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Wednesday, October 16th, 2013 at 10:00 am  |  246 responses

LeBron James Says His Killer Instinct Different from Michael Jordan


by Marcel Mutoni @ marcel_mutoni

LeBron James has a well-documented obsession with Michael Jordan — he wore MJ’s iconic #23 when he entered the League, and continues to watch old Jordan games in his spare time.

LeBron, however, doesn’t approach the game the same way Michael did — or how Kobe Bryant does, for that matter — and James explains that his method works just fine.

Per ESPN:

When people think about the killer instinct, they always think of MJ and Kobe. Do people underestimate your killer instinct? People say you have it but not like those two. Do you think you have it like they do?

“Ahh. I’ll just put it this way, man. There are different ways to hunt. I watch the Discovery Channel all the time, and you look at all these animals in the wild. And they all hunt a different way to feed their families. They all kill a different way. Lions do it strategically — two females will lead, and then everybody else will come in. Hyenas will just go for it. There are different ways to kill, and I don’t think people understand that. Everybody wants everybody to kill the same way. Everybody wants everybody to kill like MJ or kill like Kobe. Magic didn’t kill the way they killed. Does that mean he didn’t have a killer instinct? Kareem didn’t either. But does that mean Kareem didn’t have a killer instinct? The same with Bird. That doesn’t mean you don’t have a killer instinct. Tim Duncan don’t kill like Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant, but I’ve played against Tim Duncan twice in the Finals and I know for sure he’s got a killer instinct. So there are different ways to kill. MJ had a killer instinct for sure. But if people really think that MJ didn’t talk to nobody and didn’t smile on the court, they’re crazy. They’re crazy. I’ve seen him. I was watching a clip the other day of him blocking Charles Barkley, and they’re laughing about the play — on the floor. Right now, if I block Kevin Durant on the floor, or I block Carmelo Anthony and we laugh about it? Ahh, I’m going to get killed [laughing]. I’m telling you. But there are different ways of killing.”

The whole interview is pretty great, and offers rare insight into LeBron’s mind: he says that Allen Iverson was his second favorite player growing up, admits that his biggest obstacle is an enormous fear of failure, and reveals plans to become an even more punishing post presence.

Michael Jordan’s legacy is obviously secure, and his army of supporters may never agree to place anyone alongside their hero. LeBron James is making his own case, and has proven that he doesn’t need to be like Mike in order to be considered among the greatest NBA players ever.

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  • pposse

    The fear of failure is what needs to be highlighted. The only people in this world that are afraid to fail are the ones that don’t work hard enough.

  • honduran

    His immaturity use to be ,my problem with him which made my respect for him diminish… but after these last two years with the Heat, gotta give it to him. He cant take over like mj or kobe, but he does his thing.

  • JibbsIsBallin

  • shockexchange

    “There are different ways to hunt” – just when you thought the hunting and animal analogies were over. The Kang is clearly a hunting dog.

  • ChosenOne

    The thing is, he’s putting a lot of pressure on himself with this “I wanna be the greatest ever” talk. I love the guys ambition, but the more he keeps saying this, the increase in expectations of him and his game will elevate to unrealistic heights which could be then used against him. All the best to him if he can pull it off…

  • CCT

    Lebron does things his way. He’s the most dominant force in basketball several years running and he’s the leader of a team that’s won titles and is still the leaguewide favorite.

    I’ll always love Mike, and will never diminish what he’s done from an individual and team standpoint, but Lebron has come into his own and he’s poised to continue winning MVP’s and a couple more titles.

    Mike stands above Lebron and Kobe because he never lost a Finals, that’s undisputed, and leading the league in scoring 10 times kind of shuts the door on who was the greatest scorer among them, regardless of total points scored (which Kobe is trying to wrestle away before he retires) but Lebron has that all around game that has evolved into something that is unlike anyone else’s in the league now…..or anyone else over the last 20 years.

    If that trend continues, he won’t be able to be kept out of the “game’s greatest” conversation any longer, it will just be who sits on the throne in 20 years.

  • Feez_22

    A fear of failure is a fear of rejection.

    Even if you work very hard, a fear of rejection can have you question the validity of your work.

    Having a fear of failure is not synonymous with having a low work ethic. A fear of failure is synonymous with the fear of rejection.

    Lebron clearly works hard. To even question that is pretty ludacris. How else can you go from being one of the worst star shooters in the league to a 40% 3pt shooter/45% shooter from 16-23 ft? It isn’t about work. It is about the fear of rejection. Lebron wants to be liked. He cares what other people think. That is his biggest flaw. NOT the killer instinct stuff… his biggest flaw is caring what people think and always wanting to be liked. His fear of failure is clearly a fear of being rejected by people when he wants to be accepted. That is what his flaw is.

  • zems

    You are seriously questioning his work ethic? Do you get paid to hate, because you do it like you’re getting a check for it.

  • pposse

    to each his own but if you seriously are telling me that you want the ball in the guys hands that openly admits that he has a fear of failing over other guys who have not shown fear, nor stated something so openly glaring like this ever then go right ahead. NO advanced stat ever proved my point on Lbj this year, but you know what, thats okay…cause Lebron proved my point on Lebron…he cannot be trusted bc he fears failure.

  • pposse

    ‘a fear of failur is a fear of rejection’ – i stopped reading right there.

  • @iamMrjump

    @disqus_M0Y8uNKsPn:disqus @spur22:disqus @pposse:disqus @disqus_iyODbxkosT:disqus @shockexchange:disqus @jibbsisballin:disqus @feez_22:disqus @df2efefdbe326d8acbf1a0b865d77870:disqus I agree with everyone. The reality is MJ hasn’t ever had a team as loaded as this current Heat team. People forget MJ won it with Bill Cartwright ? SAY THAT OUT LOUD BJ ARMSTRONG & BILL CARTWRIGHT ? LOL

  • Dfrance

    The expectations are already there regardless of what he says going forward. They were put on him before he even entered the league and he keeps improving and taking his game to the next level. He’s already “pulling it off” if you ask me.

  • pposse

    the expectations died down and all but became fact (to win multiple championships) as soon as he joined Miami.

  • Feez_22

    You think you know, but you have no idea. You are blind on the matter of failure & the fear of it.

    The fear of failure has driven some of the hardest working athletes. Tom brady, Rafael nadal, Lionel messi, adrian peterson, jerry rice, … they ALL have it. I’d like for you to question these guys work ethic. Go ahead while i laugh.

  • Matisse

    No. You that’s not what he said. Stick to the point. You implied that Lebron does not have the right work ethic to combat fear.

    You questioned his work ethic. Which is utterly f**king ridiculous. Back that up.

  • pposse

    Well I explained myself clearly. He said he has a fear of failure. Go view the interview or read it in ESPN the magazine it doesnt matter. The words are written, and now you are trying to unwrite them.

  • pposse

    Well I explained myself clearly. He said he has a fear of failure. Go view the interview or read it in ESPN the magazine it doesnt matter. The words are written, and now you are trying to unwrite them…

  • pposse

    Was it Lebron’s fear of failure that had him join with a top 3 baller in 2010 and another top 10 baller? You harping on a minute detail is the stan in you. I get it though, no advanced stat computes fear, you don’t get it.

  • Feez_22

    Are you going to question the work ethic in the 5 guys i mentioned who have a fear of failure or not? If you aren’t, you have no point.

  • pposse

    no Feez_22 you don’t have a point. The exact first sentence in my original post was “the fear of failur is what needs to be highlighted’ and i have highlighted just fine that point with examples that you don’t want to answer cause the stan in you refuses to.

  • Feez_22

    Your second sentence questioned his work ethic. Thus, that is what you want people to interpret from your fear of failure highlight. Is it not?

    I am saying your second sentence is FALSE and since you won’t question the work ethic of the 5 guys i just mentioned who have a fear of failure, you know it too. Retract the 2nd sentence. It is false.

