• October 10, 2009 8:00 am  |  135 Comments

    Top 50: Chris Bosh, no. 13

    The definitive ranking of the NBA’s best players.

    by Justin Walsh

    There’s not much to say about Chris Bosh that hasn’t been said. He’s from Dallas, he gets no respect for his skill-set and he looks exactly like a dinosaur. So let’s get to braChris Boshss-tacks.

    He is thinking about free-agency. The general consensus in Toronto is that this year is make-or-break for his future in Toronto beyond this season. He wanted a better team.

    GM Bryan Colangelo responds by completely changing the makeup of the roster, fortifying the midrange with athletic, solid forwards. He brings in a score-first guard in Jarrett Jack to bring a change of pace (in contrast to Jose Calderon) on the second team. He pulls a series of wild trades off to get the Turkish Jordan. He signs Bargnani to a long term deal, and then picks up Amir Johnson to bring hustle and athleticism to back him up.

    This team is a series of yin-yang couplings, set for the next 3-5 years. The team looks better than it has in years. They are athletic, with a mixture of youth and veteran wisdom. On one end, you have DeRozan, the epitome of youth in the NBA. He’s charismatic, athletic, probably in over his head at this point. On the other end of the spectrum, you have Rasho Nesterovic- he’s an NBA champion, there to provide locker-room leadership and an example for the young-bucks to follow. Where’s Bosh? Somewhere in the middle, holding it all together.

    …For now. Yes, Bosh noted he’s pleased with how coachable the team is, but there have been no kneejerk reactions to sign that contract with Toronto yet. He’s been there. He’s done that.

    He’s in a unique situation. He can play coy and not answer the contract question without getting the “Hey LeBron, stop being a douche and answer the question,” treatment. Why? Because he’s not a super-star.

    Bosh isn’t a top 5 player in the NBA. He’s one of the best 15 players in the NBA. He’s a franchise player. But he’s not a player that your franchise rides or dies on. Yes, there is a difference. See, Bosh is a player you can anchor your team around, give him max-contract money & expect him to help the community. But you need to put solid players around him to go deep in the playoffs. And you aren’t allergic to hearing trade offers. He’s 22 points, 10 rebounds, great in the locker-room. But he isn’t making Doug Collins sleep with his rookie card next to his bed like he probably does with that mint condition LeBron from Topps. He isn’t going to take over an entire series and give you the worst facial expression ever (Hey Kob’). That’s not a diss. He’s just not the droid you’re looking for.

    Now that we have that cleared up, we move onto the trials and tribulations of being ‘’the guy.’’ Wait, what trials? If the team succeeds, he gets the credit. If they fail, surely that can be pointed to the fact that this team is almost completely new. The cats don’t even look at home in their jersey’s yet (remember how perverse AI in a Piston uni’ was?).

    If he stays, he is anointed a loyal import to Canada, the crowd goes wild. If he leaves, you won’t see the Vince Carter-esque hate upon departure. Even without Bosh in the lineup, the Raptors have such promise in the next few years. Either way, Canada has mad hope for their Raps. Instead of having to worry about the drag of an entire country possibly dogging him all year, he focuses on his game. He puts on 20 pounds of muscle in the past 2 months. He’s gone from string-bean to get-big, ashy-to-classy, etc. What does this all lead to? Money. Max-Contract, G-5, Gordon Gecko quotes, wiping your ass with the Benjamins—the works.

    Chris Bosh is going to get ‘the coin.’ He’s going to get paid an absurd amount of money to play basketball with his next contract. This is the last year Bosh will truly be dying for that cheese. After this, he’ll have that guaranteed contract. Anything after that is just for the game. So this is it. We’re going to see Bosh enter into his prime. He’s going to be better than last season. He’s going to be better than just about every power forward in the game this year. It may not get better than this, so let’s enjoy. Do you doubt Chris Bosh, the career 20 points-10 rebounds-80% from the line PF? Don’t.

    When he was in Dallas, givin’ wreck at tournaments in HS, college scouts were enamored with his skills… but they fashioned him as a 4 year college guy, rotation player in the League. He was in the League after one campaign for Georgia Tech. When he entered the League, analysts questioned his ability to play in the post with his sleight frame. His career scoring average is 20 points per. 10 rebounds per. Now cats are questioning if he can make the next step & take a team deep in the playoffs. More doubters. We never learn.

    Notes
    • Rankings are based solely on projected ‘09-10 performance.
    • Contributors to this list include: Jake Appleman, Brett Ballantini, Russ Bengtson, Toney Blare, Shannon Booher, Myles Brown, Franklyn Calle, Gregory Dole, Emry DowningHall, Jonathan Evans, Adam Fleischer, Jeff Fox, Sherman Johnson, Aaron Kaplowitz, John Krolik, Holly MacKenzie, Ryne Nelson, Chris O’Leary, Ben Osborne, Alan Paul, Susan Price, Sam Rubenstein, Khalid Salaam, Kye Stephenson, Adam Sweeney, Vincent Thomas, Tzvi Twersky, Justin Walsh, Joey Whelan, Eric Woodyard, and Nima Zarrabi.
    • Want more of the SLAMonline Top 50? Check out the archive.

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    • james Posted: Oct.10 at 8:02 am
      first ah he looks SO much like a dinosaur i thought i was the only person in the world that got it

    • Lucas Posted: Oct.10 at 8:27 am
      Perfect placement right here, hopefully he can stay consistent.

    • PANAGIOTIS VASILOPOULOS Posted: Oct.10 at 8:34 am
      third best big man in the world (behind Pau).

    • PANAGIOTIS VASILOPOULOS Posted: Oct.10 at 8:52 am
      just 15 years ago(1995) the 6 best big men in the NBA where: 1)Hakeem 2)Robinson 3)Shaq 4)Ewing 5)Zo 6)Divac. At this moment we have :1-2)Dirk or Pau 3)Yao(if healthy) 4)Bosh 5-6)Duncan or Garnett (just because they are aged) . The fact that the best U.S. big man at the moment wouldn’t even enter the discussion of the top-5 U.S. big men in the NBA of just 15 years ago is ,to me, as socking as the fact that the top-3 are not American.At the same time it is quite beneficial to the rest of the world that has exploited the weak&short U.S. frontcourts for the past decade.

