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Friday, October 11th, 2013 at 4:15 pm  |  228 responses

Horace Grant Says Michael Jordan Would Average 45 Points in Today’s NBA


Former Chicago Bulls forward Horace Grant is in Rio De Janeiro as an NBA ambassador. Grant, when asked about today’s League, claims that Michael Jordan would score about 45 per night (Horace also strongly disagrees with Scottie Pippen’s belief that LeBron James could be the best of all time.) Per the Chicago Tribune: “Asked if the Miami Heat could compete with his Bulls’ teams, Grant smiled. ‘We would’ve kicked their (butts),’ he said. Then Grant added a caveat. ‘No, you can’t compare (eras),’ he said. ‘The rules have changed so much from our days and the Heat’s days. It was more physical back then. Today you can run around without getting touched. Today, Michael Jordan would average about 45 points.’ Speaking of Jordan, Grant’s former teammate and close friend, Scottie Pippen, created a stir in 2011 when he called Jordan the greatest scorer ever but added this kicker. ‘I may go as far as to say LeBron James may be the greatest player to ever play the game because he is so potent offensively that not only can he score at will but he keeps everybody involved,’ Pippen told ESPN Radio then. Pippen later tried to clarify his comments. Grant, ahem, helped him on Friday. ‘Scottie was really drinking that day when he said that,’ Grant said, drawing laughter. ‘You can’t compare anybody to Michael. You can compare, but Michael is the best player I’ve ever seen or ever played against. Not taking anything away from Kobe (Bryant) or Lebron or Carmelo (Anthony) or even DRose, but wait until those guys get through playing. Then you can say compare the two careers.’”

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  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    yeah but even if MJ average 50 a game would his team win a title if he played on the lakers kobe had when he went for that 40 pg streak?

  • Saleem Rainman

    I’d have to agree, if he could go for(what was it? 35? 36? that highest point season of his?) in a league where hand checking was allowed and droppin ppl on their azzes was the name of the game…40-45(which wud only be liek 3-4 more points than he already did average) isnt exactly out of the question imo, the league is much more perimiter player friendly…

  • Guest

    It was 37 PPG

  • Guest

    AND THAT IS TRUE….100% …MICHAEL JORDAN IS, WAS & WILL FOREVER BE THE GREATEST PLAYER OF ALL-TIME… PEOPLE NEED TO STOP ACTING LIKE THEY FORGOT HOW COLD HE REALLY REALLY WAS…. STRAIGHT UP!!!!

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    he could but i mean couldn’t lebron if he decided not to pass

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    But it’s such a general statement. It really depends on his squad and title aspirations.

  • Junior Taylor

    Can we stop with this “MJ would avg. 45 today” nonsense? If many people consider Kobe to be the closet thing to MJ and the most KB ever averaged was 35ppg, what makes people think that MJ would avg. 45ppg? So that means MJ is that much better of a scorer (10 more points to be exact) than Kobe. I find that hard to believe given that the gap between MJ and Kobe isn’t that significant.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    its such a general statement. I don’t think you can take it seriously. Even if jordan played on the lakers when kobe was getting 40 and did average 45 he still wouldn’t have won a title.

  • Cortez Mack

    This is getting ridiculous.

    I am getting really close to being sick of “Jordan would average (insert ridiculous number here)”.

    I watched those 80′s and 90′s games in real time and I still watch some of them now. Jordan WAS NOT getting mauled on the perimeter (neither was anyone else). Nor was he stoically destroying all competition while ignoring tough d and hard fouls.

    He spent a significant amount of time begging for fouls and crying about getting hit.

    The main difference was that the secondary defender would make sure you did not get a shot up sometimes by committing an obvious “not a play on the ball foul” without getting suspended or points towards and suspension.

  • Jay Cutler

    Doubtful. Did you see LeBron tentatively playing against Kawhi?

    When there are trees in the middle and his confidence in his jumper evaporates (as it often does), he becomes a completely unrecognizable human.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    Yeah the 80s and 90s had stronger more physical post presence. How would jordan fare if he played on that lakers team with kobe had 10 40 ppg games

  • cbranson05

    the thing with kobe and mj is that kobe isnt as disciplined as mj was. he doesnt get the ball and make a decision. actually thats most players nowadays, which is why post play has eroded. to be a good post player u do your work early, get the ball and make a quick move, but u also need good post feeding which is also a lost art. the game is better and worse depending on the areas, but it is more of a free-lancing strictly perimeter players beating u off the dribble type of game now

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    so your saying that he makes assists because he can’t score?

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    kobe is more disciplined than jordan. Jordan has that extra abandonment to reality that allows him to go to extremes which kobe can’t. Its sort of like Goku and vegeta.. kobe is vegeta and goku michael. Kobe works works works and only gets so far but michael had that ability to get to the next level w/o as much work. Kobe has worked more hours than jordan definitely. he doesn’t party gamble waste time kobe stays in the gym and thats the truth. Michael had a stronger desire and natural ability.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    it’s stupid nonsense. Michael Jordan played in the illegal defense era.
    .
    sorry everyone, but there has never been a more Michael Jordan friendly era in basketball history.
    .
    hand checking did jack sh*t to slow that dude down, he is the guy who invented strength training among perimeter players. he was way way way ahead of his time physically.
    .
    plus the pace. oooooooh the pace.

    —- the pace of play in 1989 was 100.6
    —— the pace of play in 2013 was 92.0

    in 1989 there was 9 teams averaging over 110ppg, (4 of which over 115ppg)
    in 2013 there was 0 teams averaging over 110ppg,

    in 2013 11 teams averaged over 100
    in 1989, out of 25 teams, 24 averaged over 103

    Sorry, but it’s just stupid to think Jordan would average that many points. If even more than he did in the first place.

  • Dagger

    To me, the bigger reality is simple: given the amount of possessions in today’s game, and the ways in which most defenses can now adjust, it’s really improbable that someone scoring 45 points/game would actually help a team.

    On that note: when Jordan started winning, his scoring average went down, not up. Playing better is not always about scoring more points.

  • aceon

    Did you see Lebron against the Pistons in 06 or 07? 17 straight by himself in the fourth to bring the Cavs back for the win. That’s the closest we’ve ever seem him in gunner mode and you saw the results. Just because he doesn’t want to do it all the time doesn’t mean he can’t.

  • Dagger

    Contrary to popular opinion, Jordan had his struggles against elite defenders. Yes, he often prevailed, but great players can struggle against great defenders. And Lebron had the league’s best midrange jumper last year.

  • bike

    Nah. Defense, both individual in team, keeps improving overall in the nba. I know everyone thinks today’s players are candy canes compared to the 80′s and 90′s but there are simply a higher percentage of athletic defenders now compared to then.

