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Tuesday, May 28th, 2013 at 1:30 pm  |  221 responses

LeBron James Says Flopping Is Not a Bad Thing


Though opponents routinely scream that they’re a bunch of floppers, it should be noted that no Miami Heat players have been warned or fined for flopping by the NBA in the regular season or the Playoffs. Still, LeBron James (no fan of the act himself) can understand why some players do it, and thinks it works for them. On the whole, LBJ doesn’t see what the big fuss over flopping is. Per CBS Sports: “‘It hasn’t been a problem for many guys at all,’ James said. ‘I don’t really pay too much attention to it. I think it’s been good, I guess.’ And since we’re guessing here, I guess LeBron was talking about the policy itself, not the fact that it has proved to be woefully ineffective at stopping the bane of basketball, the trickery and foolishness that are ruining the games. ‘It’s year one, so you’re not just going to go cold turkey,’ James said. ‘Guys have been accustomed to doing it for years, and it’s not even a bad thing. You’re just trying to get the advantage. Any way you can get the advantage over an opponent to help your team win, then so be it.’ [...] ‘It’s sad to say, but it’s not just against the Heat but throughout the whole season,’ Pacers center Roy Hibbert said. ‘We all make a substantial amount of money and people still do it.’ ‘Who’s the worst?’ I asked. ‘I’m not going to answer that,’ Hibbert said. [...] I asked Dwyane Wade on Monday what he thinks about the league’s anti-flopping policy and how well it’s worked. His reaction was telling. ‘Um, I don’t know, I don’t want to get into all that,’ Wade said, before pausing for a couple of seconds. ‘I don’t want to get into it.’ When I pointed out that flopping still happens in the games, he agreed. ‘It happens,’ Wade said. ‘But we would have no NBA possibly if they got rid of all the flopping.’”

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  • LP @ThisisEther

    “…it should be noted that no Miami Heat players have been warned or fined for flopping by the NBA in the regular season or the Playoffs”….Great.

  • zogs19994

    YOU’VE BEEN AROUND D-WADE FOR TOO LONG BRON BRON….

  • 1982

    Anything that helps you win basketball games isn’t a bad thing. But it ruins it for the people watching – especially when it takes away from the whole nature of the game. Ball don’t lie, unless you take acting classes.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    gross. just flop away from this question if that’s how you feel.

  • Judah1012

    Flopping didn’t just start this season. Reggie Miller was great at it. He called it “selling calls”. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn’t. Guys are going to do whatever it takes to win especially at this point in the season. Hate it or love it, it’s what some guys do. This isn’t one of the elements of today’s “soft” style of play at some people like to say. It’s been here and guys will approach that line and cross it at times if they can get away with it.

  • pposse

    why does he choose to say stupid ish like this?!

  • pposse

    “We would have no NBA possibly if they got rid of all the flopping” – first of all what a grammatically incoherent statement. Secondly are you trying to say there would be no NBA without flopping?! wow Wade just keeps plummeting in my books. SMH

  • Ses

    I agree that it has been a round for years, but I disagree that it is not apart of the “Soft” style of play. These primadonnas are ruining the game because it seems like they flop as much as the shoot. It was not this way during the golden age of the game (80′s – 90′s). The floppers back then were the minority (Reggie, Vlade, etc), it seems like it is a major part of the game now. It has recently help change the outcome of games. (Totally not cool in my book)

  • Judah1012

    He’s saying that so many players flop that there would be no players left if they took all of those guys away. I’ve seen every star player overreact to a foul. Every one. There’s nothing grammatically unclear or confusing about that statement. It makes perfect sense. Could he have stated it better or elaborated on it? Sure. But it wasn’t gibberish. You just don’t agree with it. But disagreeing doesn’t give you the right to act like something was wrong with it grammatically.

  • Mars

    You would

  • Judah1012

    We can talk all day about whether it’s cool or not. That depends on the person watching. But instead of calling it a part of today’s inferior style of play compared to the 80s and 90s, I’d say that these guys are students of the game. If they all sat and watched it work for Reggie and Vlade, why would they not try it today? It’s the same as players watching Jordan and those guys and mimicking those moves. Some mimic Reggie’s flopping. In the same way that flopping players were in the minority as you say, explosive PGs were also. Look at how it is now. So the game evolves totally. May not like it, but these guys aren’t stupid. Some of them will do whatever it takes to win. Flopping is included because referees can’t catch them all. So they take a few risks. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. Same with how Reggie used to kick his leg out on jumpshots and get the foul call. The league has tried to take that away, but they don’t get them all.

  • Ses

    Touche!…….

  • pposse

    “But we would have no NBA possibly” doesnt roll off the tongue properly, or does it? Man i dont know. I agree with you, what you said is probably what he meant. I’m a little upset that him and bron would take time to address the question especially with all the speculation around them being main culprits/ beneficiaries of flopping.

  • http://www.reverbnation.com/savagemuzicgroup T-Ray

    Probably one of the best comments made regarding flopping that I’ve read thus far.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    this guy has been one hell of a commenter over the last week or so.

  • Conor

    Disgraceful.

  • Judah1012

    May not roll off the tongue easily but it’s not grammatically incorrect. They’re not going to ignore questions asked during these media sessions. The only reason why there’s discussion about them being the main ones who flop now is because they’re some of the few left still playing. Didn’t hear too much about them during the regular season. And I’ve seen nothing from either one of them this entire season that was as horrible as Tony Allen’s flop after that Ginobili foul.

  • Conor O’Hara
  • playa
  • danpowers

    it wasnt easy to be able to respect him again after “the decision”. and now that! thanks bron, for making it so difficult to appreciate your game

  • Max

    “I tought you changed to being more likeable Lebron!”

  • Gursh

    LOL @ the bitter Knick fans. Haters gonna hate. “Winning isn’t everything, it’s the only thing” – Vince Lombardi.

  • Max

    About that last sentence.
    Yes we would DWade, it’s called the 80′s.

  • Junior Taylor

    The problem is not the flopping, it’s the fact that the NBA refuses to hand out any kind of serious punishment to cease flopping.

  • Melanie Eric

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  • Judah1012

    What’s that supposed to do? Just a man giving his opinion which means I can disagree. And I do. He must forget about Metta World Peace. Breaking Jordan’s ribs in a pickup game, pulling Paul Pierce’s shorts down, elbowing James Harden in the head. His play on Harden was worse than anything Wade has done in my opinion which is all we’re talking about…opinions. Wade’s play on Kobe during the All-Star game wouldn’t have been talked about nearly as much if it were a regular season game. It would have been a moment for fans who loved the 80s and 90s to cheer if it had happened in a regular season game. If Rondo’s elbow had stayed located, it would have just been a simple foul. Wade’s intent, knowing the kind of dude he is, was surely not to injure Rondo but to pull him down while he was falling himself which I’ve seen guys do often. His plays get a ton of attention because he’s one of the best players in the league. Not because they’re more heinous than World Peace’s plays. That final statement that dude makes about Wade being a cheater and him saying it’s a fact? Wrong. The plays he’s made are facts. Him being a cheater overall is just dude’s opinion. The points, rebounds, assists, blocks, and the awards that all of those have led to are facts. I could go find an article and post the link here of some random dude who agrees with me. Means nothing other than that you found someone who’s on your side. Good for you. If you want to call him the dirtiest star player, cool. But the dirtiest player period? Nah. Let me know when World Peace and Andrew Bynum (who’s thrown some pretty dirty shots at guys who are in the air) are done playing and then we’ll talk. We could also talk about Kobe’s string of plays where he hit dudes in the face after they blocked his shot a couple of seasons ago or him elbowing World Peace while trying to block him out in the playoffs.

  • danpowers

    why are b*tches always getting to me with the knicks when i comment on something totally not knicks related?

    it was never the problem that he chose miami. its how he did it or more how he sold himself. like a conceited prick. then his classless behaviour during the finals against the mavs was the icing on the cake.

    i had no problem to respect how he matured and changed the year after that season of shaking ones head about that gifted guy. it was a pleasure to see him play the last year. but this bs attitude he shows with a comment like that one here makes it hard to just lay back and enjoy his show.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    You need to reword what you just said. Or slap yourself. You can not appreciate him as a player, but if you aren’t appreciating what he does on a basketball court than you are just depriving yourself. This is like not appreciating any of Magic/Bird/Jordan/Olajuwan/Shaq/Duncan/Kobe while they were at the top of their game. It’s only going to leave you with a flawed view of history.