    • josh Posted: Oct.10 at 9:04 am
      I wonder how many times “not as good as Pau” comes up in the comment section lol.

    • Vikturus Posted: Oct.10 at 9:20 am
      Anyone who saw Bosh tear it up in the olympics know that he’s the real deal.

    • dutch Rob Posted: Oct.10 at 9:40 am
      yeah but KG makes Gasol cry when they play
      Pau is good but KG , TD and Bosh are better

    • Hakeem Posted: Oct.10 at 9:50 am
      Hakeem Olajuwon is nigerian - that kind of makes your point moot.

    • Gerard Himself Posted: Oct.10 at 10:11 am
      It has been reported Bosh got stronger this off-season. Look at his neck; it used be all giraffe-like, but now looks…. well, more fitting I suppose? Anyway, I expect big things from Bosh this season.

    • JJ Posted: Oct.10 at 10:23 am
      GREAT ARTICLE. WELL WRITTEN AND THOUGHT OUT. I completely agree with him being a franchise player…. but not one who makes or breaks a team. As a raptors fan, I’ll be disappointed if he leaves but I have no doubt that we have the pieces to get another solid pickup in his absence and move forward in the right direction.

    • 702 Posted: Oct.10 at 10:37 am
      said it before say it again chrisbosh:toronto::paugasol:memphis

    • Niya-girl-fresh Posted: Oct.10 at 10:44 am
      Uh……………..**shrugs shoulders**

    • cb 34 Posted: Oct.10 at 11:14 am
      Never been a fan of bosh. A bit too soft for my taste. Has that little jumper and will put up those numbers yearly but never get close. He shouldn’t even be this high. If he’s here just because of his numbers then z-bo is just as deserving. He’ll have that long career, be a star and in 20 years forgotten just like big dog, lj etc…

    • Royal Posted: Oct.10 at 11:35 am
      Cb 34- How are Big dog and LJ forgotten about when you just mentioned them?

    • tavoris Posted: Oct.10 at 11:44 am
      How can you say a player that may not play again (Yao) is one of the best big men in the world RIGHT NOW? Also, 3 of the big men you named in ‘95 weren’t American. Not only Olajuwon, who is from Nigeria, but also Ewing, who is from Jamaica.

    • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Oct.10 at 11:54 am
      It looks like Bosh has bulked up quite a bit. Probably 15 pounds of muscle.

    • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Oct.10 at 11:54 am
      Nice job, Justin!

    • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Oct.10 at 11:56 am
      Yao > Pau when healthy.
      Dirk I won’t judge, because he really isn’t that much of a post player anyways, as good as he is.

    • $tev3 Posted: Oct.10 at 11:59 am
      Its either NY or Miami for him

    • Bombaclatt Posted: Oct.10 at 12:01 pm
      I’m from Toronto, I’m a huge Raptor’s fan, but I never was a big fan of Bosh, I have grown to appreciate what he does for us night in night out, and love to watch him play, but I totally agree with the article, in how he is top 15 in the league not top 5. he was thrown into the franchise role a little to early, i don’t think he was truly ready for it till he came back from the Olympics. I’m looking forward to see him take over this year along with Bargnani, and Calderon who both should have breakout seasons if all stay healthy! (knock on hardwood) With the addition of Turkgoglu and the added bench players especially Wright, Weems and Johnson, we are going to have a damn solid team. can’t forget our rookie DeMar DeRozan, I’m expecting big tings from him in his future! the next Air Canada!!

    • rog123 Posted: Oct.10 at 12:01 pm
      Bosh plays with a great style, but I don’t really know if he is good enough to ever lead a team. He would benefit tremendously to play alongside a good center. Like biedrins, big z, perkins, okafor, lopez or someone like that

    • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Oct.10 at 12:02 pm
      Pau Gasol is kind of overrated now that he helped LA win a chip. He’s never averaged over 10 rebounds a game (which isn’t actually bad, because he’s had 8-9), something that people seem to ignore. Yet Amare Stoudemire gets grilled for it. Hmm…
      Also, Tim Duncan is still better than Pau. Yao when healthy is better than Pau. How can you not have Dwight top 5 big men? With Yao out he’s clearly the best center right now.

    • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Oct.10 at 12:06 pm
      Also @ tavoris:
      He specified Yao when healthy. Yao is definitely going to play after this-coming season. Plus, he was never a speed player or a leaper, and his height won’t diminish, and his skills will come as he plays more, so I still see him as one of the best big men in the league.
      And Patrick Ewing and Hakeem Olajuwon ARE American. Just because they were born in other countries doesn’t mean they aren’t American. Its called immigration… Actually, no people from America even originally come from the land if you trace their lineage, unless you’re Native American. Just saying.

    • Yesse Posted: Oct.10 at 12:38 pm
      Lol i cant wait when this list is finished and laugh at it.Bosh is pretty much in the right place, but looking at other great and bad players positions they are ridicilous.

    • tavoris Posted: Oct.10 at 12:41 pm
      Teddy, I agree, but dude was trying to make a point…and his logic was flawed. His comparison was intended to show how the international-born players have surpassed the American players. Yao isn’t a “best player in the moment”, because he’s not playing in the moment-or in the forseeable future. Also, Sabonis was better than Divac at that stage.

    • cb 34 Posted: Oct.10 at 12:46 pm
      @ royal: Of course big dog and lj are forgotten and what i mean by that is they will just be lost in the books years from now just like tim thomas will be. These guys more than had decent careers but people will hardly remember them 2 decades from now. I’m talking about the public in general and not the hoop junkies you see on this site.Bosh will be like that and it’s not a bad thing just kinda sad actually.

    • cb 34 Posted: Oct.10 at 12:50 pm
      @ tavoris: I’d just like to add that sabonis is the best foreign born center apart from hakeem to ever play the game. We got robbed of the real sabonis because of him coming to the league so late and those dang injuries. The best passing center to ever play the game. Ever! That’s not even debatable.

    • PANAGIOTIS VASILOPOULOS Posted: Oct.10 at 12:51 pm
      @Vikturus…..: yeap. Since Duncan and KG are 80% (at best) of what they were at their peak, Bosh is now the best complete(offence-defence) big man U.S. bball has to offer. In the Olympics his complete game made him the most depandable answer the U.S. had to offer to the rest of the world. The fact that he was schooled by Pau (and that he is going to get schooled again in Turkey next September) does not take anything at all from him. Pau (and Dirk) are simply better. Robinson&Ewing were schooled again&again by Akeem. That doesn’t mean that the distance between them and “the dream” is chaotic. Akeem was just a little bit better. Same with Bosh and the top-2 big men in the world at the moment.

