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Saturday, December 7th, 2013 at 6:50 pm  |  46 responses

Michael Carter-Williams Hospitalized With Infected Knee


Since recording his first triple-double this week, Michael Carter-Williams has been sidelined with a skin infection in his right knee, which MCW believes he contracted after knocking knees with a Pistons player on December 1. Carter-Williams is being treated for soreness and swelling in his knee and will spend his third consecutive night in the University of Pennsylvania hospital tonight:

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  • Chubachuchi

    Hope it isn’t that serious he’s been the ROY pack leader by far.

  • TRUTH

    I know this won’t deter him. He’ll be back to his usual hard-playing self after this heals. #ROY.

  • The Mauve Avenger

    Cases of infection can be very serious sporadically and I hope this isn’t one of those instances. He’s a good kid and I hope he can get back to work soon.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    staph infection most likely

  • spit hot fiyah

    had a staph infection in my knee once that caused my leg to swell up. one of the most painful things i have experienced. and then having to cut it open to empty it out was awful, i screamed like crazy

  • Chester

    sounds horrible. hopefully it wasn’t one of these infections

  • Ugh

    If your medical diagnoses are as good as your hermeneutics MCW could have anything from eczema to leukaemia.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    lol Please elaborate.

    the most likely diagnosis is a staph infection. I don’t have the medical history. I don’t have the physical history information. I don’t have the laboratory info. Read from his statement “bumped into player” it sounds staph. Even before reading that statement i based info on prevalence data.

    if you are an evangelical christian, then all I ask is one question if you were born to an ebionite or marcionite family how would you derive the trinitarian nature? Actually let’s make it easier: why would God allow for forgeries to enter the Bible like last 12 verses of Gospel of Mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwBVcsWYJd8

  • Max

    Having to spend nights in the hospital is just the worst.

  • spit hot fiyah

    hopefully not. i could hardly walk. i was mentally preparing my self for amputation.

  • Ugh

    Let’s say the last twelve verses in Mark are forgeries, then.
    That means that Mark has at least two authors – the genuine author (who may or may not be “Mark”) and an impostor.

    1a) This doesn’t prove that the last twelve verses were an attempt to replace part of the original manuscript that had been lost and by someone who intended a genuine representation of what was lost. (This happens in modern literature when an author dies with only a small amount of work to finish a novel, for example, and a ghost writer finishes the text from the authors notes.)

    1b) Finding contradictory passages between the ‘genuine’ and ‘forged’ text would create a problem for the integrity of the text.

    1c) There are contradictory passages in Genesis and Leviticus that I can think of off the top of my head, so why is an contradiction, if it exists, between the body and end of Mark important?

    1d) There are enormous contradictions between Luke and Mark in the beginning of both texts, why start at the end of Mark?

    2) The ‘forgery’ doesn’t prove that the last twelve verses of Mark aren’t a correct description of events or gospel or theology of Christ. Even if the forgery author made it up, it could still be accurate.

    3) This doesn’t prove that the ‘genuine’ part of Mark an accurate description of events or gospel or theology of Christ. Even if the forgery author intends to deceive, the rest of Mark could be an inaccurate, implausible or deceitful description of events, gospel or theology of Christ, meaning that all of the text is so.

    4) This doesn’t prove or disprove the accuracy of anything else in the Bible other than one book may have ‘forged’ authorship. Everything else in the Bible could be true, or it could be false, or it could be a mixture of both. If I change one page in The Lord Of The Rings it’s still a work of fiction.

    5) The idea of a part of the Bible being forged doesn’t take into account an enormous body of research done into the assembly of the Bible as canon of Christianity, which is full of claims of disputed authorship, historical inaccuracy, redundancy, contradiction, propaganda and lies. Why start with the end of Mark?

    6) This idea also doesn’t account for the possibility that the power of the Bible lies outside the reliability of the passages in it, meaning that a disputed series of verses have little to no impact on the value of the Bible even if proven forged or incorrect.

    Do I need to go on, or are you getting the picture of why I think your hermeneutics skills are a bit poor?