  • The Seed

    Consign

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    do some research.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    in reality, it is much more likely that if Jordan played in this era, he wouldn’t have a career average above 30.

  • fruizm

    dropping knowledge!

  • Saleem Rainman

    okay, not 45, but why not 40? I get that defences are different now, there are zones and all that stuff, but the reason they got rid of hand checking was so that there would be higher scoring games, spevifically easier scoring for perimeter players, was it not? Just my opinion though.

  • Slick Ric

    lol…….don’t be stupid now. * reaches for knife*

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    yes, because scoring is so much lower……..they were just trying to get scoring back to the level it was in Jordan’s day. which featured much much worse defenses.
    .
    there is absolutely no reason to think Jordan could average as much as he did then. let alone more.

  • Nick Holden

    So much truth. The removal of illegal defense is underrated.

    It really is tiring to see all these players from different eras claiming that exactly at the time they played the players were much better for some reason.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    facts is facts

  • Slick Ric

    That’s your assumption, no different from me saying he would average even more.

  • Slick Ric

    I don’t find this inconceivable at all, he did average 37 one season. The PG position has become such a integral part scoring wise, so many are able to get where ever they want to because of different rule changes.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    except i have facts to back up my “assumption” and you have your opinion.

  • Slick Ric

    Well lets all see these “facts” you want to expose.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    yeah, in a season where every team in the league scored and gave up over 104 points per game.
    .
    you know how many teams do both of those things today? zero

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    read the comments.

  • Nick Holden

    Yep.

    People fail to realize that the amount of fouls per game has been on a steady decline for quite some time now. Back in the 90′s there were 22-23 fouls per game. Even more in the 80′s. Guess how many there have been per game for the last two seasons? Less then 20. That’s a significant difference.

    Certainly doesn’t back up all this talk of the game being much tougher back in “the glorious days” (without compensation in the form of fouls)

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    each of the last 6 seasons have been the least foul heavy seasons in league history.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    it’s that “things were better in the good ol’ days” mentality. seems like basic human nature, nostalgia screws up perception of the present.

  • PPod

    Hey NBK you have done nothing to prove his claims wrong, check scoring among perimeter players compared to post in both eras. The amount of post
    scoring and post players getting MVP has dropped dramatically, so looking at
    straight scoring on teams is a naive perspective. PS I hated MJ in the days but, you can’t deny he’s the greatest of all time. Now I disagree that he could hit 45ppg but, he would make our current era’s “greats” look foolish.

  • Guest

    Dispelling some of the myths about the types of defenses MJ faced – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adus

  • PPod

    It was not for higher scores but for more exciting games. Playing fundamental basketball and dumping into the post is great but, does not sell the tickets of a man that can break down defenses by himself and throw it down. Be smart, has nothing to do with scores but ticket sales.

  • PPod

    lol nbk how old are you? 14? Go watch some old games and then reconsider.

  • Guest
  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    higher scores = more exciting games from the perspective of the rule changes. increasing scoring has been the motivation behind every rule change since 2001.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    probably older than you. and that is a factual statement. lol, there is nothing to reconsider.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    lol

  • PPod

    I think your talking Kobe down, more physical post presence means Kobe can’t drive to the whole like he does in today’s league.

  • PPod

    Even Phil Jackson said it, somebody that knows better than any of us. Jordan was smiles the night before the game, if he was off, he let his shot come to him while he focused on D. Kobe does not, does not talk to teammates before games, if he’s off, he starts firing shots up till it comes back. Kobe is nothing more than a man chasing MJ’s legacy… MJ is his legacy.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    hate to break it to you, but just because someone said something doesn’t make it true. i’m sure Phil has never actually looked at the difference in points even available.
    .
    let’s just put it differently, 45ppg would be about half of the league average ppg for an entire team today.
    .
    it’s impossible that he would have done that. literally, impossible.

  • PPod

    So by your logic tickets sales have been on a steady decline. Scoring went down, so has ticket sales?

  • PPod

    Show me the fact that shows the decline in ticket sales…. score = ticket sales. I know I am more excited about the score that the highlights or victor.

  • PPod

    Just because you say it doesn’t make it true. And you calling out the guy that helped the “old” era greatest MJ and the “new” era greatest scoring Kobe to their championships. Ya that guy has no idea what he is talking about. You are really stuck on this scoring total thing aren’t you? Ride the dead horse down to the school and get some knowledge.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    you want me to compare points for perimeter players vs points for players today, in Jordan’s era….the all-time leader in PPG…..and he’s a perimeter player.
    .
    gotcha.
    .
    ok, i searched 4 names from the 80s total. you’ll understand why at the end

    michael jordan averaged over 32 ppg for the 80s

    in 1985 Bernard King averaged 32.9ppg

    twice in the 80s Dominique averaged over 30 ppg (4 times in his career he would have led the NBA in scoring last season, he did so exactly once in his whole career in his era)

    twice in the 80s George Gervin averaged over 32 ppg

    .
    .
    of current NBA players, only 4 have ever averaged 30+ ppg
    (Kobe/LeBron/Durant/Wade)

    only Kobe Bryant has done that more than once.
    .
    really, it’s easier now?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    he has an idea what he’s talking about. but he surely hasn’t looked at the basic fundamental differences in scoring overall. which plays a huge part in a scoring average over an 82 game season. learn how to look at the whole picture, and stop believing an opinion because it comes from a knowledgeable person. all people have the ability to be wrong about their opinion. it’s safer to trust the opinions that have evidence to back them up. factual evidence.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    decline in ticket sales? the league has never been more popular overall. ticket sales encompasses 5 more teams, in 5 small markets. the “average” number will tell you just about nothing. but hey, if you want to take the argument way way out of context because you are just out here guessing? sure, go ahead.

  • pposse

    why don’t you ask horace why he said that then? its not like Horace had anything to gain by name dropping MJ. MJ didn’t even particularly care for Horace to begin with. Its not like he went out of his way to compliment MJ whats the motive for him? There is none. It today’s league MJ would attack the cup and finish every single posseession. 15 and ones will get you 45 pts. Not imposssible.