    • PANAGIOTIS VASILOPOULOS Posted: Oct.10 at 1:04 pm
      I won’t even mention super-guffy in a discussion of the best big men in the world (at least not top-5). The fact that Pau toyed with him, i repeat T-O-Y-E-D with him, in last years final AND at this years games with Orlando showed once again that it is one thing to have great numbers in a run & jump marathon(NBA regular season) and another thing to produce in the biggest stage in the world when EVERY POSITION matters and when ,in order to make a single basket, you must be a true-complete BASKETBALL player not just a great ATHLETE. Something like what happened last year between Kobe and Lebron when the former took all big shots in the final when the Spaniards seemed to gain control. Now, of course you choose Lebron over Kobe and Howard over Pau for the NBA regular season but everybody (ok, i mean NBA coaches etc. not video gamers) knows who is the best.

    • Michael Posted: Oct.10 at 1:07 pm
      no way in hell is Bosh better than pau.

    • Shem Posted: Oct.10 at 1:11 pm
      Yao Ming is out this season and it hasnt even started so we wont see Yao play for another year and a half. He also missed most of the playoffs last year. Yao hasnt played a full season in 3 years, he missed last years playoffs and hes missing all of next year. So how can we possibly say that he is the BEST big man in the world. Hes good but not the best. Bosh is better then Pau but not by much. Bosh produces more then Pau, and he also produced more then Pau when Pau was on a bad team. I think that Bosh is better then Pau but not by much..

    • PANAGIOTIS VASILOPOULOS Posted: Oct.10 at 1:13 pm
      @cb 34: 1988-89 Sabonis (just two years, then he remained without legs, Sabonis was really athletic when young) might be the greatest center to ever play the game. Think about a 7-3 Larry Bird. Sometimes i think that he got hurt cause he was to good for the world basketball to handle. Think about a 7-3 Larry Bird. (i know it doesn’t make sence)

    • Z Posted: Oct.10 at 1:16 pm
      Bosh IS better than Pau. Make them switch teams and LA still wins the title and Raps still suck. Cmon people, unless you’re LeBron Kobe or D-Wade TD CP3 Dwight you can’t shine on your own.

    • SLAM'sFAN Posted: Oct.10 at 1:24 pm
      looks more like Predator,lol

    • cb 34 Posted: Oct.10 at 1:24 pm
      @ z: That’s a little presumptuous. If you put bosh with la i don’t think they would have won at all. Pau is perfect for the triangle because he’s a superb passer and he has a more polished inside game. He has left hooks, right hooks, jumpers from anywhere around 18 and can go either way. Bosh only goes left and he doesn’t even use his right hand on most nights. that’s crazy talk. Bosh holds the ball too long and i don’t think he would have meshed with kobe at all. Pau and kob have real chemistry and that’s hard to find and i don’t think bosh’s skills are even close to pau’s. The numbers don’t say it all. Cmon z..

    • K.a. Posted: Oct.10 at 1:28 pm
      I think bosh progressed better as the man on his team than pau would have if he stayed in Memphis. I think pau is better right now because he has the comfort of not having pressure being the man in LA and his experience with playing with Kobe n coached by phil. Defensively both pau n bosh are about the same, they have length but aren’t physically intimidating but pau has the benefit of having an actual back to basket game. Also for some reason most American players dong utilize that flat foot layup around the basket, thats really such an efficient move. Only guy who does it Jefferson, somebody like mchale used to do it. I think its basically post footwork.

    • Royal Posted: Oct.10 at 1:30 pm
      @cb 34- Yeah I agree, Chris Bosh is good,but he is def. not on Timmy’s or K.G’s level (but who ever expected that he would?)

    • K.a. Posted: Oct.10 at 1:31 pm
      Hehe I said dong

    • christian wells Posted: Oct.10 at 1:40 pm
      BOSH bein 13 is good,howevr the pau gasol ranking is wrong,again isn’t this list about production this season.r u guys goin off wins or indiviual stats,if so lower ranked plyrs will hv bigger seasons

    • jdn41 Posted: Oct.10 at 1:43 pm
      bosh is sick wicked and nasty, oh man do i miss swirsky

    • whalleywhat Posted: Oct.10 at 1:46 pm
      Gonna be a big season for Bosh. Watch out.

    • pitofloro Posted: Oct.10 at 1:48 pm
      hay muchos mejores que bosh. o por lo menos muchos que han hecho mejor temporada. saludos desde españa

    • Bombaclatt Posted: Oct.10 at 2:23 pm
      break out the salami and cheese B***hes!!

    • tavoris Posted: Oct.10 at 2:24 pm
      considering Bosh is the #1 option on the Raps, where Pau wavers between the 2nd to fourth option, is it pretty safe to rank bosh ahead of Pau? Their differences are negligible at best, so the larger role HAS to play a part in the ranking. Pau didn’t toy with Dwight, the Lakers as a whole TOYED with the Magic. Kobe>the Magic supporting cast. And in spite of that, the Magic were still only two blown substitutions by SVG of winning it all.

    • tavoris Posted: Oct.10 at 2:27 pm
      Pau IS NOT the best big in the game until he stops cowering to Duncan. Duncan STILL has him playing like a rookie. Duncan STILL is the best offensive & defensive big man in the league. If Pau was the best, Andrew Bynum’s development would be an afterthought.

    • tavoris Posted: Oct.10 at 2:27 pm
      Pau is great, but Kobe is also better in the post than he is.

    • Bruno Posted: Oct.10 at 2:29 pm
      I’d take every name in the list until now before bosh
      this guy sucks

    • Double J Posted: Oct.10 at 2:33 pm
      I say, let’s no longer have a list that “predicts” Next year SLAM should go back to it’s bread and butter, the best in the NBA simple and plain.

    • gangster Posted: Oct.10 at 2:36 pm
      So far I think SLAM has done a tremendous job with the rankings. There are 12 players left to go and i’d put them in the following order: (12)brandon roy (11)kevin durant (10)dirk diggler (9)d will (8)carmelo anthony (7)kg (6)duncan (5) fake superman (4)cp3 (3)dwade (2)kobe (1)king james

    • Matt H Posted: Oct.10 at 2:45 pm
      kevin durant is NOT better than chris bosh yet

    • T Money Posted: Oct.10 at 2:58 pm
      This was a great write up.