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    How is theology of the ebionites or marcionites and view of Jesus peace be upon him false? What a gentile derived doctrine makes their view heretical?

    I agree with you there has been a lot of biblical scholarship in the last 125 years. I use Marks last 12 to show the deliberate attempt by scribes to reinforce a premade theology. Same with John 5:7 scribes created alterations in the text to support and all ready constructed theology. I agree with you there is truthful statements in the canon and noncanonical gospels.

    But Here’s a more fundamental issue. What reasons do you for believing in God via the scripture. Don’t use creationist arguments. You first have blind faith there is a supernatural origin to the Bible.

  • http://www.seanhowell.ca/ Sean Howell

    Doesn’t staph infection mean doo doo?

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    Actually Ugh i am appreciative you took the time to continue this discussion. I want you to ask yourself this question “how could a illiterate bedouin arab (peace be upon him) 1400 years ago know information that biblical scholarship figured out 125 year ago”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Da751v5LSPA

    Even further I want you to ask yourself the same quesiton except for the gospel of thomas which was found by christians in 1945

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2Nae7JN_UI

  • Ugh

    Apparently I do have to “go on”.

    1) “how could a illiterate bedouin arab (peace be upon him) 1400 years ago know information that biblical scholarship figured out 125 year ago”
    A1) Okay, for the sake or argument, the simplest answer is that the Arab in question had access to literature through indirect means (i.e., he learned the contents of the book or parchment from people who could read). It’s practically impossible that he never encountered literature, particularly in the event he engaged with the Judeo-Christian culture.

    A2) As simple and sound response is that there was an unrecorded oral tradition that was lost to history. That oral tradition explicitly stated something that was reconstructed from piecing together inference from recorded and not-lost history, like how you can identify missing parts of a map by the understanding the terrain surrounding it. Hence, someone 1400 years ago knew something that people in the intervening age didn’t, which was then later rediscovered or reconstructed using new discoveries or theories.

    A3) Also: luck.

    2) “I agree with you there is truthful statements in the canon and noncanonical gospels.”
    A) I never said that.

    3) “But Here’s a more fundamental issue. What reasons do you for believing in God via the scripture. Don’t use creationist arguments. You first have blind faith there is a supernatural origin to the Bible.”
    A) I don’t believe in God via the scripture. Nor do I have blind faith in the supernatural origin of the Bible. I’ve never said I believe the Bible has divine origin and you might have to explain to me how you could infer that from my listed premises above.

    4) “IN response to your “could be authentic” – which is BASELESS? BLIND FAITH To justify a FALSE THEOLOGY”
    A) That’s non-sequitur. I also don’t use the phrase ‘could be authentic’.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    1. I’ll debunk the copying claim right now with 1 piece of evidence: http://mquran.org/content/view/9220/ “The historicity of the name Haman provides yet another sharp reminder to those that adhere to the precarious theory that parts of the Qur’an were allegedly copied from the Bible”

    Why do you not believe illiteracy… are Muslims conspiring. I mean all the hadith and isnad support. And even this topic was discussed amongst previous muslim scholars as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34hgGlWovbQ

    2. your “sound theory” doesn’t hold any tangible evidence… it is an attempt to dispute the Supernatural origin of the Holy Qur’an without evidence provide me one chain of evidence

    3. “Luck” so all the other miracles verses in regards to the fingerprint, embryo, rain, mountain pegs, barrier between two waters, roman persian war prediction are “luck”? Prophylactic measure: no copying from galen.

    4. I was unsure if your were amongst the camp of “infallible” readers because you documented contradictions which is unheard of in the evangelical circles.

    5. Lastly, based on the way you describe the Prophet Muhammad Peace Be Upon Him, He Peace Be Upon Him must have been a super polymath of his time. I mean reading all types of languages, communicating with all types of people, and even greater the ability to oral transmit a 600+page text that has been preserved through oral tradition.You’ve pretty much neglected the Prophecies – Minor and Major signs toward the Day of Judgement. You’ve neglected the miracles documented in the Holy Qur’an.