  • Dagger

    Let’s knock this down quickly:

    1. Lebron is one of the hardest working athletes in the NBA. He’s added something new to his game every summer, and he’s always in excellent shape. That’s rare and you know it.

    2. Lebron has proven beyond doubt that he can be trusted at the end of games. Do I need to justify this? Have you watched basketball in the last few years? Come on.

    3. Lebron explained how his attitude is different from Jordan’s, but that he’s still a “killer.” That’s some refreshing honesty, but in no way is he saying “I don’t have Jordan’s attitude, so I’m not clutch.”

    I can’t believe that you’re trying to open this debate after Lebron clinched his second championship (and Finals MVP) with an incredible game 7 performance. Is this even fun for you? Do you enjoy getting into these pointless debates that you can’t win?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    ..

  • pposse

    no its is not what i want highlighted. I believe if you work hard enough at anything you have nothing to fear, thats why i put that there but whatever. What I want highlighted is for all you stans to completely understand that Lebron fears failure, he fears big moments, and everything that I ever questioned about him in regards to his ‘clutch ability’ has validity based off his own admission.

  • Feez_22

    You said his fear of failure was what should be highlighted then EXPLAINED WHY in the second sentence… how is it not what you want highlighted when it is an explanation of your first sentence?

    You aren’t making any sense.

  • pposse

    in that interview Lebron aka Jay Z is also saying that he is not friends with MJ aka Tupac and that he yearns for his friendship and guidance (so he can swagger jack everything about him) just like something Jay Z would do. LOL you guys only read what you want to go ahead and debate on false pretenses. Lebron is an other worldy bball player, but he is not the best ever nor will he ever be. By his own admission I would give the ball to the KD’s, Kobes, D Roses, Westbrooks, Tony Parkers of the world before him at end of game situations.

  • pposse

    you implied ‘why’ i didnt explain why. And you know why i know? Cause I am telling you. Are you seriously telling me what i did and did not do? Did i not explain myself in a previous comment after not addressing your initial rebuttal? This is pure semantics, sorry if I got you confused with my initial post then.

  • Dagger

    You can address my points, or you can ramble on about Jay Z and Tupac before making unsubstantiated claims. That works too I guess.

  • pposse

    1. All athletes are hard working. If he were hard working and not scared to fail he wouldn’t play alongside Wade AND Bosh.
    2. like i said there is 0 advanced stats that show a ‘fear meter’ – one in which your boy claims run deep in his veins. Cool bro trust that guy, give me D Rose, Kobe, Westbrook, Durant, TP any day over him at end of game situations.
    3. I explained 3 in my previous post. You just can’t get the correllation. Read that post again and address my rebuttal.

  • danpowers

    in hindsight to context and reading between the lines it appears that he called himself a lion and kobe bryant and michael jordan hyenas lol

  • pposse

    stats do not matter when someone says they fear failure!

  • Feez_22

    Dude… wait… so are you telling me that your second sentence isn’t an explanation for your first sentence? REALLY?

    Your comment – The fear of failure is what needs to be highlighted. The only people in this world that are afraid to fail are the ones that don’t work hard enough.

    Your first sentence states that the FEAR OF FAILURE needs to be highlighted. Your second sentence explains that people who are AFRAID TO FAIL do so because they don’t work hard enough.

    I’m no fool. You stated the subject and then explained why. Clearly. This isn’t semantics. This is straight forward. You said what needed to be highlighted and then said why. You said fear of failure needs to be highlighted because people with it have it due to not working hard enough. That is what you said. No semantics. This is what you said. LMAO… everyone here knows this is what you meant. Why do you think you are getting all of these replies?

    I swear… i don’t even know why i get lured into your comments. I guess i just like rebutting nonsense… It’s an addiction i can’t shake! Time and time again, you spew nonsense and i continue to address it to maybe make you see the light… i must be insane.

  • Dagger

    Okay so wait. You admit that Lebron is hard working, but . . . he’s not hard working because he wants to play alongside Wade and Bosh? You can’t argue coherently if you don’t even agree with yourself. Anyway, I’m pretty sure he decided to play with Wade and Bosh because, you know, they were talented, he was talented, and together they could win championships. In the same way MJ won championships with Pippin and Rodman. In the same way Magic won championships with Kareem and Worthy. Or Bird with McHale, Parish and Johnson. Or Duncan with Parker and Manu. Or Kobe, with Shaq and later Gasol. Do I need to go on?

    Of course advanced stats can reflect a player’s attitude in the clutch. Here’s the bottom line: a player’s attitude in the clutch either affects performance in the clutch, or it doesn’t and it is therefore inconsequential. Right? So when we see that Lebron is the league’s top performer in the clutch (via 82games.com), we must conclude that he either has a great attitude when it matters, or his attitude doesn’t affect his performance (in which case, why care?). We can also move beyond advanced stats: have Durant, Westbrook, TP and Rose ever had a game like Lebron’s game 6 against Boston last year? Like his game 5 against Detroit years earlier? Hell, like his game 7 against the Spurs this year? Come on.

    As for your “response” to that third point: ugh.

  • http://signup.divinerenergy.com/ Anthony Dixon

    i agree

  • pposse

    yes. yes. i’m getting replies because le-stans are just that, stans.

    I answered your three questions, carry on..or hey how about address what i was really trying to highlight?

  • http://signup.divinerenergy.com/ Anthony Dixon

    MJ is not god. He just happened to be in the right system at the right time. Let Lebron live and stop feeding MJ’S ego.

  • Feez_22

    No… you are getting replies because what you said is nonsense. You said what you were trying to highlight in your second sentence. Fear of failure = Afraid to fail. They are the same thing. lmao.

  • shockexchange

    LOL. He is throwing low-key subliminals at MJ and Horry Jr. That part about watching the Discovery Channel is to throw people off the trail though. Nah he reads those SLAM threads with the Shock Exchange discussing “hunting dogs” all the time.What’s the odds of him discussing “hunting” all of a sudden.

  • pposse

    yes go on. Did you ever watch the Matrix? Obviously not, you speak as if your mind is not free or something. Choice is the key here. All those guys you mentioned didn’t have a choice of whom they played with besides a select few. His teaming up and contracting competition is a direct result of this fear of failure. But in your world, that fear of failure had zero to do with the decision. Okay argue that all you want..but argue that with a 15 yr old, you might be able to convince them by showing meaningless pairings of all stars in the past.

  • pposse

    okay soo..will you address anything else or are we done here?

  • Feez_22

    Yup, we are done here.

  • pposse

    good Feez, im glad your trolling ways can go away…again.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    if someone tells you they don’t fear failure, you can spin that into,

    “they don’t really care about success”
    .
    but hey, hang onto whatever hate you can! it is a new day.

  • Feez_22

    Trolling… Wow. Judging by the negative response all of your posts get versus the mostly positive responses my posts get, it seems like you are the troll.

    Self-realization is important. Maybe it is time you started to realize what you are on this board? Look at it… Your posts are some of the most refuted on this board because of the lack of knowledge and sense they exhibit. That’s pretty much the definition of a troll… But hey, live in a fantasy land where you think you know. You have no idea.

  • pposse

    lol okay buddy. but btw every negative response is from a stan like you.

  • ChosenOne

    I agree, but as he was entering the league it was the fans and media piling on the expectations and what not. But as of recently, it’s LeBron saying these things himself now which seems to elevate things. When it comes from the horse’s mouth as they say…
    You know how these people all claim to dissect everything he says. It’s ridiculous but these “fans” all hold him to that pressure now. Crazy I know.

  • Dagger

    Okay, so you’re only permitted to play with talented teammates if you have no say in attaining them. So Lebron should have been content to play with scrubs in Cleveland for the rest of his career. Does that make a shred of sense to you?