    • Afonso Posted: Oct.10 at 3:05 pm
      @greek fella: I know americans tend to overate their own and underate overseas players but DWIGHT HOWARD is one of the best IF NOT THE BEST BIG FELLA IN THE WORLD…If I had to pick one for my BLAZERS it would be D12…I know he cant shoot but the fact is he changes the hole freakin game defensivly and without post moves still scores A LOT!!!dont be like them PANAGIOTIS, Yao is excelent offensivly as much as Dwight is EXCELENT on Defense! and D12 manages to score 20something a game without great offensive moves, imagine if he got post moves…Bosh is in a fair place but should be Gasol and Bosh 14

    • PANAGIOTIS VASILOPOULOS Posted: Oct.10 at 3:19 pm
      @Afonso…..:i would also take Howard for the Blazers.It doesn’t matter anyway,you ain’t winning a chip with Roy as your first option (and although Pau is much better than Roy he would never be given the keys of the team), at list you can go for a spectacular regular season (like the Blazers of the past were doing also).

    • PANAGIOTIS VASILOPOULOS Posted: Oct.10 at 3:22 pm
      @Afonso….:to sum it up:Pau ,Manu, Parker etc are better if you need to win the big games, Howard, A.I., Arenas, B.Davis etc are better if you need to get stats for your fantasy league.

    • Jukai Posted: Oct.10 at 4:30 pm
      Spanny: Wouldn’t you take Howard over Pau and Manu and Parker just for the sheer FACT that if Howard added some post moves and a decent go-to jump shot inside the paint, he’d be literally the best bigman in the game right now? I mean, he gets 20-14 in the most physical league in the world with ease, and he’s still 23. I fully acknowledge Pau owned him hardcore… but wouldn’t you take Howard to build your team around?

    • Jukai Posted: Oct.10 at 4:31 pm
      Also, Bill Walton was the best passing bigman ever. Better than Sabonis. Play with it (sorry DP).

    • Justin Walsh Posted: Oct.10 at 5:02 pm
      Jukai, I dig that line. People, thanks for the comments. Greek guy: I get the point you’re trying to make, but you make this same kind of point in EVERY single comment section. If I did a post about Kirby’s dreamland, you’d probably tell me that Drazen Petrovic had a better floating kick than Kirby. (for the record, Drazen was one of my favorite players ever, regardless of country)

    • PANAGIOTIS VASILOPOULOS Posted: Oct.10 at 5:08 pm
      @Jukai…..: ’strange’ how you use the word “fact”(with capitals!!) to start talking about an “if” situation….if i was in the mood(or you were one of my favorite geniouses) i would have made big fun of this….I am pretty sure 90% that Dwight will never develop a serious offensive arsenal just like i was sure 90% ,at the beggining of his career, that Shaq will never develop a consistent shooting stroke (a little secret to all kids around the world: Shaq, Wilt, “Big Sofo”, Howard etc cannot shoot the ball from 4 metres, it is not just the free throws. Again: NONE OF THEM CAN SHOOT THE BALL CORRECT, I-T I-S N-O-T JUST THE FREE THROWS !!!!).There are reasons for this that ,at least some of them ,you should be able to figure out. I am just telling you that Gasol and Divac(two guys i followed from 16 years old) had most of their offensive arsenal developed by the age of 19. Now, i would take him to build my NBA TEAM around him (regular season wins&stats & highlight dunks=vast appeal to the average fun=$$$$$ and the NBA is business by definition) but i wouldn’t take him to build my national team around him(best bball players=wins=world number 1 in the game). I would prefer for my “national” team: PG’S: DERON&CALDERON SG’S:KOBE&MANU SF’S:DURANT& SISKAUSKAS PF: DIRK&DUNKAN C’s: GASOL&PEKOVIC with DIAMANTIDIS as the fifth guard and Lebron as the fifth forward (Duncan can also play center and Pekovic is anyway a beast).This is also the best team our planet can compile to challenge another planet on basketball(as stupid as it sounds!!).

    • PANAGIOTIS VASILOPOULOS Posted: Oct.10 at 5:10 pm
      @Jukai…..:also, you’ve never saw SABONIS like you’ve never seen KUKOC so i will understand whatever you write.

    • PANAGIOTIS VASILOPOULOS Posted: Oct.10 at 5:12 pm
      @JUSTIN…..:what is kibry cream land?

    • PANAGIOTIS VASILOPOULOS Posted: Oct.10 at 5:15 pm
      @Justin…..:i agree.it’s just that someone 2500 years ago (a famous greek guy,you know…) said that “repetition is the mother of learning” (’epanalipsis mitir mathisews’ in greek )

    • Jukai Posted: Oct.10 at 5:18 pm
      Spanny: Actually, Wilt Chamberlain had a relatively consistent jump shot from 10 feet and a fade-away that went in just about as much as Duncan’s. At one point in Chamberlain’s career, his coach asked Stilt to shoot a fade-away at the free throw line, to see if it would go in… but Chamberlain didn’t want to draw even MORE attention to his abysmal free throw shooting. He fully admitted he was a headcase and didn’t know why he couldn’t shoot a set free throw when he could hit the shot in the game.
      So, you know, you’re 100% wrong.

    • Justin Walsh Posted: Oct.10 at 5:19 pm
      Panagiotis, it’s an AWESOME game from the NES days. Also known as the Nintendo Famicom. And I’ve seen games from Kukoc and Sabonis BEFORE dudes were in the league, they were far better then. Sabonis came into the league with horrible knees and his back was shot. Still played his damn game. Before his body was gone, dude was a force. But again, I still think you’d mention this stuff in comments of stuff that has nothing to do with it! But it’s endearing.