  • Judah1012

    Classless behavior? Explain. If you’re talking about he and Wade seemingly mocking Dirk Nowitzki and his sickness, okay. But other than that, he did nothing that was classless. I hope you’re not talking about his comments after they lost because there was nothing classless about them. So what are you referring to exactly? I also find it weird that you would be so upset and sensitive over a comment he made in a media session that you disagree with that you wouldn’t enjoy watching him play.

  • MUBWAR

    cause the knicks suck and it’s fun to remind it to lbj hater knicks fan. Melo did worst (holding a team back for a year and a half) and I don’t see you talk about that…

  • 1982

    That’s kind of like calling MWP slapping the crap outta someone the same as the Bad Boys type of tough D. Or every time someone pushes off on a drive you could say they were a student of Jordan. It’s a part of the game whether you like it or not, and if it’s not your team doing it, you’ll probably hate it. But it’s not about learning, it’s about what you can get away with. Traveling, holding jerseys to box out, that’s all part of the game. The difference is today, there’s ridiculous HD instant replays and the Internet and it makes a lot of it seem excessive to the point of being rigged. Phantom Elbows and fake charges etc didn’t used to be preached about. Now that it is, some people obviously would like something done about it. Problem is, fines or not that’s practically impossible unless you can make in game calls. But I don’t see it as them getting smarter.

  • shockexchange

    Flopping is not a basketball play. If the refs started handing out technical fouls for “unsportsmanlike conduct” then it would stop.

  • Judah1012

    When thousands of people can talk about it on Twitter and Facebook, it gets plenty of attention. Definitely not like it was just 10 years ago. Referees won’t catch everything. Players know it. So they test the limits which I don’t have a problem with them doing.

  • Judah1012

    Impossible to catch them all.

  • danpowers

    i aint a lbj hater, i just dont like classless behaviour and i even state that sh*t when i see it among knicks players.
    why should i talk about that in a topic about a heat player? lol
    he didnt do too bad for a guy who was playing the last 12 games with a torn shoulder tho ;) the knicks suck? yo momma ;)

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    ^ not a Pokèmon reference

  • danpowers

    yes, i was referring to mocking nowitzkis sickness.

    i hate flopping and doing that in my opinion demonstrates a lack of sportsmanship. he is a great player, no doubt. almost every player flops sooner or later. thats just something a man should feel ashamed for. its a cheap play. no need to publicly legitimate that bs. im a little disapointed by that attitude.

  • shockexchange

    When someone is gaining an advantage, there’s nothing wrong with trying to bring the ref’s attention to it by acting a little bit. Ginobili’s flopping in recent years and Vlade Divac’s flopping in the past was down right “unsportsmanlike.” The other thing is the constant crying to the refs after nearly every no-call. Tee these clowns up and it will stop.

  • danpowers

    slap n depriving myself? yo momma

    i can appreciate him as a player, its just that he pulls sh*t every once in a while that lets him look like a villain. its not easy to cheer for the villain, but with a little effort still possible. what i said was that he makes it difficult for me to appreciate his game. not that i wouldnt appreciate his game. i see him as the player that he is and never did anything else. so whats the point man?

  • Judah1012

    Sportsmanship? Is this about them or you? This isn’t about being a real man. You’re going too deep with it. It’s simple. It’s strictly about winning. Whatever it takes to win. If you need 2 points and you get fouled, sell it well and get the call, you’re going to the line for 2 points. Nothing wrong with it. It’s not unfair because so many players do it and usually, both teams have at least one guy who is good at selling a call on both ends of the floor. You can be disappointed. Every fan can be disappointed. But we’re not playing. They are. You can turn off your TV, the game will continue. So regardless of how we feel, if a player knows he can take a risk and it works, that’s really all that matters. Not what any fan feels about it.

  • Judah1012

    Dude…”Yo momma”????

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    nevermind. apparently it’s tough for you to separate the emotions you feel for player’s from the actual game of basketball. the point doesn’t apply to you, because of your emotional maturity. i apologize.

  • Judah1012

    You calling it crying is more a reflection on you than it is on them. Asking for calls isn’t crying. Especially since it works. Does it make you feel tough saying that they cry or what? What’s really your issue? Because if you expect players (and coaches) to stop planting ideas in the heads of referees, you’re out of your mind. And clowns? Coming from the dude who calls Kobe Bryant “Horry Jr.”? And keeps talking about some kind of “shock exchange rules”? They’re the clowns?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    you just told me you set moving screens on people during fast breaks just to piss them off. and now you are spouting about sportsmanship? you are a flaming idiot dude.

  • danpowers

    no, its not. machiavellianism is making the whole world a worse place, no matter what dimension you look at: society, politics or in this case sports.

    honestly man, when i play out there and i win by sh*t like wrong calls, flopping or cheap shots that win tastes bitter. what value has a win when it was not earned honest? to me: no value at all. thats a little bit exaggerated but i wanted to explain my mindset.

    it also depends on the flop. if he actually gets hit and knows he may not get a call i have no problem with a player lowering his body tension to emphazise the impact of how he got hit. to me flopping is a bit more, like acting up even when there is just little contact or no contact at all just to get a call that should help one win. honestly? f*ck that. ill still watch the game but wont be that impressed by players winning that way.

    im still impressed by james play tho. i dont even see him as such a bad flopper. there are guys out there being worse. i just have an issue with him stating that flopping aint shameful, coz it is.

    im from europe and have to live with soccer/football where flops (dives) happen more frequently than in basketball. i dont want the game of basketball to turn into that phony sh*t, where flopping is an accepted play of the sport’s culture. it would just be annoying man, trust me.

  • danpowers

    i didnt say moving screens, i run in front of them in their lane to slow them down, yes, to piss them off and keep them from getting back on defense in time. i also foul hard and play rugged when i need to. just not coming from behind, i am not squezing or scratching guys and i dont throw myself to the ground or yell around like a sour spoiled kid to get calls and id be the first one to tell my teammates to stfu when they start wining about calls with the officials. youre just flaming on all i say. shove ur comments up your a’s man

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    “i didnt say moving screens, i run in front of them in their lane to slow them down, yes, to piss them off and keep them from getting back on defense in time”

    - you just described a moving screen man. Do you even know the rules of basketball?
    .
    - you aren’t a professional basketball player who gets paid a living based on how successful you are while your playing. So please, save me with the astonishingly ignorant description of what you do while playing at your local pick up / rec game.

  • danpowers

    yup, his momma

  • Judah1012

    …Anytime you have to mention Machiavelli on an article that’s talking about flopping in basketball, you know you’ve gone too far. Not that deep bro. Relax. I guarantee you D-Wade and those guys didn’t look at that O’Brien trophy last season and think about any flopping call they got. The Spurs have never looked at one of the 3 rings they’ve won with Manu and thought about him flopping as if it’s not a legit championship. To be honest, no one cares about what you value. These guys aren’t playing so that a fan at home can respect how they play and win. You’re playing for nothing but a good time. They’re playing for the NBA. Huge difference.

  • Judah1012

    Your responses are about as good as JR Smith’s field goal percentage this post season. Can’t get sensitive when people come at your Knicks and then turn around and say “Yo momma”.

  • danpowers

    lol to reason someones emotional maturity through the INTERNET by his / her statements regarding a GAME really begets of being a smarta*s i guess

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    uhm, showing that you have emotions about a game….over the internet..
    .
    does that by itself

  • Judah1012

    You brought up Machiavelli when talking about a game, now you’re using upper case letters to emphasize the point that it’s not that serious. Make up your mind man. The “Yo” part is what made me laugh. The fact that you even thought about saying it is bad enough. Can’t talk about how guys should be real men and stop flopping and then say “Yo momma”. Can’t talk about what men should feel ashamed for and then say “Yo momma”.

  • danpowers

    - meh, to me a moving screen is when i set a screen while moving lol. what i do there is just risking a blocking foul, which hardly ever happens.

    - there are enough pros out there who still play the game the hard way, so if you dont like my philosophy, fine. just dont act as if your approach was the gold standard for the game of basketball and superior to opposing philosophies.

    “there isn’t just one way of doing it”. nobody forces you to like my attitude regarding the game. why the hell are you trying to indoctrinate me? you have absolutely no point doing so. if you see the game a different way, fine. got no issue with that.

    just watch european soccer/football if you want to see where letting flops become an accepted part of the game leads to and tell me honestly if you want basketball to turn into that.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    - “meh, to me a moving screen is when i set a screen while moving lol. that is a blocking foul.”