  • pposse

    what you said wasn’t fact lol

  • PPod

    Your pulling for a select pool, you have to look at it from a broader perspective, the game is driven by perimeter players not post. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/833257-michael-jordan-could-he-really-score-50-with-the-hand-check-rules-in-place/page/16

  • pposse

    dude kobe dropped 35 ppg recently in the midst of all these rule changes, what makes it so damn difficult to believe a 6’6” athletic freak (more athletic, stronger, smarter, better skills) can average 10 more ppg? MJ would literally take it to the hole every time and get fouled and sit at the foul line. How many 6’6″” shooting guards are even worth mentioning since MJ? 0! Wade and Kobe are the only ones. If Wade was a couple inches taller his style of play would be perfect for what the NBA is now and would average more ppg.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Lol the bleacher report? Anyway.
    .
    The select group is what matters. Comparing Jordan to the league average is stupid. Think about it, are we worried about the average perimeter scorer or the best? Are we worried about if it’s easier forthwith average player? What good does that do you? Let’s go about this rationally. If scoring is easier for your average perimeter player, and scoring is down overall, what does that say about available points for the highest scoring players? Let’s also keep in mind, there are more perimeter players on the court at a given time then any other type of player. Simple process of elimination leaves the highest volume scorers out in the cold. Just use logic

  • pposse

    Lebron does not have the driving abilities that guys like Wade, Jordan, Iverson have. He is just way too big and his advantage is pure strength and not craftiness. too many times he got called for blatant charges which most likely hinders him from taking it to the cup every time. But if I had his body I would take it to the cup every single time.

  • pposse

    if he can do what he did to the Cavs all the time then he should play that way. Hell if he could do that 60% of the time he should play that way, thats how ball is played everywhere you go but the NBA!

  • pposse

    By that logic we should be having guys like Mario Chalmers, Michael Beasley, Ray Allen etc. claim that LBJ would have averaged a triple double in a future era…i personally cannot wait to see if that ever happens.

  • jumpman22cn

    Don’t know if he would be scoring 45 now days. But can any of the names mentioned above could have done this when they are at the same age?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye-0ghhY7uw

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsQtYJC3mWo

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csxynd_5vl8

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsBIIiWqm4U

    and, of course this

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsBIIiWqm4U

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    First of all 05-06 is not today. That season was the first year after they reworded the physical contact to perimeter players rule. The whole league had to adjust, which is why that’s Kobe/LeBron/Iverson/ and Gilbert Arenas’ highest scoring seasons. 40 for Jordan in THAT season is very arguable. But that was 8 years ago, and since then, defenses adjusted and players have come back to below league norms in the 80s and 90s (in terms of top scoring players). And idk why people think it’s easier to get to the rim now, with the absence of illegal defense it really really isn’t. The reason Kobe was able to score as much as it was came from his propensity to hit and make so many long jumpers. I mean he did shoot over 6 threes a game that season. And it’s been more than proven that more 3pt attempts typically = better offense. .
    Also, with shot charts / tendencies being available today and the ability to do a multitude of things with team defense, it just doesn’t make sense to think Jordan would be able to take even enough shots to score 40+ and keep up the facade of caring about winning. Let’s just leave it as, Jordan loved winning more than scoring. So no, he couldn’t have done it in today’s league.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    They probably will.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    If you put the odds together, the facts would support that theory over the 45ppg theory.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    TV ratings went down with scoring. Bottoming out in 05 (Spurs vs Pistons)
    .
    You can google the Nielsen Ratings if you feel like it.

  • Kadavour

    the possession per game + distribution of shots math qualitatively refutes any merit to this claim.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Thank you!

  • pposse

    mj never needed many shots to get 50 ptsm. he would get crazy numbers on 15-20 shots a game. No one is saying that its easier to drive now but the reward for taking it to the cup is far greater than it ecer was. Intelligent ballers take adcantage if the rules and couple that with a guy thats hy far more athletically gifted that any of the guys you mentioned ps the rest would be history. The are about a million ways to win bball games. Giving the ball to b one guy and having him do all the work has been done before and with success

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    But how are they gonna change the game. Are they going to include hockey assists in stats because lbj would average a triple dbl

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    He is the all time leader in FGA per game……

  • pposse

    Imo the game should revert back tobthe way it wwasplayed in the 90s and 80s. The talent in the league is good enough to revert back to it. Its the way bball is actually played on nearly all corners of the earth

  • pposse

    And none of that ever made him less efficient as a ball player. Infaxt he is the goat in many peoples eyes

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Well sure, but that doesn’t change that it completely contradicts your entire comment.

  • danpowers

    really? i only know about europe that there are no illegal defense and no defensive 3 seconds at all which allows full zone play and forces teams to utilize more team basketball / ball movement which dumps individual stats significantly. i highly doubt the nba would want that.

    i dont know how they play in asia / latin america or africa tho

  • danpowers

    “Kobe has worked more hours than jordan definitely”
    thats an assumption with nothing to back it up. i doubt that jordan was second to anyone in work ethic. evidence: his goat career. guess if there is any statement that could be made than that both were even in that aspect. imo it was jordans sheer killer instinct on both ends of the floor that seperates him from anybody else.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Nobody plays like that anywhere. Actually

  • shockexchange

    Actually, many people consider Horry Jr to be the closest thing to Robert Horry.

  • Bone

    Hate to break it to ya…. But your pace argument means absolutely nothing. Pace is indicative of the specific team, not the entire league. A team with Jordan in his prime would, will, and has set its own pace.

    Not to mention, when comparing 1989 with 2012, the defensive rating on average were higher then compared to now and eFG% is higher now than they were back in 1989, yet today’s teams on average shoot a lower FG% than players back in 1989. So, what does all that add up to? It means defense back in those days were stronger, despite “pace,” today’s players just can’t shoot. Players today are basically given greater opportunities to score (in comparison) which in reality leaves star players’ stats: bloated. Meaning if Michael Jeffery Jordan played in this era, his stats would also be left bloated.

    That Illegal Defense nonsense is nothing but what it is: nonsense. Teams still play man to man, zone will get you destroyed by a cerebral player like Jordan anyway (it’s so sad that some of these players struggle with it so badly, it’s the easiest defense to beat), and when they do cheat over they leave ample opportunity to get burned. Try cheating over to Jordan with the ball while Paxson is sitting in the corner. Jordan’s assist numbers would be bloated as well.

  • pposse

    Playground s across the world play bball this way. Zones are wack. At the end of the bday in clutch 4th qtr situations isolation bba ll is what the coaches call onbfor the most part

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Oh playgrounds. Right. Because that’s comparable to organized basketball.

  • pposse

    You can be efficient and a volume scorer. Mj was and would be in this day and age imo hebwould still he shooting 50% from thebfield and go to the ft line like 20 times a game

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    20 times a game? There are less fouls now then ever, but Jordan would destroy the FT record? Goodness, keep swinging and missing.