    • Jukai Posted: Oct.10 at 5:22 pm
      Also, I’ve actually taken the time to watch old Sabonis games (found some decent footage).
      In fairness, I’ve never watched Kukoc play in Europe. HOWEVER, since he came into the NBA -IN HIS PRIME- and -NEVER AVERAGED OVER 20 POINTS- I’m going to say he would not make my top-whatever. It’s one thing to say Sabonis never really had a chance (he didn’t… he came into the league in his 30s and by then he had bad leg injuries) but it’s hard to argue we never saw “prime” Kukoc since he played for the Bulls since he was 24.
      Not to say the dude was bad, The Waiter was ballin’– 18, 7, and 5 is all-star stats. But don’t feed me no “best player ever” nonsense.
      BUT THAT’S ALL DIGRESSION REALLY— how many Bill Walton games have you watched?
      Bill Walton pre-injury would school Sabonis so damn hard. Of course, a young cat like you would never understand NBA basketball, you grow up around all this flashy fast jump shooting FIBA basketball… so, yeah, I don’t expect you to understand!

    • Jukai Posted: Oct.10 at 5:26 pm
      I’m not bad mouthing Sabonis though– easily a top 10 center ever, along with Stilt, Cap, Ropes, Dream, Diesel, Admiral, Modine, The Hoya Destroya, and Big Bill.
      And yes, I know I’m going to get crap from a Knicks fan for not adding Reed. So sue me.

    • Justin Walsh Posted: Oct.10 at 5:27 pm
      Juk, give him the ol’ one-two. Dang. Get em got em good. Phew. Pan, waiting for your comeback

    • Jukai Posted: Oct.10 at 5:29 pm
      Also, I’m going to say you have some valid points about Howard.. but if the dude did call up Hakeem or McHale and learned some sick post moves, UNSTOPPABLE.
      Plus, you know, the whole Defensive Player of the Year and 14 rebounds a game and all.
      I mean, you’re big on defense— isn’t the difference in offense between Gasol and Dwight just as big as the gap between rebounding and defense that Howard has over Gasol?

    • PANAGIOTIS VASILOPOULOS Posted: Oct.10 at 5:29 pm
      @Jukai…..:yeap , i am 100% wrong. (I just hope you don’t put any money on Howard developing any serious offensive arsenal at 25 years old….i don’t wish you go broke. Hope we are both here after 6 years to see who had it right. )
      @justin…..: thanks.

    • Justin Walsh Posted: Oct.10 at 5:32 pm
      Juk & Pan: Dwight has one offensive move, and it’s sad. Defensively, he can dunk. But his defense against a center with good footwork is not as great as cats talk about. He got DPOY because he’s good at help-side blocks during half-court defense and he blocks just about any layup a guard puts in front of him. Dwight, I have never been THAT into.

    • Jukai Posted: Oct.10 at 5:34 pm
      Spanny: Of course I wouldn’t put money on it. I’m not stupid.
      I still would draft him over Gasol due to age and defensive superiority.

    • PANAGIOTIS VASILOPOULOS Posted: Oct.10 at 5:42 pm
      @Jukai……..:Krauze wanted to give up Scottie in his prime for what he saw in Europe from Kukoc in 1989-1992. I would (maybe) trade the best SF of all-time(if you have M.J on yout team) if i had found a 6-11 Magic Johnson with a perfect three point shoot. Now, was Kukoc all this….?? Those who saw him at that period (maybe) know…(and Jerry Krauze!!!)

    • Justin Walsh Posted: Oct.10 at 5:44 pm
      Pan, now we’re just talking crazy talk

    • wassup Posted: Oct.10 at 5:55 pm
      bosh is better then pau.Those two play a game of one on one bosh eats em for breakfast.

    • Shem Posted: Oct.10 at 6:09 pm
      PANAGIOTIS is very bias, i bed he d take pavlovic over kobe and bosh is better then pau, easily. Bosh is one of few big men that average 20 and 10 ohh and pau isnt one of those few.

    • PANAGIOTIS VASILOPOULOS Posted: Oct.10 at 6:24 pm
      (This might be the most crazy-stupid-whatever comment i’ve ever written)
      @Jukai….: so you won’t put money on it cause you ain’t stupid waiting howard to develop an offensive game(correct) BUT at the same time i am 100%…it’s ok. I thank you both of the fact that you reminded me the game of Tony Kukoc. I will give you a list of the most complete players of all-time(completely subjective) based on what i saw and i have understood about guys before 1980. by complete i mean: at least very good on both offence& deffence, good outside shooting, really good size-athletisism for their position, leadership abilities,winning tittles.
      1)Jordan 2)magic(not great shooting but everything else phenomenal) 3) Kukoc 4)Bird (i thought about leaving him out for athletic reasons but check my Magic comment) 5)Wilt(i just thing that he could do whatever he wanted ) 6)KOBE 7)Isiah 8)West 9)Pippen 10)Penny(no titles but…) 11)Hakeem 12)Galis (i told you this is as subjective as it gets but he was that complete). That list doesn’t mean that i would take penny over Hakeem to build my national team(Hakeem&Sabonis are better players, penny is just more complete). ….Barely missing the cut: Manu, Webber, Oscar(not much of a shooter, inexcusable for a guard unless you are named Magic),Sabonis(not great ball handler, to lead a break for example).

    • Justin Walsh Posted: Oct.10 at 6:29 pm
      aaaaaaaaaaaaand Pan just lost his marbles. Hold on Pan, I’ll get Rufio, we’ll find your marbles. That’s a Hook reference. So clever

    • PANAGIOTIS VASILOPOULOS Posted: Oct.10 at 6:34 pm
      i won’t argue on my previous completely subjective comment.
      @shem….:i think that i am biased many times.
      @Justin..:NOW we are talking crazy talk…(at least i gave it my best shot)

    • PANAGIOTIS VASILOPOULOS Posted: Oct.10 at 6:47 pm
      @Justin…..:you propably right, i am starting losing it, i need a good sleep….(i really enjoyed constracting my crazy list though, so many images of bball excelence running through my mind, Kukoc playing all five positions on the 1991 final against Barca, Magic on game 6, Wilt running in Kansas, Pippen stopping by himself a 4 on 1 Jazz attack at 1997 finals in Chicago, Penny on game one of the 1996 eastern conference finals,Bird passing the ball,Hakeem making an effortless three to put the cherry to the championship,Webber running the break for the fab-five,Manu diving to save………).
      Good night to everybody and thanks. (I’ll answer everything related tomorrow.)

    • Anton Posted: Oct.10 at 7:54 pm
      izzle

    • Lazarus Posted: Oct.10 at 8:32 pm
      He’s going to have a top 5 season this year, claim. 25 and 12 and raps win 50+ games. claim claim claim.