    The bottom line, however, is that it’s ridiculous for you to identify fear of failure as something that holds you back professionally. Fear of failure can, in fact, spur you to new heights. It means that there’s nothing you hate more than losing. Are there times when you should throw caution to the wind? Sure, and Lebron is being candid when he says that he’s still learning how to do that. But learning how to perfectly balance fear and aggression is a life-long endeavor. And based on his performance in the last two postseasons, I’d say Lebron has struck a pretty nice balance for himself.

  • Dagger

    Clearly he is hanging on your every word.

  • pposse

    Lebron Stans motto: “The ends justify the means”

    Real world motto: “The means justify the ends”

  • shockexchange

    “Humor” – The Shock Exchange recognizes that.

  • ChosenOne

    Lol, for some time I have always thought star players come on these threads to read what people are saying about them. The coincidence of this “hunting” talk coming from the man himself is funny. When was this Q&A done though?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    what? why are you so defensive, you are taking one sentence way out of context and throwing a fit like a little child all over this comment section. he said he fears failure, which is true for everyone who wants to succeed more than anything else. Have you ever wanted something so bad, you had a feeling of animosity towards failure? “fear” is just a word, it’s not a different state of being, his “fear of failure” is not the same as your “fear of a lion”. grow up

  • bball knowledge

    but when he is pushed to the brink of elimination he usually steps up big:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7augZr9C98

  • bball knowledge

    Lebron has killer instinct but its usually derived from being pushed hard and being threatened as opposed to MJ where he had it every game because of his competitiveness.

  • shockexchange

    Not sure, but the timing of the article and the timing of these “hunting dog” arguments fits. The ESPN magazine goes on newsstands this weekend. In the Shock Exchange’s opinion, these guys definitely read blogs for what people say about them, at least the informed commenters. With all the hangerson and sychophants they are surrounded by, how else would they get an unadulterated opinion about them?

  • Saleem Rainman

    Well, we all knew that.

  • danpowers

    lol

  • Dfrance

    Did you miss, when he got killed for his Finals performance against the Mavs? The expectations did everything but die down until they won the following year.

    Then after this championship the detractors are talking about how they almost lost, or how Ray saved him. Him winning is far from fact in anyones book.

  • Gman

    “The fear of failure is what needs to be highlighted. The only people in this world that are afraid to fail are the ones that don’t work hard enough.” – Pure Nonsense, there are plenty of people who work hard and are afraid to fail.

  • pposse

    nixnay. Anyone with a brain knew as soon as the decision happened he would win multiple titles. Did you question that when he said ‘im taking my talents to miami’? Your telling me that it wasn’t a given that the Heat would win multiple titles. Lol i mean seriously. Bron failed to meet a very realistic goal in 2011 so yeah he got scorched for it.

  • pposse

    like you?

  • Gman

    Right on the point.

  • Santigo

    I won’t refute LeBron being great, b/c he is great, and he will be one of the greatest..BUT, he will never be better than Michael Jordan. I think fans and analysts really leave the important factors and variables out of this whole debate that’s actually a ridiculous debate to begin with. The level of competition, the sheer physical play, the era, the competitive spirit alone will always make Michael Jordan superior to LeBron. The NBA of the last 10 years is about as washed up of a league as it was in the 1970′s.

  • Dagger

    As if that would be an insult . . . lol.

  • LakeShow

    Joke right?

    Say this out loud, Horace Grant, Ron Harper, Dennis Rodman, Scottie Pippen, Steve Kerr.

  • Dnton

    Not to mention Kukoc and Paxson.

  • LakeShow

    Does LeBron even shoot at end of game scenarios??

    Strange to even put him in the convo.

  • LakeShow

    I was trying to remember the 1, I was forgetting. Yeah Kukoc too.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    ugh, you are missing the larger point.
    .
    why was he guaranteed to win multiple championships?
    .
    you wouldn’t say that if he wasn’t clearly the best player in the world, or a guy who could handle the pressure and push his team over the top.
    .
    are you shooting at your own feet on purpose?

  • pposse

    i have no idea where my actual reply to you went. But believe me i have no need to get defensive. I read the article, hell i read that article 2 days ago. He prefaced his fear of failure by saying MJ never had that fear. It all coincides with the character of Lebron. It was his fear more than anything else that made his decision. Why NBK you may ask? Because that ‘fear of failure’ eases up when you have D Wade and Bosh on your side…something none of yall acknowledge and something that I always have. The proof is in Lebron’s own words.

  • Jake

    I was waiting for someone to say this. He’s traditionally not a closer. There are certain games in which he puts the final nail in the coffin but historically he has not been able to deliver the knockout punch. He’ll score 25 points in the first half and then 6 in the second half. That’s what has always frustrated me about LeBron. If you’re as big of an offensive weapon as he is, you should stay in attack mode for the entire game. Don’t pass up open shots just so Joel Anthony can get some touches.

  • pposse

    would ho grant and pippen develop into the players they were without MJ?

  • pposse

    would kukoc develop into the nba player he was without MJ and Pip?

  • spit hot fiyah

    hyenas don’t even hunt do they? i thought they were scavengers

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    what? we all have acknowledged it.
    .
    you just refuse to acknowledge it as something EVERY PLAYER in the HISTORY OF BASKETBALL has needed to enter the greatest ever conversation.
    .
    do you really think you have some perspective nobody else does? are you under the impression that you are a savant or some kind of genius or something?

  • shockexchange

    The Shock Exchange would also point out when MJ went into the lane, he dunked on 7 footers, but today’s players are dunking on 6’6″ centers like Chuck Hayes. SE would never say that though because it may cause a mutiny on here.

  • spit hot fiyah

    so are bosh and wade the 2 females that are out hunting for him?

  • shockexchange

    Nah son, nah. Quit with the fiyah on here guy.

  • LakeShow

    He is a career 11ppg scorer and put up those digits in his rookie year, I think he would have done just fine not under their shadows.

  • LakeShow

    I don’t see why not. MJ wasn’t exactly the tutoring sort of guy.

  • pposse

    need, choice, developed are completely different words with completely different meanings, i don’t believe there is an advanced stat that you can look on to find the difference. You have not and never will acknowledge the difference.

  • LakeShow

    Chuck Hayes has a career playing time of less the 20mpg you f*cking nit wit.

    Name a center that is 6’9″ or under that plays more than 25mpg.

    You can’t.

    But you “won” this one, right?

    Moron….

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    what? difference in what? he switched teams because Cleveland was inept. Which they CLEARLY were. that’s all it came down to, they couldn’t put a winning team around him, so he found one himself. If that’s something you don’t respect that’s fine, but it’s normal. And very understandable considering he wants to win more than he wants to lose.
    .
    Kareem chose LA, he picked LA, told Milwuakee “trade me to LA”
    Magic said, “i’m not coming out unless i’m being drafted by the Lakers”
    Wilt Chamberlain demanded a trade to LA.
    Kobe demanded LA trade him to Chicago if they couldn’t get another star around him.

    sh*t is normal. Jordan even entertained (well, put on the heir of entertaining) going to New York. Going to, or threatening to go to other teams is a staple. It just happens.

  • danpowers

    lol now that you state it… makes sense in that context

  • bike

    Um…LeBron’s lion analogy doesn’t really work. Sure the females do the killing but the male sits on his ass, waits for the kill, and then goes in to help himself. Maybe the weasel and fox in the henhouse would be a better fit. The weasel goes in the henhouse and kills every chicken because he likes to kill (MJ and Kobe); the fox goes in and grabs a chicken and gets the hell out (LeBron).

    ;

  • danpowers

    seems like they are both. hunters/predators and scavangers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyena#Behaviour

  • danpowers

    normally he seals games and championships before end of game scenarios. so yes, strange to put him into that comparison. i guess he’d be the first one to admit that. but to be fair, if we look at his last chip, he played very clutch in game 7 to seal the deal.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    touchè, all of this was very well said.