    6. Let me ask you how would explain the Minor prophecy in the hadith of Gabriel that is occurring right now.

    7. usually when i speak with atheist/evangelical/agnostics they like to throw out theories but havent studied enough about Islam to know those theories are as solid as the bones of paget patient.

  • Caboose

    This is not a discussion I wish to partake in.

    My knowledge of both the Bible and the Quran is limited, and therefore should exclude me from the debate.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    arent u curious to know the absolute nature of reality

  • Ugh

    1) You asked me how an illiterate Arab could have come up with things we didn’t know until recently, I offered three plausible (I think) responses. I didn’t sat at any point he wasn’t illiterate.

    2) I made no claim of copying. Where did you get that?

    So, in summary to this point:

    1) You structure your initial statement assuming I’m a fundamentalist Christian, which I’m not and never suggested anywhere that I am. You fail to address this error or restructure your argument when it becomes apparent I’m not.

    2) You ‘agree’ with something I didn’t say – that the Bible has truthful things in it. When I pointed out that I never said that you ignored it.

    3) You claim I said the bible was authentic. I never said that. When I pointed out that I never said that you ignored it.

    4) You claim I’ve implied the Qur’an was copied – I never mentioned the Qur’an until now and made no such claim. (And given my statement above on the power of the Bible irrespective of accuracy or truthfulness or possible forgery, it shouldn’t take too much to infer that I think the same of the Qur’an even if it were copied, so the point should be moot.)

    5) You claim I dispute Muhammad’s illiteracy, which I didn’t, and imply that I claim some Muslim conspiracy, which I don’t.

    Are we done, or do you have more prepared statements on issues I haven’t raised and videos very tangentially related to the argument at hand?

    PS – You probably don’t pass the Turing test, you know. I’d be worried about that if I were you.

  • Ugh

    Thanks for coming by the party to tell us you’re not coming to the party, Caboose.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    I really don’t think you are addressing any point of mine:

    What does this imply ” Okay, for the sake or argument, the simplest answer is that the Arab in question had access to literature through indirect means (i.e., he learned the contents of the book or parchment from people who could read). It’s practically impossible that he never encountered literature, particularly in the event he engaged with the Judeo-Christian culture.”

    Copying? Yes you didn’t state it explicitly but what else is one suppose to make of it. I stated the illiteracy.. you never acknowledged it.

    Are you interested in having a discussion about truth or a debate over semantics. Ad Hominems such as the Turing test is useless.

    The Holy Qur’an and Sunnah provide the absolute nature of the human project. Either you study and critically think now or after death? It’s your choice. The dunya is like a venus fly trap.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    use your brain address me. I have provided you the manual for the absolute nature of reality. the most important discovery in human history for those that take time to critically and objectively examine it.

    lets work together to see if the Holy Qur’an is the Pure Word of the Uncreated Creator

  • D

    http://youtu.be/DwCaZaSon9A

    I found this bad boy one day and I’m not saying it’s the truth but it explains more than bibles or Qur’an it pieces a lot of unexplainable things….. maybe someone just has a wild imagination

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    My big homey D… Evidence- tangible reproducible objective evidence … Holy Qur’an 51:56.. jinn species like human species will be judged on the Day of Judgement… Jinn species to ruqyah is like Oxygen to spectroscopy

    These atheist/secular rants are creative theologies like christianity with low key textual evidence.

    D read wiki hadith of gabriel it proves Angel species exist and that minor sign day of judgement is here look at dubai