    • Jukai Posted: Oct.10 at 8:47 pm
      Pan: Okay, so explain to me why the fourth best player in the world played like a fringe all-star (it was a travesty he was never an all-star but the Bulls were so stacked, and Euros weren’t heavily favored) in the NBA? Is the NBA THAT much different than FIBA baskeball that someone can be the fourth best player of al time in the worlds but be nothing in the NBA, or was Kukoc’s best years 18-24 and once he turned 24, he had a massive drop in skill? He came to the NBA at his prime, dude! C’mon now…

    • chingy Posted: Oct.10 at 9:05 pm
      Dinobosh!

    • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Oct.10 at 10:01 pm
      K.a is a dumbsh!t.
      Haha I said dumbsh!t.
      Haha he is an actual dumbsh!t.

    • K.a. Posted: Oct.10 at 11:45 pm
      WTF dude? Justin made this comments btw. I lold. He’s so endearing.

    • Pardeep Posted: Oct.11 at 2:30 am
      Bosh is soo hungry right now. Watch out for the Raps they very well may just grab the 3rd seed. Bosh is averaging 25 ppg next year and is going to get serious MVP consideration if the Raps win. But they are going to have to make the Eastern Finals or else Bosh and D-Wade=2011 Champs. I mean where would you rather live for the same amount of money Toronto or Miami?

    • niQ Posted: Oct.11 at 2:42 am
      lol i’m on a roll. i knew bosh would be next.

    • Jukai Posted: Oct.11 at 2:58 am
      I’m waiting for Spanny’s answer. Saying Kukoc was the fourth best player ever is as dumb as me saying Dwight Howard is better than Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Hardcore.

    • KH10 Posted: Oct.11 at 3:00 am
      MUSCLEWATCH!! never been a fan of this guy, but he does put up decent numbers, shame about the hair too, that look is totally 1995.

    • [...] Chris Bosh comes in at No. 13 on Slam Online’s list of the NBA’s Best 50 Players. That sounded a little high when I first saw it, then I listed [...]

    • PANAGIOTIS VASILOPOULOS Posted: Oct.11 at 3:15 am
      @Jukai…..:i remember seeing Kukoc for the first time after he got in the states and i honestly could not believe what happened to his body. He seemed to be a “fat” person (compared to what he was all his life in Europe). From a spider-like point-guard (he was thinner than Durant all his life) he became in one summer a small forward with a belly !!! of course he could still pass the ball like a magician he just had lost his speed-explosiveness-flexibility(i remember it like it is “NOW” that i felt that somebody ‘killed’ Kukoc during the summer of 93′, i had seen him in may in Euroleague and after 5 months he had became a ‘baloon’…) This dramatic body change ,combined with the fact that nobody would give him the keys of a team to run it like Magic in the NBA at that time, led him to be a complimentary player. Kukoc didn’t have the “crazy/killer” of a character that Drazen had…he simply choosed to change his style of game and feel good with what they were allowing him to be. At the same time somebody can say that Kukoc could not exist in the NBA of the early 90’s being so thin. They are right since they never had in mind to play him as a 6-11 version of Penny that he was….it is true that in the NBA of that period (with the Knicks of the time being the main opponent for the Bulls) he could not play at forward and this is what the Bulls wanted-needed(Mason & Oakley would have injured him just by touching him). Again: Kukoc BEFORE 93′was a 6-11 version of Penny (SAME explosiveness, with better D, passing insticts and leadreship qualities).

    • PANAGIOTIS VASILOPOULOS Posted: Oct.11 at 3:21 am
      @Jukai…..:forget about Kukoc, you will never get it and you are 100% excused for this. Being unable to see why you cannot mention Howard in the same discussion with GASOL&DIRK is what you are not excused for….or to be more exact: you are excused just 20%,since i give you the ‘allowance’(i don’t know how to say it) of growing up in an environment full of videogames,fantasy leagues,shoe commercials etc…

    • PANAGIOTIS VASILOPOULOS Posted: Oct.11 at 3:41 am
      @jukai….:i’ll give you a link for you to see how his body was in his prime.

    • PANAGIOTIS VASILOPOULOS Posted: Oct.11 at 3:41 am
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRFNAZP4nmg

    • K.a. Posted: Oct.11 at 3:50 am
      everybody knows euro players are garbage. They can’t even dunk in game. Some of them even still take set shots. One time I saw a euroleague game and thought i was watching the wnba.

    • PANAGIOTIS VASILOPOULOS Posted: Oct.11 at 3:58 am
      @K.a…..:__________.(yeap,that’s my kids!!!!!)

    • cb 34 Posted: Oct.11 at 4:42 am
      @ jukai: You’re totally wrong about walton being the best passing center. Inaccurate. He’s just on divac’s level. Sabonis had unreal court vision. He made passes that only guards would do. His passing was something else.

    • Jukai Posted: Oct.11 at 5:16 am
      CB: I typed up a long post, but it never showed, so…. I respectfully disagree. Obviously I haven’t seen a LOT of Sabonis, but Walton’s passing when he was 30+ far exceeded Sabonis’ passing. And they both had terrible knees. I may be wrong, who knows, my opinion is that Walton is the best passing bigman ever. I obviously never watched either to the extent that others have.
      Spanny: Kukoc was pretty thin when he first got to the bulls:
      http://www.interbasket.net/players/kukoc.jpg
      http://www.zonade3.com.ar/fotos/tonykukocg.jpg
      Also, Kukoc was a vastly underrated passer (the fact that he could average five assists with very little control over the ball was impressive, to say the least) but I think by comparing him to Magic, you’re just elevating one of your heroes from childhood. I don’t think anyone really thinks Kukoc passed like Magic.

    • PANAGIOTIS VASILOPOULOS Posted: Oct.11 at 7:11 am
      @cb 34….: i like your distinction between Divac and Sabonis, i know it is accurate. I don’t know about Walton, i haven’t seen him play.

    • PANAGIOTIS VASILOPOULOS Posted: Oct.11 at 8:19 am
      tonight we (OLYMPIAKOS) play against Lebron and Shaq. Yesterday’s game against the Spurs couldn’t get us any SLAM coverage (i gave a brief cover and highlight links at the GASOL post) either because there where too many foreigners involved(Olympiakos and the 2 best Spurs at the moment Manu&Parker…) or because everybody is sleeping here during weekend….I hope Lebron’s & Shaq’s “kindergarden marketing power” will get us some coverage tonight….BIG SOFO against SHAQ means the current against the former strongest bball player in the world…interesting.