  • pposse

    KAJ also had one year left on his deal in Milwauke, and more than likely went there to smoke pot over anything. When did the Lakers actually win with KAJ btw? Magic, Kobe and Lebron are three of the most flakiest indviduals the NBA has ever had. And you holding a 21 yr old Magic to the same standards as a grown 27 yr old Lebron who seen or atleast heard of this folly from Magic just reiterates my point …you will never acknowledge the difference.

  • pposse

    nice trick pat the mobs back good dog feez you did well NBK said so lol.

  • initbruv

    Maybe not but MJ would have given God a hell of a time in a one on one game in his prime.

  • pposse

    the best player in the world and the second best player in the world have been in the finals for the past 3 yrs, on the same team. Look at all the advanced stats you want, talent wins. You don’t need to be a genius to see this.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    man are you really this sensitive? now i can’t compliment one person because in my opinion they were concise and intelligent? you ok?

  • pposse

    no but i see what had happened and i dont approve. That fool feez tried to ‘stump’ me after he was told over and over to ignore the second sentence in my orginal post waaay before your props, and then you dapped him for doing the same thing you constantly do.

  • Harlem_World

    Fear of failure has driven men of global accomplishment to some of their best work. It’s a huge motivating factor that drives tireless work ethic and is behind many of the world’s greatest works – both on and off the court.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    stump you? your second sentence is stupid. you typed it. because he was told to ignore it, it doesn’t count? or because you said this,

    ” I believe if you work hard enough at anything you have nothing to fear”

    we are supposed to take that as correct? all that says to me is, you haven’t worked very hard to attain anything in your life…..you realize that’s how that comes off? fear of failure is as normal as a “hunger for success” – to most people.

  • Harlem_World

    If he’s not chasing GOAT – what else is there for him to achieve now? Now, just as Kobe has been, he’s playing for legacy and where he’ll rank all time when it’s all said and done.

  • pposse

    dude stop getting so philosophical. In Game 6 when Tony Parker hit the three in lebrons face that fear crept in. You know what happened next? Lebron gets passed the elbow and then kicks it out to Wade for what a three pointer? or to slash into the same area Lebron was occupying? In any case Chalmers turns the ball over, and Lebron doesn’t even show interest in picking up Parker on the turnover, Parker easily spins around Lebron and Chalmers for the bucket. and the best was the horribly bricked three pt attempt which just all but spelled out fear that Lebron took right before he hit the three pointer that was bascialy a gamble with house money.

  • pposse

    you are something else. why you and feez try turning everything into a pissing contest? I can just imagine what an argument between you and your best friend feez would look like.

  • Matisse

    “The NBA of the last 10 years is about as washed up of a league as it was in the 1970′s.”

    I am going to get an aneurysm if someone proclaims this one more time.

  • pposse
  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    I can just imagine what an argument between you and your best friend feez would look like.

    LOL, are you reacting like an upset little child on purpose?
    .
    “people don’t agree with me, they must be best friends!”

    just stop, this is sad.

  • Dfrance

    Heck no it wasn’t a given. “LeBron and Wade play the same way, can the play together” “How will Bosh adjust going from the main guy, to the 3rd guy” “How will the Heat fill out their roster after spending most of their cap on the Big 3?” “Can Chalmers be a reliable starting PG”

    These were all concerns once he made that announcement. Actually, the Big 3 are the only ones who assumed they would win multiple titles.

  • http://soundcloud.com/tray-8 T-Ray

    They hunt and it’s pretty damn vicious once they catch the prey. They pretty much run you to death then it’s feeding time.

  • shockexchange

    The Shock Exchange never said what you thought he said Lake, so there’s no need to get your dander up. Just like the Shock Exchange would never say that 6’6″ centers during Jordan’s era never actually saw the court – they were too busy bagging groceries. SE would never say that because people might get upset.

  • pposse

    haha c’mon man. Talent always wins out in the NBA. You all can look at the stat sheet all you want, talent always wins out. You and anyone else who thought they woulnd’t win are all in the minority on that one.

  • davidR

    i think the point he’s trying to make is, centers today aren’t really centers, even if they are 7’0”

  • pposse

    hey guy how about you explain to me how KAJ and Lebron’s trade requests were similar again? Or you can’t so you engage in this back and forth? okay…carry on.

  • chingy

    My guess is that Lebron has always wanted to strive to be GOAT, even when he was in highschool or a rookie in the league. But it’s just more recently after winning couple chips, that he truly believes that he can be GOAT (or one of the GOATs) so he feels comfortable saying it out to the media.

  • LakeShow

    The only time where there has been prevalent “small” big men was in the 60′s, and 70′s.(Wes Unseld, Dave Cowens)

    Do you think Height matters anyway?

    Was Rodman, Barkley, or Ben Wallace hampered by their size? No.
    It actually helped them in some ways. If you are small, and playing the center position, it’s because your better at the bigger guys at doing it.

    So it’s a useless argument anyway.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    uhm, they both seeked out better situations in the middle of their careers.
    .
    next?

  • chingy

    Are you saying the past 3 years, DWade was the second best player in the world? I think that title goes to Durant.

  • pposse

    and continue to not respnd to that post, or the questions posed in it cause you probably can’t. In fact you constantly skip over questions you can’t answer or acknowledge them probably cause its not an advanced stat.

  • chingy

    Lion King tells me they hunt!

  • LakeShow

    Well then he should say that then, shouldn’t he?

    What does that even mean anyway?

    Brook Lopez, Dwight Howard, Marc Gasol, Hibbert, Horford, Chandler, Bogut, Demarcus Cousins, Noah, Asik, Kaman… those are legit centers.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    “how about you explain to me how KAJ and Lebron’s trade requests were similar again?”

    “they both seeked out better situations in the middle of their careers.”

    what? i directly answered your question. you need to relax or something, it’s affecting your ability to read and respond.

  • davidR

    he speaks in riddles and analogies. personally i kinda enjoy them. it’s different

    not tryna nitpick, but horford isnt a legit center. and noah probably isnt either. i guess compared to the 90s centers they wouldnt be, but in todays age they are. (dwight could fall into that PF but a C category too).

    i guess the point being, theres only a small handful of centers that actually play as centers: they anchor the D and make slashers think twice about going to the bucket. there aren’t many defensive anchors these days, at least compared to the 90s. i guess thats the point hes making

  • chingy

    And don’t forget about the illegal defense rule back in the day whereas now, players can clog the lane a bit easier.

  • pposse

    the thread i am talking about is directly below this one, its not necessary for me sit there and point to the comment and the question and your stupidity in bringing KAJ and classify his actions with Lebrons.

  • LakeShow

    Hoford is a legit center. He can just play either position and the PF slightly more effectively.

    I left off Pau Gasol even though he is a legit center.

    How in the hell would Noah not be a center at some point in L history. He’s a legit center in any era.

    WTH?? Dwight Howard a PF??!! Dude, you’re speaking in riddles now…

    Tim Duncan, Roy Hibbert, Dwight Howard, Noah, are top notch anchors in any era…

    I’m very confused by this whole bit.

  • LakeShow

    Why did I read that? What did that article prove?

  • LakeShow

    Can you help me understand Shock’s “he dunked on 7 footers, but today’s players are dunking on 6’6″ centers like Chuck Hayes” shtick??
    You agree with him and you are more sane, so maybe you can help me understand wth he’s talking about.

  • thebossman15

    “horry jr”……..slam should revoke your commenting privileges and disqus should not allow you too further comment on any forum, you stupid human being

  • pposse

    Jordans leadership and the type of tutor he was.

  • shockexchange

    How did you know who the Shock Exchange was referring to when he mentioned “Horry Jr”? He never mentioned the player’s name specifically. *Edit* You should also read the SLAM discussion rules before calling someone “stupid.”

  • LakeShow

    That article did nothing to prove those things.

    Sounds like, if anything, it shows why Steve Kerr is a legit NBA baller.

  • pposse

    be serious did you read this or no?