    . Running infront of someone to slow them down or change their direction is a moving screen. You are MOVING infront of someone to SCREEN them into a different direction or speed.
    .
    There is no interpretation. It’s a rule. A clearly written rule.
    .
    And did you just start responding to other comments in here because you have nothing else to say? I didn’t say a damn thing to you about accepting or not accepting flopping. I don’t give a sh*t how you feel about it, I’m just pointing out the utterly ridiculous double standard that you hold for yourself compared to NBA players. Or the double standard you claim to hold. While denying that it is a double standard.
    .
    You are a human paradox. And not in a good way.

  • danpowers

    “…Anytime you have to mention Machiavelli on an article that’s talking
    about flopping in basketball, you know you’ve gone too far.”

    thats why i wrote ” thats a little bit exaggerated but i wanted to explain my mindset.”

    ” To be honest, no one cares about what you value.”

    hm then i wonder where all the replies are coming from lol

    “These guys aren’t playing so that a fan at home can respect how they play and win.”
    wouldnt expect anything else. every once in a while u see guys out there in the nba who just seem to hold a different standard to themselves. those are just the ones i prefer to see winning over guys who do stuff like e.g. ginobili. we’re all just expressing our opinions out here n thats just what i do. i dont expect many people to agree anyway. if that was a mainstream attitude, we’d be living in a better world anyway lol

  • Judah1012

    If you knew it was exaggerated, why type it?

    Notice that I’m not LeBron James or Dwyane Wade. So by nobody, I clearly meant the players. The entire NBA really.

    So we’re talking about standards? Are you implying that Wade or LeBron don’t have a high standard for themselves only because they flop? Nevermind the work they put in in the summer or during the season to maintain what they do in the summer. Pretty high standard. Flopping doesn’t take away from it at all. Name one superstar player who’s won a championship in the last 15 years that didn’t flop some. You must not enjoy watching too many Finals series. LeBron, Wade, Dirk, Kobe, Pierce, Ginobili…all of them.

  • robb

    I think you’re overcriticizing this guy. Maybe DWade doesn’t give a sh*t about what dan thinks but he has the freedom to express what he doesn’t like about the game. We all know these guys play to win and they’re ready to do whatever it takes to achieve their goal, but that doesn’t mean people should accept flopping. Dan thinks it sucks, most of us think it sucks and the league know it sucks, they wouldn’t be trying to punish flopping if it was OK.

  • Clos1881

    Wade and lebron were also all first team floppers

  • Judah1012

    It’s not about accepting it either. Like I said, turn the TV off and the game continues. The way he talks about it is like he’s putting them in some kind of category as if they’re not as tough or as manly as the other players in the league. He actually said they should feel ashamed of themselves as men. As if what they’re doing is so out of the ordinary. Read what he’s been saying. My main point is that it’s a part of the game whether people like it or not.

  • danpowers

    exaggerating sometimes helps to make a statement clear in its final consequence or to emphazise its essence.

    i wouldnt dare to question their work ethic.

    to me its just an unwritten gentlemen’s agreement in sports to compete against each other in an honest way or at least as honest as possible.
    and as i said, to me there is a difference between selling actual contact and a sheer flop. i dont see bron, dirk, kobe or pierce as big or cheap floppers anyway. i just hardly disagree on that flopping statement by lebron. thats it.

  • danpowers

    thx

  • Conor

    i. Supporting flopping is a joke. This is basketball, not soccer. For flopping to have proliferated from sporadic players like Miller & Divac & Sabonis to the aberration it has become is why basketball cannot be classified with the likes of football and baseball and soccer: the officials and (now many) players make the game look weak because they’d prefer to reward deceit instead of defence.

    ii. Wade is a flopping, dirty cheat & what he has done is not comparable to Kobe backhanding Marco Jaric & Manu Ginobli. Artest & Bynum have violent natures, like Wade. There’s no point in comparing them. What I was hoping to demonstrate to you was that it’s widely acknowledged that Wade, James, & others who manipulate flopping are cheaters in a fundamental way to the sport. To disagree is ludicrous. You’re telling me you’ve never wished to punish some punk after he p***ies out and flops? Maybe you are that kind of player, but the fact remains that that method is diluted, weak basketball and should not be advocated or defended in any way. It should be eliminated, but the League does nothing.

  • danpowers

    “Running infront of someone to slow them down or change their direction
    is a moving screen. You are MOVING infront of someone to SCREEN them
    into a different direction or speed.”

    so be it, it rarely ever gets called anyway if ever. i didnt even see it draw any call ever in the nba or anywhere else. as i said, it hardly ever leads to actual contact and even if it is not totally clean it just doesnt get called.

    i respond to people who talk to me so wtf?

    rough play and phony moves are two different things. if somebody doesnt like rough play he / she might be better off watching ballett instead.

    flops are just phony, a form of snitching. if you like it, fine. i just dont. so what?

    im a human paradox? lol what the hell did you smoke today? your attempts to judge me are quite amusing man

  • danpowers

    he told me to slap myself and judges me by stating that i would be depriving myself just because he disagrees with what i wrote. i just respond with the same lack of respect to him. if somebody talks to me reasonable and with respect i respond with the same respect and reasonable demeanor.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    “i respond to people who talk to me so wtf?”

    - well you are pressing reply. you aren’t just posting. i don’t give a sh*t about whatever it is you are talking about with someone else. And I don’t care about how you feel about flopping. What you said about sportsmanship and “thats just something a man should feel ashamed for. its a cheap play. no need to publicly legitimate that bs. im a little disapointed by that attitude” – reflects back on you and the shady sh*t you say you do to people on fast breaks in the exact same way.

    .

    you don’t agree…which is fine. just like people don’t agree with what you are saying. that’s what.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    what you said was stupid. you apparently still don’t understand what you said.
    .
    it’s like me saying i can’t appreciate Michael Jordan’s career because he gambled, and i find gambling immoral.
    .
    it was stupid. you should slap yourself. or reword it.

  • pposse

    the refs are too old to differentiate what a flop from a foul is

  • Judah1012

    What did that exaggeration have to do with the rest of your comment? You said Machiavellianism is making the world worse. What in the world does it have to do with the NBA?

    Nah, there’s no “unwritten gentlemen’s agreement”. Especially not in the playoffs. When almost each team is doing it, that’s the agreement. The agreement is win by any means necessary and every team knows it and plays by it. Which is what LeBron said in his answer to the question that was posed to him. If it will help him win, why not? Since every team flops.

  • pposse

    TA didnt flop when he fell on the floor and nearly broke his arm saving his fall, what he did afterwards was unneccessary holding his head and all. What’s just as bad was in the 4th qtr game 5 against the bulls when Lebron tried to sell a flagrant, where they actually called a flagrant on Nate Robinson for hitting Lebron in the head, but then went to the replay and reversed it to a normal foul. Stuff like that deserves a fine. Ginobli committed a very dangerous play, TA made it look simple to just shrug off what happened, but both that was a clear flagrant regardeless of the theatrics.

    Lebron and Wade just demonstrated simple psychology. I wasn’t in the room, but just the amount of words they have to say about flopping is an indictment that they are both well aware of their perception around the league, with the fans of the NBA etc etc; them speaking on it makes them look and ‘be’ defensive. Those are all traits of guilty people.

  • Judah1012

    You said it was difficult for you to appreciate LeBron James’ play after The Decision and it’s the same way now after his comment about flopping. nbk said you should explain yourself basically and wanted to know what you really meant. He said you’re depriving yourself if you’re not going to watch and appreciate the best player playing. You fired back with “Yo momma”. Where was his lack of respect to you? Him saying you’re depriving yourself wasn’t a judgment on you.

  • Judah1012

    Nah, the refs can’t decide for sure each time if a player flops or not unless it’s overly exaggerated. Age doesn’t matter.

  • danpowers

    machiavellianism is basically about “by any means necessary”. or “get the result, no matter how”. by saying flopping is ok as long as it helps to win thats just an analogy by the mechanics of machiavellianism. i admit: on a very abstract level lol

    and dont underestimate the connection and dynamics between public pro sports and society. sports and morals in sports are often a mirror of society and vice versa.

    while many guys do it tho, i dont like it when a player with an idol position like james says something like that in public.

    i dont know if this is just my subjective impression but i dont remember that much flopping back in the 90s. it really appears to me like a development towards a direction i dont like and wanted to express that.

    its not that i am in anger over guys flopping. i just dont like it when i see it, thats it. i also dont think that a player who doesnt flop wants to win less than a guy who does.
    you said it above anyway: the league doesnt like it and most fans neither. we shouldnt have had such a long discussion about that in the first place imo.