    • davidR Posted: Oct.11 at 8:28 am
      can slam do a ranking of the best/most stacked teams to NOT win a title in the past 20 years? ie. the sabonis/wallace/pippen blazers, the pacers, the kings, etc.

    • radioraheen Posted: Oct.11 at 9:03 am
      yes Pau is a great player but I wonder if people would be riding his wood had he not ever been giving (lol) to the Lakers! I guess that is what exposure will do for you! ie D. Granger or a R. Gay type of player

    • PANAGIOTIS VASILOPOULOS Posted: Oct.11 at 9:14 am
      @davidR….:easily the Kings no-1.

    • radioraheen Posted: Oct.11 at 9:20 am
      @Panagiotis, that Blazer team was pretty stacked maybe a 1 and 1a

    • Jukai Posted: Oct.11 at 5:03 pm
      Spanny: Can ‘Big Sofo’ play in an environment with three second rules and less flopping calls?

    • TADOne Posted: Oct.11 at 5:43 pm
      These comment sections keep getting worse. Damn shame. As for Bosh, i’m indifferent about Bosh. He is good, I just don’t think he is a top 15 player. Just not that type of impact player, IMO.

    • Justin Walsh Posted: Oct.11 at 5:51 pm
      TAD, what’s good long time no talk

    • PANAGIOTIS VASILOPOULOS Posted: Oct.11 at 6:11 pm
      @Jukai…..:i generally believe that BIG SOFO will be more effective in the states than in Europe. He has a big problem with flopping here since 95% of those guarding him under the basket constantly flope(they got no other chance of stopping him, what happened in the bronze medal game in Poland had not been observed since SHAQ’S prime, people were literally hanging by him and he managed to make 7/9 FG’s with 6 of them being “AND-1″ cases !!!) in hope of getting a call and they usually suceed, especially when we are visitors to other big european teams. European game is tougher than the NBA one and, although guys in the NBA are stronger than those in Europe, they ain’t hitting guys the way they do here(sometimes even really dirty). What i am afraid of with SOFO is that the guy is very sensitive mentally and very easy to “lose his path”. A clever kid(chess champion in high school) that cannot handle his nerves-impulses. The last 3 years he has played bball just a few months though he didn’t have any injury at all. He lost the whole 2007 year cause of weight problems(he broke the 440lb barrier for a moment and he is just 6-9) and he was send for two months in Switcherland in a special institute for weight loss (although the rumor all over greece is that he was send there to get rid of co…ine addiction). I think there is a good chance the people there will love him( a hip-hop maniac , very big&strong, etc). A Clippers squad in 2011 with Baron, Gordon, Lebron, Sofo, Camby and Thordon&Griffin&Camby on the bench is instant championship on (fantasy league) paper and definitely better of what Lebron has in Cleveland or anywhere else!!!

    • PANAGIOTIS VASILOPOULOS Posted: Oct.11 at 6:17 pm
      @Tadone…..:is getting worse cause geniouses like you ain’t honoring us with their bball wisdom….

    • TADOne Posted: Oct.11 at 6:27 pm
      Nothing but the bills, Justin.

    • Jukai Posted: Oct.11 at 6:49 pm
      Spanny: I think you’re a closet Lebron fan. Or as he develops defense and a jumper, you just like him more and more?

    • jdn41 Posted: Oct.11 at 7:23 pm
      kobe is obviously going number 1 with lebron 2 and d wade 3 i dont see how anyone can argue that

    • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Oct.11 at 8:31 pm
      1. Kobe
      2. LeBron
      3. Wade or Paul.

    • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Oct.11 at 8:32 pm
      @ davidR: Actually, that’s a really good idea. You should add the 90’s Knicks to that list too.

    • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Oct.11 at 8:35 pm
      And the Sonics. Who else? The Jazz, The Clyde Drexler/Adelman Blazers, Run TMC…

    • Jukai Posted: Oct.11 at 8:39 pm
      Well, I’d argue that Lebron should be number 1, considering this list is based on how well a superstar is going to perform next season.. since Kobe is going to be sharing the load with Artest, Gasol, and Odom, and Lebron only has an aging Shaq… as well as Lebron reaching his prime and Kobe leaving it… but yeah, Kobe got a ring, so it’s SLAM’s duty to embellish the truth.

    • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Oct.11 at 8:39 pm
      Also, for the people saying Chris Bosh isn’t apt to lead a team, what exactly do you all mean? Leading a team can happen in many different ways; you don’t have to score 30 points a game and hit gamewinning buzzerbeaters to be a successful franchise player. For example: Kevin Garnett is the leader for the Boston Celtics, but Paul Pierce is the go-to scorer and Ray Allen is the man to take the last shot.

    • Justin Walsh Posted: Oct.11 at 8:56 pm
      oh Juk’y mcJukster. You know me, I prefer Kobe to Bron. But who knows if that’s what THE LIST says. Or even what MY list says. *villanous laugh*. You got a 50/50 chance.

    • DFIELDS Posted: Oct.11 at 9:49 pm
      Man kobe better be number one…if not…there something wrong!!kobe just won his 4th ring…and put 32.4ppg…7.5assits…5.5rebs this past finals…and that hasnt been done since jordan and jerry west….lebron had a nice postseason run…but failed at the end…and everybody and the damn media was picking lebron to take it all…it was just alot of dickriding…kobe prevailed at the end…while putting up 30.2ppg…5.6rebs and 5.5assits the whole entire postseason..while taking it all…kobe is the man…he better be num 1 on slam..just like the past three year he was num 1 on slam

    • Pardeep Posted: Oct.12 at 2:51 am
      You gotta be crazy to think SLAM is not going to rank LeBron 1st. Kobe might even be 3rd. Kobe in my opinion is the best in the world he can do it when he wants against who he wants. But next year Kobe can win the championship averaging 22 ppg because he has so much talent around him. LeBron and D-Wade have to do way more work and this leads to way better stats. LeBron is getting ranked 1st and do not be surprised if D-wade is 2nd.