  • Ugh

    1. “your “sound theory” doesn’t hold any tangible evidence… it is an attempt to dispute the Supernatural origin of the Holy Qur’an without evidence provide me one chain of evidence”
    A: A sound argument doesn’t require evidence, by definition. It is not an attempt to dispute the Divine origin of the Qur’an. It seems to me you’re inferring is that Muhammad’s illiteracy proves that the revelation on the Night Journey was an unprecedented revelation of the existence and reality of Allah, but that isn’t sequitur. You’re conflating two distinct possibilities. Muhammad may still have been illiterate and known about Judeo-Christian practices. Certainly there were Jews in what is now Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Iran in the 7th Century, there seems little reason to doubt they were in Mecca – the end of the Judeo-Roman war caused a Jewish diaspora, after all. Even if they weren’t in Mecca, he was a merchant – he travelled. Considering the pace that Christianity had moved at until the 7th century it seems improbable that a merchant wouldn’t have experienced some exposure to the Gospels. (And all of this doesn’t even address the total lack of knowledge whatsoever of what the ethnic or religious make-up of Mecca was before Islam. For all anyone knows for sure the entire population, bar Muhammad and his family, was 49% Jewish and 49% Christian.)

    You’re accusing me of heresy, but actually I’m pointing out your argument (as in the one being put forward by you personally here and now, not by Islam, Muhammad or anyone else) is flawed. There’s a difference.

    2) “”Luck” so all the other miracles verses in regards to the
    fingerprint, embryo, rain, mountain pegs, barrier between two waters, roman persian war prediction are “luck”? Prophylactic measure: no copying from galen.”

    A: Not related to your point, which was that Muhammad revealed things in the Qur’an that were discovered by 125 years of hermeneutic study of the Bible. (Or at least that was what I thought we were talking about, but appears what I was talking about and what you were talking about aren’t very related.) My ‘luck’ answer is in response to that and has nothing to do with fingerprints. By the way, can you tell me where that is? I have my Qur’an right here, I can check that. It sounds interesting.

    4) “I was unsure if your were amongst the camp of “infallible”
    readers because you documented contradictions which is unheard of in the evangelical circles.”
    A: I don’t have any idea what you’re trying to say here. I never said I was evangelical or infallible and I have no idea why you’d assume I was either or had claims to be, unless you think someone who debates with you must think they’re infallible…?

    5a) “Lastly, based on the way you describe the Prophet Muhammad Peace Be Upon Him, He Peace Be Upon Him must have been a super polymath of his time. I mean reading all types of languages, communicating with all types of people, and even greater the ability to oral transmit a 600+page text that has been preserved through oral tradition…” (We’ll stop there for a moment.

    A) I never disputed he was illiterate. Not once. I don’t believe he was literate. I never said he must have communicated to all types of people. This is a totally absurd inference.

    5b) “You’ve pretty much neglected the Prophecies – Minor and Major signs toward the Day of Judgement. You’ve neglected the miracles documented in the Holy Qur’an. Burn all the Holy Qur’ans in the world, drown all the Holy Qur’ans with water, BLind all the people in the world. The Holy Qur’an Hafiz (over millions) would be able to reproduce it.

    A) You do realise I’m not debating the truth of the Qur’an at all, right? I never said I didn’t think it was true, and just because I (theoretically, for the sake of argument) disagree with your interpretation of how it came to be you’re claiming I don’t believe it’s real or true.

    6) “Let me ask you how would explain the Minor prophecy in the hadith of Gabriel that is occurring right now.”
    A) This is a blatant rhetorical device designed to distract from points already in play and remaining unresolved. Stick to the existing issues, which at the moment are your hermeneutics and outlandish inferences.

    7) “usually when i speak with atheist/evangelical/agnostics they like to throw out theories but havent studied enough about Islam to know those theories are as solid as the bones of paget patient.”
    A) This is irrelevant. This debate is about your hermeneutics, remember? You aren’t able to refute my points.

    Besides all of this, none of this proves or disproves the truth of Muhammad’s message, the truth of the Bible or the Qur’an or the Torah, or the book of Discordia or anything else. You, however, seem to think you’ve conclusively proven, by posting a video supposedly reinforcing the (already dominant) viewpoint that Muhammad was illiterate that the Qur’an is the truth. Actually, it just reinforces the view that he was illiterate. It seems perfectly plausible to me that he was, I don’t dispute that at all (and I didn’t say at any point he wasn’t – and I already said that above). But you asked how else he could have known those supposed facts, so I answered you with three pretty reasonable (I think) examples. You haven’t been able to refute those examples, you merely suggest I said things I didn’t and that I can’t refute miracles or prophesies, which have nothing to do with it. This is an evasive rhetorical tactic (one used by programmers of Eliza-style bots to avoid being detected in a Turing test, which was my point, and not actually intended as an Ad Hominem). Also, hermeneutics is the study of text, which necessarily involves the study of semantics and syntax, which is the point I initially made that kicked off this debate, so yes, it is actually pertinent and necessary to the discussion.