    “We had this incredible sense of drive that came from Michael but that permeated through the whole team,” says Kerr.

  • Evan Boland

    That’s what NBK, danpowers, caboose, etc will never get about Lebron.

  • pposse

    1. Kareem wanted to be famous, winning was not even a factor – so why in the world would you bring up Kareem wanting to be traded and compare that to Lebron situation or anyone else?!

    2. You holding a young magic to a matured lebron is again foolish…be rational (you like that word right?)

    3. There is a difference and you stated them, just accept it bro.

  • pposse

    if Durant were to play alongside Lebron these past three yrs would you still say that?

  • LakeShow

    Why would I just act like I read it. It was short, of course I read it, and I’ve read it before anyway…

    MJ’s style of leadership was by example, no different than Kobe, Bird, Oscar. He wasn’t the tutoring type or the type to help you through things, he was the “try to live up to my expectations” type of leader.

    Of course it was good for Pippen and Kukoc to be around MJ. It’s always good to be around the greatest player ever, but no I don’t think he was wildly integral to their individual success.

    Now answer my question above please…

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    1 – point is Kareem left one situation for a better one. Why do I have to repeat myself? No two situations are the same. You aren’t so stupid in reality that you can’t recognize this, so why are you being so stupid here?

    2 – same

    3 – yes, differences. Albeit, not any different in terms of the end game. Again, the whole point.

  • pposse

    3. Thank you. like i stated in the second post to you which really got this thread going..

    Lebron’s Motto: The ends justify the means.
    -Lebron went to Miami in and teamed with superstars for championships, this was shady..
    -You, and your followers are clearly of this ilk. Which is fine btw, but realize most do not operate in this manner.

    Everyday Joes’ motto: The means justify the ends.
    -Kareem going to LA was to become famous, not to win championships.

  • http://www.slamonline.com/ Nick Tha Quick

    In many cases, hyenas actually do the hunting and lions wait around then straight Debo their kills. Lions hunts are generally unsuccessful, if you look at the percentages, because they rely so much on ambush and being able to get within striking distance of their prey.
    Hyenas however, have amazing endurance and can take turns chasing down prey so they are almost guaranteed to get a kill. They also scavenge and Debo kills from weaker predators like cheetahs and leopards. Documentaries and media rarely show hyenas in a favourable light. Evidently, they share the same PR guy with Dwight.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    So are you agreeing the end justifies the means or not?
    .
    If it does, then him “teaming up” isn’t shady. It’s justified.
    - “most don’t operate under this manner” lol, really? They don’t? You don’t choose where you work? If you get 2 job offers you don’t take the better one?
    .
    Someone doesn’t have a very firm grip on reality.

  • chingy

    I think so. Remember that Durant also plays with another ball dominant player in Westbrook. Besides, Lebron is a better and more willing passer than Westbrook is so I think it’s safe to assume that Durant with Lebron won’t change much in their status as the best and second best players in the L.

  • pposse

    well from my understand The Shock Exchange is very old school and correct about a lot the nuances of basketball. He rightfully believes that basketball is won by big men which is probably why he chastitses your guy kobe for not winning as much with Bynum and Pau (the goat to him is KAJ). If your big and your skilled your a front runner for the championship, the only thing left is for you to not be a knuckle head and play bball in the right way and you should win (if your a big man). My guess is a lot like what DavidR initially told you that C’s dont play like Centers back in the day.

    But when you started to list off some of the Centers that play today I came to a realization that there is an abundance of Centers that can potentially play at very high levels. I still think C’s from the 90′s and 80′s were better, offenses ran through them more than pg’s. With MJ i think Shock was just trying to reiterate that like you said MJ led by example and played against tougher competition (but he didnt say that cause it would cause a ‘mutiny’).

  • pposse

    no i like most people think the means justify the ends.

    If i have a dead end job, and I want to move up my thinking is to start applying (the means) if i get a new offer that is better than my current one i will take it (the ends).

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    so your argument is literally that it is morally wrong to leave a bad situation for a better one, but only if you are a basketball player.
    .
    free agency would be “starting applying” (the means) – Miami being the offer better than Cleveland that LeBron took (the ends)
    .
    there is literally no difference.

  • Slick Ric

    I agree with Lebron on this point, never liked when people acted as if he had to be MJ or Kobe to be great when the Kobe/Lebron argument was relevant, there are other examples of extremely successful players and their “killer instincts”. With that being said, he’s 2-2 in the finals with 3 of his finals performances not being that impressive to me. I want to see consistent greatness in the finals, its make no sense to me how he’s the greatest player as of now without question but performs below expectations in most of his finals appearances.

  • Evan Boland

    MJ played against Ewing, Robinson, Hakeem, Kareem, Shaq, etc.. Lebron goes up against Dwight.

  • Mike From Spain

    SE, that dog hunt

  • pposse

    your operating under the pre tenses that wade bosh lebron didn’t know they were going to do this from 2008 USA basketball team, which many rightfully imo believe. IF what i am saying is true, then Lebron probably could have cared less what happened in the summer of 08 in Cleveland or the summer of 09 which was clear he didn’t.

    And who is to say that was the best situation for him, now there are always going to be doubters like myself or anyone else thatll rightfully have points when they say he contracted the league with that decision.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    “Lebron probably could have cared less what happened in the summer of 08 in Cleveland or the summer of 09 which was clear he didn’t.” – want to prove that? if it’s so clear.

    i don’t want to get into the rest of what you feel. you either don’t know the history of the NBA or are purposefully being a hypocrite. and no, i’m not going into more detail explaining it to you, just know i’m content with this being your own personal issue that you will likely never get over. say whatever you want from here forward to me about this, i’m done. you think LeBron contracted the league by doing something that has always been going down. fine, that’s how you feel. i apologize for trying to interject.

  • shockexchange

    LOL.

  • Lenin-Gil Phillips

    Discovery Channel rarely puts on animal shows, mostly redneck shows are on

  • Mike From Spain

    Go home, you’re drunk

  • Mike From Spain
  • pposse

    another bron bron stan ..

  • LakeShow

    Do you watch ball man?

    Hibbert
    Tyson
    Lopez
    Noah
    Gasol
    etc…

  • pposse

    in the history of the NBA never has anyone with the stature as near as Lebron James joined 2 other prime versatile ball players. Unless you want to take it to the 70′s or 60′s. The history of which does not matter. You do not know what you are talking about and completely flip flopped your stance. Your right you are done, go to sleep.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    “in the history of the NBA never has anyone with the stature as near as Lebron James”

    so….Michael Jordan.

    well in that case, you are right. got it, my position flipped, yep. it was somewhere around that “means justify the ends” part right? where you blatantly contradicted yourself? or was it where i said players choosing a better position for themselves professionally is completely understandable and normal and carried on that narrative through all of your circular reasoning?.. or was it where you said that stuff about 08 and 09 being “so clear” and then blatantly ignored the follow up question to prove what you are talking about?

  • LakeShow

    What does it matter if centers are not the same as they use to be?

    It means nothing. The L changes. It’s probably headed towards it’s overall peak.

    Defenses are better, and there are more individually talented defenders today than the 90′s.

    I just am not understanding why you would support the comment that we are in a “league full of 6’6″ centers.”

    That’s pure fanaticism and you concurred with it.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    the best part is that the whole issue about wing defenders is always ignored. the toughest perimeter defender Jordan went up against in the 90s (aside from Gary Payton) was freaking Byron Russell and Dan Majerle/Richard Dumas……LOL

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    if talent always wins out, then you clearly understand why LeBron had to leave Cleveland. And agree, if winning is what is most important, then leaving Cleveland was more than justified.
    .
    but hey, contradict yourself again.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    nobody is arguing that.