    • Jukai Posted: Oct.12 at 3:02 am
      Yo Justin, I ain’t saying Lebron’s overall better than Kobe– I’m still disappointed my boy didn’t pull through (who CARES if he had to go one on five?).
      But if this ranking is about projected performances, and Kobe has Gasol/Odom/Artest (all who made it on the list– one in the top twenty) and Lebron only has Shaq, wouldn’t Lebron simply be higher because of greater output?
      Also, I’d say Wade needs to be second, but I know you’d lambaste me for that.

    • slamfanatic Posted: Oct.12 at 3:33 am
      @ pan: ur retarded pippen for kukoc wouldve been the worst decision in bball history. Close trading pau for nothing (aka kwame brown)
      What are u gonna tell me next? Craig ehlo > michael jordan. Whatever ur smoking u should sell to the masses. At least then you’d be a rich retard

    • slamfanatic Posted: Oct.12 at 3:36 am
      @ jukai: u speak the truth. Nuff said

    • rikson Posted: Oct.12 at 4:02 am
      How can you say sabonis was a better passer than divac?! I saw both play (in the NBA), and thats just WRONG!

    • rikson Posted: Oct.12 at 4:03 am
      @Jukai Should Wade be first then?! Because you know…. he has jermaine.

    • Jukai Posted: Oct.12 at 4:04 am
      Rikson: because, uh, it’s true… Sabonis was freaking 32 when he got into the NBA. Especially for someone so big and mobile, you can’t put yourself into the position to make all those passes anymore…

    • K.a. Posted: Oct.12 at 4:05 am
      there’s a simple reason why slam will put bron as number 1 regardless of kobes new ring: contract year. The end.

    • rikson Posted: Oct.12 at 4:07 am
      Well Divac was definetly more mobile than savidas - at least in the NBA! As I mentioned Im not talking about their careers before the NBA, as I didnt saw them play then. Plus Divac was an outstanding passer - especially on sacramento… cant say that about savidas though! I remember Arvidas as a big strong center, who wasnt really able to dominate the boards because of his injuries, and had a very good jumpshot - even from three!

    • Jukai Posted: Oct.12 at 4:09 am
      Rikson: I would not be upset if Wade was first. Personally, had Wade not played so awfully at the end of the season (probably due to pure exhaustion.. how many overtime games was he playing?) he may have deserved the MVP over Lebron.
      I think what would keep Wade down is the fact that he wont make it very far in the playoffs with the team he has… which seems sort of counterintuitive, since Kobe having people around him gets him farther into the playoffs… but them the way it works, and don’t let anyone tell you differently.

    • Jukai Posted: Oct.12 at 4:16 am
      Damn dude, stop posting before I get a chance to respond to your previous thought!
      On Sabonis, yeah, if we’re talking NBA only, Divac was a superior passer. I remember Vlade averaging 5-something passes in his thirties– insane!
      But if we’re talking overall, ask anyone… Arvydas was a great passer, and unfortunately, thanks to the USSR and their ability to execute all of his family if he played for the NBA any earlier, we’ll never know how well he’d play against the greats.
      I will note though, at 31 and hampered by serious injuries, the dude averaged 23.6 points and 10.2 rebounds in his rookie post season… crazy!

    • cb 34 Posted: Oct.12 at 5:23 am
      @ rikson: Divac was an exceptional passer but nothing like sabonis even in his thirties. Too bad you can’t see clips but some passes he was pulling out of his a$$ that even the recepients were surprised. It’s not even debatable that sabonis was the best passing big man ever. It’s not a matter of opinion really so stop pushing divac okay?

    • PANAGIOTIS VASILOPOULOS Posted: Oct.12 at 5:39 am
      I ‘ ve never seen Wilt but Sabonis is the most freakish/crazy/scary thing i saw on a bball court,even more than M.J…(of course that DOES NOT mean he ever became anything near what M.J became)….At 1988 he was dunking in the face of the Admiral and blocking his shots 40cm over the rim(there are youtube links for some of this)and some years later in the final of Euroleague (REAL-OLYMPIAKOS ) he was killing our team by shooting three pointers(not just an occasional 3, he was taking our center at the three point line and playing like a shooting guard. Not with shooting guards’ speed but a shooting guard style. Just like Nowitski)!!!! When i saw this it was the first time that i thought that actually it was better for this guy that he remained without legs (BOTH achiles cut,zero leaping ability after the age of 24…). Simply put: Dirk became one of the best in the world and a match-up nightmare at 7-0 and a match-up nightmare, what would have happened to the world of bball if we had a Dirk at 7-3 (fact), much more athletic (fact) and better passer(fact)…? Wouldn’t it be scary/crazy….??? We better leave it here, i usually don’t want to talk about Sabonis cause if you want to be fair with him you instantly became hilarious for somebody that didn’t saw him from 88-90……(i remember seeing Sabonis running as 7-0 teenager in the early 80’s, he was moving like a 6-2 guard, that is when he earned the nickname “miracle of nature” that followed him all his life in Europe. Remember there were no Kevin Garnnet’s in the early 80’s nowhere in the world…)

    • davidR Posted: Oct.12 at 6:20 am
      (in the voice of odb) divac is good, but, sabonis is the best.

    • PANAGIOTIS VASILOPOULOS Posted: Oct.12 at 6:32 am
      @davidR….:if your nickname has any relationship with the Admiral then you have every right to say so (Sabas completele destroyed Admiral in the semi-final of 1988)!!!!!

    • rikson Posted: Oct.12 at 9:41 am
      @jukai Well as I said, unfortunatly I havent seen any footage of him before his NBA days… Divac had I think up to 3 years in SAC with 4 and above assist per game. Dont know how much you saw of him, but he had the whole arsenal from bounce-passes to behind the back….
      @Cb34 What a useless post! No arghuments what so ever - just opinion! And at the end you just tell me your opinion is right ?! Has to be a joke…. Just for your information, Im not pushing divac, thats just how I see it! And the 2 things I remember Sarbnis for, is his physik (he was just a coloss -> rebounding) and his exceptional abili9ty to shoot the ball! I guess he was pretty much hyped back then, as he was really the first center (and the only one back then) to shoot threes…. As far as rookie-post-season stats… Does the name Matt Malony ring a bell?!

    • K.a. Posted: Oct.12 at 10:19 am
      did you guys know both divac n sabonis had their best passing season under adelman. Run wit it

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