  • danpowers

    and 90s ^^

  • danpowers

    did michael jordan gamble on court? lol

  • Judah1012

    Him grabbing his face and then his head as if he didn’t know what was hurting got him fined. That’s what I was talking about. Ginobili’s play wasn’t all that dangerous to me. Let’s not act like Tony Allen is a high flyer who was in the air and Ginobili pulled him down. What tells me that it wasn’t that bad was the fact that Tony was okay enough to think about faking injury.

    They get asked questions. They answer them. They’re not calling reporters over so that they can make statements about flopping. As for their perception around the league? One is the best player in the league. The other is still great even though not as he once was. That’s the perception. As for the fans of the NBA? Not sure if it means that much to them. Definitely not as much as winning does. LeBron actually said earlier this season that he plays for the organization, his family/friends, his teammates, coaching staff and his fans. Some fans of the NBA aren’t his fans.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    constantly.

  • Judah1012

    It’s not up to LeBron to live up to some kind of “idol” status. He does pretty well with his foundation when it comes to having an impact off the floor. All he has to do is win. That’s what he’s trying to do.

  • Judah1012

    Not the 80s anymore. Different players. Different league. Different style of play. Today’s game is a result of what they saw growing up. The 90s were a result of the 80s. Today is a result of the 90s/early 2000s. They didn’t get it from nowhere. They didn’t start doing it on their own.

  • pposse

    thats ridiculous. all indications point to you being the type of guy that would be cool if the spurs and heat went to game 7 and Lebron drew a foul on a three pt shot at the end of the game from Tim Duncan even tho Tim Duncan did not even touch him. And whats worse is the refs would go to the replay to see if it was in actuality a three pt shot so they would get to see over and over the non foul but that he was in three pt territory. You would be over here talking about “all he had to do was win” while every last non heat fan would discredit that finals. that scenario was hypothetical, but the way the game and the flopping is going nowadays, this is clearly probable. A couple players go to move in the clutch is a flop/shot and thats horrible, but you seem to be cool with it

  • danpowers

    i dont disagree with him being a winner and appreciate any rich guy having a foundation to “give back”.
    i dont even see him as a big time flopper, there are guys much worse and to me he appears to be a pretty “clean” player.
    i dont like that comment and the attitude he is demonstrating with that statement (whatever reason he had there). thats really just the only thing i am talking about. i also really dont get why he states such bs anyway.

  • pposse

    so the best player in the L can’t be regarded as one of the L’s best actors/ floppers?! its funny how you gloss over the recinded flagrant on nate rob after replays clearly showed lebron ‘acting’ the call got reversed, why wasn’t he fined for acting?! clear double standards

  • Judah1012

    Yeah, thing about it is I’m not a Heat fan and there are a lot of folks out here who are not Heat fans because they still dislike the Big 3 and mainly LeBron. Exactly when’s the last time you saw him take a 3 to win the game and tried to get fouled instead of going to the basket or taking a 3 point shot straight up and not trying to flop? When’s the last time you saw him flop at the end of the game instead of going to the basket like he did in Game 1 this series or against Detroit in 2007? How about the 3 to beat Orlando in the 2009 Conference Finals? Did he try to flop in either situation? Talk about what actually happens not some scenario you dream up to try to prove whatever point you’re trying to make.

  • pposse

    the point is flopping is bad for the game, unnecessary and unsportsmanlike. Just cause bron didn’t do it, doesn’t mean there have been players to attempt exactly what i was talking about. Check out a Chauncey Billups highlight reel if need be. All i am saying is that is where the league continues to head to, and that crazy scenario can very well happen one day on the grandest stage.

  • Judah1012

    Name a source in the league who’s reported that LeBron’s perceived as a major flopper. Or is that just you? I don’t need to gloss over anything. Nate did some flopping in that series too lol. My point is that so many guys do it but people acting like Wade and James are so much worse is laughable. He wasn’t fined because obviously the league didn’t think it was as bad as Tony Allen’s play.

    The rule wasn’t set up to pick out each and every instance. It was set up for extreme cases. The league isn’t that petty. These are grown men. That wasn’t an extreme case. He did get hit in the face. Watch the play again. Tony got hit. But his reaction afterwards was incredibly exaggerated and had nothing to do with the foul from Ginobili. There’s the difference. It was more of a natural reaction that LeBron sold. You want to see something that’s really not there. No double standard. Regardless of whatever conspiracy theory you may have.

  • pposse

    and thats exactly what happened, He was in the air and Ginobli pulled him down, did you see the play or no? Ginobli grabbed his arm from behind when TA was in the air; he just made it look alright cause of the way he caught himself, but his arm was fully exposed, that could have ended up a lot worse than it was.

  • pposse

    go check out the video Max put up on here some time ago. His flopping is egregious. I’m not saying he’s a major flopper or not, but he should be the last person to talk about flopping…talk about “i dont flop” talk aanything about flopping is what lebron should not be doing lol. Your head doesn’t snap back like that, thats not a natural reaction, that’s what drew the flagrant on nate rob, then ultimately recinded the flagrant from nate rob. That is a text book fine; he tried to manipulate the rules! He aint sell shiet, they rescinded the foul one last time, he got caught with his hand in the cookie jar tryin to get selfish and nothing was done, that is a doble standard.

  • Judah1012

    Nothing to do with sportsmanship. Guys sell calls. Guys flop. On each team. It works. Like a football player who stays on the ground after a hit that didn’t hurt as much as he acts like it did just to take some time. Guys do it.

    I pointed out that LeBron doesn’t do it in game-winning situations, now you agree and say other guys have done it. Why talk about other players when the topic is LeBron and Wade? If you’re talking about other guys, why bring up the LeBron-Duncan scenario? You’re all over the place here. Stick to the topic. When that scenario happens, then we’ll talk. Bringing it up now is pointless.

  • Judah1012

    You talked about perception. I’m not talking about people who post on this site. If there is a perception in the league, as you seem to be suggesting, then show me.

    When guys get hit harder than he was hit, their heads do snap back. It’s a natural motion. If someone hits your face or chin area, where does your head go? It flies back. He didn’t manipulate rules. The only rules that seem to be getting manipulated, to use your word, is yours. Which is why you’re throwing a fit. He did sell it but it didn’t work that time. But it could work with another referee. Which is why, like I said, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. Not a double standard.

  • Judah1012

    I saw the play and I just watched it a few minutes ago again. Like I said, his reaction had absolutely nothing to do with the foul. He landed on his arms and briefly laid on his back. Then he grabbed his face and head when neither one was even touched and neither one hit the floor. What could have happened is different than what actually did happen. What did happen is he was okay enough to think to fake an injury to his face and then his head. Meaning he was fine.

  • pposse

    okay like i said recinded flagrant on nate rob. That was a flop and fine lebron, but did that latter happen?! just go on youtube and type ‘lebron flops’ and see the multiple blatant times he flops. two weeks ago wade was over there talking about he has to wear a mouthpiece against the bulls even tho he’s a gum chewer cause he getting hit in the mouth too much. Its all acting, then every time the camera zooms on wade hes adjusting his stupid mouthpiece that series. What was Wades first words “i dont want to get into it” then he decides to ramble on anyways?! thats what guilty people do! simple psychology, you talk more when you guilty and talk less when your innocent. Bron hasn’t even been on social media or watching the tv since the playoffs started why should he give a damn about flopping?! why, bc he is guilty of it!

  • Judah1012

    What attitude? If Shane Battier or any other player was asked the question and they were going to be honest, they’d give the same answer. Whatever it takes to win. That’s the attitude he has. We can disagree about whether it’s right or wrong, cool. I don’t take issue with it. It’s bs to you, it’s the way the game is played to me. He gave an honest answer.

  • pposse

    and really its not just about lebron and wade, its about the perception of their team..if guys on his team are perceived to be floppers and both of them know it, how else do you answer the question? “there is no place for that in the game, i’m a hypocrite cause i know battier, bosh and all our bigs have to do it in order to compete some nights with other bigs” is that what he’s supposed to say? don’t give me that bs line “its all about winning” u really think he believes that?! i call bs. Its funny tho, the timing of this article, the Spurs are in the Finals, the Heat expect to get there, the Spurs are probably a team with flopping tendencies, this is kind of like the Heat embracing the next round and the flopping that will be going down. Maybe its all a well calculated front by the Heat, either way i just wish they never brought it up.

  • Judah1012

    To you it was a fine. Like I said, the league didn’t set up the rule so that they could be as petty as they wished to be and fine every single flop. Extreme cases where it’s obvious. And really, it’s working. Just because you have some idea about what you think is fair and you think you see a double standard…doesn’t mean the league is interested in trying to appease you or anyone who thinks like you. They want to clean up the game. It’s been pretty clean this postseason. No need to go fining guys just to prove a point to some fan.

