is not irrelevant in a discussion on whether or not Shane Battier is a dirty player.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    that’s not intent to injure. that’s your interpretation of it.
    .
    - it maybe intent to injure
    - it maybe intent to create space
    - it maybe unintentional

    you don’t know for sure.
    .
    So he wasn’t trying to get a shot over Hibbert, by taking a shot over Hibbert? That makes perfect sense.
    .
    I’m not acting like he’s a strong finisher. That’s why he would resort to a cheap trick like creating space with his knee.
    .
    Calling Shane Battier dirty because of a knee you only have an opinion about is JUST AS RELEVANT as saying some people jump like that naturally. Sh*t maybe less relevant. As yours is an opinion, and what I said is a fact.

  • The Seed

    Battier purposely tries to get under players skin. As a Rocket, he did this to Kobe all the time. Battier flops, kicks, shoves and if you look at one of his flops during last game, he actually threw his feet out to trip the person and still did not get a call on him.

  • Lloyd

    He went knee first into a guy who was there going straight up! There’s no where that he could’ve hit that wouldn’t have hurt Hibbert.

    He half attempted a shot yes, by feebly throwing the ball in the general direction of the backboard after his crotch shot, but like I said, he doesn’t attempt shots in the paint, especially over 7 foot shot blockers. He’s not that player. Why is he trying to do it here? Here’s a fact for you: A dirty player tries to disguise their dirty play as legitimate basketball plays.

    Your “fact” to try and justify Shane Battier’s knee to Hibbert’s balls is that “some people jump like that naturally”. That vague fact is just as good as me saying “some people don’t jump like that” or “some people play dirty”.

    Battier flops and says that there’s something called physics so it’s not a flop. Should we think that he doesn’t, just because gravity exists? I mean some people can’t take much contact because their balance isn’t great so it’s possible that his falls are legitimate. Just because it isn’t a black and white situation, doesn’t mean you can’t draw conclusions from strong evidence. Sounds like you need Shane Battier to do something blatant like stab someone to think of him as dirty.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    You have to be able to see that this is all your opinion. None of what you are saying is factual, the only fact you have is that Battier went knee first into a layup attempt, and defended flopping at some point.
    .
    “He went knee first into a guy who was there going straight up! There’s no where that he could’ve hit that wouldn’t have hurt Hibbert.”
    .
    - Hurt is subjective. I could say the same stupid thing about David West and the screens he sets with his elbow. There is no spot on the human body that a guy shoving his elbow into won’t hurt. SO yeah, he led with his knee, but i highly doubt he was purposefully trying to hurt someone.
    .
    “He half attempted a shot yes, by feebly throwing the ball in the general direction of the backboard after his crotch shot, but like I said, he doesn’t attempt shots in the paint, especially over 7 foot shot blockers. ”

    - once again, i know he’s uncomfortable and not used to trying to finish around the hoop. which is conceivably why he led knee first. Because he is uncomfortable doing it. And he is not “feebly throwing the ball in the general direction of the backboard” – that is a legitimate shot attempt.
    .
    http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1358852.1369940637!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/pacers-heat-basketball.jpg

    .
    i am not trying to justify any of what he did. but i’m not going to react to what the Pacers players are saying and just parade around with a theory that Shane Battier is exceptionally dirty. Or trying to hurt anyone. That’s an assumption. And that’s ignorant.
    .
    ALL PLAYER’S FLOP. using flopping, or what a guy says about flopping to justify your THEORY that a guy is dirty, doesn’t help. That makes everyone dirty.
    .
    And i’m not saying anything definitive either way. I wasn’t trying to justify what Battier did. I was trying to get you to see that just because you think something about an action, doesn’t make it true. In my opinion, Shane Battier is an annoying basketball player who employs cheap tricks. But I don’t find him to be dirty.
    .
    Either way, I don’t think my opinion is a fact. And i’m not going to make a fool out of myself acting like it is.

  • Lloyd

    Yes David West throwing bows on picks is just as dirty as throwing a knee into the midsection of a defendor so I don’t know what you’re trying to prove there…but yes you’re giving Battier the benefit of the doubt for some reason.

    Why is he even going for the layup in the first place? Like we both agree on, that’s not his game. I understand the shot clock was winding down, but Shane Battier taking a 3 with Tyler Hansborough rotating late is more plausible than Shane Battier trying to finish over a 7 footer. Even a pull up jumper when he saw Hibbert coming over to help would’ve made more sense. I can’t imagine ANY way that Battier thought he was going to finish that.

    And like I said, dirty plays are always disguised as legitimate basketball plays. He went up with the ball like that, kneed Hibbert, kept his knee up, then just threw the ball at the backboard. Like I said, there was no way that this could’ve ended in a basket for him.

    It’s not because of the Pacers saying it. Shane Battier has always been a fan of the extra-curricular activities that “get under the skin” of opponents. The “veteran moves” he always done. It’s just spotlighted now because a team is actually calling him out on it.