  • davidR

    horford to me is more a PF that has to play out of position at center. he only gets away with it because there aren’t enough true centers to punish him for playing out of position

    pau is definitely a center.

    noah to me comes off more as dennis rodman than a center. but i’ll give you that. he is good enough to play center effectively in any era.

    the original point is: attacking the lane back then was a lot harder than it is now. especially with the majority of teams in the 90s having good-great centers that all played defense, versus now where there’s only a handful of good-great centers that anchor the defense.

    i dunno man, i’m just trying to explain shock’s point of 6’6” centers lol

  • shockexchange

    There you davidR, hide behind the Shock Exchange’s skirt. LOL.

  • Ross Fawcett

    Lebron is weak

  • LakeShow

    Who the hell is Richard Dumas?? haha

    Man… listing great wing defenders of the last 10-15 years is an impressive group of guys. REALLY impressive.

  • LakeShow

    Informative, thank you..
    All around weak, or just legs, or bench press?

  • Bruce Wayne

    Right system? Not sure how much you know about the game, but any a system has to be executed by the players, first and foremost.

    And the right time? You mean at a time when obscene hand checking and personal fouls that would be automatic ejections in today’s game were commonplace even in the regular season not to mention playoffs? Cmon man!

  • Bruce Wayne

    Uh, is a SINGLE one of the centers you just named a Hall of Famer? Didn’t think so

  • LakeShow

    You do know there are much more capable wing defenders today though right?

    The center position might not be as talented as it once was, but every other position is on par or ahead of yester-year.

    It might be easier once at the rim to finish, but it’s harder to actually get to the rim now.

  • danpowers

    see the stat below.

  • LakeShow

    I don’t think you can play in the L while being a hall of famer…

    If I had to guess:
    Hibbert is too young to guess.
    Tyson won’t make the cut.
    Howard will be for sure.
    Noah has a good chance too if he helps the Bulls to a chip or two.
    Gasol might, hard to say.

    We have the convenience of 20 years away from the era we are talking about so we know how their careers ended. We’re at the beginning or middle of these guys careers.

  • Butternuts

    what an entertaining series of ridiculously self contradicting statements you have prepared and delivered to us. Thanks dude

  • danpowers

    i beg to differ. clyde drexler wasnt too shebby on D. miller, sprewell, gill n starks also gave everything against him and you cant say they did a bad job or were bad wing defenders.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Drexler was an oversight. Although Scottie Pippen was wearing him out on the other end.
    .
    Starks was lunch meat. And he was basically Monta Ellis physically.

    Gill, Sprewell? What…when he was on the Wizards?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    It really really is

  • muggsybogues

    You’re nuts, like seriously go get a prescription

  • danpowers

    uhm, gill the whole 90s and sprewell since 92. that was cannon fodder in the early 90s but remember that there were like 4 years and 3 titles between mjs wizards stint and his first threepeat?

    edit: youre right about starks’ physique but he wasnt a bad defender and the knicks team defense wasnt really the worst of these times and yes, i call it team defense even for the times of illegal defense.

  • muggsybogues

    Wait – ur not a 15 year old?!

  • Bruce Wayne

    You’re kinda missing my point..Hakeem, Kareem, Ewing, Shaq, Robinson, etc were all franchise players that were the best or top 2 players on their teams who all (besides Ewing) led their teams to MULTIPLE titles..Mj was playing against all of them (besides Kareem) and beating all of them as the best player on HIS team, which is mind boggling to consider.. The current crop of guys simply are not on that level, and even in 20 yrs, I don’t see that being the case, IMO

  • LakeShow

    Why do you think it’s the centers job to stop big time wing scorers?

    We have the most talented wing defenders ever now.

  • pposse

    list them.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Talking about in the playoffs on the way to the finals. Not just in general, and regardless, if those are the best names you can think of (Sprewell was awesome) then that kinda proves my point. .
    Anyway, those Knicks were great team defenses, especially for that era. Some people still argue that the 93 team is a top 3 defensive team all time. But John Starks was one of their worst defenders, he was average in this era at very best.

  • pposse

    what about Michael Jordan? If I remember correctly and if you stop acting so naive you will REALIZE that MJ Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant had probably been teammates for 1,000 plus days before they sniffed the finals. Hence the means (practicing with your teammates for days on end, getting each other better, blood sweat tears) justified the ends (finals).

    Lebron Wade Bosh, were with each other for what? 300 days before they got to the finals? Just stop. Their means (practicing for less than a year) does not justify the ends (finals).

    And one more thing, in 08 and 09 Lebron never gave an indication to Cleveland what he would do, the owner Dan Gilbert wanted/ needed to know in order to make smart business decisions for the organization that he owns. Sure it was Lebron’s right to do what he wanted, but being whom he was he would wear Yankee caps, talk about the Dallas Cowboys or house shopping in Chicago then talking about how he loves Akron. He led the owner on, why else would some man go on twitter and rant for hours…shout out to world wide wes you and lebron made this discussion board a world wide mess.

  • pposse

    i dont have a doctor, obama care? are you qualified what you reccomend shorty?

  • pposse

    you don’t look 15 still? congrats

  • pposse

    4 people thought it was lol.

  • pposse

    I think it matters. But more or less Centers are being taken out of the game of basketball. In my opinion this all started to happen as soon as the defensive rules started to change. Centers are normally bigger, slow footed and require deep post position but all of those advantages get taken away with zone. But is all good, cause the poster boy for the NBA isn’t Wilt or KAJ anymore, its Kobe and Lebron.

    In fact zones (shout to d wade, that player niiice) are now being exploited by explosive athletic ball players who split them with the easiness; more appealing to watch sure. My opinion is that the game demands more athleticism from every position now than ever before, but i dont think that equates with better basketball playing. There might be better individually talented defenders but its hard to tell bc of the new defensive schemes that can be run.

    I support Shocks comments cause Centers are simply not allowed to play the way they historically were able to. If someone comes down the lane recklessly they get rewarded instead of getting thrown on their a$$es hence the 6’6” centers (cause thats what the height they are forced to play at)

  • pposse

    OR Cleveland could have and would have brought in someone…i dont know maybe Chris Bosh comes over there? But instead he hedged his move by going to an already set playoff team. For whatever reason i have to spell everything out to you. Wade was playing at Bron levels, that was his competition that was the guy who gave up a shot at what lebron is now for lebron to be lebron the guy everyone is talking about but okay. You nor anyone with lebron reflectors can see this and will continue to think that i contradict myself..go right ahead sir.

  • pposse

    i disagree, Lebron and Durant would have the same early struggles but eventually within one season get to the finals. And Wade would be so much more motivated every day to whoop those two and would have been a completely different player.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    LeBron isn’t Jordan. He doesn’t have to do things like Jordan did. You get that right? I just realized your issue….you don’t understand that things can be different, and even possibly better. Lol it’s that simple dude. And I have no idea why you went on that rant about Jordan in the first place. Read better. That’s all you have to do.
    Why would LeBron give an indication to Cleveland what he was going to do? If they were yet to add any elite level talent around him, why the f*ck would he commit to the team? And if he was willing to give them a chance to acquire that talent, why would he tell them he’s leaving? Have you ever actually thought this through? Seriously the simplicity of the situation is so damn easy it’s rather pathetic that you don’t see what is right in front of you, blind hate has never been more obvious.

  • Evan Boland

    Are you comparing those guys to the HOF’s I mentioned?

  • Evan Boland

    MJ “just happened to be in the right system at the right time”? Is that a joke? You’re a moron. MJ is the GOAT for many reasons, least of all of them being him “in the right system at the right time”.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    They turned down Amare for JJ Hickson, only to go for Antawn Jamison. They wasted free agent money on Shaq. Then Chris Bosh turned them down. Even if LeBron stayed. And no. Wade was at the tail end of his peak, explosive scoring guards with little to no jump shot don’t age well, which at 31 he is proving. And since LeBron is the best wing since Jordan, having a guy like LeBron really cushions that descent. It probably benefits Wade in the long run. Just like Pippen benefitted from Jordan.