    Don’t need some poor psychology lesson from you, it’s not that deep dude. Why should he talk about flopping or care about it?…Because he was asked about it. He answered a question. People answer questions when they’re asked. And look, I didn’t even need psychology to come up with that. And what’s with the guilty talk and the exclamation points? This isn’t court. It’s basketball.

  • danpowers

    just asking: do you like that this is the way the game is played today?

  • Judah1012

    That’s what you would love to hear. Doesn’t mean it’s the truth or what they should say. It’s not about you man. Now you’re telling me what he believes like you’re in his mind.

    Your issue is with the reporter who asked him. Not him for answering the question. Get past it.

  • Max

    Yeah, but saying there would probably be no NBA?
    °
    And they may not have started it, but they are doing it way too much.
    They’re as much to blame as anyone.
    It’s just a cheap tactic and the L really needs to punish them, not just say they will.

  • Max

    Have 1 official at the side who can look at all the replays, who can give a T to the flopper on the next dead ball.

  • Judah1012

    I just love the game. I understand advantages and how players see the game from listening to them talk about it. They copy each other. If they see players getting away with it, they’ll try it out because they’re all in competition and it’s about getting any advantage you can get. If any one team was worse or any one guy was worse than the others, I’d take issue with it. But it’s pretty widespread. And having played and having watched all of these stars playing for 20 years, I’ve seen how the game has changed. All I look for is how many guys do it. The game changes. There will be something going on in the game in the next decade that fans won’t like because it’s not going on right now. There was something going on in the 90s that 80s fans didn’t like I’m sure. So on and so forth.

  • Judah1012

    I’m sure he said it with a smile or at least in a joking way. Don’t need to be Bernie Mac to see the bit of humor in that statement.

    It’s not cheap unless only so many guys or so many teams do it and others don’t. There’s no unfair advantage. Players get sensitive when it gets done to them, but when their teammate does it, they walk to them, dap them up and move on to the next play. Fans get sensitive when it gets done to their team, but when a player on their team does it, they just care about what the final score is. Is what it is.

  • pposse

    lol thats funny. the “just because YOU have some issue..the league doesn’t have to appease YOU” line haha. You responded to my issues, not the league, i’ll defend my position as long as i want to to whomever. Stop using those broad generalizations “its not about you” as some sort of cop out, thats laziness on your part. Psychology is a major part of sports, most people in here don’t want to talk about it, but 90% of the game for these guys is mental. Its all about where these guys minds are at, on any issues dealing with the game, you want to say he answered a question and thats it, but really your trying to sell your opinion as fact and write off my opinion as just an opinion. between me and you, you can’t do that, maybe onlookers will bite, but even if they do, its not like its someone from the league right? so who cares anyways

  • pposse

    Thibs stated post game Lebron flopped (when Nazr pushed him and he went sliding 3 ft and Nazr got kicket out), Nate Rob tweeted that Lebron is a good actor..need i say more?

  • Judah1012

    How is that lazy? It’s the truth. Is it about you? Perhaps the laziness comes from you not being able to understand something. Which is your problem. Does the league communicate with you and hear your every gripe or not?

    When did I try to sell my opinion as a fact? I presented facts like the league doesn’t care about what you nor I say. I said he answered a question which is what really happened. You’ve run out of things to say. Did you not say that what he said was bs and he doesn’t believe it…so who’s really trying to offer their opinion as facts here? Did you not say that? Look at you trying to tell me what LeBron is really thinking. Nice.

  • Judah1012

    Yes. That’s just two guys. Who were a part of a team that was in the process of losing to the Heat in the playoffs. Find more.

  • danpowers

    we would have less of this if guys who stay on the ground too long without being injured or just flop would be forced to wear a pink skirt for the rest of the game.

  • shockexchange

    Or just hire more refs who have actually played ball before. A lot of refs understand the rule book, but don’t understand “the game within the game.” At some point, if floppers are allowed to carry on unchecked, eventually they will gain an advantage at the expense of players who don’t flop.

  • shockexchange

    These guys are complaining (D. Wade, Horry Jr, Tony Parker to name a few) almost each time they drive to the basket and don’t get a call. The yelling, stomping and hand waving has gotten way out of control. You never saw guys complain like that back in the day. And if the refs allow it, eventually the crybabies are going to get calls they’re not supposed to get just due to constant nagging.

    And by the way, the “LeBron Rules” is the most important doctrine in the past 20 years … just the facts. And when the Shock Exchange mentions “Horry Jr” how do you know who he’s referring to?

  • danpowers

    every decade had its bright and dark sides. i love tough d but the lack of scoring in the late 90s and early 00s was really annoying. on the other hand rough play in the 90s was just very entertaining. i loved basketball in a soccer/football dominated society above all because basketball didnt have that backstabbing philosophy that comes when guys go into games with that “get the w no matter how” (as long as no matter how includes flopping) if that flopping development was a nice byproduct of our sport the league wouldnt take action against it.

    there are aspects imo that can be argued. it took me some time to cope with zone d in the nba, the abolition of hand checking or the technical foul policy. now i see that those things helped the game to get more interesting again after that scoring drought of the late 90s/early 00s.

    but when it comes to flopping i agree with ppose that this kind of getting a competitive advantage is unsportsmen like. im giving the league / stern thumbs up for adressing that problem and hope that we will see even harsher punishment on flops next season for the sake of the game we all love.

    i dont know how many soccer/football games you watched so far. just watch a handful and tell me if this is what you want the nba to be like. because this is where we are headed if the development of flopping continues.

  • pposse

    no i just realized that i might just be speaking to the guy who is stuck trying to get past level 7 in mario 3 when all you have to do is warp to level 8. Your funny talking about problems and discrediting what people are saying cause they didn’t reach out to the league lol shame on you boy. He more than answered a questions he elaborated, and he should have known better.

  • pposse

    the foul was flagrant, the refs were able to view the play again, they could have rescinded the call, but they didn’t. You really think the refs viewed all that extra curricular mumbo jumbo over and over on replay from tony allen and that made them stick to the ruling as flagrant?! It was a flagrant cause ginobli made zero play on the ball and made a dangerous move for no good reason, nothing else nothing more.

  • pposse

    no, you asked me to find legit sources and i did, i need not find you no more. i just brought you a cookie and now you asking for milk lol

  • Mars

    Look at your boy Lebron in the background… making sure Tony gets a helping hand. Gasol looking like ‘this is some flopping bull****’.

  • Judah1012

    Steve Kerr and Reggie Miller tonight: “If you can get away with it, why not do it? It’s gamesmanship. It’s not on you. It’s on the referees to call it.”

  • Judah1012

    Who’s talking about the foul? I’m talking about his reaction after the foul. It was a flagrant but not nearly as dangerous as you’re making it out to be. He wasn’t even in the air that high. That’s the point. A simple flagrant 1 because he didn’t make a play on the ball. No big deal.

  • Noompsi

    Agreed. We need an All flopping team.

    1. D Fisher
    2. D Wade
    3. R.Miller
    4. LBJ
    5. V Divac

  • Noompsi

    Wow dude. Well informed, and you stick it to the tools… where did you come from??

  • Noompsi

    In this regard, on this statement, I agree with DPowers. I liked LeBron as a rookie, and I was a toss up for ROY between Melo and James. I then watched Bron versus the East for years and liked his game, however after watching his exodus to Miami and the way he was as a young man I began to lose interest because of his attitude, his showing off and his overall demeanour. Same thing happened with Kobe in LA. Because of the way he acted and the whole crown tattoo thing.
    Then Wade’s and Bron’s reaction to Nowitski’s sickness… sickening in itself. It was so good to see them lose that year to Dallas.

    Now Bron has won one (in a lock-out season surrounded by all-stars) and everyone is acting like he’s the best ever, like we are watching history or something. I’ve watched every playoff Heat game thus far and I gotta tell you he’s good… but I’ve seen better.

  • DJR84

    You forgot Ginobili – he was the original. Paul Pierce is also excellent at “selling calls” when he’s got the ball in his hands.

  • That Dude

    Get off nbk’s dick and stop patrolling the message boards.

  • Bandwagonfan

    Do you realize lebrn has so many good moves and passes? Also he has a great body balance and power, he also can drive it fast with dribble. That makes me like him. 3or 4 flops a game wont change that. Unless he flops more than his field goal made

  • JL

    Exactly. Trying to do it right every time real time and with 20 different things happening at the same time with the crowd in your ear. Good luck. I hate them missing it, but it’s very hard to get right with the current refereeing system.