  • pposse

    It compare enough to the way the game was played in the 80s and 90s. In fact kaj said the best bball player ecer was earl manigault did he even playbin college? I seriously cannot remember

  • pposse

    Cause less people take it to the cup as often as they probablybshould. Lbj for instance she drive every possession but doesnt halfway bc he is not an above average ft shooter and halfway bx he gets called for charging

  • shockexchange

    He had a brief stint at a historically black college down south. During one game the coach told the goat to make 5 passes before a shot and he proceeded to run and isolation and go one-on-one – sort of like what you see in L today. Needless to say, he was eventually sent packing.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    i agree there is not way to provide evidence for that claim. but from biographical information it appears that kobe wasn’t much of a outgoing person FOX SPorts beyond the glory. JOrdan isn’t as technically skilled as kobe. Kobe defineitly can work the post better than jordan minus the fadeaway jumper. Again that is a personal opinion qualitative. How’s the weather in england?

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    i agree. 45 a game means terrible team and green light. Maybe if jordan played for the bobcats that may actually happen but i don’t see a championship

  • pposse

    Haha yet it was your main man kaj who nicknamed him the goat right??

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    earl manigault, pee wee kirkland

  • Matisse

    In the playgrounds in the Dominican Republic, were I have played, they majority of the time play zone.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    where to start where to start
    well, lets start at the beginning,
    in 1987, Michael Jordan’s highest scoring season, the Bulls played the SLOWEST pace in the league. what? you ask? yes, it’s called the illegal defense rule, letting Jordan go one on one in isolation was the easiest and best option for a terrible team with the greatest player ever at the height of his powers. they played SLOW. even if that did change, as I pointed out earlier, the fastest pace team today doesn’t score and give up over 104 ppg…..every single team in the NBA did that year. Don’t insult anyone’s intelligence into thinking Michael Jordan would have such a crazy effect on a team that they would play at a pace that hasn’t been since since before the 1980s.
    lol you don’t understand why eFG% has gone up while FG% has gone down? I mean, do I have to address this part of what you said? just idk, look at 3pt attempts. that should be able to sort things out for you. it was still easier to score in the 80s….despite there being almost no teams who even tried to shoot. now it’s about efficiency, you know, because 3 is worth more than 2. so you can shoot 3′s at a lower % and still score more points…I mean it’s basic math…..if you finished school I shouldn’t have to explain this to you.

    please recite the illegal defense rule, and the differences in what a defense is allowed to do. prove that you have any idea what you are talking about. I believe with the information I have shown over this entire comment section, it would be fair for you to at least prove you aren’t just typing out your opinion like word vomit.

  • shockexchange

    Not sure. “Goat” doesn’t stand for “greatest of all time” though. It’s short for Manigualt – his last name.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Lol, Kareem says a lot of bullsh*t. He just called Oscar the goat last week.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Learn something new everyday. Thanks if that’s true shock!

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Or it’s just a lot harder to get to the hoop…..and 3′s are valued more than high risk 2′s.
    .
    But whatever you want to believe…

  • pposse

    Right I always wondered if it was short for greatest ofball time. I b just remeber that hbo documentary called rebound therr were big time nba names kaj and dr j saying how he was great

  • Bone

    Ah.. The mark of an Internet punk, defaming someone because their point is made (respectfully, mind you) and succeeded in proving the punk wrong. Even though you bring up 1987 Bulls and pace now, I already addressed that and how that can be in my original comment…. If you can work your brain to understand it.

    I also brought up how eFG% works in Jordan’s favor. You talk about the 3, I talk about “opportunities.” Opportunity + Michael Jordan = ? See if you can figure that out. Decision making is the biggest part of basketball. What shot you take makes no never mind, it’s all about being effective.

    I’ll be honest here, and this is in no way meant disrespectful, but there’s a different between stating facts that support theories and stating a theory that supports a fact. What you’re saying right now makes literally no sense, and you don’t even get what you’re saying or else you wouldn’t have replied to me with that garbage you just spat out on your keyboard. But you won’t get it, none of you kids today ever get it. So, it’s like talking to a tree stump. Have a good night, kid.

  • shockexchange

    Yeah, kaj said he was the greatest player never to play in the L and the best player he ever played against. But he had the nickname, “the goat”, years before kaj made that statement.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Lol you said today’s players can’t shoot, expressed that you didn’t understand what eFG% was, and are now saying Jordan would get more opportunities? Lol in a slower paced league with much more sophisticated defenses Michael Jordan would get more opportunities to score? Because teams shoot more 3′s at a higher %…but the players “can’t shoot”.
    .
    I mean you are contradicting yourself and you are still going to go on about my generation and me being a tree stump? You blatantly don’t understand what you are talking about. But hey, show me how to use these facts. Don’t just say you get it, prove you get it.
    .
    Show me how players today, “can’t shoot” ?
    What opportunities do you speak of? With less shots to go around on offense, immediately the “opportunities” are less, so explain, if scoring is more well rounded overall and more 3pt attempts are taken, how would michael Jordan get more opportunities?
    Again, explain the illegal defense rule? You clearly don’t understand what it was….so let’s at least here your interpretation?

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    but you act as if he critically thought and reflected on what he said. I think eh just said it to say it.

  • shockexchange

    True. There were also teams like the Denver Nuggets – and other west coast teams – who were a blur and routinely scored 115 – 120 points per game.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    i agree why do ppl take nba players words as an authority they may have the physical girts to play but how many are critical analysis of the game.

    But you still have to admit jordan based on his persona could get 45 if he played for the bobcats right now. I mean what other offense would he want to pass to.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    Did phil analyze and look at all the factors before saying what he said. Come on come on come on two peas in a pod doesn’t mean we all are in the pod.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    17 straight x 4 = 68 so if lebron wanted to get 12 points per quarter i think he could. i mean 8 points in the post and couple of jumpers. isn’t hard to fathom.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    dagger we speak the same slither my reptilian anarchist.

  • Child

    Yes grandpa! Everything was better in your time.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    if i read what you said and i heard what you said i dont think i could understand it. Lebron is better slasher than anyone of those guys you mentioned. reference his cavs days. You musta forgot like young roy jones jr said. You know and I know his game has toned down athletically from the cleveland days because he’s become more energy efficient and putting up like 60% fg in champisonship series is greater testament. He aint reckless but he aint speckless. We need to remember that this year will be the year he busts out a 40% three points (pure speculation)

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    He couldn’t average 45. I’m sure he’d lead the league in scoring but not do that. I would be shocked if he was any more productive then he was in the late 80s with how much faster open the games were for individuals. You can’t even clear out a side of the court today…..which is what Jordan lived on for a while.

  • Child

    And you know there’s something clouding his judgment, since he placed Carmelo in the same tier as Kobe and Lebron.