  • Evan Boland

    Yes that’s completely true I just bring up the interior D to offset the fact that EVERYONE brings up the poor wing defenders to knock Jordan down. Some people think Lebron would’ve been average in the 90′s and some people think Jordan would be worse than Kobe in this generation. It’s futile to bother with. No one know’s. Jordan also put up 22ppg in 35min at 39 in 2002. He dropped 40 on Pierce who Lebron has notoriously battled with.

  • Evan Boland

    Dominance

  • Evan Boland

    We’ll never know so it’s not really worth anything.

  • pposse

    there is zero evidence that points to Lebron, Wade or anyone to to know Wade was at the tail end of his peak. Wade was a career %48-%50 shooter before Lebron and I highly doubt they were as deep into efficiency stats back then as they are now.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Got to Jordan’s game log with the Wizards and look at the game after he scored in single digits – my thing is, like you said, you can’t really know exactly how he’d do or either would do, it’s just safe to assume the greats in one generation, with the advancements in the game, yadda yadda, they would be greats today and vice versa. So we have to just take players for what they are today, and then try and stack their accomplishments and skills up within context.

  • pposse

    every former player critisized lebron’s move until the NBA told them all to shut up. Its a competitive thing, your the one that keeps on bringing up Jordan not I. I’d rather not but when you do … the evidence although circumstantial as in the case of DH points to Lebron never even really considering staying in Cleveland. People around the league even said that if this was the case, Lebron should have went to the owner and told him up front so that Cleveland can prepare to make moves instead of the whole decision.

  • grgeblck

    Why score all the points when you have 4 other players playing with you?

  • grgeblck

    Oh wow, not just Lebron, but even God is involved now.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Oh and Richard Dumas started at SF for Phoenix the year they lost to Chicago in the finals. He was really really talented. But cocaine ruined his career.

  • Bruce Wayne

    Seriously? Who is standing there at the rim after even the best wing defenders get beat? There is a reason why the term “rim protector” exists..look at the list of those legendary centers..basically all of them were..

    Besides, I never even said anything about who is defending who in terms of individual match ups. My original point was that the list of current centers that was listed really isn’t in the same stratosphere as the older generation of guys. Not that it’s a huge knock on them..those older guys are all of the top 10-15 of all time at the position.

  • http://signup.divinerenergy.com/ Anthony Dixon

    what if Portland would have drafted Jordan instead of Sam Bowie?

  • http://signup.divinerenergy.com/ Anthony Dixon

    so you telling me Jordan would have installed Phils Triangle offense anywhere?

  • King David

    he has no killer insinct

  • danpowers

    “Talking about in the playoffs on the way to the finals.”

    well, youre right, he didnt have to face THAT many great wing defenders. but when he did, he was up to the task.

    they are one of the top defensive teams of all time, if they only had just one more capable scorer on that roster… *sigh*

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Well I still have him as the goat so obviously I don’t really care that he didn’t, just the way it is.

  • http://triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    LION KING…LeBrons new nicname?

  • Evan Boland

    He woulda been the GOAT.

  • http://signup.divinerenergy.com/ Anthony Dixon

    lol i disagree but its cool.

  • Bruce Wayne

    Are you telling me that you can plug 5 horrible players into a triangle offense and win a title?

  • Evan Boland

    Different meaning NON-EXISTANT

  • JD

    Looney tunes tells me they are cartoon.

  • havoc33

    It’s nitpicking, but that graphic is outdated I believe. Lebron went 1-3 in the Finals.

  • http://signup.divinerenergy.com/ Anthony Dixon

    What? No which backs my point

  • C.M.G

    he still is a 48%-50% shooter, when healthy.

  • C.M.G

    or you insinuating that dwade has been the 2nd best player in the league the last three years?? thats insane…..

  • pposse

    i’m saying you never know how great he could have been. He literally had to tone down his game for Lebron to flourish. He said it, Lebron said it, Pat Riley said it. Its irritating to hear all of this Lebron praise at the expense of D Wade. The mob acts like Wade hasn’t been a stepping stone for Lebron’s greatness or think that he would have shot %56 in the regular season w/out him. D Wade being the person he is and the ego he has has done something no one in the history of the game ever done, and that was relinquish his control of the game. No one was ever asked to do what D Wade was asked to do in the history of the game.

  • C.M.G

    at the end of the day if lebron didnt go to south beach, then the heat wouldnt be back to back champions today. i dont think anybody said dwade didnt play a part in that, but without lebron it doesnt happen, as dwade has been a shadow of himself in the last two post-seasons. so actually the only year the heat possibly coulda made noise in the play-offs without lebron is when they played they lost to the mavs in the finals. bc wades 15ppg wouldnt of got’em there. and dwade did the right thing toning down his game for the most dominant and efficient player in the league. if you look at it from your view, you could actually say lebron has helped wades legacy….bc without him on that team, they lose to the pacers last year, and the lose to the celtics the year before that EC-semi-finals. nobody discrediting wade tho….ppl just call it how they see it.

  • pposse

    so when Wade dropped 23 pts and 10 rebs in game 7 of the finals against the spurs he was just a ‘shadow’ of himself. Or when Wade singly handedly sent the Pacers packing the year before with a 40 pt outburst he was a shadow of himself. Your right about one thing, Wade is a shadow…we sometimes forget that there is one or that it follows us everywhere we go. Wade helped lebron’s legacy more than anything, Wade’s was already cemented, he didn’t need anymore championships to cement his as a top 5 sg of all time. Wade’s legacy is capped. There is 0 chance he catches MJ or Kobe..maybe he catches Jerry West without Lebron but imo he was already a better player than West ever was.

  • C.M.G

    your right he did drop 40 on the pacers AND STILL averaged 15ppg in the play-offs, and he did drop 23 and 10 against the spurs…..He still averaged around or less than 15ppg….he played two great games in the last years in the play-offs combined. but you have to be consistent though. were those the only two play-off games you watched of the heat in the past two years??

  • pposse

    lol no they weren’t the only games i watched, but this is where the disconnect happens. For one Wade was hurt during the playoffs..and secondly if we are just looking at the playoffs then why is so much made of Lebrons %56 shooting when in the playoffs he shot 49%? or his stellar 31.5 PER and the 3.5 dropoff in PER or whatever that is. He was less efficient in almost across the board, maybe better numbers but yet the hyperbole is Lebron is this ultra efficient ball player. My opinion is that the dropoff in his efficiency is clearly cause of Wade ability or lack thereof due to his injuries.

  • C.M.G

    your completely right. lebrons PER did drop….mainly because defenses dont have to focus on wade because when he is injured he doesnt produce like we all know he can…..so obviously defenses will focus more on lebron….and one could argue that his PER drops because the level of talent you face in the playoffs is FAR greater than what u see in the regular season. if the heat faced the pacers and spurs for 82 games its obvious he wouldnt be as efficient. and lebron has posted the single most efficient season in NBA HISTORY…so its plausible that some would see him as a ultra efficient player….

  • pposse

    one can also argue that your PER increases with the level of talent you have around you. Talent that continuously gets undermined with the Lebron is the most efficient player ever hyperbole. I don’t deny bron is an exceptional ball player btw just that he is hogging some of the spot light lol.

  • Askal

    I totally agree with you on this. I honestly acknowledge that lebron is the greatest player now and in his generation and will be placed among the greats but he will never surpass MJ as the GOAT! MJ had a storyline career and and acheivement wise, MJ has LBJ checked no matter how may MvPs LBJ wins. And if were going to talk about being an all-around player, please tell me here forgot MJ once averaged 30-8-8 and also defensive demon in a season, and some more LBJesque seasons stat wise and while also leading in scoring? Plus undefeated in the finals? Oh abf about mVP counts, MJ played in an era where almost all of thr all-timegreats are playing.