  • JL

    Lebron may be the best player in the NBA today, but without the his minions (Wade, Bosh, Battier, Chalmers) flopping around like salmon, his team’s chances of winning increases from when they are not flopping. It takes possessions away from the other team. So of course he likes it. He won’t admit to it. Nobody does when they do something wrong (at least publicly). It’s like if you jaywalked this afternoon. Would you admit it to a reporter? Would you go on record and say you were going 90 on a 65 zone? Yeah, didn’t think so. I’m not defending him as a person, since I personally don’t like flopping, but thinking about their reasons you can understand why it’s like this.

  • Anton
  • Max

    But the league can do something about it.
    They said they would punish floppers, I haven’t seen alot of punishing.
    If they punish them, atleast there won’t be as much flops as there are right now.
    I’m ok with players throwing their arms up to get the foul call and stuff, but the falling when there is no contact at all needs to go.

  • Max

    Yeah, but I think it’s really hard to see if someonbe is flopping or not when you see it happening before you, unless you’re very bad at hiding it, like CP3.

  • Max

    Classic Lebron flop with the up and coming double flop.

  • underdog

    Well, trying to injure other players – for example – is a bad thing imo, because every player in the league is trying to make a living out of his game. Flops are of course are not that bad, they just make the whole league and the game itself look bad…

  • danpowers

    i never said that i didnt appreciate his game or that he wasnt an amazing player. just said that coz he finds flopping ok which i hate makes it harder for me to liike his game. i aint a quitter so i if smth is hard doesnt mean i cant do it lol

  • danpowers

    lol how are you sitting in front of your screen watching basketball games? like a robot with no emotions at all? sorry mate, if i couldnt feel any emotions about the game i wouldnt see any reason to follow it anymore.

  • Bandwagonfan

    Youre just making excuses. Its not like few flops could affect the game that much. Late in game the refs will do some reviews. Unless its like before with his flop on george. It was so overreacting’ and i am agree that he really flop hard.

  • danpowers

    guys, i aint a native speaker, but you are. i never wrote that i dont appreciate lebron james game. i obviously stated that his attitude makes it difficult for me to appreciate his play. just because something is difficult doesnt mean its impossible.

    and by the way… the humorous note in that initial comment should be obvious by starting the statement “thank you lebron!!!” the only thing i really said there was that i hate flopping. not that i dont like his game anymore.

    if he doesnt understand it doesnt mean im depriving myself. at least telling someone to slap himself aint that respectful imo. that actually is judging smbdy n there is a history of him getting on my d*ck for all i state for what ever reason as the only guy in that board here anyway. so thats why its not really possible for me anymore to take his replies to me serious.

  • danpowers

    both should have been forced to wear pink skirts for the remainder of the game

  • danpowers

    im just explaining english for slow readers because i am such a nice guy. no need to make excuses for what i say.
    refs are only allowed to review flagrant foul calls weather it was a flagrant 1, 2 or regular foul, but not if it was a flop or not. so whats your point with the reviews? the reviews dont have anything to do with flopping. the league is monitoring games afterwards to look at flops which doesnt have any affect on games.

  • danpowers

    all nba flop 1st
    G m. ginobili
    G r. miller
    F s. battier
    F b. griffin
    C b. laimbeer

    all nba flop 2nd
    G l. stephenson
    G d. fisher
    F r. evans
    F c. bosh
    C v. divac

    its a shame prigioni just entered the league. i think he had the potentially to be the biggest flopper of all time.

  • danpowers

    they just need to do a better job of monitoring that. i dont really know how it works. if they only monitor flops that led to calls or also flops that stood uncalled. i see many un-punished flops. that needs to be pursued much much harder.

  • danpowers

    thats hy the league really needs to pursue that much harder. too much of that stays uncalled

  • shockexchange

    In LeBron’s case, in the past he got hit so much and fouls were not called because of his physicality. Outside of Shaq or Wilt, he has to be the toughest guy to officiate in the history of he L. I think that’s why he started flopping more. Officials can punish a guy for flopping simply by not giving him any calls later on obvious fouls.

  • danpowers

    i dont have any issues with a guy selling body contact to get calls when there actually is contact. especially in lebrons case because of exactly what you just said.
    what i really hate is that attitude to use flops as a legit mean to win a game because this is backstabbing bs.
    plays like anton’s post here: http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18p4oblhv9c83gif/ku-xlarge.gif
    i think it would be enough if the league watches film of games afterwards and really punishes any obvious flop that happens. no warnings, just instantly fines and one game ban for each flop. we would have a clean game they day they’d handle flopping that way.

  • shockexchange

    Officials have to punish this type of behavior in game as well. It’s a clear attempt to show up the official. It’s similar to that “travel” The Kang committed during that winning lay up in Game 1. He took 5 steps, but only dribbled the ball once. After he scored, everybody was celebrating while The Kang was doing “the Walk of Shame.” And people were on here tryna argue with the Shock Exchange that he didn’t travel.

  • danpowers

    well, in the nba they just call one out of ten travelling violations at best. its like that ever since. i guess they do that to give us the fans more dunks to cheer about. it often hurts the eyes of those who truly love the game tho, but i think that this issue is not as urgent as the flopping problem.

  • Judah1012

    So you just don’t have anything intelligent to say at all huh?

  • Judah1012

    The game changes. Change with it or stop watching it. Your choice. Jordan asked for calls and complained about calls. No different now.

  • shockexchange

    Agreed. It’s similar because that “travel” and the flopping is not a happenstance. It’s a concerted effort to gain an advantage.

  • Judah1012

    Not a lot of flopping this postseason and really not a lot during the regular season either. The league made the rules not because they wanted to fine people but just so that players would know that it was possible to get fined. But they’re smart. They know exactly what the rules are. They know the referees and what they will or will not call very well. I’m sure some of them could care less about getting fined $5,000 especially the superstar level players…what’s $5K to them really? So they’ll risk it and if it works, it works. And if it doesn’t and they get fined, no big deal.

  • shockexchange

    Of course guys complained about calls back in the day. But you can’t tell if a guy has a legitimate complaint or if he’s simply “gaming” the ref. At some point it crosses the line of “unsportsmanlike conduct,” and the last time the Shock Exchange checked, unsportsmanlike conduct was still part of the rule book. There’s already a place of constant whining, stomping of the feet and finger waving – it’s called the WWF.

  • Judah1012

    You just have to know how much of a joke you really are. You refer to yourself in the 3rd person too? You must get ridiculed a lot on here.

    Definitely not a travel on that game-winner, what exactly were you watching? Flopping doesn’t show up referees. It forces them to make a decision which isn’t showing them up. If they call it, they call it. If not, then move on. The best way to stop it during gameplay is to just not call a foul when a player flops like with this play.

  • Judah1012

    No, it doesn’t. That has nothing to do with the fans so it really doesn’t matter what you or I think about them doing it. It’s between the players and the referees. If they can plant an idea in a referee’s mind about something to look for, they’ll do it. There’s no such line. It’s just asking for calls. And players who do it in a way that shows up the referee get technical fouls called on them. Some people just look for things to be upset about. Just enjoy the game dude.

  • shockexchange

    Before you address the Shock Exchange, learn the game first. Otherwise, go shove off.

  • Judah1012

    How did he show off? People should remember that that concert they had was for Miami Heat fans. It wasn’t like it was broadcast on ESPN for the world to see. The arena was full of Heat fans and they had just landed LeBron James, D-Wade and Chris Bosh. So they wanted to celebrate. The only mistake that was made was the ESPN show. And that resulted in millions of dollars going to the Boys and Girls Club.

    That crown tattoo that Kobe has also has his wife’s name under it. So what’s your issue with that? And really, Kobe’s behavior since Colorado has been pretty consistent. He’s as open and honest as he’s ever been and it started after that issue was over and done with.

    LeBron and Wade were wrong for mocking Dirk, but LeBron’s attitude has changed considerably since 2011. It started right after they lost and he decided to play in all of those summer pickup games right in front of the people who were making fun of him for how he played in the Finals. He gained a lot of respect back. As for the championship he won and how people see him now, you’re wrong. Jordan had Pippen. Magic and Larry had Hall of Famers with them. So are we going to put asterisks on their championships too? Kobe had Shaq. Shaq had Kobe and D-Wade. Get the pattern here? As for the lockout thing, I didn’t hear everyone talking about how the Spurs championship in 99 wasn’t all that special because it was a lockout season. So why now? Who said LeBron was the best ever? All I’ve heard on a consistent basis is he’s the best now. Which is true.