  • shockexchange

    It was a culture clash with the coach who was southern and not used to repeating himself. They were playing an inferior team and The Goat was putting on a one-man show. However, the coach wanted to win the CIAA title and was trying to prepare the team for when they faced tougher competition.

    The top CIAA teams had future pros on The Goat’s level. At some point you will face a team that you can’t outrun or out jump, so you have to play team ball and outsmart them. The Goat wasn’t tryna to hear that. He eventually found himself on a bus back to Harlem.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    I had heard about him before but I didn’t really know the story. I really appreciate you taking a minute to put it up man, thanks.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    i guess your right but i mean here’s a harder question could jordan get a 100 points if he played on the bobcats against a bad team right now.

    like kobe got 81 but what could jordan do.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    adding velocity dont you tell me a story adding velocity when the winds accelerate and you participate in adding velocity. whats the matter with the latter i got to chatter about the stature of adding velocity.

  • shockexchange

    There is an HBO movie about his life (think it’s called “The Goat”). Well worth checking out. Kareem’s comment about how great The Goat was may seem like urban legend. The movie shows you how things happened to him that derailed what could have been a promising pro career.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    first of all, that 2005-06 season was a transition season. defenses didn’t know how to guard perimeter players. if Jordan were ever to have a season averaging 40, that would have been it. but that isn’t today. that is 8 years ago. and that was a one time season. not really relevant in talking about 2013 and the way things have evolved since then.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i’ll see if I can find it on the internet

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    but you ahven’t factored in all the illegal pirating on nba streaming. Many statistical sources your refer to don’t account for many factors which are difficult to estimate. I mean globally I know the nba has gone up based on global popularity. But do chinese, philipense, indians stream games on pc or have satellite. Internet is cheap and satellite will break bank. I mean how many people use the Television to watch tv in the US now when you can hook up a 32 inch moinitors to your pc quad monitor output. Or even just post on the laptop and have facebook, twitter, myspace, goPlaque, and StrobeMaq open checking out your social life.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    refer to my post beneath my vegetable friend.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    the Nielsen ratings are still the largest available representation of how many people are watching a given sporting event. lol

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    first off

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    yo bro refer my convo up my vegetable friend.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    Its difficult to cite a statistic that clearly can’t account for a large number of viewers. Maybe that’d be a good thesis idea.

  • shockexchange

    Don’t want to give too much of the movie away but those scenes between The Goat and his college coach were pretty sad and scary at the same time. His coach was the typical “Sargeant Carter” my way or the high way type. He thought The Goat was the typical NYC a$$hole … loud, ignorant and undisciplined.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    whose the best lebron stopper in the league right now? is it a) kawhi b)Iggy c) paul george d) only b & c e) none of the above

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    No sir. If it’s your largest test group, then it is no different then any other tested scientific theory. lol

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    Wait wait i dont understand the humor

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Basically I think it’s funny that you don’t realize that whether it’s everyone or not, it is still the best representation we have of the viewing audience as a whole. That’s why they have focus groups

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    but what i am saying is that focus group isn’t a good representation because there are not methods to to account for fraction who use streaming. like if the focus group was taken in china versus us what would happen

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    So you think the nba’s popularity is different overseas then here…season to season? I mean, I think maybe if you use China, then sure, based on Yao Ming’s career alone.

  • danpowers

    i dont live in england so i have no idea.

    “Again that is a personal opinion qualitativ”
    indeed, a very exclusive one, if i may add.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    I think the nba’s popularity has definitely increased globally due to the internet. I mean the world is becoming a global village that’s why I wanted to know why the gay issue was such a big deal in the issue when the rest of the world it isn’t. i mean now days there is no such thing as team loyality based on the city location. most people can become fans of a team on the other coast and no more than the locals due to the internet.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    If you ever decide to come to chicago atlanta or new york city let me know we can possibly ball together and catch an nba game in live rather than illegally streaming.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    really you aren’t from england but how come you have a name that refers to austin powers last name.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    why did you come up with the name dan powers in tribute to austin powers if you aren’t from great britian. why not change your name to an iconic american hero like Dan HOgan.

  • grgeblck

    Will someone get stabbed again by comparing these two players?

    And I quite agree with Pippen’s view though, and I am not a Lebron fan.

  • danpowers

    kenny powers, man http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgDaVLCaBzQ
    just realized the austin powers reference later. two hillarious movie characters tho. just fyi: austin powers is also famous outside the uk ;) im from germany by the way.

  • danpowers

    that was a kenny powers reference http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgDaVLCaBzQ i just realized that austin powers connection later.

    “why not change your name to an iconic american hero like Dan HOgan.”

    for two reasons: first – i am german. second – i am not a big fan of national identities. so flags, borders or other artificial constructs like culture or ethnicity are really not for me.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    what do you mean? its over the internet. i don’t think physically maybe mentally.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    so what ideological bonds do you think are of worth. In the modern era nation states have united so many people. Unfortunately germany is a prime example. Are your views based on past historical reasons.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    Also defintiely check out george carlin

  • danpowers

    none or maybe just common sense.

    nation states used to be an improvement compared to most systems that existed before, but in the meantime nations are obsolete and not up to the tasks our world is facing. besides that this system got installed world wide during the peak of european imperialism with the logic consequence to be shaped by racist ideas of white supremacy/eurocentrism and to carry out global power structures that overreach most people on this planet and that function untill today. national, ethnical, “cultural” and religious identification divide more people world wide than they unite.

    my views are based on this world’s history, the longue duree if you will, and on knowledge of some social sciences such as political science or sociology. also on personal experience. i feel way more comfortable to live in a “multiculturally” shaped city center than in a conservative small town or village.

    a very simple example: i got more in common regarding interests and character with my eritrean neighbour than with my german neighbour. that eritrean guy loves basketball, we share the same taste in music, like going out to the same venues, his sister is a smokin hot 10 and i still try to get a date with her lol, etc…while my german neighbour is a square, loves soccer / football which i hate and seems to be a little racist. so why should i feel more connected to that german guy? because we got accidently born in the same country to get the same passport and happen to have the same skin colour? i am supposed to be less connected to somebody born poor and far away even though i share more with this person than with most germans? you see where this is going? this starts with a single example and spreads to a broad perspective where we start talking about political participation, exclusion, othering, distribution of resources, etc… .

  • grgeblck

    it’s a joke. LMAO.