    If you were interested in a debate on truth you’d address those points raised in my first post directly, retract your inaccurate claims of me saying things I didn’t, and actually discuss something you yourself came up with rather than grasping at the same straws evangelicals of all faiths cling to when someone criticises them (and not their belief).

  • Ugh

    Muhammad provided us with the manual for the absolute nature of reality. A Muslim cannot assume the place of the Prophet.

    I can’t actually believe you said that.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    ok here’s 1 miracle disprove oral presevation of the holy qur’an

  • Ugh

    This isn’t a miracle, this is a Facebook page.
    I’ve not debated the “oral preservation” of the Qur’an, positively or negatively and it’s not related to anything we’re talking about.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    what? the Holy Qur’an and Sunnah provide the absolute nature of reality.

    miracle pharaohs rameses 2nd body Holy Qur’an…facebook pg was error on my part

  • Ugh

    Muhammad provided us with the Qur’an. Saying you provided it is usurping the the place of Muhammad as the prophet, which is heresy to a Muslim. You have bad faith, shabab.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    I now understand what you mean. Lol misunderstanding no the message of the Holy Qur’an is transmitted from Angel Gabriel from the Uncreated Creator.

    That’s why I am been saying it’s the pure Word of the Uncreated.

  • Ugh

    I haven’t been saying otherwise.

    Why exactly did you refer to me as ‘Bradley’ in the Rudy Gay thread?

    I accused you of heresy because you said *you* provided the manual. You didn’t. Muhammad did. You are claiming Muhammad’s role in Islam, which is heresy. How can you have done that inadvertently?

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    I don’t understand. I never claimed anything of the sort. I was giving you the Holy Qur’an and Sunnah to study because they are the Absolute Nature of Reality. the SEAL OF THE PROPHETHOOD PEACE BE UPON THEM IS YOUR AND MY MESSENGER MUHAMMAD PEACE BE UPON HIM WHETHER YOU BELIEVE IN HIM OR NOT.

    But disprove the Ramses 2nd pharoah miracle from the Holy Qur’an. The body is here what does the Holy Qur’an say. Don’t be heedless.

    if your name isn’t bradley, then I was wrong in my guess. Let me try again Melvin.

  • Ugh

    1) “I have provided you the manual for the absolute nature of reality. the
    most important discovery in human history for those that take time to
    critically and objectively examine it.”
    That’s you, saying you provided me with the manual for absolute nature.

    2) Your arrogance is obscene. You aren’t “giving me the Qur’an”. I read the Qur’an, for the first time, nearly twenty years ago. You aren’t the first Muslim I met, though that may shock you. I lived in a Muslim country until three months ago. You need to stop thinking you’re “providing” us with anything at all.

    3) Did you miss the all the arguments I made above? Again, I have never sought to disprove anything in the Qur’an. Asking me to is irrelevant to the argument and a tactic that tries to evade the fact you don’t actually know how to address the criticisms of your methods that I’ve made. Look above. I addressed every point you made, no matter how absurd they were.

    4) Having called me “Bradley” (?!), stated I’ve made claims about authenticity when I haven’t, said I’ve made claims about the ‘truth’ in the Bible that I haven’t, assumed that I’m a fundamentalist Christian when I’m not, denying you’ve said things that are clearly printed on the page in front of us both, committed heresy and denied it, and (surprisingly, last and least) failed to actually argue in any rational and objective way at all, I’m beginning to think you’re having some trouble following all of this.

  • Ugh

    I just watched the first 35 seconds of this video. There is a definitive answer as to how the pyramids of Giza were built, and sitting in on a lecture in a first year archaeology class will give you that answer. It’s not brain surgery, it’s not rocket science, it’s not mysticism. It’s engineering.