  • Judah1012

    He should have known better? So now you’re wiser than he is? Fans are really funny when they talk as if they know better than the players do and could educate them on what answers to give. Or when fans talk about how soft players are now as if they’d do so much better and be tougher if they were playing themselves. Don’t get it twisted dude. How he answered the question is his business and his alone. Don’t be so sensitive.

  • Judah1012

    The NBA isn’t going to be like soccer/football. You shouldn’t fear that. There’s almost a flop on every foul called in soccer matches. Players laying on the ground grabbing their legs as if they’ve just been shot. I’ve been watching soccer also for a good 20 years. The NBA will never get to that point.

    The only reason you think it’s unsportsmanlike is because you don’t like watching it. Which is your right to dislike it. But it’s not unsportsmanlike to opposing players because, like I said, a lot of them do it. I agree with Steve and Reggie. Leave it up to the refs to call it.

  • Judah1012

    Again, all you have is one dude is agrees with you on Wade. Congratulations. Just opinions dude. No right or wrong. What you were hoping to demonstrate didn’t get demonstrated. All you showed is you found a guy who agrees with you. Ask James Harden about who is dirtier between Wade and World Peace. You need more than 1 guy to demonstrate that Wade and LeBron are widely seen as cheaters because the word “wide” implies that more than 1 person has that opinion in the league about them. If it’s so weak to you, I’d like to see you play against either one of them. Guard 6’8 250 pound LeBron or 6’4 220 pound Wade and tell me how weak they are.

  • Judah1012

    Because you’re so much tougher than they are, right? Guys are funny when they talk about how soft a player is just to make themselves feel good while watching at home knowing they’ll never be as talented and skilled as these guys are. Jealousy.

  • shockexchange

    It’s hard to enjoy the game when guys are cryin’ to the refs like Ric %$&*^%$ Flair after every play. And when the fugazziness gets out of hand – like the WWF stunts the Bulls pulled against the Heat – the Shock Exchange tunes out.

  • Judah1012

    The thing is..just because it’s wrong to you doesn’t mean it’s wrong period. You just don’t like seeing it.

  • Judah1012

    Coming from a dude who calls the 2nd best SG ever Horry Jr? Yeah, I’m the one who needs to learn the game lol.

  • Judah1012

    Then stop watching. It’s not up to the players to make you happy by not asking for calls. No one cares about you tuning out. Millions more are tuning in. The game keeps going. The league keeps moving. And the money keeps flowing. With or without you. You’re not a big deal dude. Even on here. By referring to yourself in the 3rd person you don’t make yourself important. Not sure the league would even care about the viewership of a dude who can’t appreciate Kobe Bryant.

  • shockexchange

    This comments sums up why you should try to learn the game first before tryna back talk the Shock Exchange.

  • pposse

    all this, your latest comment has proven is that your a ‘Yes Man’. Your reaction to anything Lebron or any other player in the league does: ..”yes Lebron go ahead, your right, your always right” You would have fit right in with the goons MIke Tyson had around him throughout his professional career.

  • Judah1012

    This comment shows how you have nothing of substance to say so you just refer to yourself in the 3rd person. Going by your comments here, it doesn’t take much to know more than you about the game. It’s obvious basketball just isn’t your thing.

  • Judah1012

    Nah, your reaction acting like you could advise him on how to answer questions based solely on what you want to hear from him shows how out of your mind you are.

  • danpowers

    just because many do it, doesnt make it right imo. to me thats not a legit argument, just to let it happen because many do it.

  • danpowers

    true that

  • Judah1012

    Doesn’t have to be okay with fans. The game is played between teams who can and will do whatever they need to do to win and the refs decide what they will and won’t let go. The game within the game that former players talk about. Doesn’t matter whether we think it’s right or not. The outcome of these games mean nothing to us really. May get happy or upset if your team wins or loses. But it means a lot to those actually involved. They’re trying to win, not look tough to fans watching by not flopping.

  • pposse

    YES MAAAAAN! ask yourself this, has there ever even been a time when you disagreed with a superstar ball player?

    I’m an alien bro im outta this world…

  • shockexchange

    “It’s obvious basketball just isn’t your thing.” That may or may not be true. However, that fact doesn’t negate the fact that the flopping has gotten out of hand crosses the line of being unsportsmanlike.

  • danpowers

    my both sports are boxing and basketball. ive had a more successful career in the first of both but always had more love for basketball. dont take me as a fat fanboy sitting on his couch with popcorn and a coke calling out others to be phony while never having achieved anything myself.
    i appreciate great performance and feel absolutely no jealousy for those who made it to the biggest stage, i’m rather happy for them.
    i actually find scenes like this here so ungraceful because thats two tough guys there acting like (insert any insult that suits you well here). thats backstabbing behaviour, i dont want to see that in any sports.

    and i should insert a disclaimer for posting in that section here “dont take my trash talk 100% serious”

  • Judah1012

    Still haven’t responded with any substance at all really. The only fact is you don’t like seeing it. The only unsportsmanlike line is the one you created. No player cares about some line a fan creates in their own mind. The referees set the only line that truly matters and players deal with it.

  • danpowers

    having the own voice be heard makes more sense than to stop watching. we are indirectly paying all these guys there doing their thing. the reason why the league implemented the flopping rules and adressed the topic is because they know that. trust me, if the sports gets too phony, the league will lose audience.

  • Judah1012

    For every fan who doesn’t like watching it or would threaten to stop, there are two fans who don’t care and will keep watching.

  • shockexchange

    The only difference between pro basketball and pro wrestling is that basketball is “unscripted,” while the WWF is known fugazziness for entertainment purposes. If you let these guys keep faking, it loses a lot of its appeal.

  • danpowers

    i shouldnt? but i do! can you assure me of that? guarantee me that? i cant hold you accountable for that lol

    id rather express my disgust about flopping and count on millions of other fans to do the same. i dont know if this actually has an affect on nba policy. it would just suprise me if it wouldnt coz it is common for big companies to listen to its costumers requests.

    it actually IS unsportsmanlike. we always had flopping in the league but not to todays extent and this is exactly one of the reasons why stern addressed the issue and i hope that they take it a bit further next season.

  • Dfrance

    How could you not have CP3 and Harden on either of these teams???

  • Max

    If they would punish every flop, it wouldn’t just be 5k, alot of players would have allready been suspended for a game.
    And almost every other game there has been a flop in the post season, especially in the east.
    And just scroll down a little lol

  • shockexchange

    A lot of those fans who will keep watching fugazziness are “fair weather” fans. Somebody told them the NBA is hot and that attending games, and making Horry Jr a conversation piece at dinner parties is cool. These are the same people still wearing Fubu and Karl Khani, thinking they’re fly. Eventually, these fans will move on to something else. Without knowledgeable, hard core fans like the Shock Exchange, the L won’t survive long-term. NBA brass knows this.

  • Judah1012

    Wait, fans who just love the game and will watch it only because of that regardless of what they think is right or wrong are “fair weather” fans? Do you think about what you type before you type it or no? You lose respectability every time you refer to Kobe as Horry Jr. The rest of your comment doesn’t even deserve to be read.

  • shockexchange

    How do you know who the Shock Exchange is referring to when he says “Horry Jr.” You naturally assume he’s referring to Kobe. That’s mad disrespectful to Kobe son.

  • Pingback: SLAM ONLINE | » Indiana Pacers Fans Chant ‘Beat the Floppers’ (VIDEO)

  • danpowers

    thats still an overall loss potentionally which would be stupid to ignore. but they dont coz they take action so i dont get your point here.
    even the commissioner labeled flopping as unsportsmenlike.

  • Lloyd

    Flopping something out of nothing is unsportsmanlike. If there’s a legitimate foul and you “sell it”, sure, but regardless techs won’t do anything. Jump straight to the bigger fines/suspensions.

  • danpowers

    yeah that was a tough one and not an easy decission. maybe as honorable mentions or better the all nba flop 3rd team:

    G c.paul
    G j. harden
    F t. allen
    F d. rodman
    C p. gasol

  • Lloyd

    Going to a ref and saying, “this guy keeps doing this, watch for it”, is completely different than a guy committing an obvious foul or not getting fouled AT ALL and still yelling, jumping up and down, whining in the middle of a live action. That’s not “asking”. When I played in high school, even if the refs missed a blatant call or screwed something up in a major way, our coach wouldn’t allow us to lobby the refs about it. He told us to play our game, and he would deal with the refs. That’s part of his job description.