  • danpowers

    a friend of mine adviced me to, too, but so far i didnt really “feel” george. i like his message tho

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    so similar passions are the greatest bonds. Agreed. Your a historian. What is your favorite period in history. I enjoy learning about some math history and some medicine history

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    it’s a weird world. isn’t it

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    what about dave chapelle or robert saplosky

  • danpowers

    chapelle all day

  • danpowers

    not solely a historian, that wasjust on of my courses back then. i enjoyed pre- and post- colonial history of the americas and sub-saharan africa. i find atlantic studies very intersting, but by an interdisciplinary approach. i graduated some time ago, but i actually dont know much about math history and medicine history just in a recent context in terms of how it influences the “brain drain” of so called developing countries, etc…

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    check out brian greene and robert saplosky. you’ll enjoy their lecutres as well as clay carson’s of stanford.

    what is the most influential academic institutions/ think tanks in germany? or are you studying aboard in the america.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    you know the greatest point i ever learned was that for any idea any structure whether it be a physical object such as a car or a civilization always trace back to the origin. where did the idea come from and what are the facts that surround that idea. when you approach history and any discipline like that you are able to dig and really understand. understanding different lenses to one view is paramount. What do you think the greatest historical period or invention has been in human history

  • Basketball_iQ

    I wish I could stab you like that one dude did other dude a week ago lmao
    nawl, for real tho, ,, jordan probably wouldn’t avg 45ppg…. itd be closer to 38ppg.
    I haven’t seen ONE player with the capabilities of containing the big homie. And what I lovee about jordan was that he couldve just pulled up for a massive amount of jumpshots and made a high percentage of them but instead he’d go to the bucket and draw fouls to get himself in rhythm at the line or set the tone for the game early. I mean look at what kobe is doimg to the league,,, thats a sample size of what the big homie would do to this league. Ijs

  • Basketball_iQ

    Wow,,,, really? That was one of the weakest arguments /comebacks ever. Illegal defense was nonsense? Did you even watch basketball then? Slam needs to request resumes before allowing random comments like this to be posted. Wow

  • The Mighty FV

    Damn, I’ve never seen nbk get so owned in a thread like this one, you came in so strong man but….wow.

  • danpowers

    thanks for the advice. check out that one http://www.unc.edu/~aescobar/wan/wanquijano.pdf

    i studied and graduated in germany. there are no most influential institutions /think tanks over here. any excellency or elite status claim are not really legit. the university system is a little different over here. you’ll find the most renowned scholars in public institutions / universities. there are also private universities, which just have the reputation that they only exist to guarantee graduation for rich kids.

  • danpowers

    tough question – imo there is no such a thing like a greatest invention or period. my studies brought me to the realization that it is not really true that “history repeats”. imo history just doesnt change. i dont see many changes in power structures, socio-psychological behaviour, etc among mankind throughout history. “bread and circusses” became “nba and mcdonalds” lol. we are all nothing but a bunch of monkeys (a little less hairy tho)

  • pposseisafool

    You play the way it is necessary for your team to win. Lebron playing that way on the Heat would be counter productive. And just to ruffle your feathers and show you how dumb your argument is: If Derrick Rose could be a pass first pg he would be. John Wall, CP, DWill, and RR have better court vision and pass better than Rose. But wait, Rose could pass like them if he could right? That’s what you always say. You’re just a Lebron hater. The NBA has the best basketball of any league in the world. If the game is played a certain way at the highest level, then that’s the best available example of how it should be played. You play the way your team needs you to. Jordan only won when he learned that. You are simply wrong.

  • BostonBaller

    Regardless of eras, some players would be great in either. The name MJ is in the article and we know his average would go up some from when he played if for no other reason he’d have fewer games against the Bad Boys who literally beat him down. lol As far as fewer and fewer post players winning MVP.. hit has far less to do with superior perimeter players and a lot more to do with inferior post players of today. Jordan’s avg went down because he became an old wizard. Could he avg 15pts more than his 30 career avg…maybe, but I wouldn’t doubt it or him.

  • Enigmatic8

    Reading the comments this post has generated has led me to a few conclusions.
    1. The adage ‘empty vessels make the most noise’ is true
    nbk whatever that stands for makes a lot of noise and from the sounds of it has never attended a stats course. You haven’t made an adjustment for the bias in everyone of your arguments.

    2. Anyone who has seen MJ in his prime and the game today are well aware that the probability of scoring 45 is high though not a certainty. Only if one was to present a 50 paged document filled with stats I may believe them and even then….
    As Twain said once ” there are lies, damned lies and statistics.

    3. Lastly stats if used by someone with grey matter between his ears can be credible.
    Certainly not nbk who I guess was dropped on his head as a baby who I’m surprised even watches a cerebral game like basketball.

  • guest

    look what you started Horace.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Lol

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Show me how I was wrong. Simple, if you think you get it, prove you get it.

  • johnston

    You should try to take two weeks off from Slam. Just try it, I dare you.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    acquiring knowledge and wisdom are different than acquiring degrees and gpas.

    read this book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del,_Escher,_Bach

  • johnston

    Why would he do that?

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    what do you mean

  • danpowers

    true. even acquiting knowledge in a way to just gather facts doesnt really equal wisdom or intelligence. i wish i had more of the last two tho.

    i dont know if i will actually read the whole title, but ill have a look at it. were getting to deep here now anyway, id like to get back to stupidity and more profane things such as discussions about guys who put a ball through a hoop lol.

  • KingBenjamin

    There’s no point in arguing with “nbk” he’s just an internet troll who always thinks he’s right and believes he knows more about the game of basketball than any person on earth despite him never playing organized basketball in his life.

  • RKJ92

    No.. you say something stupid he will speak up, if you don’t he won’t say a word other then maybe add some intriguing insight to a comment made. You just haven’t been a regular on SLAM long enough to know that though.

  • Dblock

    Jordan would average 45 in todays game. The current league has no complete power forwards or centers. Thats why guys like KG and Duncan can play until they need a wheelchair. Most players are one dimensional. No O but D. No D but O. LBJ will dominate the league for years to come because his athleticism makes centers and power forwards nonfactors. Not to mention those positions are undersized and less talented than the 80′s and 90′s. Hell Horace Grant would be unstoppable @ 6’10″ with his consistent midrange shot he had.

  • Freeky Zeek

    I would just like to lay out there that the only player in the history of organized basketball to come close to 45 points was Pistol Pete waaaaaay back in the 70′s at 44.7. And that is pretty much an incomparable time to now, especially because of athleticism, the difference in level of play (college), and the knowledge of the game. In general, would that ever be done again? Possible, but unlikely. So disregarding all these stats and opinions as to what they mean, just the thought of someone in general not only college, but the pros scoring 45 a game seems insane. I’ll still stay close to my Chicago roots and say MJ was the greatest though.

  • KingBenjamin

    I am a regular I just don’t post comments on every article that I read.

  • RKJ92

    Maybe you should act like it then.