  • Ugh

    Oh, so now you’re editing your comments after the fact to disguise your errors? I saw that.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    If i made a mistake i need to correct it. I am human.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    Just for you saying that I am “arrogant” means I have shown poor mannerisms which means I need to conclude the conversation.

    I was joking about the bradley melvin thing had nothing to do wtih fundamentalism. You openly admitting to being GAY so how could you be a fundamental chrisitian.

  • Ugh

    Actually admitting to them seems to elude you, however.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    I don’t understand. I apologize. Here I will provide you a better more clear speaker than myself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOwA0v026wY&list=PL7F4B62A190046A64

  • Ugh

    Possibly reconsidering your idea that everyone on SLAM being interested in your views of Islam and/or that they’re ignorant of Islam wouldn’t go astray either.

    “You openly admitting to being GAY so how could you be a fundamental chrisitian.” So was calling me a ‘fundamentalist Christian’ a ‘joke’, too, or is that a way you admit to being wrong without actually admitting you were wrong?

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    No, most ppl who discuss Islam don’t critically reflect on it or examine it’s information. You haven’t really illustrated why Islam’s source text isn’t the absolute 100% truthful. However, Death will make every human being aware of the reality whether they believe in it or not. –> please don’t take that as arrogance. You’ve read the Holy Qur’an you know what Surah An-Naba says.

    the chronology of events doesn’t suggest what you stated.

    Even initially i never thought you were fundamental i just took that option but later retracted my statemens.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe
  • Ugh

    I am actually informed about Islam. I have actually been to mosques (some of the grandest in the world, actually) in half a dozen countries. I’ve heard the azan five times a day for a year on end. I’ve been to prayer. I have my own copy of the Qur’an given to me as a gift by the Imam of my local mosque. I’ve actually read it.

    I didn’t, and I repeatedly restated that I didn’t when you didn’t get it, say anywhere that I don’t think the Qur’an is anything other than 100% truthful. You just don’t get that. You can’t separate the idea that I could disagree with you AND agree with the Qur’an. You are not the Qur’an. You are not Muhammad. You are not a prophet. You are just a Muslim.

    Country simple: Just because it’s right and you believe it doesn’t mean you understand it. It is not a causal relationship, it is a correlative one. Let me demonstrate:
    P1: The moon is made of rock.
    P2: I think the moon is made of a ball of bumblebees, all holding hands.
    P3: When someone asks me if the moon is made of green cheese, I answer no.
    Conclusion: I am correct in my answer.

    This is you. The Qur’an can be true, you can believe the Qur’an to be true, you can be wrong in why you believe the Qur’an to be true, yet the Qur’an is still true. Get it?

    Repeatedly challenging me to refute or disprove things that I have never said I didn’t believe simply demonstrates that you don’t understand what you don’t understand. Over and over again. Your assumptions about what proves the Qur’an to be correct are false. I’ve proven that. I haven’t proven that the Qur’an is false and haven’t claimed to. You have been unable to understand this simple fact because you see you conflate your own knowledge with the truth of Islam and compare yourself to Muhammad by believing you have brought me the manual for reality.

    This is why I called you arrogant and I’m correct. You need to stop posting on here and visit your Imam and talk to him about that. He’ll tell you the same thing – you’re not the prophet and cannot claim to be like him, that your assumptions on what proves the Qur’an to be true are false, and that you need to humble yourself before Allah.

    We’re done here. Stop making a fool of yourself.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    First off i never called myself a Prophet by definition a MUSLIM believes the FINAL Messenger Peace Be Upon Him is Muhammad ibn Abdullah Peace Be Upon Him. I don’t know how you read that. i never in my wildest imaginations could claim that.

    You claim you know about Islam, then what makes you not accept it. HARD EVIDENCE! What proof do you have Islam is not 100% accurate in its portrayal of the absolute nature of reality in this life and the hereafter.

    PLEASE ADDRESS MY SECOND POINT!

  • Caboose

    AVDTM asked me to participate…

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