    There was a play in the Bulls/Heat series that Lebron was called for a foul, he screamed and tried to look all confused, yelled at the referees, and they retracted the frikkin call. Not changed the foul, not called it on a different person, but they literally called it out of bounds instead. That’s not right and we as fans of the NBA, and on a larger scale, the game of basketball, don’t have to sit quietly and accept it as “part of the game”. It’s not. It’s an integrity thing, and speaks more about the players who do it rather than the fans who hate it. As lovers of the game and as men in general, suck the integrity out of anything we do and it becomes petty and pointless.

  • Bandwagonfan

    I just want to argue, i thought people can argue without insulting each other. Well, a flop wouldnt bee to go as far as a flagrant 2 . Even a flagrant itself Is called if the one who fouled initiate the move with intention. Anyway so a versatile forward that is so big yet still counted to be one of the fastest is suck because he flop ?

  • shockexchange

    Is that you Horry Jr?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    of course i have emotions. but i don’t care about each player as a person. i have no emotional connection to their lives or the way they conduct themselves. i think some guys are ridiculous, pompous, crazy, or whatever, but that doesn’t change how i view them as basketball player’s. for instance i think Lebron whines too much, but that doesn’t change that he is quite obviously the best basketball player on earth. And right now, he’s as good as any player has been since Jordan retired. Probably better. I’m not going to let my disapproval about how he conducts himself deprive me of watching the best basketball player of the last 20 years.

  • Max

    Bron flops alot when there is no contact aswell.

  • Max

    You must flop alot.
    It’s not ok to do, the L should do something about it.

  • Max

    It does mean something if you put money on the games.

  • danpowers

    why do you think i would see him different than you do?

    normally there is a little trash talk in how i put my comments here, but i still enjoy watching him play.

    his attitude (or the attitude he shows to the public / the way how he seems to be, dont know him personally) or at least some of his comments leave a bitter aftertaste for me like “why does it has to be him beingh the best out there?” or “i would find it nice if the greatest player out there could show some more personal greatness”. that doesnt change that i enjoy it to see him play and am aware of the fact that this is the best ball i have seen since jordan. its still a joy to watch james play, no doubt. i never said i wouldnt enjoy watching him.

  • danpowers

    please take my apologies, had a rough night yesterday.
    i never said that james sucks. to me flopping is classless thats why i expressed that i dont like how james publicly legitimates flopping.
    i understood you that way that you thought that refs were able to get a review to see weather a player flopped or not, which they are not allowed to. i wish they could do that tho.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    “thanks bron, for making it so difficult to appreciate your game”
    -
    clearly you see him differently than i do. i don’t see ANY player that way.
    .
    and that’s why i said to slap yourself. is this just you not knowing the english language that well, and jumbling up what you are saying?

  • danpowers

    man thats trash talk. do i have to put a disclaimer under those posts “dont take it 100% serious”? or “beware foreigner typing”?

    even if you take every word 100% serious: i still appreciate his game for gods sake! i didnt type that i dont do that anymore. simple logic: finding it difficult to appreciate smth someone does doesnt necessarily lead to not not appreciating him/her anymore.

    the guys on the court are not just products and walking figures to me. same with lance stephenson or jason kidd. when i read about them reportedly beating women it feels a little strange to cheer for them when they play ball. even though i think bot are great players and fun to watch.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    trash talk? who are you trash talking? what are you talking about? you are typing words that don’t reflect your opinion? ok, i’ll just treat you the same way i treat shock exchange, the seed, and everyone else who just types up nonsense with no actual purpose or direction.

    .what are you talking about cheering for players? respecting a guys abilities as a basketball player has absolutely nothing to do with rooting for guys. man, you just take an idea and then run to the most extreme possible position with it.

    .
    i’ll leave you alone and treat you like all the other people here who just say nonsense to say nonsense. my bad.

  • danpowers

    there is always a little bit of serious opinion in most jokes or trash, but i dont see any necessity to keep it all a 100% dead serious in here.

    thats just how you chose to understand me or maybe the results of how what i translate into english appears like, but not what i mean. and i dont see too many people round here getting me wrong or having a problem with what i type.

    i even respected brons game when he was the decision-villain. to me “making it difficult to appreciate one’s game” is about rooting.

    not respecting a player’s game who is obviously a great player for personal reasons is something beyond my understanding and not what i meant. then put my sentense as “he makes it difficult to root for him by saying stuff like that”.

    to me there is a difference between saying nonsense to say nonsense and talking about basketball with a little “;)” between the lines every once in a while.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    appreciate and respect are synonyms.

    .

    appreciate and root are not related.

  • danpowers

    you really make me work here on the linguistic end man. just noted it in my vocabulary

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i think improving your ability to use language is something everyone needs to work on. sh*t you are bilingual, i’m very impressed by that. but that isn’t going to stop me from demanding you properly use this language.
    .
    and if i didn’t have any respect for you i wouldn’t address you when you say nonsense. if you haven’t noticed, i’m usually the main person here calling people out when they say something off. i don’t think you should be surprised that it is me who normally points out the problem.

  • Conor

    I said flopping is weak. Are you illiterate?

    The link provided one advocate for the “Wade is dirty” camp… it just so happens to come from CBS, whose articles are broadcast to millions of people. They would not have published it if there wasn’t a market of both likeminded & opposant-minded people to delve into. 1+1=2, champ.

  • Conor

    *have been

  • danpowers

    if it was just bilungual. you should read that sh*t i got goin on in spanish or swahili lol.

    i got your point, even though i respond a little rude every once in a while.
    it just feels sometimes like you got some kind of charlie murphy – rick james thing going on with me for whatever reason lol

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    nah. i got no grudges with anyone. i just address things with the people i feel can or eventually can have the ability to re-examine. you just happen to say things like that on a pretty regular basis lol

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    how many languages do you speak?

  • danpowers

    true, i love wasting some time on the internet and so i like striking headlines that lead to… inspirited exchange which is often quite fruitful lol

  • Judah1012

    That’s nice. As I said, all you did was find a guy who agrees. Don’t care who wrote it or how many people read what he wrote. ESPN broadcasts to a lot of people so is everyone supposed to just agree with what their analysts say? Come on dude. Again, I can find a guy who writes to a lot of people who says that there is another player who’s the dirtiest player in the league. Your little article means nothing.

  • Judah1012

    That’s the fault of the moron who does that. The players shouldn’t care about that either.

  • Judah1012

    To you, it’s not okay. Doesn’t mean it’s just not okay. Get over yourself. It’s an issue for the league to deal with. As long as referees can’t catch everything, guys will keep doing it and they should. Whether people like seeing it or not.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    ahh that’s cute. you think gambling is only about what takes place in a casino.

  • danpowers

    i dont want to hear about him having placed bets on his own games lol

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    LOL no you don’t get it. He gambled all the time (passing lanes, contested jumpers, punching teammates hoping it helps). It’s part of what made him so great. I was just drawing a parallel to what you said. Wasn’t something for you to take seriously.
    .
    I don’t actually care about gambling. or anything any of these players do.

  • danpowers

    3 fluent and 2 beginner. why?

  • danpowers

    i didnt expect you to make a joke, that really caught me off guard lol

  • Max

    But it’s easily fixed if they suspend you for 1 game after a flop.
    It’s unfair for teams who don’t flop.

  • Judah1012

    Find one team with no flopping players. Good luck.

  • Max

    as much.
    It’s unfair for teams who don’t flop as much.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Cuz that’s crazy to me man. One language is hard enugh

  • danpowers

    indeed, one is normally hard enough. i am obviously not a genius tho, that just comes with the territory as i studied some interdisciplinary stuff about the atlantic space. i suck a*s big time at mathematics. n thats really nothing, i often work with african who speak up to 10 languages and they aint even scholars, thats really crazy and i’ll never get how they are able to manage that lol

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    yeah i actually had the priviledge of knowing some of the Sudanese “lost boys” idk if you’ve heard of them, but some of those kids spoke at least 8 languages when they came to the US. I’ve always been impressed by multi-linguists or whatever they are called.
    .
    And genius is subjective, we are all genius’ in one way or another.

  • Pingback: SLAM ONLINE | » LeBron James, Lance Stephenson and David West Fined for Game 4 Flops (VIDEO)

  • danpowers

    yup, they are the worst battle traumatized group that has ever been officially examined. i didnt get in touch with them personally but read some publications about them.

    was referring to the colloquial notion of the term, lets not get fussy here lol

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    haha i know. but i used to actually feel like intelligence was exclusive to genius. so now i just like to practice not restating that opinion

  • danpowers

    aight. lets just leave it like that then

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