  • Slick Ric

    Many of you are just sensitive and feel like another old guy is disrespecting todays player by saying this. The game is more open and perimeter oriented, its less physical and there are a lack of Great big men. MJ played in a era where big men could camp in the lane because the Def. 3 seconds rule wasn’t implemented just yet and he was still able to get there and finish against better rim protectors(arguably). You don’t think he could average over 40, fine(that’s a matter of opinion to me), but it is completely idiotic and Asinine to say his averages would drop today.

  • KingBenjamin

    Act like a regular, okay??. Wtf, you’re sweating another man’s d*** on the internet, lmfao.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    If you think big men were allowed to camp in the lane then you clearly have no idea what the illegal defense rule was

  • Conor

    In a word, ”no”.

  • Conor

    Pace “means absolutely nothing” in a sport? Possessing fewer allocations of time to execute halfcourt sets, fast breaks, & shoot free throws is imperative in a matter of comparison of eras. Ultimately, one cannot compare eras’ specific players amongst each other on an individual basis, as Grant said, based on shifts in regulation.

    Everyone is free to recognize players’ historical hierarchy, but it is subjective, whether through nostalgia or honour among contemporaries, and that is important to note. Whimsical fantasies of anyone getting Wilt numbers (matched only by Kobe’s 81 & Shaq’s 2000-2003 Finals appearances against Wilt-era-like centre opposition during the post-Chamberlain/Russell/Baylor/West era N.B.A.) to that enduring extent of excellence, in today’s game, is not seriously considering the vast ramifications which officiating may cause.

    To reiterate one of nbk’s points, 2001 and 2008-2010 were the toughest conferences (both Western) in the history of the sport.

  • Nuthin_bettr_2_do

    Lol. whatevs dudes. Horace was a way better defender than those guys and he has the stats to show for it. Stone cold killer. He was a glue guy too, complete professional and utter defendant of all that was good and true of the league before it was sullied with the expansion teams which brought the league down (im looking at you Boston)

    In any case, Jordan was only lucky to play with people like Pippen, Stacey and Longley. Playing with a hall of fame coach like Jackson was a plus too.

    Right place right time amigos. Lebron is nearly done, with only a couple of seasons left in him MAX. The league belongs to Austin Daye now…you guys see his summer league performance? Phen-nom-in-nal.

    Guys like him and OJ Mayo are better cause they have a modern approach to a game steeped in tradition.
    Trend setters. Its all about minutes and benchtime.

    Anyways blah blah blah blah.

    WAAA WAAA WAAA im right you guys are wrong. YADA YADA YADA. 73% eFG to 67% competage usage blah blah blah…IOHFOEIHOWBFIJBWIAEBIHEBCIBEIBFEIFUBIUBFIJDB

    My cousin is a making a lot of money btw…just google it.

  • Progressive

    If one asked Larry Bird he’d say Magic is still the GOAT and that Jordan, although one of the best ever, benefitted from the expansion of new teams that diluted every great teams roster, as players had to be taken from teams to form the new teams in the 90′s, and the lack of other great teams in the 90′s. the Bulls never faced a former champion in the finals that was in their prime. They got by former champions on their decline. Jazz, Sonics, Blazers and Suns would never win a chip in the 80′s. The Lakers team they faced in 91-92 was not the “Showtime” Lakers and now we know the truth. Don’t kid yourselves.

  • J Du Bois

    Although, the ending of illegal defense rule technically ends every one standing on one side of the court. It still does occur in the natural flow of the game because of the defensive 3 second rule.

  • J Du Bois

    WOW

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Right, the natural flow of the game that is considerably slower than the flow of the game that allowed that to happen on ever single possession 25 years ago. It’s really irrelevant that it happens a couple times a game. .
    Michael Jordan wouldn’t average anymore points then he did in the 80s, there is really no reason to believe he could or would.

  • J Du Bois

    I do not believe he would ave more than 35 ppg … but this is totally subjective so because of this and watching him as I have lived through both 3peats it is feasible to say he would ave around 32 to 34 ppg which is not a big difference

  • Hahaha

    How does it feel to slurp another dude for everyone to see on the internet?

    Get a grip dude.

  • Dblock

    You guys stop it with the Kobe is better than MJ stuff. Jordan dominated from his rookie season. Kobe was on the bench learning the game. The embarrassing playoff performance against Utah woke him up. Phil had Jordan talk to Kobe not vice versa. Kobe is a student of Jordan. Kobe has a bigger problem named LBJ. LBJ has 4mvps and 2 titles and counting. Kobe has to win a title soon or people will bury him with the LBJ talk like they attempted with Kobe and MJ. Fans have short memories but MJ WAS THE BEST! HE Never shared the light with anyone. Pure dominance people!

  • Hahaha

    It’s not use arguing with the likes of RKJ92; he’s one of those guys that sucks up to NBK like a vacuum cleaner no matter what he says.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Yeah, I’m not arguing with anyone who feels that way. It’s conceivable that he’d do that. I would not bet on it personally, but it’s an understandable sentiment

  • pgs

    I know this is your schtick and all, but at some point you have got to stop man. It gets tiresome.

  • Hahaha

    Its “co-sign”, moron.

  • Hahaha

    Look, he managed to succinctly and concisely say the same thing you did without having to resort to condescension and being a know-it-all! Wow! Who knew that was possible after having to look at your posts on this site?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Ahh look, you just wasted a few seconds of your life. Hope you feel like that helped!

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Ahh look, you just wasted a few seconds of your life. Hope you feel like that helped!

  • Hahaha

    Arguing with NBK, despite valid points and a respectful tone, is like arguing with one of those brash kids who is with his buddies and looking to pick a fight with anyone around him. It doesn’t matter what you say, he will respond with irrelevant insults and his junk-slurping fans on SLAM (that RJK92 kid in particular) will jump in for backup and extra ego-feeding.

  • Hahaha

    Arguing with NBK, despite valid points and a respectful tone, is like arguing with one of those brash kids who is with his buddies and looking to pick a fight with anyone around him. It doesn’t matter what you say, he will respond with irrelevant insults and his junk-slurping fans on SLAM (that RJK92 kid in particular) will jump in for backup and extra ego-feeding.

  • shockexchange

    Not half as tiresome as the silly MJ / Horry Jr comparisons.

  • shockexchange

    Not half as tiresome as the silly MJ / Horry Jr comparisons.

  • shockexchange

    Not half as tiring as the silly MJ / Horry Jr comparisons.