    You missed that point completely if that’s what you think I meant with the flopping analogy. The FACT is, some people fall over when they’re bumped into because of gravity. Shane Battier cites this and says he’s not a flopper. Most people agree that he is because c’mon…he’s a flopper. His fact that physics makes people fall, doesn’t mean much. In the same way, your fact that “some people jump like that naturally,” doesn’t mean much here. Like I said earlier, it’s just as impactful as me saying, “some people don’t jump like that.

    It can never be fact unless Battier comes out and admits that he is. The most you can do is draw conclusions from the evidence and his actions on the floor. There’s no point in arguing anything on here then because it’s all going to be opinions, even if they’re based on stats and some fact. The point is to argue your opinion to get others to see why you believe it to be so…

    Like I said before, I think Battier is dirty because he’ll do whatever it takes to give his team the advantage, including bending the rules and altering the appearances of what actually is happening. If you call that “annoying/pesky”, more power to you. I call it dirty.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Man when I meant that’s your opinion I was referring to you claiming to know what Battier’s intent was. Of course your view of him as a player is opinion. I didn’t mean to say it to day you are wrong for stating your opinion of battier as a player. My bad if that’s how that came off

  • Lloyd

    Yea it did, but no worries. I just didn’t think I needed to precede it with, “in my opinion…”. I mean, unless I’m psychic or super powered, it’s pretty safe to assume that I can’t know his thought process.

    I respect your opinions, your status as slam OG, your knowledge of the game, and you make some really good points, but sometimes you come off as condescending as hell on here. Wouldn’t have it no other way though.

  • South side

    Nbk ur a joke. People with ur mentality is what is wrong with this world. You know SB did it on purpose.

  • Teddy-the-Bear

    He’s become so… esoteric.

  • danpowers

    there is a thin line between playing “smart” and playing snaky. the older battier gets the dirtyer he plays. people free of sportsmanship may call it “smart”, but to me it stops to be something positive when someone accepts an unnecessary high chance to hurt others. its not just since that heat series that i have the feeling that battier is playing too “smart”/”dirty”. i understand that he wants to make up for his inferior athleticism / age, but one can also do that with a rugged style of play that wont go for other players’ vulnerable body parts.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Haha I appreciate it man. Disappointingly, I’m trying to be less condescending, but I do appreciate that. Lol

  • roscoe

    don’t ever worry about being condescending to me BRAH.

    i am way above you… all day everyday

  • GMR

    No disrespect bro but this dude has been unlikeable since 1998, its nothing he has recently become. Damn near ever cat that comes from Coach K’s program is dirty as hell. Look up some of the dook antics if you are not fully aware.

  • GMR

    Dude has played like this since dook, he’s dirty as hell. All of kay’s minions are

  • GMR

    Must be new to the game. Battier is not getting dirtier the older is gets..this dude has been dirty as hell for the last 15 years. Come on man

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    You sure? Wouldn’t assume too much bruh

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    He’s cheap. But I don’t think he’s dirty. I think stuff like what Garnett has done is dirty. Andrew Bynum is dirty. I save that label for people that truly do stuff that you don’t want any part of, not even as a teammate.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    You didn’t present it as an opinion. You presented it as a fact. Im not saying you have to say “in my opinion” but just because you are a person saying it, presenting it as fact is not usually going to be taken as an opinion. I mean I used to do that ALL the time and get in really bad arguments over huge misunderstandings. Reread our conversation, I was just trying to show that there is no way to be sure.

  • game of war

    It has became a psychological game now. Every team will use it to their advantage. They play with each other for a long time and it is nothing new.

  • Matt

    Battier has always been one of the dirtiest players in the league. It doesn’t change the fact that he’s a very valuable 3 & D player who can guard multiple positions.

  • Shooting Guard

    it’s cute how the media highlights all of miami’s flaws to build up the pacers, however pacers need more than their 2 man offense. i think this will end wether in game 6 or 7, it’s done

  • danpowers

    he has never been that athletic and so always been trying to make up for that somehow. but to me it rlly appears as if he is getting worse with the years. might be a wrong subjective impression tht i have here.

  • Lloyd

    It’s an internet comment section, that’s why I don’t give completely formal arguments. Same reason why I didn’t cite the Shane Battier shooting stat. All my opinions/arguments are logical though. Do I make a lot of inferences? Sure, that’s because this is the forum to do so.

    To me, what I believe is fact until I’m convinced by someone else (at least on the internet). That means, to me Shane Battier is a dirty player, based on my inferences from the evidence, until someone convinces me he isn’t. Not that he MAY not be because there is lack of concrete evidence, like you think is necessary, because there can be no such evidence unless Shane Battier comes out and says, “I’m a dirty player.”

    A high percentage of stuff said on here is completely opinion based. I mean you can use stats to back those opinions up, but they’re still opinions. You just can’t use physical stats to prove something intangible like mindsets, like in this instance though, and that’s the problem. Everything said about Shane Battier being or not being a dirty player will be opinion.

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