  • LakeShow

    Over the last 10 years there have been a plethora of shot blocking, shot altering players:

    Yao Ming
    Shaq
    Mutombo
    Jermaine O’Neil
    Marcus Camby
    Marc Gasol
    Andrew Bynum
    Ben Wallace
    Rasheed Wallace
    Webber
    Serge Ibaka
    Illgauskas
    Duncan
    Garnett
    Tyson Chandler
    Larry Sanders
    Dwight Howard
    Okafor
    Alonzo Mourning
    Noah

    That’s just quickly off the top of my head…

    Duh, they aren’t as good as Hakeem, Ewing and so on, but quit acting like no one has to think about going into the paint twice these days…

  • LakeShow

    no, read.

  • LakeShow

    That’s all fine and good. But defenses are better now than ever.

    It equals out the lack of dominating centers, is my point.

  • chingy

    So you’re telling me Wade taking even more of a role will somehow be easier on his already battered body? Wade will be falling down 70 times and getting up 80!

    But agree to disagree…

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    uhm, let me repeat myself,

    .

    ” explosive scoring guards with little to no jump shot don’t age well”

    we don’t need “evidence” from Wade directly. It’s a staple of players with his subset of skills.

  • pposse

    im sure world wide Wes informed Lebron of that before he decided to come and revive Wade’s career.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    you realize world wide wes is essentially a normal joe right?

  • pposse

    just like everyone else LBJ takes advice from outside of jay z? yeah sure.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    ok? you have resorted to focusing on this? your argument has fallen apart this much?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    hey dumbass, weren’t you just going on about Derrick Rose definitely being the 2nd best player in the world, arguably the best, idk, yesterday? you didn’t even include Wade in the conversation.
    .
    but now that the Wade is #2 in the world stance supports your argument, look at that.
    .
    anymore contradictions you want to throw out there?

  • pposse

    no i just do not see what you are getting at. You are telling A. telling me that sg’s historically breakdown after age 31 – but you completely negate mentioning that Wade is a historic ball player. He is not like every other sg before him…there might just be 3 sgs that are better than him and B. it seems that somehow Lebron is privy to this information about sg’s breaking down who have no jumpshot.

    So naturally, i pondered..how in the hell would lebron be smart enough to realize then come and rescue Wade before his career falls apart (like his jump shot)…and the only conclusion i came up with was WWW aka Trips must have told him.

  • pposse

    imo Wade is a top 5 ball player. He can’t be #2 the same way Durant can’t be #2 if he played alongside James. There is only one bball to go around. If i have to exaggerate here and there to get a pt across i will and i probably should.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i am not negating anything.

    you said this, “that was the guy who gave up a shot at what lebron is now” – i responded to show you why Wade never had a chance at being THIS good. jeez man, do you have the attention span of a 10 year old?

    you pondered this, and didn’t just come to the conclusion that this is the season they were free agents, and had the opportunity to sign in the same place? they are best friends, who both had the opportunity, FOR THE FIRST TIME, to team up. SO they took it. It’s not very complicated. Just like all the other things you try and make way way more complicated then they are. He’s not saving him at the nick of time. They joined each other at the first opportunity. Simple. Stop over thinking the every situation…..

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    if your exaggerating contradicts what you are saying, it sure as sh*t shouldn’t be done. makes you look like a moron. — i don’t actually think you are dumb at all, i rather think you are very intelligent. But i do think you let your personal feelings really get in the way of your judgement

  • pposse

    best friends? i call bs. Maybe in the NBA but Wade might not have even known Lebron back when they were growing up. Did they play eachother in any AAU games in hs? I mean c’mon. This is like the OJ Simpson trial or something, them signing the same extension at the same time and then publicly telling Carmello to do the same thing just has way way too much circumstantial evidence pointing to collusion. I’m not going to take them to trial or anything so i don’t need better than circumstantial evidence to come to a conclusion…you may not like that philosophy but that’s fine by me. And then this other great quote from these two guys earlier today trying to paint KG and Terry as of the same ilk as themselves and Ray Ray just keeps mounting against them. Its cool tho Wade in all likelihood will grow up resenting the choices he helped Lebron make.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    you don’t have to know someone growing up to be extremely close to them. they both have been very up front about how close they have been as friends since they came into the league. And LeBron called Wade his best friend like 2 weeks ago.
    .
    they told Carmelo to do the same thing? you mean, to team up with elite talent? you do realize, once they are free agents, they can talk to whoever they want……right?
    .
    KG had a choice. He chose to go to Brooklyn, but only if he could bring Pierce (this for sure), and supposedly Terry (this not for sure) with him. He CHOSE to “team up” in Brooklyn. It’s not different.

  • pposse

    I was talking about the 3 yr rookie contract extension Wade, Bosh, and Lebron signed after their third yr. Melo opted for the 5 yr max. This is when i used to watch sportscenter, everyone on sportscenter was saying that it was shocking cause these guys didn’t sign the max deal and then it came out that they were trying to advise Melo to do the same thing so potential 4 FA’s all superstar talent worthy (obviously Bosh hasn’t gotten to that level yet but has potential) No player before these guys acted in this manner, its just real strange if you ask me. Yes I know Bron and Wade are best friends, thats fine and all, i mean they better be!

  • pposse

    when Ray Allen joined the Heat is when it occurred to me that the Heat and Lebron are monopolzing the NBA. They created a culture where everyone wants to play with them instead of beat them.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    it’s not strange at all. goodness man.
    .
    by signing the shorter contract, it allowed them to get the larger, “max” extension sooner. so by saving a year on their initial salary, they were actually reserving the right to make about $3 million more than Melo in that last season (which obviously didn’t happen, as they didn’t sign true “max” extensions and none of them remained with their teams to get that extra boost of money). but that was the reasoning behind that, MORE MONEY. Melo wanted more guaranteed money, in essence, he didn’t bet on himself being healthy.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    really? that didn’t happen when Chicago got Dennis Rodman? or when the Lakers got Gary Payton and Karl Malone? How about when Boston got James Posey? Or when the Spurs got Michael Finley?
    .
    sorry buddy, but once again, you don’t know or don’t care about the history of the NBA. contenders getting veterans at the tail end of their career is just as normal as superstars dictating where they play.

  • pposse

    Rodman was a defensive specialist who couldn’t hang onto a job if his life depended on it. Half the teams didn’t even want his baggage. I never ever said anything about other teams doing this..in fact i believe bron and wade teamed up to begin with bc of the formation of bostons big three and things going on in la la land. Ray Allen could have done whatever he wanted, but the whole recruiting part and the fact he let go of 3 million per year to join just makes you wonder. If i was an auditor i’d push to see ray ray’s financial records. Its the same reason i as a fan (and i mean damn can a fan comment on here?!) of the nba I never liked the lakers. James Posey and Michael Finley i won’t respond to.. Michael Finley at the time he went to the spurs I always felt would just hurt the team, very similar to the way VC is at an advanced age imo.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    James Posey and Michael Finley both initially signed for less than Market Value and helped their teams win a championship. However you felt doesn’t change how it was.
    .
    Ray Allen signed for slightly below market value (he wasn’t getting anymore than the MLE, which was $5.5 million, for a guy who has made over $180,000,000.000 in his career, 2 mill, isn’t really a big deal. especially if that means competing for a title, it’s no different.
    .
    Rodman was actually traded to Chicago. he was just 34, age was the issue, but he was traded in contract negotiations. San Antonio missed out on the finals by 2 games, so he was uhm, a very important player on a contender. he had injury issues that season (and other “issues”), but he averaged 14.8 rebounds a game, and again, helped them contend for a title. If you want to qualify it because he was Dennis Rodman then whatever. But he was still an elite level player giving in on contract negotiations for “less” (actually his contract was the same, but he wanted a raise) money to play with the heavy favorite for the next championship. again, it’s not really different.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    you never know

  • Bruce Wayne

    You’ve taken the convo to a completely different place so I’ll just leave it alone smh

  • Bruce Wayne

    Yes Evan he was, which is what prompted all of my responses

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