  • shockexchange

    Not half as tiring as the silly MJ / Horry Jr comparisons.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    The only way you can think those points were valid is if you also don’t understand, like him, what he was saying actually meant.
    .
    Let’s just go over the most glaring example.
    .
    FG%
    eFG%
    “Guys today can’t shoot”
    .
    If effective field goal % goes up, but FG% goes down, all that shows is that players are taking AND MAKING, more 3′s. Enough of which to prove, if you accounted for how many points come with each shot, that overall points per shot attempt has gone UP. Literally showing that shooting has improved.
    .
    Now since he won’t respond why don’t you answer for him, if you think his points are valid. How would overall shooting improve, specifically from 3….if shooting has become worse?
    .
    Are you polite to people who call you a tree stump while blatantly proving they don’t know what they are talking about? Should I be polite to you for doing largely the same thing?
    .
    Holler back when you come up with an intelligent response.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    The only way you can think those points were valid is if you also don’t understand, like him, what he was saying actually meant.
    .
    Let’s just go over the most glaring example.
    .
    FG%
    eFG%
    “Guys today can’t shoot”
    .
    If effective field goal % goes up, but FG% goes down, all that shows is that players are taking AND MAKING, more 3′s. Enough of which to prove, if you accounted for how many points come with each shot, that overall points per shot attempt has gone UP. Literally showing that shooting has improved.
    .
    Now since he won’t respond why don’t you answer for him, if you think his points are valid. How would overall shooting improve, specifically from 3….if shooting has become worse?
    .
    Are you polite to people who call you a tree stump while blatantly proving they don’t know what they are talking about? Should I be polite to you for doing largely the same thing?
    .
    Holler back when you come up with an intelligent response.

  • The Seed

    Dude Kobe won 2 titles during Lebron suppose prime years. Also Kobe played with Shaq, they cancelled each other out for MVP’s. Wade could not do that with LBJ, this tells you how much people really think about Wade. Also Lebron has 4MVPS, they came when he was seen as a one man show with Cavs, which I understand and came with Heat, as Wade sputters into a bum. LBJ is lucky, Spurs choked and you would not be writing anything.

  • The Seed

    Dude Kobe won 2 titles during Lebron suppose prime years. Also Kobe played with Shaq, they cancelled each other out for MVP’s. Wade could not do that with LBJ, this tells you how much people really think about Wade. Also Lebron has 4MVPS, they came when he was seen as a one man show with Cavs, which I understand and came with Heat, as Wade sputters into a bum. LBJ is lucky, Spurs choked and you would not be writing anything.

  • bike

    Agreed. He could still lead the league in scoring for multiple seasons and would still dominate.

  • KingBenjamin

    True.

  • Dblock

    Kobe does not make players better. He just started trusting his teammates which is too lil too late because the lakers are trying to rebuild. Don’t forget Shaq and Kobe lost to a determined undersized piston team. Rip Hamilton gave it to Kobe so don’t act like they were a dynasty. In order to be a goat u need rivals which Kobe had none or hall a famers at his position in his prime. A healthy Grant Hill and Penny Hardaway would of made it interesting but it didn’t happen. Not his fault but Kobe was cheated as far as talented peers but MJ did what he was suppose to do. MJ Took a beating early on but he succeeded the hall a famers which makes his legacy the greatest! D

  • Dblock

    Once again LBJ will continue to dominate todays game. Kobe is in denial and just needs to focus on a great retirement. Its LBJ’S world and all u can do is watch the accomplishments pile up. Face it, nobody wants to play with Kobe and at this stage the lakers need a new superstar.

  • JohnWilkesPoop

    You need to read the Russell Westbrook thread closely. People’s true colors have been revealed.

  • shockexchange

    SE saw it. Thanks for the heads up. People getting emotional because they can’t win a basketball argument. He won’t respond these guys’ comments anymore on here.

  • JohnWilkesPoop

    Good to hear it. On some real sh*t, that was legitimately a sh*tty thing to do. Anyways take care.

  • pposse

    lebron in the full court is better than everyone. Lebron slashing/off ball movements might be better, but I am simply talking about dribble driving to the hole in a half court set. There is no way he was/is better than Jordan for sure. And personally i think Wade, Kobe and a plethora of other players (iverson for one) was better historically than him.

  • Interdico Scriptor

    What’s wrong with Bleacher?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Well anybody can put something on there….that’d be like copy and pasting a long Facebook post

  • Interdico Scriptor

    Disagree. I’ve had as many probs as anyone with Nbk, but he’s formidable with those stats & passionate to boot, which makes for good discussions (and attracts trolls). Nbk likes a good argument as much as anyone here, but you need to know yr sh*t. If u say yr piece and he disagrees it doesn’t make yr argument invalid at all.

  • Interdico Scriptor

    It’s called Rebound-the legend of Earl Manigault.
    One thing is, and I’ve seen it on SLAM before, they say he was able to take a dollar note from the top of the back-board. After seeing Dwight put a sticker about 8 inches off i see that that is impossible.
    Anyone disagree?

  • Interdico Scriptor

    No @Shock, i got u here. Manigault rhymes with nanny-goat. Thus the nickname.

    And it was Kareem who aid he was the best

  • Interdico Scriptor

    Duh. I’m a tool. That’s what KAJ stands for!

  • Interdico Scriptor

    Ditto Australia

  • Interdico Scriptor

    No, more so

  • Interdico Scriptor

    No, more so.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    Pass me the torch

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Why do you say things like this? Do me a favor instead, stop replying to me. I dread seeing your name in my inbox, I have a baby, I don’t need consistent nonsense from some random person on the Internet. Share with someone else.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    i am not trying to upset you. You are a legend on this board.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    it’s just a comment section. i’m not special. i would appreciate it if you didn’t treat me like i was.

  • Pingback: NBA 2013-2014 Rankings | The Natural

  • TheDignam .

    MJ said that only Kobe is getting closer to his level because the won 5 titles with the same Team. But LBJ, CA, Wade, when they’ll win 6 titles, they’ll approach MJ. But not right now.

  • Ran Karat

    why people jumping on grant like he was the first to say that? the next quotes may lighten your eyes kidos:

    “During a 2007 L.A. Lakers pre-season broadcast, Phil Jackson was asked how he thought Michael Jordan would perform today, Phil said: “Michael would average 45 with these rules.”

    Tim Grover, who has trained Kobe, Lebron, and Jordan, was asked who would win a 1-on-1 battle of Jordan vs. either of the other two:
    Tim Grover:
    “Oh, Michael. No question. From a physical and mental standpoint, he’s
    the best I’ve ever seen. If he were playing now, with the way the refs
    call everything, and with all the padding these guys wear, he’d average
    40 or 50 a night if he wanted.”

    grant just said what 2 coaches said 7 years ago, just imagine what phil would have said if he didnt coached kobe that time, 50+? might be…

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